The Syndicate

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:11 pm Sunbae, I'm really sorry, I felt myself unfairly treating you worse than I should have at the beginning there and I tried to avoid talking in the chat much for that reason.

you aint got nothing to apologize for. mafia gets tense sometimes and you didn't say anything bad or anything. just got a vibe that you were kinda mad still at the start. Ain't no thing

Hey vulgard, read your post

Glad to hear you mention animosity cause I definitely caught that vibe early in dead chat but all in all I think you played amazing, went with an approach targeting people that knew you, succeeded massively in it, and just got mechanics'd by someone that doesn't know you at all. Biggest takeaway I have is that wins and losses are whatever but the ability to set a goal and achieve it in such a spectacular way will carry on to games in the future. You said you wanted to show that people who read you easily are doing it in a flawed way and I think you could not have possibly done a better job of that. Everyone that has experience with you had you as obvious villager on meta and I know future games will see them show a lot more hesitancy, You seem pretty rad and it's been nice getting to chat with you a bit in spec chat (even if we couldn't really talk about the game due to spoils). One day we'll town together and it'll be grand. So as one person who had to find some moral victories in disappointment from a wolf game they were playing well in and got mechanics'd out of (hi wild card game) to another, I think you should have a lot of pride in how this one went.

dizzy, i would love to play with you again in a game where im not trying my best to not be noticeable because i think you and i would vibe super hard
i also cracked up at your bullshit \o/ post today

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:49 pm sunbae is our king

i REALLY started to doubt my spf clear near the end so im glad the flow chart was right lol

well done village!
gg all
thanks for the invite!

If vulgard is wolf roleblocker and i die in the night, can someone post the my heart will go on song from titanic in my honor tomorrow?

anyways, probs outie for good

thanks for inviting me to a game here
i like the site and the people have been lovely

look forward to playing with you all again sometime
in the far, far future sure ... but sometime

I've determined that as long as the answer is something I've been dancing around I'll end up feeling fine about this game
If it's something I'm way off on like spf/dizzy/marl then idfk whatever

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:23 pm Sunbae I want you to know I was never a wolf in case vulgard flips v

And dya C4 r the wolves (just look at c4s inability to do anything)

i mean fwiw i dont think youre a wolf via posting, it was just the only explanation i could find for vulgard being v (ended up finding a second one later)

i tried to angel you n1 and if i was wrong shrug

part of me would laugh kinda hard if you were wrb tho cause thatd suck, get rb'd trying to save you and then save your kill because i thought they were wolfy lol

play bad get there etc

bro, just feel sketchy about the post guiding me onto alison over dya + the fear that all of the squidward looking at spongebob and patrick having fun memes are supposed to be me looking at you and outed wolf having fun in wolf chat lol

i thought i already posted this but i dont see it

in the event we kill wolf rb
dont read into anything if i die
i might get real weird with my target
i might not
idk yet

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:20 pm i once played a game where the vig (me) hit scum on n1 while simultaneously dying, the jk successfully blocked 3 of the next 5 nks, and town still lost

mafia is a bad game

incredible lol

ive betrayed you

they're all good cats arete

Marluxion wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:15 pm If vulgard is actually the roleblocker sunbae could theoretically stop the next kill too which would be insanely funny

has anyone ever seen a jk block 3/4 kills cause i want this to happen and to snipe the next two too

think the general approach i used today makes sense but if its wrong, its wrong

bro, i cannot recall what it was about wolf/dizy that made me think that sorry.

i do think chloe/dya can be teammates in any of the worlds presented yes

like, ima be honest

if you asked me based on posting/pairings/who seemed to care about specific things/who had an agenda/whathaveyou through the first two days after rereading id say bro/dya + wolf or marl (wolf/bro splitting the difference on the dya discussion so one comes out looking fine or marl getting vul to claim jk)

but theres a lot of other stuff going on (including the god read of vulgard thats never wrong also being wrong) and mechanical stuff that just make me wanna shrug and let this finish (vulgard basically shutting down and memeing while bro continues being active being a main proponent too)

i still think that regardless of the answer we're in pretty good shape so glgl

been fun, just properly reevaluate after flips

I have no new thoughts

Happy pride month

bronana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:17 am maybe i just want to consider dizzy as a wolf because otherwise I find the amount of worlds that include the three wolves voting as a bloc d1 *and* d2 to save a wolf disconcerting, especially because i voted with them both times in that case loooool

Someone talked about hally kill implicated dizzy and i just read it but cant recall who it was. they should talk more about that.

ok, im outie. i believe in you all.
should drop in tomorrow in the early afternoon and we'll get it done

bronana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:12 am
sunbae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:08 am I feel like I should have more worlds where C4 is a wolf but they just kept not happening
idk, i am kinda coming around to them just not seeming super likely to be teamed with wolves?

according to marl this is similar to how c4 plays as town, apparently spf reads him well too and thinks he's town?

i'm ron burgundy?

