The Syndicate

GGs, I guess.

I was 100% right about Seanzie being sus d1

But, whatever. I wasn't going to stay on that forever if not enough people were going to town up.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:34 pm *pokes thread with a stick*

Clearly you're mafia buds with Cobalt, since you have never poked him with a stick!

guys I figured it out

I'm joking.

If anything you're the one derp cleared here SSF lol

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:03 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:56 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:52 pm Pretty sure maf have to kill me tonight, then town absolutely has to vote NO LYNCH in F4 and let mafia kill mac.

If cobalt is mafia then that works....if there aren't 3 mafia as well

Otherwise if there's 2 or 3 mafia at F4 no yeet wouldn't work easily if not be impossible. At least, when I host, no yeet needs more votes than any other wagon at minimum (and I generally take the unusual step and say it has to be bigger than all the votes combined that vote for something other than no yeet)

No sure how to process this attempted derp clear from you, but if there are 3mafia left the game would've ended already.

No it wouldn't.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:48 pm 2 Mafia - Become the majority[\u] and take control!

With 3 players they would not be that.

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:52 pm Pretty sure maf have to kill me tonight, then town absolutely has to vote NO LYNCH in F4 and let mafia kill mac.

If cobalt is mafia then that works....if there aren't 3 mafia as well

Otherwise if there's 2 or 3 mafia at F4 no yeet wouldn't work easily if not be impossible. At least, when I host, no yeet needs more votes than any other wagon at minimum (and I generally take the unusual step and say it has to be bigger than all the votes combined that vote for something other than no yeet)

If there were 2 mafia at the start

and mac is mafia

then it's just 3-3 votes and town can't win unless RNG

unless an exception is being made in the case that Cobalt is a wolf and just hasn't been voting this whole game oooooor mac isn't mafia for some reason

[VOTE: cobalt] aubergine

lets keep being moronic then

[VOTE: MartinGG99] aubergine

well gee

wish I were a wolf now

would seem so much smarter

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:47 pm I don't believe calling someone a wolf is an insult frankly. Also mac's point was that you didn't consider that Rondo might have been reanimated as scum.

okay clearly I need to clean this up:

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:40 am this is moronic sorry to say. But you are a wolf so I understand

because if he's town then he's making one that insults me (or, from their view, potentially insults me) by describing my actions as moronic in the chance that I am town (and I most certainly am)

if he's scum here then he's still insulting me by knowing I am town (or 3p I guess, but regardless not mafia)

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF HES SCUM OR TOWN HERE TO ME.

And mac walks in and says "oh hey this is tmi"

like are you freaking kidding me

Doesn't mean I can't suspect if someone is looking to take advantage of my atitude.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:40 pm It's borderline absurd to try and push Mac for making a halfway decent accusation.

I was critizing logic which is imperfect, and I pointed out how.

As for "pushing" mac, I think I've already said my piece on chopping non-formerly-dead players.

Clearly, its always okay to say things that totally would insult someone if they're town

so long as you don't know there alignment


and if LP flips town here then fml because I dont want to deal with Rondo or Mac or any of this crap any more

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:37 pm This also doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I see you have taken Rondo's advice huh

*cough cough* totally not opportunistic shade *cough cough*

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:25 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:20 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:18 pm Also pointing out who ever I vote for LP keeps following

Stop making good votes then.

Well I guess you just did. :P

Honestly though I fail to see why Martin. I don't follow your and Mac's convo at all.

Martin did a thing I often see mafia do where they telegraph TMI by trying to guilt trip how a player is going to feel about things in post. It implies they know the person is town. It's a semi common mafia slip.

The problem with that logic is that it never considers how likely a town is to say that.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:50 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:01 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:40 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:25 pm Really should only be voting the dead when we've caught every non-dead evil imo. If there's a night-kill after that then we'll know if the reanimated dead have become mafia or not.

this is moronic sorry to say. But you are a wolf so I understand

could you not implicitly insult me

it doesn't look good on you post-game when I flip town

This is the second time youve used the "Oh you're going to regret it when I flip town" rand!scum to use it this often imho tbh ftr

I only said it again because it was an insult

Normally people actually interact with me

not play all of d1, drop dead d2 only to return questioning their own town-reads, and then get shocked that they got misyeeted and then take it all out on one guy that they just don't like for whatever reason

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:40 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:25 pm Really should only be voting the dead when we've caught every non-dead evil imo. If there's a night-kill after that then we'll know if the reanimated dead have become mafia or not.

this is moronic sorry to say. But you are a wolf so I understand

could you not implicitly insult me

it doesn't look good on you post-game when I flip town

I can't tell if that's referring to me because for all I know posts could've been deleted.

On the off chance that it is referring to me:

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

I suppose I'll just find someone else to vote.

Like....

