The Syndicate

robyn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:18 am

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:12 am So this is like a Stunseed situation? Jot it.

what's that

Remind me in a day or two.

robyn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:17 am
anyway now that i'm on laptop i can articulate myself better

1) are you fine with a long explanation tomorrow? i'll put like 700 words into it, i have things to say and flesh out myself, dizzy and schweppes and you and mac all being here makes it worthwhile
2) are you trying to townlead this game? and would you ever try to chop me d1?

also thinking about me as a mystery box is a common phenomenon, or as an enigma. do you believe you can't accurately read me so you're trying to throw the lights on a dangerous blindspot and getting a consensus opinion on me. or do you believe that i will act in such a way which can be debated at length, and you're gonna just try to read everyone off how they read me? (with the added caveat that you know i like to play at the very center of things, and are obliging me (are you doing this knowingly/intentionally?))

1. you don't need to ask my permission... as you note, several players from that game being here makes it something that is going to be a topic regardless. I am and remain very curious, yes.
2a. god I hope not, I knew going in this game has mac and windward and dizzy in it and I was hoping they'd be obvious town leads so I can just sit back and compile reads later in the day. No prior experience with leetic but now they are in the pile too. I will if I have to but I was really hoping for a chill game for once. After what happened in the NPCs game last year especially.
2b. If you were my top strong scumread for whatever reason/s, yes - I don't believe in universal d1 passes for anyone, I think that promotes toxic cliquey gameplay. Every game is different and every player should be evaluated on their merits This Game.
3. You're the player I know the best out of the people posting in earlygame, and also one of the ones I know the best in general, so I feel it is sort of my job to try and read you and get others reading you, yes. It's a good starting point, especially given the alternative of adding to the wind/leetic hurricane. I think you are very difficult for most players to read accurately, such that most people won't really bother to try beyond shrug-guessing, and you had me fooled for a good chunk of SCI '23. The best model I have of you is that you prefer control and don't like other players putting the spotlight directly on you early as scum, hence the early force play.

So this is like a Stunseed situation? Jot it.

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:56 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:51 pm - leetic, if you are town, the playstyle you're currently pursuing is going to go straight into mafia's hands by exhausting the entire game. I implore you to be aware of this and measure your pace and level of aggression a bit more, for both fun value and town analysis value. <3

Lame. Besides, wolves should be "exhausted".

I do understand this point of view, I used to play that way myself many years ago. What I've found with experience though is that town gets exhausted much more easily than wolves do. I can't remember the last time I saw a wolf team lose to exhaustion who weren't losing on many other fronts anyway, but I have seen towns succumb to it quite a bit. We don't need to hash it more though, just keep it in mind. <3

Robyn - why exactly is Schweppes alting bad enough to you that you want to blow it up?

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:26 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:25 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:22 pm They did however call out Bereft as being Schweppes (who was also in that game) which is... an interesting play.

Interesting how? Guys, ya know that "interesting" isn't an excuse to just say nothing about something

Also, what are your thoughts on Windward?

We could have gotten some data on people by looking at who knew Bereft=Schweppes and who didn't. Outing them immediately closes off that play. I don't love that, but there is the argument that it's a lateral trade because now people can use their meta reads on Schweppes right away. It's definitely an intentional move on robyn's part to out them, so the question here is what is the motivation to do that?

... that's not going to satisfy you (leetic) though, because judging from your second question and your entire gameplay so far, you are in an archetype of player who demands binary town or scumreads on everything from everyone at all times, and saying "I'll tell you maybe in 48 hours, or maybe on day 2 or 3 after the game has shaken out some and we have more data" is just going to tick you off and make you accuse me of hedging. So I will try to meet you halfway here and say this:

- I'm leaning g2h scum on robyn at present, but not enough to vig, barely enough to maybe vote if we were able. We'll see how this progresses. I don't think it's good to pursue it very far right now. Incorporating robyn's response I see in previews, I agree they often appear scummy d1 and are easier to solve with time. I do think it's good for people to try to make reads and engage rather than just saying "robyn is a mystery box."

- I don't have windward as easy town either. I think wind is a player who massively highposts as any alignment, and I find the disregard for thread health coupled with insistence that her own opinion "doesn't matter" to be confusing at best. p#65 may also be an intentional backwards read to set up this spar with leetic super early on; I think thread health is very important and that fight was detrimental to it and I've seen this sort of "get in a loud fight early and then get everyone to back off and say it's town vs town" tactic dozens of times. BUT I've also seen actual town do this, I'm not sure on leetic's alignment (though I have them as more town than wind, I've only seen this style of scumming from a few players like holyflare), and above all I don't think it's good to whip the thread into loudly set positions this early on. There's a lot going on in the background here too.

- leetic, if you are town, the playstyle you're currently pursuing is going to go straight into mafia's hands by exhausting the entire game. I implore you to be aware of this and measure your pace and level of aggression a bit more, for both fun value and town analysis value. <3

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:08 pm
Can Ranmilla please entertain me by answering why exactly they felt the need to make this request?

Robyn is one of the players I have the most recent experience with. We played together in MU's Spec Chat Invitational 2022 and were both town; they engaged in an unusual playstyle of doing very little in the first two days and committing to hard sheeping me, which made me paranoid but not in a position to do anything about it since I was trying to lead town. I was nightkilled, my main suspect flipped scum, and robyn followed up with a surprise thunderdome on the second mafia.

Then they played in this year's SCI as well, rolled scum, and played a similar mystery box sort of game until getting blown up by Mac subbing in and countering their fakeclaim. (I'm sure Mac will have more detail on this when he shows up, if you're interested.)

What I'm looking for here is
1. a starting point for other people in this game to get serious looks at robyn, as they play "intuitively" and thus are difficult to form reads on
2. a forcing move to get robyn to break down their recent scum game and explain some of their scum mindset and decision making, hopefully to contrast to this game.

Which... they didn't really do, just saying "played bad because I was drunk" to the whole thing and not going into any detail on mindset. I was hoping for a bit more, but here we are.
They did however call out Bereft as being Schweppes (who was also in that game) which is... an interesting play.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:44 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:40 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:35 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:32 pm There's plenty of solving going on, just have patience.

Such as?

Gira probably town for caring about thread health. [redacted] and [redacted] tentative good look for not knowing [redacted.]

I don't like these kinds of reads, either. But I don't think my opinion really matters.

What don't you like and why do you not think your opinion matters?

robyn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:46 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:42 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:42 pm leetic is right, we must solve the game as fast as possible, once dyslexicon starts posting nobody will be able to focus on solving, guys and girls and others alike

True. You gonna have some free time tonight?

work at 6:55am tomorrow, so i’ll be posting here for a couple more hours tonight

Off the top of your head, please walk me through an overview of your SCI game.

robyn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:42 pm leetic is right, we must solve the game as fast as possible, once dyslexicon starts posting nobody will be able to focus on solving, guys and girls and others alike

True. You gonna have some free time tonight?

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:35 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:32 pm There's plenty of solving going on, just have patience.

Such as?

Gira probably town for caring about thread health. [redacted] and [redacted] tentative good look for not knowing [redacted.]

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:28 pm If I could, I would vote WindwardAway here

Yeah, but the thing is, we can't vote, for an entire day, so if y'all could hit the brakes just a little and not immediately get into spammy angry fights, that'd be wonderful. <3

There's plenty of solving going on, just have patience.

It's about a (quite excellent) TV show, which we get to quote relentlessly, because we are real people and we get to make the decisions.

Hello friends. I love you all, and I love everything about you... equally.