The Syndicate

Good game, sorry Sabie! Please communicate with the thread more often, lay out your thoughts. Whatever it might be, even if you think it’s goofy, people will most likely read it as villagery anyway.

Maybe this would’ve been one of those times where me meta checking you would’ve actually helped

Still, glad it all worked out in the end!

One more quick thing, if she really is scum like I think she is, look for defensive questions and you can clear people fairly easily just based off that. See who pushed her buttons a bit and if she responds like she did in my case, I’d call that a town, pending the situation, of course.

Thanks sprit, I really hope she’s scum or otherwise this is gonna make me look really dumb in hindsight lmao. Maybe we can get another game in together some time :P

It is what it is

Lol, don't worry I understood, all's good. I hope I didn't make the game less enjoyable by pushing for your lynch without you being able to defend yourself against anything, so I will make a case and you can pick on it whenever you feel like. I just don't really like talking with my scum reads, it makes me doubt my read tremendously and for no reason. Hope nobody takes that as a push back or whatever. If you want me to change my mind on you, then the best thing you can do is to interact with other people and keep asking questions and I'll nullify my read depending on whether I think you're townier.

I'm sorry but that's just what works for me.

Spoiler: show

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Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:37 pm scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:57 pm If epi would be able to elaborate on his case on nova I'm willing to listen.
I've already explained this, feel free to pick it apart.
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scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:21 pm From what I've seen in ISOs I was not a fan of therealet. He responds with short responses and emojis without giving much thought or anything and then got very defensive.

[VOTE: therealet] aubergine

That reads to me as a fairly shallow reasoning for your progression on ET. I don't think that's an actual thought you'd have, moreso, your progression is just too sudden on him. Scum are a lot more typical to read ISOs on one person and talking about them then to actually work the thread out and sense scum from there. I don't think that reasoning was *actually* worthy enough of a vote. "he responds with short responses and emojis" really? that's a scum read? why not scum read nanook then? hm. wonder. or mac. or TSP. or sig. or creature. see what i mean? it's basically telling me you have an agenda. Those are contrived reasons that you thought of during watching his ISO and thinking what would look good as an accusation. You didn't have that walk inside your head that civvies do.

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scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:11 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:09 pm Rej I’m giving you a chance to take sabie’s place in my town leans, she’s in scum commentator mode and it rustles my jimmies

Sabie please be townier I have concerns with a big C
So you don't like that I agree with you on dom or what?
I actually don't remember why I felt like this post was scum worthy but I guess it's because the question is still framed in such a way that it makes you defensive. I haven't claimed it's because you have or have not voted Dom. So it feels like you're trying to pocket me there, although this might be a stretch, mainly because I selected this as a scum tell and now I have to say something on it.

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scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:40 pm Rej apparently decided he's dead so he doesnt have to be responsible for voting in the poll. Not a great look.
You keep coming back to reads but this absolutely has nothing to do with the current game state and it's a thrown-out-the-window read to make you look like you're actually scum hunting, but there's no lead up to this either. Townies do things like this some times, but this post lacks a certain feeling to it. It doesn't feel like you're raising awareness on a player and then wanting to figure him out, you just call it out to make us aware of how bad Rej is looking. I reckon a town would keep coming back to this read after such an affirmation, but you just never did. Which makes me think it was more to make us start suspecting Rej (in the context, i'm like 70% sure she said this after I've kept pushing Rej, but please check and don't follow this if it's not the case. If it is, though, it's really bad)
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scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:59 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:43 pm Inb4 the team is something like sabie12, Nova and Dom

I gotta flip rej first though
Why are you including me in this?
Again, defensive question. It's not the defensiveness I'm reading scummy, it's the non-existent world building that goes after that question. She just asks questions to clear herself, not to figure people out. If she was trying to figure me out, she would've kept pushing on me after this. But she doesn't have that mentality overall, she just wants us to lose her track. Doesn't matter what alignment I am to her, because she already knows it.
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someone's pissed i'm getting on the right track

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:32 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:33 pm Hot take, if sig and nova are both town, which I can kind of sense, then sabie should get auto-lynched.
Why do all of a sudden sense they're both town when you accused both of them?

This, again, doesn't serve towards anything. The question is actually good though, but she just doesn't go through the motions. It's like a little bit of shade and that's it, never coming back to it. It's like throwing jabs in a box match. Quick jabs. This is actually a good question from her, that she does nothing with. You'd sense an agenda here, but you're not going through the motions. It's like you're focused on shady stuff so you can focus on them and show them to other people, but you're not willing to figure out what people's motivations are. This question is also framed pretty weirdly, more in an accusatory way than anything. If she was trying to figure ME out based on my full 180, it would've been something like "Why are you town reading them now?". This post ignores that logical progression on me and is just pointing out a shady thing. It's not formed in a way to provide an ongoing conversation in which she sorts me, it's almost done to make me doubt my read and to shade me for my sudden changes.

