The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:07 pm I see spec chat is all up in arms about some of my tactics.

To that I say. Meh. Get gud.

Glad everything is okay then.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:07 pm (Also this is why I kept telling everyone to preserve saves! No individual player outside of Nutella was worth saving until, like, 5 or 6 players alive)

This. But bygones. Nobody could trust anybody in early days.

I screwed this up somewhere. For sure.

Sorry guys. Gg all.

Was a blast and glad I did manage to get the team finally even if only when too late.

Any chance the last shot was going anywhere except Nutella?

I'm also ok ending early.

Sorry for the delay. Drafted a few ideas but decided they all might get me killed day 8 for even suggesting it.

Everyone save Nutella tonight. No self save. No flipping. No wifom.

Good luck us for day 8.

Tried to think of a way to get a day 9 shot as well but requires too much trust and would result in too much suspicion on me to be worth it.

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:58 pm

protocultures wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 am Even nights – 2 alien KP till 2.

hmn so proto thought this since his very first post
if it's acting it's very impressive

nobody corrected me, which sucks but I mean it didnt matter anyway at the point I thought it.

Carotenoid bothering to iso me to find things from my day 0 is like.. town doing work to solve imo.

Also I think Nutella might trust me for some math stuff but Nutella doesn't listen to me on reads. My reads have been garbage all game.

So instead of thinking I'm town with a bad read, you have totally flipped and are sure I am a wolf. You won't engage with me on the read. You def can't blame me in post in you are somehow town. Just putting this out there for postgame. Don't blame me either if you aren't an alien.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:03 am page 90 is literally just proto outing himself as wolf

if you don't see that and aren't willing to re-evaluate then don't put the blame on me when you end up losing the game. bye

I'm not an alien. I wouldn't blame anyone for anything this game. Aliens played well. I will say that.

If you are town please please please just post the links before you peace out.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:54 am So how do you like it here Proto?

I'm liking forum the most out of all formats. The people in syndicate are absurdly nice as well.

If I had one wish, it would be more games running on syndicate with open setups with claiming and info dumping allowed.

You probably just need to convert me into loving closed games.

Glad you got me to try forum [mention]MacDougall[/mention]

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:52 am You are probably right. I'm just throwing shit at the wall at this point.

It's really just Alison/Carot.

Nut will shoot Alison. If there is a tomorrow I'll try to not lose the game lol.

See ya.

Tomorrow is guaranteed unless I have really screwed up somewhere. Also DDL would have ended the game if aliens had auto. I assume so anyway.

I was also paranoid of Alison earlier for the slip re rolecard, weird meta dive into dizzy and Alison's weird flip townclear of epi. I decided to force myself to ignore it. I think that was a mistake.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:49 am Remember when Proto/Epi were tunneling each other for the first 3 days and that whole thing just disappeared. Pepperidge farm remembers.

It disappeared for reasons which felt organic to me from Epi's side. Not sure how Epi felt about me flipping my read on him.

Not sure how I could read him town in another game though. I know enough now not to scumread him for certain things though.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:46 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:43 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:42 am Fuck it shoot Epi. How is he not dead.

Wait what if it's Epi/Carot and she just lied about protecting him?

Omfg

Are you saying epi shoots Hally?

Lol why are you so obsessed with reading the whole game off the n1 kill?

The answer is almost surely no. I am just paranoid.

It's really useful when there is strongly established meta known by several people. It also reduces POE for me to solve since Nutella is never killing Epi anyway. We always lose to any team with Epi so no point looking at those worlds.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:42 am Fuck it shoot Epi. How is he not dead.

Wait what if it's Epi/Carot and she just lied about protecting him?

Omfg

Are you saying epi shoots Hally?

Nutella hasn't been tunnelled on Mac. Nutella said she was gonna shoot Alison.

[mention]nutella[/mention] can you request Alison to post links?

Someone else can comment on the posts if Alison prefers so I cannot be accused of twisting anything. It's literally a word search and knowing alignment to see if there is a trend of using wording more as one alignment than another.

I have seen Hally use "pure" a few times as well so it may just be a MU meta to use this word to describe reads. Again if Alison is town, it would help to just show us.

[mention]Alison[/mention] if you are town can you just link the prev games and reply to the line of queries from Epi?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:25 am I think Alison is outed but I cannot figure out which of the others is her partner. Nothing makes a great deal of sense.

Views on my pure read and sample size and Alison's refusal to provide links? Aggressiveness seems to have suddenly spiked through the roof.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:12 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:56 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:48 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:50 am I'm honestly not sure about the extent to which Mac has such a code though. On the one hand he does so much to welcome new members to our community and loves playing with new people, but on the other hand he is a hardcore player who will do what it takes to win, so I don't think I would put it past him to deliberately make that kill for the wifom. I also don't really think it's particularly productive to continue harping on this single sticking point because if he is an alien he will react to this post with incredulity and do his darndest to AtE me into clearing him.

