Search found 302 matches

by Alison
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:45 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]

Kylemii wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:51 pm
Alison wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:30 pm I'm just saying that the way you're advocating playing mafia is probably closer to the way I use Tinder than the way I play mafia.

I also enjoyed playing with you and look forward to playing with you again, I'm just explaining my mafia playstyle/theory. I don't have any hard feelings against you but I don't think what I did was wrong and I'd do it again in a similar scenario. You can claim it led to our loss this game, but it would have been fine if everyone else had been on board and just played F3 normally, and besides I think over the course of multiple games it wins more games than it sabotages.
well, no. yeeting me was a good decision from an "all things being equal" perspective, and I am always prone to dramatically accepting or rejecting my own death depending on moods.

if you really didn't rush vote martin first it's actually 100% not suboptimal. that changes basically all of the context.
i did not rush vote martin, if that was my plan I would have voted him off the bat

I voted him after he voted me, which is standard F3 play
by Alison
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:44 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]

MartinGG99 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:28 pm
Alison wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:13 pm Martin who immediately entered and voted me
But didn't lock it in :shrug:
You essentially did

like you can pretend you didn't lock it in if you want to salve your ego but everyone who read the game knows that you weren't shifting to BK
by Alison
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:30 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]

I'm just saying that the way you're advocating playing mafia is probably closer to the way I use Tinder than the way I play mafia.

I also enjoyed playing with you and look forward to playing with you again, I'm just explaining my mafia playstyle/theory. I don't have any hard feelings against you but I don't think what I did was wrong and I'd do it again in a similar scenario. You can claim it led to our loss this game, but it would have been fine if everyone else had been on board and just played F3 normally, and besides I think over the course of multiple games it wins more games than it sabotages.
by Alison
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:13 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]

You read the game wrong, it was Martin who immediately entered and voted me.

Yes it was 100% in my control, and it was a correct line of play. I would do it again without regrets a second time. It is always correct to eliminate the wild card before F3 so you can play the game properly without feeling the need to make difficult decisions about the question mark who has executed 0 scum. You're saying "the only reason why Kyle was in a position where he had to die was because Alison had a policy of always voting Kyle during F3", but what you don't understand is that policy exists for a reason. A policy like that would have stopped town losses in a dozen previous Syndicate games, including Space Invaders, GOC, Mysterious Universe, Making Friends and Enemies, the list goes on and on. You don't understand why this policy exists, which is why you feel it's arbitrary, but I'm telling you that the policy exists for a reason and is pro-town to implement.

You talk about how my playstyle introduces a lot of easily avoidable mistakes. Whether that's true or not, you also can't deny that it avoids a lot of mistakes that people who play your way fall into. GOC would have been a town stomp if people had adopted that philosophy. As for "negates the purpose of playing with people instead of bots", I don't know what you think the purpose of playing with people is but I don't play mafia to interact with others. If I wanted to interact with others I'd go on Tinder. The purpose of playing mafia in my book is to try to play the game as perfectly as possible because that's what I enjoy about it. If I think interacting with others is correct play (which it is usually is for the majority of most games, especially D1 and so forth) I'll do it. But once I calculate that it's no longer optimal to interact with others and it's a better move to just execute an automatic plan without deviation then why would I do something so wasteful?

There's a reason that nobody talks and you just have 3 quickhammers in a row when we have mech auto (eg. follow the cop, or enough green checks to end the game by numbers). Interaction exists to help you form reads a certain way and when you no longer have interest in forming reads that way there's no point in talking to the other players in the game any more. If you want to chat with them because they're your friends, go ahead, but warping your playstyle around it is absurd. If you want to treat mafia like something you do at a nightclub or on a date where the aim is to socialize with others, I won't stop you and I won't even criticize you because everyone has fun a different way. But don't expect me to follow it your way and don't jeopardize my games by insisting on suboptimal social interaction.
by Alison
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:03 am
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:06 am I don't think I'd call not pushing or voting partners unless you have no choice gamebreaking

Like

Theres a legitimate and reasonable argument to be made that not bussing when you're scum is optimal, and afaik mikey doesn't take it to the extreme of refusing to vote a partner even if they're red checked or if it's clearly the optimal line, so its fine imo.

