The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

#2201

Metalmarsh89 wrote:So answer me this. Who would you be interested in lynching today aside from yourself?

Linki: touche. I still think timmer is the way to go today. Too many people are calling for their own name, and I don't like it.

To be more accurate, I am not actively campaigning to die. I just am playing more than one mafia game at the moment and my SAS class started today, and I have a ridiculous amount of coding to do today (I shouldn't even be here, honestly), and if I'm going to spend the game on a different page than everyone else, why should I bother?

Can you explain to me why you believe timmer is most worthy of a vote?

I am definitely considering a vote for timmer, because it's odd to me that he claimed Old Rogue, that he's behaved the way he has with the Aces/Roxy situation, etc. That said, he's consistently come across as incredibly genuine to me, so if he is a Serial Killer or Top or something, he almost deserves to win, because I just can't see how that is the case.

As to who I want to vote, I really don't know. The nature of this game in addition to the fact that I only last night became fully invested and in the right gear for this game have led me to come to no particular conclusions as to who is most worthy of my vote today.

Long Con wrote:I think S~V~S and MP07 are definitely New Rogues.

What is the basis of your accusation?

#2202

MP, I still don't get the difference. Calling someone civvie or baddie is just another way to say you trust them or you don't. I'd understand the point in all your discussion if you actually had a plan or something by which you think people should play, but since you keep saying the same things, it's just making me think you're bad...or not to be trusted, if you'd rather I phrase it that way :P

By the way, at the risk of sounding really clueless, what is LMS?

Timmer, there are a few people who think you should be voted, yet you don't think any of them is bad. you're only looking at the low posters who are mostly not here to defend themselves. While I tend to do that myself sometimes when I'm out of options, the fact that you don't find any of those suspicious of you suspicious makes me wonder whether you're just trying to stay on everyone's good side, not to mention you keep apologizing for your game. What exactly is there to apologize for? You're the one who got Double down, so I don't get the apologizing. While my gut is telling me you're genuine and sincere, my brain is telling me you are hiding something. Not sure which one I should trust.

#2203

I switched my vote to Soneji for now, since he's not playing. If I come up with someone more worthy of my vote in the next 5 hours, I'll switch it.

For now, probably against my better judgment, I'm not sure if I want to vote out S~V~S or timmer. It seems odd to me that they're both claiming "civilian" or Old Rogue roles and that now suddenly timmer is sticking up for S~V~S, but timmer is vouching for her really hard. If they are both New Rogues and somehow gained BTSC and that is why timmer is vouching for S~V~S, that's ballsy as hell.

#2204

MovingPictures07 wrote:I am definitely considering a vote for timmer, because it's odd to me that he claimed Old Rogue, that he's behaved the way he has with the Aces/Roxy situation, etc. That said, he's consistently come across as incredibly genuine to me, so if he is a Serial Killer or Top or something, he almost deserves to win...

I feel the same about Timmer seeming genuine, but it's only Day 5, and it's too early to say anyone deserves it yet.

Long Con wrote:I think S~V~S and MP07 are definitely New Rogues.
What is the basis of your accusation?

Wait, you can see my posts?

#2205

FZ. wrote:MP, I still don't get the difference. Calling someone civvie or baddie is just another way to say you trust them or you don't. I'd understand the point in all your discussion if you actually had a plan or something by which you think people should play, but since you keep saying the same things, it's just making me think you're bad...or not to be trusted, if you'd rather I phrase it that way :P

By the way, at the risk of sounding really clueless, what is LMS?

Timmer, there are a few people who think you should be voted, yet you don't think any of them is bad. you're only looking at the low posters who are mostly not here to defend themselves. While I tend to do that myself sometimes when I'm out of options, the fact that you don't find any of those suspicious of you suspicious makes me wonder whether you're just trying to stay on everyone's good side, not to mention you keep apologizing for your game. What exactly is there to apologize for? You're the one who got Double down, so I don't get the apologizing. While my gut is telling me you're genuine and sincere, my brain is telling me you are hiding something. Not sure which one I should trust.

