MINECRAFT - DAY SIX

[Tangrowth]

BIH Zombie and bye Epig.
Feels good to be right and I am so glad I followed HeMan's original suspicion and stuck with it - with the help of several others.

Why ask someone else Sock? What do YOU think of me?

I, too, think Stevie should use his powers however they wish to.

I tend to think you're civvie here, but I wouldn't bet my life on it, and I really don't know. That said, I wouldn't bet my life on nearly anyone else being civvie but me, obviously. I ask players about other players all the time, it doesn't necessarily mean you're particularly suspicious.

What are you thinking now that Epi is gone?

[thellama73]

Haha! Excellent result. I knew civvie Rob would have been more friendly to me. I really think Elohcin is the way to go tomorrow.

It is quite interesting how different MP and SVS's perception of me is. Personally, I think my behavior is consistent with my other games, but of course you would expect me to say that.

[Roxy]

llama - what do you make of Snow Dog following your vote today? Do you still feel he is civ?

Sockgnome- Idk - since Epig did flip bad ofc we will all lynch Eloh tomorrow so no info from votes can be gleaned. I do still feel like Snow Dog was trying to paint House as not a good option and setting me up for a possible lynch candidate for D 1. He still does not agree House was the most likely civ choice.
As for others - well I thought Rusty's posts had a different tone than that of MacG. I have him in my question area but have not read back on him.

I do find it odd that SVS said you were leery with your discussion inre to Stevie's power. My eye is still firmly watching her, her responses last night made me feel better but then she makes a comment like that and wonder, huh?

[thellama73]

llama - what do you make of Snow Dog following your vote today? Do you still feel he is civ?

Well, Snow Dog did vote for DP before I did today, so I don't know if he really followed my vote. I think it is entirely possible that he is bad, but I don't think the vote alone indicates that. When he voted, Epignosis was already doomed. Wouldn't it make more sense for a baddie to try to blend in with the crowd at that point?

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

Great result!!!! Bye epi and BIH zombie!!! I think going after Elohcin would be a good idea, though I'm still leery of snow dog. His "no u" kind of playing here makes me lean a bit towards him being baddie, but i dont know for sure yet.

[Roxy]

Not necessarily llama. Some baddies as you know and have witnessed play wild bold games - yah kind of have to - maybe he felt since he had voiced so much doubt about Epig he could'nt vote for him. Idk.

Then I guess I will ask how Snow Dog feels that llama followed his vote? And why did he suddenly start to suspect him after all the convo had not even centered around him?

You two will be my death trying to learn how to read lol

[Roxy]

Also llama he did kind of follow your vote in that he latched onto your and Epig's reasoning.

[thellama73]

I think Snow dog certainly but I want to lynch Elohcin first, and then maybe SVS, although I am still not sure about her. We will have to see how Snow Dog develops until then.

[Spacedaisy]

Hello, just checking in.

The recent developments have made me really comfortable with my vote for Epig, so I'm hoping for the best there.

I know MP & Ambray were asking for my opinion of Boogs. FWIW I was with him in his apartment yesterday from 4 until 11ish, and any time we were catching up in the thread/posting, he wasn't deliberating in baddie chatrooms. For whatever that's worth. So any theories, etc etc is all him during that time period, he had no coaching or whatnot.

I always have this image of couples that play mafia...

Awkward dinner table conversations, "Oh, what were you doing on the computer just now?" "Nothing."

You have no idea how true this really is. And Alex makes it ten freaking times worse, because he literally CANNOT STAND not talking to me about something. Playing games with him is so difficult, I have to remind him constantly not to talk about the game! That said, being a Baddie with him in AHS over on Hedville was the most fun I have had in a game ever.

[indiglo]

Hello, just checking in.

The recent developments have made me really comfortable with my vote for Epig, so I'm hoping for the best there.

I know MP & Ambray were asking for my opinion of Boogs. FWIW I was with him in his apartment yesterday from 4 until 11ish, and any time we were catching up in the thread/posting, he wasn't deliberating in baddie chatrooms. For whatever that's worth. So any theories, etc etc is all him during that time period, he had no coaching or whatnot.

I always have this image of couples that play mafia...

Awkward dinner table conversations, "Oh, what were you doing on the computer just now?" "Nothing."