Basically I don't think the bar where mikey is willing to push a partner is nonexistent, its just a lot higher than most of ours. That's fine.
I would be pretty annoyed if I was scum with Mikey and had to deal with the town suddenly getting 4 innocent childs after he flips
by Alison
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:27 am
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

And Mikey that is a trust tell and you should knock it off because it ruins games.
by Alison
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:25 am
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

@Kylemii It was not a logical fallacy, it was optimal play. I resolve people based on things that are hard to fake first, and I don't throw away structural elements in favor of "but he's acting so town though". And I gave town a chance to win F3 after your death anyway. Mafia might be a social game but trusting in the human element is just begging to get outplayed and I've won so many scum games by abusing that. You should know that, because "the human element" was what lost you GOC when a strict adherence to logic and structuralism would have won it.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:03 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:00 pm Bo done good
Yeah he played really well.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:58 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

Esooa died saying Martin was scum and BK was never-vote, even at F3. I guess maybe Esooa was killed to lock those reads in, and it was a case where scum shot the loosest cannon because they went deep?
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:52 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:51 pm Eh I think the poe approach was fine, probably worth reevaluation fmpov when esooa was nked heading into f5, or that's when I would've gone "something is fucky" amd reconsidered bo at least, but maybe esooa was nked because I was already dead, idk

F3 was not great

But I don't think killing myself and Kyle was all that bad, at least for me I was townie on play but had terrible votes so I get it.
The person who the Esooa kill pointed most strongly to was Martin I think. Pushing on that angle would've led town astray too. I think I actually factored that in when considering F5.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:51 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

The bright side of this is that I don't have to play this F3 on my girlfriend's birthday tomorrow and can spend time with her instead. So maybe Martin helped me out after all lol.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:50 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

nutella wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:43 pm Also mech reasons and "pelts" are silly when wolves can get those on their side and some ppl are just obvtown on tone fmpov but that's another matter
Kyle is an uncleared individual up against:

- a trust telling slot
- someone who the whole wolf team piled on in self-pres D1
- someone who buried a wolf D1

I don't think "tone" is enough to make him townie enough to risk the game to save. And "tone" + a good interaction with Falcon was all he had to his credit.

If I'm trusting enough to let tone sway me, maybe I'd have had more chance of winning this game, but I'd lose the next five because anyone who can fake good tone can easily finesse me.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:47 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

nutella wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:42 pm
Alison wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:37 pm Like it's easy to say "just get there on Kyle so he isn't a liability in F3 any more 4head" but doing that has its own risks as well, which both of you should know, because you've both lost games by deviating from a POE which would have won the game because the wolf "acted townie" at endgame. I made the move that I calculated was able to both avert that risk by getting rid of the big question mark and also give town a chance to win fairly by playing a regular F3. We got rid of the question mark, but F3 crumpled instantly. That's life.
I think I have seen more games lost by incorrectly plowing through a poe that the deepwolf is happy to let slide.
In my experience playing mafia, if I look at all the games I see lost by deviating from a good POE vs the games I see lost by following a bad POE, I'd say it's a ratio of 2:1 in favor of deviating from a good POE. That seems intuitive to me because as Kyle and Martin have brought up people tend to not be robots, they're more likely to create chaos in an orderly situation out of paranoia than to hold faith in a bad POE after multiple green flips in a row. And also because deepwolves by definition tend to be rare. Like, when the whole wolf team piles on a player D1 to save themselves, 9 times out of 10 that player is town. And it is precisely because of that that people get townread for it.

I have no doubt you're telling the truth about your experiences, but I've seen a crapton of games lost by wrongful deviation as well. I have to take that into account when making my decisions this game.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:41 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:36 pm Basically: if one finds themself saying "it is nearly impossible for me to view you as town" to anyone in a game that does not offer conclusive mechanical solutions, then that player could probably stand to take a step back and reconsider their world view -- especially if they are allowed to be alive in a final three. They may not necessarily change their mind, but it should be reasonably plausible to change their mind. Nothing's likely to be so kind to a probabilistic approach in a mountainous-adjacent game inherently designed to force players to rely upon behavioral reads.
If Kyle is town and they exe me then BK just blasts Martin (since Martin was leaning towards Kyle town) and enters an endgame of ts account-Kylemii-BoKnows.

