The Syndicate

Good luck! Win the game for me, townies!

Do NOT immediately vote when Jovian gladiates me.

We will be doing this in popcorn order, starting with the scummiest players and ending with the towniest players. This is so that scummy players are forced to make a decision, and can't just sheep the towniest players or whatever wagon looks like it'll win. Towny players are PSI, char, Jack (I doubt a town killing role burns him there, so probably he was marked for death by a scum role), Carotte. Lower level towny players are cayvie, DDL, Fatmo. People like dov and cass are the most widely suspected and should go first. If you don't like this assessment of the towniness/scumminess of players feel free to discuss and come to some kind of consensus for order.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:54 pm I don't actually have bad associatives with UG. I attacked char because the way she tried to cast suspicion on UG was pretty bad. You can see that as a defense of UG if you want; I see it as an attack on char. I had a townread on UG and made that clear, and that's it. I think trying to play off "oh, Alison defended a wolf and pushed a town means she's wolf" is ridiculous when we're essentially in D2. There's no way you believe that townies are never wrong that early in the game.

But the biggest out here is that you haven't already gladiated. You didn't use your gladiator ability when instructor last day phase, and you didn't use it now. There is absolutely no reason not to have already popped it against me if this is what your genuine views are as town. A town Jovian would be drooling at the thought of gladiating me and forcing scum to pick between me and you, and then outing them all when you flip town. You need the person you're thunderdoming to tell you to gladiate her before doing it lol

Also you've addressed like none of the points people have made about you. People brought up a bunch of stuff, like the fact that nutella (flipped town) knows you really well and is 100% convinced you're naked wolf. Or the immediate 1000 word wall dumped right after day breaks that sounded super specific and read like it was written during the night. Or the fact that you ghosted the thread and went into full anti spew when it looked like you were going to die yesterday.

All you've done is come into the thread, point at the person who's accusing you the most, and gone "this person had a townread on UG that one time!"

I think Carotte/DDL is a V/V quarrel tbh.

I don't actually have bad associatives with UG. I attacked char because the way she tried to cast suspicion on UG was pretty bad. You can see that as a defense of UG if you want; I see it as an attack on char. I had a townread on UG and made that clear, and that's it. I think trying to play off "oh, Alison defended a wolf and pushed a town means she's wolf" is ridiculous when we're essentially in D2. There's no way you believe that townies are never wrong that early in the game.

But the biggest out here is that you haven't already gladiated. You didn't use your gladiator ability when instructor last day phase, and you didn't use it now. There is absolutely no reason not to have already popped it against me if this is what your genuine views are as town. A town Jovian would be drooling at the thought of gladiating me and forcing scum to pick between me and you, and then outing them all when you flip town. You need the person you're thunderdoming to tell you to gladiate her before doing it lol

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:14 pm Alison been consistently working to push wolf agenda all game. Her push for a town / town gladiate is absurdly brazen but I have a feeling Alison would do it, and there's also the added evidence Cayvie and Char brought up that she has pretty bad associatives with UG. I don't buy the WIFOM that she wouldn't leave a partner off of a list as a wolf. Maybe it's an intentional ploy to look good, cuz I think the alternate world where she just forgot someone off of her readslist is unlikely. She's hard defended wolves and hard pushed town. That just makes her a wolf imo.

Gladiate me then, and we'll see who's the wolf between us. If you're town, you should be happy to do it.

Also why did Jack not die? Was he healed?

cayvie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:43 am
Ultimate-Gamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:57 am Cassowary: Town. Like I said before, this might be a hot take, but Cassowary's reactions to being pushed to NOT feel like panicked scum trying to play it cool. they feel like a frustrated townie who doesn't know what to say so they're trying to defend themselves while also simultaneously trying to solve the game. It's a good response and I like it a lot. I really REALLY feel like this was a good, easy yeet for potential scum to latch onto.
IMO this post all but spews Cass clean. like this defense sounds like U-G trying to "hot take" read a fairly widely suspected townie as town, in order to try to pocket them.

Can you talk to me a little more about why you believe that this can't be wolves talking to each other? I can see this as a more townread wolf trying to save a struggling buddy.

