The Syndicate

That was quite the ending.

And it appears your defense tactic is to clam up and just ride out the rest of the day in hopes of skating by.
But half the Town has posted not by 2 posts a 2 players haven't even voted. With an AFK Town this game is just unwinnable anyways.
My legacy is just going to be advocate for killing HK, he's just openwolfing. I'm going to be gone the rest of the day because I have errands I need to run and probably wont be back on.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:06 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:03 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:00 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:57 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:31 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:26 pm I might have to definitely reevaluate Dolby if every single person voting me wants to kill him despite me sum reading him.
That seems rather blatant just setting up of a second mislynch.

wat

Well if you are trying to get me and the people I'm scum reading lynched.
That's very suspicious as it doesn't make sense that you would scum read both me and Dolby legitimately.

why?
Nothing either of you have done prove there's no association. I can wolf read both of you without stretching

I really do not think you do though. Your posts do not seem like you actually believe your reads.
I still haven't seen you give a reason for scum reading either of us in the first place. You're just kind of sitting there "reading" and not doing a whole lot of talking or any kind of discussion that isn't superficial really.
You also seem to have a very abnormal level of Jester fear which I've already stated Townies shouldn't really have.

regardless of whether or not this is legit gaslighting you're purposefully painting the least charitable interpretation of my posting and reads that you can.

Do you think I am a wolf and if so why aren't you pushing me?

I have been pushing you. I was pushing you and Dolby together. I'm voting you.
I'm guessing you just don't read or bother to check the poll ever.

You've been scummy all day with the Jester fearmongering and pushing Cop to not participate.
And I'm really doubting you are a Jester with how scared you have been of Jester this whole day.
Frankly I'm expecting it to be as obvious as Falcon and you are the Mafia and Dolby is the Jester at this rate.

It's like you have the same scummy worldview as Dolby does, who you scum read, and at the same time you're "participating" without actually participating.
So honestly scum reading Dolby is just hypocritical from you by the looks of it.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:00 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:57 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:31 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:26 pm I might have to definitely reevaluate Dolby if every single person voting me wants to kill him despite me sum reading him.
That seems rather blatant just setting up of a second mislynch.

wat

Well if you are trying to get me and the people I'm scum reading lynched.
That's very suspicious as it doesn't make sense that you would scum read both me and Dolby legitimately.

why?
Nothing either of you have done prove there's no association. I can wolf read both of you without stretching

I really do not think you do though. Your posts do not seem like you actually believe your reads.
I still haven't seen you give a reason for scum reading either of us in the first place. You're just kind of sitting there "reading" and not doing a whole lot of talking or any kind of discussion that isn't superficial really.
You also seem to have a very abnormal level of Jester fear which I've already stated Townies shouldn't really have.

I don't really see NAA trying to be Jestery here tbh.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:31 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:26 pm I might have to definitely reevaluate Dolby if every single person voting me wants to kill him despite me sum reading him.
That seems rather blatant just setting up of a second mislynch.

wat

Well if you are trying to get me and the people I'm scum reading lynched.
That's very suspicious as it doesn't make sense that you would scum read both me and Dolby legitimately.

I might have to definitely reevaluate Dolby if every single person voting me wants to kill him despite me sum reading him.
That seems rather blatant just setting up of a second mislynch.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:38 pm Am I surprised that the 2 player's I called out as scum are voting for me?



No, I am not.



You two are both OMGUSin', and to the one of ya that's actually town?



Ya better than that

Have you tried scum hunting?
I heard that is generally more effective than scumsiding if you're aiming to win as Town.
So, I guess if you were to stop trying to act like a Jester maybe I could Town read you.
The problem is you have not yet actually called out a single player this game. You made a few half-assed reads and refuse to back them up with anything.
You are the antithesis of Town you are trying to not help Town at this point.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:33 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:18 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:31 pm Falcon not a jester confirmed

I obviously rescind this

But my question to Lp still stands: how does one differentiate between mafia scummy and jester scummy?

I don’t think there’s a clear answer

@LinearPoint

I answered that here.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:24 pm The main reason I'm not really worried about the Jester is because the way I see it a good Jester will be indistinguishable from a Mafia Goon.
So we just cannot actually find the Jester and the only way to really guarantee someone is a Jester is for the Cop to check them and either the Goon dies or the GF claims to say they are the Jester.
Neither of those outcomes I'm particularly banking on, so really it's not like actively searching for the Jester will help and worrying about "they might be Jester" just will lead to a lot of tied votes or barely voted on lynches.

There is just quite literally not a way of accurately picking out the Jester, so it is pointless to try.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:33 pm So, the real question is @LinearPoint are you projecting onto Falcon what you view as scummy in your own play, or are you genuinely confused about how people come about scum reads in a mafia game, or do you think Falcon is lying, and is in fact mafia for it?

