The Syndicate

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 5:21 am Just to address this quickly

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:21 pm Fwiw, I don't think my take on your gameplay was wrong. I wasn't trying to say you were an LHF elim addict, I was concerned that you hadn't committed to many other reads while your vote was on Falcon, like your read on Epi:
From my perspective, you were often one step in advance of judging my activity.

When I parked a vote on inactive Falcon, I was clear that the gamestate had three inactives out of nine and it was worth contemplating flipping them and that it was placeholder pending better reads.
Then I snapped at Zenon, then return to the same vote and same placehold till reads mindset.

That this sequenced pinged you is fine, but this is what it is, it was not serious and it was not something to stamp me as intent to lynch inactives and skirt otherwise.

Then: end of first night (Sunday), I write short notes on several that would constitute my PoE. But I did say it was "unresearched". Splints took issue with it. You as well. Okay. But it was still far off from "not pushing my suspicions".

Then, even with time limitations, I do ISOs on Epig, Falcon and PSV. Falcon is no longer judged for inactivity, hence I don't fit the "wants to lynch inactives and push nobody else" bill anymore. And of Epig and PSV you only focus on Epig and call it unsatisfactory in deciding if he's wolf. True somewhat, but I was wary enough to not have confidence in what he was doing. I felt worse about PSV in my ISOs and that was my closest wolf read of the phase.

As a player, I am not a firm voice on tagging townies and wolves in my reads, never have been. My reads will contain a lot of doubts and turning things on both sides and what-ifs and tinfoil scenarios. If I get flak for not being decisive, I get it. Almost got me mislynched, nothing novel there either. But, as I've expressed, I find you processed all the info the wrong way and at times you projected a worse picture of my activity or demanded more than I had managed to actually deliver.

Thanks for the explanation, and it very well could have been a playstyle difference that I wolfread. I actually wasn't under the impression that the whole sequence with Falcon and Zenon wasn't serious.

Zenon wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 4:08 am
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 10:34 pm Where I'm at right now:
Town:
Zenon
Splints
Roxy
PoE:
Falcon
Porscha
Rico
Holy crap how am I top town

I had a lot of town pings from you - in addition to the early ones I mentioned before and the you/Splints fight, I thought you wanting to die and be resolved at EoD was more likely to come from town.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:37 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:35 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:29 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:28 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:25 pm Idk, last minute switches or CFDs usually throw me off, makes me want to eyeball it as wolfy. But then, what logic would a wolf find in doing it and get eyeballed for it, is what I’m pondering.

Why do you say jumping off a wagon that will prove a mislynch is a “good thing” or how do you read it as a town move?
I don't read it as town. I'm saying that it might be perceived as town by the thread because Porscha's vote didn't land on the mislim.
What's your (level 1) take, then?
I didn't like it and thought it could be trying not to get her hands dirty. Specifically I didn't like that Porscha voiced disagreement about my reasons for townreading PSV without vocally pushing PSV at the time and then got off at the last minute.
Without pushing vocally PSV at what time, more exactly? Cause vote-wise she was with the vote almost all the way through.

The EoD stretch after PSV returned.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:29 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:28 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:25 pm Idk, last minute switches or CFDs usually throw me off, makes me want to eyeball it as wolfy. But then, what logic would a wolf find in doing it and get eyeballed for it, is what I’m pondering.

Why do you say jumping off a wagon that will prove a mislynch is a “good thing” or how do you read it as a town move?
I don't read it as town. I'm saying that it might be perceived as town by the thread because Porscha's vote didn't land on the mislim.
What's your (level 1) take, then?

I didn't like it and thought it could be trying not to get her hands dirty. Specifically I didn't like that Porscha voiced disagreement about my reasons for townreading PSV without vocally pushing PSV at the time and then got off at the last minute.

I'm going to bed. Rico's analysis is the kind of info and logic I really enjoy picking apart and engaging with. I think just how much he deduced and picked things apart from the viewpoint of "these were t/t wagons" and treating them as equally plausible for wolves to be on rather than the easier stances of "wolves were on PSV" or "wolves were on me" makes me think I might have just been wrong on him.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:25 pm Idk, last minute switches or CFDs usually throw me off, makes me want to eyeball it as wolfy. But then, what logic would a wolf find in doing it and get eyeballed for it, is what I’m pondering.