I don't think I can be blamed for not having any faith in that endgame. Because even if you say "well everyone should have the possibility of re-evalling open in their minds in mountainous", the facts of the matter are that given the gamestate and the reads expressed so far I don't think that gamestate leads to a victory. And I think if you were go to back in time and have me back down and say "okay okay I guess kyle is town after all" it wouldn't have helped.

And that's assuming that Kyle is town in the first place, which is nowhere near proven when everyone else has collected a pelt and he hasn't.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:37 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

Like it's easy to say "just get there on Kyle so he isn't a liability in F3 any more 4head" but doing that has its own risks as well, which both of you should know, because you've both lost games by deviating from a POE which would have won the game because the wolf "acted townie" at endgame. I made the move that I calculated was able to both avert that risk by getting rid of the big question mark and also give town a chance to win fairly by playing a regular F3. We got rid of the question mark, but F3 crumpled instantly. That's life.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:35 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

The POE condemning both nook and Kyle was not game losing because we had the spare exes to go through both of them and then settle down and find the deepwolf. That's the point I'm making to you. If we had two exes and nook and Kyle were on the block then we would have fucked up. But we had the exes to play it both ways, to clean up the POE the way we saw it and then play a standard F3 amongst "cleared" citizens by proving that at least one of them was miscleared.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:33 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:28 pm
Alison wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:22 pmand I think that number is miniscule.
This is kind of what I mean. If the number truly was as minuscule as you believed it to be, then I think that's representative of suboptimal town play before the "who's going to F3" discussion even begins.
I play the cards I'm dealt, not the cards I wish I had. By town consensus everyone thought BK was townie as shit and Kyle was scummy as shit. I know I'm town, so rather than make a gamble on a Kyle read and pray that the town miraculously reverses their opinions and gets there, I decided to clean up the POE and play a standard F3 without any things happening.

The collective understanding that nook/Kyle was in the POE was decided multiple days ago. You're arguing this POE is flawed and that town shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. Maybe so, I think there was compelling evidence that scum was in those two. But the point is that given that the POE is flawed it's better to break the game out of it by having the host flip Kyle - which I've referred to in previous games as "proving the existence of a deepwolf" - than by praying that town miraculously gets there at F3.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:28 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:07 pm Okay, maybe I got too agitated.

I apologize if I offended you Alison, but I think we just have critical differences in perspective of Fourm Mafia play.

I was perhaps unfairly sensitive to the word use of "wrong" (as the connotation can be associated with more negatively than just facts such as morality), but I'm willing to admit in some aspects that my play was incorrect or suboptimal. I just don't think it was the worst.
No, you didn't offend me. I don't get mad when I lose games of mafia. I've lost a billion games of mafia, in way more embarrassing ways than this, and I wasn't upset at any of them, because that's the risk you accept when you sign up to a game, that you could get tricked and lose the game. And at the end of the day it's a detective game for 0 stakes. I got annoyed because you accused me of being bad at mafia and having no evidence to support my claims about how to play the game and then snap voting me 5 minutes into F3. I don't think you should be criticizing my ideas about game theory and calling me lazy, unmotivated etc. when I clearly was able and willing to put a lot of effort into solving the game and had specific reasons why I was pushing for an auto on Kyle. Snap voting 5 minutes into F3 is just always a bad play so I felt it was pretty hypocritical of you to criticize my understanding of theory right after doing that.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

nutella wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:20 pm What jay said. The tunnel on kyle was unjustified fmpov and would deserve reevaluation in any case. If you weren't willing to recognize he was being quite towny even during f5, that's on you, sorry.
He was being townie it just didn't matter. The question was not "are you certain that Kyle is scum", I even said a couple of times that I'm considering the possibility he can be town and I have a plan what to do in that scenario. The question is "can the game be won if you leave town Kyle to F3" and that is unlikely enough that it doesn't matter.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:24 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

For any reasonable value of X and Y it seems clear to me that the cost-benefit of leaving Kyle alive isn't worth it. He'd have to be town (unlikely by itself consider that he's up against the trust telling guy, the guy who buried mafia D1 and the guy who mafia tried to self-pres on D1), AND he'd have to survive F3, which is also independently unlikely given what I said above. Two things that are unlikely by themselves have to occur together in order for not exeing Kyle to result in a town win, and I'd much rather just go to a standard F3 and take my chances there.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:22 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

