The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:08 pm Thanks for playing, everyone.

This setup has now produced a 2-0 town record. That's still a tiny sample, but I will ask the squad how they feel: did it strike you as balanced and fair?

Someone said earlier that a Day 1 double chop is townsided. That's true. It is townsided on purpose, because otherwise 8 vs. 2 mountainous may often be mafiasided. So this is meant to be one way of balancing the playing field. It remains an experiment though.

I think 8v2 is heavily mafia sided, but the moment you introduce polarized reads where someone like Alison can say I'm very confident X is town on day 1 locked in, the balance is completely thrown off. Small games suffer a disproportionate amount from easy reads.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:11 pm probably too town sided although fun tbh

double chops are extremely powerful for information.

Idk, from my pov, both mafia were in a PoE of ~3 or 4 from day 1. I don't think that's set up.

Also, the double kill became anti-town the moment Seanzie and Mac went at it.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:05 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:04 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:03 pm My annoyance at y'all fuckers hammering is actually somewhat unlike me.

Perhaps I shouldn't care, but this is two now...

I guess what I'm trying to say is, town plz stop.

I mean, it was a self-hammer.

Enabled by 3 others.

I guess maybe 2 of you could be wolves, but would ai believe that at first glance? Not really.

I mean, if you can't handle people voting you, you ought not be playing mafia?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:03 pm My annoyance at y'all fuckers hammering is actually somewhat unlike me.

Perhaps I shouldn't care, but this is two now...

I guess what I'm trying to say is, town plz stop.

I mean, it was a self-hammer.

Bye, good riddance.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:59 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:57 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:55 pm Let me vote for myself. Save yall selves

Go for it.

Empty threats

Not. Empty

All the better, I don't have time to give 2 shits about your AtE

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:59 pm Alright.

Y tho?

AtE drama queen.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:55 pm Let me vote for myself. Save yall selves

Go for it.

Empty threats

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:42 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:34 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:32 pm Look I don't mind killing the ppl Alison voted day 1 here and just losing if she was wrong. It's probably not an incorrect thing to do lol.

Yeah, I'm down for it, I think there's a decent chance it contains at least 1 mafia, and wilgy might be the other.

You have Falcon as town yeah?

My light town lean on Falcon is basically a lock town at the moment out of necessity given that none of the 3 people who died were people I wanted dead.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:32 pm Look I don't mind killing the ppl Alison voted day 1 here and just losing if she was wrong. It's probably not an incorrect thing to do lol.

Yeah, I'm down for it, I think there's a decent chance it contains at least 1 mafia, and wilgy might be the other.

Day 1 was everything I expect from a mafia the syndicate game, everybody shield Alison because of how valuable they are as town, and nobody vote with Alison because they prefer to follow their own gut reads.

Am I the only one that has noticed this as a problem?

Anyway... I'm inclined to give Mac a pass till final 3, but I likely snap him once there if we get there. I stand by my side votes, and tack on Alison's 2nd vote as my 3rd read, but I don't think we have the luxury of 3 kills do we?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:00 pm I'm hungry. What do I eat?

Lead

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:57 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:50 am The early game state was pretty chaotic and unproductive. It's not out of line at all for Mac to think this.

This is true of many & most games, and it's not a read of Mac's that I recall him using all that often...do you? We're talking about <24hr of thread activity, it feels like a forced reason for TRing Porscha

I find Mac to frequently say what's at the top of his mind with no regard to whether or not it's true or historically consistent... But I also agree that it's a reasonable statement, and my previous remark on Mac's play would indicate it's likely that he would have posted it if he thought it regardless if he had thought it in previous games or not.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine
[VOTE: Sabiplz] aubergine

unvote all around for me

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:03 am Okay so now I've established that both Axe and Alison are in fact town. Hooray.

TBH, we probably could have arrived at this without the last several pages, but it's hard for me to pull out of a fight when I'm enjoying it so much. LOL

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:50 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:48 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:46 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:44 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:42 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:39 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:37 am Why?