You have no idea how true this really is. And Alex makes it ten freaking times worse, because he literally CANNOT STAND not talking to me about something. Playing games with him is so difficult, I have to remind him constantly not to talk about the game! That said, being a Baddie with him in AHS over on Hedville was the most fun I have had in a game ever.

Indeed, SD. Hencewhy Dex and I decided not to ever play together again. Too hard, and too un-fun. I seriously don't know how other couples do it without going insane. Because we talk about EVERYTHING and it was too much torture to have this 1 topic be off-limits between us.

[reywaS]

I am not near 100% on Snow Dog either. In fact, a part of me thinks we could have two civvies in Snow Dog and llama. But... looking at the player list, I don't know if there would be two others that would make more sense; I would logically have to think at least one of those is bad. But I don't know. I suppose looking at the very beginning when Epig was just being eyed by He-Man might help. I'm curious to see if reywaS is still reading his llama and Epig theory.

I am still very much suspicious of llama. The quick reversal on Epignosis from thinking he's likely being framed to he's likely bad is the thing that's pinged me the most.

[Russtifinko]

YAY~!!! Never so glad to have been mistaken

Well, what do you think, Elohcin next? And do you still feel like llama is bad as strongly as you did before, or does this change your opinion at all?

I don't know what to think of Elo~ she certainbly sounded bad in that last post.

And my reasons for suspecting Llama are still there, although this death makes it less likely, tbh. But still very possible~ although it is likely that Indi was a civ, and NOT Spider, which I find relieving since she did not really come across as baddie to me

But it was Llamas behavior that caught my eye, and he has not done much since to make me feel differently, although this result says to me that i could just really suck at reading Llama, time will tell.

SVS, could you explain what makes you think indi was a civ now?

Also, I'm gonna take credit for my claim that Epi was zombie. Excellent result! Big ups to MP for leading that, and following through when Epi caused some of us (me included, for a minute there) to doubt. I agree Eloh is a clear next step, and that an NK would probably save time. Not sure what SVS thinks would be gleaned from lynching her? I'd expect the votes to exactly mirror today's

[Snow Dog]

I'd like to comment on some points raised.

I didn't push ship....ever! I was simply trying to help.
If I was a baddie I would have voted Epi, why risk any other choice?

[Zany Dex]

I'd like to comment on some points raised.

I didn't push ship....ever! I was simply trying to help.
If I was a baddie I would have voted Epi, why risk any other choice?

Firstly BIh zombies well played epig!

Secondly, WIFOM TO THE MAX.

[Snow Dog]

I'd like to comment on some points raised.

I didn't push ship....ever! I was simply trying to help.
If I was a baddie I would have voted Epi, why risk any other choice?

Firstly BIh zombies well played epig!

Secondly, WIFOM TO THE MAX.

Not really

[Zany Dex]

I'd like to comment on some points raised.

I didn't push ship....ever! I was simply trying to help.
If I was a baddie I would have voted Epi, why risk any other choice?

Firstly BIh zombies well played epig!

Secondly, WIFOM TO THE MAX.

Not really

I disagree, however, I'm not sold on you being bad. Have you said how you feel about llama snowy?

Also, I'm not sold on elohcin being baddie I would be more happy to look more closely at llama.

[Snow Dog]

Not necessarily llama. Some baddies as you know and have witnessed play wild bold games - yah kind of have to - maybe he felt since he had voiced so much doubt about Epig he could'nt vote for him. Idk.

Then I guess I will ask how Snow Dog feels that llama followed his vote? And why did he suddenly start to suspect him after all the convo had not even centered around him?

You two will be my death trying to learn how to read lol

Well that's good, kind of.
If I am baddie I'm being kinda bold and reckless don't you think? Is that misunderstanding we had over the house vote colouring your view of me? OK, I didn't follow the mass vote against Epi and whatever i say (due to WIFOM) will not be believed it seems.

I am trying to think of any other ways for everyone to believe me. I guess you either trust me or don't.
But let's say I am civ and you are bad. That early argument would have suited you well. You a well known player is having an argument with this new upstart, surely someone will come to your defence? And lo, one person does. Just one out of the whole lot of us...reywaS. I don't know if he was just being gallant or he himself felt an opportinity to paint me bad.

That is from my viewpoint. Which is why I suspected him.....and you.

BUT..if we are all civ the baddies relish this sort of bickering don't they? So I am glad the bickering is over and we can now have a reasoned discussion.

