The Syndicate

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:35 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:32 pm I think Pyxxy/Robyn is a world that could make sense. Pyxxy has done a whole lot to look like they sus Robyn today without actually doing anything, and Robyn is just a big ole' ?????

Wilgy/Rem I feel are mildy anti-teamed (I wouldn't bet FX on it). I'm not sure I feel anything about any other matchups between people in those 4.
the only people who have done less than me to sus Robyn today are

oh wait

it's the entire thread and I called you all out on it

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:31 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:28 pm so

everyone wants to scumlean Robyn

but nobody wants to vote Robyn, except me yesterday

Robyn spewed town by the thread, confirmed
solve remains Seanzie/Epi

early D2 (today) was theater to somewhat distance/somewhat clear Seanzie

flip me if you don't believe me
try again

or flip me if you don't believe me

Yes, you sussed Robyn with a SUPER STRONG Naked vote, and then a "why not?" and then declaring them town off nothing.

Sorry, I forgot this was supposed to clear Pyxxy/Robyn...

I mean, Robyn could be with anyone at this point, but yeah... the more I think about it, the more I don't like Pyxxy's Robyn stuff today.

Pyxxy posted a vote on Robyn with "look a distraction".

Didn't mention them again until Pyxxy put Seanzie, Epi, Robyn as PoE.

When asked "why Robyn?" their response was "why not?"

then declared Robyn spewed town by the thread.

I think Pyxxy/Robyn is a world that could make sense. Pyxxy has done a whole lot to look like they sus Robyn today without actually doing anything, and Robyn is just a big ole' ?????

Wilgy/Rem I feel are mildy anti-teamed (I wouldn't bet FX on it). I'm not sure I feel anything about any other matchups between people in those 4.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:19 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:17 pm {Wilgy, Rem, Pyxxy, Robyn}
our PoEs align so this is a good thing.

Why are you clearing Epi?

{Wilgy, Rem, Pyxxy, Robyn}

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:06 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:04 pm I also don't want to discourage anyone from actively participating, but I do feel like the way Wilgy is fighting so hard right now makes me think more of scum than town. Wilgy doesn't like being scum much I don't think, but he takes his duty to his team pretty seriously. Having some heat on him here has lit a fire under him that I usually don't see when town!Wilgy gets suspected.
I'm a fan of his solving energy atm, so I'm inclined to TR his slot.

Do you find it typical of town!Wilgy to act like this under suspicion though?

I also don't want to discourage anyone from actively participating, but I do feel like the way Wilgy is fighting so hard right now makes me think more of scum than town. Wilgy doesn't like being scum much I don't think, but he takes his duty to his team pretty seriously. Having some heat on him here has lit a fire under him that I usually don't see when town!Wilgy gets suspected.

Rem again did not respond to my request for a few previous scum games, so I painstakingly found one on my own (they were scum in the recent MU mash, but that is a whole different sort of game so I ignored it).

Here is one from January: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... r-by-Pizza

In this and in the 2 town games that Zenon posted (I am ignoring the one where they did nothing but post random numbers and votes), Rem was much less fluff. As such, I'm going to say that possible reasons for their fluff include:

1.) being on a new site, and

2.) Zenon

However, in their town games, they have super sharp nuanced solvy moments, whereas in their scum game, they tend to be more soft shading.

I feel like if I remove the fluff, Rem is still closer to their mafia self than their town self, but I don't think the fluff itself is necessarily AI, and I feel marginally better about them now after looking at a scum game than I did after perusing a few of their town games.

I was gonna write more where I pull quotes from their old town and scum games, but that was 2 hours ago, and 2 hours ago Seanzie was a lot more excited about the prospect of doing that than current Seanzie.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:59 pm where did everyone go?

I'm teaching a class... while also typing up a post about FINALLY FINDING a scum!Rem game after digging through MU for like two hours. Will come soon (or not... I am actually teaching a class currently, so gotta pay some attention to that)

Rem wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:35 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:18 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:05 am [VOTE: sean] aubergine
No.

Look at the gamestate. I am clearly the one most pushing the game forward at this point.

Zenon and Rem are just fluff after fluff. Robyn is afk. Wilgy has been afk until I started pushing on them. Guillo and Epi have done some stuff. Pyxxy has done nothing.