Hally was lock town reading me iirc. That's the main reason you should be reading me town off that kill.

I would kill a new player if I had to. I didn't have to.

Iso on Hally shows they were not lock town reading you.

If you are in too many games and need a quick "clear", would killing Hally be something mafia Mac might do?

Man. If I wanted a kill to give me a quick "clear" I kill Dunya. The fact that Dunya never died here is a pretty strong indicator of my alignment.

You prev said Dunya was scum BECAUSE you are still alive and gave some weird reason I didn't follow. Why does killing Dunya clear you at all?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:09 am Right now the only thing I care about is showing nutella your true alignment so she shoots you and ends the game.

Pretty sure it would help Nutella to figure that out if you posted the links.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:19 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:16 pm Who is alien?

Is it me?

Is it Carotenoid?

Is it protocultures?

Is it Alison?

We're never getting there on you so no point.

Carot has felt very pure but Nutella was right about her EOD yesterday and opening here. I had the exact same thought.

I don't know what Proto's range is but I don't know if legit anyone has what he's done in his mafia range.

Alison is alien or we lose basically.

In the space of 2 hours, you go from scum reading me (last evidence from your post that my violin pic was "fake town") to being town. This type of progression is weird. Sorry Mac if you are town I still can't see it.

The delay or refusal to link previous games feels like you aren't going to show us or you are backtesting my theory currently to see if it holds any water and whether you need to plan a defence post before proving links.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:42 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:31 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:06 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:01 pm This last 2 weeks have been so bad irl and I've been like doing my best here and sort of trying to use mafia to take my mind off things and im just having a full meltdown no omg im sorry

...is this just town Mac?

Like, I believe AtE can come from scum in an endgame situation, but why here? All wolf Mac has to do is sit back and shrug his shoulders and shitpost while letting nutella kill me. Why does scum Mac fake a breakdown here, especially in such a manipulative way that it makes them look like a jerk for trying to tug on people's emotions postgame when they're revealed to be wolf and it becomes clear this was faked?

If your statement is true re Mac sitting back and watching you get lasered, why can't it be true for wolf proto sitting back and watch you get lasered? I don't need to flip my read on you at all and you don't even believe that.

Because you're gloating/rubbing it in. The whole way you played that was so fucking slimy and self-assured. You've been towncleared the whole game and you're getting cocky at endgame because you think you'll win. If nutella sees reason, you won't.

Mac is the opposite. He's genuinely upset, overwhelmed and having a breakdown. Frustration from missing a shot last night as wolf? Maybe, but the wolf team has to be in fine shape here if nutella is thinking of shooting me. I have a hard time imagining a wolf having a breakdown in this kind of way. It paints him as a manipulative player who's willing to fake the basest sort of emotion to gain sympathy by pretending he's hurting IRL, and that just makes people think badly of him and trust him less in future games for very little gain right now.

That is the difference between the actions between the two of you. Mac is town. You are scum.

I don't think you think I would gloat in the end game. We think too similarly. If I were to gloat, I would save it all for postgame. I would always lock down the win first.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:48 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:50 am I'm honestly not sure about the extent to which Mac has such a code though. On the one hand he does so much to welcome new members to our community and loves playing with new people, but on the other hand he is a hardcore player who will do what it takes to win, so I don't think I would put it past him to deliberately make that kill for the wifom. I also don't really think it's particularly productive to continue harping on this single sticking point because if he is an alien he will react to this post with incredulity and do his darndest to AtE me into clearing him.

Hally was lock town reading me iirc. That's the main reason you should be reading me town off that kill.

I would kill a new player if I had to. I didn't have to.

Iso on Hally shows they were not lock town reading you.

If you are in too many games and need a quick "clear", would killing Hally be something mafia Mac might do?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:06 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:01 pm This last 2 weeks have been so bad irl and I've been like doing my best here and sort of trying to use mafia to take my mind off things and im just having a full meltdown no omg im sorry

...is this just town Mac?

Like, I believe AtE can come from scum in an endgame situation, but why here? All wolf Mac has to do is sit back and shrug his shoulders and shitpost while letting nutella kill me. Why does scum Mac fake a breakdown here, especially in such a manipulative way that it makes them look like a jerk for trying to tug on people's emotions postgame when they're revealed to be wolf and it becomes clear this was faked?

If your statement is true re Mac sitting back and watching you get lasered, why can't it be true for wolf proto sitting back and watch you get lasered? I don't need to flip my read on you at all and you don't even believe that.

Let us backtest the theory. If you are in MU, you must have a library of previous forum games somewhere.

I don't need to agree on the read on Alison for Nutella to shoot Alison. Pretty sure that's... not a real thing.

