Search found 237 matches

by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:31 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:23 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:11 pm
MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:01 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:59 pm
MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:56 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:54 pm
DrWilgy wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:51 pm

What makes this list possible?

I think that there's one wolf between them, but I'd be very surprised to see 2 in these 3.
I don't see the game going the way it has if that group is mostly town.
Seanzie you literally are a main cause for why it is the way it is. And you're blaming the abstract idea that we'd stop it. You tunneled the towniest player in the game right up until they died then moved on to me. Pull your fucking head out of your ass.
I'm not "blaming" anyone or anything. I'm making a read.
Your read is that if I was town that the game wouldn't be where it is when I've been fighting against a gamestate you've been far more complicit in. You're literally 1984 as fuck. You are doing shit and then blaming me for not preventing it. It's maddening.
My read is that a group {SPF, Mac, Bereft} should be leading us, and they aren't so the group has wolves.

I have not been complicit in the gamestate. My reads have been ignored and none of the people I have pushed for have gotten chopped. The only effect I've had on the gamestate is that I've defended people like Falcon and Creature, because I think they're more likely town than not, and I think I've helped avoid wagons on them.
You were one of the main people pushing Baudib on day 1. It's disingenuous to say you're not complicit in the gamestate when you did that AND voted Alison on day 1. You are not alone but you're part of the core group.
I did push Baudib, and I was wrong, but that isn't being complicit in anything. I only voted Alison when the day was almost done (5 minutes left) and a FS wagon appeared out of nowhere (unless you mean earlier in the day when I was voting Alison and Baudib to see how people would react to the tie). Alison was not a great choice IMO, but at that point, only Alison and FS were viable, at AT LEAST Alison is someone we talked about that day so their flip would be more beneficial than an infoless FS flip.

Neither of these things is being complicit in the gamestate.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:22 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

falcon45ca wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:21 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:06 pm
falcon45ca wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:02 pm
Bereft wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:35 pm Seanzie/SPF/Falcon does probably in fact contain exactly one wolf was the only thing I gathered overnight.
Sean is starting to ping me. I feel he's laying an undue amount of burden at Mac's feet...and he talks about a rotten towncore, but is he not part of said core? It's not as tho he's been a major wagon or anything
I'm not laying an undue amount of burden at Mac's feet. My burden is with the group {SPF, Mac, Bereft}. I don't think the burden I've placed on that group as a whole is undue.
Of those 3, I choose SPF.
I'm voting SPF for a reason.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:22 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 1]

DrWilgy wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:19 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:02 pm Kinda want to say Seanzie is my ride or die but I havent seen him as wolf so I will just say town for now
Does Seanzie allow a Rondo NK with a post like this out there?

I don't think so unless Rondo was 100% all in as a teammate.
There are 5 wolves, so no one wolf is going to have a strong veto on NK because of a D1 post. There are better reasons to townread me than this.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:11 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:01 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:59 pm
MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:56 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:54 pm
DrWilgy wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:51 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:20 pm
sig wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:17 pm @Seanzie @Creature talk to be about SPF
If there aren't at least two wolves in SPF/Mac/Bereft, the game makes no sense.
What makes this list possible?

I think that there's one wolf between them, but I'd be very surprised to see 2 in these 3.
I don't see the game going the way it has if that group is mostly town.
Seanzie you literally are a main cause for why it is the way it is. And you're blaming the abstract idea that we'd stop it. You tunneled the towniest player in the game right up until they died then moved on to me. Pull your fucking head out of your ass.
I'm not "blaming" anyone or anything. I'm making a read.
Your read is that if I was town that the game wouldn't be where it is when I've been fighting against a gamestate you've been far more complicit in. You're literally 1984 as fuck. You are doing shit and then blaming me for not preventing it. It's maddening.
My read is that a group {SPF, Mac, Bereft} should be leading us, and they aren't so the group has wolves.

I have not been complicit in the gamestate. My reads have been ignored and none of the people I have pushed for have gotten chopped. The only effect I've had on the gamestate is that I've defended people like Falcon and Creature, because I think they're more likely town than not, and I think I've helped avoid wagons on them.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:06 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

falcon45ca wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:02 pm
Bereft wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:35 pm Seanzie/SPF/Falcon does probably in fact contain exactly one wolf was the only thing I gathered overnight.
Sean is starting to ping me. I feel he's laying an undue amount of burden at Mac's feet...and he talks about a rotten towncore, but is he not part of said core? It's not as tho he's been a major wagon or anything
I'm not laying an undue amount of burden at Mac's feet. My burden is with the group {SPF, Mac, Bereft}. I don't think the burden I've placed on that group as a whole is undue.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:59 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:56 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:54 pm
DrWilgy wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:51 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:20 pm
sig wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:17 pm @Seanzie @Creature talk to be about SPF
If there aren't at least two wolves in SPF/Mac/Bereft, the game makes no sense.
What makes this list possible?

I think that there's one wolf between them, but I'd be very surprised to see 2 in these 3.
I don't see the game going the way it has if that group is mostly town.
Seanzie you literally are a main cause for why it is the way it is. And you're blaming the abstract idea that we'd stop it. You tunneled the towniest player in the game right up until they died then moved on to me. Pull your fucking head out of your ass.
I'm not "blaming" anyone or anything. I'm making a read.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:57 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:49 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:44 pm
MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:34 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:31 pm
MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:29 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:27 pm
Bereft wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:23 pm I also think that when the game is hard we obviously vote out SPF, but now is not then.
Game is clearly hard. Fact that you refuse to acknowledge that is bad.
The game being hard does not automatically mean Bereft/SPF/Mac contains mafia. If us three were dead and Baudib, Alison and Rondo alive you'd probably have the exact same argument with different names.
Keep on powerwolfing man, it's a reasonable thing to do. You're going to have to deal with me all day though.
Okay I'm done with you. I pleaded with you to work with me yesterday and you ignored me. I'm burying you today.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine
From my POV, you have not tried to work with me at all. I explained my case on you yesterday and you just called it illogical and then got upset and started AtEing. Since you've used similar AtE on me when you were a wolf in the past, you burned the one "I'mma drop it in case this is real town frustration and not manipulative AtE" card you get. I don't think I've been rude to you, and I get how this game can get heated at times, and I believe your frustration is probably genuine, but I also know you expressing frustration in the thread is NAI, so you can't expect me to just change my reads because of it.

Bury away.
You have given me zero opportunity to explain my mindset to you in a way that could persuade you to change your read. I have been very townie. You have been a town killing machine and accusing me of the opposite. You should actually reevaluate me properly if you are town. I made a day 1 solve you quoted and questioned me on that so far has had 3 town flip from my towncore and 0 mafia. Largely players you've pushed. Either you're a cause or complicit in the destruction of the town wincon in this game imo.
I've suspected town, but I have not killed anyone. Who have I pushed that then got chopped because of it?