How is that the same? OK, assuming it even is the same, which I would contend it's not, it doesn't compute to me to use traditional baddie hunting to vote out players in this game.

What does make more sense? Fine, I'll admit I haven't been great with answers. That's because the game isn't quite LMS (Last Man Standing) or traditional, but it's somewhere in between.

Other options?
1) Low or no posters - They present no help whatsoever. We are statistically more likely to lynch a New Rogue at this point than an Old Rogue, and since traditional ways of sussing players out are likely ineffective, then why not vote them out anyway?
2) SK hunting - There clearly is a Serial Killer, so hunting for a Serial Killer as opposed to a mafia team could help attack players who are not only possible SK candidates but trying to hide something.

I just literally came up with those right now. There are other options I'm sure.

I just don't understand why we're saying "I'm civ!" "he's civ" etc. Civilians don't even have a majority. You can't discern whether you trust someone based on how you would in a normal game.

#2206

Long Con wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I am definitely considering a vote for timmer, because it's odd to me that he claimed Old Rogue, that he's behaved the way he has with the Aces/Roxy situation, etc. That said, he's consistently come across as incredibly genuine to me, so if he is a Serial Killer or Top or something, he almost deserves to win...
I feel the same about Timmer seeming genuine, but it's only Day 5, and it's too early to say anyone deserves it yet.

Long Con wrote:I think S~V~S and MP07 are definitely New Rogues.
What is the basis of your accusation?
Wait, you can see my posts?

To the first quote, I wasn't intending to say we should leave him alone because he deserves to win. I was merely exaggerating for effect, to display just how shocked I would be if timmer was a SK lying his way through everything, because he's come across more genuine to me than practically everyone else.

To the second quote, I don't understand.

#2207

I have been reading your posts, LC, and clearly acknowledged them when I addressed that I haven't been mind controlled. I don't know why you think that and I don't know why you think Old Rogues and Independent Rogues are "essentially the same". They are not.

#2208

MovingPictures07 wrote:I have been reading your posts, LC, and clearly acknowledged them when I addressed that I haven't been mind controlled. I don't know why you think that and I don't know why you think Old Rogues and Independent Rogues are "essentially the same". They are not.

Actually, you DO know why I think Old Rogues and Indy Rogues are essentially the same, because you read my post.

#2209

Long Con wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I have been reading your posts, LC, and clearly acknowledged them when I addressed that I haven't been mind controlled. I don't know why you think that and I don't know why you think Old Rogues and Independent Rogues are "essentially the same". They are not.
Actually, you DO know why I think Old Rogues and Indy Rogues are essentially the same, because you read my post.

It doesn't compute though.

You're assuming Independent Rogues not only have the incentive to accomplish the same win condition as the Old Rogues but that they have the means to do so.

Facts:
1) Independent Rogues do not know who Old Rogues and New Rogues are.
2) New Rogues outnumber Old Rogues by 1 and Independent Rogues = Old Rogues in number.

If your win condition was survive until the end, what incentives or means do you have to help the Old Rogues win the game? None.

#2210

In a traditional game, neutral independents can help "baddie hunt" alongside the civilians because the civilians have the majority and the means to determine who is an NKing mafia member. They have the incentive to do so, as well, since the civilians have MAJORITY.

#2211

In the end, an Independent Rogue wants to end the game as quickly as possible, yes, but they don't really know how to achieve that and don't really care when the game ends, as long as they survive.

#2212

Long Con wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I am definitely considering a vote for timmer, because it's odd to me that he claimed Old Rogue, that he's behaved the way he has with the Aces/Roxy situation, etc. That said, he's consistently come across as incredibly genuine to me, so if he is a Serial Killer or Top or something, he almost deserves to win...
I feel the same about Timmer seeming genuine, but it's only Day 5, and it's too early to say anyone deserves it yet.

