PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[Chloe]

also i cant really do jack shit about people scumreading me based off of tangy so im mostly ignoring posts that focus on tangy/kza or whatever

if people want to talk about *me* im more than willing to chat a bit

its a really skewed way to view the game but i cant help but get bad feelings when people bring up tangy stuff
idk what im supposed to do with it
im chloe not tangy
but i get that im still in tangy's slot and she shouldnt go ignored
its just really frustrating i wish i was here from the start

[Marluxion]

i think marls posts are not v good

okay so talk about them
this is like the 8th time you've said my posting is not v good without saying why or what posts you dont like and you ignored me the last time i asked you to

they're super basic and i dont feel like you are trying to really work with anyone

okay
which posts
i'm not looking for a broad general statement
i can't work with a broad general statement
that's all you've done this game imo
it's impossible to tell if you're actually solving from it
go into specifics on what posts of mine you dont like and highlight why

[outed wolf]

i dont want to, sorry

maybe some other time i will feel like it

[Chloe]

i have secondhand annoyance

[Marluxion]

No I just toggled back and forth between catching up and reading the latest page. That's a pretty silly accusation.

I've been honest about my detachment from the thread from literally my first post, and tbh it's also pretty WIM reducing to tell you all that Gavial is town, be proven correct, and then run up for TMI.

I think there is at least 1 in Amy/dya, and [c4, Dizzy] would constitute the rest of my POE. You're an unknown. Vulgard/Sunbae/nutella/Arete/Chloe are not really concerns.

Visor/Zack are in the "idk but they haven't pinged me" category. I see others have suspicions there so since I'm not confident on them my plan is to focus on what I am confident on, specifically my POE and towncore, and just sheep my townreads on Visor/Zack.

do you have no take on me at all? we just wolfed together in deck mafia so i find it hard to believe you'd have absolutely nothing to say about me at all

[Chloe]

'its fol gang vs the rest'

yet doesnt expand on things about us when asked

can we at least try to bridge the gap and not give us shit for not expanding our boundaries

[nutella]

if theres 1/2 in amy/dya ill consider this a mission success

2/3 in amy/dya/alison would be aokay with me too

basically same tbh

i think marls posts are not v good

okay so talk about them
this is like the 8th time you've said my posting is not v good without saying why or what posts you dont like and you ignored me the last time i asked you to

i know this isn't to me, but to put it bluntly marl, you've barely done anything memorable this game, and yet you come in every now and then talking about how good you think your contributions have been as if you're god's gift to the thread. now i think that's a >rand villager sentiment to have, but i don't think it's backed up at all, and i'd like to see you pull back on the hubris a bit and just talk things through bc i dont actually know what most of your reads are

[outed wolf]

i have talked about both of you before

im mostly leaving you two alone because i think others are wolfier and some ppl are hard townreading you so im accepting theres a chance its just playstyle differences

[outed wolf]

get em nutella

i knew i village read you for a reason

[nutella]

people not commenting on the actual meat of his posts

yeah like

what is the meat tho

[Chloe]

yeah like

what is the meat tho

there is none

but it feels like he thinks there actually is some somehow

[Marluxion]

i know this isn't to me, but to put it bluntly marl, you've barely done anything memorable this game, and yet you come in every now and then talking about how good you think your contributions have been as if you're god's gift to the thread. now i think that's a >rand villager sentiment to have, but i don't think it's backed up at all, and i'd like to see you pull back on the hubris a bit and just talk things through bc i dont actually know what most of your reads are

I've given my reads! It's one of the last posts in my iso before i went to stopped posting to conserve posts

and i dont think ive been 'god's gift to the thread' but i have definitely contributed and shared my thoughts and it's like people aren't even reading them

every single time people talk about me it's just 'wow his iso is bad' or 'derpclear probably real!'