You can say my reads are shit, but town killing? no.

Why are you letting town from your towncore flip so easily?
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:54 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

DrWilgy wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:51 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:20 pm
sig wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:17 pm @Seanzie @Creature talk to be about SPF
If there aren't at least two wolves in SPF/Mac/Bereft, the game makes no sense.
What makes this list possible?

I think that there's one wolf between them, but I'd be very surprised to see 2 in these 3.
I don't see the game going the way it has if that group is mostly town.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:53 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:51 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:50 pm
MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:36 pm Day 1 Alison and Baudib1 got run up by players who mostly remain alive. Both town. I solved WITH them and tried to disrupt their wagons. I clearly was in their world.

Tutuu and Jack are just fucking mafia but instead of killing them I have to deal with Seanzie bullshit. I don't care anymore get the fuck out of my way.
I am willing to concede that Jack is more than likely mafia. However, I feel like we need to cut of my serpents head.
And why pray tell are you ignoring Tutuu?
Because I feel okay about Tutuu.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:50 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:36 pm Day 1 Alison and Baudib1 got run up by players who mostly remain alive. Both town. I solved WITH them and tried to disrupt their wagons. I clearly was in their world.

Tutuu and Jack are just fucking mafia but instead of killing them I have to deal with Seanzie bullshit. I don't care anymore get the fuck out of my way.
I am willing to concede that Jack is more than likely mafia. However, I feel like we need to cut of my serpents head.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:48 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

staypositivefriend wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:35 pm also the thing about taking down a powerwolfing wolfteam is that you start by taking out their weakest links, not their strongest ones. if seanzie believes that the game is being powerwolfed and he believes that things are upside down then this focus should be on getting any wolf killed, as opposed to trying to kill among the wolves would be buried the most deeply in the gamestate

powerwolfing is like playing dominoes and when you knock one domino down, the rest tend to come crumbling down as well, etc. this is why my approach today is to kill literally any wolf regardless of their position in the gamestate and regardless of how deep they are, because regardless of whether or not we are being powerwolfed, that is the best way to break the game open and swing momentum back in our favor
Nah, I'll start with the strong ones, thank you very much. That way, once one of you flips, it will be clear I'm onto something.

There are 5 wolves. One or two in bad position are expendable and would not cause the domino effect you're talking about.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:46 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

staypositivefriend wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:39 pm also the implication that me/mac/bereft are powerwolfing implies that we are responsible for creating the gamestate, when much of our play has been in reaction to the gamestate. we opposed the baud and alison wagons on d1. i opposed the alison wagon on d2 before the day ended, and the only day where really got a good say in eliminating exactly who i wanted to was exactly yesterday

i do have paranoia about exactly bereft being mafia, but even if we live in that world, it feels more likely to me that the wolves are coasting in a wolfsided gamestate instead of going out of their way to create the gamestate. im not sure that i would call that powerwolfing as much as i would call it just sitting back and waiting to win the game
No, it implies that you did not do anything to prevent this gamestate. Has town played well? No. Have the town leaders fixed that? no. If all the people town is looking up to are wolves, it isn't that hard to simply nudge town away from the occasional wolf wagon that might pop up and otherwise let the leaderless townies bury themselves.

That is what this game feels like.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:44 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:34 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:31 pm
MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:29 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:27 pm
Bereft wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:23 pm I also think that when the game is hard we obviously vote out SPF, but now is not then.
Game is clearly hard. Fact that you refuse to acknowledge that is bad.
The game being hard does not automatically mean Bereft/SPF/Mac contains mafia. If us three were dead and Baudib, Alison and Rondo alive you'd probably have the exact same argument with different names.
Keep on powerwolfing man, it's a reasonable thing to do. You're going to have to deal with me all day though.
Okay I'm done with you. I pleaded with you to work with me yesterday and you ignored me. I'm burying you today.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine
From my POV, you have not tried to work with me at all. I explained my case on you yesterday and you just called it illogical and then got upset and started AtEing. Since you've used similar AtE on me when you were a wolf in the past, you burned the one "I'mma drop it in case this is real town frustration and not manipulative AtE" card you get. I don't think I've been rude to you, and I get how this game can get heated at times, and I believe your frustration is probably genuine, but I also know you expressing frustration in the thread is NAI, so you can't expect me to just change my reads because of it.

Bury away.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:31 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:29 pm
Seanzie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:27 pm
Bereft wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:23 pm I also think that when the game is hard we obviously vote out SPF, but now is not then.
Game is clearly hard. Fact that you refuse to acknowledge that is bad.
The game being hard does not automatically mean Bereft/SPF/Mac contains mafia. If us three were dead and Baudib, Alison and Rondo alive you'd probably have the exact same argument with different names.
Keep on powerwolfing man, it's a reasonable thing to do. You're going to have to deal with me all day though.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:30 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:26 pm Seanzie your appraisal of this gamestate is egregious. Bereft and SPF are the only people whose reads actually make sense. Why are you pushing into us 3 and not Jack/Tutuu/Wilgy and other actual wolfy players?
Wolfy like FS, Alison and Roxy?
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:28 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

MacDougall wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:26 pm Seanzie your appraisal of this gamestate is egregious. Bereft and SPF are the only people whose reads actually make sense. Why are you pushing into us 3 and not Jack/Tutuu/Wilgy and other actual wolfy players?
If multiple days go by with a rockstar twoncore and no wolves die, the rockstar towncore is rotten.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:27 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

Bereft wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:23 pm I also think that when the game is hard we obviously vote out SPF, but now is not then.
Game is clearly hard. Fact that you refuse to acknowledge that is bad.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:20 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

sig wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:17 pm @Seanzie @Creature talk to be about SPF
If there aren't at least two wolves in SPF/Mac/Bereft, the game makes no sense.
by Seanzie
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:08 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 4]

[VOTE: SPF] aubergine
by Seanzie
Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:47 am
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 2]

Seanzie wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:47 am
falcon45ca wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:43 am
sig wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:26 pm
Creature wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:37 pm
Dennis wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm Someone talk to me about Sig, if you want. I can't make you
They were one of the sketchiest votes on Alison and I kinda thought his D1 entrance was forced. Also it feels like his wolfread on me was pure OMGUS and was implying I was pushing him for being known LHF (when he's clearly not being LHF this game).
Why was I the sketchiest vote? This narrative makes no sense .


Can’t comment on forced D1 it’s how I always come in I was joking it’s whatever.

I am/was LHF and used to be frequently misvoted, this is a very odd take. Plus my name keeps getting brought up meaning I’m still in the mix/LHF this game
Is Creature weaving a false narrative in your mind? What's your read on them?
I couldn't tell you a single narrative, false or otherwise, that Creature is weaving. If you're specific about what narrative you want my opinion on, I'd be happy to take a look though.

