The Syndicate

@ilario want to look at this Wiml wolf game with me for comparisons?
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ame-Thread

i assume that's what he means but i don't understand why it was villagery

ugh i think fedex lost my package

I don't even know what the gambit was

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Named-18er

thoughts on this BK scumgame? i'm going to run to the store but i'll look at it when im back because iirc he had people fooled for awhile

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:23 am @EnderWiggin

Turbo games aren't exactly the games to go off of because they kinda suck.

If you want town meta, go through Shakespeare Maf (this game is a lot closer to that) or Reflections from the Mountaintop.

If you want maf meta, you already went through the 1 mafia game I won (I've lost the others ) and 18er is the other.

This game I've been pulled into defending Alexa incredibly hard, which believe it or not takes way too much energy out of me and I lose game state awareness.
Shakespeare were 3 hour days where I had to hard defend Alexa for like, the first 2 hours, then EOD, or at least the last 10 minutes, came and I'd be clueless on who to vote.

That's kinda the issue this game which I kinda need to learn from but yeah.

try to focus outside of defending me it's fine brad

Okay one of the mafia games you linked was a turbo though lmao

it doesn't work for me either

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

and by response I don't mean I expect him to go on a tilt because I know he's trying to be better and that shouldn't be expected of anyone

I essentially mean i'll find clarity in how he treats scumhunting for the rest of the day

the LC pressure is fine with me. I'm not sure I fully agree with it yet but I think his response will make his alignment clear.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:54 am OKAY SO:

Lime Coke as Blue Kang:

GAME 1:
Lime's Light Matrix 13er: (TOWN)
God townread on Alexa > Defends hard
#139 - Solvy post where he outs reasons on a non-Alexa (LDies - Susses him for reasons that aren't related to going after Alexa)
#234 - Reads Dota town and outlines the thought process. This is in line with the town meta I think I have for LC
I'm going to ignore the aggro in this game as LC has explicitly said they're trying to tone that part down.

GAME 2:
Deck Mafia #002: (TOWN)
#151 slightly solvy on Appel not at the same level.
#164 More of what I expect out of town!LC, solid thought process explained
#298 Directly interacts with Wiml and bounces reads off him, explains his thought process again
#347 Is a bit weaker in terms of explanation but still an attempt to outline thought process.
#361 More explanation again

I'm going to skip lmao is scum.

GAME 3:
Insomnia can't rand noob Vig 10er: (MAFIA)
No real outing of reads thought process.
#106 where he outs townreads without much thought process added.
This feels like kinda a bad game, lemme look for another.

GAME 4:
Arts and Crafts: (MAFIA)
#37 and #38 actually involve attempts to explain the process of how he reaches the reads
Hmmmm
This game actually has some of what I was considering townier of BK. Though it's not as forceful and LC tries to be diplomatic a lot (#517 trying to avoid clashes)

@EnderWiggin i'm a bit confused on what the conclusion is from this --> this game

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:54 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:53 am Mac I haven't even been on you for this whole day though? I told you in the beginning of the day not to self vote if you're town and that I wanted to kill a wolf, and then when I voted someone else you called that wolfy because killing you was "pro-town"
You told me that and then used the fact that I followed your instructions to scumread me about 9 minutes ago.

you can explain to me that your vote on LC was not opportunistic without insulting me. if you explained it then i would say "ah okay Mac, I missed where you were pushing on him all day" (which is very reasonable considering i back-read from my phone half-asleep and i miss things). i'm not taking every line you say and dumpstering on you for it

Mac I haven't even been on you for this whole day though? I told you in the beginning of the day not to self vote if you're town and that I wanted to kill a wolf, and then when I voted someone else you called that wolfy because killing you was "pro-town"

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:47 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:45 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:44 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:43 am yeah whatever i still feel like the way people treat me and talk to me specifically in these games is so rude, like it feels like i am a specific target for aggression needlessly when i don't even do anythung
you really need to listen to what people tell you about how you make them feel alexa
i literally do listen to this and that's why i've been working hard to improve but i don't see how i've tunneled at all this game.
it is fine to be this way if you understand and come to terms with the fact there are a lot of people who will lose their cool at you in the heat of the moment and it doesn't make them bad people.

i feel like i'm being gaslit

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:45 am You tilted me hard and gave no fucks. I tried to reason you through it and console you when you were stressed and you kicked sand in my face. You keep just telling me my perspective on how I feel is wrong. And now you are taking the high road and making me out to be mean.

