The Syndicate

SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:32 pm I would caution against using claims as clearing at most levels as on SDN we often have designs to combat this - mods providing fakeclaims for wolves, giving traditional town roles to wolves and vice versa, and otherwise messing with "expected" mechanics. Not saying it may not be useful, but should be interpreted with caution.

I'm also still tinfoiling that we have two separate scum factions. Since sdn plays werewolf and syndicats play mafia, I was thinking we might have wolves (were animals) and mafia in this game rather than 3p/sk as the other faction

SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:59 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:57 pm Game is worryingly quiet tbh. If we have a mid game lull and the people not posting are mostly town this will go pear shaped pretty quick.
And here I was thinking wow I might actually have a chance to read all of today haha

im more confident in SAR town, she's pretty relaxed

@Lawpy there are no fruit vendors in the base roles provided in the OP

so thats your community role

whats your base role?

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:25 am its not impossible marmot was the even-night town vig that shot falcon

nvm it is impossible since neon roleblocked them n2

Dennis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:40 am Also why are you confident im town

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:02 am i think dennis is very easy to read too. im employing a new strategy:

if dennis cares about looking towny, he's mafia

if dennis doesnt care about looking towny, he's town

i iso'd him and he seems to not care particularly, ergo i think he's town

Dennis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:39 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:38 am
Dennis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:38 am Alright I give up idk what to do anymore

I spent day 1 and 2 defending the only 2 flipped mafia

I've got like no real scumreads anymore

AND ENGLISH STARTS IN 3 MINUTES AND I DONT WANNA GO

Someone help
im confident ur town, vote genny with me
Okay, but why if you don't mind [VOTE: genny] aubergine

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:39 am genny:

-hasnt shown signs of being town. i dont think anyone townreads her unless i missed it

-was suspected by PSV who was killed last night

-is a SDNer who are making up a big (or all) portion of the remaining wolves due to PSV and not Mac/Sloonei dying last night

-didnt express curiosity / care / interest at why i'm scumreading her yesterday

-TMI'd mayo town during a timeframe in which Mayo wasn't obv town, (he was PoE at the time), and her reasons for townreading Mayo was seen as sketchy, not just by me, but by PSV too

Dennis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:38 am Alright I give up idk what to do anymore

I spent day 1 and 2 defending the only 2 flipped mafia

I've got like no real scumreads anymore

AND ENGLISH STARTS IN 3 MINUTES AND I DONT WANNA GO

Someone help

im confident ur town, vote genny with me

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:28 am My one issue is that there are enough safe fakeclaims that there really isn't that much info we can squeeze out of claims.

unless i misunderstood, almost every role leaves a feedback via their night action

and if they fake claim a tracking/motion detector - esque role - well - they still would be forced to make a believable night report

the mafia poisoner and the mafia janitor have no safe fakeclaims (unless their community role, which seems to be similar to the base roles, sometimes) - unless that lets them forge a fakeclaim

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:28 amIs it simply to limit the ability of suspected people to fakeclaim things later?

yeah, and also take advantage of the loud (confirmable) night actions

i.e a lot of roles leave feedback that they normally dont

so its a rare advantage to confirm them

for instance neon is confirmed roleblocker by dennis. her claim is believable and made her towny

so forcing ppl to claim not just to attack the scum but it might also help find town

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:17 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:50 am so whats our consensus scumreads? Lawpy? Is genny in there too, or is it just me?

Do u guys agree with forcing (whoever it is there) to claim their roles?
i think forcing people to claim in a semi-open setup with loud (confirmable) night actions (and no anti-claim mechanic) is extremely good

very rare to have this opportunity to abuse the system in a mafia game. i dont see a drawback

games are easily broken by claiming, i an attest to this as a host while trying to design my games

jay said "please solve the players not the host" in the OP but i dont believe him

i *know* how hard it is to make games unbreakable by claiming

they*

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:25 am its not impossible marmot was the even-night town vig that shot falcon

so thats why they killed him and janitored him, as mac suggested

its not impossible marmot was the even-night town vig that shot falcon

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:20 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:10 am i guess its not impossible for marmot to be main pack wolf and be vigged and janitoredd by another main pack wolf

but this is a really bad play from the mafia

but mafia sometimes makes bad plays. i dunno lol
If the main mafia pack poisoned me and factional killed Marmot and janitored it would that be so strange?