1) It is extremely bad for town to make those votes. Like if I had to pick three people to be my only votes all game and wanted to find the most anti town slots to put those votes on it would be that exact three.
2) NAA would know 1).
3) Therefore he would not make those votes as town.

1) The majority of the players in this game have voted for me at one point or another. I have also voted for seanzie along with several others. Also many people have voted you. Given at least several town have voted on all three of us at some point i think it's asinine to assume that it's beyond the town mindset to vote one of us three. I am beyond certain that if Axehole was/is town here that he would not be viewing voting you or me as anti town behaviour even if he fucken townread us!

This is literally why I am cannot reconcile you as town here.

Having one bad read means you made a mistake. Having nothing but bad reads probably means you are wolfing.

NAA falls into the latter category.

So you hold Axe's reads accuracy and commitment to pro-town play to a higher standard than Sabi and Falcon?

By a large margin. Maybe I wouldn't when I first met him but he has reformed and tries his best to win his games now. He is also has way better reads as town than Falcon and Sabi who are =rand and <rand respectively.

I'm going to leave Axe himself to be the judge of whether this is actually true or not.

Oh, the question was, do I think Alison believes this?

I think to some extent, yes.

Funnily enough, I think I'm far more pro-town when I don't talk about the game like the last 2 I've played on site, this game I've been decidedly anti-town so far

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:50 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:48 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:46 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:44 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:42 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:39 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:37 am Why?

1) It is extremely bad for town to make those votes. Like if I had to pick three people to be my only votes all game and wanted to find the most anti town slots to put those votes on it would be that exact three.
2) NAA would know 1).
3) Therefore he would not make those votes as town.

1) The majority of the players in this game have voted for me at one point or another. I have also voted for seanzie along with several others. Also many people have voted you. Given at least several town have voted on all three of us at some point i think it's asinine to assume that it's beyond the town mindset to vote one of us three. I am beyond certain that if Axehole was/is town here that he would not be viewing voting you or me as anti town behaviour even if he fucken townread us!

This is literally why I am cannot reconcile you as town here.

Having one bad read means you made a mistake. Having nothing but bad reads probably means you are wolfing.

NAA falls into the latter category.

So you hold Axe's reads accuracy and commitment to pro-town play to a higher standard than Sabi and Falcon?

By a large margin. Maybe I wouldn't when I first met him but he has reformed and tries his best to win his games now. He is also has way better reads as town than Falcon and Sabi who are =rand and <rand respectively.

I'm going to leave Axe himself to be the judge of whether this is actually true or not.

Read accuracy is a lot more complicated than people give it credit for, because it's hard to understand the exact nuance of it when you're playing a game of deception... Like, is it all about the end result, is it close like hand grenades, is it all or nothing?

Has my presence in recent games been heavily pro-town? I would say yes. Has my read accuracy been great? I would say no - but I've heard people define players (myself included) as having good games when I'm like... Nah, it's all or nothing, because in mafia if you're a PoE player, being off by 1 is a L.

All that to say, I actually think Alison is town here and I think I'm unfairly judging her on a bad read that I myself am the cause of. That being said, it's really fucking late here.

Gimme some of whatever you're smoking.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:46 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:45 am Having nothing but bad reads probably means you are wolfing.

Specifically this part.

My reads are good. Yours aren't.

LEL

Having nothing but bad reads probably means you are wolfing.

Specifically this part.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:44 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:42 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:39 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:37 am Why?

1) It is extremely bad for town to make those votes. Like if I had to pick three people to be my only votes all game and wanted to find the most anti town slots to put those votes on it would be that exact three.
2) NAA would know 1).
3) Therefore he would not make those votes as town.

1) The majority of the players in this game have voted for me at one point or another. I have also voted for seanzie along with several others. Also many people have voted you. Given at least several town have voted on all three of us at some point i think it's asinine to assume that it's beyond the town mindset to vote one of us three. I am beyond certain that if Axehole was/is town here that he would not be viewing voting you or me as anti town behaviour even if he fucken townread us!

This is literally why I am cannot reconcile you as town here.

Having one bad read means you made a mistake. Having nothing but bad reads probably means you are wolfing.