Why do you say jumping off a wagon that will prove a mislynch is a “good thing” or how do you read it as a town move?

I don't read it as town. I'm saying that it might be perceived as town by the thread because Porscha's vote didn't land on the mislim.

I definitely need to ISO Zenon, Roxy, and Splints when I have the time since I feel like there's a good chance I'm wrong on at least one of them.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:07 pm Bottom line, two out of three wagons were town (PSV and myself) and were the strongest wagons during almost the entire EoD (Zenon wagon very marginal and a very last-minute push into contention). It’s likely one wolf or both was on these wagons.

How do I feel about my wagon voters’ motives?
-- Thunal voted me for a wrong picture of my gameplay or out of an over-demand that I had been serious (or more serious) in my gameplay.
-- Zenon voted me for an inaccurate or, worse, inflate picture of my gameplay.
-- PSV rip
I think Splints could have also voted me, she seemed to distrust every bit of my D2 gameplay and agreed with suspicions on me. Imagining a wolf Splints scenario, this sequence of suss’ing me but never voting me would look very sketchy and non-committal.
I think Epignosis could have also voted me off. Imagining a wolf Epignosis scenario, I can’t think of a reason why he would have spared me.

How do I feel about PSV’s voters’ motives?
-- I'm town, already proving mastery in mislynching
-- Falcon sheeped Porscha’s take on PSV
-- Roxy made a tiebreak vote, unreasoned
-- Epignosis rip also made a tiebreak vote, having profiled PSV as mafia in one prior post. As I’ve said, wolf Epignosis would have had mislynches on both scales of the balance, therefore likely not give a damn which mislynch to carry through.
-- There was also Porscha with a close-to-permanent vote on PSV. Was her reasoning (the a-ha on a potential TMI) the most enlightening and convincing? Wouldn’t say so upon re-read. But as I’ve said, a wolf Porscha not remaining content to bury PSV for good would be a very odd choice of a shady EoD move to make and be judged for.
-- There was also an early Zenon vote with no strong reasoning.

I think the PSV wagon was sketchier than mine, I would single out Zenon from mine and Falcon, Roxy from PSV’s. Hence my PoE at this point. There’s also Splints to consider as a potential wolf not getting their hands dirty, but bugger if I can tell from the votes’ angle alone.

Fwiw, I don't think my take on your gameplay was wrong. I wasn't trying to say you were an LHF elim addict, I was concerned that you hadn't committed to many other reads while your vote was on Falcon, like your read on Epi:

Ricochet wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 1:03 pm
I have no lock on this being superficial town or superficial wolf behaviour, but slight lean to think that minimal / low-on-time town Epig would poke more, pressure vote more, fish one or two ISO posts and judge right away, see what sticks, win or lose - and such. All I've re-read is on wary vibe.

and your PoE post:

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 4:33 pm my unresearched POE, probably

splints - better impression of her defense of not being an intimidated player, but scroll back and don't get a sense of what she's looking into, both her non-falcon poe choices seem just players she was at odds with during certain debates (either defensive w. Zenon or on lynch principles with me)
falcon - placeholder for slackaward
Zenon - very chaotic and not familiar with the tell that she would issue strong town reads, but have this much trouble to issue wolf reads - is it towny tell, is it wolfy tell of her?
ShelterVet - always appears to have a moment of contribution, but then look back and the reads aren't that clear and just switched between two votes with thin-to-no substantiation

Talk to me more about the bolded Splints thing. Do you think w!Splints would try to avoid looking sketchy and noncommittal here?

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:04 pm Several curiosities and takes:

1. Porscha’s last-minute switch off the mislynch (Epignosis stated that he almost hammered it) should in all likelihood not prove a wolf move – in that, I can’t think why a wolf would make themselves look so sketchy by getting jitters on capitalizing a mislynch they had drafted as part of the PoE and stayed on for almost the entire phase. I am more accustomed (from the Anniv 4 game) to town questioning their choices and/or 180ing wagons and/or CFD’ing so last moment style – unless this move itself is one mighty psych tactic.