Links to other games please that are finished if you have them so we can backrest the theory.

I mean I did preface this with "is this nonsense" but like.... It was enough to make me reconsider on you.

Do you have further games anywhere else we can look at to see if sample size caused a ridiculous conclusion?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:55 am

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:51 am Actually I don't think mac would kill a brand new player either Just as much as I wouldn't tbh. He does the impossible to get people to sign up and play games here.

Remove him. Rip my sanity.

I think Mac is towny on his own. I just think wifoming the kill, or any kill for that matter, is a pretty fruitless endeavour. I'm not positive, but I think Mac knows Hally at least a bit from specchat. Hally isn't some random new player. They are experienced, played in champ, and is known to quite a few here. It's not like Hally will feel unwelcome if they are killed N1. It's a complement. I don't know. Just my however many cents. NK analysis is rarely a great way to solve imo. Requires too many assumptions.

And I'm not saying believe me, I'm saying if you for some reason can't town read me then believe Hally.

[mention]nutella[/mention]

Who alive in the game has played in champs? I assume that is MU?

Didn't Mac say they met Hally in this game? Dizzy isn't sure but thinks Mac knows Hally from spec chat. I can't really work out the MU webpage very well but is it easy to check if Mac and Hally were talking in spec chat? Would Mac kill Hally if they were new to syndicate but not new to them? Would they don't for town credit?

I hate to ask this but for completeness, can Epi know Hally from MU? If yes, would this be allowed by Epi to kill Hally or does it not matter because they are new to syndicate?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:30 pm It's ok epi. I've been locked in on alison since yesterday. And I'm now pretty convinced mac is her partner

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:01 pm This last 2 weeks have been so bad irl and I've been like doing my best here and sort of trying to use mafia to take my mind off things and im just having a full meltdown no omg im sorry

Sorry to hear that dude.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:01 pm

protocultures wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:59 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:56 pm proto wild as hell

good wild or bad wild?

This kind of wild:

i havent read it all in depth to see if that is a phrase they specifically use to pocket town or townshield mafia yet

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:56 pm proto wild as hell

good wild or bad wild?

ISO from Alison in THIS game.

"This post feels pretty pure to me and is a HUGE step up in terms of post quality than before. Could be wolf!Mac stepping up because he's feeling the pressure after his teammate died, but given that he had a hand in Soneji's death, I don't buy my own theory." This is extract post from Alison.

"scum might express a similar sentiment to look good, but ham it up, dramatize about epi being a liability, etc. this tone is SUPER pure and is just straight "we should be working together. why aren't you?"

"protocultures - Just consistently the most transparent player in the game. Emotion feels pure when he has it and the Epi/proto tunnel felt like genuine stubbornness on a scumread (if horribly unproductive)."

"don't buy this case on proto. His posts are just super pure, even if you disagree with them (like the dizzy/dunya/tony/proto plan) and I think he just genuinely believes in them. I can connect with what he's saying on a lot of levels and I've had like a low level of mindmeld with him all game. Not in the sense that our reads are the same, but we're running on the same wavelength and thinking in the same processes (if that makes sense). I don't believe scum proto can simulate a mindmeld to that degree so consistently."

Am I crazy or is this like good?

first quote is from Alison in THIS game, not the MU game.

So Epi brought up an old post by Alison which just sent off alarm bells. Its small sample etc but its enough for me to flip my townread on Alison and reach consensus on Mac/Alison if it helps Nutella.

It may be totally bullshit and im reading something into nothing, but take a look at the below. I havent ISOed Alisons posts this game yet to check for number of times this happens.

Alison linked 3 games on MU. 2 maf games, 1 town game. Town game posts were short, but zero uses of the word "pure" to describe another player. Another mafia game, no use of the world "pure". However, this game https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/se ... st_3195899 in which Alison is mafia..


"This post feels pretty pure to me and is a HUGE step up in terms of post quality than before. Could be wolf!Mac stepping up because he's feeling the pressure after his teammate died, but given that he had a hand in Soneji's death, I don't buy my own theory." This is extract post from Alison.

"This reads as pure to me but I can't explain why so I'm just going to call this a gutread."

"lock town. pure as hell"

"funnygurl reads as kinda pure to me, but Crimson gives me a bad vibe, he has this sort of disengaged "rote" tone like he's just trying to get a set of goals accomplished rather than figure out the game. I've already discussed my light scumread on Kelp."

"Still trying to decide how I feel about crazee. elijah's posts come off very town tonally, but he can easily fake that as scum and the fact that he started the Kelp CW makes him my #1 suspect. Percy I read as town based off a pure post but Evan told me afterwards that's the tone he always has, + the tiebreaker vote wasn't the best. Wu is town off presuming Litten et al. is scum."