I haven't made a scummy post this game, so no, and he is lying I know that.
But he has made some posts that I don't fully expect from a Mafia.
I'm still leaning on Mafia. He's also not flipping Jester.

Only issue is I'm also still scum reading HK and Dolby with there being only 2 Mafia.
So 3 scum reads means I know I'm wrong one of them. Perhaps Dolby.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:29 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:21 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:15 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:06 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:03 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:41 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:30 pm LP is moving pieces around, but not actually playing the game IMO

I mean you've made 24 useless posts, so I think I'm being far more productive than you.
Your reads are completely random with no logical thread connecting any of them. I wouldn't be surprised if you said after the game you've just been flipping coins.

Your read on Scotty being scum for voting you is lazy at best.
You also said one of me and LC are Mafia out of no where with the evidence of some vague notion that the interaction between the two of us is fake which doesn't even make sense for TvS as both players have to be in on it for it to be fake.
Like if I were HK I'd accuse you of being Jester with just how little effort you have put into anything and how you jump around from no votes to random votes.

That's a lot of words to say:

no u

Look there is a post limit not a character limit.
I will milk the post dry.
I just wanted to really drive home the fact that Falcon is just being overly projecting.

How do you know he's projecting?

What does that mean for his alignment?

Why does it matter how his contributions relate to yours?

Well it's obvious I've been making contributions and him saying I was not was a blatant lie.
Compounded by the fact he himself has been posting fluff is very evident that he is just projecting.

Right now, his behavior is what I expect from someone trying to appear as a Jester, so he is either the Mafia Goon or Jester.
I was thinking it well before his comment around the time he was rapidly changing votes and giving reads with 0 explanation, but his last post to me solidifies the fact that he is trying to appear as a Jester since it was such an easily debunked lie.

If he's town, then he's not projecting or lying, he's just playing in a manner you disagree with, hmm?

Projection no as he might think he's doing something productive with his posts I guess.
It's still a lie though since I don't see how someone can sincerely make that argument. Best you could say it was an ignorance post and Falcon literally has not read anything this game.
I can't really fault him for intentionally lying as Town as I've done that numerous times.

Although Falcon's last post does give some pause.
I didn't see it when posting, but that isn't quite the response I expected from a Mafia or Jester.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:15 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:06 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:03 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:41 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:30 pm LP is moving pieces around, but not actually playing the game IMO

I mean you've made 24 useless posts, so I think I'm being far more productive than you.
Your reads are completely random with no logical thread connecting any of them. I wouldn't be surprised if you said after the game you've just been flipping coins.

Your read on Scotty being scum for voting you is lazy at best.
You also said one of me and LC are Mafia out of no where with the evidence of some vague notion that the interaction between the two of us is fake which doesn't even make sense for TvS as both players have to be in on it for it to be fake.
Like if I were HK I'd accuse you of being Jester with just how little effort you have put into anything and how you jump around from no votes to random votes.

That's a lot of words to say:

no u

Look there is a post limit not a character limit.
I will milk the post dry.
I just wanted to really drive home the fact that Falcon is just being overly projecting.

How do you know he's projecting?

What does that mean for his alignment?

Why does it matter how his contributions relate to yours?

Well it's obvious I've been making contributions and him saying I was not was a blatant lie.
Compounded by the fact he himself has been posting fluff is very evident that he is just projecting.

Right now, his behavior is what I expect from someone trying to appear as a Jester, so he is either the Mafia Goon or Jester.
I was thinking it well before his comment around the time he was rapidly changing votes and giving reads with 0 explanation, but his last post to me solidifies the fact that he is trying to appear as a Jester since it was such an easily debunked lie.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:03 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:41 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:30 pm LP is moving pieces around, but not actually playing the game IMO

I mean you've made 24 useless posts, so I think I'm being far more productive than you.
Your reads are completely random with no logical thread connecting any of them. I wouldn't be surprised if you said after the game you've just been flipping coins.

Your read on Scotty being scum for voting you is lazy at best.
You also said one of me and LC are Mafia out of no where with the evidence of some vague notion that the interaction between the two of us is fake which doesn't even make sense for TvS as both players have to be in on it for it to be fake.
Like if I were HK I'd accuse you of being Jester with just how little effort you have put into anything and how you jump around from no votes to random votes.

That's a lot of words to say:

no u

Look there is a post limit not a character limit.
I will milk the post dry.
I just wanted to really drive home the fact that Falcon is just being overly projecting.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:30 pm LP is moving pieces around, but not actually playing the game IMO

I mean you've made 24 useless posts, so I think I'm being far more productive than you.
Your reads are completely random with no logical thread connecting any of them. I wouldn't be surprised if you said after the game you've just been flipping coins.