NAA falls into the latter category.

@lucy See, Alison agrees that you should vote her with me.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:43 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:41 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:39 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:37 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 am she should not die

snooze cruise

something something my reads are better than Alison's

I don't understand how you and mac are giving the reason why Alison should die and not killing her for it.

When does day end? Is it in 5 minutes?

I mean, Lucy outright said she wouldn't kill Alison and you've maintained a town read on Alison through much of the questioning (albeit wavering)

I'm anti-town for having the most logical reaction to bad Alison D1?

I reacted to Alison's reads when she came into the thread and how limp they were, many people have also called out the reads as being bad, BUT I'M CRAZY for voting ALISON?

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:41 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:41 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:39 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:37 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 am she should not die

snooze cruise

something something my reads are better than Alison's

I don't understand how you and mac are giving the reason why Alison should die and not killing her for it.

that wasn't a reason to blast her lmao

I mean, if meta is any indication, yes it is...

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:39 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:37 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 am she should not die

snooze cruise

something something my reads are better than Alison's

I don't understand how you and mac are giving the reason why Alison should die and not killing her for it.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:38 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:36 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:34 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:33 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:31 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:30 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:29 am
Get this through your head. No aspect of my meta knowledge of NAA has led me to believe that he would do these things as town. If anything my meta on NAA directly indicates he is scum because he is usually careful to put his vote on a position that helps him the most and here he is flagrantly abusing it towards anti town ends.

Do what things?

Vote me, you and Seanzie.

So, are Mac and Falcon also anti-town? And Seanzie, he's voting Mac?

straw man

I'm just trying to understand how bloated Alison's head is to think that the holy ground she walks on can't be touched.

About 5 minutes ago I was thinking "we're just about at the point where Starv says something really mean and turns his camera off in anger".

When did I say something mean?

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:36 am [VOTE: lucy] aubergine
[VOTE: NotAnAxehole] aubergine

Going to park my vote on the mafia team.

Nothing to say but I actually laughed out loud.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:34 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:33 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:31 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:30 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:29 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:27 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:26 am All three things you accused me of doing are extremely obviously correct to do in mountainous games. You are literally scumreading me for being townie.

You think that it's correct on day 1 of a mountainous game to ignore everything you know about a player in order to chop them for being superficially wolfy?

Get this through your head. No aspect of my meta knowledge of NAA has led me to believe that he would do these things as town. If anything my meta on NAA directly indicates he is scum because he is usually careful to put his vote on a position that helps him the most and here he is flagrantly abusing it towards anti town ends.

Do what things?

Vote me, you and Seanzie.

So, are Mac and Falcon also anti-town? And Seanzie, he's voting Mac?

straw man

I'm just trying to understand how bloated Alison's head is to think that the holy ground she walks on can't be touched.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:34 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:33 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:31 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:30 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:29 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:27 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:26 am All three things you accused me of doing are extremely obviously correct to do in mountainous games. You are literally scumreading me for being townie.

You think that it's correct on day 1 of a mountainous game to ignore everything you know about a player in order to chop them for being superficially wolfy?

Get this through your head. No aspect of my meta knowledge of NAA has led me to believe that he would do these things as town. If anything my meta on NAA directly indicates he is scum because he is usually careful to put his vote on a position that helps him the most and here he is flagrantly abusing it towards anti town ends.

Do what things?

Vote me, you and Seanzie.

So, are Mac and Falcon also anti-town? And Seanzie, he's voting Mac?

Yes, Mac is currently going down a very bad direction with his solving. Seanzie and Falcon are fine.

My problem is not that you scumread someone I know or believe to be town. My problem is that you have done nothing but that all game.

Ok, Seanzie and Falcon have done something other than their (according to you)... Bad reads?

EVERYBODY IS ANTITOWN BUT ME!

Sabi, anti town

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:31 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:30 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:29 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:27 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:26 am All three things you accused me of doing are extremely obviously correct to do in mountainous games. You are literally scumreading me for being townie.

You think that it's correct on day 1 of a mountainous game to ignore everything you know about a player in order to chop them for being superficially wolfy?