Basically, if we take the chance that Mikey and Kyle get there on BK at F3 as being X%, and the chance of Kyle being scum as Y%, then the only way we benefit from not exeing Kyle is if X% of (100 - Y%) is reached, and I think that number is miniscule.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:19 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:17 pm Alison-Kyle-BK --> Alison decides Kyle is town and votes BK
Martin-Kyle-BK --> Martin decides Kyle is town and votes BK
Mikey-Kyle-BK --> Mikey decides Kyle is town and votes BK (doesn't appear to me his inactivity was severe enough to presume a non-vote)

If any of these things is so unlikely that it is inconceivable, then that's not the fault of statistical probability -- it's the fault of erroneous town mindset(s).

Deciding a player must be eliminated given some set of inexact evidence (e.g. bad votes or associations in a near-mountainous game) is not precisely "optimal", at least in that it is less than the maximum possible potential of human deduction. It's a by-the-numbers approach, and in a final three that kind of mindset often needs to take a hike.

Granted, there may be/are probably some important contextual details I lack.
Martin-Kyle-BK never happens, because BK would shoot Martin in that scenario. I know myself and I can tell you that unless BK seriously outed himself as a wolf at the last second I wouldn't have gotten there on Kyle being townier than him. The only scenario that seems remotely plausible is that Mikey makes the right choice, but Mikey + BK were both way townier than Kyle on mechanics and Mikey most likely makes the obvious choice anyway because he clearly isn't motivated or into the game enough to work really hard for the solve (which he would have to do in order to get there on Mikey).
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:11 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:09 pm Context-deficient observer opinion:

Instant final three votes aren't ideal. But also, there are plenty of conceivable and even realistic worlds wherein Kyle is alive in F3 and wins the game.
Don't think so.

I'm obligated to vote Kyle in any situation where we're both in F3, so the only way for Kyle to win would be for a loose cannon to make a hero shot. But which F3 involves that? If I got exed at F5, BK just kills Martin and collects auto win from Mikey. If anyone else gets exed BK just kills Mikey and collects auto win from me.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:04 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

@BoKnows you played great, really did a good job deepwolfing. Grats on the win, well deserved! @falcon45ca @Quin you two as well
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:55 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

I don't mind losing games but if there's one thing that truly annoys me when it comes to mafia it's people who don't understand how to play the game and try to argue with me when I tell them to play properly. Some slots are an absolute liability for town and need to be gotten rid of in a phase where it's safe to do so. And you don't understand that and insist on tunnelling your personal ego reads, all the way to town's demise. There's a reason I didn't immediately vote you when opening the day and you ignored that completely and forced my hand.

The whole damn game wasted because of your ego.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:53 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:51 pm
BoKnows wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:50 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:49 pm GG to @BoKnows though

at least I was right they were trying to anti-spew with the D1 elimination

maybe not bussing but vaguely in the same area
When you said that you gave me half a heart attack :beer:
In retrospect your reaction was pockety

But I got distracted by something I felt was distinctly wrong no matter how its put
You literally voted a townie 5 minutes in F3 because you don't agree with their idea of mafia theory
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:52 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:50 pm
Alison wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:49 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:48 pm
Alison wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:44 pm Anyway I've locked my vote on you and I'm town so if you're town you can pat yourself on the back for the worst tunnel on planet earth, scumreading Alison for playing like a robot.
Says the person who did that to kyle

LHF pushing like that

it was terrible imo and I won't be sad to conflict with such a thing again in the future because that is what I believe
The difference between you and me is that I made that push in F5 and you made that push in F3. I specifically tried to avoid getting Kyle to F3 because I knew Kyle would lose any F3. Construct any theoretically possible F3 with Kyle in it that wins the game, you can't. Kyle self voted because he knew this, only you threw the game anyway by immediately voting me and thus making it impossible for town to win.
Theory implies there's evidence.

