The Syndicate

vulgard struck me as the kind of wolf who likes to wax poetic about the alignments of villagers and doesn't talk a ton about his partners

thread seems super dumb rn

nothing is going to get done if people are so needlessly hostile, the best towns are cooperative

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:26 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:20 pm If Syn and I both flipped green Dizzy TMI'd us by thinking he was under any threat here
Have fun

I will flip green.

But working with this "town" is pointless, and I have no interest in it. Dya is town. Don't flip them. That's my legacy.

My other legacy is that your (general your) consensus POE is reliant on believing that the remainder of the wolf team is not only terrible at the game, but actively game-throwing. If you believe dya and me are the last two wolves, then that's simply stupid. Why would I come out the gates trying to save dya when the consensus opinion is that that's hella scummy to do? There is no hope in that venture. The safe thing is to bus. I get no cred for rallying to their defense if they flip red. All this does is put suspicion on me without resolving any suspicion on Dya. Why wouldn't Dya and I just concede if we're doing such a shitty job of this and throwing the game?

If your case is reliant on the idea that the remaining wolves are drooling simpletons, then you have found yourself in a world where you have been hosed by wolves.

Flip me first. Do it. Then you can navel gaze for a while and say, "Well, this doesn't clear Dya..." and then mischop them too. Remaining town can have fun figuring it out afterward.

your reads are that dya is town because they posted lolcats and visor is mafia because he's funny and you are indignant people don't find that compelling?

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:19 pm Peeved hardcore by the strength of Dizzy's reaction

???

last night I looked at vulgard's iso a bit and def remember coming away with the impression he wasn't partnered with dizzy, fwiw

Amy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:10 pm [VOTE: Syn] aubergine

tbh i'm actually MORE confident in this one

is that weird

no i've been beating this drum for days lol

bronana wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 5:29 am vulgard chloe dya

saying I've had no interest in solving this phase is flat out bullshit. idk what thread you are reading. I tried to maintain some semblance of JK cover after marl claimed, actually was pretty annoyed he did not wait for Sunbae to react to me first, but dropped it when Sunbae cc'd, thought that was obvious mr. "I thought zack was towny for softing a red on Sunbae"

for what it's worth the overnight post wasn't pre-written (why would it be anyway). I waited a couple hours after eod, took probably 20-30 minutes to write down my thoughts, then a few minutes to optimize emotes, then waited a few minutes before deciding to go ahead and post.

you keep shading me but never actually push. your worldview makes no sense, you have marl and Sunbae both as town somehow which presumes the wolves made incompetent night actions.

good night

what a cool sexy post

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:10 pm Take issue with Dizzy being above spf

every list I post is just alphabetical within tiers

FOUR INNOCENT CHILDREN

Amy
bronana
Marluxion
outed wolf

FOUR INNOCENT CHILDREN

------

Dizzy
nutella
spf

c4

Arete
dya
Syn

sunbae goat



It occurs to me that vulgard may have tried to RB amy but kill someone else. Maybe sunbae? and when he saw my post at SOD he wondered if I'd targeted sunbae and could get him yeeted. He also did repeat over and over the possibility of Sunbae being cc'd, almost like he expected it. I anticipated him either rolling over or trying to CC; claiming vt and declaring his complete trust of sunbae surprised me. I'm not sure why he tried to fight it without really pushing that hard for the alternatives or expressing a more coherent worldview. Maybe he wanted to see if there was a chance of dya going down instead (town or wolf, doesn't matter much) so he could 100% kill sunbae tonight (can't JK the same person consecutively, also maybe wrote off kza as dead weight and holstered the RB n1 with the n3 vig in mind).

Tangentially, I think I townread arete far too easily yesterday. Arete going completely ham defending Vulgard and accusing Sunbae of carrying the kill and being the real JK target makes me go hmmm. If wolves did try to kill sunbae n2, I think vul/arete went all out hoping I was the real JK who targeted sunbae or something. When sunbae claimed, they realized the house of cards was about to fall and declared code yolo, then cooled the jets once it became clear sunbae was real, vulgard was gonna die, and arete was getting townread. Vulgard basically gave up, Arete backed off and started acting like vul was a wolf after being 99% sure they weren’t. Arete being a wolf doesn’t require an attempted n2 sunbae kill causing wolves to believe I was the real JK, but it makes some sense if that was the case.

The way Arete went on about their fucking godread, posted that damn spreadsheet how they’re never ever wrong, referred to multiple instances of vulgard being redchecked as town and Arete still correctly defending them, "99% sure vulgard is a villager" .... It's just too much, feels slimy and disingenuous.