[Snow Dog]

I'd like to comment on some points raised.

I didn't push ship....ever! I was simply trying to help.
If I was a baddie I would have voted Epi, why risk any other choice?

Firstly BIh zombies well played epig!

Secondly, WIFOM TO THE MAX.

Not really

I disagree, however, I'm not sold on you being bad. Have you said how you feel about llama snowy?

Also, I'm not sold on elohcin being baddie I would be more happy to look more closely at llama.

I feel Llama is civ. But when have I been right? I was even sold on Epi's tale. Well not sold, but it cast doubt.
And now he has been revealed my suspicions of you must be dropped. Another one I got wrong. I am also not sold on elohcin being bad. I still have a suspicion of DP, hence my vote.

[Zany Dex]

Don't be to hard on yourself snow dog, we are all wrong in mafia sometimes. It's good your views are not always the same as others otherwise we would never double check ourselves.

You say your suspicion of me 'must be dropped' does that mean you see me as bad still?

[Snow Dog]

Don't be to hard on yourself snow dog, we are all wrong in mafia sometimes. It's good your views are not always the same as others otherwise we would never double check ourselves.

You say your suspicion of me 'must be dropped' does that mean you see me as bad still?

No I don't. All evidence points against it. I was wrong about you. I admit it.

[Elohcin]

Actually, I did not see that you said it, I thought MP said it, I have not totally caught up. Got home, read Llamas posts, skimmed MPs, was gonna read the rest with dinner and a nice drink

And I know I have said that too, but I am really trying to get away from that kind of term, it sounds baddie, when a lot of the time it isn't. Sometimes it is just stubborness, though. I can be stubborn, as, I am sure, many of us can be~

I did say you were exercising tunnel vision because you were refusing to see anything about Epig for quite a long time there and frothed over llama. Yes, I know it's only Day 2, but I didn't mean it as a necessarily baddie term and certainly not as an insulting one.

Alright. Whew, that was a lot to catch up on. Let me just say that you are completely 100% wrong about me Alex. You are right that I was/am hesitant during MOTU. It is my first Mafia game. I was getting my feet wet, learning the ropes. I said I wouldn't post unless I was most certain of what I had to say. But, this is my second game, I have now watched many of you play the game with accusations and speculations right at the very beginning. So, I thought I would give it a try. I thought it would be fun to dive right in and be a more active player. All that did was get you to think I am a baddie. Also, I am not Epig's teammate. Just b/c I thought that he wasn't being a hypocrite doesn't mean I am either. So, to try to prove we are not teammates, I will vote Epig. Although, you will probably respond to my vote that I had no problem voting Epig b/c he already has so many votes and is sure to be lynched anyway. No matter what, I doubt you'll change your mind about me until you eventually find out my role. And, once you do....you will be eating all those socks. And after that, you will be apologizing as well. Just wait and see

If I'm wrong, then who do you think is baddie? Why are you voting Epig? You don't even say more than just "to try to prove we are not teammates, I will vote Epig." Which reads to me as "I am Epig's teammate and I'm going to try to prove to you that I'm not."

Why did you vote for DP? If you seriously thought what people were saying about Snow Dog early in the game made him most suspicious, why did you drop it absolutely and completely, only to then turn to He-Man looking suspicious, and then not mentioning any of those things again and voting a low poster? How was DP most worthy of your vote and seemingly most baddie?

And I really don't think I'll be eating socks.

I vote Epig to show that I am not on his team and that I am not a baddie. Plain and simple. Why would I vote for a teammate? I would not vote for him to say, "I am Epig's teammate and I'm going to try to prove to you that I'm not", b/c I am a horrible liar.

My reasons for voting DP were clear. I stated SD sounded like a good lynch withing the first few posts of the game. He was the only one being pingy right from the start. However, he became less pingy. I also said low posters was a good way to go. In the end, I chose the lowest poster. I think that choice is better than trying to speculate who is baddie so early in the game.

And, yes, you'll be eating socks I'm telling you, I am a horrible liar. And, I am not baddie. I am definitely civvie and a friend of yours

[Zany Dex]

Don't be to hard on yourself snow dog, we are all wrong in mafia sometimes. It's good your views are not always the same as others otherwise we would never double check ourselves.

You say your suspicion of me 'must be dropped' does that mean you see me as bad still?

