Se7en Mafia [GAME OVER- MAFIA WIN]

[S~V~S]

I am finally caught up!!

I’m gonna walk the dog, go to bed and digest. I’ll post my reads in the AM. And since I sincerely doubt my boss will take me out to lunch again tomorrow, I should also be around more tomorrow.

Night you egregious people.

[Dubz]

@RondoDimBuckle also, is there anyone from your sin list who you think is most likely to be John Doe?

[Roxy]

Porscha - Eliminated Day 1- Det. Lt. William Somerset (Town) - posts
DaughterOfOmega - Killed Night 1 - Diligence (Town) - posts
Kate - Eliminated Day 2 - Lust (Deadly Sin) - posts
tutuu - Died Night 2 - Humility (Town) - posts
Zenon - Died Night 2 - Kindness (Town) - posts
pyxxy - Died Night 2 - Pride (Deadly Sin - Mafia-aligned) - posts
Seanzie - Shot Day 3 - Martin Talbot, DA (Town) - posts

If Rondo's theory is right, kindness has become mafia because of Zenon's death. Sloth has become mafia due to Doom's death. Pyxxy became mafia because of Tutuu's death. Presumably Kate dying has made "Chastity" more powerful somehow? There would be likely at least some boon both ways if the counterpart dies you would think?

All we know for sure though is that Kate could become mafia after 2 people opened her gift and then only gained BTSC the next night.

If that's how all the sins can become mafia then none of the sins could have BTSC with John Doe yet.

But Pyxxy was mafia already, so it's clear that's not the only way to become mafia.

Pyxxy's role information didn't flip, Kate's did. Is it because Pyxxy died in the night and was janitored while Kate was limmed, or was it because Kate was still an LMS and Pyxxy was mafia? Don't know yet. We need to figure this out though and Dennis's chop may get us a little closer.

Janitor role is something uncommon here. But I do like this theory a bit more now.

[RondoDimBuckle]

S~V~S - Town
Macdougall - Town
DrWilgy -
falcon45ca -
Dennis - Sin
Epignosis -
RondoDimBuckle - Town
jackofhearts2005 -
Michelle -
Roxy - Town
Dubz -
Thunal33 - Town
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME -
Matahari -

So 3 anti town are dead, 5 to go.

I neeed to sort this list to have 5 baddies so here is my anti trust fall



S~V~S - Town
Macdougall - Town
RondoDimBuckle - Town
Roxy - Town
Thunal33 - Town
---------------

Epignosis - Town
jackofhearts2005 - Town
Matahari - Town
Dubz - Town

Michelle - Sin
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Sin
DrWilgy - Sin
falcon45ca - Sin
--------------------
Dennis - Sin


=====
@MacDougall

Why is falcon sin?

Why isnt falcon sin?

[RondoDimBuckle]

@RondoDimBuckle also, is there anyone from your sin list who you think is most likely to be John Doe?

Ill answer after you do

[RondoDimBuckle]

Just in case you think I am being coy Dubz. You have done nothing this game fmpov the only reason you are town for me is because Neon said some things which implied she liked you which I am going to read over tonight and see if I read wrong. You have done nothing to push the game state, done nothing to find wolves, done nothing to find town. You cant just come up in here demanding answers from me without providing any yourself. Do something or ill switch you for falcon.

[RondoDimBuckle]

anyway off to take a lovely drive in the country, love and kisses and what not, good vibes and butt rainbows <3 xoxoxox

[Roxy]

Is there a sort of...thread consensus POE so I can prioritize ISOs? I've only really looked at flips and where I was mentioned (will get to that shortly), and I skimmed end of D2 last night.

ok sheep if ya like but maybe it might be better to come up with your *own* poe. Bc you are in mine so prioritize yourself please.

I'm not just sheeping, otherwise I wouldn't be bothering with the ISOs. It's going to be impossible for me to read everyone right now so I was asking for help prioritizing and I will make my own decisions on the people I have time to look at.

So thank you for the unhelpful post lol

And your post about me having less posts than you was helpful? Gtk.

[Epignosis]

MacDougall:

You scream how much you are "solving," but you're not. You're guessing. Which is fine. You're being loud with those guesses. That's also fine. But I read your long p90x spiel that rambled, and my thought was "But there aren't enough players to match the roles for that theory." Someone else immediately raised that point and you said Nanook didn't read to the end of your nonsense. But what does it matter? Do you believe your nonsense?

Pretend your theory is correct: What do you DO with that idea if it's right?

And after that it was just a meltdown. Your second one this game.

I am not sorry at all for calling this nonsense out for what it is.

At best it's terrible town play from the both of you. Hiding behind bogus "I'm sheeping Seanzie" crap doesn't track for fuck because I've been townier than Seanzie on day 3 by about 50. I don't even give a shit about him outing Kate. I outed Kate as well. You have no reason to take this line with me. I am blatantly obvious town and I'm not just gonna cop it. It's my job as a townie to call out bullshit like this.

If Seanzie actually alignment checks me, he needs to find a new hobby for real. It's an absolutely woeful decision. Almost as bad as the decision you and him have both apparently found yourselves to in tilting me off the map while I was actually hyper solving the fucking game. That's actually just super wolfy honestly. Here I am actually getting my hands dirty and solving and now of all times you decide tilting me off the reservation is optimal?