Maybe it's driven in part by irritation and/or some subconscious desire to rub arete's nose in it after the shit they gave me this game for daring to question the mutual godread thing. Personally, I don't understand how they thought vulgard's mediocre d2 and wolfy d3 were SO villagy, especially with such confidence and arrogance. Vulgard had a good d1 (despite a couple wtf posts/thoughts), but I fail to see what was so remarkably towny about their posts on subsequent days. Arete’s posts in this game have been so narrowly focused on going on about how vulgard couldn't possibly be a wolf, to the point others were begging them to talk about something else. Deserves scrutiny and they’re gonna need to slam some impressive depth of thought and breadth of focus on the table going forward.

In any case, it's something I've been mulling over. haha bronana expanding the POE goes brrr. Arete is probably not w/w with syn because of the d1 wall case on tangy, fwiw.

wagon seems pure

that'd be spicy if he flips goon instead of RB

Arete wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:46 pm a thing I'm trying to figure out is why Vulgard gave up when he did

like it makes sense for a wolf to give up when they're redchecked so that they don't spew anything

and it makes sense for a wolf to not give up and try to use the ambiguity to fight their elim

but idk why he would spend most of the day not giving up and then give up at the end anyway

at a certain point it became pretty obvious he was going down today

lol 13 people still alive jesus christ

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:40 pm the lesson is "godreads don't exist"

no exceptions

checkmate theists

sunbae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:23 pm bro, just feel sketchy about the post guiding me onto alison over dya + the fear that all of the squidward looking at spongebob and patrick having fun memes are supposed to be me looking at you and outed wolf having fun in wolf chat lol

i don't know what you mean about guiding you onto alison over dya, i just told you to go with what you believe iirc. I didn't feel strongly enough about it to browbeat you into anything.

bronana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:21 pm

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:20 pm I remember a jailkeeper turbo on mu having a lot of stopped kills

fuck you lol

jumpluff and i wolfed in a jailkeeper turbo where we had complete control of the thread but eventually lost because almost none of our NKs went through (including n1 where the JK tried to protect me; should've known better than to carry a n1 kill but wasn't thinking)

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... eper-Turbo

d1: misyeet
d2: misyeet
d3: misyeet

d4 and d5 me and jump went down, respectively

we never nightkilled a single person

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:20 pm I remember a jailkeeper turbo on mu having a lot of stopped kills

fuck you lol

jumpluff and i wolfed in a jailkeeper turbo where we had complete control of the thread but eventually lost because almost none of our NKs went through (including n1 where the JK tried to protect me; should've known better than to carry a n1 kill but wasn't thinking)

sunbae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:13 pm if you asked me based on posting/pairings/who seemed to care about specific things/who had an agenda/whathaveyou through the first two days after rereading id say bro/dya + wolf

oh and happy pride month!

sunbae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:09 pm I have no new thoughts

Happy pride month

nothing to say about the post i tagged you in?

bronana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:56 am @sunbae

just to be clear, on your re-read of the thread you think dya + chloe fit as teammates regardless of which in {visor, vulgard} is the wolf?

and sorry but can you outline for me why dizzy can't be a wolf in wolf!visor worlds? I'll have to look back on it but visor/syn/dizzy seems like, pretty plausible to me.

after reading arete and sunbae's walls, then organizing my own thoughts: I believe the most likely worlds are [vulgard, syn, dya] or [visor, syn, dizzy]. Maybe you can play around with different permutations of dya/dizzy/syn.

I feel pretty good about (one of vulgard/visor) plus (two of dya/dizzy/syn). Let me know if there are particularly compelling reasons someone else should be included.

also @Arete I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this too since you dug into a lot of these interactions. Anyone else obviously free to also chime in with their thoughts.

I am not sure which team I think is more likely aorn. I'll sleep on it.

It's getting too late, I need to tap out.

you left really good cover btw, sunbae. I bet the wolves have no idea that I'm actually the jailkeeper.

[VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

i was also surprised when alison flipped banana

[VOTE: sleep] aubergine

we need more information

@sunbae

just to be clear, on your re-read of the thread you think dya + chloe fit as teammates regardless of which in {visor, vulgard} is the wolf?

and sorry but can you outline for me why dizzy can't be a wolf in wolf!visor worlds? I'll have to look back on it but visor/syn/dizzy seems like, pretty plausible to me.

after reading arete and sunbae's walls, then organizing my own thoughts: I believe the most likely worlds are [vulgard, syn, dya] or [visor, syn, dizzy]. Maybe you can play around with different permutations of dya/dizzy/syn.

I feel pretty good about (one of vulgard/visor) plus (two of dya/dizzy/syn). Let me know if there are particularly compelling reasons someone else should be included.

also @Arete I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this too since you dug into a lot of these interactions. Anyone else obviously free to also chime in with their thoughts.

I am not sure which team I think is more likely aorn. I'll sleep on it.

