The Syndicate

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:04 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:01 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:59 pm If this is Mac trying some radical new afk strategy to reverse psychology me into townreading him then so be it. I'll let myself get pocketed and he'll get outed eventually and lose. AFK Mac is not deepwolf Mac.

Also after he got past the Alison/Sloonei tunnel his reads are actually good. He suspects ChopChop, Rej, nook, Marmot, and his townreads are Urist, SPF and Falcon. I don't fully agree with these reads but they're not unreasonable and the most important ones are there.
what's your take on nanook atm?

i cant think of a single post from him in this game that i would characterize as towny. that concerns me because i thought he was obvious town from the near moments that bread mafia started

and i dont think the difference is solely effort - nanook has been posting a reasonable amount today and i just havent seen it yet
Is this

I mean it’s fair to scumread me I guess

But idk how you can compare my effort here to my effort in bread mafia and be like “yeah these are roughly equivalent”

i dont think theyre equivalent - im just saying that i dont think the reason im struggling to find you is ~just~ because your effort is lower. you're still a reasonably active presence in this game

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:03 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:01 pm I legitimately think Rej vanishing into thin air when under pressure is outing for him. His tone D1 with the attempt at being overly chill and the use of skeptical emojis to cast shade on attacks against him is congruent with his play in Space Invaders. The argument that he was saved EOD1 checks out.

Rej is scum and should be shot by a vigilante tonight.
What if we lynch him and watch how players react to the wagon?

his wagon has plenty of room

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:59 pm If this is Mac trying some radical new afk strategy to reverse psychology me into townreading him then so be it. I'll let myself get pocketed and he'll get outed eventually and lose. AFK Mac is not deepwolf Mac.

Also after he got past the Alison/Sloonei tunnel his reads are actually good. He suspects ChopChop, Rej, nook, Marmot, and his townreads are Urist, SPF and Falcon. I don't fully agree with these reads but they're not unreasonable and the most important ones are there.

what's your take on nanook atm?

i cant think of a single post from him in this game that i would characterize as towny. that concerns me because i thought he was obvious town from the near moments that bread mafia started

and i dont think the difference is solely effort - nanook has been posting a reasonable amount today and i just havent seen it yet

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:59 pm i think that rej is trying to replicate a very specific dynamic that he has with poison, and doesnt know what to do beyond that

that's the sense i've gotten from his posts, anyway

at any rate, it implies to me that rej/poison arent w/w. i think poison is tonally towny regardless too

i think that rej is trying to replicate a very specific dynamic that he has with poison, and doesnt know what to do beyond that

that's the sense i've gotten from his posts, anyway

martin asking to not get towncred for something towny that he did is a classic martin towntell

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:36 pm I am 90% certain Martin is town.

i think so too but now i look less original for saying it

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:36 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:35 pm Who do you guys think would win in a battle to the death, Green Arrow or Hawkeye?
Hawkeye and it’s not close

we're mortal enemies now

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:35 pm Who do you guys think would win in a battle to the death, Green Arrow or Hawkeye?

green arrow without question

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:33 pm I'm back here refreshed, and last night I skimmed some of the thread before sleeping, so I am aware of the whole "scum slip" situation with Chop Chop that's simply ridiculous.

why's it ridiculous? tell me more?

rej is a name that i've seen floated by the majority of the playerlist today as an option for scum

it's also a name that nearly got chopped over c4 yesterday

but he's had one vote parked him all day and virtually zero momentum against him

is that just because he hasn't been here? the lack of attention toward him is actually a little strange to me

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:31 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:29 pm what do we think about long con's vote on sloonei?
I think LC looks kinda sus, but not necessarily for that reason

i agree with 50% of this post

[VOTE: Rej] aubergine

what do we think about long con's vote on sloonei?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:07 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:06 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:54 pm how do we all read marmot?
probably scum, sadly

i just caught up
Why?

mostly tone. i thought the way he handled the questioning from you a page or two ago felt distinctly uncomfortable and like he was dancing around taking a specific stance:

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:22 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:14 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:12 pm I should clarify, when I said "a guilty conscience", I was referring to that claim coming from an Enclave mindset, and that's a harder reason to reckon with imo.
Okay but before you said that you said it was "a good look" and then called that "probably likely" (adverb count: 2). Why?