The last game we just finished and won, you called me either a liar or an idiot. If you don't recall that post, I'll grab it.

I was not a liar. And my play (Jailkeeping Cape) helped bring us to a swift Day 2 win. Which meant, according to your assessment, I was stupid.

I don't take offense at that- I've got thick skin- so whatever.

But not everybody thinks like you, and without any ounce of disrespect intended, that's a damn good thing.

[MacDougall]

MacDougall:

You scream how much you are "solving," but you're not. You're guessing. Which is fine. You're being loud with those guesses. That's also fine. But I read your long p90x spiel that rambled, and my thought was "But there aren't enough players to match the roles for that theory." Someone else immediately raised that point and you said Nanook didn't read to the end of your nonsense. But what does it matter? Do you believe your nonsense?

Pretend your theory is correct: What do you DO with that idea if it's right?

And after that it was just a meltdown. Your second one this game.

I am not sorry at all for calling this nonsense out for what it is.

At best it's terrible town play from the both of you. Hiding behind bogus "I'm sheeping Seanzie" crap doesn't track for fuck because I've been townier than Seanzie on day 3 by about 50. I don't even give a shit about him outing Kate. I outed Kate as well. You have no reason to take this line with me. I am blatantly obvious town and I'm not just gonna cop it. It's my job as a townie to call out bullshit like this.

If Seanzie actually alignment checks me, he needs to find a new hobby for real. It's an absolutely woeful decision. Almost as bad as the decision you and him have both apparently found yourselves to in tilting me off the map while I was actually hyper solving the fucking game. That's actually just super wolfy honestly. Here I am actually getting my hands dirty and solving and now of all times you decide tilting me off the reservation is optimal?

The last game we just finished and won, you called me either a liar or an idiot. If you don't recall that post, I'll grab it.

I was not a liar. And my play (Jailkeeping Cape) helped bring us to a swift Day 2 win. Which meant, according to your assessment, I was stupid.

I don't take offense at that- I've got thick skin- so whatever.

But not everybody thinks like you, and without any ounce of disrespect intended, that's a damn good thing.

uhhh what's your intention with this?

[Dubz]

Just in case you think I am being coy Dubz. You have done nothing this game fmpov the only reason you are town for me is because Neon said some things which implied she liked you which I am going to read over tonight and see if I read wrong. You have done nothing to push the game state, done nothing to find wolves, done nothing to find town. You cant just come up in here demanding answers from me without providing any yourself. Do something or ill switch you for falcon.

I'm not demanding, I'm literally just asking a question so I can try to understand your perspective. I already talked earlier about why I still have falcon as town after reading his ISO.

I don't know why you're responding to me like this, or why Roxy went off on me for a post where I was asking for help in getting caught up on the gamestate, and honestly it doesn't make me feel inclined to keep trying.

It's a fucking game and real life took precedence for me for a couple days. Like the audacity to rake me over the coals for not doing anything in response to me trying to do something...

[Epignosis]

Earlier, I was made to post in ways that alluded to the seven deadly sins.

If you will notice, my first post was lust, my second (to S~V~S) was envy, etc.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. I am free to post normally.

Do we really believe Epi had a curse? What if he was just trying to encourage the sins to signal to him?

I'm voting MacDougall out of basic, angry revenge.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

The most annoying shit ever for me is when I put faith in myself I'm wrong and when I doubt myself I'm right and it literally makes playing mafia so frustrating.

Anyways I was right on Doom that's cool. Why the fuck did they kill Doom.

Fear kill.

I don't agree. My thinking is a redirection is in play.

Most of Epi's ISO is like, okay in a "this is standard Epi" way but these two posts on day 2 kind of stand out as being awkward for him. @Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy @S~V~S you probably have the most experience with him. These posts lack the curmudgeonliness I associate with town Epi. Like he seems a bit more proactive, in a not very good way?

On the curse thing, I do think it's weird since I don't think anyone else had a forced roleplay or any sort of restriction beyond mine and Tutuu's notes warning us not to talk much yesterday.

I acknowledged that I was horsing around.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Just in case you think I am being coy Dubz. You have done nothing this game fmpov the only reason you are town for me is because Neon said some things which implied she liked you which I am going to read over tonight and see if I read wrong. You have done nothing to push the game state, done nothing to find wolves, done nothing to find town. You cant just come up in here demanding answers from me without providing any yourself. Do something or ill switch you for falcon.

I'm not demanding, I'm literally just asking a question so I can try to understand your perspective. I already talked earlier about why I still have falcon as town after reading his ISO.

I don't know why you're responding to me like this, or why Roxy went off on me for a post where I was asking for help in getting caught up on the gamestate, and honestly it doesn't make me feel inclined to keep trying.

It's a fucking game and real life took precedence for me for a couple days. Like the audacity to rake me over the coals for not doing anything in response to me trying to do something...

I just wanted to see how you would respond

[Dubz]

Is there a sort of...thread consensus POE so I can prioritize ISOs? I've only really looked at flips and where I was mentioned (will get to that shortly), and I skimmed end of D2 last night.

ok sheep if ya like but maybe it might be better to come up with your *own* poe. Bc you are in mine so prioritize yourself please.

