The Syndicate

Kinda surprised how slow it is. Where is everyone who hasn't voted? Have you all seen the VC?

Also, I'd like to reemphasize that I really do think we should massclaim. We are in elo and need as much info as we can get. Shending claimed, but Dya, Dunya and Cape have been in the thread since I suggested this, and none of them acknowledged it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:22 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:15 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:10 am I did cross votes with Sean, but I've also already laid out why I think Hess a wolf here, albeit dunya explained it way better than I did.

Sean, can you not see why that makes sense from my pov?
Your reads on both me and Dya are purely associative, so no, I don't give associative reads much credit, and you don't hardpush like I do, so I don't see your read on me making much sense. You also say I didn't do much D1 when I was one of the biggest Alison critics and my vote (not yours) was the one who buried HK.

Where did I say you didn't do much Day 1?

Why are you now suddenly claiming to make the burying vote on hk? At the time, the votes all came in at the same time (albeit I think Spacedaisy made the tie). Why claim that now when I'm pushing you and not when it happened?

In the post where you "cased" me. You asked if it makes sense from your POV. I say no and I have evidence to back that up.

Also, the votes didn't come in at the same time, you were pretty far behind. I was surprised you "broke" the tie because I had already broken it and some time had passed (seconds, not minutes, but still).

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:12 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:10 am
dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:09 am
Shending_Help wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:08 am Marmot and Sean are both town. I'm locking it in.

Team is like Dya/falc/dolby+1
hmmmmmmmm

i will quote the spacedaisy post i felt was townie
Still waiting for you to answer my original question.
because you removed your vote off Marmot

That doesn't answer the question. I asked how I am different now compared to the game I tunnelled you in. You deflected rather than answered.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:10 am I did cross votes with Sean, but I've also already laid out why I think Hess a wolf here, albeit dunya explained it way better than I did.

Sean, can you not see why that makes sense from my pov?

Your reads on both me and Dya are purely associative, so no, I don't give associative reads much credit, and you don't hardpush like I do, so I don't see your read on me making much sense. You also say I didn't do much D1 when I was one of the biggest Alison critics and my vote (not yours) was the one who buried HK.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:09 am
Shending_Help wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:08 am Marmot and Sean are both town. I'm locking it in.

Team is like Dya/falc/dolby+1
hmmmmmmmm

i will quote the spacedaisy post i felt was townie

Still waiting for you to answer my original question.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:04 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:03 am
dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:02 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:58 am
dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:54 am there's no way seanzie gets marmot this wrong, he was begging for a misyeet to win the game. there's no way seanzie as town doesn't vote dya today.

the fact he went and quickly voted marmot is telling in itself.

there's no way marmot is wolf. i will bank on that.
Pretty sure the only time we've actually played together I tunneled you when everyone else thought you were town. Why is this game different?
are you consciously trying to mimic your town game?
Are you trying to protect Marmot?
people who answer a question with another question are more likely trying to lie.

Lol, kinda think you just admitted to lying. Funny.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:02 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:58 am
dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:54 am there's no way seanzie gets marmot this wrong, he was begging for a misyeet to win the game. there's no way seanzie as town doesn't vote dya today.

the fact he went and quickly voted marmot is telling in itself.

there's no way marmot is wolf. i will bank on that.
Pretty sure the only time we've actually played together I tunneled you when everyone else thought you were town. Why is this game different?
are you consciously trying to mimic your town game?

Are you trying to protect Marmot?

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:01 am [VOTE: dyachei] aubergine

Your thoughts on me were wolfy.

Shending_Help wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:57 am I'm still pretty sure youre both town. Since probably falcon is an Afk wolf the wolves wouldn't have the power to hammer yet.

If I'm wrong on one of them it'd probably be Marmot over Sean at this point, but I still think they're both town. And crossing in lylo is a normal reaction sean, it's not outing however much you want to confbias you being right on this.