I'm still trying to figure out why he targeted Spacedaisy.

I think that his reaction of admitting it was him is a good look, because Spacedaisy pointed out specifically that it was suspicious to ignore Esooa in whatever thoughts he included. I also think it's a good look for Spacedaisy for even putting it in the thread in the first place, and she came to a similar conclusion.

But.

I don't trust your handling of ChopChop this game, which is why I'm skeptical about it.

^^^this is basically a "nothing" post that has the beginnings of a specific stance and then circles back to neutral

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:56 pm Another question, if Chop is a lone townie, why does he send the message to Spacedaisy?

^^i also kind of felt like this was marmot shopping around to see if the "why would chopchop do this as scum?" line of reasoning would pick up any momentum

i dont think any of this is lockwolf stuff for marmot, but i dont like it

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:54 pm how do we all read marmot?

probably scum, sadly

i just caught up

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:05 am Nanook stop randing mafia

do u have any thoughts on dom

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:05 am Nanook stop randing mafia

ikr

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:40 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:37 am could someone please give me a brief summary of why chopchop is outed scum? i didn't get to closely read the pages where he got ~outed~
1) chopchop claims messenger, who sent spacedaisy a message.
2) spacedaisy claims that the message was suspicious (attempting to fish for her role) and contained a scumslip (it left esooa out of the player list, suggesting that the sender knew she would be dead by morning)

thanks

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:02 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:39 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:34 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:06 am oh right: epi is not a vault city resident
Why?

Spoiler: show
Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:31 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:30 pm
Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:29 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:28 pm
I'm not reading any of these
Why not?
I'm on mobile and it's too small to read without going through the trouble of making it bigger which meh

@staypositivefriend teach your lover to two finger zoom on mobile before someone mistakes her for an old person.

i'll pass it on :P

could someone please give me a brief summary of why chopchop is outed scum? i didn't get to closely read the pages where he got ~outed~

i feel like a lot of the concern i had about sloonei at the start of today stemmed from my underlying frustration/grumpiness about my read on c4 being ignored throughout d1, in all honesty

if i remove the emotional component from my own thoughts about sloonei, then my concerns are mostly just nitpicks

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:20 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:48 pm i think tonystarkprime is town
Why? I don't like his theory about Jack's motivations for scumreading Sloonei, I think it doesn't make sense and while this by itself isn't proof that TSP is scum it certainly doesn't help. I've had a suspicion of him throughout most of D1 and he seems like he's trying to skate by. Opening D2 with a discussion of mech instead of actual solving isn't townie.

i don't know. i really liked his attempts to figure out who mechanically could have made the shot on c4, and i've consistently liked his tone. it's an incredibly flimsy read with even flimsier justification

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:33 am Am I being fooled by Dom?

c4 (confirmed town) thought he was lock scum. Townies who are being wrongly put on the chopping block have a unique ability to sense the truth, because they have a uniquely insightful perspective on the sincerity of pushes on them (and c4 thought Dom's push was VERY insincere). They also know that they are town so they can solve the game around that, like they have a free cop check on someone in the POE.