He had Falcon in his scumreads and was pretty content with offing Creature. Maybe Marmot and I were just strictly threatening them more than others and they chose to kill him specifically BECAUSE they could janitor it and keep people presuming he was mafia instead of evaluating in town Marmot worlds or letting him have another day.

Hell maybe they rolecopped him n1 and found out he was some hectic role too.

yeah very reasonable

i think marmot is ... not guaranteed town, but i think more likely to be town than not

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:50 am so whats our consensus scumreads? Lawpy? Is genny in there too, or is it just me?

Do u guys agree with forcing (whoever it is there) to claim their roles?

i think forcing people to claim in a semi-open setup with loud (confirmable) night actions (and no anti-claim mechanic) is extremely good

very rare to have this opportunity to abuse the system in a mafia game. i dont see a drawback

i guess its not impossible for marmot to be main pack wolf and be vigged and janitoredd by another main pack wolf

but this is a really bad play from the mafia

but mafia sometimes makes bad plays. i dunno lol

so whats our consensus scumreads? Lawpy? Is genny in there too, or is it just me?

Do u guys agree with forcing (whoever it is there) to claim their roles?

i dont think there are anti-claim mechanics (soup kill) since the possibility of those existing would have been warned in the OP i'd think

so we could force the consensus scumreads to claim, maybe it could help

especially when semi-open setup and loud confirmable night actions

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:40 am probably no duplicate roles? i havent seen anyone flip a duplicate role

nvm there's an odd-night and even-night town vig

there aren't any roles in this game that aren't this: (excluding community roles)

Spoiler: show

32 in total if i counted right

probably no duplicate roles? i havent seen anyone flip a duplicate role

my role is also on this list

also i remember jay said the game isnt solvable by mass claim because any alignment could have randed any base role

so i really dont think nate *should* be townread by default from his role

townread him if u want to, but its just not mech clearing imo

antidote carrier - may cure poison

poisoner - can deliver a delayed kill

the second one is what killed zedge and what is trying to kill mac

if anyone is poison healer please heal mac

From the OP

broadcaster - may submit a post, with restrictions, to the hosts to be posted during a locked night phase

Okay this was in the base roles. So Nate's base role is confirmed. I dont think its guaranteed to be town but at least hes not that threatening ie hes not the poisoner or janitor etc

Also look:

janitor - can select a player being killed to have their role hidden from public view and revealed only to the killing faction

Janitors are a thing, it was a base role

Marmot wasnt mafia, unless there are multiple mafia teams

Im hesitant to townread Nate due to his role. What if its a community role, and his base role is something else? Let me check OP again i think jay made a list of potential either base or community roles

honestly neon hard claiming without pressure put on her is towny af @MacDougall

she wont be able to be very invested in this game due to other obligations, so she just wanted to not be a liability

(full posts snipped)

genny wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:04 pm there's a glimpse of him solving here, and i know it's not much, but that's what you get with mayo. this is how i read him last game, you're welcome to use it in the future.

genny wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:50 pm But I will say that Mayo sounds like village!mayo to me. he's being open and forthcoming with the little bit of info he gives out, which is not a feeling i get when he's wolfing.

to me this just feels like blatant TMI from a wolf struggling to make a convincing read; the intention was to just put out a townread on mayo, justifying it was secondary

genny:

-hasnt shown signs of being town. i dont think anyone townreads her unless i missed it

-was suspected by PSV who was killed last night

-is a SDNer who are making up a big (or all) portion of the remaining wolves due to PSV and not Mac/Sloonei dying last night

-didnt express curiosity / care / interest at why i'm scumreading her yesterday

-TMI'd mayo town during a timeframe in which Mayo wasn't obv town, (he was PoE at the time), and her reasons for townreading Mayo was seen as sketchy, not just by me, but by PSV too

Neon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:59 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:28 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:27 pm Are we allowed to claim in this set up?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:41 pm 4. It is legal to claim roles and to reveal role-related information publicly.

Sick I'm just gonna full claim I am night 1 and 2 compulsory roleblocker

Blocked Dennis n1 and Marmot last night

I am now essentially vanilla

Neon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:59 pm I also think Dennis can confirm this

@Dennis did you receive an ambiguous message telling u u were roleblocked n1?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:46 pm I think probably my preference is creature > marmot > falcon > genny > Miranda (?)