Creature I think is not displaying some of the stiltedness I see in his wolf games, and while he isn't as paranoid as I expect town!Creature, I'd still give him a town lean.
Hmm... it appears this post wasn't to me. Maybe I should read better in the future.
by Seanzie
Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:47 am
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 2]

falcon45ca wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:43 am
sig wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:26 pm
Creature wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:37 pm
Dennis wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm Someone talk to me about Sig, if you want. I can't make you
They were one of the sketchiest votes on Alison and I kinda thought his D1 entrance was forced. Also it feels like his wolfread on me was pure OMGUS and was implying I was pushing him for being known LHF (when he's clearly not being LHF this game).
Why was I the sketchiest vote? This narrative makes no sense .


Can’t comment on forced D1 it’s how I always come in I was joking it’s whatever.

I am/was LHF and used to be frequently misvoted, this is a very odd take. Plus my name keeps getting brought up meaning I’m still in the mix/LHF this game
Is Creature weaving a false narrative in your mind? What's your read on them?
I couldn't tell you a single narrative, false or otherwise, that Creature is weaving. If you're specific about what narrative you want my opinion on, I'd be happy to take a look though.

Creature I think is not displaying some of the stiltedness I see in his wolf games, and while he isn't as paranoid as I expect town!Creature, I'd still give him a town lean.
by Seanzie
Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:42 am
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

falcon45ca wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:29 am
Seanzie wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:21 am I feel like Dennis is more concerned with just hanging out in the thread and looking helpful and less concerned with hunting as he was in his first two games.

However, it still would be quite a good scum game for a first-time scum...

gotta follow my gut though and...

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine
Spoiler: show
You all expected me to vote Dennis, didn't you? Tricked ya! For now it is just tinfoil... but it is tinfoil I haven't been able to shake all game, and it has come and gone in waves, and the wave right now is cresting.
Why does your gut tell you Roxy? Are you able to articulate what's giving ya the heebie jeebies on their slot?
Oh, no. I see the confusion here. All of that was just words that were meant to lead you to think I was about to vote Dennis, before the BIG TWIST!

I'm voting Roxy less because I have any feelings about them and more because I think it is the right thing to do to move the game forward at this point.
by Seanzie
Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:23 am
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Seanzie wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:21 am I feel like Dennis is more concerned with just hanging out in the thread and looking helpful and less concerned with hunting as he was in his first two games.

However, it still would be quite a good scum game for a first-time scum...

gotta follow my gut though and...

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine
Spoiler: show
You all expected me to vote Dennis, didn't you? Tricked ya! For now it is just tinfoil... but it is tinfoil I haven't been able to shake all game, and it has come and gone in waves, and the wave right now is cresting.
Seanzie using a post talking about Dennis to stealthily slide onto Roxy without explanation:

Image
by Seanzie
Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:21 am
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

I feel like Dennis is more concerned with just hanging out in the thread and looking helpful and less concerned with hunting as he was in his first two games.

However, it still would be quite a good scum game for a first-time scum...

gotta follow my gut though and...

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine
Spoiler: show
You all expected me to vote Dennis, didn't you? Tricked ya! For now it is just tinfoil... but it is tinfoil I haven't been able to shake all game, and it has come and gone in waves, and the wave right now is cresting.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:20 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

RondoDimBuckle wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:18 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:12 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:04 pm this is a great game with solid communication and im fully enjoying myself
I also usually enjoy myself when I have no more than two votes in 16 players. Sometime I even enjoy myself with 3+ votes.
Im gonna be honest I am in the same box as you. I enjoy the game so far its fun but its different being IC to having people vote you. In a 20 player list I enjoy having anywhere upwards of 8 votes, it helps me feel alive.
Flame fanner. [VOTE: Rondo] aubergine
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:12 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:04 pm this is a great game with solid communication and im fully enjoying myself
I also usually enjoy myself when I have no more than two votes in 16 players. Sometime I even enjoy myself with 3+ votes.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:55 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

It's going to be glorious. She's going to be all like "why?" and I'm going to be all like "well, then, we're at an impasse, aren't we?". I'm excited.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:53 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:50 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:48 pm why
Because I think you're a wolf.
I am quite looking forward to @staypositivefriend's response.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:50 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:48 pm why
Because I think you're a wolf.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:48 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

[VOTE: SPF] aubergine
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:42 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

tutuu wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:32 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:30 pm I call shenanigans on Mac not posting again today.
cmon friends stop poking him leave him alone he's clearly very upset

iss chill

we got like 2 obvious wolves lined up for today and tomorrow

it'll get better (trust)
Can you let me know who the 2 obvious wolves are?
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:36 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

MacDougall wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:28 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:45 am
tutuu wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:39 am
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:35 am I really think this game makes a lot more sense if Mac is wolf, and I hope y'all wake up to the fact that if your PoE is all people who are kinda polarized, that doesn't really fit with how the game has gone.
this is essentially day 2

we have had 1 chop on a slanker - finger. the other chops were artificial

and zero meaningful night kills - no n1, and randed n2

if this was a natural mafia game and mac was alive for so long - day 3, with no dead wolves - sure

but this isnt a natural game, iss a role madness with crazy stuff impacting flips, take it into account plx

our numbers are bad coz i think the setup is a tad scumsided (we might lose 2 chops to godfather immunity and a 1-shot chop-prevention card) and/or we suck but this is still the early game
It isn't just about numbers. Mac has almost exclusively gone after LHF in wolfy ways and our ship has felt rudderless, even through most of D1.

The fact that Mac is trying to pretend like he doesn't have blood on his hands from the Alison wagon also looks bad IMO. If town!Mac just didn't realize the moon card would have been played and not realized how his D2 play would be taken advantage of, I think he'd own up to it and move on. Instead when I've pushed him about it, he pretends like it didn't happen and doesn't engage with the idea.

He's also tried to deflect me in ways that remind me of how he deflected me in GoC2021.
I have gone after the scummy players in this game. The same players that the town such as Alison, Baudib1 and probably Bereft have. Your obsession with the idea that they are LHF is weird. Who are these so called LHF that I've exclusively gone after. I want names. I want you to tell me how they are LHF, how LHF =/= mafia. If you want to say Fingersplints I'll give you 7 other names that voted FIngersplints. If you want to hang me because I miscued on a Fingersplints counterwagon to try to save Alison on day 1, then that's again, absurd. You are not attempting to read motivation at all. What is the mafia motivation for me to do that when the wagons at the time I did it were tvt Alison v Baudib1. It makes no sense. I clearly was trying to do what I felt was right for the town.

You say the gamestate is rudderless. You have been inhibiting my influence with this constant push. You are causing my influence to be a certain way and then scumreading me for something of your own cause.

