Cartomancy [Game Over]

[Jackofhearts2005]

The more true thing about that 4 player wagon is it is likely 75% town regardless of Kate's alignment, which is pretty well rand. So trying to do wagonomics with it is dumb.

However 3 of the voters seem much townier than the other, hence my vote.

Fill me in, which one isn't towny?

I said 3 seem townier than one. Not that one wasn't townie.

SPF, Baudib and Tutuu have been a lot townier than Creature.

Creature has hit a towntell of his which is quietly and nakedly sheeping me because he has gotten it into his head that as town I am always right and as mafia I'd feel obligated to bus. Regardless of whether you agree with that I believe that he believes it and so him acting in accordance with that is his town meta.

What does one even do with nonsense like this?

It's hard not to read it as a wolf trying to look like a townie that believes her shit doesn't stink.

I'm just good at reading creature what can I say

if you have a problem with the reasoning feel free to explicate it

It's just a nonsensical tell that Creature isn't even exhibiting to begin with. It's frustrating being like "Is this obviously wrong town Alison or faking wolf Alison?"

[Alison]

But mostly I want you to actually explain what you have against my reads instead of just quoting them and going "this sounds wrong"

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: creature ] aubergine

[tutuu]

Roxy did you read the other posts in the thread before your first game-relevant post (which was quoting Creature's post on page 8)?

@Roxy hey roxy better not reply to alison for a bit, lets chill :P

from experience its best to defuse the situation ur in by just ignoring it for a bit, can always come back to it later, plenty daylight left

im chilling too

im interested in this answer if u feel like talkin bout it

[Seanzie]

snipped bc reasons-----

Hey Roxy, have you played with Creature before?

No why does it matter? It doesn't in mafia. Bad posts are, well, bad. It's why we ask questions and expect answers. It is the towns only weapon.

I have played with Kate for years and have no read. You must be psychic or a better player than I.

Highlighted pink text is contradictory.

Do you find contradictions like this AI?

[Alison]

It's just a nonsensical tell that Creature isn't even exhibiting to begin with. It's frustrating being like "Is this obviously wrong town Alison or faking wolf Alison?"

It's a pretty solid tell and I think I know Creature's meta better than you. He is certainly exhibiting it (he naked voted Kate right after I rallied a wagon on her).

Why are you waffling on whether or not I'm bad town or scum? I feel like the Jack I know would just lay it down as Alison wolf without feeling the need to second guess himself.

[Alison]

snipped bc reasons-----

Hey Roxy, have you played with Creature before?

No why does it matter? It doesn't in mafia. Bad posts are, well, bad. It's why we ask questions and expect answers. It is the towns only weapon.

I have played with Kate for years and have no read. You must be psychic or a better player than I.

Highlighted pink text is contradictory.

Do you find contradictions like this AI?

Yes, town contradict themselves much less than scum do.

[Jackofhearts2005]

It's just a nonsensical tell that Creature isn't even exhibiting to begin with. It's frustrating being like "Is this obviously wrong town Alison or faking wolf Alison?"

It's a pretty solid tell and I think I know Creature's meta better than you. He is certainly exhibiting it (he naked voted Kate right after I rallied a wagon on her).

Why are you waffling on whether or not I'm bad town or scum? I feel like the Jack I know would just lay it down as Alison wolf without feeling the need to second guess himself.

If you want me to just wolf read you, I'll just wolf read you.

[tutuu]

snipped bc reasons-----

Hey Roxy, have you played with Creature before?

No why does it matter? It doesn't in mafia. Bad posts are, well, bad. It's why we ask questions and expect answers. It is the towns only weapon.

I have played with Kate for years and have no read. You must be psychic or a better player than I.

Highlighted pink text is contradictory.

This doesn't feel like a townie looking for wolves. This looks like a player arguing.

in a vacuum i agree this is scummy for most players; i think alison does it either way. im certain ive seen it from either alignment of hers, at least

[Alison]

It's just a nonsensical tell that Creature isn't even exhibiting to begin with. It's frustrating being like "Is this obviously wrong town Alison or faking wolf Alison?"

It's a pretty solid tell and I think I know Creature's meta better than you. He is certainly exhibiting it (he naked voted Kate right after I rallied a wagon on her).

Why are you waffling on whether or not I'm bad town or scum? I feel like the Jack I know would just lay it down as Alison wolf without feeling the need to second guess himself.

If you want me to just wolf read you, I'll just wolf read you.

I think it's wolfy of you not to have done so from the start tbh.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: creature ] aubergine

Oh don't worry, I'll get to you, Jess.