Fatmo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:55 am I'm likely staying on Marcher if he's still a wagon tomorrow btw. I saw most of the towniest people just kind of start realizing he might be scummy simultaneously in what felt like a holistic and organic way, and his reactions seemed more likely to come from scum.

Yeah and this post proves it. Everyone else is getting distracted and Fatmo comes in and keeps us all on track on the Jovian wagon. Fatmo and Jovian are never partners here.

I'm townreading Fatmo. The massive opening post was slightly townie, and the way they hopped onto the Jiwon wagon was pretty good. "Hey, I think Jiwon is scum. I play like this as scum too. And everyone else voting Jiwon is someone I townread. I like where this is going". No hedging, no attempt to take responsibility away from himself when Jiwon flips green. Just comes in and says "yes, this is the wagon" and goes on it without hesitation.

The other thing about Fatmo is that I think there's a difference check between him and Jovian. He sheeps nutella onto Jovian and doesn't back off. Jovian also tries to push him when the attempts to attack nutella/PSI went nowhere, and this was behavior that was called out by nutella. I find it hard to believe that Fatmo and Jovian are buddies together.

So, I'm up again. I still think [VOTE: Marcher Jovian] aubergine is the correct play here, as they have the highest wolf equity. The day was interrupted by a modkill, but the way they were acting prior to that modkill read to me like scum who had given up. They didn't even bother using their gladiator power which I think they would if they were town. The way they approached that day was to enter the day dumping a huge load of self-meta that sounded pre-written during the night to argue why they aren't scum. Then when people question this argument they sort of see where the wind blows, avoid spewing anyone and give only NAI responses (their role claim and their response to me asking how their role works). It reads to me like scum who knows they're done for. The specificity, length and "un-asked-for"ness of the huge self-meta thing makes me think it was constructed during the night specifically to try to get her out of this situation. nutella also had a very strong wolfread on her, and not only are nutella's reads good in general, but nutella has specific experience/meta with Jovian and was very very sure that Jovian was scum.

I don't think this flip makes me distrust DDL. I don't see scum DDL having a strong incentive to push for a sudden flash wagon on a townie (Neutron) when there's another townie on the chopping block (Jiwon). If you argue to me that he was trying to save his teammate Cass I would tell you that he could just push Jiwon. Maybe he was trying to let Jiwon live so that Jiwon can be the mis-exe the next day, but that would surely be curtailed by the massive heat he'd draw on himself by aggressively flash wagoning onto town.

Hey all, just writing this post to let you know that I've read the roleflips and some of the ensuing discussion, but I'm in three games at once, and I also have real life stuff to deal with, so I'm probably going to address this fully after I catch some sleep. The short summary is that these flips make Jovian look slightly better and chardonnay and PSI look a lot better, but I'm still not convinced that it makes DDL scum.

Ah, I see the issue. I am falsely representing a non-absolute inference as an absolute one. That is, suppose we flip Neutron scum. Then we have to assume that MJ is scum who is defending him. The possibility of MJ being town who was thunderdomed by nutella and defending a wolf is just too low for us to do anything but execute her. But this is technically a supposition or judgement of probabilities, and not a strict logical inference, which I wrongly phrased it as.

So it's better to say that I don't think that Neutron is scum logically implies MJ is scum. Rather, I think that the revelation of Neutron being scum would make MJ the correct execute in almost all worlds. But, the same doesn't apply the other way around, because if we know that MJ is town, we are more obliged to seriously consider the coincidence where MJ really was just a townie who had some extreme bad luck in terms of reads and pushes. And the reason we have to consider that coincidence more in scenario 2 than in scenario 1, is because in scenario 2 we already know that MJ is a townie!

My premise is that if Neutron is scum, then MJ is definitely scum. This is because of the way MJ defended Neutron. But if MJ is confirmed to be town, then Neutron can also be scum who was wrongly defended.

If MJ flips town, why are we automatically clearing Neutron?

[mention]Marcher Jovian[/mention], use your ability on DJ Neutron or you will be treated as outed wolf.