I am not trying to pretend anything. I already literally said that sussing me for day 2 is fine. Literally. You are at a point where you're so confirmation biased that you are not even reading posts. You're just living in a fantasy world where you've caught the big Mac and are a hero and it's clouding everything about your judgement towards me, giving the mafia a free pass to pocketing me and essentially making this day pointless.

I am not posting again today.
What do you think of SPF's unexplained super strong townread on you? I made a big post about it, and I explored this originally because I thought you were wolf and I wanted to consider Mac/SPF, but I saw at least one world with an SPF/Mac w/t team. I'd like to hear your response to that.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:24 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Bereft wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:00 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:47 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:05 pm Also, @Bereft can you tldr your mafia experience level, and tell me who you know here and how familiar you are with people?
@Bereft this would help me a lot.
With?

I obviously would rather not share who my identity is. But I've played with lucy/Mac/Porscha/SPF, one of whom knows my identity, the others of whom will probably start guessing after this and probably figure out, and I've also played with some others here but not to any extent that I'm going to pretend to a know meta well enough.
With understanding you.

Alts are (to my knowledge) extremely rare at TS (and honestly I thought there was a rule against it, but I am probably wrong since I cannot find one on the site), so I haven't played in many games with them, but sure, if you want to not share your identity, you're allowed to play how you want. In turn, I am allowed to be skeptical of your meta knowledge on players/what you are doing with said meta knowledge. I'd like to see a game with you and Mac where Mac was polarized to back up the claim's you've made.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:49 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Porscha wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:41 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:21 pm
Porscha wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:20 am also spf I think I can say with some confidence that sean is town here. i've played with evil sean once and I was able to see through it
sean this game has been able to very like... be direct in his 1 on 1s with people. when he wolfed I saw a lot more deflection. I don't think you should be open to other thoughts on it today at the very very least
Can you give me an example of where I've been "direct in his 1 on 1s"?
literally any post you have with mac
I learned from an early age as a wolf that town!Mac and town!JJJ have a harder time finding you if you cast suspicion on them.

I'd prefer a specific example (plz quote a post) from someone who isn't Mac.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:47 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:05 pm Also, @Bereft can you tldr your mafia experience level, and tell me who you know here and how familiar you are with people?
@Bereft this would help me a lot.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:21 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Porscha wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:20 am also spf I think I can say with some confidence that sean is town here. i've played with evil sean once and I was able to see through it
sean this game has been able to very like... be direct in his 1 on 1s with people. when he wolfed I saw a lot more deflection. I don't think you should be open to other thoughts on it today at the very very least
Can you give me an example of where I've been "direct in his 1 on 1s"?
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:19 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:00 pm
DrWilgy wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:53 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:49 pm
DrWilgy wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:45 pm @Seanzie why is your game so much different than secret player list?
You'll have to elaborate on what exactly is different. I don't feel different, except for the obvious differences.
You feel more cautious in your takes.

You were very fire from the hip in secret player list, but in this game you've expressed fear on your read of me and your processes for other players seem to take more time. They are lengthier, thus at least to me, tells of a more cautionary approach to either reading or posting.
I do not fear reading you, I just know I don't know how to.

I do not feel the other things you're saying.
Hmm.....................

@DrWilgy is that it?
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:00 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

DrWilgy wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:53 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:49 pm
DrWilgy wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:45 pm @Seanzie why is your game so much different than secret player list?
You'll have to elaborate on what exactly is different. I don't feel different, except for the obvious differences.
You feel more cautious in your takes.

You were very fire from the hip in secret player list, but in this game you've expressed fear on your read of me and your processes for other players seem to take more time. They are lengthier, thus at least to me, tells of a more cautionary approach to either reading or posting.
I do not fear reading you, I just know I don't know how to.

I do not feel the other things you're saying.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:49 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

DrWilgy wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:45 pm @Seanzie why is your game so much different than secret player list?
You'll have to elaborate on what exactly is different. I don't feel different, except for the obvious differences.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:44 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

If this is a miss, I'm going ham on SPF/Mac/Bereft. If it is a hit, I'm accusing them of bussing.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:43 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:08 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

RondoDimBuckle wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:57 pm Bereft's play today has not been amazing imho and for someone under the radar his pushes and posts in the last few pages have felt wolfy to me. Mac is now in wolf range since he is pretending he doesnt know what I am talking about and I am removing my protection for Mac
Can you elaborate on Bereft? Which posts, and why?
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:05 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Also, @Bereft can you tldr your mafia experience level, and tell me who you know here and how familiar you are with people?
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:03 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Bereft wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:48 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:34 pm I think there is something very important going on between Mac and SPF.

tl;dr: SPF townreads Mac starting on Page 4, never gives a reason, not a single time, and it never wavers in the least. There are many w/w interactions between them. Mac looks like Mac wants to distance, but SPF is not doing a good job of showing critical thought on Mac. There is a small chance this is SPF/Mac w/t, but I think w/w powerwolfing is more likely here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So SPF has given me the heebee jeebees a few times, and Mac I think is playing like scum!Mac. SPF's most recent post where SPF said I was town for my case on Mac, and Mac questioned SPF's read on Mac, and SPF just said "I townread you" got my curious. I ISO'd SPF and ctrl+f'd the word "Mac". Here are the relevant posts I found, with my interpretations:
Spoiler: show
staypositivefriend wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:14 am im not bored anymore though. i think bereft is town. i think porscha is town. i think mac is town. i think sig might be town. still figuring it out from there
This is 4 pages in, SPF townreads Mac without having mentioned them before. No reason given. Nothing particularly sus about this at this time, but we'll see.

Also kinda curious about the Bereft read. They didn't even register on my radar that early, will have to ISO their early game to see if I can actually make sense of a new player being townread that quickly.
staypositivefriend wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:52 pm here's where i'm at rn. it's a bit more hedgy than i'd like but meh

if kate is mafia then alison is probably town because i dont think that the way kate reacted to alison’s push on her felt like W/W interaction. the same applies for roxy as well but i currently perceive kate as having a slightly higher chance of being mafia than roxy. as for alison herself, i dunno. i understand that some of her arguments are easy to perceive in bad faith (like the way she poked at roxy earlier in a way where it did kind of feel like she was trying to ~dunk~ on her more than anything), but i’ve also played enough with alison to know that this style of engagement isn’t alignment indicative

so in the absence of reasons to scumread alison, and because i think alison is unaligned with 2 other ppl who are kinda in my POE, i’m at the very least not willing to vote for alison today

i like that baub felt like he had kind of positioned himself to be able to push on seanzie but then ended up backing off of him anyway. i also think his push on jack has felt like it came fro ma place of conviction. i don’t know how to read baub at all but i think he’s fine s ofar

i thought the way that bereft pushed on me while revealing that he was secretly repping a townread on me while doing so was towny. i thought the way it felt like he was projecting his view of the game (ie: “i dont find the game boring but spf finds the game boring so t herefore spf be mafia) was towny too. i townlean him

i think that creature replied decently to my concerns about him, but i do still find it difficult to shake the feeling that he is being rather careless with the way he is posting reads and acting overly confident and haughty in a way that is uncharacteristic from pretty much every game ive seen for him

i think it bothers me for a few reasons:

-his focus is all off. creature has obsessed over reading mac and me correctly in every game iver played with him but here he is pushing more on the LHF and not really engaging with either of us much at all

-he just made a post that said: “This wagon is so bad we could prob nuke everyone in it” , and this is the exact type of attitude i struggle to believe that creature would have as town

honestly i m having trouble letting go of this read on creature because he keeps making posts that ping me even though i acknowledge i could be relying on meta too strongly or confirmation biasingm yself, but yeah

tbh i kind of like the fact that dennis went out of his way to limit himself for potential options to push (by saying he isnt willing to vote any of kate/neon/lucy/falcon very early into the game) but i’m kind of ambivalent about his posts beyond that

the readslist that wilgy posted on viewtopic.php?p=1002310#p1002310 didn’t really feel proportional to the solving he had done up to that point. i don’t really get anything alignment indicative out of the rest of the stuff he’s posted

i have no idea how to read falcon and im not going to pretend that i can

i think the way that fingersplints followed up my question about the alison/roxy dynamic was towny. i need to see her post more before i make up my mind on her alignment tho

i thought the way that jack dug in his heels and stubbornly continued to hard tunnel alison even after i questioned him/tried to talk him down felt like it came more from the perspective of a villager who felt convicted over their scumread and less from a wolf, since i think wolves are more likely to capitulate to pressure when they are being questioned on their reads like that, or at least say more hedgy stuff like “alison could be town but…”

tbh though i might be giving jack too much of a pass because at the end of the day i do think that his reasoning for scumread alison is kind of bad and im unconsciously operating under the assumption that he has a polarized wolfgame, which is kind of making me treat him with gids gloves. idk. i dont want this read to be as null at it is but there u go

i think that p#120 from kate was a wolfy post and came off a little bit self-conscious. i thought she responded to pressure somewhat awkwardly too. i don’t have any other thoughts

lucy is town

i think mac is probably town for reasons that ill explain if u really want me to

im mildly bothered by the way that neon has treated me in this game. she has consistently shaded me and implied that it was wolfy for me to think that the game was boring during the first few pages and has regularly downplayed townreads on me, but she has offered no commentary on my posts beyond that whatsoever and she seems barely interested in engaging with me/communicating with me at all

it reminds me of the sabi invitational game where she consistently treated me in bad faith when she was mafia and i let it slide because i thought she was tonally towny/she had conviction. she’s essentially treating me the same way here and i’ve had trouble getting past it. i don’t really care about her posts beyond that and ive barely paid attention to them

i think porsche is most likely town because i perceive her as being mildly polarized and the depth of analysis/thought that she has projected so far is proly town indicative for her, and because i think #760 in particular would be a difficult post for a wolf to write about themselves, particularly if they traditionally struggle with wolfing in general

holding off on my rondo read for reasons

i think it was mildly wolfy that roxy shifted her positioning toward kate a bit awkwardly when she was engaging with alison but i would be lying if i said if i thought that any of her posts were alignment indicative. i i get the sense that she’s the type of player that will project towniness better if she’s town if she is left alone and able to do her own thing, so im not really interested in adding to the pressure on her at the moment and i’d like to see how she plays when she isn’t being bombarded by the rest of the game

i thought it was towny that seanzie used his experience with my wolfgame as a foundation for his reado n me in this game. i’m kind of ambivalent about the rest of his posts but i proly wuldnt touch him today

sig had a towny opening but his vote on alison a little while ago was bad and felt opportunistic. i actually scumlean him now

one of my biggest concerns about tutu was actually that she was townreading me too easily and uncritically so the fact that she suddenly got super paranoid about me being mafia and revoked her townread felt towny. idk how to read he but i would also not touch her today for various reasons
Big post, read on Mac highlighted. Again, says Mac is town but does not give reasons. Why not elaborate here? It is a big enough post that I don't think SPF felt like they would be asked to elaborate.
Neon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:08 am
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:50 am
Neon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:47 am My strongest SR right now I think is Alison/Mac I just think they've been treating people poorly for bad reasons and are digging in their heels in a way that feels less like trying to solve the game and more like trying to make people look bad for things that aren't really that bad.
can you give me some examples of where you think mac specifically has done this?
That most recent post calling out half the player base for how they are playing when I think at least some of them are in their normal meta for one
SPF questions Neon about Mac, after Neon's response, SPF did not ever respond again.
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:29 pm
Baudib1 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:04 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:55 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:50 pm ftr im insecure about my vote on jack and im not sure that im going to hold there

i just prefer him over the baud/alison wagons atm
What wagon(s) would you prefer instead?
i perceive the pool of creature/splints/falcon/sig as being likely to contain at least 2 wolves
I would guess you are probably correct.

I would say of the people casing/pushing me, Rondo is almost certainly town; Seanzie feels genuine; Falcon seems extremely sus. Bereft feels pure and his casing of Falcon was solid work.

Splints/sig/wilgy are flying utr.

Roxy seems rand to me; I think the pushback on Alison is likely at least partially wolf-driven though that doesn't mean much for Roxy's alignment imo.

Pretty tough to yeet mafia in this game state with 5 living so if you want to move to another wagon please @me, i'm out of posts. Who else do you trust?
i townread mac, lucy, bereft, tutuu, you, and sig roughly in that order. i'm not willing to vote for alison today even though i'm not sure about her alignment

i had fingersplints as a light townlean but she just hopped on alison in a way that extremely rubs me the wrong way

rest of the game feels kind of inscrutable to me rn
Another Mac townread without explanation
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:58 pm mac
lucy
tutuu
dennis
bereft
rondo
baud

my current townreads in the exact order that i townread them. i think there is one mafia maximum in this pool

im capped now so gl gl
Another Mac townread without explanation.
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm
MacDougall wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:30 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:26 pm i really hope that a wolf did that.
I am not sure this is a real thought.
no, it was a bad decision but i dont care to debate it
possibly w/w theatre. Where did this go?
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:38 pm
MacDougall wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm
Alison wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:30 pm You guys should policy Mac if he doesn't produce pelts soon by the way since he's wrong on both fingersplints and me which is pretty out of form for him.
Shit I need to bus someone. Um, ah. Fuck um.