2. There should be almost no worlds in which Falcon or Porscha are teamed with Zenon, given how their switch votes on Zenon could have impacted her lynch (near buss scenario). Falcon made it 2-2-2, Porscha made it so Zenon could have entered a tie-break (had PSV self-pres’d) – both among the worst odds of getting their teammate chopped. There’s also Splints to add to this thought process; a wolf team-up would already be weird or unlikely to consider, given their thread infighting (worst case scenario, a quite deplorable and ugly gambit of distancing); an early buss-vote plant, with little control over how Zenon’s lynch could unfold or not, would also be an unlikely

3. Splints was active up until Epignosis unvoted (Roxy) and the state of the vote was a very spread out Rico 2 - Falcon 1 - Zenon 1 - PSV 1 - Splints 1 - Epig 1. For all their shared animosity, I think Splints failed to mention whether she in fact sees a wolf play in Zenon; on the other hand, she expressed enough displeasure, on principle or on several pings, in regards to me. So I’m puzzled as to why she did not choose to put her final vote on me, given momentum and a stronger wolfy read of me. Perhaps a wolf hesitance to cast a stamp on a mislynch.

4. Same puzzlement on why Epig never voted to flip and solve me, after a week-long placement in his PoE. He did not state that he no longer reads me wolf, just that he won’t react on principle or just give me a pass in light of a perceived taunt. But here’s the thing, since Epignosis broke the tie in the end: I don’t think wolf Epignosis would have cared one bit which way to swing between two townies, that he had crafted suspicions on.

Hi Rico! I haven't dug into your chart yet but I will. As far as the Porscha thing - why would she necessarily think that would make her look sketchy? The level 1 take is that not being on the mislim is a good thing and I think there are a lot of people who would go with that level 1 take.

I agree w/ the unpairings. I also think Falcon/you are unpaired and Zenon/Splints are unpaired.

That's an interesting point about Splints, and I think it would have made sense from what she said in the thread to land on you.

I still think the sequence of Roxy dipping after her frustration and then regaining motivation was towny though.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 10:42 pm Thunal can you agree with me that Roxy's eod was wolfy

It's a bunch of nothing and she voted PSV just to break the tie. I'm not sure if it's wolfy for her but I'd find it wolfy in a vacuum.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 7:00 pm I've cooled on Roxy.

I don't think fingersplints is mafia.

falcon, maybe, but if you haven't the time, you haven't the time. Posts there look organic rather than "I've got to say something." Not a vote for me today.

I don't like Rico daring me to take the bait in voting him, and maybe that's his out today, but I'm not taking it.

Thunal is playing the best mafia member I've seen in a while if that is indeed the case. Very strategic if bad. Also not a vote for me today.

That leaves me with Porscha, potentialsheltervet, and Zenon.

Epi had Porscha, PSV, Zenon, and Rico in his PoE. As far as whether he was killed for reads, I don't know, but there has to be a reason why he was killed over me.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 10:40 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 10:33 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:42 pm There's not a lot of PSV content to go off of but what I saw had a couple minor town pings. Her immediately townreading Roxy for frustration looks good in hindsight since I feel like a wolf would keep what is probably t!Roxy in the PoE. I also like that she asked me to read Zenon and pushed Rico over Zenon after I gave a townlean.
you like a lot of things which is nice but you should consider that you could be getting pocketed or that just b/c someone gives in and provides a tr after a sr does not make them townier

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:48 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:46 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:42 pm There's not a lot of PSV content to go off of but what I saw had a couple minor town pings. Her immediately townreading Roxy for frustration looks good in hindsight since I feel like a wolf would keep what is probably t!Roxy in the PoE. I also like that she asked me to read Zenon and pushed Rico over Zenon after I gave a townlean.
you like a lot of things which is nice but you should consider that you could be getting pocketed or that just b/c someone gives in and provides a tr after a sr does not make them townier
I think a lot of people have been towny this game so it's hard to me to find a solve. It's not a general tell, it's that in this specific case I think it's a little more likely to come from a town to immediately TR Roxy for the frustration and not falter when Roxy was under a lot of pressure and scum might keep their options open.
was psv the first person to extend that sentiment? I read it and immediately thought it was very towny
Porscha is in my PoE because I think her EoD is wolfy. She tried to talk me off defending PSV then got cold feet and voted Zenon at 8:58 right before EoD. It reads like she wanted to get PSV eliminated and subtly swayed the thread that way but tried not to get her own hands dirty.
I became aware that psv no longer seemed wolfy and the eod in general was bad which is what made me change my mind