[VOTE: Cobalt] aubergine

Slot needs to go anyways

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:25 pm Really should only be voting the reanimated

Ebwop, I'm playing two games with resurrection or pseudeo-ressurection mechanics and it gets confusing sometimes.

Not mentioning more of the other game.

Really should only be voting the dead when we've caught every non-dead evil imo. If there's a night-kill after that then we'll know if the reanimated dead have become mafia or not.

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:21 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:18 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:15 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:05 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:24 pm I definitely kill the resurrected civilian N2 no matter how they approached the thread. Absolutely no way I allow someone who's essentially town cleared by EVERYONE, to see another day. Maf needs a wide open PoE, leaving a town cleared player alive is a terrible play.

how come they don't kill you last night then

The only real way to accomplish placing doubt on mine or Mac's alignment would be to allow us to live.
Can't kill us both in the same night, however it did occur to me that there is a possibility Mac had an alignment switch. He's a highly regarded player here, so it is odd he didn't get MK'd, however there's nothing saying mafia don't have a role cop and got a hit on Porscha (if she is/was a special)

But I kinda get the feeling you might have an idea why. Why do you think Mac wasn't killed?

My previously-mentioned theory that Porcha was quite possibly the town reanimator.

So both you and LP keep saying "town reanimator", like there's more than one reanimator. Yet early game when I asked the thread if anyone was familiar with this setup I got crickets.
So my assumption was the 3p is the reanimator, but I guess you're telling me I'm wrong, and I should've been voting Mac since his reanimation?

No, I think its optimal to solve in the people who have not died or reanimated given that if there is an evil reanimator of some sort then they're among those who haven't been revived. Same goes for the wolves and 3p who have not flipped.

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:15 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:05 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:24 pm I definitely kill the resurrected civilian N2 no matter how they approached the thread. Absolutely no way I allow someone who's essentially town cleared by EVERYONE, to see another day. Maf needs a wide open PoE, leaving a town cleared player alive is a terrible play.

how come they don't kill you last night then

The only real way to accomplish placing doubt on mine or Mac's alignment would be to allow us to live.
Can't kill us both in the same night, however it did occur to me that there is a possibility Mac had an alignment switch. He's a highly regarded player here, so it is odd he didn't get MK'd, however there's nothing saying mafia don't have a role cop and got a hit on Porscha (if she is/was a special)

But I kinda get the feeling you might have an idea why. Why do you think Mac wasn't killed?

My previously-mentioned theory that Porcha was quite possibly the town reanimator.

In which case either you are making up your claim

or DrWilgy gave you a bad card

like even DrWilgy mentions it here in the OP

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:48 pm Example Vanilla Civ message:

Congrats! You are a vanilla civilian! Eliminate the threats to the town!

you saying this

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:40 pm I breifly wondered if I missed in my rolecard a wincon or something since one was never given, but I assume Civ means Town and if I were Indy I would have been given a goal of any kind.

suggests that you have not seen something like "Eliminate the threats to the town!"

if we're wrong about you then just be upset at DrWilgy for giving out inconsistent role-cards

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:23 pm Martin is basically announcing he is Mafia with this opportunistic half assed push.

its simple policy

Flanders is right about the wincon thing

are you suggesting any other civ in my shoes is just gonna quietly ignore that

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:24 pm I definitely kill the resurrected civilian N2 no matter how they approached the thread. Absolutely no way I allow someone who's essentially town cleared by EVERYONE, to see another day. Maf needs a wide open PoE, leaving a town cleared player alive is a terrible play.

how come they don't kill you last night then

I'll probably pop back in here later to do more things. Can't help but feel like I might be the NK tonight (especially if LP flips 3p), so I rather leave a legacy of some sort than just "oh vote LP"

[VOTE: LP] aubergine

On the point that they mentioned no clarity on the wincon.

Everything else seemed mostly fine to me imo, so maybe they're 3p.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:13 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:07 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:04 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:49 pm LPs description of their rolecard is questionable.

I think these sorts of lines of inquiry might be against the rules, as specific details of a rolecard I think usually counts as angleshooting, and angleshooting is not allowed. I'm not modding this game, but I'd recommend not pursuing this (or possibly ask our host if this sort of thing is allowed before continuing) because minimally this is on the borderline of what it allowed, if not over it.

Then LP shouldn't have brought a sketchy description of a likely bunk rolecard into play.

I'm not asking, I'm saying WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT THEIR ROLECARD IS SKETCH.

But if that crosses the line, I'll take the GK and feel shame.

Sure, and that's fair. I don't think you did anything wrong, just wanted to mention it before it became a huge topic of discussion in case I'm right and it is against the rules.

smh seanzie we're supposed to be scum hunting not good-for-nothing hunting

jk lol

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:04 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:52 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:49 pm LPs description of their rolecard is questionable.

I'd like to hear those questions then.

