The Syndicate

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:14 pm Why are Ted and Leetic voting for each other? That does not look v/v at all.

hold on wtf is this read

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:16 pm
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:24 pm tsp's posts have been forgettable to me but we're on the same wagon so sure i guess i can hold off on reading him for now
That's no excuse.

Yes it is

Point being I can do amazing stuff D2 and beyond.

Let me live to Day2, that’s when I shine, more towards late game. I’ll give a huge post with everyone listed. Ted talk thing.

I need the night for myself, I can’t both defend myself against cases and solve, you can’t possibly expect me to do that

You’re reading me for stuff that new players make. It’s also a page 2 case that never evolved. Get on with the new times.

Master radishes you literally can’t read me, please switch to leetic.

[mention]Long Con[/mention] come vote leetic

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:46 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:40 pm 1) Mac read is not back tracking, it was an actual reaction test

2) What bigger commitment out of “ts is town” can you even get?

Feels like you’re in my ISO looking for things that look bad without actually looking for context.
1. If it was a reaction test, why did you never comment on Mac's reaction? Was your vote on me, which also had no reasoning attached, a "reaction test" as well?
2. Maybe not saying he's town after saying something suspicious of him, or explain why you had a change in the read. Saying his play is unusual for him, then immediately flipping and just posting he's town with no real explanation is noncommittal.

Still not feeling you.

I posted the reasoning that you also commented on

“Kind of convenient you choose to forget about it, we had a talk about it early game, don’t you remember our clash”

Like you’re a wolf idc entertaining your frames that you’re painting for me to argue from, it’s a waste of time.

Just because I’ve done a reaction test, doesn’t mean that:

a) I am always 100% guaranteed to receive something from it that’s AI, because that’s entirely on the other player to fulfill

Mac is unreadable, I attempted to read him and it failed. Me making a reaction test doesn’t mean that I know how to read Mac / that I should get something from it, it proves I’m trying to, I’m scum hunting

All you’ve done was to move your vote for level 1 surface reads.

2) you never asked me about it, I wonder why. Too busy appearing to do actual work.

I appreciate the little chit chat, I won’t convince you that you have a wolf PM. I’m wasting my time.

Had a sudden epiphany? you were voting speed for memes instead of my “backtracks” for christ’s sake

You town read me.

1) Mac read is not back tracking, it was an actual reaction test

2) What bigger commitment out of “ts is town” can you even get?

Feels like you’re in my ISO looking for things that look bad without actually looking for context.

MR is your case on me the same as it was on page 2?

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:27 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:23 pm I actually don’t, why is that hard to believe?
I mean, it happened only yesterday, plus you actually responded to me. Seems convenient that you would forget it when it helps your agenda to do so.

Yes, because letting myself get picked on by you on purpose helps my agenda by a huge ton.

When if I were scum, I could just go back over and read it.

I’m literally laying out baits and you’re taking each one of them.

Make me look townier please :P

I guess that’s how untown you’ve been, left no impression on me other than “yeah that can be a wolf”

And i remember a lot of things generally

I actually don’t, why is that hard to believe?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:01 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:46 am Reminder for self im on page 9 i got some math to do

I did see that epi placed a vote on me, I’m absolutely going to obliterate him at all costs
But fuck semicolons, right?

What dose r i am kindergarten

Leetic, your scum lean is voting with you, how does that make you feel?

It's going from the premise Epignosis is town.

"is this a social distancing thing" is playful banter, it's not like he wants Epi to move his vote, it almost feels manipulative to the point of "I guess if I make a joke about his vote being insane, he'll double down on it"

Plus, the sorting question followed by the banter question kind of nullifies the interrogative question you know. It's not how a wolf treats his partner, I think I have some insight into Sloonei's antispew and he'd want to at least entertain the interrogatory process for a bit, follow through with more questions, whereas this is like...Defeating the purpose from the start. It's not done to actually figure out his reasoning or anything.

I don't know that's all you get, my mind is a beautiful messy place.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:59 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:57 am leetic "justifying suspicion rather than developing reads"
Spoiler: show
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:13 am
ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:57 am
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:06 am
Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?
I would like to know from you. Are you worried about me pocketing you?
Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:34 am
ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:37 am
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:13 am Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.
That's cool. Are you in particular worried about me pocketing you? Just answer the question. It's not like it could hurt you to answer, right?
No, and any player who knows me will tell you that I'm not particularly easy to pocket. But why even ask me in the first place, this seems like a weird question to ask to someone who asked a question to you

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:18 am I think I'm fine making a town core of Sloonei and Mikey for now. Perhaps my more confident town reads / the only ones I feel like I have some reason for.