I'm not just sheeping, otherwise I wouldn't be bothering with the ISOs. It's going to be impossible for me to read everyone right now so I was asking for help prioritizing and I will make my own decisions on the people I have time to look at.

So thank you for the unhelpful post lol

And your post about me having less posts than you was helpful? Gtk.

That post was intended as a joke.

It is wholly unhelpful to be like "get your own POE and btw you're in mine" when I'm asking for assistance.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Dubz take my list pls and reorder it how you would want it ty

[Epignosis]

MacDougall:

You scream how much you are "solving," but you're not. You're guessing. Which is fine. You're being loud with those guesses. That's also fine. But I read your long p90x spiel that rambled, and my thought was "But there aren't enough players to match the roles for that theory." Someone else immediately raised that point and you said Nanook didn't read to the end of your nonsense. But what does it matter? Do you believe your nonsense?

Pretend your theory is correct: What do you DO with that idea if it's right?

And after that it was just a meltdown. Your second one this game.

I am not sorry at all for calling this nonsense out for what it is.

At best it's terrible town play from the both of you. Hiding behind bogus "I'm sheeping Seanzie" crap doesn't track for fuck because I've been townier than Seanzie on day 3 by about 50. I don't even give a shit about him outing Kate. I outed Kate as well. You have no reason to take this line with me. I am blatantly obvious town and I'm not just gonna cop it. It's my job as a townie to call out bullshit like this.

If Seanzie actually alignment checks me, he needs to find a new hobby for real. It's an absolutely woeful decision. Almost as bad as the decision you and him have both apparently found yourselves to in tilting me off the map while I was actually hyper solving the fucking game. That's actually just super wolfy honestly. Here I am actually getting my hands dirty and solving and now of all times you decide tilting me off the reservation is optimal?

The last game we just finished and won, you called me either a liar or an idiot. If you don't recall that post, I'll grab it.

I was not a liar. And my play (Jailkeeping Cape) helped bring us to a swift Day 2 win. Which meant, according to your assessment, I was stupid.

I don't take offense at that- I've got thick skin- so whatever.

But not everybody thinks like you, and without any ounce of disrespect intended, that's a damn good thing.

uhhh what's your intention with this?

Which part?

If it's the first, I think it's pretty straightforward: How is your theory actionable for everyone else if it's correct?

If it's the second, I think it's pretty straightforward.

[MacDougall]

I scream how much I'm solving but I'm not, I'm guessing... okay? I am trying to solve by throwing ideas around to see what people think of them. Is that better?

That theory was just the initial diatribe of me trying to get my thoughts out, I've posted probably 100 times since then so ... I dunno maybe see if my most recent theorising suits you more? Do I believe my nonsense? Well at the time I would say that I was trying to flesh out an inkling so no I don't believe my nonsense, but also by the end of the post I had stopped with the notion that John Doe wasn't a specific role and pivoted to the idea that John Doe could just role swap which is what Pyxxy implied hence why i said Nanook hadn't read the entire post.

So when you then ask pretend my theory is correct, what do I do with it when it's right... well I don't think that initial theory you're talking about is right, I abandoned it before I even finished that post. But the point is I am trying to figure out whether we have to hunt John Doe hard specifically or if it's safe to just take the easy chops on offer.

Yes I had a meltdown again. Sorry for that, thanks for reminding me.

Yes you did great in that game and calling you a liar and an idiot for something that led to a win was pretty dumb of me. Good job. Egg on my face.

Thanks for the kick in the balls in the last sentence though. Not sure how I'm meant to take that as not disrespect intended lol.

[MacDougall]

MacDougall:

You scream how much you are "solving," but you're not. You're guessing. Which is fine. You're being loud with those guesses. That's also fine. But I read your long p90x spiel that rambled, and my thought was "But there aren't enough players to match the roles for that theory." Someone else immediately raised that point and you said Nanook didn't read to the end of your nonsense. But what does it matter? Do you believe your nonsense?

Pretend your theory is correct: What do you DO with that idea if it's right?

And after that it was just a meltdown. Your second one this game.

I am not sorry at all for calling this nonsense out for what it is.

At best it's terrible town play from the both of you. Hiding behind bogus "I'm sheeping Seanzie" crap doesn't track for fuck because I've been townier than Seanzie on day 3 by about 50. I don't even give a shit about him outing Kate. I outed Kate as well. You have no reason to take this line with me. I am blatantly obvious town and I'm not just gonna cop it. It's my job as a townie to call out bullshit like this.

If Seanzie actually alignment checks me, he needs to find a new hobby for real. It's an absolutely woeful decision. Almost as bad as the decision you and him have both apparently found yourselves to in tilting me off the map while I was actually hyper solving the fucking game. That's actually just super wolfy honestly. Here I am actually getting my hands dirty and solving and now of all times you decide tilting me off the reservation is optimal?

The last game we just finished and won, you called me either a liar or an idiot. If you don't recall that post, I'll grab it.

I was not a liar. And my play (Jailkeeping Cape) helped bring us to a swift Day 2 win. Which meant, according to your assessment, I was stupid.

I don't take offense at that- I've got thick skin- so whatever.