And who supposedly would have been the reanimator which (apparently) is not CC'ing LP.

If LP were mafia here then I think its highly likely that the peseudoBP explanation they have is legitimately what happened when they tried attacking either a 3p reanimator or the civ reanimator (the latter being more likely imo). Especially when the DOOM kill still does not make much or any sense --- especially with players like Rondo being town.

I'm civilian, my wincon is eliminate all threats to town.
I find it extremely hard to believe a Town aligned power role would not be given a wincon in their dm.

I also find it hard to believe LP would know if they were shot at and the attempted hit was redirected.

The Mafia choice for MK on Doom is more likely to do with the thread state accepting her as town, and no conversation of potential alignment switching occurred until after the double rez of Mac and myself.

Imo it's more likely LP is mafia or 3p than town.

I'm not sure they claimed to know it. They said it was obvious after having explained that they thought there was no 2nd reanimator and had a 1-shot pseudoBP vest.

Personally, if I were them, I would've heavily suspected it because I don't think anyone kills DOOM there, and so in the case that LP is town then this conclusion is not odd at all.

As for the wincon thing.....now that you mention it, I guess you're right about that. I hadn't even realized TBH. Seems like suicide to not mention a wincon though....

Also @LinearPoint if your pronoun is "she" then I want to apologize if I ever referred to you via the wrong pronoun

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:59 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:45 pm I think the only way LP is mafia here is if:

Porscha was the Civ Reanimator

Otherwise I don't see how would they explain the Doom kill. Doom had just helped got Flanders ML'ed, and so there's not a whole lot of incentive to kill DOOM there especially when there could be much more concerning players who are scum. Such as rondo, who was confirmed to be town at one point, or myself.

I see the point about reviving Mac, but I think the mafia killings (and the fact that no one is CC'ing LinearPoint) speaks louder to me.

How does Porscha being reanimator explain the DoOm kill? I assumed DoOm was killed to keep the collection of live players (the basket that contains two mafia and a 3p) as large as possible for as long as possible, granted that doesn't fit perfectly with the Porscha kill, but that could be explained if one/both of Flanders and Mac are evil, in particular Mac (as a Flanders kill would more-or-less put a huge spotlight on Mac)

LP not being CC'd is giving me some pause, but Porscha or even possibly Rondo could have been reanimator (Rondo not CC'ing either because he hasn't been around or because his alignment changed), or people could be reanimated via some other method rather than from direct ability use, so idk how much stock to put into this. LP's play with regards to her claimed role though doesn't make sense to me.

Step 1:

Attack Porscha, get redirected to DOOM

Step 2:

Attack Porscha again because they're obviously some sort of PR and could easily explain the DOOM kill

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:52 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:49 pm LPs description of their rolecard is questionable.

That's because it was.

wat

you know the most common connotation of "questionable" is negative right?

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:49 pm LPs description of their rolecard is questionable.

I'd like to hear those questions then.

And who supposedly would have been the reanimator which (apparently) is not CC'ing LP.

If LP were mafia here then I think its highly likely that the peseudoBP explanation they have is legitimately what happened when they tried attacking either a 3p reanimator or the civ reanimator (the latter being more likely imo). Especially when the DOOM kill still does not make much or any sense --- especially with players like Rondo being town.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:45 pm more concerning players who are town

ebwop

I think the only way LP is mafia here is if:

Porscha was the Civ Reanimator

Otherwise I don't see how would they explain the Doom kill. Doom had just helped got Flanders ML'ed, and so there's not a whole lot of incentive to kill DOOM there especially when there could be much more concerning players who are scum. Such as rondo, who was confirmed to be town at one point, or myself.

I see the point about reviving Mac, but I think the mafia killings (and the fact that no one is CC'ing LinearPoint) speaks louder to me.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:03 pm It's also hard to believe there is a second Civ reanimator considering the role gets a 1-shot pseudoBP., night kills are redirected to a player you revived instead. Obviously that's what happened to Doom N2.

okay that does explain things a bit

but if there is a 3p reanimator I suspect you're not removed from that possibility

this is what I didn't like, feels like they're ignoring the fact that unless the wagoned players are the scum, scum (including the 3p, whoever that is) are voting there as well

feels like a weird contentment and not intending to make much out of it

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:16 pm Im honestly fine with both of these lynchs. They both are decently likely to be scum though I think Rondo has really fallen off ik the last day. So I think rondo edges out Marmot for scummy.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:56 pm @MartinGG99 can I get some updated reads and thoughts on the game? In particular, I think it is still best to elim among the never-deads, so your thoughts there would be appreciated.

I kinda screwed heavily with my sleep, and last day phase ended 24 hours earlier than I expected it to.

So I haven't been here much for awhile, but I'm back now. I do recall seeing some sort of post yesterday that I felt was notable, but idk if it was Porscha or LP.