I trusted Dom D1, but I think town is being bent over so I'm putting my thoughts on the table. I want to hear input from others because this isn't a game I trust myself to solo carry.

i consistently struggled to understand dom's line of reasoning yesterday, and i felt that the way he engaged with me was intentionally combative and not interested in dialoguing with me

i chalked that up to some alpha-male hyper dominant playstyle stuff, but he fits the description of a powerwolf in the sense that he aggressively pushed on me and c4 and even tried to partner us together (although in fairness, he did change his stance on me throughout the day), and i felt that the aggressive energy he started out with in the early game diminished quite a lot when a certain consensus was set

so he fits in a certain sense, but i dont feel like i know dom well enough as a player to understand what his typical solving looks like

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:16 am Yo, to whoever sent me the message last night, I don't know why I should trust you. See you slipped up and skipped over Esooa in your recap. How did you Esooa was gonna die last night and not be relevant to the conversation? If you were Luke you wouldn't have known. I call bullshit on your message and your attempt to solicit a role claim from me.

can you tell us more about this?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:15 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:11 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:10 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:05 am sloonei, do you have any thoughts about poison's posts on the last page or two?
I like the energy she is bringing, but I have not seen her do anything that would give me a strong indication of her alignment one way or the other. GTH town.
yeah, i liked them too, mostly because her tone feels unrestrained. was curious if you were thinking the same
Actually if there is something more than just “energy” that I would read in her favor: I like that she’s been unafraid to ask questions about things that have already been covered/comment on things she hasn’t read yet. Maybe that’s what you mean by “unrestrained”. It feels like she is here to follow her own leads at her own pace, and doesn’t care about optics or anything other than getting answers.

that is exactly what i was getting at but hadnt found a way to put into words yet

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:10 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:05 am sloonei, do you have any thoughts about poison's posts on the last page or two?
I like the energy she is bringing, but I have not seen her do anything that would give me a strong indication of her alignment one way or the other. GTH town.

yeah, i liked them too, mostly because her tone feels unrestrained. was curious if you were thinking the same

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:05 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:45 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:27 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:24 am i would not bank on it with any level of confidence

the main thing that pushes me to feel that way is the fact that esooa outrighted ignored rej for the entire game ~until~ the pressure against him started to pick up a little bit more momentum - then she suddenly started outing a fairly confident defense of rej while still playing lip service to my suspicions of him. if she didn't out her read on rej ~until~ he was being pressured, then it implies to me that she probably had a specific agenda behind doing it. the agenda could have just been to try to TMI someone as town for towncred, in theory, but the way that she seemed particularly invested in hearing what i thought about her rej read (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=738501#p738501) made me feel like she was subtly doing it to get me to back off of rej

it aligns fairly well with how i would expect esooa to treat one of her partners under pressure
could you say more about why her treatment of rej is different than her treatment of mac?
even though mac was not the topic of conversation in the game, esooa directly brought him up and called out several people for scumreading him and for not realizing that he was ~obvious town~ doing a sick wifom strategy by staying lowkey. when esooa interacted with mac, she was focused on getting her to townread him and getting in his good graces

on the other hand, esooa ignored rej for the entirety of the game, and then suddenly outed a fairly confident townread on him when he became the topic of conversation, while still playing lip service to the idea that he ~could~ be mafia

it feels like the difference between an attempt to pocket a player that she wanted to trick vs defending someone with a specific agenda
TLDR: Esoosa could be teamed with Rej or Mac but probably not both?

i actually think that esooa has partner equity with rej - the way that she passionately defended him after giving him the cold shoulder for the entire game just aligns with my understanding of how esooa likes to shield her partners. she's not much of a busser, in my experience

i do not think she's teamed with mac, though

sloonei, do you have any thoughts about poison's posts on the last page or two?

i suspect that esooa genuinely just had a scumread on chopchop

Poison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:47 am @staypositivefriend how do you see LC-esooa interaction?