Marluxion wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 4:51 am like i told vulgard in the nightchat c4 so far this game has been near identical to harry potter fm where he hardly posts and still has an incredibly confident poe that he barely budges on

c4 was town in harry potter

spf could be reading into that but it could also just be a pocket, idk
also i am beginning to wonder if dizzy is being cleared too easily, tell me to stop if this is just bad paranoia creeping in

my problem with dizzy is i dont think dizzy is with vulgard, with you, or with dya so like that leaves something way off the wall like SPF/Dizzy/Nutella and idk if I feel like thats reasonable given all the rest of my information (such as, why is that group killing vulgard if his poe is me/you/outed. So itd have to include marl over spf or nutella, which again, meh?

I do wonder why I spent so much time this game day stressing about/reading the game. I had already done a fine job, day 3 + a kill stopped, dropped in relevant info, could just kick back and chill and feel ok

instead i reread everything and am more annoyed with myself for not having a hard solve than i was previously lol

i need to learn to like, be more chill with myself

I feel like I should have more worlds where C4 is a wolf but they just kept not happening

I've reread this thread in its entirety for what I am hoping is the last time.

I currently have three potential solves: two reasonable solves and a games a bit funky solve.

1.) The reasonable solve is the straightforward one. It's Vulgard + Dya/SPF + Chloe/C4/Arete. If Vulgard is a wolf, a bunch of people become clear to me. Arete due to the reaction all day today. Bronana due to the pressure from Vulgard at times and Bronana's confusion on Vulgard near eod2. Dyslexicon due to the word usage read on Vulgard out of nowhere. Marl due to the night chat fake claiming thing. Outed Wolf due to the Wrong post.

Of the remaining people, SPF and Dya are not teamed. Just read SPF's ISO and the constant movement back to Dya. Nutella and Dya are not teamed, just read Nutella's ISO and see how hard they go at Dya d1. However, SPF and Vulgard could be paired due to the way Vulgard kept getting others to town case SPF for him. I would go Dya first due to Vulgards defense of Dya into shifting to pushing them a bit once “outed”. If Dya is a wolf, I would clear SPF and Nutella. If Dya is town I would go SPF. If SPF were a wolf, I would clear Arete and C4 (people Vulgard got to town case SPF for him) and finish off the game with Chloe. If Chloe didn't end it, I'd shrug and vote Nutella and be unhappy but everyone else would be clear to me (note, Nutella is not paired with Chloe due to the way Chloe sponged the Nutella thing onto Amy). To make that more visually appealing instead of word vomit:

Vulgard → If wolf, Dya → If wolf, Chloe → If town, C4 → If town, Arete
Vulgard → If wolf, Dya → If town, SPF → If wolf, Chloe → If town, Nutella
Vulgard → If wolf, Dya → If town, SPF → If town, Chloe → If wolf, C4

2.) The other reasonable solve for me is Outed Wolf + (marl/Bronana/Dya/chloe)

In this scenario we have Vulgard claiming JK to Marl, the wolves shooting there, and Vulgard being saved. The reason Amy gets a track off is EITHER because Outed Wolf is the Mafia Roleblocker who targeted her n1 but got blocked by the jailkeep OR because Bronana is the third and carried the kill since he could not be targeted by Amy anyways.

3.) The funky solve is Bronana + Dya + (Marl/Chloe/arete)

The way this one works is that Bronana knew he couldn't be tracked, tried to kill someone pestering him last night, got saved, and the Vulgard/Outed Wolf scenario is v/v. In this scenario, c4 is not a wolf for the way Bronana/Dya have brought them up. Dizy isn't a wolf from the discussions with bronana. Dya/Bronana make a reasonable pair (Bronana's posts to me to get onto alison, voting alison/amy but not Dya) which would remove SPF/Nutella. That'd leave Marl (claimed jk by Vulgard to push it over the top), Chloe (bad posts around dya sponging nutella), and Arete (literally the last remaining possible person if the others miss).

Conclusion: As I take a step back, reread the thread, think of additional possibilities, and just focus on interactions/posting, I think I my main take is "I think we're going to be ok". While there are a lot of scenarios, I feel like there are a lot of pivot points where getting a single flip boxes it in really well. If people look at these groupings and decide some "well Dya keeps popping up, lets go there" thing I can't stop you. I'ma be up for like 15 more minutes to answer anything, otherwise I'll see you tomorrow.

