The Syndicate

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:36 am Marmot was probably the easiest wolf there was and the other six may be doing slightly better

Yeah but he doesn’t strike me as someone who would potato if he randed wolf in a wim heavy scum team, burden of not wanting to let the team down etc etc

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:37 am What you all think about NotAnAxehole?

Idm a vig shooting there, haven’t noticed anything towny from him

I sorta stopped reading Linear a while back, seems like they’re always gonna die sooner or
Later no matter what so no real point in expending effort sorting a dead slot.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:45 am illario assuming your theory is correct how does that line up with me being a boxed in wolf exactly?

Idk I just didn’t like how you instantly assumed my thought process was wolfy instead of wanting to understand where I was coming from. Felt like you wanted more to discredit me than actually evaluate me

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:47 am discredit your perspective that the mafia are potatoes and town are dominating? sounds like bullshit you're just making up on the fly

Why do you think I would make that up lmao

Because I have more confident trs than you

All ur trs are the same ones I had after like 5 posts from each respective slot, Dw if ur town You’ll eventually get there on my other trs too

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:52 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:49 am
Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:47 am discredit your perspective that the mafia are potatoes and town are dominating? sounds like bullshit you're just making up on the fly
Why do you think I would make that up lmao
youre asking me to explain why you would make up an explanation to my question?

rather self explanatory.

No I’m asking why would I possibly bother to make up a post saying game feels easy as a wolf? It doesn’t benefit me in any way. At best the comment should be nai

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:14 am Alexa
C4
112
Creature
Alison
Nutella
Ender
Hk
Seanzie
Belzybub

This list is probably pure

Honorable mentions: dizzy

this was the list mac, then i added dya when they started posting more. one or two others also got added somewhere later in my iso.

The honorable mention part was just me memeing at dizzy

Ender I explained when alison asked I’ll pull up the post

Belzybub feels really pure. I don’t read them as w/w with dizzy. So either they’re v/v or v/w. If dizzy is a wolf they spewed belzy town, if dizzy is town then their read on belzy is probably correct and also if dizzy was town and belzy was a wolf they would just accept dizzys tr on them instead of busting his balls as much as he has done throughout the game.

Seanzies approach to you felt really towny. His interactions and questioning of me earlier felt good too. Seen him as a wolf and he did almost no solving and was a potato.

Hk is just meta and tone.

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:49 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:46 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:45 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:43 am
nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:39 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:36 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:35 am Remember when I was like "Creature has spent all these posts being useless, let's vote him out", and everyone was like "noooo you can't Creature is useless every game!"

Now Ender is useless. And he is a solving machine when he is townie. Do the math.
The funny part is where you've been wolf with me and I've acted my solving out.

I'm not going to lie, though, my effort this game has been very low and mostly for trolling. I'm not even mad if y'all vote me.

Just pay attention to my reads aye?
Reads such as?
You town.

Alexa kinda wolfy.

Linear .4 wolfy.

Pao wolfy if Alexa is town.

Mac town.

Alison not knowing how to read people having fun.

HK town.

Seanzie in a "IDK" land

ilario kinda scummy. Also kinda towny tho.

Dizzy wolfy (I didn't say this but I thought it.)

Marmot scummy.

Sabie town.

TSP wolfish.
lol this is towny even if i disagree with alot of it
What is townie about it?
Very unique perspective to the game. Completely wild
Reads list like these are pretty towny this early on because mafia don’t wanna commit to too many wtf reads and then risky getting outed when they’re asked to justify them but have nothing to say.
Also there has never been a single game where I’ve been town and tr’ing Alexa and the first person to wolfread us both is scum. It’s always a townie who does that, who is overeager in trying to catch us. Now that this read is out of the bag I will never give anyone else towncred for it in the future.

this was the ender read

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:09 am I'm looking at this vote spread and again it makes illario's perspective that the game is an easy solve look like bullshit

theres one obv deepwolf in the game im waiting for someone to kill and then when they do itll be easy

Well obvious to me, but still deep cos everyone else is tr’ing them for nebulous and bad reasons

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:22 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:22 am Well obvious to me, but still deep cos everyone else is tr’ing them for nebulous and bad reasons
who is it? the suspense is killing me?