Just like your argument of "he should know I'm town here" I'm sure Marmot feels the exact same, especially with his post about not having won as a wolf in a long time.

Can we just all unvote and make a reasonable yeet instead before it's too late?

(PS. I think sean is *probably* always town for the comment about sitting ready on 2 devices with the finger on the unvote button)

Most games on TS don't have locked elo votes so hrd elo crosses are not actually common here. Either way, it isn't the fact that Marmot crossed, it is the fact that he crossed and "went to bed". I don't see that coming from town.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:54 am there's no way seanzie gets marmot this wrong, he was begging for a misyeet to win the game. there's no way seanzie as town doesn't vote dya today.

the fact he went and quickly voted marmot is telling in itself.

there's no way marmot is wolf. i will bank on that.

Pretty sure the only time we've actually played together I tunneled you when everyone else thought you were town. Why is this game different?

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:54 am there's no way seanzie gets marmot this wrong, he was begging for a misyeet to win the game. there's no way seanzie as town doesn't vote dya today.

the fact he went and quickly voted marmot is telling in itself.

there's no way marmot is wolf. i will bank on that.

Pretty sure the only time we've actually played together I tunneled you when everyone else thought you were town. Why is this game different?

@Marmot?

Yeah, Marmot is just a hit.

How do you feel, Marmot?

Like, I'm sitting here, playing on two devices with one continually having "no vote" selected and my mouse on "submit vote" in case a wagon forms on Marmot, I can unvote instantly, because while I think he is scum, I'm not about to put that much faith into my own reads to not be wary about what is going on. Marmot's "vote Seanzie, I'm going to sleep" is BS. He has a reasonably good read on me, and so he should know I'm town, or at least think I might be, so him hard-committing to me being wolf is bad. Him planting on me is bad. Marmot is bad.

Like, I'm sitting here, playing on two devices with one continually having "no vote" selected and my mouse on "submit vote" in case a wagon forms on Marmot, I can unvote instantly, because while I think he is scum, I'm not about to put that much faith into my own reads to not be wary about what is going on. Marmot's "vote Seanzie, I'm going to sleep" is BS. He has a reasonably good read on me, and so he should know I'm town, or at least think I might be, so him hard-committing to me being wolf is bad. Him planting on me is bad. Marmot is bad.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:54 pm I'mma sleep on it, but at this point, I believe we just auto-chop Sean/dya and then see where we're at.

I'd like feedback from everyone else when you get a chance.

[VOTE: Sean] aubergine

This is outing. There is no need to cross, but Marmot is going to vote me and sleep. No townie would do that.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:42 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:06 pm sabiplz ( 4 ) Seanzie, dyachei, Wisdom, Shending_Help
dyachei ( 2 ) Cape90, DrWilgy
falcon45ca ( 1 ) dunya
Not Voting ( 4 ) falcon45ca, sabiplz, spacedaisy, marmot

Here's the VC from Day 2. I'm looking at this in the scenario that dya is a wolf who was saved.

Sean was the first vote on the Sabi wagon here (or at least that's how Nanook logged it).

I don't think that Shen is a wolf based on Sean's push today. If Sean and Shen are wolves, I don't think they would have much trouble winning this game, even if they were the only two wolves left.

This VC probably points to DrWilgy and Cape as town if dya is a wolf.

dunya is town either way

Which means that any of the final wolves could be in falcon/spacedaisy.

Hmmm.

Hmmm.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:27 pm I'm guessing Sean is just a wolf here, and that dya is on his team.

Spoiler: show
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:45 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:36 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:24 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:22 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:19 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:34 am

was HK a lead wagon at that time? I don't recall. But I probably just forgot to include HK because I literally pointed out I get better at reading him as time goes on.