I also want to clarify that this isn't my theory on the likely scenario. Just one that did exist outside of the two I had initially come up with.

I've established a third scenario: Bronana is a wolf that carried the kill. The wolves did not choose to roleblock Amy because Amy could not track Bronana after tracking him night 1 and they chose to hold a roleblock because it ensured Amy never found anything relevant (in fact, it could help them locate the Jailkeeper since the only other person moving would be the Jailkeeper). Additionally, they could save the roleblock for later in the game to block the jailkeeper if necessary (its a 2x use roleblock).

In this scenario, the wolves doc dodged by killing Vulgard - who was suspicious of Bronana - and when the kill didn't go through Bronana believes he's been blocked and prepares the seeds of the fake claim.

I've got a pretty long post on the way (maybe even tomorrow, its late) but I wanted to put this out there first. I do think Outed Wolf is teamed with Bronana a lot of the times in this world anyways, but yeah.

It would be helpful to hear who you think Outed Wolf could be/isn't teamed with, who you think was opportunistic in coming at you, discuss Dya a bit more (you were pretty defensive about them yesterday in that wall I quoted), talk a bit about some of the more uncertain reads like SPF, etc.

While the situation is frustrating regardless of your role, I hope for a big stint of solving as we get closer rather than shutting down. Like, if you are town you have the best view of the gamestate moving forward. You have an extensive chat with Marl, what is his alignment imo? Do you feel like Bronana/Outed Wolf are teamed? We've got a tangy/chloe/syn slot that has been hard to get a read on due to it bouncing around so much, so whatcha landing on there?

Essentially, my brain hurts and I'm not really in the frame of mind to just get bombarded at about mechanical stuff repeatedly. Like, I put my take out there, I feel really good about it, but I'm not going to like, beg people to agree with me. If you don't, you don't and I suggest you spend time just solving people based on their posts for a while.

No matter what happens, I feel like I did my job ok this game. I stayed out of the immediate poe, stopped a kill one way or another, and will enjoy the sweet, sweet release of dvc at the end of the day. If my interpretation of the mechanics are incorrect, sorry but I tried. I think, personally, vulgards posting today is wolfy in isolation of any mechanical stuff so I'm currently voting there but i don't know them so who knows! If you think "people in this game just brain farted and amy got a track" is a potential answer, then find someone you think is posting wolfy and vote them.

I think I've done my job and I have no desire to run point any further
someone else take over

I'm going to step away for potentially the rest of the day so i can have some posts tomorrow. I'm pretty much done with the mechanical aspects and I suggest others also start trying to solve a large swath of the game. Concoct a list you feel good about their town chances, start working together, and figure it out. These are my last moments in the game and I want to leave it in a place of people trying to solve things rather than just sitting back waiting for me to make a decision. You're all smart folks, you don't need me to tell you who to vote.

I'd like you to factor in my feelings on the mechanics, but use it as a springboard to your own solving. Go iso folks, find some clears, get cohesive, and lets do this.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:00 pm sunbae I still don't get your dichotomy ELI5

The actions that occurred last night were:
- No roleblock on outed tracker Amy
- No kill targeting outed tracker Amy
- Either a kill towards vulgard blocked by JK
- Or a kill being made by vulgard blocked by JK

In the event that the wolves tried to kill Vulgard, they have a roleblocker that can target Amy and prevent a track from happening. They did not elect to use this.

The argument has been presented that "well they expected Amy to be jailkept so they did not use the roleblock" but this argument holds no water. This argument is presented side by side with the "Marl is a wolf who Vulgard claimed JK to" argument to explain why Vulgard was targeted for a kill. In this scenario, the wolves "know" all of the power roles and have no extra use for that roleblock (tracker is 2x, jailkeeper is dying and can't target themselves). This means for this case to be accurate, you must believe that the wolves chose not to use the roleblock despite knowing who the power roles were and who the jk was likely targeting.

The only exception to this rule is if specifically Outed Wolf is the mafia roleblocker who specifically tried to target Amy night 1. Because I jailkept Outed Wolf on n1, in this scenario the wolves CANNOT roleblock Amy and have to hope Amy just gets Jailkept. Since they need to hope Amy is jailkept anyways, the kill goes elsewhere. Now, this does not require Marl to also be a wolf because Vulgard was suspicious of Outed Wolf, so Outed Wolf choosing to kill Vulgard as a doctor dodge is reasonable.

Therefore, the only options in which Vulgard is not a wolf (due to amy not being roleblocked) is one in which Outed Wolf is specifically the roleblocker who targeted amy n1.

