The Syndicate

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:12 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:03 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:56 am
You have built a mountain about how myself and vivax were giving Tommy a pass but you didn't so much as say their name, ask a question, or ask anyone else to give a single thought about them which is in violent contrast with everyone else in your poe.

I like my vote a lot now tbh

Also kinda weirdchamp for you to compare my accusations and my actions since I barely mentioned them but you and Vivax actively made posts to try and undercut attempts to push the wagon.

For one Tommy only had one vote on them it wouldn't have been much of a pile on.

For two, yeah I am saying your interactions are worse. Vivax and I showed clear intent. We put ourselves out there and didn't want the day to devolve into just piling on Tommy. If anything given your nature of not liking to pile on you should have been there with us. I made it very clear that I wanted robust discussion and back and forth on many slots not just Tommy. You apparently had no concerns at any point to actually give voice to not piling on.

Afraid to stick up for someone you knew was wolf, I suspect. I didn't have the benefit of knowing Tommy's alignment so I was playing it as if he was rand wolf. I even said at one point if he is wolf I thought my actions to show restraint were pro town due to the benefits. I had a very nuance, detailed, and clear goal in what I was doing. I feel not an ounce of shame nor do I think I harmed town in the least.

I don't think your solving hits the mark and your day one iso is a pile of nothing tbh.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:56 am
You have built a mountain about how myself and vivax were giving Tommy a pass but you didn't so much as say their name, ask a question, or ask anyone else to give a single thought about them which is in violent contrast with everyone else in your poe.

I like my vote a lot now tbh

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:56 am All good. I got bit by meta was just cross referencing things.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:22 am So I have wolfreads on Achro, Axe, Flanders, Tommy, Vivax.

How many wolves are in this game?

So at this point you had gone back and forth on with me and vivax quite a bit. You ended up voting axe shortly after this. You didn't like Flanders because they scum read people you town read, and your only interaction with Tommy the entire day one was to respond with 'why is rondo' you never even mention Tommy's name again the entire day. In fact before day ended you had this to say as you returned.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:11 am Rondo is still in wolfish meta enough I'd be okay with him going over. But I'd prefer Porscha or another of my POE first tbh

You have built a mountain about how myself and vivax were giving Tommy a pass but you didn't so much as say their name, ask a question, or ask anyone else to give a single thought about them which is in violent contrast with everyone else in your poe.

I like my vote a lot now tbh

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:41 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:38 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:29 am FWIW I don't feel good about Porscha/Tommy being a team just based off the almost mocking way Porscha asked Tommy for their FM experience after Tommy was like 'oh Rondo is a player'

can you pull quotes

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:07 am

Tommy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:30 pm Ohhh rondo is a player

how much FM have you played

I just found something so sincere in this question that my mind immediately went 'not aligned' tbh

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:42 am Yeah I have a range. What account did you play anni on? Want to cross reference if I read you there despite you not remembering me.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:35 am Ok. Got it.

How closely do you read every post when catching up to the thread on a scale of 1 to 10?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:26 am Do you consider yourself someone who tunnels a lot as town?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:21 am Yes, but given you are apparently very good at reading them (source: dizzy) I thought you would have unique insight into why they might make that decision as town.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:10 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:04 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:01 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:00 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:51 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:47 am ender is the wolf

You think so or is this a joke I have been told I am bad at this so I don't want to get my hopes up

Why do you want to get your hopes up about me being wolf when you:

1. Agree with some points I make (See Sabi)

2. Have apparently townread me off my solving of you on D1?

Sir I am voting you.

(Wolves can make valid points. There are 12 town alive you can't sus them all d2)

I have yet to see you make an actual case for why I'm mafia tho.

Forgive me for saying but it is mildly like you're letting other people fill in the blanks.

I am, to my demise at times, a patient person. I overlook things and try to be objective because I have anger issues and I don't wish to be unkind. When I went hrm and voted you it is because you made me feel the exact same way a wolf did in champs and I swallowed that feeling and tried to solve.

Here I am not swallowing that feeling and trusting my instincts tbh.

On top of that looking over my town list I thought if I was wrong about anyone based on what I was doing it was you. Nanook says you are not out of wolf range and seanzie thinks you have wolf equity and I think he is town and I am almost certain vivax is town so your list is kind of just not great to me.

Additionally you have no problem saying you can read dizzy so well that you picked up on tone tells (which can be the case, not even disputing this) but when I ask you to follow the logic of backing away of porscha being good for Dizzy with the fact she went back to porscha today despite her giving reasons why suspecting her wasn't that great you then decide to defer to Dizzy instead of offering thoughts on the matter.

There ya go

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:33 am Thanks a lot. ISOs accessible like back on my homesite then.

On a reread, Seanzie and Achro stick out to me.
Achro more in their own category compared to lucy-kuti exchanges. Self-conscious early posts.
The vote on Lucy by Achro after being pinged my Mac reads really like a nervous snap reaction. Got a caveat for intentionality here, it's an elegant way to force a null read on it.
Feels like town-town though. Both sides seem to attempt an entrapment of the other.

At the bottom of P3 I spot this which gives me somewhat wolfy vibes. Mostly cause of the wolfreads which come across as a hasty mini-PoE, and cause I'm secretly hoping that the T-T interpretation is TMI and aligns with mine.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:35 pm Neat, Mac is town

Achro town

Lucy W

Sabi W

Sabi I am likely to flippy floppy on.

Seanzie stuck out cause he gave me the impression overall of being a head periodically emerging from the ground to drop off the spiciest and most impetuous take of the moment with little regard for its validity. I don't know how I should classify that strategy yet.
Tommy feeling a bit overwhelmed? I'd guess, not really a lot of oomph in the posts but I suppose that could be townie.

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:41 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:37 pm Did someone say it was time for a wolfy pop in

I have an exceedingly hard time seeing Nanook as town here. Wish I could claim to have had a correct on him before (tops once).
I give it higher odds that the Porscha wagon of Achro, Dizzy, me is pure (duh) compared to the matt wagon with Nanook initiating clutch position #3 for the case that Porscha is mafia.

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:49 pm Tommy*, not matt

Nooks ISO also rather wolfy.

So Nook, Lucy, Porscha, DrWilgy in current PoE

More undecided between Lucy and DrWilgy because of Tommy wagon

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:04 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:53 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:49 pm Tommy*, not matt

Nooks ISO also rather wolfy.