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine
slay queen
possibly w/w theatre. Weak w/w read though. Definitely w/w compatible, maybe not w/w indicative.
staypositivefriend wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:36 pm
MacDougall wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:34 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:33 pm
MacDougall wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:31 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:06 pm if creature roxy sig and jack contains more than one villager then this game is probably a loss
this is nonsense
why
it's blatantly untrue that town can't win unless all 3 are mafia and there's no reason to feel that way much less say it
your perception of the gamestate is very different from mine if you think that but okay
staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:51 am mine are mac, lucy, and bereft. if lucy doesn't count, then i would add tutuu.
SPF loves talking about their Mac townread. Also Bereft really fits the idea of SPF trying to hard powerwolf. As others have mentioned, Bereft clearly is not a newbie, and with almost nothing else known about them, I have a hard time thinking people are going to towncore them this hard. I need to give them a careful lookover before I really commit to this idea, so this is more spitballing than confident thought, but right now, SPF powerwolfing with Mac and Bereft is on my mind. For those who said Bereft wouldn't need to do what they've done as a wolf and could just slank since they're new, I mean... aren't they kinda doing that, just not completely and outrightly playing bad? I know the few times I've wolfed on my first time on a new sight, I've come off as a quiet but insightful townie.
staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:44 pm
MacDougall wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:28 am
staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:56 am cant sleep and wanted to share the stray thought that out of all the people who have pushed/shaded mac, seanzie is the towniest of them. his read on mac has a level of specificity (ie: him comparing mac to his wolfgame in GoC, him accusing mac of trying to destroy his WIM, him accusing mac of sharing responsibility for the alison wagon) that make me think he is putting real thought into mac's alignment, and the way he has kind of dug in his heels on his mac read upon being pressured makes me think that the conviction behind his real is real

i think a world where seanzie is a wolf pushing on mac only really makes sense to me if the rest of his team is cornered and he doesn't have many other viable options, but even in that world, i would expect seanzie to be a little bit more strategic about the way that he's pushing mac instead of just loudly insisting he's mafia in the most brazen way possible

i have no idea what seanzie's wolf meta is like so im open to other thoughts but yeah
and why is he not just correct?

btw porscha is lock town now
because i do not think you are mafia even if there exists a theoretical world in which you are playing significantly townier than every wolfgame i have seen from ou
Again no explanation of the town!Mac read here. This one I REALLY don't like, because the question isn't "Do you townread me?", it's "why isn't Sean correct", and SPF responded by NOT saying WHY they townread Mac, just that they townread Mac. "why isn't Sean correct" in this context is asking "WHY do you townread Mac". Bad. Bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad BAD.

I'd really like some input on this. The game does not feel like it is a bunch of polarized people and slankers wolfing. I think with 5 wolves in a 20 person setup, powerwolfing makes sense. Please someone talk to me.

---------------------------------------
After going through and commenting on all the posts in the above spoiler, a new line of thinking came to me, included below. Spoilered because I am not super confident about it and it is not fully fleshed out and I don't want it to detract from what I have above about Mac/SPF (even though some if it leaked into the thoughts about the posts I've quoted)
Spoiler: show
Bereft fits perfectly into a Mac/SPF powerwolfing team, at least based on these posts and what I can remember off the top of my head from Bereft's play. I'mma go ISO them
I don't know of a satisfactory way that does not require a dissertation length post, or at least something that would cause me a great deal of intellectual labor to come across as being appropriately convincing since it seems that you're really in the weeds with this.

I believe that Mac is a polarized player, and that it is easy to distinguish their ranges as long as you pay attention to the right things, and the only problem is that everyone pays attention to the wrong things and over level themselves because Mac is all powerful and can apparently do anything as wolf and can only destroy wolves as town.

If you want to scumread all of the stronger players for having this exact same opinion on Mac, then that is a worldview one can construct (have you considered Lucy yet for diving a locktown Mac out of thin air?, oh wait I forgot they're the oracle, so it would just be me and SPF), but I would only ask that you elaborate on why exactly the gamestate points to the obvious pool of wolves not containing enough of them. You claim that the POE consists of the polarized players and slankers and that it "doesn't feel that why". Firstly, who are the polarized players being misread? Mac already admitted that their Falcon scumread was heavily OMGUS based and should not be trusted. Are there other people who are obv town by meta that are being scumread? Because I cannot seem to find any, and if you'd read my coldlist you'd know that I pay a great deal attention to claims of alignment based on meta. Secondly, I understand that uncovering Mac powerwolfing with SPF and Bereft is glamorous, but I don't even understand what vibes would lead you to think that is especially likely. Do you think Creature is mafia? Because if not, the D1 wagons were all on town and all of us, (Mac/SPF/me) stated pretty clearly that we thought the wagons were awful in tandem with baudib. (note that SPF scumread creature but I would think this to be a minor point)

This is also coincidentally why I most want sig dead if possible, because it would pretty much expose what's been happening all along FMPOV.
What are those things?

Falcon, Creature, maybe Porscha. I'm also not super sold on Roxy, but I am not confident there because they could be experiencing wolf-fatigue causing their play to be very different then their last two games.

You yourself say here that D1 wagons were mostly on town. D2 I think it is extremely likely the wolves got off a good use of the moon card even after getting a bit knocked back by the sun card. These things require thread control, if there was a strong towncore of top players that formed on Page 5, how is it that every indication is suggesting that town is way off? Those vibes.

Regardless, your inclusion, as I very strongly indicated, was a weak read, more of a "I need to check on this" rather than something I wanted to argue about. Can you talk to me about the main point, that SPF has been just declaring Mac town from the start and hasn't explained at all, and that SPF/Mac interactions could be w/w? I get your name showing up makes you want to talk about that, but I don't want to talk about that, especially after reading your first nine posts. I want to talk about Mac and SPF.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:52 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

falcon45ca wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:47 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:41 pm
falcon45ca wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:39 pm [VOTE: mac] aubergine
Are you trying to buddy me?
If you don't think I've been SR Mac for a long time...scratch that, I know you do.
Well sure, I'm not accusing you of lack of progression. That doesn't mean though that you aren't a wolf sitting on my shoulder deciding to whisper sweet nothings in my ear as I push Mac.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:45 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Re:Bereft: Okay, there was a bit more between Bereft and SPF before SPF started to townread Bereft on Page 5* (I thought it was page 4, but it is early page 5). I continue to not be super confident about Bereft's connection/involvement, but I still think they are at least compatible.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:41 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

falcon45ca wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:39 pm [VOTE: mac] aubergine
Are you trying to buddy me?
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:34 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

I think there is something very important going on between Mac and SPF.

tl;dr: SPF townreads Mac starting on Page 4, never gives a reason, not a single time, and it never wavers in the least. There are many w/w interactions between them. Mac looks like Mac wants to distance, but SPF is not doing a good job of showing critical thought on Mac. There is a small chance this is SPF/Mac w/t, but I think w/w powerwolfing is more likely here.