No other scenarios exist that adequately explain why 1.) vulgard is targeted and 2.) amy is not roleblocked

One of vulgard or outed wolf is specifically the wolf roleblocker. Worlds exist where in theory Outed Wolf is a wolf roleblocker and Vulgard is a wolf goon, but that's a problem for a different day because they are not very likely (wrong WRONG post by outed wolf).

Vulgard or Outed Wolf always contains a wolf. Always.

Outed, the scenario in which you're a wolf is one in which you physically cannot roleblock amy night 2 because you tried n1 and can't do it back to back

my plan is to kill vulgard, if town kill outed wolf and bronana
if wolf, kill dya and chloe

reevaluate after

saving posts for a while

Look, I cannot break this down any clearly than this:

either vulgard is a wolf or outed wolf is specifically the wolf roleblocker

worlds even exist where both are true!

zero worlds exist where neither are true. I just cannot fathom it.

So figure out which one is which.

I targeted Outed Wolf on night 1 (was aiming to save him)
I targeted Vulgard on night 2 (was aiming to roleblock him)

Angel + roleblock happened to both of them

Again, Outed Wolf was jailkept night 1 so that's the entire reason why it can be possible.

He targeted amy, got roleblocked himself, couldn't target amy n2, amy gets a track in this scenario

It is the only option that exists without you being a wolf and I can't fathom why you're just dismissing it when you've had outed wolf as a wolf for like a day and a half anyways

I'm going to make a flow chart solve

No, because I jailkept you n1 so if you are wolf roleblocker you got roleblocked and jailkeeper goes first

The followup question would be: In a world where Outed Wolf is the mafia roleblocker why would vulgard be targeted? The answers are as follows

1. Because he's a wolf with Marl and Marl told him Vulgard claimed JK
2. Because he's a wolf with Bronana and Vulgards poe was Bronana/Outedwolf/Me

If you pick the outed wolf option from the first question, pick your follow up option here please

A villager will never, ever "bait marl into nightkilling me" because they think marl is a wolf in an overnight chat after spending apparently hours solving with marl and then coming into the thread the next day buddying marl and softing PR again.

Please also note the difference in posting style, intensity, and panic in vulgards postings today vs d1/d2 (which were super calm, chill, and meticulous).

The answer is the vulgard is wolf roleblocker who was setting up a potential claim for down the line to villager marl (both to increase thread influence by pocketing marl and to potentially eventually counter a kill a jk), sent in a kill on X and a rb on amy, got blocked, whoopsies.

The idea that the wolves thought they knew both power roles, knew that the jk was NOT blocking amy (which is the case if wolf marl thinks jailkeeper vulgard is blocking c4), and didn't roleblock amy is just preposterous. Asinine.

Your options are as follows:

1. Vulgard is a wolf who was rather clear, carried the kill as the safest option, got got
2. Outed Wolf is wolf roleblocker who targeted Amy n1, couldn't n2, decided to doc dodge onto vulgard, got a save. We don't even HAVE to have marl wolf for this scenario though its pretty likely.

Thats it.

Pick one and explain why.

The number of people that went from "vulgard lock wolf" to "omg vulgard so towny nvm" once a single, extremely unlikely scenario was presented that allowed it to be so (Outed Wolf being specifically wolf roleblocker who targeted amy n1) upsets me. I also think there's a lot of nonsense floating around about "blocking the jk so they could kill the jk" because the jk can't target themselves silly geese.

1. Your theories that Marl is a wolf REQUIRES and answer to "why was amy not roleblocked" and there hasn't been one. It's a 2 shot tracker so holding the roleblock makes no sense, especially in this world where you believe that the Marl is a wolf tat learned that Vulgard is a jailkeeper. The wolves then just kill Vulgard and block Amy and are done with PRs. This did not occur therefore this scenario is not what happened.

2. I disagree vehemently that Vulgard has posted towny overnight. Vulgard has gone hard in the paint to find any possible solution that people will buy, has been focused mostly on that instead of "who are the wolves", and the few "who are the wolves" posts have been opportunistic and different than their previous posting. I quoted a wall of text defending Dya and now - when nothing has changed because Vulgard already thought Alison was town - the shift has gone there?

Take it from someone that's really, really good at talking himself out of situations (see: being a peeked wolf in cult mash and winning alive at end game), vulgard is talking himself out of the situation.

Answers vulgard friends, sorry. Alternative is that Outed Wolf is specifically roleblocker who targeted amy n1, but the fact that vulgard is going off on other stuff instead - read, easier chops - means that it's probs not the case.

Hold the line. I'll be back later.

I'm going to be honest. I was really hoping Vulgard just countered me so I didn't have to worry anymore.

