The Syndicate

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:17 pm @MacDougall I'm going to assume you're town for a second. Please give me your take on what happened D1:

Why was I alone in defense of Alison who I felt gave off town tells (I'll take this back if the read is proven false in the future, but accurate in every game I've checked). I would expect you to have had a vocal read where you didn't.

I understand you didn't vote Alison in the end (at least I don't think so), but I was shocked at the fact you seemed to not care about her going over at all.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:12 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:51 pm @NotAnAxehole what is w!mac’s motivation for constantly trying to remove you from the PoE? do you think he believes he can pocket you/would try to pocket you specifically? what is he trying to do here as a wolf iyo?

wolf!Nanook and wolf!mac can win simply by having me not vote against them - and they know I'll omgus them hard (they've both indicated a scum read on me at some point today). It's MYLO.

Also, them trying to reason with me in this way does nothing towards contradicting your or Jay or anyone else's view on me -- You ask yourself why they care about removing me from the PoE -- You answer your own question: they must be town trying to solve.

So it checks all of the boxes, it gives me what I'm looking for, and gives you what you're looking for. In contrast with debating your alignment, it gives me nothing except for a scum read on anyone who starts to entertain the thought... And increases the chance that you omgus.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:11 pm i’d like nook to explain that progression

if anything it should be the reverse i.e. i think it makes more sense to be suspicious of you D1/D2 then come to a town read on you today because i agree this is the villageriest you’ve posted all game

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:45 pm Okay...

Yeah okay.

Can you unpair Axe/Nanook?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:34 pm I dunno about that Hally, poe town can be greatly strategically beneficial to pocket because they are more inclined to townread you for being townread than a town outside the POE and getting their vote on your side can protect you. I do it all the time.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:23 pm Nook's "Look at how many posts I have" is asinine and I refuse to believe he doesn't realize it's different when they're empty Nook posts

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:49 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:45 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:29 pm 145 posts LiTeRaLlY uNrEaDaBlE

what’s the villageriest thing you’ve posted iyo?

Idk, I dont have to evaluate myself lol. I think I'm broadly in my town meta but idk that there's one specific thing that clears me. Maybe my entrance wrt mac and Jay or not forcing a read on axe, but

Nook says he doesn't and shouldn't have reasons he's town when he spent his SoD1 insisting he was towntelling

Nook popping in to push back on the two most recent out of however many points against him, and doing it exclusively with factual information, while trying to project not caring, is baaaaaaad

Simple things that have been on the table this whole time like the posts Nook chose to respond to SoD1 making his entrance look awkward as hell

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:25 pm "Doing it exclusively with factual information" sorry next time ill just make stuff up instead

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:31 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:27 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:23 pm Nook popping in to push back on the two most recent out of however many points against him, and doing it exclusively with factual information, while trying to project not caring, is baaaaaaad

Why is this baaaaaaad

1. Soft beetlejuice
2. Picks the easy way to refute points even when (particularly with how he cites his postcount) it doesn't actually refute points
3. Acting like he doesn't care when his actions imply he does care

Like he literally started getting indignant about pushes on him right after people said the fact that he wasn't doing so was wolfy, after not having been in thread
I feel like this case writes itself

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:33 pm I don't feel that I'm any more indignant than I've been this entire game

I think most of you are just poor at reading my tone

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:36 pm Fuck's sake

Kill c4, find the mafia in jay/axe/dizzy/mac, gg

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:02 pm Seems unlikely given that what I've said hasn't already

I think there's likely a mafia in this game that's sort of sliding by, that pool basically amounts to wilgy/radishes/c4, I dismissed wilgy because I still think he's town and I don't think radishes fits that well, leaving me with c4, someone that has generally escaped my notice. I do believe this game is a prime target for applying the vibe tell read, and c4 fails it harder than anyone else in the game for me, so. I do think there's probably one between radishes and c4 for vague and poorly defined gamestate reasons that I don't really have the willpower or desire to even attempt to expand on, but I kinda think c4 is more likely.

By nature it's difficult to really expound on or sell, and I didn't/don't expect it to convince anyone. Convincing people isn't really my strongsuit anyways. But, that's my read.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:07 pm [VOTE: c4] aubergine

will return to self voting if the opening presents itself

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:30 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:16 pm GTH reads on Nanook right now go go go

w

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:49 pm c4 and Nanook

From c4

Spoiler: show

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:31 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:24 pm I don't find Nanook's entrance particularly suspicious.

This is a little wack

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:33 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:31 pm I'm treating Nanook and Alison as claim and counterclaim.