Long Con wrote:I think S~V~S and MP07 are definitely New Rogues.
What is the basis of your accusation?
Wait, you can see my posts?

Yes and they are wrong

#2213

I moved back to Timmer for now, but will consider other LC.

#2214

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Long Con wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I have been reading your posts, LC, and clearly acknowledged them when I addressed that I haven't been mind controlled. I don't know why you think that and I don't know why you think Old Rogues and Independent Rogues are "essentially the same". They are not.
Actually, you DO know why I think Old Rogues and Indy Rogues are essentially the same, because you read my post.
It doesn't compute though.

You're assuming Independent Rogues not only have the incentive to accomplish the same win condition as the Old Rogues but that they have the means to do so.

Facts:
1) Independent Rogues do not know who Old Rogues and New Rogues are.
2) New Rogues outnumber Old Rogues by 1 and Independent Rogues = Old Rogues in number.

If your win condition was survive until the end, what incentives or means do you have to help the Old Rogues win the game? None.

You're neglecting the fact that the Indy Rogues want to end the game. As quickly as possible. They have two basic routes to choose: Eliminate the New Rogues and Grodd, or eliminate all the factions that oppose the New Rogues, whoever they might be.

PLUS, the Indy Rogues know who Llama is, which gives them an anchor of sorts in following the Old Rogue/Detective Win Condition.

Your view on the way this game works is illogical, and I don't see how it helps anyone achieve their win condition. I don't even understand how you are picturing playing this out going forward, if we decide to forget the concept of Civvie and baddie.

The MAJORITY is not the incentive that Indy players have to side with the Civs. The incentive is to be able to publicly work with a good group to eliminate an evil group. The alternative is to act baddie, and that only increases the chance that you'll be lynched as the game moves along. It applies to this game the same as most others.

#2215

S~V~S wrote:I moved back to Timmer for now, but will consider other LC.

There's only one LC. I just wasn't sure if you and MP could see my posts. I assume you both know that calling you both "definitely New Rogues" was merely a test of that.

#2216

Long Con wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Long Con wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I have been reading your posts, LC, and clearly acknowledged them when I addressed that I haven't been mind controlled. I don't know why you think that and I don't know why you think Old Rogues and Independent Rogues are "essentially the same". They are not.
Actually, you DO know why I think Old Rogues and Indy Rogues are essentially the same, because you read my post.
It doesn't compute though.

You're assuming Independent Rogues not only have the incentive to accomplish the same win condition as the Old Rogues but that they have the means to do so.

Facts:
1) Independent Rogues do not know who Old Rogues and New Rogues are.
2) New Rogues outnumber Old Rogues by 1 and Independent Rogues = Old Rogues in number.

If your win condition was survive until the end, what incentives or means do you have to help the Old Rogues win the game? None.
You're neglecting the fact that the Indy Rogues want to end the game. As quickly as possible. They have two basic routes to choose: Eliminate the New Rogues and Grodd, or eliminate all the factions that oppose the New Rogues, whoever they might be.

PLUS, the Indy Rogues know who Llama is, which gives them an anchor of sorts in following the Old Rogue/Detective Win Condition.

Your view on the way this game works is illogical, and I don't see how it helps anyone achieve their win condition. I don't even understand how you are picturing playing this out going forward, if we decide to forget the concept of Civvie and baddie.

The MAJORITY is not the incentive that Indy players have to side with the Civs. The incentive is to be able to publicly work with a good group to eliminate an evil group. The alternative is to act baddie, and that only increases the chance that you'll be lynched as the game moves along. It applies to this game the same as most others.

No, they don't, they just want to survive until endgame. You're assuming that an Independent Rogue thinks ending the game = surviving until endgame, but that doesn't help if the game can't possibly end until at least N9 and the Independent Rogue gets NKed now, does it?

But the Old Rogue win condition doesn't even align with the Detectives! Who's to keep Llama or someone else from jailing Old Rogues? Doesn't matter to them. Less preference than New Rogues? Sure. But does it matter? No.