No.

If you all actually vote me out here (and it is going that way, but it shouldn't be), like... I don't even know what to say.

Literally the one person hardpushing for ACTUAL SOLVING, and the one person ACTUALLY QUESTIONING PEOPLE ON THEIR READS... yup. Vote them off.
it is often the ones trying to look townie, the ones who are scum tho

unless level 0 play

Also, can you please link your two most recent scumgames like I asked earlier?

Rem wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:35 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:18 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:05 am [VOTE: sean] aubergine
No.

Look at the gamestate. I am clearly the one most pushing the game forward at this point.

Zenon and Rem are just fluff after fluff. Robyn is afk. Wilgy has been afk until I started pushing on them. Guillo and Epi have done some stuff. Pyxxy has done nothing.

No.

If you all actually vote me out here (and it is going that way, but it shouldn't be), like... I don't even know what to say.

Literally the one person hardpushing for ACTUAL SOLVING, and the one person ACTUALLY QUESTIONING PEOPLE ON THEIR READS... yup. Vote them off.
it is often the ones trying to look townie, the ones who are scum tho

unless level 0 play

While there is something to "they don't care if they live", it is something that is easily fakable as a wolf (and opens up easy wolf play, since a wolf can do things like deliberately avoid answering questions to fake it - STARES RIGHT AT YOU), anyone who actually TRIES and FOLLOWS THEIR WINCON should be making an effort to be townread, so the vast majority of the time, this is NAI.

There are exceptions of course - sometimes people are like "yeah, elim me and sheep me" (I know I just did that, not saying you should give me towncred for it, but this is a situation where it can look really townie) and it is clear they are town, and there are other situations where people are like "oh, the gamestate is fine, I don't care if I go over... except now I'mma panick as it is happening" which look really wolfy, but those are exceptions, not the norm. If you don't actively try to be townread as town, whatever. I do.

Especially in this gamestate. From my POV we are NOT in a good place, and if y'all elim me right now (especially without having someone step up like I've tried to do today to get actual game-related activity out of people), I see this more than likely going to a town loss. This is NOT just my elim I'm considering here, and so I am NOT going to lie down and take it, and that IS townie.

Everyone,

hammer Wilgy please.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:22 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:22 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:20 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:18 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:08 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 11:07 pm The Seanzie Challenge: Go through Seanzie's posts and find one (1) instance in which Seanzie asked me a question that wasn't issuing a busywork assignment or following up on a busywork assignment.
Oh shit, lmao you did this to Epi too?
agenda.
buzzword.
Flip this after I flip.
no me first.

Deal. Vote yourself.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:20 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:18 am Wilgy has been afk until I started pushing on them.
And this is just slander. I was busy yesterday and responded to all direct notifications that warranted.

You also just happened to be the person to respond to what I responded to in direct notification because you are here.

Not slander. Calling it how I see it. No more, no less.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:20 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:18 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:08 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 11:07 pm The Seanzie Challenge: Go through Seanzie's posts and find one (1) instance in which Seanzie asked me a question that wasn't issuing a busywork assignment or following up on a busywork assignment.
Oh shit, lmao you did this to Epi too?
agenda.
buzzword.

Flip this after I flip.

Wilgy was clearly giving himself space to pivot onto me, and I called him out on it.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:08 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 11:07 pm The Seanzie Challenge: Go through Seanzie's posts and find one (1) instance in which Seanzie asked me a question that wasn't issuing a busywork assignment or following up on a busywork assignment.
Oh shit, lmao you did this to Epi too?

agenda.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:05 am [VOTE: sean] aubergine

No.

Look at the gamestate. I am clearly the one most pushing the game forward at this point.

Zenon and Rem are just fluff after fluff. Robyn is afk. Wilgy has been afk until I started pushing on them. Guillo and Epi have done some stuff. Pyxxy has done nothing.

No.

If you all actually vote me out here (and it is going that way, but it shouldn't be), like... I don't even know what to say.

Literally the one person hardpushing for ACTUAL SOLVING, and the one person ACTUALLY QUESTIONING PEOPLE ON THEIR READS... yup. Vote them off.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:24 am Actually, you also had this earlier in slight of my gimmick that I thought was unnecessary.
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:36 pm How is your read on Wilgy? I am very bad at reading them, and am not a super-fan of their gimmick this game, but would be interested in hearing from people who might be better at reading him (if they exist).
Bruh were you lookin to sink them teeth into me? Am I that cute?