I could have just as easily not moved my vote and committed to the bit if it was fake lol

wdym by the EoD in general was bad?

Where I'm at right now:
Town:
Zenon
Splints
Roxy
PoE:
Falcon
Porscha
Rico

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:42 pm There's not a lot of PSV content to go off of but what I saw had a couple minor town pings. Her immediately townreading Roxy for frustration looks good in hindsight since I feel like a wolf would keep what is probably t!Roxy in the PoE. I also like that she asked me to read Zenon and pushed Rico over Zenon after I gave a townlean.
you like a lot of things which is nice but you should consider that you could be getting pocketed or that just b/c someone gives in and provides a tr after a sr does not make them townier

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:48 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:46 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:42 pm There's not a lot of PSV content to go off of but what I saw had a couple minor town pings. Her immediately townreading Roxy for frustration looks good in hindsight since I feel like a wolf would keep what is probably t!Roxy in the PoE. I also like that she asked me to read Zenon and pushed Rico over Zenon after I gave a townlean.
you like a lot of things which is nice but you should consider that you could be getting pocketed or that just b/c someone gives in and provides a tr after a sr does not make them townier
I think a lot of people have been towny this game so it's hard to me to find a solve. It's not a general tell, it's that in this specific case I think it's a little more likely to come from a town to immediately TR Roxy for the frustration and not falter when Roxy was under a lot of pressure and scum might keep their options open.
was psv the first person to extend that sentiment? I read it and immediately thought it was very towny

Porscha is in my PoE because I think her EoD is wolfy. She tried to talk me off defending PSV then got cold feet and voted Zenon at 8:58 right before EoD. It reads like she wanted to get PSV eliminated and subtly swayed the thread that way but tried not to get her own hands dirty.

I thought I'd get NKed so I'm a little surprised at that choice.

I'll stay on Rico. I still don't feel like PSV is a hit.

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:55 pm why do you feel like rico is wolf? I asked everyone earlier to explain why he isnt towny and received zero answers

I feel like he's been unwilling to commit to or pressure his PoE except for parking on Falcon. His PoE post and his Epi read fall short of giving actual scumreads.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:53 pm We are less than ten minutes out from lock and lacking a Roxy vote.

Epi, what are your thoughts on Rico other than that you're not voting him?

Idk. I don't want to be wrong again and I was set on Rico over PSV going into this last stretch of EoD, but now I'm doubting myself.

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:48 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:46 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:42 pm There's not a lot of PSV content to go off of but what I saw had a couple minor town pings. Her immediately townreading Roxy for frustration looks good in hindsight since I feel like a wolf would keep what is probably t!Roxy in the PoE. I also like that she asked me to read Zenon and pushed Rico over Zenon after I gave a townlean.
you like a lot of things which is nice but you should consider that you could be getting pocketed or that just b/c someone gives in and provides a tr after a sr does not make them townier
I think a lot of people have been towny this game so it's hard to me to find a solve. It's not a general tell, it's that in this specific case I think it's a little more likely to come from a town to immediately TR Roxy for the frustration and not falter when Roxy was under a lot of pressure and scum might keep their options open.
was psv the first person to extend that sentiment? I read it and immediately thought it was very towny

I checked and Splints was the first. You and Epi could be right that my point isn't as strong as I thought it was.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:29 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:25 pm Idk if I'll make it to vote close (the drama!) So this is the time to ask me burning questions or make bold accusations.
My move here against Porscha comes under the perspective that you and Porscha are the two mafia members.

Day 1 it looked like you were doing your damnedest to get people to notice you were voting Porscha when Porscha was nowhere near close to dying.