"I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about what alignments people are if you flip town because there's a very low chance in my eyes that you do. I can tell you that Percy's posts feel kinda pure/genuine to me, so if you are town I'm not necessarily eyeing his behavior as a pocket. Why do you ask about Percy specifically?"

"So what makes crazee's posts more scummy than funnygurl's to you? Are you implying you scumread funnygurl for the presence on Kelp wagon? Because I can tell you that I think funnygurl's tone is super pure and that she is very unlikely to be mafia in my eyes."

"This feels like town. Tone is pure, and scum Percy here can easily make up reasons to townread Litten."

"I'm willing to put in Marluxion and elijah as lock town right now. Marluxion's emotion and rage at D2 is really pure and difficult to fake in my view, and elijah has absolutely no reason to practically murder his scumbuddy during D2 when he could have easily coasted by on a Litten or Wu push."

"Essentially, all three of you have very pure tone and motivation. elijah tends to be a lot more laid back and go with the flow as scum and his aggressive pushes here are more indicative of his town play. He also made pushes that were unecessary - he could have let Litten get easy wagoned without taking any blame D1, let Wu die and wash his hands of the blame D2, etc. I can't see why scum would do this."

I flip on Alison actuallly.

Am I allowed to post extracts from Alisons MU games?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:59 pm God what if it's alison proto though


I mean they would absolutely deserve that win lol

been hard townreading eachother all game.

I might be the hapless fool who has been pocketed, but I am not an alien.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:57 pm

protocultures wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:54 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:40 pm Look, I'll go deeper if requested, but I am fine calling Carotenoid a civilian here.

you are still on Mac is Alien though, right?

What are my alternatives if I am not?

Carot/Alison

But I think im okay losing to that pair.

I'm also okay losing to any pair with you.

Its Mac/Carotenoid or Mac/Alison to me, but god have I have wrong a lot this game.

nobody dying last night makes it harder for Nutella to shoot correctly today, but its actually the best result for us in the long run.

Just putting that out there.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:40 pm Look, I'll go deeper if requested, but I am fine calling Carotenoid a civilian here.

you are still on Mac is Alien though, right?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:08 pm I declare a gif war. All players post nothing but gifs all phase and the person who makes nutella laugh the least gets shot.

found the alien

In case we lose this night phase

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:27 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:12 am Can't decide between Alison and Carotenoid.
It's almost always Mac plus one to me.

This morning I woke up with the notion that Alsion's attack on Carotenoid was staged. I talked about how aggressive Alison was compared to how calm Carotenoid was, and the idea entered my head that it was a put on by the both of them. If one gets shot, the other carries on to victory.

I mean, Carotenoid is always calm though. I think.

Im okay clearing Epi and not thinking about it because

Can't decide between Alison and Carotenoid.
It's almost always Mac plus one to me.

So I looked through TSP plan in more detail and think its really good. I still cant prove its the best solution, but looks pretty damn good.

Basically you need to actually actually actually follow the plan. I cannot stress this enough. Flip an actual coin. You NEVER save someone else other than yourself or Nutella. You dont know who is an actual bunker. The only way to ensure a save goes on a bunker or Nutella is you only save yourself or Nutella. Using a bunker save on someone you think is a bunker but is actually an alien is a disaster. Do not be fancy and holster. This is probaby the most crucial night as to our win % until the end of the game either way.

Your saves must be impossible for aliens to discern and we need a distribution of saves on ourselves and Nutella. We do not NEED 2 saves on Nutella since we might not GET 2KP on Nutella. Aliens can get auto without killing Nutella. This is another key point I want to stress.

We need a bit of luck in all future night phases anyway to win, assuming we hit alien day 7. If we dont hit alien day 7, it doesnt matter we always lose.

We do instantly lose around half the time due to what happens tonight. You just need to accept that.

If you do not do this and bias the saves to Nutella, we almost always lose anyway. You accept risk now to maximise chances of winning later. Its like hitting 16 vs dealer 10. Yeah it sucks, but it sucks worse to not hit.

I realise some of you cant trust me. Dont blame you. Trust TSP. They flipped town. They told you to stick to the plan.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:26 pm this plan is also as fps proof as I can make it. please don't try anything except Proto I guess I trust Proto.

Proto can confirm this works I hope because I hope it works

Some of you may run out of saves at some point. Do not announce it. Do not announce saves remaining. Do not announce who you saved. Its all wifom to Nutella. They just have to make the best shot they can every day phase. Its really bad if aliens can work out who has how many saves left and who has none left.

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:59 pm i'm
AAAAAAAAAAAAH
is it proto or is it mac
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
orfjierjnferojfiwjfwe

wait, what? You are off alison now or just trying to find a partner for Alison?

Also you are gonna have to convince us why you clear mac. Did you also never sus Dunya to the same extent?

Do you also not sus Epi?