The Syndicate

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:59 pm So, regarding "suggesting Marmot is mafia because Esooa died over him":

a) If someone brings it up, they're mafia.

b) If no one brings it up, then it's not something we should think about.

c) If someone brings up a) and b), they're probably town.

Does that about cover it?

- _ -

"implies the possibility of" =/= "they're"

Additionally, there are more things to suggest that just "Marmot is mafia". How about "Speechuck is mafia because Esooa died over Marmot" or something else?

What if it was a kill because they had already decided they were going to kill Mac? Spew nothing about Marmot since one said he was mafia and one said he was town?

There are, like, so many ways to take it, that its basically equivalent to overthinking in a tunnel. At most we can acknowledge the possibility and its my opinion that those possibilities not be the main piece of evidence why X is scummy or towny.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:16 pm There are various WIFOMy thought processes that could prompt wolf-you to act that way.

You see, maybe its a good idea that, while you *can* acknowledge that possibility

sometimes its better to not overthink things as WIFOM inherently can justify anything as being scummy

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:16 pm Ok, but that's clearly on your mind. What does it mean?

Generally speaking I look into "what does it mean" if someone *is* pushing it around as that implies the possibility of them being mafia and deciding that kill.

Here seemingly no one is marketing the concept of Esooa's death & circumstances with respect to any sort of reasoning, and therefore I don't think its a good idea to make a judgement from that.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:42 pm I mean this is an awfully charitable explanation

Sure.

Do you think there's a better explanation for it?

His post agreeing with me not-withstanding, I'm a bit of a fan of Marmot's recent posts.

I really don't feel any sort of scumminess from him right now, unless I go into the usual unreasonable "they're trying to pocket me" thought process

But I'm not feeling it

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:28 am That looks awful for Martin, who was voting off either wagon despite being present at Day's end.

Here's a very good question for you:

If wolves decide ties, and I can vote to resolve that tie ***anyways***

Then why did I not simply make a vote and place it on the theme of "Martin is lost D1"? Why leave it up to me in the long-run anyways?

In fact, I don't think I've even pushed the fact that Esooa died instead of Marmot anywhere, and not many other people have either.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:52 am I'm more convinced that we have descriptive role names that were never supposed to be any sort of instruction.

Mine were never an instruction.

It just mentions a time where Nanook supposedly promised a good role to someone and instead gave them Mafia Goon.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:42 am Sort by character count become WW expert?

Char puts almost zero thought into this read on me, puts paragraphs in on Speed, and still inexplicably has a bloodlust for the groundhog

1. His vote is currently on a no-kill vote, as he's re-evaluating or evaluating people.

Also, I believe he explained his reasoning on Marmot. After all, he was right in that it did happen in that game he hosted where Marmot is scum. I don't see a reason as to why not he would look to that for possible analysis on Marmot.

2. Speedchuck had an almost inexorable hand in helping to raise the chance that Esooa was executed on D1 instead of Marmot by tying the wagons....and Marmot is a scum-read of Chardonnay's at that time.

Its not surprising for him to put more effort into speed chuck because of that. Besides, soon after his read on you he goes off to enquire about you.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:57 am [VOTE: Made] aubergine

Let's see what happens.

Disagree.

The fact that you bring up mod lies and the possibility of this being mountainous

only to go this route

Doesn't really make much sense to me.

In addition it seems like your basing the whole n0 vig shot thing as your basis for scum-reading Made, without presenting any evidence (that isn't the n0 vig shot) in the thread that is scummy for him to do or say ITT.

Here:

Made wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:57 pm i was informed that I took a n0 vig shot against a player because i thought they were talking fun, and that they were mafia.

I don't recall doing this, and from what i can tell everyone is still alive, BUT if i were to of taken a N0 vig shot, it would of been at Mac.

I believe that this part in pink is him guessing based on the information given by the first line above in the quote. Since he doesn't recall doing it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:54 am Why would you have taken a N0 vig of Mac? I'm curious because Mac is now dead. It's probably a coincidence, but

He didn't have a choice in it if I recall.

He said his role said on N0 he shot someone funny or something

and he thought that might've been Mac considering he won funniest poster in the past

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:36 am Anybody seen any reason to think lies are happening?

Not yet.