Town could do that, but if they feel like something like this happened, they're more willing to have all kinds of scenarios in their heads and they would bury me with questions. Kind of like what epi had in mind, me being the toad, etc etc. Sabie, although having plenty spec knowledge, didn't even think about that.
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TL;DR She's not going through the motions of discovering people's alignments, because she already knows them. Her questions are almost all formed in a way that is defending herself, while unconsciously exposing the fact that everyone who's attacking her is town and she assumes her top priority is to fend us off, whereas a town would also question their attacker. Sabie only asks defensive questions when being accused of something and doesn't take the extra step of figuring out her attackers. Because she knows we have all the right to attack her, she knows we're town, and she knows she needs to gain our trust.

She doesn't think like a town "Why's this motherfucker attacking me? I've been town this whole game"

She thinks like this "Shit, I'm being pushed by town. What do I do know? I need to tip them off"

Obligatory remember to lynch sabie daily post until I die.

This is Day 1.

Ask people questions, here, you can ask Nanook about his town reads and try and sort him. That would be very much productive for everyone.

Not “for sure”. There’s no attempt at figuring it out and that’s it.

You don’t need to catch scum to be town, the process which you go through to get there is what makes you town.

But for scum they realize they can get close to cleared by doing two things : 1) lynch a team mate and 2) save a town from death. You’re arguing from perspective number 1.

You don’t need to lynch scum to be town sabie. I didn’t even say that.

I’m not sure why the first phrase is formed as if it’s a contradiction, it’s actually two things that come together.

You spend way too much time on answering questions and much less time asking them. Yes. That’s what I’m implying.

And “you only said i have tmi after you questioned me” is plain straw manning. I never made such a claim.

I also don’t see why you think lynching Dom is dumb there. It got you all the way to Day 5

Please don’t take this as an invitation to debate. You spending the next 20 what hours to convince me you’re not scum are only going to make me advocate for your lynch further. If you’re town, talk to us. Show us your thought process and I’ll reconsider. For now, I’m as confident as I was on the Dom lynch.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:53 pm I would encourage you to take a glance at a scum game of mine. Giving a lot of reads and thoughts is something I typically do as scum more than as town.

I try to only give higher confidence reads as town, especially when I’m playing with people I don’t know that well

I don’t trust meta, at least not when it’s presented this way.

I don’t care for past games, I care what you think about this game.

In the case Creature’s still Bender, you should ask him for his reads tomorrow.

From my PoV, not doing anything pertains to you not being open to us about your thought process, which, again, I’m at no fault for. I’m not going to force reads out of you if you don’t want to give them, but I’m not gonna stop lynches on you either. Don’t take it personally, but you have to admit, you aren’t conveying a lot of thoughts into this thread.

Nanook hasn’t done anything and we have no reason to keep him alive (sorry bud, it’s just a matter of PoE)

So it’s sabie > nanook and if that doesn’t end then we’re dealing with a deepwolf. Or enrique is scum. Naaah let’s go with a deepwolf.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:32 pm Say Sabie is mafia, who's the third?

Nanook. We’re keeping it simple. Dom was in complete antispew.

Everyone else is much townier to even consider chasing deep wolves. Lynch people that can’t project town, then move to the real deal. If it’s not the ones that we couldn’t identify as town, we move to the ones that we town read but for shallow reasoning. And so on.

Here’s a sneak peek to my case

First post that I quoted above.

I’ll break it down for you. What is it saying? “If a case is presented, I will vote nova”

Now, even if some of you decide to say “She never said that.”

Words don’t matter. Intentions do. Read the intent behind a post.

Now, hear me out. If you won’t agree with my interpretation, than at least you’ll agree with this “I am willing to vote nova”

This comes right after sabie said he’s within his town meta. Also when Epi was putting pressure on Nova. Epi, the very same one that mislynched ET before hand. Epi, the vocal one that has a lot of pull in the thread and is really convincing. Yes. That Epi.

This progression reeks of scum motivation for setting nova up. If nova was acting accordingly to his town meta, like she claimed, what changed? She never said anything. I take it if it was important, she would’ve said something about it.

That post is saying “I am willing to place a vote on a person I town read”

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:24 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:02 pm When scum aren’t pressured, they are sitting in their comfort zone.

Spoiler: show
Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:33 pm Epi, your enrique vote is useless. Vote either nova or sabie please.

Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:39 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:35 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:33 pm Epi, your enrique vote is useless. Vote either nova or sabie please.
I'll move it where I like when I like.