By the way, full disclosure, I will be aiming for accuracy over stating reads for the sake of being town read for them, which, surprisingly, is what I was usually doing.
I don't know why you want to make a towncore this early in the game. Even ignoring that it's still too early to say for sure whether they're both town, at this point in the game everyone should be participating.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:37 am The activity comment felt out of place, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand, it wouldn't be an issue if, on the other hand, he knew what was going on or his scum buddy wasn't missing. Although that's reaching a bit. Or maybe not. After all, in what world would a scum care if two townies weren't put in the main thread. Kudos to the mod!
I don't really like this post or the post succeeding it. It seems to make the assumption that the two missing players are town, without even considering the possibility that either might not be. I mean, if you operate under the opposite assumption, then you can make the opposite point just as easily ("Scum would be much more concerned about the missing players because their scumbuddy might be missing!"). Overall, it's grasping at straws for a reason to suspect.
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:20 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:14 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:13 pm Has anyone actually tried to defend LC? I'm a bit wary of the growing LC wagon at the moment as D1 wagons with little resistance rarely land on scum.
I didn't even notice that he had votes. Why are you worried about the growth of his wagon? Do you have any particular thoughts on Drago or speedchuck regarding their votes?
Speedchuck joining the wagon seems a bit opportunistic, he had one post that was sort of shading LC but wasn't too enthusiastic (that was a followup from a question by Drago) and then just voted. Judging by the response to your and Dragomir's posts about LC, no one is really defending them, which makes it seem an opportunistic wagon to join on.
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:33 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:36 am @ts account never voted Sloonei through all of this.

Why not?
I do think this is an interesting point, though. Considering that there were already two votes on Sloonei at the time, he may have not wanted to appear too opportunistic. His constant tunneling that day was a waste of time especially for someone who wanted more interaction.
I'll stop there.
Unrelated thought: This list of reads feels arbitrary, and a couple of the reads fit the mold of this post's main premise.
I can see a lot of my civ play in what you're scumreading Leetic for.

What were you scum reading leetic for again? [mention]MacDougall[/mention]

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:19 am
ts account wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:16 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:19 pm All Role PMs have been sent! It is now D1, which will end at a majority vote or by April 2, 7pm EDT.

For somebody opposed to mechanics discussions, you're quick to point out mechanics to people like me.

This is a horrible post for Epi.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:42 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:41 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm Does anyone else think it's weird that we have ~40 hours left and I'm already at L-3?
No. What's weird about it?
I think it's likely that at least one of my voters is scum. Probably precisely one since it would be risky for mafia to gang up on someone this early
Why? Which one?
It's still pretty early in the game when many users are throwing around suspicions. But a wagon of four people, rather close to the number needed to hammer, is not a thrown suspicion. It's a clear choice. Especially jarring when no other wagon has reached three yet.

One of the users on my wagon is ted, who I have found suspicious for other reasons. But I think the person whose vote on me looks the worst is Mac. First of all is how subtly he voted - he didn't even post that he voted for me until much later, despite being the third vote on me - the point where it becomes a viable wagon. Secondly, when he finally posted a reason for the vote, he just phrased it as following ted and not mentioning anything about me. Overall, a very sneaky vote that was barely noticed, and the results of which are clear.

So you think there are 2 scum and not one.

And you just described a town vote 9/10 times, I don't believe that you actually think Mac is wolf based on how bad his vote looks on you. That's mostly town.

You lumped me with mac because the higher the number of suspicions, the better it looks for you. What do you have on me, I barely remember you saying anything about me?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:44 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:34 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:34 pm [VOTE: tsaccount] aubergine
My concerns about ts have not been addressed, but I am now having a harder time reading his utter frustration with me as anything but genuine.
My vote stands. Convince me otherwise.
Why does your vote stand where it stands? Is this a social distancing thing?

If Sloonei ever flips wolf treat this as spew on Epi

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:41 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm Does anyone else think it's weird that we have ~40 hours left and I'm already at L-3?
No. What's weird about it?
I think it's likely that at least one of my voters is scum. Probably precisely one since it would be risky for mafia to gang up on someone this early

You have absolutely no scum reads on anyone on your wagon, what even triggered this comment.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm Does anyone else think it's weird that we have ~40 hours left and I'm already at L-3?

no

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:10 pm I was about to move my vote to leetic but I saw he already has 4 votes.

so?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:14 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:49 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:40 am Good morning.