No I don't. All evidence points against it. I was wrong about you. I admit it.

You sound disappointed..

[S~V~S]

Alex, I know you did not specifically MEAN it in an insulting way, but that is the way the word is TAKEN by people reading it; it is why i have been trying to eliminate Mafia Jargon from my game talk (although WIFOM is especially hard to eliminate, lol). And this is pretty much how I tend to play a civvie role~ if I think someone is bad I say. If we lynch that person, I move on. If we don't, I keep saying it until I change my mind or they die, lol. I keep saying it alot. The fact that they tried to kill me night one could go either way; they did it to shut me up about Llama, or they did it to frame Llama. Either is very possible, and I am aware of that. I will likely vote Elo today, unless something changes.

Epig being bad removed some of the back up that my gut had, that the baddies piled on Epig to save Llama, that obviously did not happen. The theory someone (Boogs, maybe?) had they they both could have been being saved is a possibility. Knowing Elos affiliation will help me make my mind up on Llama. If she is bad, I find it even less likely that he is. If she isn't, then I reread Llama. And if she isn't I think everyone will have to reevaluate who is doing the string pulling here.

So I would not call that tunnelvision. it could be civ/civ, I have been known to do that *Hugs to DharmaHelper*

Linki @ He Man, lol~ I know I tend to get disappointed when the person I was so sure i caught turns up civ

[thellama73]

I vote Epig to show that I am not on his team and that I am not a baddie. Plain and simple. Why would I vote for a teammate? I would not vote for him to say, "I am Epig's teammate and I'm going to try to prove to you that I'm not", b/c I am a horrible liar.

And, yes, you'll be eating socks I'm telling you, I am a horrible liar. And, I am not baddie. I am definitely civvie and a friend of yours

I just don't believe you. Ever since the lynch switch it was clear that Epi was going down. His teammate(s) would have had little choice but to vote for him or draw suspicion onto themselves, so your vote tells me nothing about your allegiance. YOu've been behaving very much like someone in Rob's camp.

[Zany Dex]

Fwiw russ is no longer giving me warm and civvie thoughts

Lol SVS fair enough

[Snow Dog]

I vote Epig to show that I am not on his team and that I am not a baddie. Plain and simple. Why would I vote for a teammate? I would not vote for him to say, "I am Epig's teammate and I'm going to try to prove to you that I'm not", b/c I am a horrible liar.

And, yes, you'll be eating socks I'm telling you, I am a horrible liar. And, I am not baddie. I am definitely civvie and a friend of yours

I just don't believe you. Ever since the lynch switch it was clear that Epi was going down. His teammate(s) would have had little choice but to vote for him or draw suspicion onto themselves, so your vote tells me nothing about your allegiance. YOu've been behaving very much like someone in Rob's camp.

Exactly what i said in my defence. If I had been on his team i would have had to vote FOR him. Especially considering by the time we voted there was absolutely no question he would have most votes.

[thellama73]

The fact that they tried to kill me night one could go either way; they did it to shut me up about Llama, or they did it to frame Llama. Either is very possible, and I am aware of that. I will likely vote Elo today, unless something changes.

I really hope the Spider doesn't insanify you tomorrow, because I know I will get the blame for it!

[S~V~S]

You know its gonna happen now, right? Thanks

[Snow Dog]

So the baddies are amongst the Epignosis votes.

Disgruntled Porcupine - 2 - Snow Dog (14), thellama73 (16) 10%

Epignosis - 13 - blindfaeth (3), MovingPictures07 (7), Flyin' High (8), reywaS (9), DisgruntledPorcupine (10), Russtifinko (11), LittleTiger (12), Ambray (13), >SpaghettiEverywhere (15), Roxy (17), He-Man (18), birdwithteeth11 (20), Elohcin (21) 62%

thellama73 - 3 - S~V~S (2), Boogs (6), Epignosis (19) 14%

[Ambray]

Fwiw russ is no longer giving me warm and civvie thoughts

Me neither.
He was who I was referring to after the lynch when I said I was eyeing someone.