So Nook, Lucy, Porscha, DrWilgy in current PoE

More undecided between Lucy and DrWilgy because of Tommy wagon

Ic ic if you drop wilgy and add axe we have a pretty similar world view. Thoughts on axe's explanation of not voting porscha? Felt pretty bad. What's your issue with wilgy?

Axes filter is certainly cryptic. Don't really get the movie references and don't even think they made that many different movies of Pirates OTC. But maybe I'll get it another time.
He's consistent in sheeping MacDougall, explains some Mac-Sean history.
Tone overall reads good to me.

I think I'd townlean this at least for D1 because he semi-freely gave information.
I might join him on that and go matt here.

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:06 pm Tommy*, not Matt again.
I'm fried and have been using that name a lot lately
And something about the name tommy being fleeting to me at the moment maybe.

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:23 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:07 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:04 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:53 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:49 pm Tommy*, not matt

Nooks ISO also rather wolfy.

So Nook, Lucy, Porscha, DrWilgy in current PoE

More undecided between Lucy and DrWilgy because of Tommy wagon

Ic ic if you drop wilgy and add axe we have a pretty similar world view. Thoughts on axe's explanation of not voting porscha? Felt pretty bad. What's your issue with wilgy?

Axes filter is certainly cryptic. Don't really get the movie references and don't even think they made that many different movies of Pirates OTC. But maybe I'll get it another time.
He's consistent in sheeping MacDougall, explains some Mac-Sean history.
Tone overall reads good to me.

I think I'd townlean this at least for D1 because he semi-freely gave information.
I might join him on that and go matt here.

So, just so I understand correctly.

You think it is a better chance of a hit to vote the first time FM player who is, by account of someone who knows them, outside of both their normal town AND wolf metas and has openly displayed issues with the FM format day one versus someone who by all accounts went from having a null read on Mac to having a big town read on them without showing any of their work at all.

Why do you think Tommy has even above a random chance of being a wolf atm?

Lucys story on tommy changed or at least was alterated (in spoilers), so it's not really a first time FM player. Just here for the first time, asking really outlandish stuff at times
At first glance the story change made Lucy look like possible mafia to me along with some associative stuff I can probably bin now.
I'd just say I'd go past appereances here, maybe expect Nanook to have placed a juicy bus vote instead of saving Porscha, and vote the tommy wagon.

Spoiler: show

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:10 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:07 pm

Tommy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:02 pmHi

Are you duskfall

nah, he's completely new here, from my community

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:21 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:18 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:17 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:14 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:13 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:10 pm

Perfect. Then we can deduce by Lucy's testimony that Tommy is not in their wolf meta and their absence is firmly NAI and can we dispell the notion he is frozen. So lets be patient with him, it costs us little and undue pressure causes town members to crack as well.

not talking is indeed NAI, but i’m extremely wary of them not talking

If it is NAI why be wary? Why do you have ptsd from them?

it’s directly making me unable to read them, and they’re the same strength as me who has fooled me a bunch of times. played with them for 2 years straight in all my games

Seems they are a stronger player than you then. Have you ever faced them as wolf when they are town? If so how did that go.

i’ve played 40+ games with them easily, every combination and multiple of those, sometimes good and sometimes bad. it’s an ongoing debate between who’s better

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:34 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:29 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:23 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:07 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:04 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:53 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:49 pm Tommy*, not matt

Nooks ISO also rather wolfy.

So Nook, Lucy, Porscha, DrWilgy in current PoE

More undecided between Lucy and DrWilgy because of Tommy wagon

Ic ic if you drop wilgy and add axe we have a pretty similar world view. Thoughts on axe's explanation of not voting porscha? Felt pretty bad. What's your issue with wilgy?

Axes filter is certainly cryptic. Don't really get the movie references and don't even think they made that many different movies of Pirates OTC. But maybe I'll get it another time.
He's consistent in sheeping MacDougall, explains some Mac-Sean history.
Tone overall reads good to me.

I think I'd townlean this at least for D1 because he semi-freely gave information.
I might join him on that and go matt here.

So, just so I understand correctly.

You think it is a better chance of a hit to vote the first time FM player who is, by account of someone who knows them, outside of both their normal town AND wolf metas and has openly displayed issues with the FM format day one versus someone who by all accounts went from having a null read on Mac to having a big town read on them without showing any of their work at all.

Why do you think Tommy has even above a random chance of being a wolf atm?

Lucys story on tommy changed or at least was alterated (in spoilers), so it's not really a first time FM player. Just here for the first time, asking really outlandish stuff at times
At first glance the story change made Lucy look like possible mafia to me along with some associative stuff I can probably bin now.
I'd just say I'd go past appereances here, maybe expect Nanook to have placed a juicy bus vote instead of saving Porscha, and vote the tommy wagon.

Spoiler: show

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:10 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:07 pm

Tommy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:02 pmHi

Are you duskfall

nah, he's completely new here, from my community

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:21 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:18 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:17 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:14 pm

If it is NAI why be wary? Why do you have ptsd from them?

it’s directly making me unable to read them, and they’re the same strength as me who has fooled me a bunch of times. played with them for 2 years straight in all my games

Seems they are a stronger player than you then. Have you ever faced them as wolf when they are town? If so how did that go.

i’ve played 40+ games with them easily, every combination and multiple of those, sometimes good and sometimes bad. it’s an ongoing debate between who’s better

wdym my story change

Sorry, I worded it badly. Meant to say that your first post didn't tell as much as it could with the information on tommy you already had compared to the later post, which came across as W.

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:43 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:37 pm Don't think I'm needed atm so peace be with you all xoxo

What's up, what's your solve?

Achro defending Tommy here irks me a bit

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:01 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:52 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:43 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:37 pm Don't think I'm needed atm so peace be with you all xoxo

What's up, what's your solve?

Achro defending Tommy here irks me a bit

From my post:

Need to read achro thoughts with a better head space because long posts are a struggle atm.

From what I read it feels like a natural progression from OK Tommy is bad, Lucy lied, to once he found out about discord community is like to someone that is giving Tommy a day 1 pass. Is it due to trying to earn good will and try gain favor from Tommy, maybe. Is it due to him trying to be welcoming to fm for a new person, maybe.

But I kinda do agree with achro that Tommy should get a d1 pass since it's his first forum game.