This is also a little wack

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:22 pm [VOTE: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME] aubergine

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:54 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:51 pm Imagine having four votes on you after you've town told your ass off, smh

I call this "Wednesday"

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:13 pm [VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine
[VOTE: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME] aubergine

Start somewhere like this

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:13 pm I still think Nook is wolfier than Radish

And every other Radish point looks like accusing him of being Radish

Shrug



Disclaimer haven't fully absorbed the Radish stuff yet

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:10 pm I'm not giving Nook jack for using the vibe tell LMAO

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:05 pm Lmk if I need to bury Nook but I don't think I do

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:23 pm Nook's "Look at how many posts I have" is asinine and I refuse to believe he doesn't realize it's different when they're empty Nook posts

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:49 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:45 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:29 pm 145 posts LiTeRaLlY uNrEaDaBlE

what’s the villageriest thing you’ve posted iyo?

Idk, I dont have to evaluate myself lol. I think I'm broadly in my town meta but idk that there's one specific thing that clears me. Maybe my entrance wrt mac and Jay or not forcing a read on axe, but

Nook says he doesn't and shouldn't have reasons he's town when he spent his SoD1 insisting he was towntelling

Nook popping in to push back on the two most recent out of however many points against him, and doing it exclusively with factual information, while trying to project not caring, is baaaaaaad

Simple things that have been on the table this whole time like the posts Nook chose to respond to SoD1 making his entrance look awkward as hell

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:38 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:36 pm Fuck's sake

Kill c4, find the mafia in jay/axe/dizzy/mac, gg

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

Oh my god.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:30 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:16 pm GTH reads on Nanook right now go go go

w

From Nanook

Spoiler: show

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:45 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:36 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:34 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:20 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:15 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:09 pm
sup?

I think you'd scrutinize Dizzy a little harder if you found his behavior jarring, since I got the impression you were miffed at wrongly townreading him in GOC.

it’s jarring, i just don’t think really think it’s AI

dizzy is more than capable of faking tone/vibe as a wolf so i believe that he’s just down regardless of alignment

1) Dizzy is down.
2) Dizzy hates playing wolf.
3) Dizzy is more likely to be down if he is a wolf.
4) If Dizzy is down, he is more likely to be a wolf.

Which of these 4 statements is not true?

If Schweppes were in this game, he would say something angsty here

Something angsty

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:32 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:31 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:24 pm I don't find Nanook's entrance particularly suspicious.

This is a little wack

My entrance was actually super townie but only axe and mac are gonna recognize it lol

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:32 pm [VOTE: c4] aubergine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:51 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:37 pm It's lost all effect anyway and it's only about the amount of time you want to waste now.

Is this a slip?

Thonk

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:39 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:44 pm nook, why are you voting c4?

Iawy read

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:15 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:50 am @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME Why is c4 mafia to you?

Have you played with iawy before?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:36 pm Fuck's sake

Kill c4, find the mafia in jay/axe/dizzy/mac, gg

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:02 pm Seems unlikely given that what I've said hasn't already

I think there's likely a mafia in this game that's sort of sliding by, that pool basically amounts to wilgy/radishes/c4, I dismissed wilgy because I still think he's town and I don't think radishes fits that well, leaving me with c4, someone that has generally escaped my notice. I do believe this game is a prime target for applying the vibe tell read, and c4 fails it harder than anyone else in the game for me, so. I do think there's probably one between radishes and c4 for vague and poorly defined gamestate reasons that I don't really have the willpower or desire to even attempt to expand on, but I kinda think c4 is more likely.

By nature it's difficult to really expound on or sell, and I didn't/don't expect it to convince anyone. Convincing people isn't really my strongsuit anyways. But, that's my read.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:07 pm [VOTE: c4] aubergine

will return to self voting if the opening presents itself

Conclusion

So. Uh.

lol.

I did not expect to feel this way before opening the ISOs, but these two fit together. Moreover, I think this looks like teammate shit. Hear me out friends:

Their suspicion of each other is undeveloped and blank for the majority of the game to this point. Only recently has either really taken it a step further, and that was c4 once Nanook's wagon was 3-deep and it was clear nobody trusted him. There's a hint, to me, of TMI in their treatment of each other. They almost treat the game like "this guy is obviously suspicious, and it would be redundant for me to even talk about it". Nanook did the same thing by starting 1610-theory. Then consider Nanook's core accusation against c4. Is there any better way than "reference a philosophical read by a guy not in the game" (IAWY) to cast suspicion upon someone else while also ensuring nobody else will be moved by it?