[Baudib1]

FTR I agree with almost all of Alison’s posts at least to a certain degree. Pocketing intensifies.

[Jackofhearts2005]

It's just a nonsensical tell that Creature isn't even exhibiting to begin with. It's frustrating being like "Is this obviously wrong town Alison or faking wolf Alison?"

It's a pretty solid tell and I think I know Creature's meta better than you. He is certainly exhibiting it (he naked voted Kate right after I rallied a wagon on her).

Why are you waffling on whether or not I'm bad town or scum? I feel like the Jack I know would just lay it down as Alison wolf without feeling the need to second guess himself.

If you want me to just wolf read you, I'll just wolf read you.

I think it's wolfy of you not to have done so from the start tbh.

[staypositivefriend]

i'm not fully caught up but i'm getting pinged by a lot of the posts from creature that i'm seeing

i just played with him in da bois invitiational where we were T/T, and one thing i noticed about his game is that he was super hedgy and super non-commital and consistently projected a mindset where he was scared about being wrong. some quotes from him on d1 in that game:

I'm giving time for my reads to mature.

I am prob not giving anyone a townread for now until I am fairly sure about it. So don't expect anything from me other than pushing whoever is being wolfy.

I dunno where to go. I suspect spf and ladd the most but I'm also afraid of lynching them and them being town.

neopest I guess is playing her town game? (although I feel like she may have figured it out as wolf and can emulate it)

by contrast, creature is picking up reads in this game much more confidently, and he is pushing on ppl fairly aggressively and seems to have no hesitance about calling them wolfy:

Alright Seanzie looks good page 1

I liked Neon's posts tbh.

I guess the players I actually townread are Baudib1, Neon and Seanzie. Maybe lucy too but need more from her.

Alison
DrWilgy
Kate
RondoDimBuckle
sig
tutuu

should contain wolves

Somebody do something to make me feel something.

I'm listening to Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell, and got Rich Gurl by Hall & Oates qued up next.



Get hyped.



What's your take on Wilgy?

lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go

i think the last post in particular isn't really a post that my mental model of creature as town would make. saying "X player has an inaccurate readslist, so he can go" feels like a bizarre amount of confidence from a player who is usually very hedgy and very worried about having an incorrect view of the game

maybe im reading too much into the meta stuff but yeah idk, i just feel like creature might be playing from a position of TMI and that he is forming a worldview too easily compared to what i just saw from him in a game like 2 weeks ago

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: creature ] aubergine

Oh don't worry, I'll get to you, Jess.

im looking forward to it <3

[Dennis]

@Dennis town === falcon equity and sig equity maybe / Why are you wishy washing on Kate. Make a read, town or wolf? Why not voting for lucy or Neon? Why havent you voted yet?

I am wishy washy on Kate because I don't make reads off of two posts. I can't do that I need more content.

Lucy and Neon both remind me of their other civ games. When I played against mafia!Lucy she was kinda dragging the thread into things that weren't really important (like in LGM when she focused on me/kate/jack being in the same family for so long) and she isn't doing that here, nor did she do that in Felt. Neon I have less to say about, but I like how she said she's screwing around because we're all friends here and not just murdering each other.

I don't like voting early. Why do I have to vote 1/4th of the way through D1?

Do you believe i'm incapable of acting this way as a wolf?

I'd have to see you as mafia first probably. But this feels the EXACT same and I would be madly impressed if you could fo this as mafia.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I actually dig the SPF Creature case in a vacuum. Not voting there, though.

[tutuu]

i didnt question all the townreads on baudi i assumed meta but they keep coming and i keep not seeing anything to townread

[staypositivefriend]

I'll prob only be able to do good stuff after D1. I can't function without flips and seeing how wagons work on non-me players. Wagoning me here is detrimental to town.

also this post activates my fight or flight instincts with the way that creature worded it, even tho admittedly sometimes creature just makes post like that as both alignments

[Dennis]

So kate is dennis's mom. Thats just too wholesome. My mom has also expressed interest in playing mafia. She cant speak english. But its just too adorable. How can i vote kate. If my mom was playing with me how could i vote her?

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

If my mom played she'd be my d1 policy vote and my n1 policy yeet.