I also dunno why you singled me out. Anyway what are your thoughts

2 years of discord experience. Feh, to free pass or not to free pass. I mean, for every free pass someone still has to go over, unless we vote for no elimination, which I'm not necessarily opposed to. Tommy can still post until DL right?
Singled you out cause I saw frustration in your exiting post and wanted to help you contribute.

My thoughts are that I should check if you and Achro have brought this up to other people on the tommy wagon, like McDougall, and not just me.

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:18 pm I think the vote on Sean is a bit meh from Kuti. Not really that effective but cares about not getting tommy launched. Achro on the other hand votes Porscha, has a more plausible agenda here by being on a feasible counterwagon, but I don't trust them to be town as I did earlier (to preserve some sanity probably).

I mean sure, let's skip tommy for freepass reasons if you insist, but then we should probably discuss if one-two mafias aren't sitting on the Porscha wagon atm.

And if not, what that makes Rondo and Sabi.

Vivax wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:12 pm So Achro and Kuti were trying to lull me out of the Tommy SR. I won't make an alignment read into that.
I guess I'll tackle the Rondo mistery again today.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:01 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:00 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:51 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:47 am ender is the wolf

You think so or is this a joke I have been told I am bad at this so I don't want to get my hopes up

Why do you want to get your hopes up about me being wolf when you:

1. Agree with some points I make (See Sabi)

2. Have apparently townread me off my solving of you on D1?

Sir I am voting you.

(Wolves can make valid points. There are 12 town alive you can't sus them all d2)

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:58 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:57 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:47 am ender is the wolf

sorry for your rand [VOTE: Ender ] aubergine

Who next if?

W Ender: Doesn't exist

V Ender: Follow my POE

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:51 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:47 am ender is the wolf

You think so or is this a joke I have been told I am bad at this so I don't want to get my hopes up

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:54 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:30 am Alright caught up.

I have several things in my head around people.

I actively don't want wagons on the following:
Lucy
Dizzy
Rondo
Axe
Nanook
Mac
Sabi

Yes, for all the above I don't think they have enough wolf equity for me to be interested.

Lemme group the rest into the vague gut feelings I have for where I'd place them:

Dr Wilgy
Porscha
Stupid Sexy Flanders
--- I don't think both wolves are above this line, but quite possibly one.

Achromatic
Seanzie
Vivax

if you had to put yourself in one of the bottom groups which one are you in?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:47 am ender is the wolf

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:32 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:31 am What are some things you believe are out of this in theory wolf achro?

Out of range*

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:28 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:26 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:14 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:12 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:09 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:06 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:04 pm

I'm trying to engage sabi and get answers from her. You are interjecting and disrupting the process and it is hindering my process. Can't you just observe for a time? What is the harm of asking you to stop?

Have you considered that me observing and not being in the mix hinders my process? My last request was for a scum game to view which effectively quiets me for awhile.

We all have processes is all I am saying.

I'd give you a scumgame to read if I had one to give you. But you calling my bluff there is just giving her an out.

She admitted she does it anyway. So my bluff worked. You don't need a link now. Because she confirmed it herself.

I flat out didn't even think it was a bluff lol x(

You fooled me. I was being sincere.

Does wolf Archo antagonise town leader this much? I am handing out a Lucy level tinfoil town read

I mean.

Achro undermining town leader's attempts to sort contention slots is actively something I could see wolf!Achro doing.

Source?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:14 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:12 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:09 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:06 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:04 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:00 pm You're not the main character of this game Mac despite being very good I would advise not telling others to quit playing a game we all signed up for.

I'm trying to engage sabi and get answers from her. You are interjecting and disrupting the process and it is hindering my process. Can't you just observe for a time? What is the harm of asking you to stop?

Have you considered that me observing and not being in the mix hinders my process? My last request was for a scum game to view which effectively quiets me for awhile.

We all have processes is all I am saying.

I'd give you a scumgame to read if I had one to give you. But you calling my bluff there is just giving her an out.

She admitted she does it anyway. So my bluff worked. You don't need a link now. Because she confirmed it herself.

I flat out didn't even think it was a bluff lol x(

You fooled me. I was being sincere.

Does wolf Archo antagonise town leader this much? I am handing out a Lucy level tinfoil town read

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:22 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:17 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:21 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:19 pm I don't think Seanzie has been townie today and he's fooled me before with play like he had on d1.

I have him as a very slight town lean and welcome discussion on him.

Seeing his last scum game and this one is mega tier yikes of wanting to touch that any time soon tbh. That was super polarizing.

It's not like lock stock and bury it but I don't see a reason to be suspicious outright atm.

That last game was more outlier than anything. Seanzie can be afk wolf but also can post and can provide content.

More recently I've seen more low effort wolf games but I would never count him out of being able to do minimal town!Seanzie posting.

you're scumreading Seanzie right?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:21 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:19 pm I don't think Seanzie has been townie today and he's fooled me before with play like he had on d1.

I have him as a very slight town lean and welcome discussion on him.

Seeing his last scum game and this one is mega tier yikes of wanting to touch that any time soon tbh. That was super polarizing.

It's not like lock stock and bury it but I don't see a reason to be suspicious outright atm.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:12 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:09 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:01 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:43 pm I hear that a lot. Here, I'll be gentle @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:26 pm Time to read day 1 Achro and why I felt good about Seanzie because I am reaching critical mass on town reads.

Ah, I thought they were fearless in going against people's wishes day 1 which I strongly read as v. I noted that they suggested Tommy get an avatar for whatever that's worth. Them thinking me saying "Seanzie didn't give a fuck" was a uncaring read and not a 'I think Seanzie is fearless' read I tend to lean town on as well from past experience. Possible all of these things are NAI for them though I am sure people will tell me.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:04 pm Lol, Achromatic might be doing the thing, which means that if they flip wolf, I could probably give a game winning PoE just based off who doesn't know me well.

This does not have the vibe of someone who has a wolf partner doing absolutely nothing day one tbh. Feels in good spirits, confident.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:21 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:18 pm

Too bad.

Joking. I think he is treating me simiarly to how wolf!you treated town!Fext in Lost in Space or how wolf!me treated town!Gavial in Belzelbun the benign. In both cases, TMI along with someone who was posting extremely comfortably in thread that they weren't familiar with made it impossible for the wolf to even really try to imagine wolfcasing the townie.