it's like people aren't actually reading my posts
like hell if they are actually bad at least point out what about them is bad and what thoughts you disagree with so i have SOMETHING to work with

i can't do anything with a generalization and that's ALL i've gotten this game

like the only time i've been quoted in the last 8 pages (other than live interaction) was arete saying i forgot to include them in my rainbow and bronana saying i mistyped a post number

[Chloe]

okay im ngl ive had this thought going through my head for a while but its bit me in the ass before so ive been not really wanting to share

but like
what the hell is alison's gameplan as a wolf? i dont understand. is she being set up to push the other wolves deeper via bus? does she legitimately have zero gameplan and shes super disconnected from the thread?

to be fair i dont know what shes doing if shes a villager either but the fact that i cant pinpoint any true direction or agenda from her gives me a lot of doubts about the wagon being a hit

[Marluxion]

okay im ngl ive had this thought going through my head for a while but its bit me in the ass before so ive been not really wanting to share

but like
what the hell is alison's gameplan as a wolf? i dont understand. is she being set up to push the other wolves deeper via bus? does she legitimately have zero gameplan and shes super disconnected from the thread?

to be fair i dont know what shes doing if shes a villager either but the fact that i cant pinpoint any true direction or agenda from her gives me a lot of doubts about the wagon being a hit

wolfing with them in deck mafia, their wim was probably already super low after the loss
idk if this is their direct next game or not but if they did rand wolf back to back with that game it could explain why their wim is demonstrably low this game

[Marluxion]

yeah like

what is the meat tho

there is none

but it feels like he thinks there actually is some somehow

ALSO THERE IS
Just because i dont take 8000 words to give a thought doesn't mean there aren't thoughts in my post

like that sunbae post i just quoted when catching up that felt super wolfy and self aware nobody even commented on
like hell even a "no it's probably rand" or "i disagree i think sunbae is town" would have sufficed but it was just fucking ignored

[Chloe]

wolfing with them in deck mafia, their wim was probably already super low after the loss
idk if this is their direct next game or not but if they did rand wolf back to back with that game it could explain why their wim is demonstrably low this game

im ngl i didnt think alison was someone who gets hit with wimdrops
i dont know her super well but from my few convos with her shes pretty level-headed and 'gg go next'

i dont think her disconnect is super duper AI, really

[Marluxion]

wolfing with them in deck mafia, their wim was probably already super low after the loss
idk if this is their direct next game or not but if they did rand wolf back to back with that game it could explain why their wim is demonstrably low this game

im ngl i didnt think alison was someone who gets hit with wimdrops
i dont know her super well but from my few convos with her shes pretty level-headed and 'gg go next'

i dont think her disconnect is super duper AI, really

everyone can get hit with wim drops
no one is immune to it
having to keep up a facade is tiring no matter your playstyle or personality

[Chloe]

if shes a wolf im gunna feel like a big ol nerd but like

whatze fuck ever

expanding my horizons or some shit

i just dont feel it

[nutella]

Chloe
Dyachei
Nutella
Vulgard

All 4 villagers
I can say this with confidence i think

Lex
SPF
c4?*

all i think are PROBABLY villagers and i dont vote here today

Bronana

I think is slightly spewed v by KZA but i respect this entire lobby enough not to full clear someone on spew because everyone in this game probably has some semblence of theater, would take a lot to get me to vote here today

Amy

Had some posts i liked yesterday but i've honestly never seen amy wolf and nothing coming from her seems super confidence inspiring, like barely above the tier below

Sunbae
Visor
Alison

Direct PoE, must have at least 1 wolf or i'm going to lose my mind probably

* c4 has the questionmark because i forgot he existed until the end but i remember his post about nobody acknowledging him and recall it feeling genuine

ok

i don't fully get why the conversation about reflections got you to move dya all the way up to top tier

you also just mentioned having wolfed with alison recently so would appreciate more insight from you there