It is far too late for me to properly use critical thinking so this is me saying that I've seen Vulgard's post, I nod along to it, and I am looking forward into seeing where Vulgard's solving takes us today. If you are indeed town, I'm sorry for the quick trigger but hopefully you understand how from my pov it was accurate. We have 36 hours and I'm sure by the end of it we can get there if that's the solution.

Arete, I just want to say I acknowledge your post and will give it some thought. Outed Wolf being the wolf roleblocker + wolves dodging Amy is a scenario which is at least theoretically possible, especially if Marl is a wolf too (so they think vulgard is jk).

I'm going to get some sleep, leave my vote where it is (no maj yay!), and see where the thread is when I get up.

Vulgard, if you're town you have a ton of reactions of people that know something messy happened. So lmk what stands out to you.

One final post for this evening: we have a ton of information now. Eod1 was v/w discussions, mid day 2 was v/v wagons, eod2 was v/?. There should be a lot to churn through. Who seemed to care about figuring out who the wolves were, especially on day 2? How did wagons form and dissipate? We have one wolf we can really focus on as a thread driver/excellent poster and one low posting wolf that other wolves needed to talk about (especially compared to low poster Gavriel!).

You know all those posts you had about meta reads and previous games and how well you read others? Now you get to do that with actual, factual information as supplemental evidence. Let's iron this out, tighten up, get that grind work done, and close this game out so we can get that little Serotonin feel good for a job well done. Box the wolves in, have confidence. We got this <3

Arete wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 12:43 am tfw someone claims a redcheck on your top townread and you keep waiting for them to be super wolfy so you can bury them and they keep making villagery posts

Sunbae do you absolutely 100 percent hardclaim that if you are a villager you are specifically the Jailkeeper who jailkept specifically Vulgard, and definitely didn't, like, change your action and forget or something

100% never unclaiming, never rescinding, i am a jailkeeper that jailkept vulgard overnight

I have 48 posts after this one so I'ma stop for now so I can see how the thread develops.

I feel pretty good about the general thread consensus. I think in worlds where Dya is not a wolf, SPF is one but I'm at like a 85/15 odds wise there and the only reason SPF is there is due to the vulgard stuff which, who knows, might be bad due to "been werewolfing for like 5 hrs straight brain melted" reasons. I do not think dya/spf make sense together.

This day didn't really go the way I really hoped for but I think all things considered I'm ok with how I handled it? Maybe I should have let marl's stuff go and see who spewed where but I didn't want people to spend half their posts on an incorrect pr situation. Idk.

It's been fun tho, much <3 and see ya tomorrow

Side note: played poker for the first time really since black friday a decade ago and got third in an mtt. its uh, not changed that much lol. $$$$ hype today was a good day. Hope you all have a good one tomorrow

Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 5:53 pm dyachei:

- Seems baffled by how polarized Gavial's meta is portrayed to be. I see no earlier mentions of Gavial in their ISO.
- Disagrees with Dizzy shielding Gavial. Claims that Gavial is antitown at minimum, if not outright wolfy. Does not say Gavial is a wolf, mind you.
- Doubles down on that take. Claims they are unsure what Gavial's play means for his alignment. Is familiar with Gavial's polarized meta (comments on it in their first post about Gavial), yet still says this. Doesn't really seem convinced Gavial is mafia - or that he is town.
- Claims they are trying to determine whether Gavial is a wolf or not when responding to Alison's take that his behavior has been NAI so far. A little odd considering they are already suspecting Alison at this point (agreeing with Alison's take on Gavial while wolfreading Alison), but hey. Occam's Razor tells me this is just honest evaluation on dya's end.
- Calls Alison wolfier than Gavial. I don't see a real progression here, or any progression at all, for that matter. This post also implies dya now thinks Gavial is wolfy, so. I'm not sure if this is a thing I should seriously take issue with, but the fact dya hasn't called anyone a wolf yet (just "wolfy") doesn't sit right with me. It wasn't the case with the other ISOs I've read. Then again, I scumread some of the people I've ISOd today, and they've called people wolves like normal, so...
- Outright says that Gavial/Alison is W/V. Really weird preflip in my opinion. It seems to be predicated on the idea Alison's treatment of Gavial is TMIng Gavial town (though dya had admitted they found Gavial wolfy). I... kinda see where they're coming from, but this seems like a very bold read to make day 1, considering you are making two implications here. One: thread consensus of Gavial metareaders is wrong and Gavial is a wolfy villager. Two: Alison is mafia for her treatment of him. Correct me if that's not the viewpoint being presented. This stands out as a pretty contrarian take and towny in a vacuum, I'm just iffy about how readily dya came to that conclusion when we didn't even see Gavial's flip.
- Claims that if Alison flips V, Gavial is a wolf, independently of whatever Alison herself thought about him (the thought being that his behavior is NAI). Also has a post before this that says word for word: "because neither of you are villagery. you least of all" @ Alison and Gavial not being V/V. I think that's very towny snark right there, especially since dya's addressing Alison. If dya's a wolf addressing v!Alison, I don't think they choose this language and approach there, especially this early in the game. If dya's a wolf addressing w!Alison, I don't think this approach is made at all. Dya presents a fairly consistent perspective that there is always at least one wolf between Alison and Gavial, but while Alison's treatment of Gavial might make her a wolf (and it makes her the more likely wolf in dya's eyes), Gavial's independently wolfy enough that with v!Alison he can still be mafia. I think this perspective is fine. I disagree with the Alison scumread, since I've already explained how her treatment of Gavial doesn't make sense to me as something that comes from mafia, but I can see why dya believes what they believe here. It looks genuine to me, while also being contrarian and not the approach I'd envision dya taking if they're a wolf looking to push a misyeet.
- Maintains that the wolfread on Gavial is a meta thing and continues to push her perspective re: Gavial/Alison, I am not going to repeat it here.
- Outright tells Alison that they aren't going to take her read into account in a world where she flips green, straight into her face. I still think it's towny. It's not an overly reasonable/overly tunnely approach I could see a wolf taking. It's extremely snarky and has this underlying confidence behind it that I like. If dya's a wolf after all, well done with this push because I really think it's towny despite me disagreeing with it. I'm probably awarding dya too many townpoints for this, but yeah.
- Gavial and Alison are the bottom two reads on dya's readlist.
- Pushes Gavial instead. I'm not sure why dya's choosing to push Gavial instead of Alison here. Maybe since an Alison d1 yeet isn't happening.
- Gets into a scuffle with Gavial with implied personal insults involved. I think that's also villagery. I think a wolf wouldn't take this approach against someone they are currently misyeeting and do it without qualms. Dya barrels out with this pretty much straight out the gate, not after Gavial annoyed them or anything.
- Tries to reconcile their Alison and Gavial reads.
- Swaps to KZA at the end, didn't really see a visible progression there. Potentially justifiable by using the logic "I now think Alison is wolfier and if Alison is W then Gavial is V and I need to vote off the Gavial wagon," but I don't see any sign in the thread that would explain why dya switched their vote there. Them voting Alison at the start of day 2 seems consistent with their POV at least.

Overall, while dya's POV has seemed pretty narrow so far, I actually like the way they are approaching the Alison push even though I disagree with it. I think their treatment of Alison/Gavial has been fine and decently inquisitive. I can see how people wolfread their approach considering the tone dya's taking, but I think the snark and aggression where it doesn't exactly seem warranted is village indicative. I could see people going "Vulgard why are you townreading a bad tone" but it's not a point I'm willing to debate because I just do.

I also don't see anything on dya's end that would directly indicate w!dya's partnered with Amy - outside of dya calling Amy their top town, I suppose, but it could be taken both ways.

I think dya's a villager.

place your bets friends: wolf talking about villager or wolf talking about teammate?

Arete wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 12:27 am I didn't actually read all the quotes but I do notice that Chloe specifically sheeped onto the Amy wagon without actually making a read on her herself, just saying that she was sheeping Nutella (?)

which isn't necessarily always scummy, I did the same thing with sheeping Vul onto Amy , but when she voted Alison she did the same thing where most of the justification she gave for her vote was reasonable-but-not-alignment-based ('Dya is more useful than Alison' type logic) rather than actually calling Alison a wolf even if she did shade her nonpresence a bit

and that's a pattern that makes me mrrr a bit, justifying your vote with a reason that's still true if you have TMI is the sort of mistake I don't expect Chloe to prevent herself from making

Yeah, the sponge doesn't bother me that much but the "i think dya is more likely but amy is partner potential" as the justification is just ... entirely out of whack to be voting amy over dya in that case imo?

I have minor, minor, minor concerns reading through Vulgard's iso that there are multiple instances of Vulgard getting others to elaborate on town reads of SPF and - given I think vulgard is like, hyper mega elite from what I've seen - I do have concerns that it could be a situation where a wolf is expressing minor concern/confusion on a wolfmate and gets villagers to talk them off of it/towncase the teammate for them/whatever you call it.