Are you kidding?

Of course, it's the majority that incentivices a neutral independent to side with the civilians. If you craft a game with 31 players, 15 civilians and 15 mafia and 1 neutral independent, and the mafia have not BTSC but each faction has a kill (I know this is an unrealistic example, but roll with me), how do you think the independent would play? Entirely with the civilians because he's playing "with a good group"? Come on.

NO ONE "acts baddie", that's absurd.

With all due respect, LC, this is precisely why I asked to be lynched yesterday and I believe the way you and many others view this game is highly illogical.

#2217

I am just becoming increasingly convinced that people at The Syndicate don't truly understand how neutral independents work. I saw it in full form in Death Note and I'm seeing it again here.

#2218

This is a colossal waste of my time when I have plenty of coding to finish.

LC, I am not trying to make you mad or insult you or anyone else. You're one of the greatest mafia players I've ever seen. But clearly we aren't approaching this game with the same mindset and I don't think we ever will. All that this discussion has told me is that you're very likely NOT an Independent Rogue or that if you are that you're lying to keep up a "friendly" front.

To clarify, I'm not arguing to say "let's all play like baddies lol", I'm saying it makes no sense to analyze and categorize behavior as "civ" and "bad" using traditional baddie hunting because that's not going to get the Old Rogues a win in this game. It's practically impossible from even a random statistical standpoint.

I'm leaving now and doubt I'll be back in time. I'm leaving my vote on Soneji. You guys lynch whomever you want. If you decide it's me, great, then I don't have to waste my time posting thoughts that most people don't agree with anyway. But I'm not actively campaigning to die because I really wanted to play this game from the beginning and only didn't from the get go because I was too busy.

#2219

timmer wrote:
Black Rock wrote:
You are looking at the frame up from a different angle than I am. If it is truly a frame up they didn't want you saved, they wanted me to turn on you. If you are not the Top guy then you should be looking at someone who wants you lynched.
If clearly people are allowed to discuss being mind controlled after the fact, as, if they weren't I'm sure MR would have stepped in by now, then wifom creeps into it. If you are specifically told not to suspect me, then the top knows you will mention it the next day. From that angle, how on Earth would it make sense for ME to do that to you? It guarantees that the next day will have MORE to do with me, not less.

What the host told me is others already mentioned it without asking so I can go ahead and say what I like. I don't think he's all that impressed but he wasn't going to stop me at that point.

#2220

My arguments are sound, I'm fully aware of how neutral independents work. Your viewpoint only leads to confusion about who to lynch and why.

#2221

To answer a few posts all at once...

@MP, my thoughts on SVS have fluctuated considerably all game, but I believe she is a playing what I would term a "pro-civ" game. I'm not convinced that she's an Old Rogue, let's say, but I believe she and I are fighting a common cause. It's not based on info or map btsc or anything like that, it's a hunch plain and simple, a hunch tied to the continuing ambiguity of the Roxy question mark.

@FZ, yes I've got a list of people I don't think are lynch-worthy and I've been promoting that because I think we've got a considerable number of players who are safe choices today, and by safe I mean neutral-to-great lynch results, and there are some people I just do not think fit the bill.

I think, if LC thinks MP is a New Rogue, I can vote for MP. He's tilting anyway, and causing the day to be about him. I can't see any way that he is an Old Rogue or a Detective, so it's safe and he's frankly calling for it. Rabbit has also asked to be lynched, but I get more of an indy vibe from him. I could vote him, but MP seems to be making Rabbit and people like that secondary.

i don't feel great about Sophie but llama's vouch is enough that I won't pursue that idea, I don't have a case to make anyway, just that she's been coast-y.

The only other question mark I have is MM. MM could be just about any role, I've got no clue how to read those posts.

#2222

in fact, at least for now, I'll vote MP.

#2223

Holy that is a heavily split lynch poll and there are only a handful of hours left. For the record, I very well may shift my vote near the end if I feel that the person with the most votes isn't a great choice.