It's getting too late, I need to tap out.

bronana, sunbae, amy

^ villagers

Arete

nutella
spf

c4
Marl

^ I was harder than most on arete d1/d2 but I have a really difficult time seeing their d3 coming from a wolf. I am not quite seeing nutella or spf worlds at the moment. To a lesser extent, I am not seeing much in the way of c4 or marl worlds either. If I'm being fooled I'll re-evaluate once the time comes for it.

Dya
Dizzy

Syn (tangy/chloe)

{Vulgard XOR outed wolf}

^ I'll trust sunbae that (fmpov) there is exactly one wolf between outed wolf and vulgard; makes sense to me. Syn seems like a wolf a large amount of the time to me. I could see dya and dizzy being in a few different permutations, some neater than others.

also idk dizzy pushed pretty hard for marl being a wolf over vulgard today, i don't think it would be that crazy to be w/w

sunbae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:18 am

bronana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:17 am maybe i just want to consider dizzy as a wolf because otherwise I find the amount of worlds that include the three wolves voting as a bloc d1 *and* d2 to save a wolf disconcerting, especially because i voted with them both times in that case loooool

Someone talked about hally kill implicated dizzy and i just read it but cant recall who it was. they should talk more about that.

alison. they didn't really elaborate.

why can't dizzy be a wolf with dya? seems perfectly plausible to me

maybe i just want to consider dizzy as a wolf because otherwise I find the amount of worlds that include the three wolves voting as a bloc d1 *and* d2 to save a wolf disconcerting, especially because i voted with them both times in that case loooool

sunbae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:12 am I do wonder why I spent so much time this game day stressing about/reading the game. I had already done a fine job, day 3 + a kill stopped, dropped in relevant info, could just kick back and chill and feel ok

instead i reread everything and am more annoyed with myself for not having a hard solve than i was previously lol

i need to learn to like, be more chill with myself

^ me when people make detailed walls and talk about how they've re-read the entire thread and combed extensively through isos while i mostly just post in real-time and occasionally glance back at something

sunbae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:08 am I feel like I should have more worlds where C4 is a wolf but they just kept not happening

idk, i am kinda coming around to them just not seeming super likely to be teamed with wolves?

according to marl this is similar to how c4 plays as town, apparently spf reads him well too and thinks he's town?

i'm ron burgundy?

Marluxion wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 4:51 am like i told vulgard in the nightchat c4 so far this game has been near identical to harry potter fm where he hardly posts and still has an incredibly confident poe that he barely budges on

c4 was town in harry potter

spf could be reading into that but it could also just be a pocket, idk

also i am beginning to wonder if dizzy is being cleared too easily, tell me to stop if this is just bad paranoia creeping in

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:13 am [VOTE: alison] aubergine

We should keep the wagons close

I switched to do so

Doubt I'll here for EOD

Glglglgllg

hmm

maybe it was hasty to rule this out with visor ending on dya. looking at dya's iso, they pmuch never talk about visor but have them surprisingly high in their reads list in 2484

dya/visor/chloe for the lols

look, if visor is a wolf then tangy/chloe/syn is probably a teammate and if vulgard is a wolf then tangy/chloe/syn is probably a teammate

what am i missing here bronanas

enlighten me with your wisdom

i don't know why you all want to kill dya if you think vulgard is villa

surely dya and visor are not w/w?

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:39 am

Arete wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:33 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:38 am c4, dya and KZA are in the "no impressions made" club and I would like them to play the game. I do not townread c4 for a carefully voiced scumread (?) on SPF. That's in any average wolf's wolfrange and I think SPF is too quick to clear them regardless of alignment.

dya and KZA just haven't talked about the game much yet. Dya got offended based on a single accusation if I read that correctly, and KZA 5-posted and dipped.

since I feel like no one actually reads my wallposts I'm just going to highlight this post as super important if Vul flips wolf (which, to be clear, I still don't think he will! just. acknowledging the possibility.)

like I feel like I've seen a lot of ambient 'the team is probably just Vul/c4/Dya' floating around and ... no, that's not a thing.