There isn't.
So construct a single F3 where Kyle is town and town wins the game. Go on.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:51 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

Literally just auto Kyle and we can have a proper F3 where we play mafia normally instead of this shit where you force a 1/1/1 wagon and a self vote then immediately copypaste a wall of text and vote a townie in F3. How in the fuck is that optimal play.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:49 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:48 pm
Alison wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:44 pm Anyway I've locked my vote on you and I'm town so if you're town you can pat yourself on the back for the worst tunnel on planet earth, scumreading Alison for playing like a robot.
Says the person who did that to kyle

LHF pushing like that

it was terrible imo and I won't be sad to conflict with such a thing again in the future because that is what I believe
The difference between you and me is that I made that push in F5 and you made that push in F3. I specifically tried to avoid getting Kyle to F3 because I knew Kyle would lose any F3. Construct any theoretically possible F3 with Kyle in it that wins the game, you can't. Kyle self voted because he knew this, only you threw the game anyway by immediately voting me and thus making it impossible for town to win.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:47 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

Right after stirring up crap about how I'm scum for pushing the mech optimal line which every dead townie in the entire game agreed on and that needed to be cleared before F3.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:47 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

I was willing to re-eval but you sealed the deal so I'm not interested in hearing how I'm a bad player when you walked into F3 and voted a townie in your first post.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:46 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:45 pm
Alison wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:44 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:41 pm
Alison wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:38 pm There is no major vulnerability to my play. If Kyle had been permitted to come to this F3 the game would be over. You are either scum or so willingly blind about what good mafia play means that you're throwing the entire F3 for the sake of it.
Should've explained and solved better :shrug:

But I guess you don't need to do that as scum.

At least I made a good, honest-to-god, read on Kyle and I was godamm right. If you think that's a misplay for me to read that on D5 and to investigate and push you instead then you should've re-evaluate what scum-hunting is.
Yeah, and saving Kyle would have lost F3 anyway. So there's no world where you're town and played correctly there, you're either mafia or you're town who threw the game with your sick derail of a very simple POE.
You're projecting your own beliefs onto others wrt how LHF a slot is.

BoKnows only voted with you because he thought you were right; not because he scum-read Kyle from what I've read.
BK voted with me because he's scum and just won the game mate.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:46 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:44 pm Yeah you should vote me if you're scum

the guy who didn't give you free coverage when Alison did
You literally derailed an extremely linear game and turned F5 into a circus then came into F3 and forced me to vote you since there was no way to win with you if you were town, but ok
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:45 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

I have no regrets /shrug
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:45 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

BoKnows wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:44 pm [VOTE: Martin] aubergine
I guess the game is over, gg
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:44 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

Anyway I've locked my vote on you and I'm town so if you're town you can pat yourself on the back for the worst tunnel on planet earth, scumreading Alison for playing like a robot.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:44 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

MartinGG99 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:41 pm
Alison wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:38 pm There is no major vulnerability to my play. If Kyle had been permitted to come to this F3 the game would be over. You are either scum or so willingly blind about what good mafia play means that you're throwing the entire F3 for the sake of it.
Should've explained and solved better :shrug:

But I guess you don't need to do that as scum.

At least I made a good, honest-to-god, read on Kyle and I was godamm right. If you think that's a misplay for me to read that on D5 and to investigate and push you instead then you should've re-evaluate what scum-hunting is.
Yeah, and saving Kyle would have lost F3 anyway. So there's no world where you're town and played correctly there, you're either mafia or you're town who threw the game with your sick derail of a very simple POE.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:42 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

@BoKnows if you're scum you can collect your free win now. If you're town you can also collect your free win now. Either way you should just vote Martin and enjoy the victory.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:42 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

[VOTE: Martin] aubergine

@Sloonei @juliets Locking my vote.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:41 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

You know what. I'm just going to do what I said I'd do yesterday. Right now I think there's a 65% chance Martin is scum and a 35% chance BK is scum, but based on what I know about Martin I don't believe I can talk him out of voting me if he's town anyway because he's spent so long screaming about how my idea of playing mafia is wrong that it would probably puncture his ego to do so and so he will never re-evaluate.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:38 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

There is no major vulnerability to my play. If Kyle had been permitted to come to this F3 the game would be over. You are either scum or so willingly blind about what good mafia play means that you're throwing the entire F3 for the sake of it.
by Alison
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:05 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 6]

Well well well
by Alison
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:31 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 5]

ts account looks like he's afk so it's either a self vote hammer or 2/1/1 at plurality.