But not everybody thinks like you, and without any ounce of disrespect intended, that's a damn good thing.

uhhh what's your intention with this?

Which part?

If it's the first, I think it's pretty straightforward: How is your theory actionable for everyone else if it's correct?

If it's the second, I think it's pretty straightforward.

Well if it's the straightforward answer then I'm taking it as "you're just hanging shit on me for the sake of it". Please confirm.

[Roxy]

Just in case you think I am being coy Dubz. You have done nothing this game fmpov the only reason you are town for me is because Neon said some things which implied she liked you which I am going to read over tonight and see if I read wrong. You have done nothing to push the game state, done nothing to find wolves, done nothing to find town. You cant just come up in here demanding answers from me without providing any yourself. Do something or ill switch you for falcon.

I'm not demanding, I'm literally just asking a question so I can try to understand your perspective. I already talked earlier about why I still have falcon as town after reading his ISO.

I don't know why you're responding to me like this, or why Roxy went off on me for a post where I was asking for help in getting caught up on the gamestate, and honestly it doesn't make me feel inclined to keep trying.

It's a fucking game and real life took precedence for me for a couple days. Like the audacity to rake me over the coals for not doing anything in response to me trying to do something...

I didn't go off on you.

Sorry about your rl I get it.

I was just telling you that you are in my poe. I thought it might make you do some reads instead of just sheeping someone else. Most of the poe's today have been different. We need townies to solve not just sheep imo.

This just a game. I'm loving this theme and set up. Don't let me ruin your game.

You can ignore me and I won't be mad.

Now game the way you want and I'll do the same.

[Epignosis]

@Epignosis you suggested the first night kill may have been redirection. I’m not sure how you arrived at that, or if it was just a suggestion, like a possibility in a role madness game. Can you clear that up?

DOOM was an unlikely Night 1 kill in the traditional sense. So the latter- just a suggestion.

[Epignosis]

MacDougall:

You scream how much you are "solving," but you're not. You're guessing. Which is fine. You're being loud with those guesses. That's also fine. But I read your long p90x spiel that rambled, and my thought was "But there aren't enough players to match the roles for that theory." Someone else immediately raised that point and you said Nanook didn't read to the end of your nonsense. But what does it matter? Do you believe your nonsense?

Pretend your theory is correct: What do you DO with that idea if it's right?

And after that it was just a meltdown. Your second one this game.

I am not sorry at all for calling this nonsense out for what it is.

At best it's terrible town play from the both of you. Hiding behind bogus "I'm sheeping Seanzie" crap doesn't track for fuck because I've been townier than Seanzie on day 3 by about 50. I don't even give a shit about him outing Kate. I outed Kate as well. You have no reason to take this line with me. I am blatantly obvious town and I'm not just gonna cop it. It's my job as a townie to call out bullshit like this.

If Seanzie actually alignment checks me, he needs to find a new hobby for real. It's an absolutely woeful decision. Almost as bad as the decision you and him have both apparently found yourselves to in tilting me off the map while I was actually hyper solving the fucking game. That's actually just super wolfy honestly. Here I am actually getting my hands dirty and solving and now of all times you decide tilting me off the reservation is optimal?

The last game we just finished and won, you called me either a liar or an idiot. If you don't recall that post, I'll grab it.

I was not a liar. And my play (Jailkeeping Cape) helped bring us to a swift Day 2 win. Which meant, according to your assessment, I was stupid.

I don't take offense at that- I've got thick skin- so whatever.

But not everybody thinks like you, and without any ounce of disrespect intended, that's a damn good thing.

uhhh what's your intention with this?

Which part?

If it's the first, I think it's pretty straightforward: How is your theory actionable for everyone else if it's correct?

If it's the second, I think it's pretty straightforward.

Well if it's the straightforward answer then I'm taking it as "you're just hanging shit on me for the sake of it". Please confirm.

I'm asking you to be a kinder person and recognize this is a game on the Internet with no cash prizes or fabulous vacations.

[MacDougall]

Taking it in good faith the long and short of it is I don't really see the benefit in further unpacking the random speculation I made 24 hours ago that I abandoned while making the post.

Present theory is there in most recent posts.

Summarised for your benefit:

Pyxxy seemed to slip that there is a "role solving" element to the sins prior to flipping.

He died and didn't role flip which makes me wonder why he flipped differently to Kate who full flipped.

Presently wondering whether that is simply because he was already mafia or not.

Fact that he was already mafia means that two people opening gifts as in the case of Kate is not the only way to become mafia. So trying to work out whether the hidden part of JD's visible role is how that works, or whether Rondo's idea that they become mafia when their counterpart dies is what happens (which he has now suggested he no longer believes).

Trying to figure it all out because:

a) Dennis and Kate both seem/seemed way to eager to bite it which makes me sus that killing sins isn't good enough
b) If role swapping is real, then that lends itself harder to the notion that killing sins isn't good enough
c) It's a game, i'm into it, curious about stuff and it feels worthy of discussion?

[MacDougall]

MacDougall:

You scream how much you are "solving," but you're not. You're guessing. Which is fine. You're being loud with those guesses. That's also fine. But I read your long p90x spiel that rambled, and my thought was "But there aren't enough players to match the roles for that theory." Someone else immediately raised that point and you said Nanook didn't read to the end of your nonsense. But what does it matter? Do you believe your nonsense?