Pretty complex line of suspicion on me for a wolf though. It's not clearing especially without me having any experience with them but it feels like they believe this genuinely to me.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:33 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:29 pm

The bolded is case in point for why you're annoying to deal with. You say things that aren't alignment indicative for anyone as though they are and let them guide you to irrational solves. You've just (as you point out) rarely had to contend with a rand where we are both town before. You are a recipient of good fortune and I am a victim of it.

Of course I understand the process. But you saying you're the best mac reader ever when you're the only one here that's wrong is asinine when I know you are going to reflect on this game later as another one you got me right in. Like I am pre eye-rolling at you for pointing this game out as another example of Seanzie's masterful mac read.

I'm not saying I am the best Mac reader ever, I'm saying I've been right on you pretty much every game we've played together.

Even right now though, I don't think you read my post close enough to see what my read of you currently is. What is my read of you, right now, Mac?

This also drips of pure town egotism.

Feels like a miss unless Seanzie's meta is very complicated and well disguised tbh.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I believe you. Can you begin to peak by taking a peak at my Dizzy thoughts and giving your impressions?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:00 pm So anyway now we get to Dizzy's handling of me which I find intentional and problematic. I think one of the reasons why I pushed back hard against Mac saying I have an omgus problem is because as an egocentric player how I interact with others is important to me. So when Dizzy interacts with me in a way that raises my suspicion I don't think that's OMGUS, I think it's a valid concern not to be handwaved away.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:36 am Last bit of super relevant contribution I have is that I kind of want Achro to be mafia, and I've felt the same tingling in pretty much any game I've spectated and played with him. Some players just have that aura, I think. Have the same with Arete tbh. All this not to state a read on him, I just felt myself wanting to mafia lean on him for litterally no reason, and I'm not going to. But he could still be mafia =p

For someone self-aware of how they view me they sure did trip down into wolf reading me pretty quick lol. I find this funny more than anything.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:30 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:38 pm
Dyslexicon is in my SR's

But like why tho

You don't know me at all. As far as I know, I've never played with you. I had hardly began to even play this game, and you've mentioned a couple of times being suspicious of me. I know you said gut, but even that has to come from somewhere, or no? Genuinely curious

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:54 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:49 pmWhat does "and with a > rand mafia who do it" mean? I saw Mac post >rand mafia earlier. I'm afraid the use of ( <greater than / less than> ) symbols confuses me in this instance. I'm in a few keeper leagues and we use the <> in trade talks.

A decent portion of people who don't know anything about me and that are wolves tend to shade me, because apparently I have resting target face. But I find people who don't know me and are town also does this, so I probably shouldn't read more into it. Anyway, thanks for answering about why you were suspicious. I do find your reasoning quite absurd tbh, but I'm not one to talk because I'm sure people will find some of my reasoning for reads absurd at points too. In fact, most of what makes us read people as this or that is probably absurd, which is why mafia is a stupid game. But I like stupid.

Carry on carrying on. As for reading me, I would advice to listen to people who know me well. Or don't =p

I just wanted to note this but I feel as if a lot of wolves add small nervous ticks to their posts when interacting with people. This is what I call a 'stupid tell to go off of but its way above rand so here we are' In this case the "Genuinely curious" pinged the shit out of me. As did "or don't." To be clear, not analytical in the slightest and 100% pure ping.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:46 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:39 pmOh let's see here, did I miss the context of a conversation?

Ah, I did in fact miss the word 'else' in the first post and missed the TL on Mac. Not nearly as tall of a leap as I thought before, although the phrasing is still pretty strong.

So how sure are you folks of this Mac person's town and wolf ranges because geesh.

It also seems like you didn't really check back carefully to see if Porscha was in fact town reading Mac. But I might get ahead of myself, cause I don't even think it's that unlikely that Porscha is mafia here

So I feel as if this is a start of a trend I will highlight where I feel as if Dizzy is treating me very intentionally. Dizzy is saying I didn't check back carefully on Porscha and is implying this is a scum tell for me.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:04 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:00 pm

I dont know his range, but a question. Do you think he as town is likely to not check up on Porscha's read progression of him before casting suspicion? ;o. You pointing that out was a bit of a red flag for Mac for me since that was his only point of suspecting Porscha there whereas it was a secondary one for me.

I mean, I think that this particular point against Porscha was kind of weak to begin with. But yes, I do think Mac can jump on things or jump to conclusions. I don't really read him off of that though. I read him off of energy and whether I feel like what he's saying is just fake as fuck, which is what he feels like when he's mafia. It's a pretty noticeable difference to my memory. Egg on my face etc etc, but I think Mac believes what he says here basically.

When Mac is similarly sloppy, it's NAI, when Achromatic does it, it's suspicious. For someone who is pinged by me treating players doing similar things differently this is a strange take to have. No problem with the Mac part of this, but contrasting this with Dizzy's treatment of me feels like Dizzy was looking for a reason to scum read me rather than developing one naturally. @Dyslexicon do you have game experience with me that would lead you to believe I am more prone to sloppy case work as wolf? If so please cite the game.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:32 pm

Tommy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:46 pm

Omg. How active am I supposed to be. I talked yesterday and kept up with chat. I just finished reading what I missed

I don't know any of your takes or if you have takes on the game or alignments. I know it's hard when everyone and everything is new, but anything you can give in terms of impressions of other players would be helpful at this point. It doesn't have to be in any specific way. Don't think, just speak is my advice

@MacDougall we briefly mentioned possible in thread coaching by Lucy earlier. This gave off the possible same vibes to me.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:34 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:07 pm

So, just so I understand correctly.

You think it is a better chance of a hit to vote the first time FM player who is, by account of someone who knows them, outside of both their normal town AND wolf metas and has openly displayed issues with the FM format day one versus someone who by all accounts went from having a null read on Mac to having a big town read on them without showing any of their work at all.

Why do you think Tommy has even above a random chance of being a wolf atm?

Do you think Tommy is exact rand here?

Also, early game you mentioned how you'd just chop me if I had low WIM. Does this not apply to Tommy, who is arguably the one giving the least this game?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:02 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:49 pm

Oh, sure.

So you are a well established player who if I put the screws to you in some form or fashion will have a relatively known range of reactions for everyone to judge you on and to attempt to divine your alignment. If you are slacking off and suddenly under a microscope that's probably going to yield information that can be read by people.