Yup.

I've been steadily getting the feeling that the current gamestate is eff'ed, and that wolves are sleepin' easy. First with Guillo/Epi, and now even I'm thinking about giving Zenon/Rem a pass (even though I still think Rem needs to be resolved, and I don't feel convinced by Zenon's arguments there).

Where is that landing me? Who can be sleeping easy right now?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:23 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:18 am Yeah, that doesn't scream "yeet Sean" to me. You're using dead people's reads with an agenda.
I don't think Cape would be one to tonally scream regardless, but what makes this agenda? had you asked about Robyn and Pyxxy I would've said Cape also said yeet there?

Again, 26.4% overly eager to nitpick vernacular on a read that I even advised was undeveloped.

I'm a wagon, and I'm in the bottom of your sus list, but you "read me as town", but state Cape's read on me as if they were calling for my head, and claim that's your reason for my placement there.

Nothing nitpicky about that.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:14 am
Cape90 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:51 pm So I will cut EOD pretty close

I still think Guillotine is just town here and am not sure what the votes on him are about

I'm considering getting off pyxxy because if he is wolf, I would not expect his mafia partner to try? Like just because of how nothing he is playing and I get the vibe of people trying this game

Cape90 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:53 pm [VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

I don't like this vote too much.

Oddly enough I feel like if pyxxy is mafia the other is robyn and just her?

Which doesn't feel correct

Cape90 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:59 pm
robyn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:54 pm
Cape90 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:53 pm [VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

I don't like this vote too much.

Oddly enough I feel like if pyxxy is mafia the other is robyn and just her?

Which doesn't feel correct
i'm voting pyxxy as u said this
Yeah I realized that after I scrolled up

IDK I could just be wrong I just feel as if, if pyxxy is mafia then the other one would be in doomer mode or whatever
So the way I see Cape's posts before EoD I see
T Guillo

W Sean, Robyn, Pyx and Tutuu in that order of bottom of totem pole from least to most scummy per Cape.

Yeah, that doesn't scream "yeet Sean" to me. You're using dead people's reads with an agenda.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:11 am Eager Seanzie, far to eager lmao

Yeah? What does that mean about me? Tell me more, buddy.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:10 am Robyn and Pyxxy are also in the same tier as you in the rainbow. Don't get your shoe laces befuddled because you specifically asked about yourself and Rem looking for this.

Where did Cape say to yeet me?

Oh ho ho!!! This get's better!

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:57 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:47 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:45 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:27 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:29 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:31 pm I don't want to vote Guillo, Epi, Falcon or Pyxxy.

@DrWilgy @Zenon @Rem @robyn
Sup dood?
Can you give me a summary of your thoughts (a rainbow list or top 3 town/scum or something)?
behold the 47.25% uninformed rainbow.
Zenon
Falc
Epi
Guillo
Seanzie
Rem
Robyn
Pyyxy

Order within color brackets has no meaning. color has no meaning. nothing has meaning.
Why Zenon so high, and me so low?
Zenon really feels like town Zenon

You felt like town you, but T Cape said yeet you, and T Tutuu said to sheep Zenon who said to yeet you. SO your position is an ACK that I'm big dumb 28.9892% of the time and that I could be wrong.

Where is that?

Here?

Cape90 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:53 pm [VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

I don't like this vote too much.

Oddly enough I feel like if pyxxy is mafia the other is robyn and just her?

Which doesn't feel correct

Which was followed up with moving their vote to Tutuu 3 minutes later?

"I don't like this vote too much" equates to "yeet Seanzie"? Uhh huh...

So...

Wilgy is misrepresenting Cape, and "sheeping tutuu, sheeping zenon" on me, but NOT Rem?

Nah.

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:57 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:47 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:45 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:27 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:29 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:31 pm I don't want to vote Guillo, Epi, Falcon or Pyxxy.