[VOTE: genny] aubergine

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:03 pm Hmm
Creature/Dennis/falcon/genny/Miranda(mayo?)
Sure.

we should kill genny soon

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:36 pm Not really feeling Creature but Scotty doesn't really need my vote atp.. mm..

sussy wussy

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:37 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:10 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:20 pm Everyone has received a special broadcast!

Sloonei w

Anyway, here's some music to vibe to:

Is this mech or a read?
VCA. I was thinking w!Sloonei would make w!falcon less likely though, so I need to recalibrate with the other flips.

you're hard claiming right? (see my post above)

am i tripping or did nate hard claim this role that writes these anonymous announcements during the night that get revealed at start of day

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:26 am Tutuu these confident townreads you're making don't appear to factor in the argument these people can be genuinely hunting for mafia and not be town.

well rip

i think lowering quality of townreads to account for 3p doesnt generally lead to good outcome. im fine with townreading 3p for now

also dont worry mac i was also going to come in tunneling PSV today lol

also im officially retiring my patented but failed buttell

the buttell was wrong on PSV and if Mayo as town (very likely) it's also wrong on him

RIP buttell

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:41 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:36 pm @Marmot , Also voting for Creature, meh. Suspecting Creature before switching off him and never looking back, meh.

We all voted all over each other in GOC. I won't clear anyone I was teammates with in that game for suspecting, then unsuspecting, or voting, then unvoting someone. As I would expect you should never clear me for it. We all got Greyhound top passenger miles for that game, lol.

Also, your reasons were proven bullshit when you backed off Creature becasue he had time restraints, then when he came back, you stayed off of him. And I expanded the time frame becasue YOU were quibbling about the last five minutes. It was longer than that, and you replied to both of them towards EOD.

I think you had TMI on Creatures time issues, and used it as an excuse. I call shenanigans, my rodent friend.
confident SVS town, kate likes to use the word "fire", SVS can be safely colored dark green

@MacDougall

i saw the words "bullshit" and capitalized "YOU" and i felt confident (also make sure u dont skip on reading my line in the post - about kate)

also she hates wolfing, and i had the thought that people who already hate wolfing will hate it even more here when half the game is strangers. like creature

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:01 am Tutuu can you use your anime girl powers to soulread Neon for me.

town

she kept making depressive emo posts in wolf chat in my game. she hated playing it. she said she didnt want to rand mafia for another 6 months

she felt relieved/relaxed, to me, in her fluff posts d0 here

i also think i have a secret towntell on her that i dont think she exhibited in my game, but i think she exhibited it in all of her town games that ive seen. but i could be wrong. im yet to face her wolf as a player with no TMI so this isnt concrete yet. its an experimental weapon in alpha stages of prototyping

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:00 am I don't think Miranda and MR7 are wolves tbh I just brought them up to make sure you had thought about them genuinely. I think you did so that's good.

Miranda is being shielded by SAR as well which I think is a good look for both of them. I think Miranda is someone a wolf SAR would be pushing here as an easy miselim and probably wouldn't be shielding if w/w cuz the rest of the SDNers would be skeptical.

alright, not sure if i buy into townreading SAR for this, but i buy into townreading miranda more due to this

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:53 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:27 am lawpy, genny, nate, santy, SAR

any reason at all to townread these slots?

only thing i come up with is nate putting in a lot of effort and santy having good tone. my reason for townreading lawpy was tunneling sloonei in a *hold my hands over my ears lalalalala* way
Lawpy has like ... sounded sincere and dya wasn't like wolfy sounding. Yay.

genny like ... null.

Nate is solvy and defensive in a towny way. Didn't seem to know Creature had a post restrictor role.

Creature tried to push Santy when he wasn't around d1.

SAR kinda buried Falcon d2 in a non partnery way. Just sheeping Zenge. Didn't feel teammy at all.