Tommy, on the other hand, is an unknown quantity and to my eye hasn't really done anything noteworthy one way or another. This is not ideal, however with their stated dislike of FM so far as well as their noted inexperience it doesn't make them very formidable wolves down the line in the 'people are right he is wolf' even if I think it is for dubious reasons. likewise, because he is inexperienced, there is a large chance he becomes polarized when he does get his teeth into the game and we can proceed more appropriately.

Trying to say Tommy is the best lynch today is like ordering your steak well done. Technically it is a thing you can do, but why?

So you wanting to put the microscope on me, so to say, would be a way to gain reactions and info out of me? Is that correct? In which case, don't count on it. Slacking is something I do from time to time, depending on time. I didn't think I would have the time to read D1 this game, but I took the time now.

Do you also not think that putting the microscope on Tommy can yield information? Also, I'm not sure why you necessarily expect him to become more clear later on, as he is for everyone but Lucy and unknown entity. And thus far he hasn't really shown any interest in contributing a whole lot or FM at all, as you allude to. Why do you expect this to change later on? I hope it does, but what if it doesn't.

Funny thing is that giving more time is something I could argue for Porscha, exactly because I do know her at least a little bit, and I've been able to find her as town in the few games I've played with her to my memory.

So I guess I just see this differently than you do.

I also don't eat meat.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:10 pm I think I talked myself into

[VOTE: Tommy] aubergine

So I think the interesting thing about this is, to me, it feels really bussy. At this point we have an entire day to go and plenty of time to get information from both Porscha and Tommy but so soon after giving Tommy advice Dizzy is like "actually nah" and tosses the vote. Now, for town equity here maybe I gave Dizzy a new perspective on Porscha which is a fine thing except that today Dizzy was just right back on Porscha which doesn't exactly line up with a new perspective and wait and see approach. However maybe they are just impatient as town, which I could see.

Then day 2 rolls around and Dizzy beelines straight for me with the only possible speed bump of Porscha being a possible wolf.

So I guess the world view where Dizzy is town is easily findable despite me not liking several things. It's just Dizzy deciding I was a wolf and going on a great adventure to slay me before much had really happened, which I have seen plenty.

So I'd like people to comment on if the above posts are NAI or even pro town for Dizzy and if they think the way they treated me was scummy or just an average day for Dizzy.

To Dizzy, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the game state atm when you can. Especially Porscha and myself. Do you believe Porscha's wolf equity is strong? What about mine? What caused you to move on to Wilgy?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:26 am Probably better if I break different strings of thought into different posts as to not create a wall of death, which I think are prone to being glossed over.

First, let me discuss Dizzy and Sabi which pinged me immediately when Dizzy said this day 2:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:14 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:09 pm

Have I been evicted from ur pocket

I thought about you but didn’t write you down. To be honest I exaggerated my town read on you D1. But you’re very likely town still and we’re still friends

Bold and resizing are mine, I am a scrub who can't figure out color coding very well lol

So let's go over Dizzy's Sabi progression day one:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:44 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:43 am

Man Sabi is such obvtown.

100 % this

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:14 am I haven't really read the game, and I'm probably not going to for a while, so enjoy that.

I have Sabi and Mac as town. These are both vibes and what kind of energy they are bringing. Mac is more based in meta, which I do think I have at least a decent track record of picking up on. For Sabi, I just liked their start and their impatience, them talking about wanting to do better. So there are my friends now. Will see if that turns out good or not.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:54 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:43 pmI've had a near 100% mac read since I joined TS, and I know for a fact that he is not a fan of wolfing against me. I had posted, multiple times at that point, and due to not necessarily wanting my attention as a wolf, I think he would be more likely to wager an early guess at my alignment there as town than as wolf.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:15 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:03 pm

I've been toying with the idea that you're bad, yeah.

Mac I felt pretty confident about off very little information, and no longer feel much of anything, but I trust my early gut reactions enough to not write the read off. Sabi I never actually scumread, I just pushed there because I thought Mac was scum and I think Sabi or Mac did something that made me question if they were partners, so I decided to push there just to see if Sabi would just obvout as a wolf with Mac. They didn't, so I am no longer pushing there, even though I am kind of personally irked by how they've acted about me pushing them and they keep saying I'm "confbiasing" when really I think they're accusing me of scumreading them because of personal out-of-game things (that don't exist from my side, but I get how sometimes other people see other things so meh... I get it even if I don't think it is there), not confbiasing, and instead of considering the fact that I might actually just be playing the game and trying to figure out why I might be pushing them, they've decided to just assume they know me and have said they will just ignore me.

You can't scum read me, I already have the Ender phseal of approval gg

I get what irked you about the situation. Beyond that, I feel like Sabi felt townie both in that interaction, but especially just early game. She feels curious about the game. I have also known her to react emotionally (as we all do sometimes, and is natural in a game of mafia) on other occasions.

I like Mac on vibe and I like Mac on direction

Can I ask who you think are mafia if Mac is not mafia?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:56 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:54 pm Shocked and saddened Mac and dizzy didn't want to flirt with me

Let's just do it in our mason chat tbh

So some of the bold especially leap off to me as incredibly nuanced for someone who walks into day 2 claiming to Sabi 'I exaggerated.' Especially in the context of Ender and Vivas who Dizzy did not appear to spend nearly as much time openly defending their world view on (although they did post positively about both, which I covered last post). Like, there's nothing suspicious about just forgetting to put Sabi in one of your town reads - we all forget - but the 'coverup' here doesn't pass the smell test to me because I thought Dizzy day 1 was giving nuanced, good takes on why Sabi was a strong town read. Sure, maybe it isn't 100% and that's not a problem, but it really bugs me and it is why I am very confident that Dizzy/Sabi weren't aligned ;o

Reposting for the third time some extended seanzie and dizzy thoughts since I got a notification that there is a mix up on my issue with Dizzy.

Breaking down this post, I honestly think your issues come down to:

1. Nitpicking in how people type. Which I'll admit is a thing I can use too but is also part of how I misvoted Dizzy in our first game together.
2. Finding issue how they talked about Porscha, which is a scumread they obviously felt reticent about given how they backed off it after talking themselves into Tommy.
3. Your belief that the D1 read in Sabi was exaggeration, which I can tell you was something I read in their tone.