Day 2? Crickets about Porscha. Instead:

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 3:57 pm Hmm let's see
[VOTE: ricochet ] aubergine
I don't know why this post exists.

So there's my bold accusation.

The "crickets about Porscha" thing is a good point. @potentialsheltervet how did your read develop on Porscha today and what changed?

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:42 pm There's not a lot of PSV content to go off of but what I saw had a couple minor town pings. Her immediately townreading Roxy for frustration looks good in hindsight since I feel like a wolf would keep what is probably t!Roxy in the PoE. I also like that she asked me to read Zenon and pushed Rico over Zenon after I gave a townlean.
you like a lot of things which is nice but you should consider that you could be getting pocketed or that just b/c someone gives in and provides a tr after a sr does not make them townier

I think a lot of people have been towny this game so it's hard to me to find a solve. It's not a general tell, it's that in this specific case I think it's a little more likely to come from a town to immediately TR Roxy for the frustration and not falter when Roxy was under a lot of pressure and scum might keep their options open.

There's not a lot of PSV content to go off of but what I saw had a couple minor town pings. Her immediately townreading Roxy for frustration looks good in hindsight since I feel like a wolf would keep what is probably t!Roxy in the PoE. I also like that she asked me to read Zenon and pushed Rico over Zenon after I gave a townlean.

[VOTE: Ricochet] aubergine

I prefer this over PSV or Porscha.

I'm starting to think Epi is town again. I don't agree with his vote on Porscha, but I think it would be a bold thing for a wolf to do coming in with some pressure on him when a Ricochet vote is right there and he expressed suspicion on Ricochet earlier.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 11:34 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 3:11 am Fuck it

[VOTE: PSV] aubergine

I don't town read them I just think there's wolfier slots but meh
Really, Zenon? After the game we just played? Lol

Hi PSV. Can you explain what the history is here?

Before I had it in the back of my mind that a Rico/Epi team was plausible because neither had the other one as the top suspect, but after the exchange between them today I doubt that's the case.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 6:52 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 6:41 pm I think I'll use that free parking vote spot since I don't want to put Rico at 3 yet. My Epi vote was more to get people to look at him and look outside the d1 slankers like Roxy and Splints than a desire to have him chopped today, and now I think that pressure would be better off him than on him. He's in my PoE but I think Rico is a better chop today.

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine
I think your pick of me is the shakiest even given the terms you reasoned it.

It's less about that you want to elim inactives and more about that you're more willing to commit to pushing inactives than you are to commit to pushing others. You were more committal on Lemon yesterday but then there's a lack of actually pressuring your PoE today other than Falcon.
No proof I committed to pushing inactives for good and inflexibly. Maybe the talks on dealing with inactives long term dragged on, but don't think there was more to that.
There was a lack of me doing much of anything "today" until about 8pm local when I planned some reads and found myself already profiled the way you also believe and push my lynch for.
And whatever reads I managed do in fact work on a a PoE (partial or not) and address the LHF in new light, but nobody, including yourself, is interested or swayed.

I am interested and I have read your posts. Part of it was that your vote was parked on Falcon except for the brief Zenon vote which wasn't even a real scumread, and your PoE didn't have any strong reads so you defaulted to Falcon. Suspects like Epi you fell short of actually pressuring.

Zenon wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 6:38 pm I'm kinda really not in a mentally good place right now but not cause of this game... but it is effecting this game and I think the game state and thread vibes improve with me dead

I hope you feel better.

I think I'll use that free parking vote spot since I don't want to put Rico at 3 yet. My Epi vote was more to get people to look at him and look outside the d1 slankers like Roxy and Splints than a desire to have him chopped today, and now I think that pressure would be better off him than on him. He's in my PoE but I think Rico is a better chop today.

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

Zenon wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 6:25 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 6:04 pm @fingersplints are you staying on Zenon?
Please kill me

Please stop wishing to die and play the game. It's not lost and you trying to die hurts town if you're town, which I think you are.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 6:14 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 6:04 pm @fingersplints are you staying on Zenon?
We’ll see. I might move but I’m getting sleepy

Who would you move to?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:32 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 10:50 am I'm wrong on someone. I don't have any confident scumreads and I don't think it's as easy as "kill the low posters". I think Falcon's catchup looks reasonably good - it's an original take on the thread and i think it makes sense from the POV that he's town and reads Roxy town.
Just one?