I think everyone's said their piece so if you're town you can go ahead and self hammer. If that is the case you can go in peace and be rest assured you're giving the rest of the town the maximum chance to win.
by Alison
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:28 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 5]

MartinGG99 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:26 pm
Alison wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:24 pm I can't force you to play the game the way I want
This applies to both ways, and you can't always know what people will think.
You're completely correct, I can't force you to play properly if you want to turn the game into a clown fiesta.

And I'm not going to make the thread toxic by flaming you or shouting and screaming like some people do. Instead, I'm just going to tell you the way I see the game, leave it up to you to make an informed, conscious choice about what you think the optimal strategy and vote is, and wash my hands of responsibility if you guys decide to take the game in your own direction and lose it.
by Alison
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:25 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 5]

MartinGG99 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:23 pm
Alison wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:20 pm Voting out mafia doesn't mean you're town, but if you haven't voted out any mafia then you need to be resolved. That's what I'm saying, it's as clear as day, and you're spinning in 50 circles trying to avoid that.
Then its policy, if you mandatorily resolve everyone who doesn't vote a mafia.

You don't actually scum-read kyle.

Anyways, its entirely possible (in a hypotheyical new game of this) just to do 1 bus, and then have 4-5 towns not on that wagon. Do we just chop all the towns because two mafia were bussing?
policy applies at endgame, not at start game
by Alison
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:24 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 5]

Yeah I'm not arguing this with you. I can't force you to play the game the way I want and if you want to make a very simple endgame into a complete shitshow through tinfoil, paranoia and deviating from perfectly good plans then that's your perogative. If this is how you all want to play mafia, if you think this is how towns win games, then it's up to you. I've given you a crystal clear solve and gamesetate analysis + reasoning to back it up. I absolve myself of responsibility for how the game ends up since people are doing shit like making 1/1/1 wagons on F5 and telling themselves "hmm, yes, that is such a great idea, surely this will catch mafia".
by Alison
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:21 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 5]

MartinGG99 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:19 pm
Alison wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:13 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:09 pm You're so confident in what you think the game state is and what people's views are and the reasons X appears town to others

you seemingly become ignorant of the natural existence that is unpredictability in games

heck the very fact that I'm voting you suggests such and that I'm TR'ing kyle was likely unexpected for you
Making a hero shot on F3 is like hitting on 19 in Blackjack. You just don't do it.
Nobody's doing the hero shooting because a single vote doesn't decide an F3.
Do you know how F3 works?

A single misvote instantly loses the game at F3. Are you aware of this?
by Alison
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:20 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 5]

Voting out mafia doesn't mean you're town, but if you haven't voted out any mafia then you need to be resolved. That's what I'm saying, it's as clear as day, and you're spinning in 50 circles trying to avoid that.
by Alison
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:17 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 5]

You know what, I give up. I'm not going to talk to a brick wall and if you're mafia you're never going to be convinced by it anyway.

My POE is Kyle -> Martin and I'm locking that in. BK/ts account can claim their wins right now if they're scum and well played to them in that scenario.

I'm sticking to that and if everyone else decides not to see reason then that's on them.
by Alison
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:16 pm
Forum: Previous Heists
Topic: Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]
Replies: 1976
Views: 63716

Re: Bee Mafia [DAY 5]

MartinGG99 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:14 pm
Alison wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:09 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:07 pm And I don't believe that.

That isn't factually established.
It is because if Kyle goes to F3 then town has to exe him due to the fact that he's the only one in the game who hasn't buried a mafia member

The only way your play wins is if you're right about Kyle being town AND town gets there on him at F3 despite the fact that he was hard POE'd yesterday and the wagon was deviated from him to exe a townie AND everyone else has buried a mafia member and he hasn't

Please think about how town's win condition is achieved instead of treating the poll as a glorified readslist
You really don't think people have different values for how persuasive, towny, or scummy must be?

How boring must a game become. Not to mention, I don't think its impossible for scum to bus; I believe that implies nobody here will think of bussing.

The fact that you're using it to such great lengths as towny AI assertively bothers me as well. You're using it to justify Kyle's execution; not why you're town.
No I think there's a chance mafia bussed

It's just that before you can start digging into "who bussed?" you should first get rid of the people who don't have any pelts, and then when you've proven that mafia bussed then you can start figuring out who it was. Rather than just throw everything to the wind and picking some random interaction and staking the game off that.

Yes I'm trying to convince everyone else to execute Kyle because that's the proper way to play mafia. Jesus Christ.

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