Are you concerned that someone other than nova or sabie are going to be lynched?
Nobody's voting enrique, so voting there is useless. It's essentially like abstaining, which is bad. Town only have their votes. This is the only time we can kill mafia.

Don't strawman me, that's not my point. I am saying we are currently deciding between 3 people and you voting someone else is just as good as not voting. If you're town, we're losing the chance of getting a mafia.

Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:43 pm Nobody's voting Enrique, guaranteed.

Enrique didn’t post for like 6 days now, what makes you think he’s even here

Whatever works for people, Nanook :P

This style isn’t too popular but it works really fine for me. It helps me with my biases. Not right now because I’m applying it incorrectly, but when I’ll get back in shape I’ll have better results.

I mean applying it incorrectly because I should focus more on finding town than finding scum but I need my dopamine y’know

It will always feel better pinning scum down without having town reads than just leaving them out in the open after you find the towns.

Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:37 pm scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:57 pm If epi would be able to elaborate on his case on nova I'm willing to listen.
scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:21 pm From what I've seen in ISOs I was not a fan of therealet. He responds with short responses and emojis without giving much thought or anything and then got very defensive.

[VOTE: therealet] aubergine
scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:11 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:09 pm Rej I’m giving you a chance to take sabie’s place in my town leans, she’s in scum commentator mode and it rustles my jimmies

Sabie please be townier I have concerns with a big C
So you don't like that I agree with you on dom or what?
scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:40 pm Rej apparently decided he's dead so he doesnt have to be responsible for voting in the poll. Not a great look.
scum

sabie12 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:59 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:43 pm Inb4 the team is something like sabie12, Nova and Dom

I gotta flip rej first though
Why are you including me in this?
someone's pissed i'm getting on the right track

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:32 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:33 pm Hot take, if sig and nova are both town, which I can kind of sense, then sabie should get auto-lynched.
Why do all of a sudden sense they're both town when you accused both of them?

I will go in-depth tomorrow because I’m phone posting and I’m tired af

TL;DR - there’s a high chance I can read you town and I don’t need meta with you. You aren’t town. You get lynched :P

When scum aren’t pressured, they are sitting in their comfort zone. They have a much clearer view on the game, can plan ahead, etc. Fake reads confidently.

But as soon as they’re being pushed, it’s like this automatic click in your brain. You forget everything about being scum, and your main priority is to make your accusers town read you in the end. Your lymbic system takes charge. That’s when the town agenda versus scum agenda can be easily torn apart by anyone.

One wants to convince them that they’re wrong because scum think if there’s no reason, there is no guilty card handed (TMI -> mafia want to convince them they’re wrong so they can have town on their side, they know who the town is)

The other wants to go ham at their accuser because he’s obviously wrong (uninformed mentality -> there’s some form of deduction of your accuser because you’re trying to see if there’s an agenda behind you being pushed)

Mentality analysis also made me vote Sig.

His primal instinct triggered. His mentality is to survive. Focus on survival.

As soon as their wincon is in danger, they start going desperate.

Sig also had no real intention of figuring people out in that moment. He was desperate to save himself. His posts were saying “Literally anyone could get lynched right now, just fucking save me idc”

Which is the mentality an sk has. Neutral. Indie. Whatever.

That’s what ultimately made me move my vote.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:37 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:54 pm What does that ATTN mean

I guess attention but like what does it mean afterwards
Why did you mention me in the host post?

You were saying i was toad

sabie12 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:10 am
Tedexter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:33 am
therealet wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:25 amsabies town
No. At least not yet. "Busy posting" and when it's time she makes a game relevant post, it doesn't explain any of her reads. Talking about her #219. Not knowing new people doesn't give you an excuse for not forming reads on them.
Anyone who is familiar with my playstyle knows I'm not an aggressive player initially. I do a lot of observing and taking things in prior to offering a lot of reads. The day doesn't end until tomorrow evening so there's still plenty of time to discuss and get a feel for what's going on. If you want someone to offer reads you could ask them. I typically will respond if you ask my opinion on something.

Even though you didn't ask I will give some of my reads thus far. As of right now I feel creature, nova, and LC have been their typical selves. For now I'm willing to say town read on them. Creature is typically coming in guns blazing worrying about being mislynched rightfully so because I'll admit I've accidentally mistook his aggressive playstyle to mean he's bad before. So I'm cautious about accusing him based on that. LC is his usual beginning of the game self. We'll see if that changes. Later when I'm on lunch or out of work I'll look through some ISOs.

On the aggressive thing, I was referencing this post.

Like, look, see what I mean? That post where you go “i said you were aggressive, not that i was” it’s just you trying to fend off scum reads on you and not figuring people out.