They don't have to be teammates, but they sure as hell can be. I welcome argument.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:52 pm Lulz

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:54 pm And people are surprised i self voted when there are so many of these absolute smelliest fart I've ever read type posts in this game

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:55 pm Like fuck, just say you don't know how to read me and you don't how to pair/unpair me and you're gonna kill me for it and get on with it

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:58 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:56 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:54 pm And people are surprised i self voted when there are so many of these absolute smelliest fart I've ever read type posts in this game

I don't understand why you shit on everyone's posts so much

>nanook and c4 are likely teammates

Ok boomer

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:59 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:57 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:55 pm Like fuck, just say you don't know how to read me and you don't how to pair/unpair me and you're gonna kill me for it and get on with it

Just say you hate being suspected so much that you lose any sense of objectivity and stop playing if you're going to lose any sense of objectivity and stop playing

Fuck off

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:30 pm Yeah I mean it is true that they are compatible. But I find Nanook and C4 more suspicious than Axe on an individual level and ... I'm not sure that their interactions are clearing for them really.

Can you show me why Nanook and C4 can't be teammates?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:26 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:22 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:19 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:15 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:10 pm That also brings me to my next magic trick. I think Axe is town still and that C4/Nook is the solve.

i don’t think c4/nook can be teamed

Maybe I am a dunce, but Axe has had more conviction in his solve today than the other two. What you and Jay were describing before about floundering because your mischops die applies more to Nanook and C4 than it does to Axe.

For me he is the town between the three.

What is obvious to me is that it is not you and/or Jay because you would not need to side with me here to win if it was either of you since 3 other players believe me to be mafia. Axe has articulated his reason for suspecting me better than the other three have. Nanook and C4 in fact really just haven't at all. The one of the three who has handled me the poorest is Nook.

So... let's talk about how/why it can't be C4/Nook then.

where has he articulated it? i still have no idea why he thinks you’re a wolf

he has that one post with his “mechanical solve” that makes zero sense to me and jay asked him to explain his method for getting there and he didn’t

afaict he is just repeating you’re a wolf over and over but has no idea why

yeah he has articulated it poorly but it's still better than either c4 or nook have

so reviewing the way c4 handled both of them I would say that...

a) he has handled axe in a partnery way ie. soft defense, not really pushing him... but it is also the same way that a mafia will often defend a townie they know is town and want to pocket, but who they might need to switch off at some point
b) he "suspected nanook" but never provided any clear reasoning and has never really buried nanook... he has also not asked nanook any probing questions or engaged him, in this game distancing is more valuable than it ordinarily would...
c) now that we are at mylo he isn't pushing nanook any more but is pushing me with axe as his solve, he has dropped his nanook sus (which might make sense to you, but doesn't make sense to me, and so probably shouldn't make sense to the person who has been the most sus of nanook all game)

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:44 pm i’m skimming NAA’s iso and don’t see anything that unaligns him from c4

he throws out c4 as an unexplained wolf read early D1, says he needs to check to see if the read holds, doesn’t check it, then completely drops it and never really talks about c4 again the rest of the game

seems like it could easily be in w/w range

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:26 pm wow, c4 soft defends NAA like… a lot

not gonna quote it all but ctrl+F axe in c4’s iso

really feels like he’s grasping for reasons to keep his teammate out of his PoE

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:27 pm i think i even had a read at one point that c4’s read on NAA was villagery unless they were w/w lol

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:35 pm NAA looks like such a teammate from c4’s iso that it’s almost making me wonder if they would be that obvious as w/w lol

like, look at this:

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:23 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:16 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:12 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:02 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:00 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:58 pm c4’s entrance feels kinda underwhelming, i agree

Same

who are the wolves?

Nook is wolfy and I haven't felt a need to persuade anyone

"Mac needs to step it up" has been hammered into all of us enough
Gut says he's been playing in a generally unaligned way but I don't normally need my gut with Mac

I have reasons to like all of Axe/Dizzy/Radish/Wilgy and just need some of them to be stronger ffs

what are those reasons?