[thellama73]

I think Epi is most likely the zombie (if he is bad, of course). That's because if he were another baddie, it's possible that his teammates would allow him to be lynched and try to distance themselves from him (aside from Eloh, who was probably in trouble if he went down). On the other hand, if he were zombie he'd have been forced to use the switch, since it would have been his only chance before dying. If that's the case, Epi has no power anymore (except possibly using his team's NK), and thus is less valuable than the other baddies, who all have other powers to use. If everyone feels ok with an Eloh lynch, I think it has the potential to hurt the baddies more. Hope that makes sense. On the other hand, if people are more sure about Epi or feel a lynch for him would yield more info that's a fair argument to make.

People are mentioning Russ, so I did a reread of him and saw nothing alarming until I got to this. This is a piece of astonishingly clear reasoning, so clear in fact that it leads one to wonder if he didn't just know that Epi was a zombie all along. It would be a crafty and clever play to out a teammate and then later have the chance to say "I told you he was bad early on! How can I be his teammate?"

Of course, it could just be that Russ has an extraordinarily logical mind.

(yes, yes, I realize that this is all very WIFOM, but worth considering I think.)

[Ambray]

Nope, that's exactly why I wasn't getting warm and fuzzies.

Tbh, I've been feeling off with him for a majority of the game. But when he brought up Epig being the zombie and Epig did turn out to actually be the Zombie, alarm bells went off and I had actual reason to be suspicious.

I'm going to be very interested to look back and see at what point Russ said that in relation to the direction of the thread and whether it was pretty much a certainty that Epig would be lynched.

[Zany Dex]

Llama apart from the amount of time he defended epig dismissing my thoughts on him as 'personality clashes' or 'tunnel vision'

Only really coming round to the idea of voting for him when the fight was over. He tried to make elohcin sound worse than him with 'technicalities' etc

I just tried to make a case on him but my iPad crashed. So here are my thoughts, I would seriously recommend everyone re read russ.

[Zany Dex]

Nope, that's exactly why I wasn't getting warm and fuzzies.

Tbh, I've been feeling off with him for a majority of the game. But when he brought up Epig being the zombie and Epig did turn out to actually be the Zombie, alarm bells went off and I had actual reason to be suspicious.

I'm going to be very interested to look back and see at what point Russ said that in relation to the direction of the thread and whether it was pretty much a certainty that Epig would be lynched.

Yes again he 'taking credit' for predicting epig was zombies very

Russ is not looking civvie at all to me

[Ambray]

Oh and fwiw, I agree with MP that the civvie ninja taking out Eloh tonight would be a good thing.

I don't understand the reasoning others are using against it. That we need to lynch her to see where to go next? To have confirmation she is baddie?

If that's how you feel, arn't you basically telling the ninja to never use their power because we need to have confirmation on who is baddie and who isn't?
Sorry, that baffles me.

And tbh, I don't see how lynching Eloh will give us direction for the next lynch. What will it confirm/deny for you? Nothing for me, tbh. I think we have enough leads from the thread and with Epig alone.

[Ambray]

I'm curious Ruff, you say in one of your posts "As for the current discussion on llama, I think if Epi was not framed then they're likely teammates. If he was framed, however, I don't think it gives us any info on llama."

So do you still think Llama is Epig's teammate?

MP - The fact that Ruff here seems to be very pro killing Eloch instead of Epig in his posts is giving me pause for thought.
What do you think about Ruff?

[S~V~S]

Like I said (and i am the one who wants to see if she turns up bad, I am not as sure as some, perhaps) I know when i am Ninja, I like to follow my heart on kills, and let the thread take care of the obvious people. But thats me.

Whatever Stevie sees fit to do works with me; its just that my opinion of Llama at this point is tied up in whether Elo is bad or not. If she is, it is less likely to my mind that Llama is, and vice versa. So I would like to see her lynched, but again, Stevie should do as he wishes, not what me or anyone else tells him to do. It's his power, not ours.

[Ambray]

Like I said (and i am the one who wants to see if she turns up bad, I am not as sure as some, perhaps) I know when i am Ninja, I like to follow my heart on kills, and let the thread take care of the obvious people. But thats me.

Whatever Stevie sees fit to do works with me; its just that my opinion of Llama at this point is tied up in whether Elo is bad or not. If she is, it is less likely to my mind that Llama is, and vice versa. So I would like to see her lynched, but again, Stevie should do as he wishes, not what me or anyone else tells him to do. It's his power, not ours.

How is Llama connected to Eloch?

[S~V~S]

Wait a second, Sofi~ you think Russ was trying to kill Elo instead of Epig, yet you want her NKed?