Can’t rn, I don’t have the wim or pull to bury them atm. All it does is paint a target on my back for maf to NK

Belzyboo ur the only true family to me

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:15 am Sloonei is LHF right now. Fairly null w.r.t. Mac's alignment. Though if I'm confbiasing I guess I'd expect town Mac to go after bigger fish than a low-presence Sloonei.

I lean Sloonei town but am out of time at the moment to explain why, and it's not a very strong read.

Why do you expect him to go after bigger fish? Also, isn’t he going after more than one person so he can still be doing that?

Oh u said town mac, nvm I misread that

112 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:23 am list arranged by tier with highest in a given tier being towniest of that group. notes provided on some but not all players.

Lock town, never look back:
112

Town read:
Belzy - my highest townread; albeit i have reservations even here i think this is a pretty solidly town slot: insights are original, seems to have conviction in stated reads and is approaching the game in a very problem-solvey way indicative of village alignment
Seanzie - i was wrong
ilario - similar to Belzy.,. also has many times throughout the game submitted several posts in succession, sometimes carrying a chain of thought--something wolves are less likely to do or otherwise tend to have trouble doing. substantive contributions.
c4 - here because people are talking about him like he's lock town and i don't have any reason to really scumread him

town lean:
nutella
alexa - people say she's a strong wolf, i think probably still town. i will, however, keep my eyes peeled
hallowkat - less sure than i was upon initial gut because i've seen some shade thrown his way and i seem to be influenced by it to a degree but still reasonably confident here
falcon - i'm not sure, but he's my strongest read from the CDC crew still in the game. has been trending up in play over the past year or two- not convinced this is his scum game, though
LinearPoint - if there's a read i'm going to get bit on it's this one, - roleplaying plays on my psychology, - but probs town

neutral
Paopan - don't like the slot enough to bump it up yet but not much negative to say here at present
Master R. - i liked the first things i read from him but have gotten some bad vibes here-and-there. he townleaned(read?) me but then retracted when i decided to add too much to a post and he didn't like it. i'll admit it was kind of a silly add-on from me at the time, but i'm not sure he'd be so antsy about it unless he was trying to gain towncred as a wolf? gun-to-my-head town at this point but i'm going to be sussing the slot out hard over the next while
Alison
dyachei
Creature - i liked him at first and do admit he was sharing thoughts early-game that i was having without me even expressing them. seems to be really conservative though and i'm not a huge fan
Phil and Gloria - trending up, trending down, lost in the abyss of 112's reads rn

maf lean:
sabie12 - not much to say here as her post quantity is rather low, which i don't want to criticize her for. but there's stuff i don't like in what is a small sample
EnderWiggin - i'm thinking he may have been caught and just doubled-down with the openwolfing in an attempt to get out of yeet candidacy?
Guillotine

mafia lean but also read:
Dizzy and Bo

null/haven't seen enough or anything of
urist
axe!
Wilgy, MD
Justplayingitcool
sig
Porscha
sloon
TonyStarkPrime

too many nulls but honestly i haven't been able to catch the posters listed there enough

where i'm at, hope it sparks someone's wandering genius

I like this guy

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:30 am
Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:18 am Here's a bit of a readslist