Axe has a towny self-absorption
Dizzy is being significantly more effective and less agenda'd than GoC
Radish's takes have felt like they came without obligation
Wilgy made catches I didn't expect him to when I didn't expect him to

the NAA v read sticks out like a sore thumb here

we know the other three v reads are all correct now and they seem believable enough… and then there’s the axe read that looks like BS to me

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:39 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:41 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 2:20 pm i wanna kill NAA over mac and alison

to me NAA’s play just reads like open wolfing while daring anyone to do anything about it and then snickering to himself when he skates by

also the difficulty i’ve had getting traction on my push on him while other targets have gotten votes very easily indicates he’s a wolf

i see he’s since gotten a vote from marmot but idc about that because i v read marmot, and jay seems to be the only other person willing to push NAA with me and i v read him too, whereas it feels like every other wagon has been joined by people i don’t v read

NAA just feels like the play here

Big meh on VCA in a game with 2 wolves

I think the things Axe's snickering about are more based on what he's saying about everyone else than what everyone else is saying about him
I can't ride or die a read like this but I think it's towny

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:39 pm what does that read even mean

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:42 pm he is literally just describing NAA’s behavior (which seems more NAA indicative than AI) and then going “uhh idk it’s towny” lol

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:45 pm i think that regardless of NAA’s alignment my reasons to wolf read him in that post were pretty bad and it would be fairly easy for c4 to use that as a platform to defend NAA without looking too bad off it

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:48 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:29 pm I believe wagons or near-wagons existed around the EOD2 stretch on both c4 and NAA, so it'd be interesting to see how each handled that. Mac had a wagon too obviously so that needs to be checked out beyond just NAA's vote placement.

i don’t remember what axe did (my recollection is nothing)

c4 begrudgingly voted NAA but it was at the last second so i don’t think there was enough time for anyone to switch to NAA even if they wanted to

could definitely be a bus vote imo

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:20 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:07 pm What I've seen and heard of Axe makes me think the whole "caring about pushing reads" thing doesn't apply to him lol

Soz if my lack of response made you sound unheard, it was just that you ended on the thought I probably would've tried to steer you towards anyway so I decided to just let that thought simmer

wow this is pretty defensive tho lol

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:19 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:15 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:10 pm That also brings me to my next magic trick. I think Axe is town still and that C4/Nook is the solve.

i don’t think c4/nook can be teamed

Maybe I am a dunce, but Axe has had more conviction in his solve today than the other two. What you and Jay were describing before about floundering because your mischops die applies more to Nanook and C4 than it does to Axe.

For me he is the town between the three.

What is obvious to me is that it is not you and/or Jay because you would not need to side with me here to win if it was either of you since 3 other players believe me to be mafia. Axe has articulated his reason for suspecting me better than the other three have. Nanook and C4 in fact really just haven't at all. The one of the three who has handled me the poorest is Nook.

So... let's talk about how/why it can't be C4/Nook then.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:10 pm That also brings me to my next magic trick. I think Axe is town still and that C4/Nook is the solve.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:52 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:41 pm @c4e5g3d5 who are your suspects

Think it's Axe/Mac

Mac's treatment of Axe is almost too compatible to be compatible
Starts by looking for a way tovote outside of him/Axe, thread isn't receptive, switches to setting up potential Axe partners in response
Later townreads Axe again but jumps on the first chance to tie me to him

Mac citing something he knows is completely NAI for me, then going "I don't remember you doing <list of half of what I've done this game>", comes off as deliberately obtuse

Also because I think you're townier than both of them, but this post from you made me question that lmao.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:07 pm Oh my god. Mac is howling.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:03 pm Gun to my head, Mac is town. I probably don't have quite your confidence. I think this Day 3 is kind of broadcasting a gamestate though with people clearly solving and people clearly solved. If someone wants to tear me out of that mindset, I am open to being torn. It's happening in my head though.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:38 pm i’m back to thinking mac is just a villager

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:48 am This game is hard because yall killed my top town read D1 & forced another town read to claim.



Gut says 1 of Mac, C4, Nanook is NOT mafia... But that isn't good enough.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:15 am Yep. If c4 is mafia I am a proper dunce.

In my defense I almost got there when the madness was at its peak at EOD2. Almost counts.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:45 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:44 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:42 am Nanook and c4 are definitely not mafia teammates. So if Nanook is in that set of three, both of the open teams include NAA.

Why's that?

That's where I think fuck off has meaning. It doesn't tell me Nanook's alignment, but it evidences frustration in a key moment -- immediately after I had mused over the possibility of a Nanook/c4 team. If that was a mafia Nanook reaction, it'd reflect a very loud case of caught for the wrong reasons.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:36 am Okay I am going to add that Nanook himself has multiple times told us to stop townreading him for telling Jay to fuck off. I think we should probably heed that warning.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

I think if I were to stop giving Nanook any credit for that, I would have him as my top wolf today.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:35 am Struggling to see a probable scenario with a town NAA.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:10 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:14 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:04 pm Concern about Mac: if he's town I'd expect him to want my head on a pike right now

was thinking about this on the bus and i also think it’s a bit weird that mac entered today tinfoiling me instead of you

i think i’ve arguably been more villagery than you (though ofc i’m biased) and also less wrong so far (all your wolf reads have flipped v so far whereas my pet push NAA us still alive and seems like a very probable wolf) so i would think if mac was looking for a deep wolf he’d look at you instead of me

but i’m not sure he’s ever actually seen me wolf so it’s possible he doesn’t know i can’t post like this as a wolf

does he usually tend to read you primarily off results or off of how villagery he thinks you are?