@DrWilgy @Zenon @Rem @robyn
Sup dood?
Can you give me a summary of your thoughts (a rainbow list or top 3 town/scum or something)?
behold the 47.25% uninformed rainbow.
Zenon
Falc
Epi
Guillo
Seanzie
Rem
Robyn
Pyyxy

Order within color brackets has no meaning. color has no meaning. nothing has meaning.
Why Zenon so high, and me so low?
Zenon really feels like town Zenon

You felt like town you, but T Cape said yeet you, and T Tutuu said to sheep Zenon who said to yeet you. SO your position is an ACK that I'm big dumb 28.9892% of the time and that I could be wrong.

How do you tell the difference between town!Zenon and wolf!Zenon?

Zenon admits they suck at scumreads. Does that factor into your two-layer sheep read?

If you are sheeping Zenon on her scumread of me, why is Rem so low?

@pyxxy @Zenon I suggest you re-eval. My D1 I think a careful reader can clearly tell I believed my pushes. Today, I believe I have been the person who is most trying to solve the game and find a cohesive worldview. There have been no actual points against me made by anyone that I am aware of (correct me if I'm wrong). Aside from possible tinfoil, there is no reason to vote me here.

@robyn You've been afk for almost all of D2. Where is your head at?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:45 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:27 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:29 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:31 pm I don't want to vote Guillo, Epi, Falcon or Pyxxy.

@DrWilgy @Zenon @Rem @robyn
Sup dood?
Can you give me a summary of your thoughts (a rainbow list or top 3 town/scum or something)?
behold the 47.25% uninformed rainbow.
Zenon
Falc
Epi
Guillo
Seanzie
Rem
Robyn
Pyyxy

Order within color brackets has no meaning. color has no meaning. nothing has meaning.

Why Zenon so high, and me so low?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:29 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:31 pm I don't want to vote Guillo, Epi, Falcon or Pyxxy.

@DrWilgy @Zenon @Rem @robyn
Sup dood?

Can you give me a summary of your thoughts (a rainbow list or top 3 town/scum or something)?

Rem wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:28 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:24 am Rem

Rem

Rem

Hi.

Who's your top 3 town? And top 3 scum?

Also.

What anime should I watch?
Town Zenon drwilgy Robyn
Scum guillotine, 1 in seanzie/epi, falcon

I'm watching liar liar and masamune's revenge this season

Which genre are you looking for a recommendation?

What happened to your earlier townread on me that you refused to elaborate on?

Zenon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:06 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:00 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:20 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:17 pm @Zenon

Im hating that you decided to vote me when i decided to support pressure on Rem, when just a few hours ago you were ok with sheeping me on Epignosis.

You called us having a skill issue in reading Rem not that we were scummy for it, you said that you think im town but because Rem is getting pressure and she is the friend you love to play with then you are willing to vote out a townread over her, whom you townread for NAI reasons.

And the worst part is that i actually townread it because i doubt you are not self conscious to know how bad it looks Neon, i also dont think you are paired because what wolf team makes a defense like yours so obvious and risk getting executed back to back.
Well it's not NAI and I have literally correctly read Rem in every single game I've played with her even as town had in most of them voted her out and killed her despite this

To insinuate that I'm just town reading sometime and playing in any way around a friendship is insulting but I digress

Anyways yes I voted you to tie the wagons
Ok. I apologize for accusing you of defending Rem based on friendship.

I still disagree the townread but I can see that you believe in it.

That said, can you give us links to town games where you correctly townread her please?

Just to have peace of mind you are not faking this (even though I don't believe you are).
Yes

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/39434

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/40542

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/39680

I just skimmed Rem's ISO in those games (as well as another one - was hoping to find a scum game from them, but alas, didn't).

The first two games you quote above, Rem is night/day here. The first page of their ISO has significantly more content than they've generated all game here. Like way more - lots of reads, lots of nuance. Some fluff thrown in between, but it is not "mostly fluff".

The third game Rem was fully trolling. Their first ISO was mostly just posting random numbers and then votes. Nothing else. Zero content, zero fluff. Eventually they posted a few things once they became a wagon.

Sorry, not sorry. Rem does not look anything like those games. I don't care if you disagree Zenon, but Rem looks nothing like their town game, and I'm not going to just trust you when most of what you've said as to why you read them as town I believe is NAI (and some of it wolfy).

@Rem can you provide me with links to your last two scum games when you get a chance?