Pretend your theory is correct: What do you DO with that idea if it's right?

And after that it was just a meltdown. Your second one this game.

I am not sorry at all for calling this nonsense out for what it is.

At best it's terrible town play from the both of you. Hiding behind bogus "I'm sheeping Seanzie" crap doesn't track for fuck because I've been townier than Seanzie on day 3 by about 50. I don't even give a shit about him outing Kate. I outed Kate as well. You have no reason to take this line with me. I am blatantly obvious town and I'm not just gonna cop it. It's my job as a townie to call out bullshit like this.

If Seanzie actually alignment checks me, he needs to find a new hobby for real. It's an absolutely woeful decision. Almost as bad as the decision you and him have both apparently found yourselves to in tilting me off the map while I was actually hyper solving the fucking game. That's actually just super wolfy honestly. Here I am actually getting my hands dirty and solving and now of all times you decide tilting me off the reservation is optimal?

The last game we just finished and won, you called me either a liar or an idiot. If you don't recall that post, I'll grab it.

I was not a liar. And my play (Jailkeeping Cape) helped bring us to a swift Day 2 win. Which meant, according to your assessment, I was stupid.

I don't take offense at that- I've got thick skin- so whatever.

But not everybody thinks like you, and without any ounce of disrespect intended, that's a damn good thing.

uhhh what's your intention with this?

Which part?

If it's the first, I think it's pretty straightforward: How is your theory actionable for everyone else if it's correct?

If it's the second, I think it's pretty straightforward.

Well if it's the straightforward answer then I'm taking it as "you're just hanging shit on me for the sake of it". Please confirm.

I'm asking you to be a kinder person and recognize this is a game on the Internet with no cash prizes or fabulous vacations.

Yes calling you an idiot or lying was harsh. Sorry, you're right.

Yes having a meltdown over a mafia game is cringe and lame. You're right.

You're not telling me things I'm unaware of. Let's talk about the game instead.

[MacDougall]

Your perspective here is probably very helpful honestly because honestly I think your game building mindset is most like Scotty's so your instincts about the setup are probably better than mine.

[Epignosis]

Let's talk about the game instead.

Appreciate it homie.

I need...ten minutes to wrap up work, fifteen minutes to shower, and one more to get a bourbon, and I'll be back.

I tried to read P90X30 last night but wasn't getting anywhere. Will try again.

[MacDougall]

So I got a note that said that it'd be wise to vote for Seanzie today.

Last time someone got a note and then didn't do what they were told they died.

Seanzie is now dead and I can't vote for him.

This concerns me lol.

[S~V~S]

GAME RULES:

• 48/24 cycles, locked nights.
• No vanilla roles; many roles will have unconventional powers.
• Role claiming is NOT ALLOWED; info dumping IS allowed, but do so at your own risk.. (this means do not claim or hint at your character by name, but you can claim what ability/action you have)
• You may not share a picture of or quote word-for-word anything from your Role PM
• Most, if not all, of a role’s descriptions may be revealed with lynches. However, only role names are usually revealed with any other types of kills.
• All communication, including the initial role PM, will be handled via your private discord channel in the Se7en server
• No outside communication with players unless specifically authorized
• Always remember that we are playing a game together on an Internet forum. Be kind and considerate as you are also being competitive, and be mindful of how your words might be received by others beyond the scope of a Mafia game.

ACTIONS:

Spoiler: show

• Please submit all actions 1 HOUR before end of phase unless explicitly stated, for my sanity. Or what’s left of it.
• NO double targeting
• You MAY NOT self-target, unless the role specifies otherwise.

VOTING RULES:

Spoiler: show

• You MUST post your vote in thread as well as the poll to count.
• There are no hammers; votes may be changed at any time.
• Voting is by plurality
• Ties will be randomized

OTHER IMPORTANT NOTES

Spoiler: show

There will be SPOILERS in this game if you haven’t seen the movie. I have taken liberties with some plot lines, but the essence is the same. So...I’d suggest watch the movie before playing, because it’s an amazing movie.
Also note that I have attempted extensive play testing with the balance of this game, and while I think it is as fair as I can make it, it is a role madness type where things can swing wildly depending on choices made. In the spirit of all things transparent, there are elements to this game that some might consider “unconventional”:
-There is vote manipulation tied to role abilities.
-3rd Parties have the opportunity to change alignment in this game, and have been notified as such.
-There are no jesters, no death millers, no resurrections. All lynch reveals will be genuine, with alignment given. Most importantly, host posts and messages directly from me will never lie.
All relevant info will be revealed postgame.

@MacDougall the rules say full roles reveal for yeets, and only names with other deaths.

[MacDougall]

But at least we know that one of the villian's kp is threatening town to do things that aren't good for town and then killing them if they don't do what they're told.

So uhhh... if you get made demands of in this game, respond accordingly.

[Dubz]

Dubz take my list pls and reorder it how you would want it ty

The only read I had a problem with to where I would move him would be falcon.

I agree with your Mac and Thunal town reads, and I'm fine with nanook and Wilgy (and Dennis obvs) as POE. I don't have strong feelings on anyone else at the moment though I'm working on it.