You think Russ might have known Epig was bad since they were teammates, and then advocated lynching someone else, whom i would presume was not on his team, and you want to have that someone else NKed?

Now I think we need to know her affiliation even more, if it is possible that Epigs bad teammate was saying "lynch Elo, not Epig", would that not indicate that she was not on that team?

And I said TO MY MIND. If she comes up bad, numerically, I doubt Llama was on that team, the way the Day One lynch went down.

But do you think Elo might be a civ? Not on Russ and Epigs potential team?

[thellama73]

I would like to see how Elohcin flips for one major reason, to further my read on Snow Dog, who I am coming increasingly to suspect.

If Elohcin is bad, then we know two of the baddies voted Ship in day zero. Snow Dog also voted ship, and as others have pointed out, his discusion over the logic of ouse votes read like he was pushing Ship.

Then there's this:

So the baddies are amongst the Epignosis votes.

I agree that logically, baddies would have been more likely to vote Epignosis, but the categorical nature of the statement struck me as trying to brush away suspicion from himself with a little too much eagerness.

If Elohcin flips civvie, however, I would be less likely to suspect Snow Dog based on the Ship evidence.

[S~V~S]

Yeah, I have to agree, Llama. And now that a very credible theory has been presented saying that Russ may have been Epigs teammate, and Russ WANTED to kill Elo, that makes me think she could even be a civvie.

Personally, if i were Stevie, i would rather NK Russ, lol.

[Ambray]

Wait a second, Sofi~ you think Russ was trying to kill Elo instead of Epig, yet you want her NKed?

You think Russ might have known Epig was bad since they were teammates, and then advocated lynching someone else, whom i would presume was not on his team, and you want to have that someone else NKed?

Now I think we need to know her affiliation even more, if it is possible that Epigs bad teammate was saying "lynch Elo, not Epig", would that not indicate that she was not on that team?

And I said TO MY MIND. If she comes up bad, numerically, I doubt Llama was on that team, the way the Day One lynch went down.

But do you think Elo might be a civ? Not on Russ and Epigs potential team?

You should note from the timing of my posts that I only noticed this with Russ' posts AFTER I posted that about having her taken out.

Hmm, do I think Elo is civ? Not necessarily. I'm conflicted. I easily see how others are thinking Elo is bad and I am more than happy to follow. My own feelings are that Russ is the bad one.
I don't believe that those ideas are mutually inclusive and believe only 1 of them can be bad with how Russ' posts come across. I shall need to re read Elo's posts.

[Tangrowth]

Hmmm... interesting comments about Russ. I'll go re-read him and see what I can find. I'll look at Elohcin's posts again as well. But I don't feel good about how it seems to me Elohcin's behavior has been classic baddie and yet people are trying to steer away from that.

Hello, just checking in.

The recent developments have made me really comfortable with my vote for Epig, so I'm hoping for the best there.

I know MP & Ambray were asking for my opinion of Boogs. FWIW I was with him in his apartment yesterday from 4 until 11ish, and any time we were catching up in the thread/posting, he wasn't deliberating in baddie chatrooms. For whatever that's worth. So any theories, etc etc is all him during that time period, he had no coaching or whatnot.

I always have this image of couples that play mafia...

Awkward dinner table conversations, "Oh, what were you doing on the computer just now?" "Nothing."

You have no idea how true this really is. And Alex makes it ten freaking times worse, because he literally CANNOT STAND not talking to me about something. Playing games with him is so difficult, I have to remind him constantly not to talk about the game! That said, being a Baddie with him in AHS over on Hedville was the most fun I have had in a game ever.

This is very true. And of course I make it ten freaking times worse, lol, because it drives me up the wall! I'm not sure I want to play another game with you any time soon for that reason, although I do like playing games with you. During MOTU I was all like, "You're bad, aren't you? Your team tried to kill me, didn't they? DIDN'T THEY?!?!" Lol.

Actually, I did not see that you said it, I thought MP said it, I have not totally caught up. Got home, read Llamas posts, skimmed MPs, was gonna read the rest with dinner and a nice drink

And I know I have said that too, but I am really trying to get away from that kind of term, it sounds baddie, when a lot of the time it isn't. Sometimes it is just stubborness, though. I can be stubborn, as, I am sure, many of us can be~

I did say you were exercising tunnel vision because you were refusing to see anything about Epig for quite a long time there and frothed over llama. Yes, I know it's only Day 2, but I didn't mean it as a necessarily baddie term and certainly not as an insulting one.