i havent looked at them yet, but the specific point that sloonei brought up about esooa pretending not to know what faction long con was accused of being is 10000000000% something she would do to her partner

i think i worded that badly but w/e

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:46 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:45 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:27 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:24 am i would not bank on it with any level of confidence

the main thing that pushes me to feel that way is the fact that esooa outrighted ignored rej for the entire game ~until~ the pressure against him started to pick up a little bit more momentum - then she suddenly started outing a fairly confident defense of rej while still playing lip service to my suspicions of him. if she didn't out her read on rej ~until~ he was being pressured, then it implies to me that she probably had a specific agenda behind doing it. the agenda could have just been to try to TMI someone as town for towncred, in theory, but the way that she seemed particularly invested in hearing what i thought about her rej read (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=738501#p738501) made me feel like she was subtly doing it to get me to back off of rej

it aligns fairly well with how i would expect esooa to treat one of her partners under pressure
could you say more about why her treatment of rej is different than her treatment of mac?
even though mac was not the topic of conversation in the game, esooa directly brought him up and called out several people for scumreading him and for not realizing that he was ~obvious town~ doing a sick wifom strategy by staying lowkey. when esooa interacted with mac, she was focused on getting her to townread him and getting in his good graces

on the other hand, esooa ignored rej for the entirety of the game, and then suddenly outed a fairly confident townread on him when he became the topic of conversation, while still playing lip service to the idea that he ~could~ be mafia

it feels like the difference between an attempt to pocket a player that she wanted to trick vs defending someone with a specific agenda
sorry what are you saying?

that esooa wanted to pocket you

Poison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:28 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:24 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:04 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:39 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:33 am Hey, I just pinned that Rej post in my ISO with the intention of circling back later.
you know what they say about great minds
I basically have nothing new to add RE: esooa & rej. I was just going to ask for opinions on that big post, because I could go either way on it. How confident would you be with the suggestion that that was esooa shielding a teammate?
i would not bank on it with any level of confidence

the main thing that pushes me to feel that way is the fact that esooa outrighted ignored rej for the entire game ~until~ the pressure against him started to pick up a little bit more momentum - then she suddenly started outing a fairly confident defense of rej while still playing lip service to my suspicions of him. if she didn't out her read on rej ~until~ he was being pressured, then it implies to me that she probably had a specific agenda behind doing it. the agenda could have just been to try to TMI someone as town for towncred, in theory, but the way that she seemed particularly invested in hearing what i thought about her rej read (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=738501#p738501) made me feel like she was subtly doing it to get me to back off of rej

it aligns fairly well with how i would expect esooa to treat one of her partners under pressure
I see. I have played with rej more than a few times, let's see if I can try to figure out anything from his iso. Did he talk about me though? he should.

he did. he gave a warning early on that if you were disengaged with the game, you were playing within your scum meta and should be watched out for (iirc)

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:27 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:24 am i would not bank on it with any level of confidence

the main thing that pushes me to feel that way is the fact that esooa outrighted ignored rej for the entire game ~until~ the pressure against him started to pick up a little bit more momentum - then she suddenly started outing a fairly confident defense of rej while still playing lip service to my suspicions of him. if she didn't out her read on rej ~until~ he was being pressured, then it implies to me that she probably had a specific agenda behind doing it. the agenda could have just been to try to TMI someone as town for towncred, in theory, but the way that she seemed particularly invested in hearing what i thought about her rej read (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=738501#p738501) made me feel like she was subtly doing it to get me to back off of rej

it aligns fairly well with how i would expect esooa to treat one of her partners under pressure
could you say more about why her treatment of rej is different than her treatment of mac?

even though mac was not the topic of conversation in the game, esooa directly brought him up and called out several people for scumreading him and for not realizing that he was ~obvious town~ doing a sick wifom strategy by staying lowkey. when esooa interacted with mac, she was focused on getting her to townread him and getting in his good graces

on the other hand, esooa ignored rej for the entirety of the game, and then suddenly outed a fairly confident townread on him when he became the topic of conversation, while still playing lip service to the idea that he ~could~ be mafia

it feels like the difference between an attempt to pocket a player that she wanted to trick vs defending someone with a specific agenda

im only half reading the game rn while i do some chores, but i want to point out that i think jack's townread on me might be TMI, lol. it was part of the reason i was concerned about him yesterday