Your read on Scotty being scum for voting you is lazy at best.
You also said one of me and LC are Mafia out of no where with the evidence of some vague notion that the interaction between the two of us is fake which doesn't even make sense for TvS as both players have to be in on it for it to be fake.
Like if I were HK I'd accuse you of being Jester with just how little effort you have put into anything and how you jump around from no votes to random votes.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:22 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:20 pm Pray tell how you do expect to know who is the Jester?

no I don't expect to know who the jester is. But what I do know is that many people will play jester "weird", especially if it is their first time. They'll be more chaotic than normal, they may make reads they don't normally make, or post things that are out of character for them as either alignment. That would be indicative that maybe we don't want to look there.

Yes that's a path for wolves to take as well idgaf really.

My only point in responding to you the first time was that jester <> mistake on town and you're kinda blowing that out of proportion.
Are you the jester we should be freezing?

The point I'm making is that the identity of the Jester is unknowable.
And trying to play around it is nearly pointless as we just cannot afford to not lynch people because there is a Jester alive.
We can't not play the game because Jester is alive especially since we know the Mafia Goon is likely going to try their best to appear identical to a Jester since it's their only protection from the Cop.

Pray tell how you do expect to know who is the Jester?

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:14 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:05 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:53 pm no, chopping the jester is not realistically treated like mischopping a townie. Chopping the jester, in this game, is the same as chopping town in F3. The game is over. It's not desirable to avoid it MUST be avoided for either side to win the game.

OK, but advocating to not lynch Mafia because they might be the Jester is also a losing scenario.
So this mentality is just bad.

ok, what's the solution then? because I want to win this game. I don't want to go "lulz we chopped the jester d1 wasn't that fun and funny".

We lose the game if the jester is chopped. there are no KP roles for town in the setup, so either we identify the jester and ignore them forever and freeze them out, or we what, hope wolves NK them?

But if we don't lynch anyone we lose.
I do not get how you think advocating to not lynch anyone is ever a good idea even if Jester is in the game.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:53 pm no, chopping the jester is not realistically treated like mischopping a townie. Chopping the jester, in this game, is the same as chopping town in F3. The game is over. It's not desirable to avoid it MUST be avoided for either side to win the game.

OK, but advocating to not lynch Mafia because they might be the Jester is also a losing scenario.
So this mentality is just bad.

But legitimately. Do we worry heavily about if someone might be a Townie before we push them to be lynched?
Maybe a little, but does that stop us? No because if we worried about every single lynch being Town we'd never get anything done.
Jester is pretty much the same way only the stakes are a lot higher as instead of being at a disadvantage its a loss.
Lynching a Jester should realistically just be treated like mislynching a Townie. Yes, it is desirable to avoid, but it just happens some times, oh well.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:29 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:24 pm The main reason I'm not really worried about the Jester is because the way I see it a good Jester will be indistinguishable from a Mafia Goon.
So we just cannot actually find the Jester and the only way to really guarantee someone is a Jester is for the Cop to check them and either the Goon dies or the GF claims to say they are the Jester.
Neither of those outcomes I'm particularly banking on, so really it's not like actively searching for the Jester will help and worrying about "they might be Jester" just will lead to a lot of tied votes or barely voted on lynches.

Isn't a good Mafia Goon indistinguishable from a Vanilla Town?

So at the end of the day everyone is Town.
The end.

And about the Jester claiming Jester.
I can tell you for a fact that I know some people here would unironically do that.
It especially helps like 4 people did it so it's easy to blend that joke in, but it's a personality thing.
Not all Jester players will do that and Jester as a whole is all about the psychological warfare of what would a Jester never do?

The main reason I'm not really worried about the Jester is because the way I see it a good Jester will be indistinguishable from a Mafia Goon.
So we just cannot actually find the Jester and the only way to really guarantee someone is a Jester is for the Cop to check them and either the Goon dies or the GF claims to say they are the Jester.
Neither of those outcomes I'm particularly banking on, so really it's not like actively searching for the Jester will help and worrying about "they might be Jester" just will lead to a lot of tied votes or barely voted on lynches.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:14 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:09 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:08 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:05 am

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:56 am I mean it's fair. I see why you town read them. I just think it's a little too focused on one thing.
And from the way I see it Jester is more a threat to Mafia since they want the Jester alive for protection from Cop, but not lynched because they lose.
They also just happen to be in the best position to actually know if someone is a Jester or not, so I'm thinking a focus on the Jester seems a bit more likely to come from Mafia.