Well she NKd me last game so that was nice of her

[staypositivefriend]

I keep thinking there are 4 mafia but trying to remember there are 5. Quite a lot. I wonder how many ive wrongly townread already. Lol if all 5

also i know it's a very stupid and level 0 tell but i think this post is probably town indicative because whenever someone expresses confusion about how many wolves they are, theyre town roughly 80% of the time. it's a tell that wolves usually don't think to make bcuz u have to yield ur TMI kind of weirdly to come up with that type of thought as a wolf

[Jackofhearts2005]

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I keep thinking there are 4 mafia but trying to remember there are 5. Quite a lot. I wonder how many ive wrongly townread already. Lol if all 5

also i know it's a very stupid and level 0 tell but i think this post is probably town indicative because whenever someone expresses confusion about how many wolves they are, theyre town roughly 80% of the time. it's a tell that wolves usually don't think to make bcuz u have to yield ur TMI kind of weirdly to come up with that type of thought as a wolf

Rejected.

[tutuu]

So kate is dennis's mom. Thats just too wholesome. My mom has also expressed interest in playing mafia. She cant speak english. But its just too adorable. How can i vote kate. If my mom was playing with me how could i vote her?

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

If my mom played she'd be my d1 policy vote and my n1 policy yeet.

Well she NKd me last game so that was nice of her

WOW i cant believe it

my mom used to play an online game with a clan, she invited me, i played a bit and went inactive, they kicked me for inactivity, she got mad at them and flamed them all and left it. she told me "how dare they kick my precious child"? i love my mom. shes an angel

[staypositivefriend]

Somebody do something to make me feel something.

I'm listening to Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell, and got Rich Gurl by Hall & Oates qued up next.



Get hyped.



What's your take on Wilgy?

lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go

Yeah, but it's D1...weird reason to SR him IMO

The same can be said to literally any wolfread rn. Gotta start somewhere.

No, that's not true. Lots of legit reasons to SR a player can & do emerge D1, but to SR a player just cuz you feel they have 0 wolves in a list of 3 is utter crap

If someone's wolf list consists mostly of towny players/ml baits then there's a massive dissonance which could point a wolf.

also not to dunk on creature but he literally spent the entirety of the game we just played together repping a 0/3 solve so im struggling to understand how this is a legitimate thought that would come from him

[staypositivefriend]

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

[Alison]

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

Have you provided a single reason in your entire catchup or are you just writing "This post is [synonym for bad]" and then moving on without any analysis

[Jackofhearts2005]

The only reason I'm not voting for Alison is because Alison gave me shit for "not scumreading" her and it has reverse psychologied me into not wanting to vote her.

But that's not a good reason. Alison's posts are the worst I've read and she's >rand scum. [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

[staypositivefriend]

@RondoDimBuckle pretty sure the level of tryharding i put into the thread has zero correlation to my alignment, furthermore my spew is notoriously hard to read so i’m pretty sure that analysis won’t do shit even if i was a wolf. so my question is, why do you think that it will, and why do you think that wim matters?

also i thought u were bluffing or calling me a wolf, i thought getting u to verbalize those thoughts make your thoughts about 2 wolves above this line super wolfy

which is why i SR you atm

this is the towniest post from lucy so far

[staypositivefriend]

why do u think that alison's reads are wolf-indicative? i thought that the original post she pointed out from kate was legitimately wolfy, or i could at least understand why someone would take issue with it. do u think the ppl she's pushing (kate/roxy) are town?

[Alison]

Only > rand, not even >> rand. smh

[Jackofhearts2005]

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

[Alison]

why do u think that alison's reads are wolf-indicative? i thought that the original post she pointed out from kate was legitimately wolfy, or i could at least understand why someone would take issue with it. do u think the ppl she's pushing (kate/roxy) are town?

So you've caught up enough to see me v roxy? Thoughts there?

[staypositivefriend]

usually i do

also there’s just always a wolf in alison/spf

okay i think lucy is town now lol

[Jackofhearts2005]

You know what's nice @MacDougall ?

Polls in mafia games.

[staypositivefriend]

why do u think that alison's reads are wolf-indicative? i thought that the original post she pointed out from kate was legitimately wolfy, or i could at least understand why someone would take issue with it. do u think the ppl she's pushing (kate/roxy) are town?

So you've caught up enough to see me v roxy? Thoughts there?

i've caught up enough to see that you are pushing on roxy but not to see the details of the exchange. give me like 10 mins

[Alison]

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

Alison is well known for not being convinced kate and roxy are scum

[Baudib1]

I wonder if W!Creature, having not played with me in many years, would play like this and call me his top townread in a game full of people who don’t know me. I would think not but then maybe it would be a clever approach to the game. I actually don’t remember what he thinks of me in general so maybe none of this matters much.