I can see this being the case. With only two wolves to find ivmight be squinting too hard. But for 2 to be true why do they suspect porscha asap day w and say it is likely a hit and unvote me?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:11 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:57 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:56 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:56 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:55 pm how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

sexually

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:58 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:56 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:56 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:55 pm how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

Sorry Ender Rondo outed u guys as lovers.

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:09 am who is more logical between you? (ik rondo is more sporadic lol)

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:08 am I feel as if one liners are more easily explained away as jokes (hard for me to judge text tone but 100%, 'trying to get you n1'd were obvious jokes sure) but dizzy saying multiple times they had town reads on sabi and Mac and defending that sabi read in particular didn't feel as if they were unsure of it.

I do appreciate you directly discussing it with me enders because that was the point of me bringing it up and I have failed to get traction of at least discussing it in a way that I find satisfactory.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:01 am

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:43 pm I hear that a lot. Here, I'll be gentle @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:26 pm Time to read day 1 Achro and why I felt good about Seanzie because I am reaching critical mass on town reads.

Ah, I thought they were fearless in going against people's wishes day 1 which I strongly read as v. I noted that they suggested Tommy get an avatar for whatever that's worth. Them thinking me saying "Seanzie didn't give a fuck" was a uncaring read and not a 'I think Seanzie is fearless' read I tend to lean town on as well from past experience. Possible all of these things are NAI for them though I am sure people will tell me.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:04 pm Lol, Achromatic might be doing the thing, which means that if they flip wolf, I could probably give a game winning PoE just based off who doesn't know me well.

This does not have the vibe of someone who has a wolf partner doing absolutely nothing day one tbh. Feels in good spirits, confident.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:21 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:17 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:16 pm

Do you want to know the thing I am wary Achro is doing?

absolutely

Too bad.

Joking. I think he is treating me simiarly to how wolf!you treated town!Fext in Lost in Space or how wolf!me treated town!Gavial in Belzelbun the benign. In both cases, TMI along with someone who was posting extremely comfortably in thread that they weren't familiar with made it impossible for the wolf to even really try to imagine wolfcasing the townie.

Pretty complex line of suspicion on me for a wolf though. It's not clearing especially without me having any experience with them but it feels like they believe this genuinely to me.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:33 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:29 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:26 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:23 pm I'll further add that Seanzie is likely to eventually realise that his initial scumread on me in this game was bogus and then he'll file this game under one where he read me correctly, forgetting that he demonstrably read me poorly in it and it'll further heighten his perception of his quality of reading me without even factoring in that he'll be last to get there on the most obvious town version of me and has demonstrated the worst ability to read me of everyone in this game including randoms like Flanders, Vivax and Rondo.

Yes, if by the end of today I townread you, I will consider that a correct sort.

As someone who is similar to me in which I feel you feel people's alignments out by interacting with them and often pushing them before actually fully internally committing one way or the other, I'd expect you to understand the process.

You seem awfully worried about my claim about how well I read you.

The bolded is case in point for why you're annoying to deal with. You say things that aren't alignment indicative for anyone as though they are and let them guide you to irrational solves. You've just (as you point out) rarely had to contend with a rand where we are both town before. You are a recipient of good fortune and I am a victim of it.

Of course I understand the process. But you saying you're the best mac reader ever when you're the only one here that's wrong is asinine when I know you are going to reflect on this game later as another one you got me right in. Like I am pre eye-rolling at you for pointing this game out as another example of Seanzie's masterful mac read.

I'm not saying I am the best Mac reader ever, I'm saying I've been right on you pretty much every game we've played together.

Even right now though, I don't think you read my post close enough to see what my read of you currently is. What is my read of you, right now, Mac?

This also drips of pure town egotism.

Feels like a miss unless Seanzie's meta is very complicated and well disguised tbh.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I believe you. Can you begin to peak by taking a peak at my Dizzy thoughts and giving your impressions?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:00 pm So anyway now we get to Dizzy's handling of me which I find intentional and problematic. I think one of the reasons why I pushed back hard against Mac saying I have an omgus problem is because as an egocentric player how I interact with others is important to me. So when Dizzy interacts with me in a way that raises my suspicion I don't think that's OMGUS, I think it's a valid concern not to be handwaved away.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:36 am Last bit of super relevant contribution I have is that I kind of want Achro to be mafia, and I've felt the same tingling in pretty much any game I've spectated and played with him. Some players just have that aura, I think. Have the same with Arete tbh. All this not to state a read on him, I just felt myself wanting to mafia lean on him for litterally no reason, and I'm not going to. But he could still be mafia =p

For someone self-aware of how they view me they sure did trip down into wolf reading me pretty quick lol. I find this funny more than anything.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:30 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:38 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:25 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:24 pm Not a huge fan of the players on her wagon tbh. Feels weird

Which players are pinging you

Dyslexicon is in my SR's

But like why tho

You don't know me at all. As far as I know, I've never played with you. I had hardly began to even play this game, and you've mentioned a couple of times being suspicious of me. I know you said gut, but even that has to come from somewhere, or no? Genuinely curious

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:54 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:49 pmWhat does "and with a > rand mafia who do it" mean? I saw Mac post >rand mafia earlier. I'm afraid the use of ( <greater than / less than> ) symbols confuses me in this instance. I'm in a few keeper leagues and we use the <> in trade talks.

A decent portion of people who don't know anything about me and that are wolves tend to shade me, because apparently I have resting target face. But I find people who don't know me and are town also does this, so I probably shouldn't read more into it. Anyway, thanks for answering about why you were suspicious. I do find your reasoning quite absurd tbh, but I'm not one to talk because I'm sure people will find some of my reasoning for reads absurd at points too. In fact, most of what makes us read people as this or that is probably absurd, which is why mafia is a stupid game. But I like stupid.

Carry on carrying on. As for reading me, I would advice to listen to people who know me well. Or don't =p

I just wanted to note this but I feel as if a lot of wolves add small nervous ticks to their posts when interacting with people. This is what I call a 'stupid tell to go off of but its way above rand so here we are' In this case the "Genuinely curious" pinged the shit out of me. As did "or don't." To be clear, not analytical in the slightest and 100% pure ping.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:46 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:39 pmOh let's see here, did I miss the context of a conversation?