Seanzie and dunya are very strong players so I wanted to give them the benefit of doubt. You and NAA I was villa reading
I'm fairly certain we've only played together once, and in that game I was misyeeted on D1. Where does this perspective on me come from?
pretty sure I was a wolf that game that was worried about you. I have a high estimation of your game from it
I don't think we interacted much at all that game. I didn't scumread you, and players new to me that don't ping me, I usually ignore because I find it easier to hunt when there are less players on my mind.
I didnt need to interact with you that game to think you were a threat?
Do you think I'm a threat now (in particular a threat to you, not just to mafia in general)?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:50 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:48 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:47 pm [VOTE: Dyachei] aubergine
can i change my answer?
You didn't feel threatened when I asked you if you felt I was a threat to you?

I'm scrolling back through Sean's ISO to look at his interactions with dya. There was negligible content on Day 1, but Day 2 does offer these back-and-forths, leading to Sean voting for dya. It isn't much of a case, it's a back and forth prodding of sorts.

Sean later dropped this vote (and push?) of dya in favor of sabi. I can't entirely fault him for this, because I wanted to kill sabi too, but I still don't think we should have killed sabi then, and Sean pushing for at this moment . I think the thread in general agreed on this, but sabi was pushed and killed instead.

I think the reason Sean is pushing me here is that dya is his teammate, and he knows he needs to make a push on someone outside of the POE to win this game. If he has other teammates, I could see them being falcon and another low POE candidate. And this is why Sean pushed for a massclaim at the same time.

Sean did vote for HK on Day 1 to push him over, which does give me a little pause. But if the wolves did have 6 teammates, it probably wasn't that hard for them to bus early.

Anyone who thinks I would be drafted to a mafia team, I have a hard time taking seriously. You should know I'm town.

By LC? Should I know that?

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:07 pm I have 60 posts and I'm not going to re-explain the same thing to you Sean.

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Cape90 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:07 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:01 pm @Marmot can you talk me through why you shot Jack? You had to have given the shot a lot of thought.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:15 pm Ugh, Marmot and Shending are wolves...
I feel like this first post kind of contradicts the second post.

Feel like the first post has to assume that Marmot is town given the sentence "You had to have given the shot a lot of thought".

"You had to have given the shot a lot of thought" was a way of goading Marmot.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:00 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:54 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:51 pm Are you trying to bait me rn? It is in the post you responded to.

What are you doing?
No, it isn't.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:43 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:41 pm Actually, have we considered a mass claim?

It is probably not a bad idea since we know wolves have at most two power roles, and I feel like there should be a lot more mech info in the thread than there is currently.

I think that makes sense now, especially if we're near/at LYLO

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:01 pm @Marmot can you talk me through why you shot Jack? You had to have given the shot a lot of thought.

Yes. I shot Jack because dya/falcon were the competing wagons, and I wanted to shoot outside of that, and Jack was the scummiest person to me outside of that.

I also thought Jack/dya looked paired, and that Jack was trying to keep dya alive, or at least work to keep pocket them while they were POE'd to keep himself alive.
In no way shape or form do you explain WHY Jack was scummy here. You just state that Jack was the scummiest outside the wagons.

You then say ALSO (Also means you already finished your thought btw, and are on to a new one, so you should have reason to scumread Jack outside of this ALSO) Jack/Dya looked paired, but that seems a pretty weak reason to actually shoot someone. Also the ALSO suggests there SHOULD be more to the story. Is there, Marmot?

I think you're reading way too much out of the words I'm using. Yes I used the word "also". I offered one reason why I shot Jack, and another additional reason. The first one is that he was not one of the competing wagons, and the second was the reason I thought he looked scummy.

You agreed with my taking a shot on Jack.

And yes, I did explain it there. If you can't see that in the post, I don't know what else to tell you, and I'm concerned you're deliberately ignoring it.

I did agree, and I wonder if that gave you the excuse you needed.

I asked why you thought Jack was scummy. Jack NOT being a wagon does not make Jack scummy. So is the ONLY reason you thought Jack was scummy was because of the Jack/Dya possible team?

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:51 pm Are you trying to bait me rn? It is in the post you responded to.

What are you doing?