Jack, I'll note your legacy read on Char.

chardonnay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:14 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:13 am
Wilgy, Marcher's pronouns are listed as "they/them". And it's really not a good look for you to come in and be asked about the top scum suspect and be like "I have no idea who you're talking about".
Is Wilgy not registering Marcher's existence to the point he didn't realize they were here indictive of scum tho?

Espesaliy if Marcher flips scum today, they would've had to cross paths in scum chat. I guess he could be lying scum (rly weird lie). Or just super apathic.

-/-/-/-

@Carotenoid

Both DoV, and Marcher, having the same thoughts w/ regards to PSI & Nutella is a really good point! Also thanks for the response.

chardonnay, in the context of what I just said about forcing mafia to make difficult decisions, it is a scummy move. Pretending not to know about Jovian is a way of deflecting responsibility here - a pre-emptive excuse to justify whatever decision he chooses to make after the gladiator power is used.

Look at it from the opposite angle. Why does Wilgy make that post if he is town? The game isn't particularly hard to catch up, and he already knows Jovian is a top scumread and person of interest. Is it really hard to skim the last few pages to get a sense of why they are scum? There has been very little spam or wallposting, so it should take a few minutes at most. What townie is so detached from the gamestate that they aren't willing to invest a few minutes to understand why someone has rocketed up to top scum?

That's why the post looks scummy to me. It's setting up a really sketchy excuse, in a way that doesn't make any sense to me if Wilgy is town.

chardonnay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:56 am It also means that technically Jack could still be mafia. Not that it matters as he is resolved when he dies from the burn.

A town aligned poisoner, what a funny thing to play with. Really weakens the doc this game imo. Doc saves a mafia aligned burn victim, and that victim is plausibly cleared haha. WIFOM city

Giving town KP more than makes up for it.

Wilgy, Marcher's pronouns are listed as "they/them". And it's really not a good look for you to come in and be asked about the top scum suspect and be like "I have no idea who you're talking about".

In any case, it seems clear to me that you are not going to make good use of your ability outside of the case I specified earlier. Therefore, unless anyone has a compelling argument why we should not, I will ask you to use your ability on DJ Neutron.

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:05 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:52 am Oh, that sucks. If roles weren't alignment-blind I would have asked Jovian to gladiator Neutron. Actually, maybe Jovian should gladiator Neutron anyway. If they're W/W then obviously the result is great (you can only vote wolves, so a wolf will definitely die!) and if they're V/W then the wolves have to make a very very difficult choice (and probably even if we exe the villager, the wolf gets outed by difference check).
I do not see the point of this plan

You and Neutron have the most scum equity. I find it difficult to imagine that you're both villagers. Therefore, I will have you gladiate Neutron. If one of you is a villager and the other is a wolf, then the wolves are forced to make a rather difficult choice. If they support their teammate, then they will have heavy suspicion cast on them when the flip happens. But if they support the villager, then their teammate is doomed to die. Either result is quite good in my book. By gladiating Neutron, you remove the possibility of wolves being able to hide on vanity wagons and such to "stay flexible" until they can decide who it is more convenient to support.

By narrowing down the field to two participants, we can also do the popcorn style voting system where we ask the scummiest players in the game to vote first followed by the next-second scummiest, with the towniest players voting last. This means that the choice is even more difficult because they have to vote blindly without knowing how the rest of the town is going to vote.

Oh, that sucks. If roles weren't alignment-blind I would have asked Jovian to gladiator Neutron. Actually, maybe Jovian should gladiator Neutron anyway. If they're W/W then obviously the result is great (you can only vote wolves, so a wolf will definitely die!) and if they're V/W then the wolves have to make a very very difficult choice (and probably even if we exe the villager, the wolf gets outed by difference check).

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:16 pm Claiming Suki, one-shot gladiator. Once per game, at least 15 minutes before eod, I can choose a player. Any votes not on me or that player do not count for the purpose of elimination.

If you gladiate someone, will it be announced, or clearly indicated in any way (eg. nanook clearly telling us that any votes not on you or X will not be counted)? Check with nanook if you're unsure.