#2224

MovingPictures07 wrote: But the Old Rogue win condition doesn't even align with the Detectives! Who's to keep Llama or someone else from jailing Old Rogues? Doesn't matter to them. Less preference than New Rogues? Sure. But does it matter? No.

Trying to gin up opposition to a confirmed friendly Flash? I resent that, my fine fellow. I have been working to kill the New Rogues from the start, which is the same condition the Old Rogues have. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Don't try to paint me as indifferent to Old Rogue suffering, because I am not.

This post is very suspicious to me. Trying to foment discord.

#2225

MP, I don't see why you're getting annoyed. You could have looked at the thread before deciding to replace whoever it was you replaced (I forgot), and save yourself the time and not played with all the illogical people here. Even if I can see where you're coming from in terms of the old rogues having less chance of winning, you also contradicted yourself, so I have no clue what the heck you're doing. You said we should vote for the least trust worthy person, and then voted for the absent person. If you want to play LMS (and thank you for explaining), why not eliminate the people who are actually in the game and are more likely to disturb you/kill you?

linki: Thanks for answering Timmer. Like I said, my gut is telling me you're okay. I just need to clear the doubts.
As for MP, I don't mind lynching him. I don't like the way he's acting. I think that he's possibly trying to make us think he's an independent rough, because I said that one of the new people made a kill, and if that's the case, we have less chance to lynch him if we think he's an Independent rather than an old rouge

#2226

And I have no idea who MM is either.

Who's up for an MP lynch?

#2227

FZ. wrote: Who's up for an MP lynch?

I am.

1. He's giving the impression there are no baddies, when the New Rogues clearly are. That is suspicious.
2. He's yelling at everyone for not seeing the game his way, which is unproductive.
3. He's contradicting himself like crazy.
4. He kind of seems to want out anyway.
5. He's trying to subtly paint the Detectives as untrustworthy, which we are clearly not.
6. MP is always bad in every game.

All this adds up to a good lynch.

#2228

Whatever. I don't care anymore. Waste your time.

#2229

votes MP

#2230

Let the cycle of people getting lynched because no one else understands their point of view continue.

#2231

MovingPictures07 wrote:I am just becoming increasingly convinced that people at The Syndicate don't truly understand how neutral independents work. I saw it in full form in Death Note and I'm seeing it again here.

Unfortunately, I was unable to participate in Death Note which makes me sad because it's by far my favorite anime series.
But rest assured, MP, you're not alone in this thinking. When I first joined up in this game, I too mentioned how blurred the lines between "civ" and "baddie" seemed. With the obvious exception being New Rogues who want everyone dead except for Indy Rogues. The rest of the win conditions are more pin-pointed to one+ factions.
So that being said, I will not be voting for you as I don't think you're bad, yet. I just think you are very misunderstood, and I'm tempted to look at those being really hard on you for this...

LC and MM

#2232

Wow, that was a quick jump on MP train.

#2233

I know I've asked to be lynched and that I'm tilting, but I can't believe that anyone actually thinks I'm a New Rogue with all of this.

#2234

I want it to be known. Why is everyone voting for me? At least timmer added the clause that it seems unlikely I'm a Detective or Old Rogue. That's fair enough. But I don't trust FZ. as far as I can throw her.

#2235

Wow. Pile up on MP. I'm keeping my vote where it is until the chance for a rescue opens up. You guys are ridiculous

I'll save you if I can buddy. But I'll need more people to pile votes elsewhere. Otherwise you're screwed.

#2236

I need to obviously go away. Sorry for spewing everywhere.

Thanks for the support, Devin, but it's clear that no one shares my viewpoint regarding this game being unconventional. I knew it was a gamble. I should have just stayed not giving a shit, it would have ensured my survival better.

Anyway, I'm pretty mixed on whether I get lynched at this point, I honestly just want to be put out of my misery, but I really wanted to play this game.