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:04 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:39 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:33 am Hey, I just pinned that Rej post in my ISO with the intention of circling back later.
you know what they say about great minds
I basically have nothing new to add RE: esooa & rej. I was just going to ask for opinions on that big post, because I could go either way on it. How confident would you be with the suggestion that that was esooa shielding a teammate?

i would not bank on it with any level of confidence

the main thing that pushes me to feel that way is the fact that esooa outrighted ignored rej for the entire game ~until~ the pressure against him started to pick up a little bit more momentum - then she suddenly started outing a fairly confident defense of rej while still playing lip service to my suspicions of him. if she didn't out her read on rej ~until~ he was being pressured, then it implies to me that she probably had a specific agenda behind doing it. the agenda could have just been to try to TMI someone as town for towncred, in theory, but the way that she seemed particularly invested in hearing what i thought about her rej read (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=738501#p738501) made me feel like she was subtly doing it to get me to back off of rej

it aligns fairly well with how i would expect esooa to treat one of her partners under pressure

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:33 am Hey, I just pinned that Rej post in my ISO with the intention of circling back later.

you know what they say about great minds

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:33 am
Rej wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:18 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:30 pm i have two townreads but im not gonna say who yet = )
Heya, here to play some low effort, this is the first post that pinged me. I personally don't like posts like this because they are confusing as heck. This could be the most unneccessary soft claim, or this could be a bait, or this could be anything.
I always ask myself why a town should do this, the last time I saw someone do this they ended up masons with someone and they got lynched.

Anyone beat me to this.

Also I see Long Con and KZA are voted currently. I feel whenever I play here Long Con gets voted somehow. Will drop my opinions once I am cought up.
So, this post is kinda weird. He says here and in a lot of other places here's here to play some low effort, as well as just sounding not so comfortable with his reads

If he's a wolf here, he's very self conscious, and uncomfortable in thread

Rej wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:03 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:25 pm
Rej wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:18 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:30 pm i have two townreads but im not gonna say who yet = )
Heya, here to play some low effort, this is the first post that pinged me. I personally don't like posts like this because they are confusing as heck. This could be the most unneccessary soft claim, or this could be a bait, or this could be anything.
I always ask myself why a town should do this, the last time I saw someone do this they ended up masons with someone and they got lynched.

Anyone beat me to this.

Also I see Long Con and KZA are voted currently. I feel whenever I play here Long Con gets voted somehow. Will drop my opinions once I am cought up.
So looks like Rej is Maf
nah, I am the towniest town to ever town through this town

► Show Spoiler

But then we have posts like this

Rej wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:10 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:23 pm Rej probably a wolf for that opening gif.

I’m really good at mafia fyi.
cmon pal, since when are opening gifs scummy? this triggers me, they are part of a Rej with positive mindset
and this

Which sounds *very* genuine to me, and give off really towny vibes in a unique way and specifically contrary to the mindset I believe wolf!Rej would have made his earlier posts with. He sounds unsure of himself based on needing to repeat he's going to slank; but these townyness he feels he has isn't awkward, it's not forced or overblown, it's very natural and not unsure/worried! So, I think he's town

^^on the other hand, this DOES look potentially like w/w interaction

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:07 am btw I'd like everyone who thinks Mac is scum to say so right now

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:30 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:27 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:25 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:24 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:23 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:23 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:23 am

are you scum?
no
would ur answer change if I told you I was
no
I think you're scum
why
cause mac low posting is blatantly to avoid being NK'd and he's done it before

He has no reason to low post as scum

So you scum reading that and not actually thinking about his posts is kinda weird

esooa likes to powerwolf and shield her partners

but it's usually done in a more subtle way (ie: shading one of her partners while still fiercely protecting them at the same time)

in this case, esooa brought a ton of attention to the people scumreading mac, and then outed a very specific meta reason for mac to be town as a way to defend him. i think that this was esooa trying to get into mac's good graces by outing a "detailed" read about him, and we can see esooa's desire to get mac to townread her reflected in her final posts before the day ended (around here: (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=738710#p738710)