Neutron can be town or scum if Jovian is scum. I could see Jovian's actions towards Neutron as either whiteknighting a player they know is town, or defending a scumbuddy. But I can't see Jovian as anything but scum if Neutron is scum. It is too coincidental to me to see a player subbing into a scumread slot, thunderdoming the doctor and then protecting a flipped wolf as anything other than naked scum.

Therefore I gave some thought to whether it's game-theoretically correct to execute Neutron before Jovian if we think Neutron has independently high scum equity, as a red flip from Neutron will give us greater confidence in our Jovian wagon. On the other hand, unless something changes, Jovian is going to be a leading wagon regardless of Neutron's alignment, so it's unclear to me if the extra certainty is worth anything.

I eventually decided that we're probably going to exe Jovian D3 regardless of Neutron's flip, so we should just vote them first because they have independently higher scum equity. The speed and specificity of their "I would never do this as wolf" defense also bugged me a little bit - it felt sort of forced out, like it was prepared in scumchat beforehand and peddled to us the moment nutella flipped.

So yeah, I'm still aboard the Jovian wagon today.

linki: I think if scum's focus was on killing people they couldn't exe, they would have killed me N1. Either nutella slipped as doctor and we all missed it except a mafia member, or scum felt especially threatened by her reads. This is why I think the nutella kill most strongly implicates Jovian.

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:30 pm Like in this situation, I'd just kill cayvie and watch her shout from dvc as I pull off the exact same trick all over again.

Also I want to point out that I don't actually believe this is true and it sounds like something you made up to support your narrative. On a purely mechanical level, it makes more sense to kill me and cayvie, because I'm being townread a lot more than cayvie and cayvie isn't particularly dangerous to your stated "what I'd do if I was scum here" plan.

The other issue here, I think, is that if you were scum you'd have teammates. Your plan is long and detailed, but it's also very specific and based on your specific experience in Pyre Mafia. It is not out of the question, to me, that you may have proposed such a thing in mafia chat, and your teammates shot it down or outvoted you because they felt too threatened by nutella's ability to get you executed the next day, perhaps even telling you to bring that narrative up as a reason why you would never make the nutella kill.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:00 pm Don't trust me that much I'm not that good at reading people.

Like, trust my intentions but have your own reads too.

I thought cass felt weird yesterday and I still do. I just disliked some people who voted for her yesterday more.

In any case, unless DJ and Jovian can provide better explanations for their actions that what they have so far, I'll be voting for one of them.

Read my post again - I'm not saying your read is correct, I'm saying you're town and therefore your wagon is not an attempt to lead town away from cassowary.

Whoever scumreads PSI still, air your concerns now. I have a strong townread on them and so did nutella iirc. One of us is consensus town and the other is a flipped doctor. So unless you think we're both awful at reading people, you should lend weight to those opinions.

I think I'm upgrading cassowary to scumlean territory, from naked scum territory. They've had a very unimpressive ISO, but as PSI correctly points out, there's no strong case against them (as opposed to the much stronger cases against Neutron and Jovian). They also seem like a very lonely player right now. If they are scum, where is the counterwagon attempt from their teammates? I trust DDL so I don't think the Neutron wagon is a distraction from catching scum!Cassowary, and since nutella is a flipped doctor I obviously don't think poorly of the Jovian wagon either.

The thing about the Jovian wagon is that they're an albatross hanging around their neck. We cannot let that slot live to ExLo. If they're scum we should execute them way before ExLo, and if they're town, it's going to be too hard to make the right call with them hanging around. Frankly, if they're town, they have to accept that they're not long for this world one way or another.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:11 pm Lol, good shade Cass.

As if that's my main contribution.

Hi Wilgy. Thoughts on Marcher?

Hm, actually I remember LC reacting like this to JJJ suspicion of him in Jack Attack. He might not be scum.

Jovian, I appreciate the effort, but "I did the opposite thing and it worked during Pyre" does not clear you for killing the person who scumread you the most strongly lol

Alright, kill LC after resolving the Jovian/nutella difference check. He doesn't act like this when he has suspicion wrongly cast on him as town. He tries to show he's town, and gives up if he doesn't succeed. He doesn't lash out at people and openwolf like this.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:29 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:28 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:06 pm Me not having done enough is NAI, and you vastly overstate the level of awfulness in my vote yesterday, because, though it was a throwaway vote, it was 100% acceptable in the situation.
It doesn't matter if it's NAI, it's a reason you're in the POE.