what did i say that tilted you so much

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:45 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:41 am
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:39 am Also the fact that mac is making such a big fuss still that people fos him even though he’s never going over today just means he’s moreso upset that people are misreading him than he is about being misyeeted, which is >rand town
why do you think he's never going over today?
i dont think theres enough actual traction to get him yeeted today, it goes back to why he wasnt yeeted d1, he has enough clout that even though people are wary of him i dont think people would ever actually yeet him unless they were very sure hes mafia.

its like this alexa, imagine we're back in the em servers, say spf is being fossed d1/d2, she still never gets yeeted 9/10 games that early.

also, because, i think hes town lol.

meh
who do you want to yeet?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:44 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:43 am yeah whatever i still feel like the way people treat me and talk to me specifically in these games is so rude, like it feels like i am a specific target for aggression needlessly when i don't even do anythung
you really need to listen to what people tell you about how you make them feel alexa

i literally do listen to this and that's why i've been working hard to improve but i don't see how i've tunneled at all this game.

yeah whatever i still feel like the way people treat me and talk to me specifically in these games is so rude, like it feels like i am a specific target for aggression needlessly when i don't even do anythung

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:39 am Also the fact that mac is making such a big fuss still that people fos him even though he’s never going over today just means he’s moreso upset that people are misreading him than he is about being misyeeted, which is >rand town

why do you think he's never going over today?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:33 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:31 am bruh fosing someone is not tunneling them i'm sick of people using tunneling wrong and trying to use it against me it's like.. this is a game of mafia. scumreading is not the same as tunneling
You are definition tunneling. You suspect me every time I blink near you for everything I do. A lot of which I could easily debunk but you don't listen to what I am saying. You have given me no room to breathe and scarcely asked for my opinion or perspective since the minute the day began. I'm sorry but you are tunneling me and badly

1. this is factually untrue if you read through my iso

2. how is this your perspective when you started the day expecting/advocating for your own death

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:32 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:01 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:17 am wiml why do you think Mac is a wolf
Because he's pushing takes he obviously doesn't believe in (notably him being threadspewed town - from my experience pushing it myself in Scythe I just don't think anybody who pushes that take in a situation like this actually believes in it lol and him townlocking me for weird reasons as well). All of his substantial pushes up until the point where he was firmly a candidate for dying today have been on obvious or flipped towns.

He's also making posts that are clearly just for the sake of being townread by the people who don't know him well (particularly that stream of consciousness-esque wall that really has no purpose existing and I know Mac can easily replicate as a wolf because even I could so it literally has no reason to exist besides looking superficially towny to people who don't know him as well). I remember him doing stiff like this a lot D1 as well (and remember Alison correctly shutting down bad townreads on Mac for similar things throughout D1).

There's a reason illario/alexa aren't actively pushing for Mac any more and it's this. He's making posts that I honestly see no other purpose to besides this.

His whole "I need to flip today as town" thing at SoD2 is something I explained earlier but I also really struggle to see coming from him as town.

There are a couple of redeeming things (mostly because I think he had the chance to try to get me flipped at EoD and didn't capitalise it) but that's about it.

This is otoh mind.
tbh the only reason im not pushing him anymore is because i tr him more than i trust alisons sr on him

i already trd him in the game before until alison said i was tr'ing him for wrong reasons. if im wrong then ill take full ownership of the read and if we lose because of it, then the loss is on me.

i'm not sheeping your read on mac or losing for it ilario

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:32 am also it's kinda hypocritical that you said start of day that you HAD to die today and it's pro-town for you to die and are now getting tilted at as vote on you

EBWOP

also it's kinda hypocritical that you said start of day that you HAD to die today and it's pro-town for you to die and are not getting tilted at as vote on you

bruh fosing someone is not tunneling them i'm sick of people using tunneling wrong and trying to use it against me it's like.. this is a game of mafia. scumreading is not the same as tunneling

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:25 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:54 am i think ilario is hard town
i don't townread LC quite as confidently but i'm sponging Esooa/ilario's reads too
uh oh

cos im partly sponging ur reads

meh
he'll IC himself by EOD if he's town, probably

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:24 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:21 am [VOTE: mac] aubergine

the fact that he has 0 votes and LC has 2 still feels off.
so you vote people for reasons like this and then get mad when they disagree. okay.

i think your vote on LC felt opportunistic

i'm asking what prompted you to vote your strongest townread? i'm not sure why you act sassy toward like every question i ask kirsten but it's really frustrating

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:22 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:21 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:20 am if it's lc I kinda want to say the last wolf is just nanook

no reading put into this but I vibe with it
how come your read on lc changes so easily when you were calling him IC
believe it or not I don't tunnel that much and actually have taking about the game all day phase

cool I know

calling someone IC is not tunneling

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:20 am if it's lc I kinda want to say the last wolf is just nanook

no reading put into this but I vibe with it

how come your read on lc changes so easily when you were calling him IC

[VOTE: mac] aubergine

the fact that he has 0 votes and LC has 2 still feels off.