@Zenon You mentioned Rem had reads, and Guillo asked you about those reads, but then you didn't elaborate on that. What reads of Rem have you been looking at? Can you summarize them for me?

Zenon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:39 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:20 pm [VOTE: Epi] aubergine

Rem still needs way more attention as well IMO. Does anyone other than Zenon townread them?
You should listen to me though... really

Can you explain your Rem townread? I will listen to what you say and take it into account.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:35 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:53 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 6:58 pm Like for example im paranoid about Zenon who is voting with me after i voiced a possible association with Epi with her. Questions come into mind such as:

Why is she sheeping me on Epi now?
Is this scum!Zenon trying to distance from Epi?
Or, is this town!Zenon who realized she is being set up by scum!Epi and voted there to kill that association.
Zenon is your teammate who saved you Day 1.

There's your answer.
Lmao

Epi/Guillo is t/t. Discuss.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:32 pm I see we are cross posting and getting to the same idea.

Yes, I am willing to drop my sus on you for now.

I agree about Falcon. There are some things in their ISO that are strong town!Falcon indicators. Little ways that they nitpick things and sharp little pushes here and there that they have a hard time replicating as scum.

I think we need to put pressure in some places that haven't been adequately explored.

How is your read on Wilgy? I am very bad at reading them, and am not a super-fan of their gimmick this game, but would be interested in hearing from people who might be better at reading him (if they exist).

I don't want to vote Guillo, Epi, Falcon or Pyxxy.

@DrWilgy

@Zenon

@Rem

@robyn

I've decided that the frustration I feel in interacting with Epi is actually something I don't remember from times that I spotted him as scum before, and I'm going to trust this for now and say that Epi is spot on that mafia is indeed sipping martinis.

[VOTE: Rem] aubergine

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:23 pm Mafia is sipping martinis poolside.

Wilgy is eating cheese omelets.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:24 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:20 pm [VOTE: Epi] aubergine

Rem still needs way more attention as well IMO. Does anyone other than Zenon townread them?
Still not reading Zenon's posts.

Can you give your thoughts on Rem then?

Nothing about this post is about Zenon, other than the fact that I know their read about Rem.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:22 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:18 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:48 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:08 pm
Rem wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:07 pm If guillo flips town we kill epi

Simple
Yah? Why?

Why can't I be town who is wrong about Epi?
You are discrediting your own view of me.

Rem said if Guillo gets lynched and is a civilian, everybody should shank my ass.

Your reaction was immediately one of defensiveness: "Why can't I be town who is wrong about Epi?"

Nothing Rem said warranted this response.

You are alive and calling for my head. If you are good, and you get lynched, wouldn't you want my head on a plate come Day 3?

I tried thinking maybe you misread, but you responded again to the same post:

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:09 pm
Rem wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:07 pm If guillo flips town we kill epi

Simple
This is exactly the kind of dichotomies I don't want town to fall for.

-1 point for Rem
Am I mafia or am I not?
Nah, what Guillo did is towny AF.

Having a read is not the same as wanting people to blindly sheep said read, and being wary that you could be wrong and that people could try to use your corpse to push that wrong read for nefarious purposes is very townie. Extremely hard progression to fake.

Guillo is town here.
If you genuinely believe that, and I'm wrong about Guillotine (which would suck, because I liked that case the most), then we're doing all the work trying to murder each other.

I still think you have a good shot at flipping mafia, and I don't like this post because it presupposes you aren't mafia (which actually mafia do more than town IMO), but also...

Have you heard about Rem?

[VOTE: Epi] aubergine

Rem still needs way more attention as well IMO. Does anyone other than Zenon townread them?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:48 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:08 pm
Rem wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:07 pm If guillo flips town we kill epi

Simple
Yah? Why?

Why can't I be town who is wrong about Epi?
You are discrediting your own view of me.

Rem said if Guillo gets lynched and is a civilian, everybody should shank my ass.

Your reaction was immediately one of defensiveness: "Why can't I be town who is wrong about Epi?"

Nothing Rem said warranted this response.

You are alive and calling for my head. If you are good, and you get lynched, wouldn't you want my head on a plate come Day 3?

I tried thinking maybe you misread, but you responded again to the same post:

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:09 pm
Rem wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:07 pm If guillo flips town we kill epi

Simple
This is exactly the kind of dichotomies I don't want town to fall for.