#2237

MovingPictures07 wrote:I know I've asked to be lynched and that I'm tilting, but I can't believe that anyone actually thinks I'm a New Rogue with all of this.

I'm not reading you as a New Rogue. It looks like they want to keep the focus on you. Besides the fact that I know Llama to be a detective, I do not trust the rest of those votes.

#2238

Either way, thanks for hosting, MR. I am glad I got to play after all, if I do die now. I really need to listen to my self-discipline portion of my brain instead of the masochistic portion, so I'll just check in later after I KNOW the result is over to see if I've died.

I'm voting FZ. I trust her the least right now by far.

I also don't trust LC.

#2239

Ok, I voted for Timmer for now. I got to get some things done and I will try to be back before the end of the lynch. I'm hoping to understand some of these MP votes then.

#2240

MovingPictures07 wrote:I need to obviously go away. Sorry for spewing everywhere.

Thanks for the support, Devin, but it's clear that no one shares my viewpoint regarding this game being unconventional. I knew it was a gamble. I should have just stayed not giving a shit, it would have ensured my survival better.

Anyway, I'm pretty mixed on whether I get lynched at this point, I honestly just want to be put out of my misery, but I really wanted to play this game.

Don't say no one. Because I totally do. As I've stated before the only conventional team is the obviously bad New Rogues. But that's about where that convention ends.
I'm sorry I wasn't able to speak up sooner. Super busy day here at work.

#2241

Moving my vote to Timmer because I don't want MP to go out this way AGAIN.

#2242

So if you guys are not thinking of this as a LMS game, your votes for me must mean you think I'm a New Rogue? You think I torpedoed my own teammate in Bass 1.0?

Nice trick, MP. Make the whole day about you, then pull the pity card and look at the lynch result. Bravo.

#2243

I've got to head out, now. I can only hope that people voting for me actually think I'm their enemy. Because getting lynched simply because MP came in, monopolized the entire thread with arguments and then pulled the pity card will be a rough way to go out.

#2244

Don't worry about it, Devin. I sunk the time into this game and expressed thoughts that I knew challenged the convention of this game. I don't want you defending me because I'm poison at this point. I only want people defending me if they honestly believe a lynch of me makes no sense, but even then it's obvious that I'm poison.

People contest that this game has LMS elements, but just LOOK at how every lynch has gone down, including this one. Is this the mindset of a civilian majority game? No.

I am super swamped RL right now, so not having this game on my mafia stress plate would be a relief to me, after I get over the initial sadness of having died. Hence my wishywashiness on whether I actually want to die. Consequently, I pulled a gambit. You know how much easier it is to pull gambits when they are based in feelings and thoughts that you have genuinely felt? Much more easily.

I'm not changing my vote to timmer because I stand by my assessment that FZ. is least trustworthy based on how Day 5 has progressed. I also do not think timmer deserves to die just because he is the alternative to voting me. I think people jumping onto him for that reason are equally suspect in their motives. timmer should be evaluated on his actions and his actions ALONE.

I honestly don't really care who wins this game, but I hope that this lynch period has been illuminating to all of you, because that's what I truly intended with all of this.

I just ask that you please note the following after my death:

1) I never called Llama suspicious. I am stating TRUTHS. Doesn't matter what Llama says about hunting New Rogues exclusively, even if he has that intention. Detectives can jail Old Rogues too. It clearly says it. Don't ever just trust someone, even if their role is confirmed, if their win condition leaves any opportunity open for betrayal. I've been burned by it way too many times.

2) MR specifically designed this game to NOT be a civ v. baddie affair, considering he even says "the closest to civilian" as the game is going to get with the Old Rogues. Whether or not you wanted to play this type of game or whether you think his game is balanced is irrelevant. There is no such thing as civilians and baddies this game. Yes, the New Rogues are basically a mafia team since they're hostile to everyone else except the Independent Rogues, but that doesn't mean that hunting for people based on traditional tells will actually help net them, especially since they outnumber EVERY OTHER FACTION. Stop deluding yourselves.