Arete wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:35 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:30 am

Arete wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:15 am @Vulgard

if you get voted out today and are a villager are there any non-mechanical reads (in either direction) that you strongly want pushed

My towncore of Arete/Amy/Sunbae/Nutella/Dizzy/Marl. I am very confident this is pure.

ok I changed my mind again

Vul is just a villager

the logical explanation for why he stopped giving reads as a wolf is that he didn't want to spew anything more, even to the extent that anti-spew can still spew things

but if that's what he was doing then he has no reason to come back and give a legitimate answer to my question

you're all going to tell me this is dumb and I don't care

these two things do point to vul town tbh bc if he's a wolf he's really boxing in the poe

the first thing is a quote from d1

the second thing, what else is he going to do as a wolf? he's got to push the alternate worlds sunbae suggested, which that list does

calling me going through the motions is interesting, its a charge id level against people who are not me this game lol
(hell i think outed wolf would be a more accurate target for that than me)

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:26 am

bronana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:25 am

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:18 am man i am not confident we are going in the right direction here

idk

maybe vulgard will flip w and it'll all be dandy

but i cant help but worry if he flips v and then i will have a hell of a time trying to fight off some mechanical argument

and dya is STILL ALIVE SOMEHOW

why'd the PRs have to target us n1 smh. I expect that shit on cfc but on the syndicate too?? grumble grumble

lettuce hope vulgard flips wolf

lmao true

lettuce hope

what do you think of syns posts

they are hardly inspiring

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:18 am man i am not confident we are going in the right direction here

idk

maybe vulgard will flip w and it'll all be dandy

but i cant help but worry if he flips v and then i will have a hell of a time trying to fight off some mechanical argument

and dya is STILL ALIVE SOMEHOW

why'd the PRs have to target us n1 smh. I expect that shit on cfc but on the syndicate too?? grumble grumble

lettuce hope vulgard flips wolf

et tu sunbae?

is there anything worse than the sinking feeling when you realize you're about to live a very long time in a mafia game

that was syn's avatar before glum lissa

not to be confused with the musician who goes by the stage name 'Ross from Friends'

bring back disapproving ross

Oh. I'm dumb lmao. Ignore me.

bronana wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 7:45 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 7:29 pm- Role blocked/jailed players are not counted as having targeted anyone. A tracker who targets a role blocked player who attempted to perform an action will receive a result indicating that their target targeted nobody.

isn't that the result amy claimed on dizzy - didn't target anyone? we sure amy wasn't roleblocked?

Amy wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:08 pm hello

dizzy visited nobody

maybe vulgard's weird reaction is because he's a wolf but not the roleblocker and knows we are off on that point (e.g. why he so easily cleared marl and was slow to really suspect visor when one or both should ~always have been wolves from his POV)

@sunbae @Amy

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 7:29 pm- Role blocked/jailed players are not counted as having targeted anyone. A tracker who targets a role blocked player who attempted to perform an action will receive a result indicating that their target targeted nobody.

isn't that the result amy claimed on dizzy - didn't target anyone? we sure amy wasn't roleblocked?

Amy wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:08 pm hello

dizzy visited nobody

maybe vulgard's weird reaction is because he's a wolf but not the roleblocker and knows we are off on that point (e.g. why he so easily cleared marl and was slow to really suspect visor when one or both should ~always have been wolves from his POV)

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 6:54 pm a minor concern i have regarding outed wolf is how quickly he has latched onto specific narratives/worldviews

i recall that in rocks fall, (sorry for meta - this read still applies even if you don't know the game i'm talking about) it was rare for visor to have a definitive "solve" or a definitive answer about who the wolves were - he mostly just played in the moment and adjusted his reads as the game went on

in this game, i've felt that his reads are both more fleshed out and more static - he attached himself to a specific narrative throughout d1/d2 (ie: "amy is a wolf, dyachei is a wolf, alison could be a wolf") and it's hard for me to ignore the fact that he played a fairly large role in concentrating pressure against amy while also taking a passive approach to alison (ie: letting her get buried without directly getting his hands dirty)

his approach, in general, has had a higher level of internal confidence/swagger than the village games i've seen from him in the past, and it reminds me of my own overly confident/cocky attitude when i'm wolfing. i don't actually scumread outed wolf at the moment, but ftr, i understand the concerns

i could see it, he's a good wolf and I am hardly an expert on his wolfgame given how surprisingly infrequent my experience with it has been, so i could be wrong in thinking he's a villager

that said, his play would hardly be that unusual for him as town and this is around the time in mafia games where people unfamiliar with town!visor start to turn on him and make me worry i've misread him. plus vulgard is likely a wolf and visor is almost never with him

what do you think makes sense for a visor team? I have my own thoughts on that front but don't want to lead the witness. (if you think I am likely teamed with him, feel free to say so but I'd appreciate if you also included possibilities without me)

visor's posts seem fine to me

he is obviously going to display the same perspective in the thread of not being the wolf RB regardless of his alignment, I don't understand how that means anything

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 4:08 pm Dizzys confidence on the marl world makes me want to not dismiss that either

But it prob is also the visor world

Like visor/marl/dya works imo

hopefully it's just vulgard instead

how does visor w/w with dya "work"? idgi. i don't know about him with marl either, visor kept shading marl when people were clearing him in a way that seemed weird if they're bros

Syn wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 4:20 pm is visor outed wolf

lol

yes