Only that the "lie" is where there isn't mechanical bastardy like we might expect.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:36 am I'm surprised Mac was killed last night, I guess the mafia really bought his doc claim.

Tbh I wasn't sure why they killed Mac either

Like, I could have been paranoid of him for D2 but nope they closed that door

My only guess is that claim or they wanted to use his death as a justification for X push or to solidify their "town reads" because Mac agreed with them.

Or it was something like "hey lets kill someone random so why not Mac". I personally as Mafia very much like WIFOM kills on n1 and sometimes n2 where the kills don't have an immediate impact in furthering my goals (other than having killed a town). I don't know how it is for other people though.

chardonnay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:40 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:16 am Wait actually TSP is just voting me =_=

and Chuck is voting Marmot rn

TSP/Chuck team? hmmm

how likely a world do you see this as Martian?

well given that I've been lost for most of D1

and *perhaps* I could be missing some things

I'm not very confident on it and I'm speaking about it so that people may agree or disagree with me on it

Vibe-wise I like some of your posts in particular for which I won't mention right now

but I would really appreciate it if by giving me all of your reasons on Marmot it'll help me (and potentially others) find you town

chardonnay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:16 am I was wanting marmot blood last night. wish i could've been presnt to push things harder.:/

Look @chardonnay while I do feel like there's something with TSP and Chuck's slots....

Reading this gives me pause.

I would very much like to hear your reasons for why marmot is scum, even if its past EoD1 or if it seems no one agrees with you.

I guess the TL;DR of it is that

I'm not really vibing or feeling with Chuck and TSP so far rn

it feels like there's more things that are off about them

than things being off about anyone else

Wait actually TSP is just voting me =_=

and Chuck is voting Marmot rn

Even though I've been advocating that both wagons yesterday were possibly town, and that at one point or another I was a town-read of theirs

heck the fact that neither of them are addressing or re-addressing the issue of each other right now or by now seems odd to me

Chuck + TSP early interactions happening but no later interactions also seems odd to me tbh

Especially when TSP did vote chuck, I noted it, and the last time it was even really reacted to or mentioned was this:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:59 pm Hot Take: TSP mad that I red checked his partner

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:39 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:01 pm yes I am who'd you redcheck

Your partner.

I thought we'd been over this.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:29 pm

chardonnay wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:50 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:39 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:01 pm yes I am who'd you redcheck

Your partner.

I thought we'd been over this.

whose his partner?

You tell me

Just nothing after this. No notices that X interaction was scummy or towny by either of them like they're in this unimplied null area for who-knows-what-reason.

Progression still feels odd to me though.

But its not like I'm going to talk about that explanation other than note it just incase it becomes relevant later.

Well, maybe its because he just not being very public with his thinking.

I could see one explanation for it.

I feel like something's off with TSP, granted I don't think I've had a whole tonnage of experience playing with him.

But this just feels tonally off to go from this

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:54 pm vote martin i guess

cereal with knife turned out poorly

to this

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:14 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:23 pm i mean jfc

no one has reasoned to me exactly why someone else is scum

even after I claimed I didn't really have any reads

like the lack of town coordination or ability on display here

is just bad imo overall

fine you can be town

Or at least when I say "fine", or starting with it, it generally has more agitation with it.

Here he could've said:

"ok you can be town"
"I've changed my mind martin is town"
"I don't think martin is scum now"

etc etc etc

Instead he just says "fine you can be town", which looks and feels a lot different to me than from where he originally started as "vote martin I guess"


Granted ofc this could be to me not knowing him well as a player.

Well not lock-town, don't think he said lock but I felt that sort of confidence or impression from him.

Not to mention Mac's lock-town Made is voting Chuck.

You know what I get a sort of towny tone feeling from LC's recent posts

so I kinda trust him + the fact both the wagons yesterday town-read eachother

[VOTE: Speedchuck] aubergine

martin is terrible in his reading this game but lets hope this is the right action

tbh presuming just 2 scum

I'm not feeling too good that we have only 2 more town kills before game over and the scum likely outnumber us

and the fact that two towns have died; one saying Marmot is town, and the other saying marmot is lock mafia

is just giving me no indication on whether my intuition is right or anything

but if I had to guess it would appear there's one scum in marmot/speechuck

the trouble is whom, or better yet if this is even a good assumption to make in the first place

like, sure maybe I'm the consensus town

but I don't know a damm fucking clue about anyone else here

except maybe I was wrong on Marmot and (before the execution) Esooa because they town-read eachother @ _ @

and all I got are guesses and terrible gut reads

because everyone I feel is in a similar position of being scummy or towny

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:42 pm marmot was at 4 and I don't vote him or care to buy marmot moving off me is town lmao

Well yeah it was a more recent development

but maybe I'm being stupid but I feel information-deprived

She also apparently didn't voice a town-read on Marmot until towards EoD as well.