[MacDougall]

GAME RULES:

• 48/24 cycles, locked nights.
• No vanilla roles; many roles will have unconventional powers.
• Role claiming is NOT ALLOWED; info dumping IS allowed, but do so at your own risk.. (this means do not claim or hint at your character by name, but you can claim what ability/action you have)
• You may not share a picture of or quote word-for-word anything from your Role PM
• Most, if not all, of a role’s descriptions may be revealed with lynches. However, only role names are usually revealed with any other types of kills.
• All communication, including the initial role PM, will be handled via your private discord channel in the Se7en server
• No outside communication with players unless specifically authorized
• Always remember that we are playing a game together on an Internet forum. Be kind and considerate as you are also being competitive, and be mindful of how your words might be received by others beyond the scope of a Mafia game.

ACTIONS:

Spoiler: show

• Please submit all actions 1 HOUR before end of phase unless explicitly stated, for my sanity. Or what’s left of it.
• NO double targeting
• You MAY NOT self-target, unless the role specifies otherwise.

VOTING RULES:

Spoiler: show

• You MUST post your vote in thread as well as the poll to count.
• There are no hammers; votes may be changed at any time.
• Voting is by plurality
• Ties will be randomized

OTHER IMPORTANT NOTES

Spoiler: show

There will be SPOILERS in this game if you haven’t seen the movie. I have taken liberties with some plot lines, but the essence is the same. So...I’d suggest watch the movie before playing, because it’s an amazing movie.
Also note that I have attempted extensive play testing with the balance of this game, and while I think it is as fair as I can make it, it is a role madness type where things can swing wildly depending on choices made. In the spirit of all things transparent, there are elements to this game that some might consider “unconventional”:
-There is vote manipulation tied to role abilities.
-3rd Parties have the opportunity to change alignment in this game, and have been notified as such.
-There are no jesters, no death millers, no resurrections. All lynch reveals will be genuine, with alignment given. Most importantly, host posts and messages directly from me will never lie.
All relevant info will be revealed postgame.

@MacDougall the rules say full roles reveal for yeets, and only names with other deaths.

Thank you for doing basic due diligence when I refused to lol.

[RondoDimBuckle]

BTW in case it wasnt obvious Dubz is town

[Dubz]

Just in case you think I am being coy Dubz. You have done nothing this game fmpov the only reason you are town for me is because Neon said some things which implied she liked you which I am going to read over tonight and see if I read wrong. You have done nothing to push the game state, done nothing to find wolves, done nothing to find town. You cant just come up in here demanding answers from me without providing any yourself. Do something or ill switch you for falcon.

I'm not demanding, I'm literally just asking a question so I can try to understand your perspective. I already talked earlier about why I still have falcon as town after reading his ISO.

I don't know why you're responding to me like this, or why Roxy went off on me for a post where I was asking for help in getting caught up on the gamestate, and honestly it doesn't make me feel inclined to keep trying.

It's a fucking game and real life took precedence for me for a couple days. Like the audacity to rake me over the coals for not doing anything in response to me trying to do something...

I didn't go off on you.

Sorry about your rl I get it.

I was just telling you that you are in my poe. I thought it might make you do some reads instead of just sheeping someone else. Most of the poe's today have been different. We need townies to solve not just sheep imo.

This just a game. I'm loving this theme and set up. Don't let me ruin your game.

You can ignore me and I won't be mad.

Now game the way you want and I'll do the same.

I was never planning on sheeping someone else, I just wanted an update on where things were at generally. Sean just happened to be the only one who replied and then he flipped town so I started with looking into the people he mentioned.

I am used to larger POEs whereas it seems most people here are just posting their current guesses for the remaining 5 scum. What I was looking for was something more like, "of the 14 players in the game, we generally think the remaining baddies are in this group of 8, so focus your solving efforts there". And I was hoping for more responses so I could see where there was overlap.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Just in case you think I am being coy Dubz. You have done nothing this game fmpov the only reason you are town for me is because Neon said some things which implied she liked you which I am going to read over tonight and see if I read wrong. You have done nothing to push the game state, done nothing to find wolves, done nothing to find town. You cant just come up in here demanding answers from me without providing any yourself. Do something or ill switch you for falcon.

I'm not demanding, I'm literally just asking a question so I can try to understand your perspective. I already talked earlier about why I still have falcon as town after reading his ISO.

I don't know why you're responding to me like this, or why Roxy went off on me for a post where I was asking for help in getting caught up on the gamestate, and honestly it doesn't make me feel inclined to keep trying.

It's a fucking game and real life took precedence for me for a couple days. Like the audacity to rake me over the coals for not doing anything in response to me trying to do something...

I didn't go off on you.

Sorry about your rl I get it.

I was just telling you that you are in my poe. I thought it might make you do some reads instead of just sheeping someone else. Most of the poe's today have been different. We need townies to solve not just sheep imo.

This just a game. I'm loving this theme and set up. Don't let me ruin your game.

You can ignore me and I won't be mad.

Now game the way you want and I'll do the same.

I was never planning on sheeping someone else, I just wanted an update on where things were at generally. Sean just happened to be the only one who replied and then he flipped town so I started with looking into the people he mentioned.