[Chloe]

like that sunbae post i just quoted when catching up that felt super wolfy and self aware nobody even commented on

i agree it sounded overly self-aware but i wasnt sure if it was me being dumb and missing a joke so i didnt comment

just saw your post about it my b

[nutella]

okay im ngl ive had this thought going through my head for a while but its bit me in the ass before so ive been not really wanting to share

but like
what the hell is alison's gameplan as a wolf? i dont understand. is she being set up to push the other wolves deeper via bus? does she legitimately have zero gameplan and shes super disconnected from the thread?

to be fair i dont know what shes doing if shes a villager either but the fact that i cant pinpoint any true direction or agenda from her gives me a lot of doubts about the wagon being a hit

wolfing with them in deck mafia, their wim was probably already super low after the loss
idk if this is their direct next game or not but if they did rand wolf back to back with that game it could explain why their wim is demonstrably low this game

hm possible yeah

she did also just win the hydra game with me as wolf but i'm not really sure how relevant that is


idk the issue chloe brings up is kinda a reason to entertain the dya/alison w/w theories

[Marluxion]

i don't fully get why the conversation about reflections got you to move dya all the way up to top tier

it wasn't the conversation as a whole, it was exactly one post that just felt genuine and struck a chord with me
post 1876

it feels exactly like i felt in zelda mash when everyone was saying i was scum who didn't want to be in thread when i was actually extremely happy to be playing the game because i was excited to play my role and with the flavor

[nutella]

yeah like

what is the meat tho

there is none

but it feels like he thinks there actually is some somehow

ALSO THERE IS
Just because i dont take 8000 words to give a thought doesn't mean there aren't thoughts in my post

like that sunbae post i just quoted when catching up that felt super wolfy and self aware nobody even commented on
like hell even a "no it's probably rand" or "i disagree i think sunbae is town" would have sufficed but it was just fucking ignored

i remember kinda thinking it was weirdly specific to almost a trolly extent when i read it and couldnt decided what to say if anything ngl

[nutella]

i don't fully get why the conversation about reflections got you to move dya all the way up to top tier

it wasn't the conversation as a whole, it was exactly one post that just felt genuine and struck a chord with me
post 1876

it feels exactly like i felt in zelda mash when everyone was saying i was scum who didn't want to be in thread when i was actually extremely happy to be playing the game because i was excited to play my role and with the flavor

ok that helps a little thanks

[Chloe]

i keep clicking hally's signature spoiler thinking theres a spicy read in there then being disappointed

[Vulgard]

@sunbae I found the things that made me tinfoil Dya/Vulgard.
May or may not be extremely dumb.

I'm kinda townreading Dya for their consistent frustration over being scumread, but at the same time I can only mildly townread them for it for so long. This and their Alison scumread they've been repping for a while are the only things I remember Dya doing, while most other players have voiced reads on every other player in the game, done significant analysis, etc.

Using the word "repping" is interesting, because it doesn't signal to me a mindframe that it's a read Dya is having, but rather projecting.

However, first of all, lol language. And I also gathered that Vulgard, from what I understand, is not a native English speaker like myself. And I myself may misread the significance of this particular word here. But it crossed my mind.

I think I've been fairly consistent in saying that you haven't been exclusively tunneling Alison, but that your read on Alison is definitely the highlight of your contributions so far. It's the first thing I associate with you in this game, outside of the constant defensive attitude. The defensive attitude part is something I could see being NAI based on how I saw you play as town sometimes, but yeah.

Speaking of reads outside of Alison, do the flips give you more reads outside of Alison? What do you think @ my townread of Alison?

Also this. I don't quite understand, because they say the defensive attitude could be NAI based on how they have seen Dya as town. Does this mean that Dya is not town here? Is it meant to say "based on how I saw you play as scum"? Am I reading this wrong or reading too much into this?

To be clear, I actually read Vulgard as more town. And I don't really have a read on Dya. But these are two things that crossed my mind, and they are very detailed, so it may just be me reading too much into things.

1. I definitely meant it as in "having." It's one of dya's two strongest reads day 1. If I meant it as in "projecting," I wouldn't be TRing them, since that would mean they didn't have any real scumreads on day 1 (I could easily apply this logic to Gavial in that world).
2. Nah, I meant what I said. The idea is "since I saw you doing this stuff as town it's not something necessarily wolf AI for you."