See what i mean? You just defend yourself too much and you don’t actually solve.

As soon as sig was lynched, you went from “This motherfucker is a scum role cop” to “K so back to townreading you”

Sabie, I’ll be honest with you here. I don’t read people on playstyles. I read them based on whether they have TMI or not.

It does help if I check meta because I can get a deeper understanding of how certain people think and how it can affect my read in given situation, but I barely ever do that.

That’s what Dom didn’t get. I didn’t lynch him because of his play style. He had TMI. Tons of it. Don’t get me wrong, I am usually humble and all, but it was not a matter of luck on Dom. It was pure mentality analysis, core mechanics of the game. How an informed person approaches it, and how an uninformed person approaches it.

For example, you and Dom have the same type of thing going for you. You keep asking questions from people that suspect you, you shut their reasoning down, but you don’t take the extra step to actually figure people. Wanna know why? You’re being dragged out your comfort zone. You let your emotions get ahold of you. Easiest thing is differentiating scum that is being voted, and town that is being voted. There are two types of frustration, one is “I’m scum, yeah, but you’re reasons absolutely suck!” and the other one is “I’m town and you’re so dumb for scum reading me”

I quoted a lot of posts of yours that look bad, I can comment on why they are bad.

Bottom line, don’t give me the play style thing. I don’t care about play styles. As long as I have an overall idea of how your brain works, that’s all I need. The rest falls down to whether someone has TMI or doesn’t have TMI. It’s that simple.

And your posts just shine of TMI and some of them really look agenda driven. That comes out of your progression on your reads.

You aren’t taking the extra step of figuring out people that put you under scrutiny. Your posts are saying “You have no reason for scum reading me.” Good, that’s fine. What does that tell you about the person that attacked you? Are they mafia or are they town? Why did they push me? Was it reasonable? Etc etc

This just doesn’t come out from your posts at all, that extra step of figuring people out. Meaning you have TMI.

Your reasons for voting et and other people were really shallow and it proves it was contrived, mainly because you have TMI.

That’s the gist of it. There’s lazy towns, there’s low posting towns, there’s high posting towns. For me it doesn’t matter, what matters is that they all have a thing in common. They’re uninformed, so they will have to chase reads and the process will easily come out. They just have to do that.

You did mention you become aggressive towards late game.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:09 pm I don't know what I think.

Well, sabie, if you claim what I think you do, then tonight you are dying so this probably self-resolves

It’s getting real formal real quick

Nova, if only you would’ve known what unholy retribution your little clever push was about to unleash upon you, maybe you would’ve held your vote and instead vote sabie with me.

:sparta:

Rej, top 3 scum, go

You could’ve answered my question by the time you typed that sabie

You can’t really blame me for being suspicious of you sabie, come on

Sabie why are you avoiding that question

What does that ATTN mean

I guess attention but like what does it mean afterwards

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:29 pm ATTN: All Glory To the Hypnotoad has been cancelled. There shall be no more glory to the Hypnotoad.

sig has been lynched. He was the Hypnotoad.
It’s Night 4. You’ll have a little over 24 hours to submit your night actions. For this phase only, please submit night actions to juliets as well as me.
[mention]Epignosis[/mention]

Role details will be revealed later. I just ain’t got time for that now.

I have trust issues Sabieeeee

Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:08 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:06 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:03 pm Sabie how did you know there's a scum rolecop
You aggressively coming after me all of a sudden out of nowhere with no real case on me made me think you had ulterior motives. Also I read what everyone's role does. Like its public knowledge
Bolded implies you are no longer thinking this. Why?

[mention]sabie12[/mention]

Sabie if you’re town we gotta work together but you are way too scummy and everyone else is much townier by contrast

Sabie talked to me like she was gonna kill me tonight and I don’t really like that

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:32 pm Who the fuck is Mafia?

Wanna take a guess?

nova...

you will feel my wrath if you took me off scum to vote town.

i'm not prepared for this flip

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:06 pm
Tedexter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:03 pm Sabie how did you know there's a scum rolecop
You aggressively coming after me all of a sudden out of nowhere with no real case on me made me think you had ulterior motives. Also I read what everyone's role does. Like its public knowledge

Bolded implies you are no longer thinking this. Why?

If I checked you I would've killed you in the night. Why risk all this. For sig.

*if sig flips scum i'll say that I planned all of this in order to clear sabie because i was suspicious of her*

some 2012 tell says only scum read the full setup

it's not obsolete

We should've l y n c h e d her i mean

Sabie how did you know there's a scum rolecop

You guys should've voted sabie

Nova if you mislynched my town i swear

He better flips scum.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

What if i ninja on sig

NOVAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :sparta:

I swear it was my astigmatism

oh wait yeah well still

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