Damn.

I meant I was wrong on at least one person by that.

My bad, I did forget about you saying you didn't have a chance to reconsider when I made that last sentence. I'll wait and see what your other takes are.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:42 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 11:36 am I think I gave Epi too much of a pass for sounding towny and working with me. His content today has been uninspiring, specifically his Roxy read amounting to that Roxy is still mafia and not reconsidering or finding new reasons.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 8:58 pm
If these two are bad, I think they kill me, not Rondo, since I'm going to tug at the Roxy bone all during Day 2.

So I'm not going to do that.

@Roxy Happy Sunday. Take Day 2 to do your thing. My vote is on you for now, but I'll look elsewhere.
See my comment to Rico- I don't care about being inspiring anymore. I care about being right the right number of times.

I have not had a chance to reconsider anything new since last I was here and won't until a bit later. You are aware of my time of activity in the thread, and I'm not even comfortable being here right now, but I don't want to get so far behind before lock.

By uninspiring I was thinking that your read on Roxy felt stagnant even in light of her defense and frustration, which you acknowledged at the time. It wasn't an activity thing.

Yes, you said you'd look elsewhere, but your contributions after had been takes like Falcon isn't a bad elim but he isn't mafia. I understand you might not have had the time to make detailed reads but I still think you hadn't done a lot of looking elsewhere in your takes after you made that post.

I suspect Rico too but I also want to look at the people who took less heat today because I think Zenon, Splints, and Roxy are town. I don't think Falcon and Rico are paired from Rico's treatment of Falcon, so I think we have at least one in Epi/Porscha/PSV and I'm looking at Epi.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:21 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:15 pm [VOTE: Epi] aubergine
Good morning, Thunal.

Lol, good morning. I'd like to see your takes on Roxy.

[VOTE: Epi] aubergine

I get the impression that Roxy believes what she's saying and she has a lot of conviction in her reads and takes, like with how much energy she put into challenging Zenon saying she's LHF. I want to shake up the status quo of this game since I feel like the consensus PoE doesn't have both wolves. I think Roxy, Zenon, and Splints are all town.

Zenon wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:14 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:08 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 1:09 pm Anyone with the take that I want by all means to elim inactives toDay is misconstruing any notion that I am resolute on such a (final) vote for toDay and leaves out or hasn't noted that I said that D2 gamestate had three inactives out of nine players, which I thought was quite a lot to leave unchecked / unflipped / un-elim'd going into further phases.
It's less about that you want to elim inactives and more about that you're more willing to commit to pushing inactives than you are to commit to pushing others. You were more committal on Lemon yesterday but then there's a lack of actually pressuring your PoE today other than Falcon.
I frankly think the concept that lhf can read lhf better is just ridiculous as an assertion to make feels weird. That's not this post I'm just replying here cause I didn't when I read it

what post are you talking about?

[VOTE: Ricochet] aubergine

Ricochet wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 1:09 pm Anyone with the take that I want by all means to elim inactives toDay is misconstruing any notion that I am resolute on such a (final) vote for toDay and leaves out or hasn't noted that I said that D2 gamestate had three inactives out of nine players, which I thought was quite a lot to leave unchecked / unflipped / un-elim'd going into further phases.

It's less about that you want to elim inactives and more about that you're more willing to commit to pushing inactives than you are to commit to pushing others. You were more committal on Lemon yesterday but then there's a lack of actually pressuring your PoE today other than Falcon.