Justify your vote to me.
I did that when I cast it.

"I don't have a preference between Jiwon and Cass" is not a reason to naked vote someone who had 0% chance of being exed last day phase and then leave the vote on before vanishing. Are you afraid to get caught with your vote on a townie?

Just caught up to the nutella/Jovian stuff. I think there's a high chance those two slots are V/W, and I would start by exeing Jovian first.

Sorry for the brief/sporadic posts, I'm actually supposed to be doing game night right now and am sneaking off to post in the game.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:06 pm Me not having done enough is NAI, and you vastly overstate the level of awfulness in my vote yesterday, because, though it was a throwaway vote, it was 100% acceptable in the situation.

It doesn't matter if it's NAI, it's a reason you're in the POE.

Justify your vote to me.

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:31 am
PSINightmareEmpower wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:17 pm Ugh. Neither of the alternate viable wagons look good to me, but I know U-G isn't popular enough to go through right now. I have to switch, but I don't know to whom.

Jiwon isn't doing anything for me. I'm all right with it, but not personally sold on it. Clearing out the inactives is important though, so maybe I should?

I can't vote Cass in good conscience. I haven't done enough research on them to confidently place a vote. It's just a sheep read I'd do as mafia so I can't vote them until I've done my research, and I don't have time to do research before EoD.

...

...

...Jiwon it is.

[VOTE: JiwonMeganPark] aubergine

Fatmo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:43 pm Ahh ok.

[VOTE: JIWAN] aubergine

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:05 pm Welp this is exciting

[VOTE: jiwon] aubergine
Hey i found cass's teammates

Oh, you think Cass is scum. Why does mafia jump onto the counterwagon on their own teammate when they can just sheep the one on Jiwon?

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:00 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:38 am Here's where I am in terms of reads at the moment. The list of people in each category is not ordered. Consider this my legacy reads if I should die during the night phase.

Hard Town - These are the people who've done something to make me actively trust them.
Alison
PSINightmareEmpower
Carotenoid
Dragon D. Luffy

Townlean
cayvie
DrWilgy
Fatmo
Long Con
nutella

Mixed Bag
chardonnay

Scumlean
Jackofhearts2005
Marcher Jovian

Scum
cassowary
DJ Neutron Star
dov
I don’t think cass / DJ neutron star are ever w/w with the way that flash wagons went down.
The neutron wagon was an even split with 2 from jiwon and 2 from cass, unless mafia were playing hyperreckless bussing games I don’t think that happens if w/w.
I’m thinking it’s more likely mafia jumped onto the cass counterwagon for cred when it looked like jiwon was certain to go over, and took the flash wagon as a chance to get off when things started looking risky. Think that points to cayvie as the teammate?

This suggests that you think cass/Neutron are V/V. Why?

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:38 am Here's where I am in terms of reads at the moment. The list of people in each category is not ordered. Consider this my legacy reads if I should die during the night phase.

Hard Town - These are the people who've done something to make me actively trust them.
Alison
PSINightmareEmpower
Carotenoid
Dragon D. Luffy

Townlean
cayvie
DrWilgy
Fatmo
Long Con
nutella

Mixed Bag
chardonnay

Scumlean
Jackofhearts2005
Marcher Jovian

Scum
cassowary
DJ Neutron Star
dov

I think move LC one category down, from townlean to scumlean. He hasn't done enough and nutella is right that a vanity wagon so close to EOD looks awful.

I don't like that dov came in and placed a naked vote on someone that later flipped town, had very implausible reasoning for justifying it (there is no way in hell that someone who's played ToS previous to this legitimately trusts Carotte because she got them into the game), and then scumtells a bunch in their defense.

DJ Neutron Star was someone who didn't ping me at all D1, but did quite a bit N1. The general shyness by various players around his wagon looks bad (Marcher was already suspected to some degree for this, but I'm giving them a pass because I didn't care much about Neutron myself D1), and the defense N1 was unimpressive.

