Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[Tangrowth]

I remember birdwithteeth's vote standing out because it seemed like he was the only one to go for Bass without giving any reason, but I looked back and realized that's wrong and he stated agreement with my case in this post: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 34#p143634

that looks good and i approve, but for the sake of skepticism I'll say it's possible he could just be scum hopping on an easy and pre-established case, and one that didn't have as much momentum as some of the others and thus wouldn't be as likely to result in an actual lynch that day.

Usually, it takes me a few cycles to really get into a mafia game and start to go with some of my own ideas. So usually for Day 1, I look for something to catch my eye and I often get accused of piggybacking or parroting other peoples' ideas. Although I tend to think that I still add my own thoughts in there.

I still don't feel good about Bass. But I definitely want to hear more from everyone that voted early. Especially as to why they didn't hold off on voting until later with more discussion and information.

I can agree with the description of BWT's meta here. I feel good about him at the moment.

Read my posts as well as the end of Day 1 lynch and if you have any questions or still feel I haven't adequately explained, then feel free to ask me questions or me. As LoRab would say, eye me all you want; I have nothing to hide. :twirl:

Be back later, folks.

[Tangrowth]

Ah, crap. I meant

EBWOP

Now bye.

[Sloonei]

hey Sloonei, tell me what you think about all the RYMers.

In about 9 hours.
I was just trying to recall whether i've ever played a game with scummateo, but i'm pretty sure he's always been town when I've played, so i can't really meta-case him. But that's not usually a very big part of my game anyway. I'll break down all your posts later tonight.

[Sloonei]

"In 9 hours" because i'm off to work now, l8r thread

[birdwithteeth11]

This is definitely abnormal; it's custom for votes to be cast as late as possible, unless there is a significant reason otherwise.

I take full responsibility for my early vote. I believe I've given Elo every possible chance to prove her civilian behavior and I don't see it.

BWT, if you feel my early vote is unwarranted after you've read all my thoughts on the matter, so be it, but I think I've been more than clear.

I understand where you're coming from now. Personally, I still think it's better to wait until you absolutely cannot anymore. But that might be more a reflection of my mafia philosophy vs. yours. While I have voted for people super-early before, I'm just not the biggest fan of doing so.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One new thing that troubles me about Bass is that despite being Day 1's #2 vote recipient and near-lynchee, his only visit on Day 2 so far has not been very useful for reading him.

Can you please show me where I said I was suspected MP? I said I wanted to keep an eye on him because I felt like he was acting different this game. The I gave a short list of what I thought.

Saying you want to keep an eye on someone is pretty much the same thing as suspecting them. You're not directly accusing them of being mafia, but you think there's something worth watching out for.

But you never pursued it, or anything for that matter. You just stayed neutral until you were in danger of getting lynched and you had to put a self defense vote.

Is that how you always play? I'm saying this because I remember someone mentioning you always play like this.

Why would I pursue someone I'm just keeping an eye on. The way I play is with my gut.

i agree with DDL in this exchange. i don't understand the distinction Bass is drawing between "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player". one might assert that the former is a little less significant, but it's still an expression of suspicion.

otherwise Bass has only talked a little bit about strategy regarding whoever stole the serial killer's role last night. and either alignment can jump into that discussion comfortably.

[birdwithteeth11]

One new thing that troubles me about Bass is that despite being Day 1's #2 vote recipient and near-lynchee, his only visit on Day 2 so far has not been very useful for reading him.

Can you please show me where I said I was suspected MP? I said I wanted to keep an eye on him because I felt like he was acting different this game. The I gave a short list of what I thought.

Saying you want to keep an eye on someone is pretty much the same thing as suspecting them. You're not directly accusing them of being mafia, but you think there's something worth watching out for.

But you never pursued it, or anything for that matter. You just stayed neutral until you were in danger of getting lynched and you had to put a self defense vote.

Is that how you always play? I'm saying this because I remember someone mentioning you always play like this.

Why would I pursue someone I'm just keeping an eye on. The way I play is with my gut.

i agree with DDL in this exchange. i don't understand the distinction Bass is drawing between "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player". one might assert that the former is a little less significant, but it's still an expression of suspicion.

otherwise Bass has only talked a little bit about strategy regarding whoever stole the serial killer's role last night. and either alignment can jump into that discussion comfortably.

Exactly. I usually think of "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player" as the same thing. So Bass' comment struck me as odd in the sense that if you're doing one, you're doing the other. Why differentiate, Bass?