Why is Mac SRing me?
I'm not sure that I am. I just don't have any reason to town read you.
Okay. I feel the same about you at the moment, so that's fair.

Why do you think Ted is town? I saw you made a 'snap read' on him but I don't understand why. I feel the opposite. I do think he's playing a bit differently from GoC but I found scum!Ted there (although I was busy getting lynched myself so couldn't do much about it) and feel I may have found him again.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:45 am Leetic feels cornered

What's the point you're making? He's civilian because he's being pushed into a wall or is he scum because he reacts poorly?

unless i get to like L-1 or something

Ted talk comes day 2 I'm skating on pure charisma

wow that's actually the vote

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:32 amTED TALK

is this the vote

Reminder for self im on page 9 i got some math to do

I did see that epi placed a vote on me, I’m absolutely going to obliterate him at all costs

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:32 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:25 pm My brain is trying to process the fact that Mac just announced an “exceptionally confident” town read on me on April 1st.
So when I started the game I immediately voted for Tedxtr for the kek. I later realised that Master Radishes voted for him and I observed that Radishes at that time had no votes. Given that Radishes was lynched as scum very early in the GOC I figured that he must have done something very towny to be skating, so I read his ISO and ... well found very little. But what I did find was a strong read that you are Sloonei the town as opposed to Sloonei the scum. I know Radishes is an exceptionally insightful civilian so either;

a) He is a civilian and made an insightful as fuck town read that I should probably assume is correct
or
b) He is scum and trying to pocket you

I then cast a cursory glance at your ISO in the few fleeting moments I had to do so yesterday and saw what he meant.

I was going to sheep your vote at the time, I truly don't remember where it was ... I think maybe on ts account? But while this was unfolding I also made a snap read that Tedxtr is likely town because he has a similar gear shift here to you, so I decided to sheep him instead.

Not April Fools.

Ok

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:17 pm Post #342 and #346 seem to be confirmation bias because they show turnip is starting with the conclusion- Sloonei is scum- and then seeing the play fit into that pattern, rather than looking at the play and deciding that they are scum because xyz.

I’ve always hated reads like this, this is not how this works.

It would’ve been so if someone read Sloonei’s posts, didn’t say anything about them, then 2 days later or so they would’ve made a post, not even having thought about making that post in advance, just like “Hey, I have to make a post now! Let’s see what we can do...”

“Hmm...Let’s type in...Sloonei is scum...why? Well...”

And then he twists everything that he retained from sloonei’s posts in order to make him scum.

But most of the time what people are calling confbias is just bad structuring of posts / they want you to see what they think firsthand, rather than walking you through the process of how they got there.

I feel like LC is playing scummy on purpose

If my reads don't make sense, why are you reading me?

was it just that one post

i'm tired of explaining myself, my iso is filled with like crumbs and stuff, look through it

crumbs not as in crumbs claiming a PR and having an inno on ts but like, crumbs of explanations

i kind of feel like dropping naked votes this game really

Oh my god sloonei he's town

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:16 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:30 pm Put it on record that leetic doesn't have an issue with me town blocking both of his scum leans, but rather because I am merely making a town block. Of 2 people. In a 15er.
Yes, because even if they're both town having two people monopolize the discussion is a bad idea.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:33 pm It's sad that probably 3 town are arguing. Drago, ts, Sloonei. Makes me really sad.

this post was made by the wolf association down your neighbourhood

How is me stating two town reads making those two town reads monopolize the discussion?

The fact that 2 people haven't read my posts at all make me sad.

This post was made by the local town that's sad headquarters.

Nobody else for now.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:38 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:33 pm It's sad that probably 3 town are arguing. Drago, ts, Sloonei. Makes me really sad.

this post was made by the wolf association down your neighbourhood
Who's bad?

Look at my ISO and take a guess

It's sad that probably 3 town are arguing. Drago, ts, Sloonei. Makes me really sad.

this post was made by the wolf association down your neighbourhood

Put it on record that leetic doesn't have an issue with me town blocking both of his scum leans, but rather because I am merely making a town block. Of 2 people. In a 15er.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:34 am
ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:37 am
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:13 am Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.
That's cool. Are you in particular worried about me pocketing you? Just answer the question. It's not like it could hurt you to answer, right?
No, and any player who knows me will tell you that I'm not particularly easy to pocket. But why even ask me in the first place, this seems like a weird question to ask to someone who asked a question to you

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:18 am I think I'm fine making a town core of Sloonei and Mikey for now. Perhaps my more confident town reads / the only ones I feel like I have some reason for.