No, it isn't.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:43 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:41 pm Actually, have we considered a mass claim?

It is probably not a bad idea since we know wolves have at most two power roles, and I feel like there should be a lot more mech info in the thread than there is currently.

I think that makes sense now, especially if we're near/at LYLO

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:01 pm @Marmot can you talk me through why you shot Jack? You had to have given the shot a lot of thought.

Yes. I shot Jack because dya/falcon were the competing wagons, and I wanted to shoot outside of that, and Jack was the scummiest person to me outside of that.

I also thought Jack/dya looked paired, and that Jack was trying to keep dya alive, or at least work to keep pocket them while they were POE'd to keep himself alive.

In no way shape or form do you explain WHY Jack was scummy here. You just state that Jack was the scummiest outside the wagons.

You then say ALSO (Also means you already finished your thought btw, and are on to a new one, so you should have reason to scumread Jack outside of this ALSO) Jack/Dya looked paired, but that seems a pretty weak reason to actually shoot someone. Also the ALSO suggests there SHOULD be more to the story. Is there, Marmot?

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:45 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:45 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:43 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:41 pm Actually, have we considered a mass claim?

It is probably not a bad idea since we know wolves have at most two power roles, and I feel like there should be a lot more mech info in the thread than there is currently.

I think that makes sense now, especially if we're near/at LYLO

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:01 pm @Marmot can you talk me through why you shot Jack? You had to have given the shot a lot of thought.

Yes. I shot Jack because dya/falcon were the competing wagons, and I wanted to shoot outside of that, and Jack was the scummiest person to me outside of that.

I also thought Jack/dya looked paired, and that Jack was trying to keep dya alive, or at least work to keep pocket them while they were POE'd to keep himself alive.
Why was Jack scummy?

I just explained it.

In another post? Where? Quote it please.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:43 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:41 pm Actually, have we considered a mass claim?

It is probably not a bad idea since we know wolves have at most two power roles, and I feel like there should be a lot more mech info in the thread than there is currently.

I think that makes sense now, especially if we're near/at LYLO

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:01 pm @Marmot can you talk me through why you shot Jack? You had to have given the shot a lot of thought.

Yes. I shot Jack because dya/falcon were the competing wagons, and I wanted to shoot outside of that, and Jack was the scummiest person to me outside of that.

I also thought Jack/dya looked paired, and that Jack was trying to keep dya alive, or at least work to keep pocket them while they were POE'd to keep himself alive.

Why was Jack scummy?

That's what I thought

Shending_Help wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:26 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:26 pm No response, Shending?
Lmao

Idk If ur reaction testing rn or not, but ur not gonna find me as town from it if you haven't by my play so far this game

I don't find town, I bury wolves.

Also, Dya's level of hedge on Shending and Marmot at this point I think is telling

I'd guess your post about Wilgy/Falcon is a small salad.

@dyachei can you tell me about each of Falocn and Wilgy, seperately?

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:08 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:05 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:02 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:58 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:03 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:47 pm I wanna look at wilgy and falcon most because i think they are coasting the most
This is bad post
I think the wolves are comfortable right now. They aren't vying for elims or anything and they're gonna win the game when everyone sleepwalks into a miskill
Wilgy and Falcon have been coasting all game, even when we elim'd two wolves back-to-back. Your thought process only applies to today. Why?
it doesn't only apply to today. I think wolves have thread control, too
So you think wolves have thread control while putting forward the two people who probably have the least thread control?

Can I get your thoughts on Marmot and Shending?
I'm think that shending is v based on previous meta with him. part of the issue for me is that it's old meta. Wisdom was reading him v, too so I think i'm gonna stick with it

Marmot I think has been towny but I honestly turned a bit of a blind eye to him after the claim

So you, Marmot, Shending, who is the fourth?