I am used to larger POEs whereas it seems most people here are just posting their current guesses for the remaining 5 scum. What I was looking for was something more like, "of the 14 players in the game, we generally think the remaining baddies are in this group of 8, so focus your solving efforts there". And I was hoping for more responses so I could see where there was overlap.

well you have mine now and Roxy's and Macs and Seanzie's so you got some stuff to work with

[Thunal33]

Catching up -

So we only need to watch out for the opposite of Diligence and Kindness at the moment. so its technically 3vX+Y

What do you mean? Does it spell that out somewhere and I missed it?

no my own personal theory that I had yesterday born out by the fact that pyxxy was mafia and not 3p

I would like to hear more about this theory and any other please.

Whats there to say?

Host cant just make it 8v13 we lose instantly, so its gotta be 1+7? and 13 town.

if the host then wants to make the 3p able to join the mafia faction because lets be honest 1v20 is a bit difficult for a wolf he cant just let them switch when they want

So you have to gate it behind an achievement or some such(game theory!) in this situation I believed that Scotty had gated it behind the opposing virtue.

When pyxxy flipped as mafia his virtue was already dead. Kates was not.

So if you follow my logic kate is 3p because Chastity wasnt dead but I forget what pyxxy was but his opposite was dead for a phase and he had joined the mafia faction (Note: this was an optional choice that pyxxy made because as host would you really want to force someone to become a mafia in the event the mafia faction is doomed or got hit day 1?)

If you want to know more ask questions? But I feel like ive explained this three times already

Kate already had the condition that she converts to mafia if 2 people who open her gifts die, and that didn't seem connected to the virtue.

There is nothing to imply it's the only way Kate could have become mafia though.

But it is interesting that the track I saw was her "gifting" Dennis. So Dennis opened the gift and received a BTSC as the reward I guess. That's kind of messed up if you think about the roles.

Lust sends Dennis a gift, he's like sure, "Hi son, unwrap me I'm your present".

"Mother noooooo!"

No wonder Dennis has stopped posting. Poor kid probably has unreconcilable trauma.

Lmao. What kind of game is this?

[Dubz]

BTW in case it wasnt obvious Dubz is town

Sweet my work here is done

[RondoDimBuckle]

BTW in case it wasnt obvious Dubz is town

Sweet my work here is done

Noooooo

If you cant tell we are being fucked sideways atm. We need all hands on deck

[Thunal33]

But at least we know that one of the villian's kp is threatening town to do things that aren't good for town and then killing them if they don't do what they're told.

So uhhh... if you get made demands of in this game, respond accordingly.

I forget who it was and it would be hard to search for, but didn't someone get a note saying to pocket you?

[RondoDimBuckle]

But at least we know that one of the villian's kp is threatening town to do things that aren't good for town and then killing them if they don't do what they're told.

So uhhh... if you get made demands of in this game, respond accordingly.

I forget who it was and it would be hard to search for, but didn't someone get a note saying to pocket you?

That was me saying that

[Dubz]

BTW in case it wasnt obvious Dubz is town

Sweet my work here is done

Noooooo

If you cant tell we are being fucked sideways atm. We need all hands on deck

I'm kidding!!

Okay first rule of playing with Dubz: Don't take the one liners seriously like, 90% of the time.

I'm still working, it's just slow because I'm stuck on mobile. Can't multi-tab as effectively.

[Thunal33]

@DrWilgy where are your reads at right now?

[Thunal33]

But at least we know that one of the villian's kp is threatening town to do things that aren't good for town and then killing them if they don't do what they're told.

So uhhh... if you get made demands of in this game, respond accordingly.

I forget who it was and it would be hard to search for, but didn't someone get a note saying to pocket you?

That was me saying that

Then that's a little odd with the theory is you have to do what it says or you die. Voting for someone is clearly measurable, a post count restriction is clearly measurable, but who determines whether something counts as pocketing?

[RondoDimBuckle]

But at least we know that one of the villian's kp is threatening town to do things that aren't good for town and then killing them if they don't do what they're told.

So uhhh... if you get made demands of in this game, respond accordingly.

I forget who it was and it would be hard to search for, but didn't someone get a note saying to pocket you?

That was me saying that

Then that's a little odd with the theory is you have to do what it says or you die. Voting for someone is clearly measurable, a post count restriction is clearly measurable, but who determines whether something counts as pocketing?

it was just a meme

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

Okay I see. But I don't understand how you feel that way at all. They are disconnected thoughts only in the way I also don't connect my thoughts. But am I a wolf?

I say things and move on without elaborating constantly is that wolfy?

It's not the same thing. With you I feel like there's an interest or sequence to your thought process even if it's sometimes random and disconnected. I don't feel the same way with Wilgy. It's disconnected in that it feels like he doesn't care about knowing the answers to his questions.

I don't think Kate and Dennis being outed means he's clear, but I also think my time rn is best spent looking for difficult wolves. We don't have huge likely t/t wagons pushed by very skilled players if the game is easy, I don't get randomly suspected if the game is easy, and I don't think Kate is the first to get outed if the game is easy.