Ender - yes he was BK on MU

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:15 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:13 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:12 am Do you think I should townread you
i don't think you shouldn't
That’s a tsp style response and if multiple people in the same game start giving those a connect 4 game breaks out

lmao

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:13 am @alexa

@ilario

Both of you have played more with LC than myself.

Can you remember in previous town games, does he explain more than just his primary shield? Because that's the impression I get from my experience with him.

his town games are mostly him shielding people then pushing on anyone who FOSes who he shields

which IMO is not far off from this game, it just feels slightly less passionate this game

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:13 am yeah yeah multiple people constantly asking you to stop talking about neo is the exact same as me giving a scum read on wiml

applause

that's not true though? in Reflections specifically neopest was getting the same thread heat Wiml is here strongly, people will actually encouraging the read

you aren't just giving a scum read on Wiml you're literally saying you can't rest until he flips

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:12 am Do you think I should townread you

i don't think you shouldn't

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:12 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:11 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:10 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 am Esooa's is wrongly tunneled and probably actively helping wolves/damaging thread health
just saying this is an extremely extremely wtf thing to say

and it'd be cool if you can not
you've literally said this same thing to me when i've tunneled neopest lol
my posts about wiml are literally nothing comparable

they are but ok

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:10 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 am Esooa's is wrongly tunneled and probably actively helping wolves/damaging thread health
just saying this is an extremely extremely wtf thing to say

and it'd be cool if you can not

you've literally said this same thing to me when i've tunneled neopest lol

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:09 am You asked why I scumread you. This implies that I scumread you.
Why do /you/ think that I scumread you?

..because you're voting me?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:06 am LC ISO:
Spoiler: show

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:42 pm I actually don't have a single read yet.
His first non-fluff is saying he doesn't have reads.

Then:
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:19 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:18 pm Whose gonna be your hard-shield this game LC?
You're voting them.
When questioned he puts this up to start shielding Alexa.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:23 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:20 pm But they were hedgy LC.
That's what's weird I don't really know what there is to hedge yet. Only thing is a townread on me from Mac before she stated that as far as I can see immediately.
Takes my joke super seriously. Sometimes it's a scumtell sometimes not.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:41 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:38 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:21 pm Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.
Everything I do is my town game because I’m town

(I also agree I don’t think I’ve done anything AI yet if someone had a correct read on me it would be surprising or a crapshoot from numbers/probability odds)
Yes, and everyone that is townreading you that's not me has TMI.

I will then tunnel those individuals, and then complain about them once they flip town and take 0 blame.

Then proceed to lead town into an L.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:46 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:41 pm I don’t think he would like not out a read on me/be hesitant to read me if he was wolfing here, to me it sounds like town who is worried I’m wolf/worried he won’t be able to find me since he worries I’m not as obvious town as the previous times I was town (and I can see him wanting to be able to catch me if I’m wolf too) so I feel his approach me makes sense as a villager
This actually kinda hits it on the head and I'm townreading you now because of that explanation.

Spoiler: show
You gotta flip wolf against me eventually, though.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:49 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:47 pm LC is town, I agree.

If I'm wrong on this it'll be obvious by Day 3.
This is...fucking accurate and I've never actually said anything about this.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:49 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:47 pm
Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:08 pmmac town
I can’t figure out how to multiquote from my phone but pretend I quoted this quote and also you calling wiml town and then Mac wolf

And my response is .... are you going to explain anything?
You have the quote button, then to the right of that is the 2 word bubbles, that is collects for multi-quote.

@alexa
Then this string, which doesn't do a lot.

Focuses on the Alexa read, then helps mech.

Nothing too important.

Then some more non-interactions like:
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:57 pm
Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:55 pmI'm town
Are you?
And then outs a basic ass townread on me like:
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:01 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:59 pm kind of gut townreading EnderWiggin
Agreeing with you. The "I'll find him by Day 3" post was actually kinda bad ass and towny.

Has some early townreads and interactions, also has a hard-shield player.

He then spends a majority of the next posts defending Alexa from various sussing, then susses Ilario hard.

Then Alison causes a bit of sus to come LC's direction and he fends it off okay.

Just saw that I rate a 7/10 on Alison's scum game quality eval.