There's: "Elaborate on SPF, please. I have SPF as town for vague "I like her posts and I like SPF so I want her to be town" reasons but yes." towards Amy (town)

"I'm starting to townread SPF for the sole reason that I like her posts and not because of anything she has done. Help." towards Arete (I'm thinking pocketed townie)

"So the things I bolded as TMI indicators are just the way she [Sunbae's addition: referring to SPF] talks?" towards c4 getting c4 to continue defending SPF

I think this only comes into play if Dya ends up being town though. Felt like it needed to be said tho. Also, if SPF does end up being a wolf, arete and c4 are villagers

starting to get the puzzle pieces in place friends

Spoiler: show

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 9:06 pm [VOTE: dyachei] aubergine

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:45 pm [VOTE: marl] aubergine

feeling good about chloe lol and... yeah

Marluxion wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 2:01 am
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:56 pm "c4 getting tilted at people agreeing with him completely but not acknowledging his existence"
SPOILER: SHOW
[VOTE: dyachei] aubergine
i appreciate you remotely detonated explosive chessguy

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 3:48 am my initial instinct wasn't to derpclear marl from that but based on both his own reaction and arete's + chloe's, yeah sure

gonna fuck around and [VOTE: Amy] aubergine

visor tunneling her/dya seems worth some weight

sunbae i dont think you're fairly representing my kza/gav attitudes, and while i get that you're hesitant to just trust others' meta reads on me, I'm really hoping you can just read through my posts from today and find them villagery on their own merit, it's possible my play style just doesn't quite vibe with yours but i would like to work together. I appreciate that you're open minded about dya as well, tbh I change my mind on them like every few hours lol but I agree with visor that they're flat and with marl that they're a bit similar to reflections. town dya can be stubborn/tunnelly yes but usually I can follow their approach more than I have here.

I also very much vibed with visor's evaluation of amy as like, overly confident and not actually engaging deeply with reads

Chloe wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 3:51 am sheeping my mason
nyoom

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine

Chloe wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 3:52 am think dya is a likelier hit than amy just for the fact that i've liked amy's tone
but i also feel like they have high partner equity

bronana wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 5:44 am [VOTE: dyslexicon] aubergine

omgus. I don't understand your case on me or why Nutella finds it so compelling, feels like you are maybe trying to bait me into a thunderdome as an avenue to generate content today

at some point searching my name I think I saw visor made a reads list wall with actual reasons and thought who even are you

I am not totally comfortable with Amy/dya but I don't really think they are wolves there I said it prepare your memes if one or both flips red

I think the consensus poe is probably bunk but have no good ideas myself for where to go, maybe some combo of dizzy/marl/Alison ... c4? some person being townread for doing stuff? are we are vulgard is town? why is visor so confident nutella is town

I wanted to go to sleep awhile ago but couldn't stop thinking about this shit even though I never fully caught up on the thread. mafia is so freaking dumb

classic shitty late night zack post people will hate

Amy wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 5:54 am [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

i guess?

i'm having misgivings about dya, not because of anything they've done but because everyone else seems SO certain that they're onto something that i wonder if i'm a dumbass for wanting to townread them

and that's the primary thing giving me pause about my alison read

but i think alison's playing a fairly underwhelming game if town and i still think the seth thing is weird

though c4 did still have a cromulent point about the w/w vs w/v thing... i think? i haven't reread the interactions in question

and i'm not going to tonight

this post is a mess probably but i probably shouldn't be awake given my recent sleeping troubles

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 4:38 pm [VOTE: alison] aubergine

bronana wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 4:39 pm I feel like usually I am the one who correctly wolfreads dya when other people think they're a villager, so this game where they're the most consensus suspect but I don't really think they're a wolf is bizarro land. Same applies to amy but to a lesser extent, I'm not sure how I feel about amy.

Am I so out of touch? No, it's the POE that is wrong

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

outed wolf wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 5:48 pm [VOTE: amy] aubergine

If y'all are gonna have cold feet on dya, whatever

Kill Amy then

Alison wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 5:57 pm [VOTE: amy] aubergine

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 7:10 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

Arete wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:14 pm [VOTE: Amy] aubergine

I feel like I should be voting someone and more of my villagereads are here

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:00 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 6:10 pm @nutella Can you go through how you thought about Gavial's and KZA's alignment and the relation between these? Because I distinctly remember that the consensus seemed to be that KZA might've TMI-ed Gavial as town. And in general, I think it was pretty obvious the pair did not fit as w/w. Even I, with he little context I had, came to this conclusion. Yet, you seemed to suggest KZA would be scum regardless of Gavial's flip, if I'm not mistaken (as Sunbae showed). Why is this?
I don't remember particularly associating them either way on d1, I felt more strongly that KZA would flip scum and was voting there, but was fine with Gav being chopped. Maybe in retrospect I should have seen the KZA stuff that spewed Gav not w/w with him, but it wasn't on my mind at the time.

Alison's posts still have me concerned -- her view of the game feels limited and unclear.