I think there's a pretty good chance this is a list you wrote in wolfchat and labelled "potential miselims". Why is Miranda and MR7 not in your list here?

alright thanks

i think if i ignore my reads and i try to think of the thread consensus reads, dennis, miranda, mr7 also fall in this "potential miselims" category as in - those people are facing scrutiny

miranda i have really dumb reasons to townread and i felt like holding onto them coz frankly its funny. but i can take it serious and not do that. one of the n1 town kills had her as town, i never checked if AM did. in my mind that was like - sheep dead SDN town on miranda town - i had this thought

mr7 i thought is town due to the post restriction given by creature. or falcon. or whoever it was, a wolf

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:50 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:49 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:46 am
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:33 am I'll also point out this VC from earlier in D1:

miranda - 4 (Sporty, Wilgy/tutuu, santy, Scotty)
Dennis - 2 (AM, Neon)
Nate - 2 (falcon, Creature)
Zenge - 1 (Nate)
AM - 1 (Seanzie)
falcon - 1 (Zenge)
Sporty - 1 (pyxxy)
Marmot - 1 (Sloonei)
what is your conclusion from it?
Hes trying to highlight that two wolves voted him. Defending himself from me.
oh lol

i dont think 2 wolves voting u early day 1 is the most cromulent of arguments for why ur town

in fact falcon and creature being those exact wolves makes nate scummier, if anything

falcon seems like he relied on bussing/distancing this game a lot

iirc creature relies on similar methods. scum!creature is the sacrificial-lamb-try-to-spew-partners-town type of wolf, not the power-wolf-type-of-wolf

especially if nate is bringing it up as a defense

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:49 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:46 am
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:33 am I'll also point out this VC from earlier in D1:

miranda - 4 (Sporty, Wilgy/tutuu, santy, Scotty)
Dennis - 2 (AM, Neon)
Nate - 2 (falcon, Creature)
Zenge - 1 (Nate)
AM - 1 (Seanzie)
falcon - 1 (Zenge)
Sporty - 1 (pyxxy)
Marmot - 1 (Sloonei)
what is your conclusion from it?
Hes trying to highlight that two wolves voted him. Defending himself from me.

oh lol

i dont think 2 wolves voting u early day 1 is the most cromulent of arguments for why ur town

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:49 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:46 am i didnt know scotty and creature were competing wagons d1
towny derpclear

towny for being completely shameless

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:46 am i didnt know scotty and creature were competing wagons d1

towny derpclear

i need to backread lol. fuck me.

i didnt know scotty and creature were competing wagons d1

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:33 am I'll also point out this VC from earlier in D1:

miranda - 4 (Sporty, Wilgy/tutuu, santy, Scotty)
Dennis - 2 (AM, Neon)
Nate - 2 (falcon, Creature)
Zenge - 1 (Nate)
AM - 1 (Seanzie)
falcon - 1 (Zenge)
Sporty - 1 (pyxxy)
Marmot - 1 (Sloonei)

what is your conclusion from it?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:37 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:27 am lawpy, genny, nate, santy, SAR

any reason at all to townread these slots?

only thing i come up with is nate putting in a lot of effort and santy having good tone. my reason for townreading lawpy was tunneling sloonei in a *hold my hands over my ears lalalalala* way
I came out of Creature's ISO with Santy spewed town. I have since lost faith in that read lol.

bet bet

im really sad that falcon was mafia. dude posted 134 times in 2 days. that's literally 10 games worth of town!falcon

as i said, he joins the club of syndicators who put 10 times more effort into looking town when they rand mafia than when they rand town. which is most of us

no wonder town keeps losing games when mafia tries 10 times harder than town, every single game

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:35 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:23 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:19 am i think i know why sean dipped from the game and it makes him town
he's not the bestest of friends with mac

but its also not impossible he was just busy. we'll see
Doubt that's the reason. He directly interacted with me in a normal way after I subbed in. And I'd expect if it was for that reason he'd have subbed out entirely.

oh alright i missed that post(s)

also

since jay is this kumbayah diplomat gandhi martin luther king jr

i bet he rigged the rand in the sense of

he wanted an equal amount of SDNers and Syndicators to be mafia

coz jay is all about the E Q U A L I T Y this game judging from evertything im seeing

not actually sure how confident i am in this. probably not the best design principle coz it outs a lot of alignments late-game if people figure it out

so maybe not, maybe there can be a few more people wolf from one community than the other

but thats just my soul read on jay

jay is 100% the type of guy to do that in a game he's co-designing

lawpy, genny, nate, santy, SAR

any reason at all to townread these slots?

only thing i come up with is nate putting in a lot of effort and santy having good tone. my reason for townreading lawpy was tunneling sloonei in a *hold my hands over my ears lalalalala* way

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