^^the interaction in that whole exchange is just generally a little flat too - esooa is trying to engage with mac and mac is giving short, blunt replies that indicate he doesnt particularly want to get a read on esooa in that moment

it's just generally not how i think they would approach each other if they were teamed. there would be more "oomph" to it

i dont think mac/esooa are partnered

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:50 pm Ya’ll ever save a bunch of wrestling gifs and you wanna use them in mafia games but they’re all overreactions and your actual feelings are more subtle?

I’m like that all the time.

this is me with anime gifs, tbh

i think tonystarkprime is town

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:14 pm well, it bothers me because our reads on c4 were so synchronized up until that point - my concern was that your read on c4 fluctuated because you wanted to fit in with the consensus of the thread, which is something i could see scum!sloonei doing but not really see town!sloonei doing

i dont think this makes you lock mafia - it is a concern. and it is a concern that spiraled into more concern when our initial exchange ended up with you voting for me

you can correct me if i'm wrong, but i remember you saying that you tend to struggle/get frustrated by pressure when you're town. i don't want to put you in the position of feeling like your scumhunting is being interrupted by my pressure on you, but i do want to work with you to gain a mutual understanding today. i do not like our current dynamic, and i am struggling to us being unable to find each other when we're both town for this long, as much as i would like it to be true. i want to figure that out today
I think you are overvaluing the weight I gave to my concern about c4. I simply lost some confidence in my town read on him. He never became a suspect for me.

I am not currently engaged in any scum hunting, so I'm not being distracted. I do have a few things I want to look at but I'm hungry and a little tired so I haven't started on that yet. Jack's the one who said I struggle when I'm pressured as town.

I recommend not worrying about me for like 24 hours, if you can stomach that. I'm kind of just in a deflated mood so I'm not gonna be my best for a bit, but I never stay grumpy for more than a couple hours, so I'll be back to my normal self later. Take a fresh look at me after some more things have happened. I'll take my vote off you as well.

i'm in a bit of a grumpy mood too, so it's possible that we just got off on the wrong foot

i'll take a step back as well and we can reconnect later

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:05 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:00 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:55 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:51 pm this line of reasoning makes sense to me on a certain level, but i would find it more easy to swallow if you didn't carry such an underlying level of confidence that the c4 slot was town up until that point

and the fact that you appear to bre voting me for questioning you about an understandably difficult to believe progression is not doing very much to help me believe that your reads are coming from a pure place
It was Day 1, c4 is someone I've never met before, and he played weird. I thought he looked very good early on, but his response to pressure was a concern. It made me question my read.

I am voting you because I have been unsure about the validity of this concern, and I never got a comfortable sense that you were town on Day 1.
this was my first game with c4 as well (i believe). i agreed with you that he was acting weird, and i actually mentioned at some point on d1 that i was struggling to defend my townread on him when he was playing in such a self-defeating way

even so, i felt the emotion that he was giving out in the specific exchange with alison that you're referencing was actually town-indicative - i pointed it out at the exact moment it happened, so you can know that i'm not making up that read to make my suspicion of you more legitimate

from my point of view, d1 progressed like this:

me and you both start out hard townreading c4, who drops a number of strong towntells throughout early d1. as the momentum on c4 increases and he becomes the leading wagon, i continue to townlean c4, and you appear to drop your townlean on c4 for reasons that i struggle to really understand/rationalize. (again, the specific thing that you found suspicious from c4 is the exact thing that i found towny)

after seeing c4 flip town, i immediately come into today being worried about the fact that our reads on c4 had diverged in such a dramatic fashion - especially since you had seemed more certain about c4 being town than i was for a good portion of d1

again, if you are playing from a town mindset, i struggle to understand why my concern about you is something that you're having a hard time grasping. it seems pretty clear to me, even if you feel that your progression on c4 is perfectly justifiable
You will note that I never ended up voting for c4. I had concerns about him. I never outright scum read him. I voted for BoKnows. He was town too.