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:02 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:58 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:03 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:47 pm I wanna look at wilgy and falcon most because i think they are coasting the most
This is bad post
I think the wolves are comfortable right now. They aren't vying for elims or anything and they're gonna win the game when everyone sleepwalks into a miskill
Wilgy and Falcon have been coasting all game, even when we elim'd two wolves back-to-back. Your thought process only applies to today. Why?
it doesn't only apply to today. I think wolves have thread control, too

So you think wolves have thread control while putting forward the two people who probably have the least thread control?

Can I get your thoughts on Marmot and Shending?

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:03 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:47 pm I wanna look at wilgy and falcon most because i think they are coasting the most
This is bad post
I think the wolves are comfortable right now. They aren't vying for elims or anything and they're gonna win the game when everyone sleepwalks into a miskill

Wilgy and Falcon have been coasting all game, even when we elim'd two wolves back-to-back. Your thought process only applies to today. Why?

No response, Shending?

Ugh, Marmot and Shending are wolves...

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:47 pm I wanna look at wilgy and falcon most because i think they are coasting the most

This is bad post

@Marmot can you talk me through why you shot Jack? You had to have given the shot a lot of thought.

I'll start. I'm VT.

Actually, have we considered a mass claim?

It is probably not a bad idea since we know wolves have at most two power roles, and I feel like there should be a lot more mech info in the thread than there is currently.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:31 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:27 pm If I do something bold and it blows up in my face, are y'all going to forgive me?

No (yes)

What do you think of Dya?

If I do something bold and it blows up in my face, are y'all going to forgive me?

Shending_Help wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:42 am (Imo Marmot should be that person based on what I've seen others say + my own thoughts)

Why Marmot?

If I had to vote right now, it'd be Dya.

This EoD definitely feels a lot different than the last, and idk what to make of that.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:43 pm
Shending_Help wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:41 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:38 pm I feel like these eods are abnormal and maybe because of the racket style maybe???

Most games have flash wagons and crazy things.
Like my attempted flash wagon of falc d1 that got called objectively bad by sean
Let's not get cocky till falcon flips w

Why do you think Falcon is a wolf?

I really don't like how Sabi is in a good spot to snipe

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:38 pm I feel like these eods are abnormal and maybe because of the racket style maybe???

Most games have flash wagons and crazy things.

Last EoD Falcon almost got flashwagoned, and HK/Sabi almost tied and there was lots of movement around preventing that from happening. Where are you getting this impression from?

Wisdom wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:08 am Feeling quite confident that there's 2-3 wolves in Dunya/Dya/Sabi/Falcon.

I don't have feeings about Dunya, even though I also don't remember any content from them, which is concerning on it's own. Falcon I think is almost assuredly clear if Sabi flips wolf, and idk if I see LC picking Falcon either way.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:17 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:06 am yeah, okay. Gonna take a stance. Falcon probably not mafia, Sabi mafia.
This is hilarious. Please tell me who my partners are in this world. Dya also pushed for Falcon?

I don't see anything ruling you out from being partnered with most people. Do you believe you have enough interactions to clear yourself via them even though we don't even know how big the wolf team is?

What is your point on Dya?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:15 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:40 pm
Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:33 pm Voting jack for now so that dya isn't in the hammer zone (are there hammers in this game)

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:33 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:32 pm @Sabiplz thoughts on who Marmot should shoot?
Falcon or dya tbh
If you want Marmot to shoot Falcon or Dya, why did you move off Falcon to Jack?
@Seanzie i dont shoot people I'm voting for and also Jack wasn't my confident read. He was a placement vote because hammer zone for dya. Please explain how that is scummy

"I don't shoot people I'm voting for" considering you were voting Falcon and want to vote Dya, your suggestion for Marmot suggests otherwise. Staying on Falcon (one of your shot targets) would also leave Dya out of hammer zone.

It doesn't have to be scummy, which is why I asked for your explanation - to see why you did what you did. In general though, when your actions and words don't line up, this could be a sign of a hidden agenda, which is scummy.

yeah, okay. Gonna take a stance. Falcon probably not mafia, Sabi mafia.

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