By the way, full disclosure, I will be aiming for accuracy over stating reads for the sake of being town read for them, which, surprisingly, is what I was usually doing.
I don't know why you want to make a towncore this early in the game. Even ignoring that it's still too early to say for sure whether they're both town, at this point in the game everyone should be participating.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:24 am
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:06 am
ts account wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:58 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:55 pm
The intention of the posts themselves was not to speculate about mechanics. That particular post was me realizing that it was probably not a host error, and a search for answers among the folks who knew the theme better than I do. I don’t actually give a shit what the speculative mechanics might be. I just care that the possibility for mechanics exists.

Now explain why my mindset is not indicative of an honest civilian.
Suppose you were given the information that a mechanic exists that removes the two players from the player list, they cannot be voted on or targeted with actions, and they cannot post.
Where do you go from there?

Funnygurl, please tell me you are not a wolf.
Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?
Leetic's post here caught my eye when I read through it first time around. He is essentially, at this point, edging into an ongoing debate to fan the flames a bit, but trying to appear very casual about it, e.g. phrases like 'y'know' and 'care to explain?' and even the word 'weird' which is very vague.
This is kinda how I usually talk, y'know

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:37 am The activity comment felt out of place, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand, it wouldn't be an issue if, on the other hand, he knew what was going on or his scum buddy wasn't missing. Although that's reaching a bit. Or maybe not. After all, in what world would a scum care if two townies weren't put in the main thread. Kudos to the mod!
I don't really like this post or the post succeeding it. It seems to make the assumption that the two missing players are town, without even considering the possibility that either might not be. I mean, if you operate under the opposite assumption, then you can make the opposite point just as easily ("Scum would be much more concerned about the missing players because their scumbuddy might be missing!"). Overall, it's grasping at straws for a reason to suspect.

Fair and square, except scum have a private chat in which they let their scum buds know about the mechanics of why they aren’t posting, maybe it was even said by the moderator. And I feel like scum would just ask the mod if their partner was missing because they’re more likely to think it’s some game mechanic, rather than wanting to re-rand.

It’s hard as scum to think that the mod would fuck up the scum rands.

Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:24 am
Leetic's post here caught my eye when I read through it first time around. He is essentially, at this point, edging into an ongoing debate to fan the flames a bit, but trying to appear very casual about it, e.g. phrases like 'y'know' and 'care to explain?' and even the word 'weird' which is very vague.

This is also what I wanted to point out but somehow failed to do so anyway, it felt like a really easy standpoint to take while fanning the flames. I think that's the most appropriate way to put it.

I think I'm fine making a town core of Sloonei and Mikey for now. Perhaps my more confident town reads / the only ones I feel like I have some reason for.

On the weaker side of things, I kind of want to town read this post by Drago :

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:10 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:08 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:06 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:51 am I kind of want the Sloonei and ts shit to stop, there's already information to infer stuff from and quite frankly I think they're both town.
Why do you want it to stop? I don't see the point in stopping a meaningful discussion between the two.
Because I town read them both?
Chief, that's not good enough.

Because it's obviously wrong to the point where a scum would be self-aware knowing that they are attacking an angle of "the outcome of this discussion is more fruitful than the fact two people that ted town reads are arguing" is going to put him in the spot light a bit. Or maybe I'm being confbiased into thinking it would look bad, because to me it seems like a silly comment for a wolf to even make, especially when the whole debate was reaching an ending.

I don't care, I'm rocking with it!

By the way, full disclosure, I will be aiming for accuracy over stating reads for the sake of being town read for them, which, surprisingly, is what I was usually doing.

Word salad. Leetic's post about Sloonei's activity at SoD felt out of place, so did his "setup speculation" post. In Sloonei's position as town, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand. If Leetic were scum though, it wouldn't be an issue because he'd know that his scum buds aren't missing so who the fuck cares about two townies missing.

The activity comment felt out of place, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand, it wouldn't be an issue if, on the other hand, he knew what was going on or his scum buddy wasn't missing. Although that's reaching a bit. Or maybe not. After all, in what world would a scum care if two townies weren't put in the main thread. Kudos to the mod!

Horrendous Sloonei vote.

>votes Sloonei for setup speculation
> votes Mikey for pushing Sloonei for setup speculation when Mikey was speculating himself
> ends up on Mikey

Mikey = ts account

Also, it all feels contrived and fake and very surface level. Like he had no real suspicion in the first place. He just bounced out between reads even though it made no sense from a logical standpoint.

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