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So SPF has given me the heebee jeebees a few times, and Mac I think is playing like scum!Mac. SPF's most recent post where SPF said I was town for my case on Mac, and Mac questioned SPF's read on Mac, and SPF just said "I townread you" got my curious. I ISO'd SPF and ctrl+f'd the word "Mac". Here are the relevant posts I found, with my interpretations:
Spoiler: show
staypositivefriend wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:14 am im not bored anymore though. i think bereft is town. i think porscha is town. i think mac is town. i think sig might be town. still figuring it out from there
This is 4 pages in, SPF townreads Mac without having mentioned them before. No reason given. Nothing particularly sus about this at this time, but we'll see.

Also kinda curious about the Bereft read. They didn't even register on my radar that early, will have to ISO their early game to see if I can actually make sense of a new player being townread that quickly.
staypositivefriend wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:52 pm here's where i'm at rn. it's a bit more hedgy than i'd like but meh

if kate is mafia then alison is probably town because i dont think that the way kate reacted to alison’s push on her felt like W/W interaction. the same applies for roxy as well but i currently perceive kate as having a slightly higher chance of being mafia than roxy. as for alison herself, i dunno. i understand that some of her arguments are easy to perceive in bad faith (like the way she poked at roxy earlier in a way where it did kind of feel like she was trying to ~dunk~ on her more than anything), but i’ve also played enough with alison to know that this style of engagement isn’t alignment indicative

so in the absence of reasons to scumread alison, and because i think alison is unaligned with 2 other ppl who are kinda in my POE, i’m at the very least not willing to vote for alison today

i like that baub felt like he had kind of positioned himself to be able to push on seanzie but then ended up backing off of him anyway. i also think his push on jack has felt like it came fro ma place of conviction. i don’t know how to read baub at all but i think he’s fine s ofar

i thought the way that bereft pushed on me while revealing that he was secretly repping a townread on me while doing so was towny. i thought the way it felt like he was projecting his view of the game (ie: “i dont find the game boring but spf finds the game boring so t herefore spf be mafia) was towny too. i townlean him

i think that creature replied decently to my concerns about him, but i do still find it difficult to shake the feeling that he is being rather careless with the way he is posting reads and acting overly confident and haughty in a way that is uncharacteristic from pretty much every game ive seen for him

i think it bothers me for a few reasons:

-his focus is all off. creature has obsessed over reading mac and me correctly in every game iver played with him but here he is pushing more on the LHF and not really engaging with either of us much at all

-he just made a post that said: “This wagon is so bad we could prob nuke everyone in it” , and this is the exact type of attitude i struggle to believe that creature would have as town

honestly i m having trouble letting go of this read on creature because he keeps making posts that ping me even though i acknowledge i could be relying on meta too strongly or confirmation biasingm yself, but yeah

tbh i kind of like the fact that dennis went out of his way to limit himself for potential options to push (by saying he isnt willing to vote any of kate/neon/lucy/falcon very early into the game) but i’m kind of ambivalent about his posts beyond that

the readslist that wilgy posted on viewtopic.php?p=1002310#p1002310 didn’t really feel proportional to the solving he had done up to that point. i don’t really get anything alignment indicative out of the rest of the stuff he’s posted

i have no idea how to read falcon and im not going to pretend that i can

i think the way that fingersplints followed up my question about the alison/roxy dynamic was towny. i need to see her post more before i make up my mind on her alignment tho

i thought the way that jack dug in his heels and stubbornly continued to hard tunnel alison even after i questioned him/tried to talk him down felt like it came more from the perspective of a villager who felt convicted over their scumread and less from a wolf, since i think wolves are more likely to capitulate to pressure when they are being questioned on their reads like that, or at least say more hedgy stuff like “alison could be town but…”

tbh though i might be giving jack too much of a pass because at the end of the day i do think that his reasoning for scumread alison is kind of bad and im unconsciously operating under the assumption that he has a polarized wolfgame, which is kind of making me treat him with gids gloves. idk. i dont want this read to be as null at it is but there u go

i think that p#120 from kate was a wolfy post and came off a little bit self-conscious. i thought she responded to pressure somewhat awkwardly too. i don’t have any other thoughts

lucy is town

i think mac is probably town for reasons that ill explain if u really want me to

im mildly bothered by the way that neon has treated me in this game. she has consistently shaded me and implied that it was wolfy for me to think that the game was boring during the first few pages and has regularly downplayed townreads on me, but she has offered no commentary on my posts beyond that whatsoever and she seems barely interested in engaging with me/communicating with me at all

it reminds me of the sabi invitational game where she consistently treated me in bad faith when she was mafia and i let it slide because i thought she was tonally towny/she had conviction. she’s essentially treating me the same way here and i’ve had trouble getting past it. i don’t really care about her posts beyond that and ive barely paid attention to them

i think porsche is most likely town because i perceive her as being mildly polarized and the depth of analysis/thought that she has projected so far is proly town indicative for her, and because i think #760 in particular would be a difficult post for a wolf to write about themselves, particularly if they traditionally struggle with wolfing in general

holding off on my rondo read for reasons

i think it was mildly wolfy that roxy shifted her positioning toward kate a bit awkwardly when she was engaging with alison but i would be lying if i said if i thought that any of her posts were alignment indicative. i i get the sense that she’s the type of player that will project towniness better if she’s town if she is left alone and able to do her own thing, so im not really interested in adding to the pressure on her at the moment and i’d like to see how she plays when she isn’t being bombarded by the rest of the game

i thought it was towny that seanzie used his experience with my wolfgame as a foundation for his reado n me in this game. i’m kind of ambivalent about the rest of his posts but i proly wuldnt touch him today

sig had a towny opening but his vote on alison a little while ago was bad and felt opportunistic. i actually scumlean him now

one of my biggest concerns about tutu was actually that she was townreading me too easily and uncritically so the fact that she suddenly got super paranoid about me being mafia and revoked her townread felt towny. idk how to read he but i would also not touch her today for various reasons
Big post, read on Mac highlighted. Again, says Mac is town but does not give reasons. Why not elaborate here? It is a big enough post that I don't think SPF felt like they would be asked to elaborate.
Neon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:08 am
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:50 am
Neon wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:47 am My strongest SR right now I think is Alison/Mac I just think they've been treating people poorly for bad reasons and are digging in their heels in a way that feels less like trying to solve the game and more like trying to make people look bad for things that aren't really that bad.
can you give me some examples of where you think mac specifically has done this?
That most recent post calling out half the player base for how they are playing when I think at least some of them are in their normal meta for one
SPF questions Neon about Mac, after Neon's response, SPF did not ever respond again.
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:29 pm
Baudib1 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:04 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:55 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:50 pm ftr im insecure about my vote on jack and im not sure that im going to hold there

i just prefer him over the baud/alison wagons atm
What wagon(s) would you prefer instead?
i perceive the pool of creature/splints/falcon/sig as being likely to contain at least 2 wolves
I would guess you are probably correct.