112 - Nullish. If I had to GTH I'd say town mostly because I get the feeling if 112 was wolfing in this game they'd be probably just slanking and pushing pro wolf agenda but in the moments they've been playing there has been at least some thoughtfulness apparent.
alexa - Not out of her wolfrange. If there is any reason that she's town it's probably that there has been a sense of everyone trying to appeal to her and appease her which is probably some form of "tHrEaDsPeWeD" maybe. The early game nutella role shit means nothing to me at all. The way she has been avoiding handling me feels weird for specifically her.
Alison - I am just going to townread her for the rest of this day and probably the next day. She has mostly been fine and if she stops being fine I will probably notice.
Belzy - Probably town. All they've done is question people and the questions seem to be coming from a place of trying to fill gaps in their analysis and not just pointless stay busy ones.
BoKnows - Haven't really seen anything from BK here but I'll say lean wolf because of KZA death and MR saying they are voteable.
c4 - One of the more towny players in this game. I have a healthy respect for their wolf play so I am not going to say anything dumb like lack claire but they'd have to get pretty bad for me to care about pushing them.
Creature - Just feels like normal Creature. I probably need to read a recent Creature wolf game or something though because normal Creature isn't exactly difficult for a mafia Creature to replicate. @nutella can you talk to me about Creature please?
DrWilgy - I have no read. If anyone does, I'd love to talk about Wilgy. Will skim this ISO after this post.
dyachei - Shot a wolf so we just call this town I guess.
Dyslexicon - Not vibing. Wolf read.
Ender - I thought Ender was quite towny at first but then they did that thing where they were just derpy and wolfy so unless Ender tells me they were drunk I'm gonna POE this slot (and I might anyway).
falcon - Not hitting the town falcon notes I'm used to and I am a pretty godly Falcon reader. I will review this ISO though because I've probably missed most of their content.
guillo - Hmm I actually kinda suspect Guillo now that I'm forced to think about it lol. There is like the town guillo in moments but it's lacking the authenticity maybe? I dunno, no matter how I articulate this it kinda comes out weird. Sus. POE why not.
Hollowkatt - I want to scumread HK for some things but in retrospect the times I've been in the thread with HK has felt like normal HK and not bs HK so imma town lean em.
Ilario - Not vibing their play at all. Makes sense as wolf with Alexa. (granted I just watched them from the host position so I might just be tinfoiling).
JPIC - No read. Need to ISO.
Linear - For the most part I've felt like they were just a wolf, which probably means they are. But there was a moment earlier I can't remember exactly the context but I had this sense that LP was being shielded by wolves as town. I should ignore this instinct lol.
MR - I am conflicted and want more data. They are POE right now for reasons that aren't really about their play and I should probably stop omgussing them.
Axe - I feel like the only way I am going to arrive at any kind of confident read on Axe is when Linear flips. Red = town Axe, Green = maybe not town Axe but also maybe still. So actually only if Linear flips red lol.
Nutella - Just town lol.
Paopan - POE but I am reserving the right to change this on a moments notice.
Porscha - Need to read the Sloonei/c4 things tbh.
sabie12 - POE. Read their ISO earlier and didn't get the inno child Sabie vibes.
Seanzie - I have no reason to scumread Seanzie aside from that he's annoying lol. I think he's just town.
sig - Lock mafia.
Sloonei - Imma level with y'all I am mostly trying to get Sloonei to do things and don't have a very strong read on him at all. He's capable of what he's doing as town and most of my read is just made up lol.
TSP - I actually can't read TSP tbh. I want to scumread him but the deeper I get into this readslist the more I think I am just shit at mafia.
Urist - As the greatest Urist reader alive, I say town.
Sleep - Lack claire.
Town

c4
belzy
alison
nutella
dyachei
seanzie
urist

lean town

112
alexa
creature
hollowkatt

null null

wilgy
jpic
axe
porscha
sig
sloonei

poe

bo
dizzy
ender
falcon
guillo
illario
linear
mr
paopan
sabie
tsp

my poe way too big... someone/s tell me who I am obviously wrong on please

10/11 of ur townlist is exactly in my list i outed a whole day earlier, i really dont get how u can claim ur not vibing with me when ur list is a c/p of mine lol

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:33 am Does anyone town read me? lol. It's like someone says a read on me, and then everyone has that read. It pretty much happens every game. If the game has enough of the right people in it, the read will be scum. It's very predictable. Not to be all boss bitch, but I haven't lost a game I was mafia in for years. And now everyone thinks they know how to read me and how I work. Oh yes, must be obvious scum. I mean, it's fine. But if I'm right about my strongest town reads and they scum read me back, maybe remember that for next game this time? Thanks for coming to my self pity ted talk.

i think u had towny posts and part of me does think scum you is less likely to be this heavily fossed on d1.

Belzy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:01 am If we have to ... between Wilg Porscha Bo ... then shoot Wilg gth

idm any of them being shot

[VOTE: guillo] aubergine

Belzy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:20 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:15 am
Belzy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:01 am If we have to ... between Wilg Porscha Bo ... then shoot Wilg gth
idm any of them being shot
It can really help town's chances to at least try not to put literally every lhf on the kill list just for being lhf. Even if we can reasons for one lhf to be more likely town than scum, it is a gain.