Ah, I did in fact miss the word 'else' in the first post and missed the TL on Mac. Not nearly as tall of a leap as I thought before, although the phrasing is still pretty strong.

So how sure are you folks of this Mac person's town and wolf ranges because geesh.

It also seems like you didn't really check back carefully to see if Porscha was in fact town reading Mac. But I might get ahead of myself, cause I don't even think it's that unlikely that Porscha is mafia here

So I feel as if this is a start of a trend I will highlight where I feel as if Dizzy is treating me very intentionally. Dizzy is saying I didn't check back carefully on Porscha and is implying this is a scum tell for me.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:04 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:00 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:58 pm Like, I'm pretty sure Mac is town here. Or egg on my face.

I dont know his range, but a question. Do you think he as town is likely to not check up on Porscha's read progression of him before casting suspicion? ;o. You pointing that out was a bit of a red flag for Mac for me since that was his only point of suspecting Porscha there whereas it was a secondary one for me.

I mean, I think that this particular point against Porscha was kind of weak to begin with. But yes, I do think Mac can jump on things or jump to conclusions. I don't really read him off of that though. I read him off of energy and whether I feel like what he's saying is just fake as fuck, which is what he feels like when he's mafia. It's a pretty noticeable difference to my memory. Egg on my face etc etc, but I think Mac believes what he says here basically.

When Mac is similarly sloppy, it's NAI, when Achromatic does it, it's suspicious. For someone who is pinged by me treating players doing similar things differently this is a strange take to have. No problem with the Mac part of this, but contrasting this with Dizzy's treatment of me feels like Dizzy was looking for a reason to scum read me rather than developing one naturally. @Dyslexicon do you have game experience with me that would lead you to believe I am more prone to sloppy case work as wolf? If so please cite the game.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:32 pm

Tommy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:46 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:45 pm

Stupid Sexy Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:43 pm
If your home site is the only place they've played, there's bound to be a struggle to find their feet as either alignment, but I found the first games I played here, it was my homeboys pressuring me and essentially forcing my voice one way or another. A good townie who's familiar with a player from their homesite should be pushing that player to show, not coasting behind a wagon formed by players who don't know your homeboy.

I feel like you should be doing more than reserving judgement on someone you have history with because they don't fit either box you've built for them. Comes across as wolfy to me.

i’ve told them to talk more at least twice, since they are not then i can’t do much else

Omg. How active am I supposed to be. I talked yesterday and kept up with chat. I just finished reading what I missed

I don't know any of your takes or if you have takes on the game or alignments. I know it's hard when everyone and everything is new, but anything you can give in terms of impressions of other players would be helpful at this point. It doesn't have to be in any specific way. Don't think, just speak is my advice

@MacDougall we briefly mentioned possible in thread coaching by Lucy earlier. This gave off the possible same vibes to me.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:34 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:07 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:04 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:53 pm

Ic ic if you drop wilgy and add axe we have a pretty similar world view. Thoughts on axe's explanation of not voting porscha? Felt pretty bad. What's your issue with wilgy?

Axes filter is certainly cryptic. Don't really get the movie references and don't even think they made that many different movies of Pirates OTC. But maybe I'll get it another time.
He's consistent in sheeping MacDougall, explains some Mac-Sean history.
Tone overall reads good to me.

I think I'd townlean this at least for D1 because he semi-freely gave information.
I might join him on that and go matt here.

So, just so I understand correctly.

You think it is a better chance of a hit to vote the first time FM player who is, by account of someone who knows them, outside of both their normal town AND wolf metas and has openly displayed issues with the FM format day one versus someone who by all accounts went from having a null read on Mac to having a big town read on them without showing any of their work at all.

Why do you think Tommy has even above a random chance of being a wolf atm?

Do you think Tommy is exact rand here?

Also, early game you mentioned how you'd just chop me if I had low WIM. Does this not apply to Tommy, who is arguably the one giving the least this game?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:02 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:49 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:43 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:41 pm

Do I need to explain the difference between a first time FM player and yourself?

Standards, wolf ranges, etc etc.

In this context, yeah I think you do

Oh, sure.

So you are a well established player who if I put the screws to you in some form or fashion will have a relatively known range of reactions for everyone to judge you on and to attempt to divine your alignment. If you are slacking off and suddenly under a microscope that's probably going to yield information that can be read by people.

Tommy, on the other hand, is an unknown quantity and to my eye hasn't really done anything noteworthy one way or another. This is not ideal, however with their stated dislike of FM so far as well as their noted inexperience it doesn't make them very formidable wolves down the line in the 'people are right he is wolf' even if I think it is for dubious reasons. likewise, because he is inexperienced, there is a large chance he becomes polarized when he does get his teeth into the game and we can proceed more appropriately.

Trying to say Tommy is the best lynch today is like ordering your steak well done. Technically it is a thing you can do, but why?

So you wanting to put the microscope on me, so to say, would be a way to gain reactions and info out of me? Is that correct? In which case, don't count on it. Slacking is something I do from time to time, depending on time. I didn't think I would have the time to read D1 this game, but I took the time now.

Do you also not think that putting the microscope on Tommy can yield information? Also, I'm not sure why you necessarily expect him to become more clear later on, as he is for everyone but Lucy and unknown entity. And thus far he hasn't really shown any interest in contributing a whole lot or FM at all, as you allude to. Why do you expect this to change later on? I hope it does, but what if it doesn't.

Funny thing is that giving more time is something I could argue for Porscha, exactly because I do know her at least a little bit, and I've been able to find her as town in the few games I've played with her to my memory.

So I guess I just see this differently than you do.

I also don't eat meat.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:10 pm I think I talked myself into

[VOTE: Tommy] aubergine

So I think the interesting thing about this is, to me, it feels really bussy. At this point we have an entire day to go and plenty of time to get information from both Porscha and Tommy but so soon after giving Tommy advice Dizzy is like "actually nah" and tosses the vote. Now, for town equity here maybe I gave Dizzy a new perspective on Porscha which is a fine thing except that today Dizzy was just right back on Porscha which doesn't exactly line up with a new perspective and wait and see approach. However maybe they are just impatient as town, which I could see.

Then day 2 rolls around and Dizzy beelines straight for me with the only possible speed bump of Porscha being a possible wolf.