Get this through your head. No aspect of my meta knowledge of NAA has led me to believe that he would do these things as town. If anything my meta on NAA directly indicates he is scum because he is usually careful to put his vote on a position that helps him the most and here he is flagrantly abusing it towards anti town ends.

Do what things?

Vote me, you and Seanzie.

So, are Mac and Falcon also anti-town? And Seanzie, he's voting Mac?

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:30 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:28 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:26 am All three things you accused me of doing are extremely obviously correct to do in mountainous games. You are literally scumreading me for being townie.

You're litterally failing to deliver a solid D1 read which is kind of your bread and butter.

My solid D1 read is that you are mafia.

Oh my god, you're so anti-town.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:29 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:27 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:26 am All three things you accused me of doing are extremely obviously correct to do in mountainous games. You are literally scumreading me for being townie.

You think that it's correct on day 1 of a mountainous game to ignore everything you know about a player in order to chop them for being superficially wolfy?

Get this through your head. No aspect of my meta knowledge of NAA has led me to believe that he would do these things as town. If anything my meta on NAA directly indicates he is scum because he is usually careful to put his vote on a position that helps him the most and here he is flagrantly abusing it towards anti town ends.

Voting you isn't anti-town lel

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:28 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:27 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:25 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:24 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 am yeah no this is pretty townie from Alison

You're just biased

aren't you more biased?

I mean, you can do a meta dive, I've never once killed someone on site because I dislike them, and god knows I dislike a few people in this community.

and I've never shielded a person I've liked

I mean, I didn't say that, for instance Seanzie believes in shielding Alison because he thinks she's useful, I don't think that's a good way of playing mafia when she's obviously wolf rn.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:26 am All three things you accused me of doing are extremely obviously correct to do in mountainous games. You are literally scumreading me for being townie.

You're litterally failing to deliver a solid D1 read which is kind of your bread and butter.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:25 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:24 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 am yeah no this is pretty townie from Alison

You're just biased

aren't you more biased?

I mean, you can do a meta dive, I've never once killed someone on site because I dislike them, and god knows I dislike a few people in this community.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:24 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 am [VOTE: Achromatic] aubergine
[VOTE: NotAnAxehole] aubergine

I think these are the correct votes for now.

why axe? he's wolf siding way too hard to be scum

This is entirely untrue. But also, because Alison is outed mafia and doesn't know where to put her votes.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 am yeah no this is pretty townie from Alison

You're just biased

@MacDougall Alison is right, we should just Kill Alison, not both.

unvote Mac
[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:11 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:09 am If Achro is mafia he is just vote parking on the cheapest easy misexe which means Achro/Wilgy is actually not a sensical solve and Achro mafia spews Wilgy town.

Which means we should exe Achro since we win the game automatically if he is mafia and he is top 3 scum equity anyway.

this is a wolf post alison watch out

Alison obv wolf meta.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:04 am It is absolutely certain that NAA is wolfsiding extremely hard here. You'd be more trusting than me if you expect me to set that aside because of some nuance about his meta or whatever it is you are expecting me to read him off.

Meta is my favorite tech company.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:51 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:50 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:50 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:48 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:48 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:46 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:44 pm

I wouldn't characterize lucy's play right now as sitting back. Would you?

In terms of analysis? So far yes but also I haven't kept up snd isoed her. She posts a lot but hasn't said much I find interesting.

oh lucy be sitting and it isn't in the front

she's sitting back! omg

I see right through you

what if I like that though?

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:50 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:48 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:48 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:46 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:44 pm

Achromatic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:44 pm Sure. She is super smart and I want her to participate and be more active. I don't like her evasive tactics early with Mac and I when I think if she is allowed to sit back as wolf she just wins cause she gains strength as the game goes on. This is a short game format. Want to see more cards on the table.

I wouldn't characterize lucy's play right now as sitting back. Would you?

In terms of analysis? So far yes but also I haven't kept up snd isoed her. She posts a lot but hasn't said much I find interesting.

oh lucy be sitting and it isn't in the front

she's sitting back! omg

I see right through you