You’re definitely correct and if I was feeling more tryhardy I would go and iso them myself to see if there’s any semblance of towniness in there, though I’m feeling lazy and want to close my eyes and act like my towncore is solid which saves me the hassle of having to re-evaluate any time too soon

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:04 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:02 pm That was glaringly fake

Not to shit talk but that was glaringly fake and I thought you were just trying to scare Axe into shutting up so I didn't interfere
okay so you ARE a wolf with tmi, cool

@ilario yeah, i figured it out o/\o

whats the ping? i havent read anything other than seeing ali and bo died

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:28 pm @ilario where is your head at with the game rn?

idk i just opened the thread,
why am i a wagon?

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:04 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:04 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:28 pm @ilario where is your head at with the game rn?
idk i just opened the thread,
why am i a wagon?
nice timing

idk tbh

Why aren’t u defending me?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:10 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:04 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:28 pm @ilario where is your head at with the game rn?
idk i just opened the thread,
why am i a wagon?
is that your first thought?

Yes. Why is that even a question ?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:26 pm Why would that be your first thought?

I’m gonna ignore this because it’s a pretty dumb question to ask. I’m disappointed in you if you’re town lol

Now I’m gonna get fossed by 3-4 level 0 players claiming that post was ate when it’s not

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:27 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:25 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:04 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:04 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:28 pm @ilario where is your head at with the game rn?
idk i just opened the thread,
why am i a wagon?
nice timing

idk tbh
Why aren’t u defending me?
because i need to be sure

What makes you unsure

Ngl Alexa that response was very scummy there’s no reason for you to be unsure here and town you would know it’s important to keep me alive

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:33 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:31 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:27 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:25 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:04 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:04 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:28 pm @ilario where is your head at with the game rn?
idk i just opened the thread,
why am i a wagon?
nice timing

idk tbh
Why aren’t u defending me?
because i need to be sure
What makes you unsure
because you haven't been posting at all/invested in the same way i usually see from you as V

Lmao are u scum because that reason is very pingu and u know I’m busy irl ever since uni started

And yeah I’m not invested but my reads were still better than everyone else’s lmao, so yeah why would u not keep me alive for that reason alone

Because I’m a wagon when I shouldn’t be

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:37 pm Ilario I'm not digging your dig into Alexa for their take atm. Bold take for you to say you've had better redlands than anyone else and should therefore be town when you have 5 votes on you. Why arent you questioning the 5 players who have votes on you instead of alexa

Because voting me doesn’t make them mafia. Alexa doing nothing does make her mafia esp since her reasons this last page are so scummy

And also because I had confident trs on creature c4 and a light one on tsp so I’m not all that interested in my wagon

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:39 pm ok unvote ilario please he is town but seriously wtf

@Phil and Gloria
@TonyStarkPrime
@Paopan
@Creature
@c4e5g3d5

Why am I town now

Alexa is so pingy these last two pages

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:39 pm ilario has learned the “all of my reads are OMGUS” strategy I see

U should read my posts lol

Nothing here makes sense

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:40 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:39 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:39 pm ok unvote ilario please he is town but seriously wtf

@Phil and Gloria
@TonyStarkPrime
@Paopan
@Creature
@c4e5g3d5
Why am I town now
because i don't think you would wild out at me in response to you being a wagon (when it was literally not because of me) as scum/you would consider that low

I think I’m a wagon for two reasons. Tinfoil which I can’t control and because I voted naa, but I only voted him because I had no idea what was going on, opened the game and saw u tunneling him so I voted with you. When I actually read over night he was obv town. So yeah the second part does relate to you imo

tsp i looked at ur votes and they seem 0/4, whats ur rationale behind all of them

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:56 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:54 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:40 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:39 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:39 pm ok unvote ilario please he is town but seriously wtf

@Phil and Gloria
@TonyStarkPrime
@Paopan
@Creature
@c4e5g3d5
Why am I town now
because i don't think you would wild out at me in response to you being a wagon (when it was literally not because of me) as scum/you would consider that low
I think I’m a wagon for two reasons. Tinfoil which I can’t control and because I voted naa, but I only voted him because I had no idea what was going on, opened the game and saw u tunneling him so I voted with you. When I actually read over night he was obv town. So yeah the second part does relate to you imo
i voted NAA because he hard claimed a red on Alison, thus causing me to have to shoot her when she was my top townread. how TF was i to know he had that role

sonrio.

im not gonna expose what this means to others incase ur town and it just adds tinfoil onto you, but you should defs know what this means, and i wanna know why u didnt consider that.