Appreciating Dizzy's thoughts and the convergence on Alison and bronana as priority suspects works for me. Think Amy is still my #1 choice atm but those are all names I want to see talked about for the chop. Honestly might just go for zack over amy (seeing the amy post about how zack might be deliberately tying himself to her -- I'd probably still want to chop her next if zack is red but would be worth further consideration at least... also i can't even tell if that's a thing anymore or if hes all in on sring her now lol) (alternatively they're still w/w and just both shifting into distancing more now aa)

still reading and condensing into one post

i like c4's read that alison reacted more strongly to being tied to seth than to w/v cases, that could be a real mindset thing, i'm not totally following the whole discussion of the comparison that follows tho

Chloe wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:50 pm zack do you have any thoughts on my post outside of the fact that you think im being overexplainy on my early nut read
did you read the actual words, basically
because that felt nasty ngl and i dont get the feeling you actually read the content and instead jumped onto something to try to cast me in a bad light

no me gusta
samebrainsamebrain

Amy wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:52 pm
Arete wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:51 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:43 pm @Amy Should I bus you?
um

is scumchat on the Syndicate usually on Discord or on the forum itself?
lmao arete really is just town huh
lol

weh at 2193 now i'm appreciating amy expressing those concerns with dya (not defending their townreads, and again not having been super transparent with thoughts itt)

i wonder if i'm better off voting zack bc like, i think he's probably just a wolf, whereas i'm at sort of a weird back-and-forth on amy and dya? with alison just another wrench in things. overall still have amy as a stronger gut wolfread than dya, though i don't hate her recent posts. hrm

amy's readlist in 2233 is very.... suddenly consensusy? i mean that's not necessarily bad. thread state has herself + alison/dya/zack as the main poe rn and it makes sense she'd turn to focusing there as either alignment

let's shake things up a bit [VOTE: bronana] aubergine

re: the most recent discussion: i do wish i felt more cohesion yeah. i think there's sort of nebulously a towncore and nebulously a consensus poe but not a huge amount of cooperation. i apologize for my part in being individualistic (and honestly i might not improve on that much this phase since i'm paying more mind to the postcap until eod). i do feel arete specifically has had a bit more of a narrow focus, and i've still been hesitant to include them fully in my own core. on the meta read stuff, again i apologize for having some of those but i don't think i've solely leaned on them for anyone, i've made reads here pretty mainly focused on people's contributions and engagement in this thread. like, there's plenty to go off of -- not having insights into other ppl's meta is not an excuse to hold back on giving your thoughts on them based on game content

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:57 pm [VOTE: dyachei] aubergine

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:19 am [VOTE: alison] aubergine

fuck it, i'm done letting her slot continue to exist

she has ignored prods to give us anything, just like kza did

there've been a couple decent micro-level reasons she could be a villager, but as she's continued to do nothing it really just kinda feels like she's demotivated/resigned/in antispew-ish territory

@ spf, my take is that if alison flips red i would put dya on a more-or-less clear-til-lylo level personally. i don't see them just zeroing in on hard bussing a partner from the get-go, unless it was literally a bigbrain alison strat that was cooked up in wolfchat from the start. and maybe i'm naive if i don't at least entertain that possibility, because lord knows alison is capable of targeting tailored plans to fool the people she needs to fool. but i've seen town dya just latch onto reads like that and get upset about not being listened to earlier enough times that, well, i would give them credit for it.

bronana wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:30 am im breaking kayfabe, lets kill amy

too many verbose posts that go nowhere, the zomg everyone is so villagy wallpost, trying to tie herself to me by accusing me of trying to tie myself to her

[VOTE: ampharos] aubergine

idk why i hesitated, idk what dya is seeing in amy, maybe its just something dumb like amy/dya/chloe and dya decided to hard tr her partners, who knows

Amy wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 3:07 am i'm tired and i wanna make sure people still have posts

@Alison
@Arete
@bronana
@c4e5g3d5
@dyachei
@Dyslexicon
@Gavial
@Hally
@Marluxion
@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
@nutella
@outed wolf
@staypositivefriend
@sunbae
@Tangrowth
@Vulgard

hardclaim tracker

n1 zack no visit

be here in earnest in like 10 minutes

Here was the day two rise and claim of the amy wagon. Outside of the chloe post I mentioned the other noteworthy things are Nutella actually throwing a vote around elsewhere instead of on two villagers (3 if dya is town) in the lead which I find towny and SPF going back to Dya a couple of times which I think makes them unlikely pairs. We've talked a bit about Bronana's avoiding Dya + later trying to get me onto Alison, but I find him towny anyways so I'm not concerned.

Anyone notice anything themselves?

Plz remind me postgame to make "sunbae, this is SO MANY words and i dont have a GODDAMN clue what it says" a quote on mu for my profile

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