As for some thoughts about things other than the common topic:

- I read through c4's iso again because I was having the nagging suspicion that they've just been kind of happy with the thread position and not trying to push things forward much today. I still feel that's accurate but I think it's more due to the fact that they are ... just happy with the thread position because it's their wolf reads being wagoned. Their posts through day one hit a wide variety of topics, often unprompted, and the way they jumped around from one thing to the next felt seamless and organic. I also still feel that some of the immediate responses of feeling ignored and flustered - along with the feeling of audacity that Alison could think they were a wolf for what they've been posting this game - comes from a villagers mindset rather than a performative wolf one.

- I am keeping Arete's stuff on Vul in the back of my mind because my initial response to Vul's posting this game phase was "This is not a person coming into the thread somewhat embarrassed about missing a god read". The posting Vul has brought today is something that reads fine but I can't shake the feeling that it's the type of busy work I do when I wolf where I show the long, post by post recap breakdown of individual cases as I go down the line of person to person. I feel like a lot of Vul's reads/presentations are just almost in isolation of anything else going on. Arete seems rather confident there and nobody else seems concerned, but I wanted to put it out there anyways.

- I wasn't huge on Tangrowth's posting down the stretch yesterday and I'm not really huge on Chloe's either. However, it does seem like a fair number of people are totally fine with the slot. Feel like letting Chloe get in the groove for the day was a fine place to start but I really haven't seen the wheels start to turn there the way I was hoping for.

I don't want to dwell on missing a godread. People are wrong in forum mafia, happens. And my reads look like they're in isolation to you probably because I spent more time doing ISOs than actually sitting in the thread. I disagree with the idea that I'm not paying attention to what's actually happening, though; this seems to be what you're implying here and it's not true at all.

the wording things Dizzy just pointed out are NAI at worst

like I am not Vulgard and he can correct me if I'm wrong but the thing about Dya repping a scumread is just ... him not endorsing the position that Dya believes it, rather than him endorsing the position that Dya doesn't believe it

and the defensive attitude post is like 'Dya has a defensive attitude [which would normally be wolfy] but they've done it before as town, so it could be NAI,' it has an implicitly encoded assumption that a defensive attitude is wolfy rather than an implicit assumption that Dya is a wolf

That's basically what I meant in both cases.

i really relate to the feeling that everyone is kinda just solving by themselves in their own individual corner of the game, and i'd really like to play a role in creating a more cohesive/cooperative environment if i'm still here tomorrow. i think the gamestate is actually perfectly fine for the position we're in, but better cohesion/communication would help a lot

i've been trying my best to get people to talk to me and the results have been very... whelming. dunno if that's a consequence of my thread position or more indicative of the gamestate at large (or if i'm just not asking the right questions)

i think there's a pool of players who have found each other as town that need to be doing more with that than they currently are

@ chloe @ arete.

people: 'if you and another player are mutually finding each other as town you should do something with that'

me: 'ok. here are 30 posts on why Vulgard is a villager.'

people: 'no not like that'

eiagjeaogjakg

I'm starting to townread SPF for the sole reason that I like her posts and not because of anything she has done. Help.

I think the way dya pushed on Alison and the way Alison interacted back make them very unlikely to be a W/W pairing. I'm specifically looking at dya's word choice here, I've mentioned this before. They can be W/V but I really doubt W/W.

I understand that Alison hasn't done much today but I also think the reasons to townread her from day 1 (re: treatment of Gavial) hold up. I don't think wolf Alison would be playing like she is playing here.

I'm not sure about Amy at this point. Her townreading her accusers is... not what I expected, admittedly. I'm not sure how to read that. She had some odd interactions with dya and her treatment of Gavial was strangely tunneled, but I also townread her hard early day 1 and I'm trying to reconcile how that makes sense together with the wolfread I walked away from her ISO with.