I would consider those two to be the leading wagon contenders for D2. I'm not a fan of chardonnay trying to buy time for dov by claiming the slot self-resolves. I'm not convinced that's true, especially if dov just keeps on lowposting and appealing to newbieness the entire game.

I am reasonably confident in my towncore. I think there's like an 80-90% chance there's legitimately 0 wolves in it and you can trust them completely.

Here's where I am in terms of reads at the moment. The list of people in each category is not ordered. Consider this my legacy reads if I should die during the night phase.

Hard Town - These are the people who've done something to make me actively trust them.
Alison
PSINightmareEmpower
Carotenoid
Dragon D. Luffy

Townlean
cayvie
DrWilgy
Fatmo
Long Con
nutella

Mixed Bag
chardonnay

Scumlean
Jackofhearts2005
Marcher Jovian

Scum
cassowary
DJ Neutron Star
dov

dov wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:02 am
cayvie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:48 am
dov wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:26 am why is everyone assuming i'm scumlean
how do I deem myself worthy for y'all
talk to us

talk me thru your thought process, how you decided to vote when you did.

how much of the thread have you read? does anything stick out to you?
when I voted, I kind of just wanted to go towards a majority because in all honesty, I just saw people talking about jiwon as i scrolled through and i saw carotenoid voted for him, and i seem to trust her decision even though i'm not realizing that she might be scum
i haven't read all of the thread, however, the things that do stick out to me is that there is a slow mentality conforming with everyone, but i feel as if nutella and psi might be scumlean since they're kinda auto-clearing each other as town and assimilating their ideas to one another while leading most of the thread as "town"
kinda sus about that, but i genuinely don't know lmao

Weird justification (we saw no indication that dov trusted Carotte before now) accompanied by a hedge.

Throwing shade on people that have done objectively townie things accompanied by a hedge.

dov is scum.

Imagine having to waste a post in a post-capped game because you fucked up the formatting.

dov wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:02 am
cayvie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:48 am
dov wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:26 am why is everyone assuming i'm scumlean
how do I deem myself worthy for y'all
talk to us

talk me thru your thought process, how you decided to vote when you did.

how much of the thread have you read? does anything stick out to you?
when I voted, I kind of just wanted to go towards a majority because in all honesty, I just saw people talking about jiwon as i scrolled through and i saw carotenoid voted for him, and i seem to trust her decision even though i'm not realizing that she might be scum[/pink]
i haven't read all of the thread, however, the things that do stick out to me is that there is a slow mentality conforming with everyone, but i feel as if nutella and psi might be scumlean since they're kinda auto-clearing each other as town and assimilating their ideas to one another while leading most of the thread as "town"[/color=pink]
kinda sus about that, but i genuinely don't know lmao

Weird justification (we saw no indication that dov trusted Carotte before now) accompanied by a hedge.

Throwing shade on people that have done objectively townie things accompanied by a hedge.

dov is scum.

dov wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:26 am why is everyone assuming i'm scumlean
how do I deem myself worthy for y'all

wow this is a bad post

cayvie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:43 pm it's my guess that exactly one of cass/djns is mafia, and that--if this is the case--at least one of mj and dov is mafia.

I think this kind of extremely specific read without any given reasoning is probably townie from cayvie. I wouldn't gamble the game on it but mafia usually give specific reads in order to push an agenda and this seems more like a townie trying to puzzle things out than mafia pushing some narrative. It also helps that I agree with some of it.

I like DDL for the Neutron wagon, and despite not liking nutella's reach I think it's within her town range and the way she eagerly hopped on Neutron wagon and followed DDL was a good look. I won't give nutella full town trusted status yet, but she and cayvie solidly remain in townlean category because of it.

jack is going down a tier for doing nothing D1 after a good start. I've had a low level townread on most everything Fatmo says but nothing that makes me want to lock them, so I'll give them the bottom of my townlean category.