[fingersplints]

Splints, can you explain what it is you see that's similar about Elo's game here to her civ game in RR? I'm not seeing it, but it's possible you're catching something that I'm not.

I've explained away so many players' behavior in past games due to meta. I'm sticking to my guns here, even in spite of Elo's meta (since I think this is baddie Elo), since I've already cast my vote, but I'm hoping you can illuminate this matter nonetheless.

The major difference is that I had btsc with her in RR for a period or so, but it was an eventful period. And it was during then she learned she had been majorly played by almost everyone else she had btsc with. I feel like her tone now matches that more. It's more reactive and emotionally charged. When she was bad in Zelda I found her to be more dismissive about accusations, and when she was getting lynched I don't remember her getting like this.

[fingersplints]

Those two things have totally different meanings to me. Keeping an eye on = fairly neutral read but still wary. Suspecting = something more substantial

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ooh sneaky, maybe I'll have to recant my opinion about you being a good guy
I'm not milking the noob card I just skim a lot and miss things, it's as lame as that >_>

Anyway, I'm just gonna go ahead and Vote Elohcin. I'm assuming you're not a lying dirty wolf in sheep's clothing misleading me; apart from Bass I don't really know who else to vote for and don't really want to spend more time on it. Elohcin if you're innocent i'm TRULY SORRY and to everyone else, please don't bandwagon. I don't want to be responsible for lynching an innocent. That's probably what got Golden killed.

Hey Sloonei, look at the bit i just bolded up there in that quote.

TinyBubbles, why don't you want to spend more time thinking about your vote? you have quite a long time before the deadline, and who knows who else might influence you? how you might feel yourself? and why trust me so thoroughly as you just drop a vote on the one name i gave you as a suspect?

I could think of 2 reasons TinyBubbles might drop a vote so early on your main suspect:

1) Possibly he's buddying up to you, and wants you to think he's a civ by comparison.

2) If Elo is lynched and flips civ, he could use it as a way to put responsibility on you. I.e. "I only voted Elo because I agreed with JJJ" or something along those lines.

so you don't think there's a civilian mindset to be found in TinyBubbles's vote? i might suggest:

3) in her timid newness, she was willing to put all her eggs in the basket of the player with the 2nd most posts in the thread and absolve herself of the workload

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I found her to be more dismissive about accusations

i think this statement could apply to her pretty effectively in this game.

[fingersplints]

Really? I guess I am reading her different then you guys. I feel like she is at least trying to address the suspicions

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Really? I guess I am reading her different then you guys. I feel like she is at least trying to address the suspicions

this phase i think she has done better in that regard. she finally addressed all of the beefs i had stated in Day/Night 1. but for a while she only seemed interesting in addressing the points made against her by MP. i wasn't sure to make of that, because i know new people inherently get drowned out a little bit (not a complaint, it's just the way forums work) and we could have legitimately been overlooked.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Ok I have a bit of time so if anyone wants to ask me anythingg now is the time or if there are any questions I did answer please point them out.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ok I have a bit of time so if anyone wants to ask me anythingg now is the time or if there are any questions I did answer please point them out.

i have a few:

1.) how do you personally differentiate "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player"?

2.) who are your top suspects right now and why? you don't have to point to specific posts if time doesn't permit, but please try to offer some explanation.

3.) of the five players who voted for you on Day 1, who do you feel was the most suspicious for doing so?

4.) how might you respond to the points i made against you in this post:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 28#p143328

[birdwithteeth11]

Ooh sneaky, maybe I'll have to recant my opinion about you being a good guy
I'm not milking the noob card I just skim a lot and miss things, it's as lame as that >_>

Anyway, I'm just gonna go ahead and Vote Elohcin. I'm assuming you're not a lying dirty wolf in sheep's clothing misleading me; apart from Bass I don't really know who else to vote for and don't really want to spend more time on it. Elohcin if you're innocent i'm TRULY SORRY and to everyone else, please don't bandwagon. I don't want to be responsible for lynching an innocent. That's probably what got Golden killed.

Hey Sloonei, look at the bit i just bolded up there in that quote.

TinyBubbles, why don't you want to spend more time thinking about your vote? you have quite a long time before the deadline, and who knows who else might influence you? how you might feel yourself? and why trust me so thoroughly as you just drop a vote on the one name i gave you as a suspect?

I could think of 2 reasons TinyBubbles might drop a vote so early on your main suspect:

1) Possibly he's buddying up to you, and wants you to think he's a civ by comparison.