Alright. Whew, that was a lot to catch up on. Let me just say that you are completely 100% wrong about me Alex. You are right that I was/am hesitant during MOTU. It is my first Mafia game. I was getting my feet wet, learning the ropes. I said I wouldn't post unless I was most certain of what I had to say. But, this is my second game, I have now watched many of you play the game with accusations and speculations right at the very beginning. So, I thought I would give it a try. I thought it would be fun to dive right in and be a more active player. All that did was get you to think I am a baddie. Also, I am not Epig's teammate. Just b/c I thought that he wasn't being a hypocrite doesn't mean I am either. So, to try to prove we are not teammates, I will vote Epig. Although, you will probably respond to my vote that I had no problem voting Epig b/c he already has so many votes and is sure to be lynched anyway. No matter what, I doubt you'll change your mind about me until you eventually find out my role. And, once you do....you will be eating all those socks. And after that, you will be apologizing as well. Just wait and see

If I'm wrong, then who do you think is baddie? Why are you voting Epig? You don't even say more than just "to try to prove we are not teammates, I will vote Epig." Which reads to me as "I am Epig's teammate and I'm going to try to prove to you that I'm not."

Why did you vote for DP? If you seriously thought what people were saying about Snow Dog early in the game made him most suspicious, why did you drop it absolutely and completely, only to then turn to He-Man looking suspicious, and then not mentioning any of those things again and voting a low poster? How was DP most worthy of your vote and seemingly most baddie?

And I really don't think I'll be eating socks.

I vote Epig to show that I am not on his team and that I am not a baddie. Plain and simple. Why would I vote for a teammate? I would not vote for him to say, "I am Epig's teammate and I'm going to try to prove to you that I'm not", b/c I am a horrible liar.

My reasons for voting DP were clear. I stated SD sounded like a good lynch withing the first few posts of the game. He was the only one being pingy right from the start. However, he became less pingy. I also said low posters was a good way to go. In the end, I chose the lowest poster. I think that choice is better than trying to speculate who is baddie so early in the game.

And, yes, you'll be eating socks I'm telling you, I am a horrible liar. And, I am not baddie. I am definitely civvie and a friend of yours

Uh, what? How were they clear? How did that make him most baddie? You didn't answer that one. What you did is called a throwaway vote so you don't actually have to lie and contribute to discussion and call someone out as suspicious, and so you don't draw attention to yourself.

I also asked you for your thoughts on current happenings, but of course, you've been saying near nothing on that front, other than Epig is bad. Yes, we all know that. Who do you think is bad?

[Tangrowth]

Woah, reading Russ's posts really is something else when you look at them one after another. He hadn't really caught my eye until people started mentioning him, so props for that. I'll pull a few things that I think are interesting.

[S~V~S]

Wait a second, Sofi~ you think Russ was trying to kill Elo instead of Epig, yet you want her NKed?

You think Russ might have known Epig was bad since they were teammates, and then advocated lynching someone else, whom i would presume was not on his team, and you want to have that someone else NKed?

Now I think we need to know her affiliation even more, if it is possible that Epigs bad teammate was saying "lynch Elo, not Epig", would that not indicate that she was not on that team?

And I said TO MY MIND. If she comes up bad, numerically, I doubt Llama was on that team, the way the Day One lynch went down.

But do you think Elo might be a civ? Not on Russ and Epigs potential team?

You should note from the timing of my posts that I only noticed this with Russ' posts AFTER I posted that about having her taken out.

Hmm, do I think Elo is civ? Not necessarily. I'm conflicted. I easily see how others are thinking Elo is bad and I am more than happy to follow. My own feelings are that Russ is the bad one.
I don't believe that those ideas are mutually inclusive and believe only 1 of them can be bad with how Russ' posts come across. I shall need to re read Elo's posts.

You thought she was a good NK choice without reading her posts?

And you made that post saying we should NK Elo after discussing how Russ thought Epig was the Zombie, so not sure how the timing plays into this.

Oh well, if Russ is bad, you certainly are not, so maybe we should be discussing a lynch of him, and let Stevie do as Stevie sees fit.