I had some reason to townread Marcher Jovian but I can't remember what it is and going over their ISO doesn't jog my memory so I'm just going to assume that if I can't remember it then it's not important. They can go in the scumlean pile for taking over an inactive slot and then doing nothing to make me townread them.

linki: DDL, I trust you and I like that theory. dov goes into the scumpile.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:22 pm dov may have been coached by a scumchat too

Can you talk about this to me a little bit?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:56 pm love how LC left a lone vote that doesn't matter before going afk (((::::

Yeah, I'm downgrading LC to scumlean because of this.

I went ahead a bit in my catchup to peek at the Jiwon flip. The townflip is unfortunate, but I'm not kicking myself for a bad read - Jiwon played in a scummy way and got flipped for it. Sometimes it's town doing that, but they really gave me nothing to help me find them with. On the other hand DDL looks good off the flip. Scum have no reason to try hard to start a counterwagon in that position, and my judgement is that it was a genuine attempt at counterwagoning because he believed Neutron was a wolf, not an attempt to create empty space to hide on so he would have his hands clean of a town exe.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:47 pm
cayvie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:47 pm i was getting dadv vibes from the jiwon wagon, and things have gotten way more lively since i switched.
idk i don't really believe in dadv anymore, I feel like I've seen runaways hit scum a lot more often recently

I've never believed in DADV. It just doesn't match up with my experiences. Dead air means that the players in the thread have resigned themseleves to this being the course of action to take. It could be the thread convinced that the wagon target is mafia and the actual mafia letting them, or it could be the thread nailing a mafia member and all their buddies resigning themselves to bus.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:25 pm
Carotenoid wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:16 pm oh I realized EoD is at 3 EDT, I might not be able to be around

I still don't feel very good about DDL's posting, would definitely vote here if it picked up. I'm also interested in the reasons some people are townreading him (?)

I don't think UG is a good vote today because their tone is well within town range and he's going to be much more readable soon I think.

Between cassowary and Jiwon I think I'd prefer a Jiwon flip but *eh*

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:38 am [VOTE: Jiwon] aubergine

Hmn I realized that I might not be able to be around for EoD :/
Anyway. I think my preferred flip is Jiwon. Would be okay with cassowary, DDL or DJ too. Don't want to flip cayvie or UG.
Uh. The repeated wording of "oh just realized I might not be around" is super weird to me. How do you "just realize" something twice? Did you forget you had already realized it? Perhaps you thought you had only already said it somewhere other than the game thread??

I don't believe you legitimately believe in this reach.

Jack, why are you not voting? Do you always do this as town?

Jack, place your vote.

I don't always play the drill sergeant role but if you know me at all you know I will do whatever I think makes town win and it's clear that the town needs some cohesion right now so here I am.

You see those categories in my readslist? Every day that goes by without people doing something to earn my trust, they fall down another category in the readslist. You should think about the game this way as well. If the inactives continue to hard slank D2, I will start pushing them. At this stage, with the game being this stagnant, it is the responsibility of genuine townies to step up, show their alignment and start to push the game out of stale waters and into wolf-hunting momentum. This is what I have been trying to do with my recent posts, and it's what you should be trying to do if you are a townie.

Here's where I am in terms of reads at the moment. The list of people in each category is not ordered.

Hard Town - These are the people who've done something to make me actively trust them.
Alison
PSINightmareEmpower
Carotenoid

Townlean - These are the people who've had one good post and then not much else of substance.
Over time, the things that made me townlean them are going to get old and irrelevant, and if they don't do more townie things to keep them in my good books, they'll start dropping out and into the scumlean territory.
cayvie
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
Fatmo
Jackofhearts2005
Long Con
nutella

Mixed Bag - These are the people who have done some things I think are definitely good and some things I think are definitely bad.
chardonnay

Hard Null - these are the people I have no read on at all.
[The list is empty. If yours isn't empty, try to make it empty. Be aggressive about scumleaning people for doing nothing and make them show they're town.]

Scumlean - these are the hard lurkers, slankers, and people who've done nothing to earn trust at all.
Inactivity is usually NAI, but in this gamestate we have to seriously suspect inactives as faking it. Pressure these people and force them into either townread or scumread territory. Don't let them stay under the radar forever.
DJ Neutron Star
dov
KitsuShel

Scum - they're just scum.
cassowary
Jiwon

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