Anyway Creature is town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

usually i do

also there’s just always a wolf in alison/spf

While SPF is quoting it, legit I'm more or less focusing on Alison and SPF because of this post and recent historical games where I've correctly scumread Alison and/or SPF when they were wolves and most players didn't.

I've not liked Alison's posts about others or reactions to my posts about her.

I have liked SPF's posts about others and her reactions to my posts about her.

Fwiw.

[Jackofhearts2005]

#hedging

#cantbesuperwrongifyouhedgeattheend

[Alison]

I think jack is outed for insinuating that alison would never go balls to the wall trying to kill a player d1 for doing nothing

[Kate]

I think Roxy is town. They're being too deliberately provocative.

it's clearly their natural personality and won't change regardless of their alignment

that's like townreading mac for being loud or me for being direct

You do not even know me but your are clearly wrong. Buh-bye.

Yeah, I'm sure you immediately become polite and soft-spoken when you see the red role PM hit your inbox.

You couldn't be more wrong about that. And I absolutely know more about her than you do.

How's that? No waffle

[Baudib1]

I think jack is outed for insinuating that alison would never go balls to the wall trying to kill a player d1 for doing nothing

Let’s kill him.

[staypositivefriend]

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

okay

so then what do you think about alison's original reason for pushing on kate? do you think it looks like alison is talking about kate in a bad faith way?

I agree with SPF that this is a super unexciting game so far. I am just gonna vote the easiest wolf to catch and try to break the game open with associatives.

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

Also from my limited games with rondo he seems to be playing within his civ meta right now so probably wouldn’t want to vote their today

Just read through once and I for now agree on this. This is almost identical to the way he opened the last game and he was civ. Unless of course, he's doing that to make us think that... anyway nothing about his gameplay pings me thus far.

Lots of pings in this thread for a cold day 1 from many people. I'll have to reread tomorrow for any deeper thoughts.

Explain to me what's obvscum about this post

She agrees with Rondo meta, immediately undermines her own view, then promises a future reread (a reread? Thread was literally 2 pages) that has to happen before she gives any deeper thoughts. It's a waffly nothingburger of a post.

because i can understand why the thought of: "this player isn't doing enough" could be wolfy to say about someone this early into the game, but i also feel like you're singling out that specific post from alison without seeming to factor her original reason for pushing kate in the first place into your analysis. it feels like incomplete analysis

[Alison]

I think Roxy is town. They're being too deliberately provocative.

it's clearly their natural personality and won't change regardless of their alignment

that's like townreading mac for being loud or me for being direct

You do not even know me but your are clearly wrong. Buh-bye.

Yeah, I'm sure you immediately become polite and soft-spoken when you see the red role PM hit your inbox.

You couldn't be more wrong about that. And I absolutely know more about her than you do.

How's that? No waffle

It was sarcasm, so if im wrong that means im actually right

[Jackofhearts2005]

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

Alison is well known for not being convinced kate and roxy are scum

Rephrase?

I'm saying I don't expect you to make that post as a townie unless you really think Kate is scum and it is part of an effort to yeet your scumread.

You're saying you don't think Kate is scum. That's not contradicting what I'm saying so I feel like one of us is misunderstanding the other in this exchange.

[Alison]

I think jack is outed for insinuating that alison would never go balls to the wall trying to kill a player d1 for doing nothing

Let’s kill him.

Roxy is more outed though

[staypositivefriend]

I wonder if W!Creature, having not played with me in many years, would play like this and call me his top townread in a game full of people who don’t know me. I would think not but then maybe it would be a clever approach to the game. I actually don’t remember what he thinks of me in general so maybe none of this matters much.

Anyway Creature is town.

why? do u have any thoughts on the stuff i posted about him on this page?

[Alison]

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

Alison is well known for not being convinced kate and roxy are scum

Rephrase?

I'm saying I don't expect you to make that post as a townie unless you really think Kate is scum and it is part of an effort to yeet your scumread.

You're saying you don't think Kate is scum. That's not contradicting what I'm saying so I feel like one of us is misunderstanding the other in this exchange.

It was sarcastic. I'm saying it should be very clear that I'm convinced Kate and Roxy are scum so you saying "this post only comes from town if Alison thinks Kate and Roxy are scum" is a meaningless read. Roxy even scumread me for how convinced I was that Kate was scum.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think jack is outed for insinuating that alison would never go balls to the wall trying to kill a player d1 for doing nothing

Didn't you push this kinda narrative last time I correctly scumread you? Just like blanket certain scumread with no oomph behind it?

Maybe it's just an Alison thing in general but it feels familiar one way or the other and I'm gonna go check in a bit.