-1 point for Rem
Am I mafia or am I not?

Nah, what Guillo did is towny AF.

Having a read is not the same as wanting people to blindly sheep said read, and being wary that you could be wrong and that people could try to use your corpse to push that wrong read for nefarious purposes is very townie. Extremely hard progression to fake.

Guillo is town here.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 6:20 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 6:10 pm @pyxxy Tell me why you think Epi and Rem are town.
don't have reads on them

next question

Why would you compare me bagging 2 wolves in my bottom four from last game, and saying here I didn't do that here?

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 6:18 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 6:06 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:38 pm maybe I'll have to wait for Seanzie to answer my Epi question
Presumably you mean this one, which wasn't addressed to anyone, but it seems now you want me to answer it? Sure.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:30 pm Q:

is there a "typical" Epi playstyle

and if yes, does this game match it
No, not really, but I feel like I've had a good read on him. Since my time on TS, Epi is not someone who played a lot (recently he seems to be playing a lot more though), so I've probably only played 4-5 games from him. Our first game together was my first game on the site and he was a wolf and came for me hard, and I fought back and we ended up winning handedly after a 1-shot cop eventually confirmed that me/him was not t/t, but that i was indeed right on Epi. Our second game was a game where Epi was fully roleplaying as the main character from Fallout 2, posting only in pipboy notes. He was town and heavily suspected me. I was town (repped in on like D3 after 2 other people were in my slot) and didn't find him, but didn't sus him hard (iirc) prior to his death. We wolfed together once (and won handedly - partially by doing quite a bit of theatre). There was a game recently that he was scum and I called him out for it and got D1'd (him and Delta went on to win), and those are all the games I can remember that him and I played together. There isn't a specific pattern to how he plays (no "typical" playstyle), but I feel reasonably good about my ability to read him.

Why are you asking about if Epi has a "typical" playstyle with no mention of alignments?
why does me not mentioning alignments mean jack shit here

You don't care if Epi looks like his typical wolf self vs typical town self?

@pyxxy Tell me why you think Epi and Rem are town.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:52 pm @Seanzie I know this is from another game and you were wolfing there but

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:56 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:41 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:40 pm Nah, Porscha's town.
why
I have a secret tell on Porscha that hasn't been wrong yet, even before she broke out of her volume-tell issue. I'd rather not say what it is because I've been able to catch her off like 3 posts a few times, and I can usually find her town very quickly when she is town.
is this actually true or were u wolfing

Both.

It is true that I have a tell on Porscha that hasn't been wrong since I thought of it (not gonna say it's infallible - and I'd forget about it in a FX situation, but it has led to some pretty quick reads on her that thus far have been accurate), and there were things in her ISO at that point that if I was town, I would have pushed her for. Instead, as a wolf, I pretended like those things weren't there, and used it to shield her.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:50 pm oh the metaphor is https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/earned+his+stripes

Seanzie is saying "nah I'm right, you're scum, and when you flipped I'll be vindicated/look good/earn a towncore for it"

Question is: Do you believe I believed it or not?

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:38 pm maybe I'll have to wait for Seanzie to answer my Epi question

Presumably you mean this one, which wasn't addressed to anyone, but it seems now you want me to answer it? Sure.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:30 pm Q:

is there a "typical" Epi playstyle

and if yes, does this game match it

No, not really, but I feel like I've had a good read on him. Since my time on TS, Epi is not someone who played a lot (recently he seems to be playing a lot more though), so I've probably only played 4-5 games from him. Our first game together was my first game on the site and he was a wolf and came for me hard, and I fought back and we ended up winning handedly after a 1-shot cop eventually confirmed that me/him was not t/t, but that i was indeed right on Epi. Our second game was a game where Epi was fully roleplaying as the main character from Fallout 2, posting only in pipboy notes. He was town and heavily suspected me. I was town (repped in on like D3 after 2 other people were in my slot) and didn't find him, but didn't sus him hard (iirc) prior to his death. We wolfed together once (and won handedly - partially by doing quite a bit of theatre). There was a game recently that he was scum and I called him out for it and got D1'd (him and Delta went on to win), and those are all the games I can remember that him and I played together. There isn't a specific pattern to how he plays (no "typical" playstyle), but I feel reasonably good about my ability to read him.