I was tinfoiling neither of you to a significant degree. You overreacted to me just vocalising some innane tinfoil. I was tinfoiling Jay more than you at the start of the day but, and I shit you not, Jay called himself town five times and I just went "yup, I guess you are" and then my tinfoil went away. Then I started reading all of Jay's content as pure and have not had any cause to find issue with his play since because his solving is aligned with mine with the exception of me being part of his. All of his non Mac solving (and yours as of recently at least), I can completely understand and I agree with.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:21 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:51 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:31 am for completeness sake, my other concern with jay aside from his NAA defense is how hard he was pushing on MR

i had MR as PoE but i didn’t think he was really wolfy, and i felt jay was kind of stretching for reasons to call MR a wolf and was maybe too confident in it

at one point i even thought jay was softing a red check on MR (hence my post and me asking jay how confident he was in it) because he was pretty much slamming MR and seemed like he was pre-flipping him wolf

in hindsight it isn’t really difficult to view that whole section of the thread as “power wolf jay ruthlessly dunks on LHF villager radishes”

but i’m not sure how much i believe it and outside of that i think jay’s play has generally been villagery

Sure. I didn't feel like I was slamming him really, but I think I understand the perception. He was trying to defend himself, and I kept saying that it wasn't doing much for me and that I needed him to find mafia. It's not MR's fault, but there are certain forms of defense that I simply am not receptive to as a player (because I consider them to be essentially irrelevant to alignment and within most people's ranges). Indeed, sometimes the mere act of defense raises my suspicion depending upon the context or delivery, particularly when it becomes a significant proportion of someone's posts. That's just Mafia philosophy though, and clearly MR was town. Them's the breaks.

i’m talking about that, i’m talking about some of the reasons you were using to push him

specifically pushing him for trolling about wilgy’s hammer thing and for asking NAA to explain the wolf read on him struck me as reachy (and i think i expressed that at the time)

it kinda felt like you were simply piling on reasons and just trying to bury him rather than considering his alignment

again, it was to the point where i even thought you may have red checked him because your treatment of him just seemed weird otherwise

if you’re a wolf i think that section of the thread is where i’m supposed to catch you, but i don’t know that i really feel it’s enough to consider you and i don’t have any other concrete reasons to think you’re a wolf so meh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:51 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:31 am for completeness sake, my other concern with jay aside from his NAA defense is how hard he was pushing on MR

i had MR as PoE but i didn’t think he was really wolfy, and i felt jay was kind of stretching for reasons to call MR a wolf and was maybe too confident in it

at one point i even thought jay was softing a red check on MR (hence my post and me asking jay how confident he was in it) because he was pretty much slamming MR and seemed like he was pre-flipping him wolf

in hindsight it isn’t really difficult to view that whole section of the thread as “power wolf jay ruthlessly dunks on LHF villager radishes”

but i’m not sure how much i believe it and outside of that i think jay’s play has generally been villagery

Sure. I didn't feel like I was slamming him really, but I think I understand the perception. He was trying to defend himself, and I kept saying that it wasn't doing much for me and that I needed him to find mafia. It's not MR's fault, but there are certain forms of defense that I simply am not receptive to as a player (because I consider them to be essentially irrelevant to alignment and within most people's ranges). Indeed, sometimes the mere act of defense raises my suspicion depending upon the context or delivery, particularly when it becomes a significant proportion of someone's posts. That's just Mafia philosophy though, and clearly MR was town. Them's the breaks.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:20 am @MacDougall last day you seemed pretty paranoid of jay and were even calling him a wolf, and that was before his two pushes MR and dizzy both flipped v

i’m confused what made you start to trust him?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:04 pm Concern about Mac: if he's town I'd expect him to want my head on a pike right now

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:29 pm I believe wagons or near-wagons existed around the EOD2 stretch on both c4 and NAA, so it'd be interesting to see how each handled that. Mac had a wagon too obviously so that needs to be checked out beyond just NAA's vote placement.