Just noting here that I actually feel like I can do better than that. I will either improve or prove that I'm worth of at least a 9/10 some time in the future. /ego

Then a bunch more fluff including great snark at me.

Then:
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:55 am I was eating popcorn.

Why does Nanook have a wagon?
Incidentally his first mention of Nanook all game.

A lot more fluff.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:32 am Okay but seriously.

Townreads:
Alexa
Esooa
Ender
Nanook
Illario (Sheeping Alexa)

That's all I have currently.
Then finally puts out a general townlist. This is fine.

Then plays HARD shield, which is normally a good look for LC.

THEN gets in a fight with Transcend.

THEN outs this reads list:
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:23 pm READLIIIIIIST:

Town:
Alexa
Esooa
Ender
Alison
Illario
Wiml
Mac
Nanook
TSP
Transcend
Maf:

The bottom 3 are more POE.
Which is just hilarious to me.

Then mostly fluff and directly joking with Alexa.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:11 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:06 pm Hi. What is your solve?
Transcend is 1, and the other is either Nanook or maybe TSP?

I don't know the stuff with Mac. Is Mac capable of making that many team solves at once as mafia?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:12 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:55 am if wiml is town then esooa/Alison/ilario/transcend contain wolves with ilario/esooa or ilario/Alison or transcend/Alison being the team

if Alison is town its wiml/transcend with esooa as swing

if transcend is town it's just wiml/ilario

if ilario is town wiml is always a wolf

if esooa is town it's wiml/transcend with Alison as swing
I'm talking this type of post, is there a world where Mac makes this post as mafia?
Then moves to this Mac read, this is a little nuanced compared to previous stuff I remember from his wolf game.

Then more fluff and defense of Alexa.

Actually gives solid thoughts on why Alexa is town, but this is not outside LC wolf range.

D2 he actually asks a few questions while continuing with the Alexa shield.

Starts to press Mac hard. Most of the rest of his game is aggro on LC

THIS IS WHERE THE FUN STARTS.

Time to cross-reference.

IN JOATED:
Plays very similar. Outs strong townread and defends. Aggros on some people. Offers some townreads. Generally gets quieter as the game goes.

I actually reckon LC is in his scum range.

In the little town exposure, I've seen him make reads where he explains the reasoning for his decisions, as if showing off the way he's mentally arrived at this thought.

In this game he has only outed townreads, with the only one he's properly explained is his Alexa shield.

This is exactly the same as in JOATED where he only outed reasons for shielding Honey.
Interestingly, I actually think LC's current play is more scum!Indicative of him than town.

Turns out I can change my mind.

This is fair, Ender. I've been slightly worried about him. I was at first going to defend that him shielding me is towny for him but you already acknowledged that. I see him as very far from IC ngl.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:06 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:04 am Though the question being asked is perhaps ambiguous
you literally answered my question with a question

you're dodging and it's wolfy
Your question had a false premise

how so?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:04 am Though the question being asked is perhaps ambiguous

you literally answered my question with a question

you're dodging and it's wolfy

Wiml maybe my fos on you looked opportunistic but that's because I doubt my own reads a lot but I'm kind of done with that

i think you're a villager, if your response last night tells me anything it's that. Esooa's is wrongly tunneled and probably actively helping wolves/damaging thread health

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:56 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:55 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:53 am Mason buddy vote Alexa with me, let’s test a theory
why do you even scumread me? i feel like you don't give a fuck about solving mine or ilario's slot and i did not get that feeling from anni at all where you had tinfoiled me but had no problem finding me as villager
Why do you think I scumread you

you're a wolf.

also i don't care if i die because this game has been the opposite of fun so whatever

i think wiml's likely a villager and tony's just a wolf

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:53 am Mason buddy vote Alexa with me, let’s test a theory

why do you even scumread me? i feel like you don't give a fuck about solving mine or ilario's slot and i did not get that feeling from anni at all where you had tinfoiled me but had no problem finding me as villager

i think ilario is hard town
i don't townread LC quite as confidently but i'm sponging Esooa/ilario's reads too

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:51 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:49 am yeah we can discuss this in post but i'm pretty sure i'm always right
Teams with people who know Alison have to deal with Alexa/LC/ilario. Sweet spot is like wiml/Nanook or whatever

we only need to be dealt with if scum assumes there's no way to ML us
based on how this day has played out so far that doesn't seem to be the case

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:49 am Like the least likely teams to kill Alison are probably two people who have played a lot with Alison because of game dynamics

i think you're bullshitting

yeah we can discuss this in post but i'm pretty sure i'm always right

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