3) Independent Rogues only want to survive. And there are 6 of them.

4) FZ. said that she thought I looked "bad" based on my insistence and that I didn't offer up alternatives, yet I clearly came up with two off the top of my head, and she failed to address them completely. I even stated multiple times that I'm not insulting any of you, but she OMGUS'd me saying that if I didn't want to play with a bunch of illogical people that I should never have replaced in.

5) Both S~V~S and timmer have claimed "civilian" roles. Remember that. Although they seem alright by me, I caution that you be wary of anyone who tries to claim such a thing. Also be wary of players trying too hard to act as though they are neutral yet their intentions indicate a contradiction. Hopefully that will help you determine those people who are lying.

I'm not bitter if I die. C'est la vie. I honestly asked for it.

I only hope that whatever faction can best take advantage of the information gained from these lynches be crowned the winner.

#2245

MovingPictures07 wrote:I want it to be known. Why is everyone voting for me? At least timmer added the clause that it seems unlikely I'm a Detective or Old Rogue. That's fair enough. But I don't trust FZ. as far as I can throw her.

I demonstrated yesterday that your original post about this, and all your subsequent posts thereafter, did not come from an Old Rogue or even Old Rogue-aligned perspective. You wanted to challenge the idea that there were civvies and baddies, which, fine, but you said the New Rogues could just as easily be considered "civvies", and that the Independent Rogues could work with the New Rogues now that the Old Rogues seem to be dwindling in number. If you were more inclined to work with the Old Rogues and Detectives, there would have been no reason for you to have rocked the boat like this, because the game was already moving in that direction.

All of this tells me that you have New Rogue-aligned ideals, or at best, that you have no problem siding with the New Rogues at this point. And to me, that means you cannot be trusted.

And what's this about FZ? I don't think you've even mentioned her before this post.

linki: Reading

#2246

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also be wary of players trying too hard to act as though they are neutral yet their intentions indicate a contradiction. Hopefully that will help you determine those people who are lying.

LOL, but MP... that's you!

#2247

Turnip Head wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I want it to be known. Why is everyone voting for me? At least timmer added the clause that it seems unlikely I'm a Detective or Old Rogue. That's fair enough. But I don't trust FZ. as far as I can throw her.
I demonstrated yesterday that your original post about this, and all your subsequent posts thereafter, did not come from an Old Rogue or even Old Rogue-aligned perspective. You wanted to challenge the idea that there were civvies and baddies, which, fine, but you said the New Rogues could just as easily be considered "civvies", and that the Independent Rogues could work with the New Rogues now that the Old Rogues seem to be dwindling in number. If you were more inclined to work with the Old Rogues and Detectives, there would have been no reason for you to have rocked the boat like this, because the game was already moving in that direction.

All of this tells me that you have New Rogue-aligned ideals, or at best, that you have no problem siding with the New Rogues at this point. And to me, that means you cannot be trusted.

And what's this about FZ? I don't think you've even mentioned her before this post.

linki: Reading

Don't trust TH either.

The only reason "siding" with the Old Rogues makes sense is all about politics. "Oh, I seem so civvie, even though there are less civvies than there are every other faction, and MR even said there are no civvies, but whatever! I'm a civvie, don't hurt me!"

#2248

Turnip Head wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Also be wary of players trying too hard to act as though they are neutral yet their intentions indicate a contradiction. Hopefully that will help you determine those people who are lying.
LOL, but MP... that's you!

You know what? You're right.

Votes MP

#2249

At least I can die happy knowing I shook this game up like it was meant to be shaken.

Civilians do not have a majority. Stop lying to yourselves.

#2250

And TH, my intentions have never indicated that I am anything other than neutral. To say that is otherwise is a misrepresentation of my actions, especially in the same post where you said that every player should publicly side with the Old Rogues (or lie about it) over any other faction.

Can Someone Finally Die?