2) If Elo is lynched and flips civ, he could use it as a way to put responsibility on you. I.e. "I only voted Elo because I agreed with JJJ" or something along those lines.

so you don't think there's a civilian mindset to be found in TinyBubbles's vote? i might suggest:

3) in her timid newness, she was willing to put all her eggs in the basket of the player with the 2nd most posts in the thread and absolve herself of the workload

That is a possibility too. I tend to associate such an act with more of my #2.

How many games has TinyBubbles played so far? I know it's been stated she's fairly new but idk how new she is.

[birdwithteeth11]

Ok I have a bit of time so if anyone wants to ask me anythingg now is the time or if there are any questions I did answer please point them out.

i have a few:

1.) how do you personally differentiate "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player"?

2.) who are your top suspects right now and why? you don't have to point to specific posts if time doesn't permit, but please try to offer some explanation.

3.) of the five players who voted for you on Day 1, who do you feel was the most suspicious for doing so?

4.) how might you respond to the points i made against you in this post:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 28#p143328

I would like to hear #1 and #2 the most personally. That's what I was typing up as you posted this. :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How many games has TinyBubbles played so far? I know it's been stated she's fairly new but idk how new she is.

i think someone else said this is her second mafia game ever.

[fingersplints]

How many games has TinyBubbles played so far? I know it's been stated she's fairly new but idk how new she is.

One game. It was the first game of mafia played on that site, and it only had 12 people (6 from TS - 1 from STV/RM) The game she played was played the same as here, except without polls, as it was hosted by 2 players fom STV/RM.

[Turnip Head]

I don't think Elo's bad. Especially her recent reactions read genuinely to me.

I thought TinyBubbles' vote for Elo was sketchy because, if you look back through Bubbles' posts, she was setting up suspicion of Bass and only Bass, but then MP and Jay make one post each talking about Elo being a better option, and Bubbles immediately rolls with that. The line "If you're a civvie Elo I'm so so sorry!" reeks a bit because if Bubbles was really sorry she wouldn't have voted a player she's not suspicious of. And I think it's a little hokey to allude to someone being lynched when you're literally the first person to cast a vote for that person.

That said, I thought I saw one thing in Bubbles' filter that made me think she's on the level and just playing a little loosely. So I guess what I'd like is Bubbles' answer to the following "Why abandon your read on Bass and piggyback onto the suspicion of Jay and MP?" I believe Bubbles mentioned trusting those two, and I don't think they're baddies either atm, but it doesn't mean they're right about everything either.

MP, can you once again lay out why you don't think Elo's thought process can come from a civ perspective? We've both played many games with her, we both know her perspective is not always the same as everyone else's, so I'm curious exactly what you're seeing there. And what happened to your splints' suspicion?

[fingersplints]

Why are you trying to divert suspicion to me TH? I thought we were friends

[Turnip Head]

Why are you trying to divert suspicion to me TH? I thought we were friends

We are friends! I just want to know what happened to make MP so narrow-minded today.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

is it typical of Roxy to have so few posts compared with the rest of the players?

[Turnip Head]

It's only Day 2 so it's hard to say. 10 seems a little low.

[birdwithteeth11]

is it typical of Roxy to have so few posts compared with the rest of the players?

Meh. I'd give her a little more time. She'll come out of her shell eventually. And gun blazing most likely.

[Turnip Head]

So G-Man used real people words on Day 0, but not on Day 1 or 2. Any theories? I want to let the new players to know that rarely are any Night actions used before Night 1... obviously this game or any game could be different.

[Turnip Head]

Also I do not recommend opening G-Man's post filter using phone data

[JaggedJimmyJay]

for much of Day 1 i gave positive reads of Black Rock. and now as i re-examine the posts, i am not sure why. her second post (first one quoted below) impressed me, but at this point i don't feel that way anymore mostly because there is much more content to judge and it doesn't hold up.

some beefs:

Just catching up here. You guys have been busy today.

This post is where I'm at.

I see that DDL thinks all those who've been posting tonight look like town. I disagree, but not only that, I highly doubt that none of the mafia are talking. I just can't see that being the case. Honestly, I see MP's over-helpful behavior as suspicious. I know we have a lot of new players and he wants to be helpful, but there's just something fishy about it.

I really don't see MP as being overly helpful. I see it more as him excited about the new players and helping them out. I would expect this behaviour from MP and I would expect you to see this as well.

observe here the distinct defense of MP. Elo had suggested there was "something fishy" about MP, and Black Rock responded with this rebuttal. i don't think there's any good way to assert that this post is not a defense of MP. so, a bit later after MP raised suspicion of Black Rock for that defense...