I would say of the people casing/pushing me, Rondo is almost certainly town; Seanzie feels genuine; Falcon seems extremely sus. Bereft feels pure and his casing of Falcon was solid work.

Splints/sig/wilgy are flying utr.

Roxy seems rand to me; I think the pushback on Alison is likely at least partially wolf-driven though that doesn't mean much for Roxy's alignment imo.

Pretty tough to yeet mafia in this game state with 5 living so if you want to move to another wagon please @me, i'm out of posts. Who else do you trust?
i townread mac, lucy, bereft, tutuu, you, and sig roughly in that order. i'm not willing to vote for alison today even though i'm not sure about her alignment

i had fingersplints as a light townlean but she just hopped on alison in a way that extremely rubs me the wrong way

rest of the game feels kind of inscrutable to me rn
Another Mac townread without explanation
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:58 pm mac
lucy
tutuu
dennis
bereft
rondo
baud

my current townreads in the exact order that i townread them. i think there is one mafia maximum in this pool

im capped now so gl gl
Another Mac townread without explanation.
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm
MacDougall wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:30 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:26 pm i really hope that a wolf did that.
I am not sure this is a real thought.
no, it was a bad decision but i dont care to debate it
possibly w/w theatre. Where did this go?
staypositivefriend wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:38 pm
MacDougall wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm
Alison wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:30 pm You guys should policy Mac if he doesn't produce pelts soon by the way since he's wrong on both fingersplints and me which is pretty out of form for him.
Shit I need to bus someone. Um, ah. Fuck um.

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine
slay queen
possibly w/w theatre. Weak w/w read though. Definitely w/w compatible, maybe not w/w indicative.
staypositivefriend wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:36 pm
MacDougall wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:34 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:33 pm
MacDougall wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:31 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:06 pm if creature roxy sig and jack contains more than one villager then this game is probably a loss
this is nonsense
why
it's blatantly untrue that town can't win unless all 3 are mafia and there's no reason to feel that way much less say it
your perception of the gamestate is very different from mine if you think that but okay
staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:51 am mine are mac, lucy, and bereft. if lucy doesn't count, then i would add tutuu.
SPF loves talking about their Mac townread. Also Bereft really fits the idea of SPF trying to hard powerwolf. As others have mentioned, Bereft clearly is not a newbie, and with almost nothing else known about them, I have a hard time thinking people are going to towncore them this hard. I need to give them a careful lookover before I really commit to this idea, so this is more spitballing than confident thought, but right now, SPF powerwolfing with Mac and Bereft is on my mind. For those who said Bereft wouldn't need to do what they've done as a wolf and could just slank since they're new, I mean... aren't they kinda doing that, just not completely and outrightly playing bad? I know the few times I've wolfed on my first time on a new sight, I've come off as a quiet but insightful townie.
staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:44 pm
MacDougall wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:28 am
staypositivefriend wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:56 am cant sleep and wanted to share the stray thought that out of all the people who have pushed/shaded mac, seanzie is the towniest of them. his read on mac has a level of specificity (ie: him comparing mac to his wolfgame in GoC, him accusing mac of trying to destroy his WIM, him accusing mac of sharing responsibility for the alison wagon) that make me think he is putting real thought into mac's alignment, and the way he has kind of dug in his heels on his mac read upon being pressured makes me think that the conviction behind his real is real

i think a world where seanzie is a wolf pushing on mac only really makes sense to me if the rest of his team is cornered and he doesn't have many other viable options, but even in that world, i would expect seanzie to be a little bit more strategic about the way that he's pushing mac instead of just loudly insisting he's mafia in the most brazen way possible

i have no idea what seanzie's wolf meta is like so im open to other thoughts but yeah
and why is he not just correct?

btw porscha is lock town now
because i do not think you are mafia even if there exists a theoretical world in which you are playing significantly townier than every wolfgame i have seen from ou
Again no explanation of the town!Mac read here. This one I REALLY don't like, because the question isn't "Do you townread me?", it's "why isn't Sean correct", and SPF responded by NOT saying WHY they townread Mac, just that they townread Mac. "why isn't Sean correct" in this context is asking "WHY do you townread Mac". Bad. Bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad BAD.

I'd really like some input on this. The game does not feel like it is a bunch of polarized people and slankers wolfing. I think with 5 wolves in a 20 person setup, powerwolfing makes sense. Please someone talk to me.

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After going through and commenting on all the posts in the above spoiler, a new line of thinking came to me, included below. Spoilered because I am not super confident about it and it is not fully fleshed out and I don't want it to detract from what I have above about Mac/SPF (even though some if it leaked into the thoughts about the posts I've quoted)
Spoiler: show
Bereft fits perfectly into a Mac/SPF powerwolfing team, at least based on these posts and what I can remember off the top of my head from Bereft's play. I'mma go ISO them
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:08 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

I feel like my opinions are in the minority in the thread, and I am worried about what that means.
by Seanzie
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:00 pm
Forum: Previous Rackets
Topic: Cartomancy [Game Over]
Replies: 4390
Views: 71877

Re: Cartomancy [Day 3]

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:39 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:43 pm
Porscha wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:12 pm
Seanzie wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:50 pm
Baudib1 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:44 pm Ok so @Seanzie I guess we would like you to clarify. Do you have mechanical information that indicate Mac and Jack are wolves?
no bro, don't you know that if I did I couldn't say it but hey it isn't the case anyway, so sit down and just drown in the fact that "Mac and Jack ate a shortstack of flapjacks in wolf chat" is a fact that I deduced by being a sleuth, reading the thread, using my head. No cards jarred these facts that I spread.
Are you able to elaborate on what lead you to that conclusion then pls
This post:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:56 pm
tutuu wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:52 pm If alison is mafia i feel like 2 or maybe 3 of the people vehemently pushing her are also mafia

Looking at jack and sig

A possible explanation for the behavior "alison maf, i aint moving, nu-uh, nothing else exists i put my hands on my ears lalalalala" is an orchestrated bus, maybe alison has exams or something she always has exams :P

(I still have an unconfident townread on her, just exploring an option)
Aww darn you got me but I guess I’ll double down and hope for the best. Maybe reverse psychology will keep you from yeeting Alison, who is wolves with me.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine
Is a wolf who is saying "Haha, you're pairing me with a townie, you think you've caught me but you're right for the wrong reasons and it will fall apart when Alison flips". Jack HAS been got, just not for the reasons Tutuu is putting out.

I don't remember the specifics behind Mac, but I'm sure they were breathtakingly convincing, and could stand alone without considering that Mac is eating villagers for breakfast left and right.
This is kinda dumb cause like....I do exactly that when I'm a townie accused of being w/w with my top suspect but whatever.
Meh, I'm over it.

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