Also kinda wondering why we got votes on Marmot & Rondo and yet practically no one went to wagon other possibilities such as Cobalt or Creature (except Creature themselves). At a glance it makes me feel like scum want Marmot as a wagon to kill an original townie, for whatever reason.

I've seen people say they suspect Marmot because he's been nearly chopped twice now, but I don't think that's entirely reasonable. I do recall a mafia game run by ddl where he was nearly chopped the whole game, but I haven't looked at it yet to see if there are similarities or differences. Actually the quote in Marmot's signature is from that game if anyone wants to look at it before I do.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:40 am I also didn't like rondo's eod yesterday but i'm not sure if it's bad enough to make me feel like he's a for sure yeet already when hardly anything has happened today

Who else would you want to look at today though?

Well, some of my reasons come down to what I think the scum would do in so-and-so position. I'm not going to expect you (or anyone else) to agree with it without question.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:29 am I guess I sort of feel like... even if I *had* pushed for a seanzie flashwagon:

so what? that makes my slot less town from seanzie's perspective?

If I were in Seanzie's shoes, probably.

But rn I kinda don't feel like its all that relevant. I largely believe like you're town based on our past interactions and I feel like your eod doesn't really change that. Regardless though, even if I did suspect you more because of it, it wouldn't change my opinion that Rondo should be the yeet today.

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:50 am

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:01 am [vimeo][/vimeo]

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:48 am

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:48 am Porscha, Mac

Marmot

Sean, LP, Martin

Rondo
Creature
Cobalt -> 3p

This is mostly where I am at with Martin and LP a little higher, and Porscha and Marmot a little lower.

Porscha's D2 fact finding mission when Doom had the EOD chain of events all mixed up was town work. There'd be no reason for wolves to essentially stick their neck out in an exercise to expose truths.

I agree that her defending you when she didn't have to looks good, especially after your town flip, but she was pushing for a flashwagon on me that almost happened without actually joining it herself, which doesn't sit well with me.

I absolutely did not push for a flashwagon on y ou lmao

tends to look like it when one asks about whether ppl (especially when asking anyone in general) are flashwagoning someone

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:40 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:16 am I think Marmot is likely town. Not impossibly mafia, but unlikely.

So I'm at:

Seanzie
Flanders
Porscha
Marmot

as all likely or very probably town

I suspect something like

rondo -> creature -> one of cobalt/lp, probably cobalt as I dont want to ever lose to an afk slot -> one of lp/marmot

Creature is quite low simply because I don't have any confidence in reading them, and also I kinda feel like they're the sort to not care about a double-yeet all that much even if scum.

Why is Flanders but not Mac on that list?

I didn't realize more than one town had been revived. It's easy to mistake it as flavor text when its all pink, and only one of the revived posted.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:19 am

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:50 am Honestly the only reason I would even consider otherwise is the 1 kill each night and so far 3 town revives, but conversion roles I find are usually really hated by players.

I think the game would be kind of unbalanced if every player that is revived is town, so I'd be willing to bet that there are not town players being revived at some point, and they're either wolf or 3p instead. Now, being able to revive a wolf would probably be too obvious, so reviving a town as a wolf would be more useful for them there. Do you think that's reasonable?

Yesterday I do remember sean made a good point that there are still 2 wolves among the original players, given the amount of unknowns among the revived, I think it's better to continue looking there.

This is what I think too at this point

Three revives seems a lot, but I really don't want to deal with that until we find the original baddies. Plus, whoever is doing nefarious things with the revives, HAS to be among the original baddies.

I think Marmot is likely town. Not impossibly mafia, but unlikely.

So I'm at:

Seanzie
Flanders
Porscha
Marmot

as all likely or very probably town

I suspect something like

rondo -> creature -> one of cobalt/lp, probably cobalt as I dont want to ever lose to an afk slot -> one of lp/marmot

Creature is quite low simply because I don't have any confidence in reading them, and also I kinda feel like they're the sort to not care about a double-yeet all that much even if scum.

[VOTE: Rondo] aubergine

1. Avoided most of d2 while being perhaps most TR player from d1 (probably most optimal strat for scum on d2 if they can do it....even more so given t/t fight as it makes it unlikely for them to be double-yeet while creating an environment to scumpaint people with on d3+)

2. nearly (if not did) town-core'd seanzie early d2

3. sheeps seanzie near EoD because they couldn't get cobalt

4. went back on that at EoD over one thing (and idc if that one thing is correct or not --- town core shouldn't be in voting range in such swift fashion because it suggests you never believed in your previous reasons for TRing them lol)

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:56 pm Martin, why are you voting falcon?

Haven't seen posts from him before in a town game of his

where he is directly interacting or duking it out with flanders

memory may not be 100% correct but for certain I don't see it often

regardless though I think chopping one of (but not both) of flac/flanders is correct