Why are you asking about if Epi has a "typical" playstyle with no mention of alignments?

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 2:30 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:43 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 11:07 pm The Seanzie Challenge: Go through Seanzie's posts and find one (1) instance in which Seanzie asked me a question that wasn't issuing a busywork assignment or following up on a busywork assignment.
I've already explained why I asked Epi about Zenon's ISO. He deflects by calling it busywork, but it was not.

Go into Epi's ISO and ctrl+f "Sean". He is wolf and his push on me is clear wolf.

He votes me. Asks Tutuu why Tutuu is voting me. He finally gives a reason for voting me (because I had 3 posts and "If I can keep up with the thread, Sean can" Nah... everyone's life is different, this is BS, especially since he was seeing me wolf in a game where I was clearly active and engaged, so me not posting is wolfy? No.) Says I'm not good in another post but prefers Zenon. Says I looked at the thread and said "fuck this" (not true?). I then ask him to go through Zenon's posts and quote four of them with content (this is after seeing Epi claim Zenon had no content and was just posting fluff. Zenon posts a lot of fluff, but anyone who is actually giving her slot a fair shake can look through and easily find at least four posts of content, so this is a good exercise to see if Epi is actually giving Zenon a fair shake, or if Epi is pushing for miselims). Epi refuses. Epi continues to refuse, @ing falcon for some reason? I ask specifically if Epi was refusing or saying that Zenon had no content, and Epi says he is hosting a 16 year old's birthday party (likely true, but he is spending plenty of time in the thread at this point, so I don't see that as a valid reason since skimming an ISO to see if someone has 4 posts of content does not take more than a few minutes). He then votes me. I point out that he's spent way more lip service on avoiding doing it than doing it, and he continues to refuse. votes me again (btw, any time he has voted me, he hasn't given any reasons why, he just does it... unless you count the 3 post thing?). Now he is trying to push this as me giving him busywork, and saying that is wolfy. He then calls me a wolf without any explanation.

I asked Epi a rather simple question, and he refused to answer. It wasn't busywork, it was a useful tool to figure out why Epi was saying something that I don't think fit reality. He refused, continually. You can fault me for continuing to push here, but the one who is stopping fruitful discussion between us is EPI.

Epi's reasons to vote me

1. I had 3 posts at one point during D1, and

2. He claims what I asked him to do was busywork, without ever trying to engage with what I asked or consider the benefits of it.

Dude's bad.
Hmmm you know, i had an opposite thought about Epi's Zenon handling.

You say Epi is trying to push a misexe but if you read his ISO, he has had every reason to stay on Zenon but has ended up pivoting to other slots such as Cape90 and now you.

I think if anything scum!Epi could be distancing from scum!Zenon here but not strong enough to make it a bus. This could explain why Epi is reluctant to do the exercise with you and explain his suspicion on Zenon.

Sure, that is a possibility. Either way Epi should be flipped.

[VOTE: Pyxxy] aubergine

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:04 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:38 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:30 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:26 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:20 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:11 am I would also vote Rem or Pyxxy (even though I'd like to hear from Pyxxy before I put all my eggs in that basket).
You wanna hear from the most uncooperative player even worse than Rem?

Check their ISO, dont you think that deserves a vote?
Who is "their"?
Pixxy’s
Pyxxy is being obscure, but not directly uncooperative. Outright refusing to address questions like Rem and Epi are doing is different than just being obscure.

however, Pyxxy is pretty much perma-PoE for their ISO.

Also, would you mind making an effort to spell their name right?
It's a short name but very hard to learn.

If they are perma-PoEd why do you wanna leave them for later then?

Cause that is the exactly the kind of slot that scum wanna leave for an F3 situation.

Yeah... that isn't what I said.

From your own analysis, the only way I'm scum here is with Pyxxy, so this makes little sense. Also, something being wolf-compatible does not mean it is wolfy.

Perma-PoE was a bit too bombastic though. I think it is possible (but unlikely) that Pyxxy could do things that could remove them from the PoE. I'd also like to hear more from Pyxxy to decide if they should be higher/lower in the PoE, and to give us more content post-Pyxxy flip. And finally (and probably most importantly), people who are PoE do not come before people who are active wolf reads.

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