I also think Tangy was 100% a villager. I village cased her already and I'll do that again if I have to, but I think her posts day 1 have actually been excellent past a certain point.

[bronana]

im breaking kayfabe, lets kill amy

too many verbose posts that go nowhere, the zomg everyone is so villagy wallpost, trying to tie herself to me by accusing me of trying to tie myself to her

[VOTE: ampharos] aubergine

idk why i hesitated, idk what dya is seeing in amy, maybe its just something dumb like amy/dya/chloe and dya decided to hard tr her partners, who knows

[Vulgard]

I'm not going to have time for meticulously going through ISOs today so I'll spend my remaining posts interacting in the thread and trying to figure out a consensus.

I feel like I have completely different reasons for voting Amy than everyone else does. Are other people on her wagon voting her because she's a better alternative than Alison, or because they're pairing her with dya or whoever?

[Vulgard]

Why are so many people's reads on Amy predicated on preflip pairings?

[outed wolf]

oh i figure i should @Amy

i am around if you wanted to chat (keep in mind i am gonna save maybe 3 posts for eod (if i show up))

[outed wolf]

Why are so many people's reads on Amy predicated on preflip pairings?

i dont think they are?

[Vulgard]

I keep seeing "amy/dya" posts to the point I feel like it's distorting the thread.

[outed wolf]

i think the biggest disconnect re amy/dya is dya is hard townreading amy and amy is hard wolfreading dya

which makes ppl think well this doesnt seem right for w/w

[Chloe]

people who have experience playing with alison:

would wolf!alison fake being unaware of when EoD is and self-pres without a PR claim? shes locked into a VT claim now pretty much
isnt she one of the people who thinks fakeclaiming PR for the cc or potential to live another day is almost always optimal or am i mixing her up with someone else

[Amy]

oh i was cooling on the read as i was away from the thread but zack might actually just be a wolf huh

[Vulgard]

I think Alison's competent enough to do this as a wolf, but I still think she is a villager. @ Chloe

@ visor That part is weird because like. That's not what was happening day 1. Day 1 Amy had a few posts where it looked like she was pocketing dya and dya proceeded to townread her. Come today, Amy is now wolfreading Dya and Dya is townreading Amy. I'm not sure why she'd turn on someone who townreads her if she were a wolf, especially today, when far fewer people townread her. What would be the point of the day 1 thing then? It's possible she's following the thread's concerns about Dya in an effort to stay alive, but it seems counterproductive for wolf!Amy to do.

As for what it means about Dya, I don't know. I feel like townreading Amy in this situation is anti-wincon for their wolfgame, since they could just flip their read on Amy like Amy flipped her read on them. It would be justified. But then again, it literally doesn't matter to dya since dya's been insistent on pushing Alison all game. Besides, I've just checked ISOs and while Amy's shifting her read on Dya, Dya doesn't seem to be paying attention to it at all. I'm not sure if v!Dya ignores that.

There's also the fact you say Amy's wolfreading Dya, but Amy's currently voting on the same wagon as Dya.

Amy's wolfread on Alison is weird. Her only reasoning for putting her toward the bottom of her readlist (apparently) is that she isn't comfortable voting anywhere else. This was earlier during day 2. She also says that Alison is playing an underwhelming game if town. I... don't see many other explanations for why she even wolfreads Alison. She should be townreading Dya based on this mindset as well, since Dya is by far the strongest Alison pusher in this game and Amy calls an Alison vote her most comfortable vote. Her shifting her read on Dya should mean something for her Alison read as well, no? I'd be more okay with it if Amy straight up said the Alison voting was self-pres, but she claims to genuinely believe Alison is a likely wolf - yet I find it hard to find any arguments for it in her ISO. The read just looks fake and birthed from a self-preservation instinct.