Your initial statement of concern about my c4 read looked like a straight misunderstanding of my words. It no longer feels that way, but I still am not sure I see why this is a concern to you. I understand what you are saying, but I don't know why you think any of this might mean that I am mafia.

I also am just kind of annoyed at this game right now.

well, it bothers me because our reads on c4 were so synchronized up until that point - my concern was that your read on c4 fluctuated because you wanted to fit in with the consensus of the thread, which is something i could see scum!sloonei doing but not really see town!sloonei doing

i dont think this makes you lock mafia - it is a concern. and it is a concern that spiraled into more concern when our initial exchange ended up with you voting for me

you can correct me if i'm wrong, but i remember you saying that you tend to struggle/get frustrated by pressure when you're town. i don't want to put you in the position of feeling like your scumhunting is being interrupted by my pressure on you, but i do want to work with you to gain a mutual understanding today. i do not like our current dynamic, and i am struggling to us being unable to find each other when we're both town for this long, as much as i would like it to be true. i want to figure that out today

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:55 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:51 pm this line of reasoning makes sense to me on a certain level, but i would find it more easy to swallow if you didn't carry such an underlying level of confidence that the c4 slot was town up until that point

and the fact that you appear to bre voting me for questioning you about an understandably difficult to believe progression is not doing very much to help me believe that your reads are coming from a pure place
It was Day 1, c4 is someone I've never met before, and he played weird. I thought he looked very good early on, but his response to pressure was a concern. It made me question my read.

I am voting you because I have been unsure about the validity of this concern, and I never got a comfortable sense that you were town on Day 1.

this was my first game with c4 as well (i believe). i agreed with you that he was acting weird, and i actually mentioned at some point on d1 that i was struggling to defend my townread on him when he was playing in such a self-defeating way

even so, i felt the emotion that he was giving out in the specific exchange with alison that you're referencing was actually town-indicative - i pointed it out at the exact moment it happened, so you can know that i'm not making up that read to make my suspicion of you more legitimate

from my point of view, d1 progressed like this:

me and you both start out hard townreading c4, who drops a number of strong towntells throughout early d1. as the momentum on c4 increases and he becomes the leading wagon, i continue to townlean c4, and you appear to drop your townlean on c4 for reasons that i struggle to really understand/rationalize. (again, the specific thing that you found suspicious from c4 is the exact thing that i found towny)

after seeing c4 flip town, i immediately come into today being worried about the fact that our reads on c4 had diverged in such a dramatic fashion - especially since you had seemed more certain about c4 being town than i was for a good portion of d1

again, if you are playing from a town mindset, i struggle to understand why my concern about you is something that you're having a hard time grasping. it seems pretty clear to me, even if you feel that your progression on c4 is perfectly justifiable

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:49 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:45 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:41 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:01 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:46 pm what happened to your read on foresight?
He reads like he wants to die, and his volatility doesn't make sense to me. I have been reading him as Frustrated Town In A New Environment, and a big part of me still sees it that way, but there is also a part of me that thinks he's mafia who does not believe he is capable of overcoming the early pressure he has faced, and so he has tried to draw as much attention to himself to keep us from identifying any of his partners too easily. I didn't think any of the things he said to/about Alison made sense last night, for instance.
Like, I am unclear on why you suggest you need to look into this more, or why this post is unclear. This is a pretty straightforward summary of my progression on c4 from the start of Day 1 to the end. He was town, then he looked like wanted to die, and the best way I could make sense of that was in a world where he was mafia, but I otherwise read him as town.