I totally LOVE playing with new people So mysterious

[Snow Dog]

It seems I can't shake of some peoples suspicions.

[Tangrowth]

Okay, here's what's really interesting about Russ. Thank you, multiple people, for pointing in his direction, because now I don't feel NKing Elohcin is such a good idea. It seemed pretty clear to me her behavior is classic baddie, and it still could be, but maybe she's just dug herself a newbie hole here.

Nonetheless, here's Russ:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=13795#p13795 He votes llama on Day 1 for his DP vote because it pinged him like crazy.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=13802#p13802 He says llama is his #1 suspect, and yet then he says the Epi/He-Man and Rox/llama things were personality clashes, like I was suggesting. Now I did think this was weird and I asked him about it because if llama was his #1 suspect, how could he disregard the personality clashes as evidence? I realize that means he was finding llama solely suspicious on his DP vote. But it's still a bit contradictory because he says he thinks I was "spot on" with llama. I never thought llama was bad.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=13915#p13915 Here he says if it was a baddie switch to save Epi, it was a "poor idea". He's leaning slightly more towards framing but isn't sure yet.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=13921#p13921 He says his gut is leaning civ on Snow Dog, but does question him. More importantly, he asks He-Man about Epi and states to beware of tunnel vision.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=14118#p14118 Then when I'm rezzed and post my giant case, he realizes to switch gears, and agrees that it was an excellent case. But for some reason, he says the thread evidence is stronger for Elohcin than Epig.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=14119#p14119 He starts trying to figure out who the 4th person might be, assuming my case is correct, which is very pre-emptive. Eh, Idk on this one. I like to discuss things in advance too, but he would love my case if he is baddie and Elohcin and S~V~S aren't, because then only one of them will go down if everyone listens to me.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=14129#p14129 Now on reflection this is pingy. He says Epig's defense seemed "pretty solid". I responded to him and pretty much said, "No, it's anything but! And here's why." He asks for other leads, which is strange, as if he's trying to say, OK, move on!
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=14154#p14154 Then he vouches for receiving something for his Day 0 vote. Then he says he agrees with Epig that I'm taking his squashing discussion thing out of context. And then his Epig is Zombie theory! Really strange, because... how are we supposed to even tell who is on which team? There was NO way of knowing that. He pushes for the Elohcin lynch again.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=14163#p14163 Trying to get a consensus, really hoping to push for Elohcin subtly.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=14214#p14214 Here he finally votes Epig. But he says he "never felt very bad about it before, anyway" (about voting him). I don't know about that one.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=14361#p14361 Then his most recent post where he takes credit for Epig being zombie. It does feel off, once you read through everything.

In summary, if Elohcin actually is a civvie here, Russ's push to get Elohcin lynched over Epig makes TOTAL SENSE. Then Elohcin would have flipped civvie, Epig would have been possibly cleared, and they could have tried to lynch Snow Dog or llama from there on out.

That being said, Elohcin's behavior still seems really odd to me, but it's very possible we've been hoodwinked, and llama is not the true main scapegoat (that would be more true if S~V~S were bad), but Elohcin is.

She did vote for ship, and then she did eye Snow Dog, and then stick up for Epig, but then vote a low poster. It does seem really bad, but it's possible she just is on her own as well, I suppose.

Snow Dog's more recent posts convince me he's not where we should be looking. I still feel llama is probably not baddie either, but I don't know. I think we definitely need to look hard at Russ and Elohcin, currently. What's interesting is that if Russ is indeed bad, I do wonder about FH, because that seems like a logical connection to me. Anyone have any reads on her?

[Tangrowth]

It seems I can't shake of some peoples suspicions.

What do you think, Snow Dog? Who's your highest suspect, currently, now?

[Tangrowth]

Sorry for the triple post, but I have to hand it to you, S~V~S, (unless you're hoodwinking me), and I'm glad you stuck your ground with your thoughts on NKing Elohcin. I still think she definitely could be baddie, but I think Russ is a great candidate as well. I guess wasn't considering how Elohcin's behavior could be civvie at all, and I still don't really see it, but if Russ is baddie, that might change my mind just due to circumstance.

I'll go leave the thread alone now.

[Snow Dog]

FH voted for Epignosis very early. I'm sure he would have been telling them to wait until they saw if the Llama votes piled up. She could be the rogue for all I know but not on Epi's team.