Depends on how people play as 3P. I've seen players try to townside or just fuck around and be a circus act.
Also feels like it could suck for town, because like you're pointing out now, it's a distraction as well. The jester gets the attention, mafia could choose to either hide in the background or partake to blend in.
Literally just a chaotic role.

I feel like one of you is Maf, tho I'm unsure who atm

What makes you think this?

The way you both interact...it just feels...off?



Anyways,

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

He's prolly Godfather

But why one in that case?
I think we've had a total of maybe 3 posts directed at each other combined.
And if it's off I'd be more incline to think SvS than SvT since it's hard to have a conversation that feels off but not realyl directed at anyone in particular with it being TvS.

I mean it's fair. I see why you town read them. I just think it's a little too focused on one thing.
And from the way I see it Jester is more a threat to Mafia since they want the Jester alive for protection from Cop, but not lynched because they lose.
They also just happen to be in the best position to actually know if someone is a Jester or not, so I'm thinking a focus on the Jester seems a bit more likely to come from Mafia.

And honestly reading over Dolby's posts they seem pretty focused on the Jester and Jester fearmongering.
I feel, personally, the Mafia are going to be far more worried of the Jester and alert for it. After all they are only looking for indications someone might be trying to scumside.
Town meanwhile are trying to find the difference between Mafia scummy behavior and Jester scummy behavior.

Dolby wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:50 pm LP's entrance seems most stilted but that doesn't mean anything at this point

naa unironically not a jester imo, idk skimming P#17 seems to on the nose for jester kinda

marmot following HK's 24 with 25, kinda scummy but maybe in a jestery way

Like this early reads in particular.

It sounds like stilted in this context is trying to be used to insinuate that I am a Jester trying to act natural.
They say NAA isn't Jester, but also sounds like Jester.
And Marmot is Jestery.

None of these are Town reads, and at least 2 of them are directly related to Jester and none of them even mention Mafia.
This comes across as someone who is way too hyperfocused on the Jester. Combined with what I noticed about their odd request for Cop to basically sit this game out and not participate I do not like them at all so far.
I don't think this is Jester either. this seems like Mafia trying to get Town to focus on Jester as a distraction.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:07 pm Why is it dead again?

Was it ever alive?
I think everytime I check in my free time I see like maybe 2 new posts.

Unfortunately most of the players are just playing ultra passive and just saying "Well I'm not the Jester."
Frankly. I don't see any real point in even worrying about the Jester. If we lynch someone being scummy and they flip Jester, oh well gg.
I for one think it's a pointless point of speculation until we actually have a red check and we can see if their posts have seemed Jestery.

The actual only thing of interest that has happened this game has been the discussion on the Cop not claiming.
A point I think is stupid and honestly Dolby pushing it seems pretty anti-town to me.

Dolby wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:53 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:25 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:16 pm After mafia goon dies, cop should act like a named towny unless the jester is being yeeted

After The Godfather dies, idk

After the jester dies, cop should act like a cop

best mech

“After The Godfather dies, idk”

Probably stay silent until you get 2 reds, or maybe try to keep a green from being yeeted

I mean the first post in this chain is pretty pointless as no duh if the Jester dies a Cop redcheck is absolutely just a free dead Mafia.
Saying that getting a redcheck after GF dies to not claim it is just wrong IMO.
For starters there is a Doctor, so Cop claiming is 100% safe if Doctor is alive. Granted if Doctor is dead there may be some room to say not claiming may help, but as a blanket I very much disagree.
Second if GF dies the Cop outing a redcheck is still good even if we suspect that player to be the Jester. At least we know they cannot be trusted to help the Town and I'd rather the Cop not be sniped knowing someone is a Goon or Jester.
We also can still get information from Cop's green checks. If GF dies all Green checks are confirmed townies. Cop has a lot more power besides maybe finding the Jester.

Tbh I’d just lynch the guilty jester or not.
WCS we have a funny story.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:25 am which means the jester wants to be wolfy enough that the wolves won't NK them and not so wolfy that they're obvs the jester. That should narrow things down significantly. I think.

Also means wolves are more likely to claim jester tbh given that nobody actually wants to chop the jester here.

Also also means townies are less likely to claim jester. I think

Sort of true. There is a GF so only the Goon cops as Jester.

Dolby wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:50 pm LP's entrance seems most stilted but that doesn't mean anything at this point

naa unironically not a jester imo, idk skimming P#17 seems to on the nose for jester kinda

marmot following HK's 24 with 25, kinda scummy but maybe in a jestery way

Why I never. I’m just trying to help the Jester.
Unfortunately there are many a Jester here.
I’ll just vote NAA since he is most likely to claim Jester as Jester.

How do you do fellow kids. Who is the Jester?
I’ll vote you to help you win.