at staypositivefriend
i struggle to understand how your progression went from: "c4 is hard town" to "c4 wants to die, so he might just be scum drawing attention away from his partners". that seems like a pretty big leap in logic for you to take, especially given how confident you were about c4 being town up until that point

perhaps it stems from the fact that the meta on my homesite is full of players that constantly ask to die - and it's almost never inherently scum-indicative behavior (if anything, it's usually town indicative). for you to take something as simple as: "this player is frustrated and wants to die" and use it as reasoning to back off of one of your strongest townreads is a progression that i have a lot of trouble connecting with

and even if you justify your progression to me, surely you can understand why i found it puzzling in the first place! the fact that you're acting like it's suspicious for me to ask you about this is fairly baffling to me
Because when I say he "wanted to die" I do not mean that he had given up on the game. It looked like he wanted to die, but was acting like he was still fighting. He was saying his chop was inevitable (it wasn't) but that he wanted to keep working on clearing people, and he was continuing to fight with people, but all of it looked staged and, I felt, over the top. He "wanted to die" in the sense that he was trying to set his teammates up to not be linked to him moving forward.

this line of reasoning makes sense to me on a certain level, but i would find it more easy to swallow if you didn't carry such an underlying level of confidence that the c4 slot was town up until that point

and the fact that you appear to bre voting me for questioning you about an understandably difficult to believe progression is not doing very much to help me believe that your reads are coming from a pure place

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:41 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:01 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:46 pm what happened to your read on foresight?
He reads like he wants to die, and his volatility doesn't make sense to me. I have been reading him as Frustrated Town In A New Environment, and a big part of me still sees it that way, but there is also a part of me that thinks he's mafia who does not believe he is capable of overcoming the early pressure he has faced, and so he has tried to draw as much attention to himself to keep us from identifying any of his partners too easily. I didn't think any of the things he said to/about Alison made sense last night, for instance.
Like, I am unclear on why you suggest you need to look into this more, or why this post is unclear. This is a pretty straightforward summary of my progression on c4 from the start of Day 1 to the end. He was town, then he looked like wanted to die, and the best way I could make sense of that was in a world where he was mafia, but I otherwise read him as town.

at staypositivefriend

i struggle to understand how your progression went from: "c4 is hard town" to "c4 wants to die, so he might just be scum drawing attention away from his partners". that seems like a pretty big leap in logic for you to take, especially given how confident you were about c4 being town up until that point

perhaps it stems from the fact that the meta on my homesite is full of players that constantly ask to die - and it's almost never inherently scum-indicative behavior (if anything, it's usually town indicative). for you to take something as simple as: "this player is frustrated and wants to die" and use it as reasoning to back off of one of your strongest townreads is a progression that i have a lot of trouble connecting with

and even if you justify your progression to me, surely you can understand why i found it puzzling in the first place! the fact that you're acting like it's suspicious for me to ask you about this is fairly baffling to me

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:38 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:37 pm and more importantly, you dont townread me when i should be incredibly clearly threadspewed as town. i don't feel that i'm speaking from a place of ego when i say that - it just seems obvious at this point
How so?

it feels less obvious if i have to explain it

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:33 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:32 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:30 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:29 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:24 pm [VOTE: spf] aubergine
you would almost certainly be townreading me right now if you were town
So would you.
i have townread you for the vast majority of the game. your inability to find my alignment even as i become more clearly threadspewed town and the way that you're responding to my concerns about c4 makes me feel generally uneasy
Your “concerns about c4” stem from things I never said.

regardless of whether or not that's true, (i still need to investigate your progression on c4 in general), the way that you engaged with me felt more deflective than inquisitive

and more importantly, you dont townread me when i should be incredibly clearly threadspewed as town. i don't feel that i'm speaking from a place of ego when i say that - it just seems obvious at this point

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:30 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:29 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:24 pm [VOTE: spf] aubergine
you would almost certainly be townreading me right now if you were town
So would you.

i have townread you for the vast majority of the game. your inability to find my alignment even as i become more clearly threadspewed town and the way that you're responding to my concerns about c4 makes me feel generally uneasy

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