Roxy wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 2:55 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 11:36 am I went through my town pings on everyone to find who I could be misclearing:

Epi - had towny tone, wanted to work with me, continued confident push on Roxy
Porscha - challenged my read on her, solved more than her scumgame
PSV - several mindmelds, wanting to bounce thoughts off me
Ricochet - a couple mindmelds, making small observations
Roxy - frustration then dipping after which could be showing she really didn’t want to defend herself
Splints - came in with a contrary stance, made mention read
Zenon - early Rondo thing, focuses on avoiding past mistakes, being happy someone else sees Ricochet scumread
Falcon - came in with original take on Splints

I think I gave Epi too much of a pass for sounding towny and working with me. His content today has been uninspiring, specifically his Roxy read amounting to that Roxy is still mafia and not reconsidering or finding new reasons. I also see Falcon's point on Splints - she spends a lot more posts defending the low posters than working out who could be mafia outside them. I still am suspicious of Ricochet because it still feels like he's leaning into wanting to kill slankers. He falls short of voting or actually pressuring the non-Falcon people in his PoE.
Low posters do tend to stick up for each other and learn to read each other as best they can. So I can see why splints makes much mention of them. I often do too. As does falcon and a few others. But as for splints this is only D 2 and for her free time is a precious commodity. She has 2 kids one is special needs the other is under 2 so yes her hands are quite full of rl I just love that she still plays and is an active member of this community from inception and unlike me with zero breaks from it. Yes here I am standing up for this low poster but she is trying and trying a lot for her. If she was a baddie I feel she would have even less posts here and more in a baddie chat. RN I am pretty certain she is town.

I'm inclined to believe this is true no matter your alignment. I did a check of one of her town games and she tried less than she has been today, and she feels very invested in this game.

I don't like having personal fights in games but they do sometimes give a lot of info. My instinct is that Zenon/Splints is t/t since I feel like mafia would give more controlled or planned responses. This feels off the cuff and genuine.

Roxy wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 2:27 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 3:49 pm
Zenon wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 3:47 pm Me psv falcon Roxy
This is not a game winning POE at all imo
I agree except I would leave Zenon. I would add Epi still but I do not want to be all "No U" this game. Then I do not have anything definitive to go from just a feel, vibe, tone thing that gives me baddie reads from Thunal.

You don't want to be all "no u" so you're leaving Epi out? If Epi is in your PoE, he's in your PoE and that shouldn't change based on how you want to act this game.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 12:42 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 12:09 pm
fingersplints wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 12:01 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 10:38 am Hmmmm...I'm seeing fingers defend LHF/slankers a lot, but she doesn't seem to be concerned over the players pushing these slots...almost as tho she's aware that town is pushing town.

[VOTE: fingers] aubergine
I am concerned with some of the people pushing it. I dislike it every game I play. Not everyone who is pushing it will be bad though, so it’s figuring out who is pushing it because they always do, or if they are pushing it for an easy elim.
Can you flesh out your read on Neon plz? I'm not seeing much in your ISO as to why you sus them
I think they are misconstruing things said in a past mafia chat to make me look worse when it was advantageous. (The whole I’m scared to post because of friends when I wasn’t around)
I think because I was just on a team with them, I can see some of the similarities from this game and that one.

Can you tell me what you said in the past mafia chat?

[VOTE: Splints] aubergine

I went through my town pings on everyone to find who I could be misclearing:

Epi - had towny tone, wanted to work with me, continued confident push on Roxy
Porscha - challenged my read on her, solved more than her scumgame
PSV - several mindmelds, wanting to bounce thoughts off me
Ricochet - a couple mindmelds, making small observations
Roxy - frustration then dipping after which could be showing she really didn’t want to defend herself
Splints - came in with a contrary stance, made mention read
Zenon - early Rondo thing, focuses on avoiding past mistakes, being happy someone else sees Ricochet scumread
Falcon - came in with original take on Splints

I think I gave Epi too much of a pass for sounding towny and working with me. His content today has been uninspiring, specifically his Roxy read amounting to that Roxy is still mafia and not reconsidering or finding new reasons. I also see Falcon's point on Splints - she spends a lot more posts defending the low posters than working out who could be mafia outside them. I still am suspicious of Ricochet because it still feels like he's leaning into wanting to kill slankers. He falls short of voting or actually pressuring the non-Falcon people in his PoE.

I'm wrong on someone. I don't have any confident scumreads and I don't think it's as easy as "kill the low posters". I think Falcon's catchup looks reasonably good - it's an original take on the thread and i think it makes sense from the POV that he's town and reads Roxy town.

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