But you should know from that game that the role can possibly exist, why not wait a bit? Why not give alison 10 mins to out her legacy? I have no issues with you wanting her shot but why rush it?

She said she supported the shot after u shot her not before.

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:04 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:22 pm I'll mark my read on Porsche as confused towny.
> convenient way to dismiss me after I just caught you in a lie. Did you find 2 mafia when only 1 flipped and then find none because you "werent playing" when marmot die or what

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:39 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:38 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:37 pm Ilario I'm not digging your dig into Alexa for their take atm. Bold take for you to say you've had better redlands than anyone else and should therefore be town when you have 5 votes on you. Why arent you questioning the 5 players who have votes on you instead of alexa
Because voting me doesn’t make them mafia. Alexa doing nothing does make her mafia esp since her reasons this last page are so scummy
how was it scummy? because i expressed a shred of doubt on you?

>yeah I still cannot wrap my head around ilario having a heart attack for being tied for 3rd place in votes and getting mad at alexa for it instead of convincing the 5 people voting for them that they shouldnt. Alexa isnt your keeper dude. It doesnt make alexa come off as scummy to anyone but you. I'd like to believe your outlandish reaction outs you as town but honestly I'm so put off by the entire interaction that im having a hard time pegging you as town and not just a panicked 3rd party or mafia who is ready to peg alexa as scum to get the scent off of you.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:46 pm anyone played Pokemon Legends: Arceus yet? Is it worth playing?
Yes. I have had a ton of fun playing it and its worth

She has thread pull and is not using it for good. That’s reason enough, Idc whether you vibe with it or not

And all her answers to me feel half hearted rn

ur the one being sus of me last two games

ur scumsiding twice, i have reason to be wary, whilst ive townsided.

name one thing uve done to help town this game?

but yeah nah i have no reason to be wary lol.

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:13 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:11 pm name one thing uve done to help town this game?

but yeah nah i have no reason to be wary lol.
name one thing you've done? if you've had 100% correct reads since day 1, what have you actually done to help town?

i defended a lot of villagers at EOD and tried to use my gun in the most pro-town way possible, what happened was not remotely my fault

not be antitown

form a tr list that was very pure, including people like sean and ender who people pushed for bad reasons

ur gun wasnt pro-town, nobody says it was so stop saying that. also alison didnt ask u to shoot her, she said it was mech correct but didnt ask for the shot. you rushed it and still havent explained why and part of me thinks its to stop alison from outing a legacy.

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:15 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:10 pm ur the one being sus of me last two games

ur scumsiding twice, i have reason to be wary, whilst ive townsided.
how am i scumsiding? also you saying this is just low tbh regardless of your alignment

ur doming me, i will say that about anyone regardless that domes me.

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:17 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:15 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:13 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:11 pm name one thing uve done to help town this game?

but yeah nah i have no reason to be wary lol.
name one thing you've done? if you've had 100% correct reads since day 1, what have you actually done to help town?

i defended a lot of villagers at EOD and tried to use my gun in the most pro-town way possible, what happened was not remotely my fault
not be antitown

form a tr list that was very pure, including people like sean and ender who people pushed for bad reasons

ur gun wasnt pro-town, nobody says it was so stop saying that. also alison didnt ask u to shoot her, she said it was mech correct but didnt ask for the shot. you rushed it and still havent explained why and part of me thinks its to stop alison from outing a legacy.
I LITERALLY TR ENDER AND ARGUED AGAINST SEANZIE WAGON EOD< WHAT TJE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

wtf why would i care about stopping alison outing a legacy, she tr me, if she asked to out a legacy i would, i had waited to shoot for so long so i shot her bc i wanted there to be time for the flip --> EOD and honestly i thought what NAA claimed would mean she'd flip scum and analyzing spew and such would be important

What’s ur read on dizzy Mac porcha

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