Which seems really freaking weird to me why people hide town-reads...unless they got more certain of it around EoD.

Oh. I thought there was no night. I got mixed up.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:58 pm chuck did vote for esooa without reason except for not wanting to put my wagon in hammerable range

Okay, to answer this more directly earlier:

Esooa didn't bring much if any reason about Chuck (or anyone else I think off the top of my head) until or towards EoD.

The way I work as town, to a degree, is that I consider there must be towns in the game, and therefore I work on who looks best or worst among everyone in that respect.

When a lot of people are not doing much, or doing well or good in one aspect or poor in another, the lines of "who's actually scum" and "who's actually town" gets blurry because I can't tell who's being different because the reasoning

"oh well X towny-looking person did this as well or in a similar manner and therefore should Y action really be that scummy given that towns must exist any game of mafia?"

exists.

Now, if chuck is mafia/evil then I am absolutely somewhat blame-worthy in this but I like to think I don't make mistakes which is why I have my signature.

Also I was voted without reason a few times

so idk about that

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:58 pm So why vote the other wagon or even vote at all?

kinda a bad time to having this question tbh

Okay, fair enough. I checked that.

But I can't save you from 3 votes. No one else is here.

Also Esooa could just be OMGUS'ing.

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:51 pm no meaningful content

I think this is debatable as a few players have done this....

Or to a similar level.

Chuck is actually one I feel that is likely town. Or at least consistently.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:20 pm I've been given a red peek on Martin and don't believe it for a second. Hang in there buddy!

I mean, with this he's supporting me even though at that time I had only one vote on me.

I moved my vote on the basis that I've been mostly lost on D1 and that they're town-reading eachother (the wagons) for the most part

which I wasn't expecting

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:48 pm I've not liked any of his posts lol

if you don't want to get deleted or baked then vote TSP unless you town-read him?

tbh with Esooa + Marmot town-reading eachother

idk what to do

although why are there 15 guests here

Mac is awake around 3PM/4PM EST?

I doubt it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:41 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:40 pm Its 20 minutes to EoD.

Also I thought Marmot voted you?

I'd switched to TSP for his attempted summoning of Mac.

honestly he has no point in doing that as either alignment

Mac isn't going to pop in the next 20 minutes

so I don't really read it tbh

Its 20 minutes to EoD.

Also I thought Marmot voted you?

I don't know if evils get fake claims or not in Nanook's games

but lets be honest a "Vanity Towel" (which marmot has mentioned a few times) doesn't seem all that important, much less likely to be vengeful anyways

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:32 pm marmot is unconcerned for his survival, supposedly that's a town tell

Fine.

I mean, if I scum-read everyone then I clearly am doing something wrong and I'm not finding towns.

Which makes ML's easily happen. So I'm trying to adjust myself to see if I can find towns, or what my gut currently says.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:27 pm I don't think anyone has been particularly town.

"Out of everyone"

Because there has to be towns somewhere.

I don't see anything scummy in Mac's play but I do feel its easily replicable by scum.

Long Con is either someone I don't know how to read or my null. Lean town though since he sheeped Mac so swiftly (if I recall), as I don't imagine mafia sheep early on that easily.

Chardonnay is probably another one of my nulls. I don't have anything about him leaning either way and I feel like I could be biased if I do town-lean him for trying to consolidate my vote with his earlier.

Esooa I've seen better from and I don't know if this is meant to WIFOM me at X level or not. I mean, its town points imo to not (closely) replicate one's town meta but I could be WIFOM'ed into that. Regardless though I like to attach a scum-lean here.

If I had to choose 3 people who I think are probably town so far, out of everyone (in case I do die tonight):

Chuck
Made
TSP