As far as who could be the difficult baddies, I don't think it's Mac or Tutuu. I have an idea that it might me SVS and I also want to look into Falcon and Jack. As far as SVS, I find it weird that Kate didn't make a read on her at all. SVS being fooled by Kate makes sense, but similarly to how Kate ignored Dennis Kate also ignored SVS but even more and I'd expect Kate to have some read on her. Dennis may have signaled SVS because he thought Seanzie was SVS, but what if Dennis signaled SVS because he thought she was bad for other reasons?

@MacDougall I really believe you can find me as town if you read my ISO.

I meant to address this earlier, but Fathers Day and anything most people said would have become lost in yesterdays lusty thread. I also know it's moot at this point, but i didn't want to leave it to hang.

After Hot Dog Fingers, Kate and I decided never to do that again. That game was really stressful because of that, that we were taking alot of flak for being two old friends who *met* playing Mafia being confident on our reads of each other. If I suspect her, I'll make a case, and if I don't I'll put her in a reads list if I make one. And she agreed.

Had she done so, it would have been a huge red flag to me. I was even kind of thinking that was why she didn't make a reads list, she was trying to avoid it. But obvs it was becasue she was bad lol

I already voted Dennis, we need to resolve him. I have tinfoil that he's actually Doe, hence his Mom devoting so much time to thread spamming, to keep his name out of peoples mouths one more day. And while she seemed to inexplicably (Kate is pretty paranoid, I look forward to reading that chat post game to see just WHY she trusted him at all) trust Sean, I am not sure she would have given up Doe to him or anyone else if Doe was her actual son. Giving him another day to gather a team. It didn't say in Kates role that she needed Doe alive to become bad, but having played a similar role, it's a strong possibility imo that that might be the case.

I checked the First Post, and it was not updated to show any baddies other than Doe, I guess we are not being informed of this, so I'm assuming with Pyxxys flip that we're in a regular Mafia game now and there could be more. I plan to do some rereading today with that in mind.

I still have this lingering paranoia that Kate and Dennis being outed is too easy. Kate trusted Sean so much she apparently sent him a screenshot of her role and hinted about Dennis. Afaik she played with Seanzie and so would know he does gambits like that so why would she immediately be so trusting? And why would Dennis give up at the same time as Kate when he wasn't 100% outed?

There's a good chance it really is that easy and I'm not focusing on this tinfoil, but it is interesting.

The basic ideas are these:

Seanzie threatens to pick Mac. Mac kills him.
Seanzie threatens to pick Mac. Someone else kills him to make Mac look bad.

Elementary stuff, sure.

Here's what has me squinting.

Unlike the clearheaded civilian Seanzie I experienced just yesterday (elsewhere), Seanzie here was unhinged. Bragging, saying wild things, being goofy etc.

Is that how you want your DA to behave? Bad spelling, bad punctuation. Talking about "bevvies" with Mac.

Seanzie acted more like a guy wearing lots of bubble wrap with a bomb strapped to his chest going on about how safe it is. Making a Youtube. Or a TikTok. Or whatever the hell passes for entertainment where someone meets his maker.

Consider that it's day 3 and you are both still in the game as the most clearing thing about me because I actively would seek to remove you both from any game I was wolfing in as priority.

I'm untouchable. Got so many protekz on me. Rondo is... Rondo.

I don't know. Something doesn't add up.

[Epignosis]

Again, forgive me- I'm stuck in ancient history and working my way forward.

[Epignosis]

Was Seanzie's "cop check" actually a desperado? He added Dennis to the list here which could be an RT but it could be him really thinking of targeting Dennis:

Mac or dennis or Thumal

I still can't figure out who his clear is though.

Define: desperado?

[Epignosis]

Also, is it "TH-unal" or "TOO-nal?" Or neither?

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: Vote Dennis] aubergine

Nervous about numbers given everything but hey, 1 yesterday, 1 today, 1 last night. We're doing okay.

I am hoping for a lot more from you after I seen what you can actually do as town, I want it again.

Hot take: Roxy is really Lust.

[Dubz]

Looking at Wilgy and Michelle next, hopefully before bed, but in case I pass out here's where I'm at

Scum:
Dennis

Scum lean:
Nanook

Town lean:
Roxy
Rondo

Town:
falcon
Mac
thunal

[Dubz]

If Sean cleared someone n2 I have a guess for who it is but not sure if it's the right time to talk about that

[Epignosis]

the thing about wagonomics is that

a) wolves have to vote
b) wolves like to vote in ways that feel safe
c) usually they don't like to vote together

because c doesn't apply it actually makes the tutuu wagon (and porscha wagon) more likely to have multiple wolves than usual.

Townies early in the game are genuinely solving and more likely to be voting their scumreads. The wolves are more likely to throw votes behind players who are making themselves the leader of the wagon ie. Kate for Tutuu and me for Porscha.

I'm not saying no town will have sheeped but I am saying that the vc as the Tutuu and Porscha wagons were emerging is very likely to have wolves voting on it. Particularly ones that voted for bad reasons (or no reasons) who if town would be less inclined to make the vote ie. Wilgy voting Tutuu which I find to be very careless for him.

How many "wolves" were there Day 1? Day 2?

This is not your standard mafia experience, I'm afraid.

Day 1 you are dealing with John Doe and that's it. Then Night 1 plays out. Day 2? Now you have a mafia game.