[Vulgard]

people who have experience playing with alison:

would wolf!alison fake being unaware of when EoD is and self-pres without a PR claim? shes locked into a VT claim now pretty much
isnt she one of the people who thinks fakeclaiming PR for the cc or potential to live another day is almost always optimal or am i mixing her up with someone else

I'm somewhere between "how did you notice that, sus" and "does this just prove Alison is a villager?" I agree she'd probably fakeclaim PR as wolf if she thought she was going down. There's the option she faked not knowing when EoD was but yeah.

[Chloe]

im just a gamer, vul

it runs in the chlebze bloodline

[Vulgard]

In essence, I don't think Amy's treatment of her dya and Alison reads is genuine because I can't track the thought process behind it very well.

[Chloe]

also yeah faking not knowing when eod is is a possibility but that doesnt change the fact that shes locked in as a VT claim now

Basic Reads That I'm Oddly Confident in Episode IX

[nutella]

Why are so many people's reads on Amy predicated on preflip pairings?

mine's not, i think she is wolfy on her own merit and fits with various possible worlds

[Amy]

i'm tired and i wanna make sure people still have posts

@Alison
@Arete
@bronana
@c4e5g3d5
@dyachei
@Dyslexicon
@Gavial
@Hally
@Marluxion
@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
@nutella
@outed wolf
@staypositivefriend
@sunbae
@Tangrowth
@Vulgard

hardclaim tracker

n1 zack no visit

be here in earnest in like 10 minutes

[nutella]

i think the biggest disconnect re amy/dya is dya is hard townreading amy and amy is hard wolfreading dya

which makes ppl think well this doesnt seem right for w/w

i mean amy was townreading dya until fairly recently

oh i was cooling on the read as i was away from the thread but zack might actually just be a wolf huh

[bronana]

putting yourself at the top of a readslist just like the good ol days
bronana

let's roll with calling them villagers for now
nutella
outed wolf
spf

the two peas in a godread pod that i suppose are fine enough
arete
vulgard

i'm not sure but some people think they're town and shrug, sure?
c4
sunbae

i dunno what to do with you
dya
dizzy
marl
chloe

i'll vote u ill do it
alison
amy

[outed wolf]

aight.

alison or dya i guess now

[Amy]

assorted thoughts

I think the way outed wolf's approached me is pretty consistent with how he tends to approach me as a villager, speaking as someone who has been pushed by town!him a LOT (as both alignments, as we've now established!) I don't have a super confident read on him outside of that, but I'm kinda willing to ride the selfish read for the time being. I'm ASSUMING bronana/Sunbae would notice weirdness from him before I would, anyways (no pressure c:)

I had some thoughts about Zack near EoD yesterday along the lines of "I really haven't put a lot of effort into reading Zack yet" but they didn't go anywhere, and in light of KZA's flip I don't think I'm suuuuuuper concerned about him?

I've had misgivings about how much of a pass I've given Sunbae, too, simply because he feels like he's been more on the sidelines than he typically is. Entirely possible that I simply haven't made enough of an effort to engage him yet, and I feel fairly confident that I'll be able to lock him in as a more confident townread sooner or later if he really is town.

nutella, spf, and Vulgard are simply villagers, nothing more; my c4 read is largely sheeping spf, but having now read his wall (lol) I think there are a lot of astute points in there that display a villagery mindset, so I'm not too worried about doing further diligence.

dya... I will talk more about dya should it remain pertinent later on today. I'm not hard town on them, but the kind of read I have on dya is the kind I'm usually correct on. I do agree with a lot of the points against them re: tone and thread presence. Haven't looked at the Alison push in too much detail.

Chloe's opener felt very "I just joined in a villager slot and am hyped to start putting thoughts into the thread". No concerns here.

Marl I am voting for "he is whelming" reasons + sheeping Chloe reasons.

Arete is a player in this game and I still have no real idea what to do with them.

[Chloe]

okay well now my world has been rocked a bit

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

not cc'ing

[bronana]

i hate all of you

[VOTE: alison] aubergine

[outed wolf]

sorry bronana

im gonna chalk this one up to PR confidence and not at all my bad readz :curtain:

[Amy]

visor you suck at reading me lmao