So I guess the world view where Dizzy is town is easily findable despite me not liking several things. It's just Dizzy deciding I was a wolf and going on a great adventure to slay me before much had really happened, which I have seen plenty.

So I'd like people to comment on if the above posts are NAI or even pro town for Dizzy and if they think the way they treated me was scummy or just an average day for Dizzy.

To Dizzy, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the game state atm when you can. Especially Porscha and myself. Do you believe Porscha's wolf equity is strong? What about mine? What caused you to move on to Wilgy?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:26 am Probably better if I break different strings of thought into different posts as to not create a wall of death, which I think are prone to being glossed over.

First, let me discuss Dizzy and Sabi which pinged me immediately when Dizzy said this day 2:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:14 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:09 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:09 pm I like Mac, Ender and Vivax for town. Strongest feelings

Have I been evicted from ur pocket

I thought about you but didn’t write you down. To be honest I exaggerated my town read on you D1. But you’re very likely town still and we’re still friends

Bold and resizing are mine, I am a scrub who can't figure out color coding very well lol

So let's go over Dizzy's Sabi progression day one:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:44 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:43 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:09 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:08 pm

You really want me n1ed lol

My sole goal for this game!

Man Sabi is such obvtown.

100 % this

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:14 am I haven't really read the game, and I'm probably not going to for a while, so enjoy that.

I have Sabi and Mac as town. These are both vibes and what kind of energy they are bringing. Mac is more based in meta, which I do think I have at least a decent track record of picking up on. For Sabi, I just liked their start and their impatience, them talking about wanting to do better. So there are my friends now. Will see if that turns out good or not.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:54 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:43 pmI've had a near 100% mac read since I joined TS, and I know for a fact that he is not a fan of wolfing against me. I had posted, multiple times at that point, and due to not necessarily wanting my attention as a wolf, I think he would be more likely to wager an early guess at my alignment there as town than as wolf.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:15 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:03 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:54 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:43 pmI've had a near 100% mac read since I joined TS, and I know for a fact that he is not a fan of wolfing against me. I had posted, multiple times at that point, and due to not necessarily wanting my attention as a wolf, I think he would be more likely to wager an early guess at my alignment there as town than as wolf.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

I've been toying with the idea that you're bad, yeah.

Mac I felt pretty confident about off very little information, and no longer feel much of anything, but I trust my early gut reactions enough to not write the read off. Sabi I never actually scumread, I just pushed there because I thought Mac was scum and I think Sabi or Mac did something that made me question if they were partners, so I decided to push there just to see if Sabi would just obvout as a wolf with Mac. They didn't, so I am no longer pushing there, even though I am kind of personally irked by how they've acted about me pushing them and they keep saying I'm "confbiasing" when really I think they're accusing me of scumreading them because of personal out-of-game things (that don't exist from my side, but I get how sometimes other people see other things so meh... I get it even if I don't think it is there), not confbiasing, and instead of considering the fact that I might actually just be playing the game and trying to figure out why I might be pushing them, they've decided to just assume they know me and have said they will just ignore me.

You can't scum read me, I already have the Ender phseal of approval gg

I get what irked you about the situation. Beyond that, I feel like Sabi felt townie both in that interaction, but especially just early game. She feels curious about the game. I have also known her to react emotionally (as we all do sometimes, and is natural in a game of mafia) on other occasions.

I like Mac on vibe and I like Mac on direction

Can I ask who you think are mafia if Mac is not mafia?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:56 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:54 pm Shocked and saddened Mac and dizzy didn't want to flirt with me

Let's just do it in our mason chat tbh

So some of the bold especially leap off to me as incredibly nuanced for someone who walks into day 2 claiming to Sabi 'I exaggerated.' Especially in the context of Ender and Vivas who Dizzy did not appear to spend nearly as much time openly defending their world view on (although they did post positively about both, which I covered last post). Like, there's nothing suspicious about just forgetting to put Sabi in one of your town reads - we all forget - but the 'coverup' here doesn't pass the smell test to me because I thought Dizzy day 1 was giving nuanced, good takes on why Sabi was a strong town read. Sure, maybe it isn't 100% and that's not a problem, but it really bugs me and it is why I am very confident that Dizzy/Sabi weren't aligned ;o

Reposting for the third time some extended seanzie and dizzy thoughts since I got a notification that there is a mix up on my issue with Dizzy.

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:00 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:58 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:56 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:56 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:55 pm how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

I'll ask one more question then, was it in school/school club etc or outside of school

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:12 pm Idk I have yet to see anyone actually tell me dizzy's back track of their day 1 read of sabi feels genuine from the post I highlighted earlier. Dizzy wasn't saying 'after the flip I feel worse' she was saying 'I exaggerated my day 1 read of you' which really doesn't feel like it fits when I iso'd her sabi points and feels like a perspective slip. I know I am at times insufferable and a one note drum but there are only two wolves left if I am right about one that's 50% of the game.

At the very least I would like more eyes on my case to tell me why I am mislooking.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:08 pm With the disclaimer that I haven't read 99% of posts in the thread, this is my list of optimal chops in no particular order (anyone off the list isn't viable for today):

Enderwiggin
Porscha
Achromatic
Vivax
DrWilgy

Each have pros and cons, and variable amounts of information potential.

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:56 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:56 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:55 pm how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:03 pm I'm mad at myself because everyone seems like they have a solid grasp at this game and I don't.

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:55 pm how long have you two known one another for

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:54 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:53 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:00 pm Just to be clear this isnt an OMOGUS vote. I genuinely think someone shouldnt be this unhappy in this thread state. I think Sabi is a hit. I could be wrong and I will sheep Mac if he tells me to move

...

Rondo.

What have I told you about emotive reads.

They are not alignment indicative and they are bad and I should feel bad

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:52 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:49 pm Like if your Dizzy case is "They haven't done much today" when their first post for the day was "I'm at a festival for today idk how much time I'll have"

Then you need to relearn scumhunting sorry I don't make the rules.

Are you saying there are 0 worlds where Dizzy is Scum or you really dont think they are? Because I am leaning towards the only world where you are wolf is if Dizzy is too.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:00 pm Just to be clear this isnt an OMOGUS vote. I genuinely think someone shouldnt be this unhappy in this thread state. I think Sabi is a hit. I could be wrong and I will sheep Mac if he tells me to move

Achromatic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:41 pm Pop quiz

Who has posted more content today dizzy or porscha