I didn't realize I defended you. I thought I was just saying how I perceived it. I felt Elohcin was trying to blow it out of proportion which made me eye her. I guess my words could have been perceived as defending.

hm.

this looks like backtracking now. she didn't want to be associated with the defense of MP, but from my perspective she was clearly doing so in the prior post. and i didn't think her defense of MP was anything to be suspicious of. but this denial of that defense is more suspicious.

I will explain my MP post. Yes it does look like a defense. I don't consider it a defense because I was just stating fact as I seen it. I often don't explain everything going on in my mind, I like to keep my cards close to the vest. I only commented on it because I thought Elohcin's reasoning was off and it pinged me. I was waiting to see more before I announced her as a suspicion. I am very surprised that Splints thought I was suspicious because of this. She knows my play style better than most people playing this game. I'll be watching her as well.

here she explains the discrepancy. i don't know that it answers the question though -- i suppose she is saying that her intent was more to accuse Elo than to defend MP... but i'd still state that defending MP was the entire mechanism by which that accusation was possible. so i view it a little dubiously.

ever since that point, she has been very much uninvolved with the continuing discussion. she also missed the vote, which might suggest there have been external distractions preventing her from keeping up.

Poll's closed.

acrosstheaether, Black Rock, Dom, and TinyBubbles have all missed the vote.

Sorry about that. Today was a shit show for me. I am so many pages behind so I don't even know what went on during the lynch.

and this post suggests the same. but i can't help but be concerned about a player with one suspicious encounter early in the game and nothing else since other than a little detached commentary and off-topic posting.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Bubbles vote was fishy af, felt like she isn't even trying.

"hey I'm a noob and I dont know how to play so imma drop a vote on someone everyone is suspecting and check out for the phase cya".

A lot of her posts feel like honest inexperience though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So G-Man used real people words on Day 0, but not on Day 1 or 2. Any theories? I want to let the new players to know that rarely are any Night actions used before Night 1... obviously this game or any game could be different.

is there any precedent you call recall for unique role stipulations triggering on Day 1 instead of Day 0?

[fingersplints]

f but i can't help but be concerned about a player with one suspicious encounter early in the game and nothing else since other than a little detached commentary and off-topic posting.

I think she might be busy and bad.

[Turnip Head]

So G-Man used real people words on Day 0, but not on Day 1 or 2. Any theories? I want to let the new players to know that rarely are any Night actions used before Night 1... obviously this game or any game could be different.

is there any precedent you call recall for unique role stipulations triggering on Day 1 instead of Day 0?

No. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I just can't think of any times it has.

[Turnip Head]

And you make some good points about BR. I look forward to her response.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Ok I have a bit of time so if anyone wants to ask me anythingg now is the time or if there are any questions I did answer please point them out.

i have a few:

1.) how do you personally differentiate "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player"?

2.) who are your top suspects right now and why? you don't have to point to specific posts if time doesn't permit, but please try to offer some explanation.

3.) of the five players who voted for you on Day 1, who do you feel was the most suspicious for doing so?

4.) how might you respond to the points i made against you in this post:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 28#p143328

1. IMO keeping an eye on someone is just something I see that isn't the norm for that person it doesn't make me suspect them it just makes me want to watch that person and see if there is more to what I noticed. Suspecting a person is when I have found something worth voting for .

2. Just so you know I really don't pull quotes. But my suspects so far are-
- Elo because she voted someone she felt good about and gave a lame excuse. She acted like she knew his game and unless she has played with him somewhere else golden just started playing on this site and has died early every game. So how would she know his game?

- TinyBubbles because I was her top suspect and she votes Elo. Why give up on your top suspect if there is a chance that person can get lynched? I understand she trust people who voted Elo but I think piggybacking because of "trust" is something that mafias do to get in good with people who are vocal and seem super civvie.

3. Out of the the five people who voted me I think BWT's vote pinged me the most it came out of no where.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

1. IMO keeping an eye on someone is just something I see that isn't the norm for that person it doesn't make me suspect them it just makes me want to watch that person and see if there is more to what I noticed. Suspecting a person is when I have found something worth voting for .

2. Just so you know I really don't pull quotes. But my suspects so far are-
- Elo because she voted someone she felt good about and gave a lame excuse. She acted like she knew his game and unless she has played with him somewhere else golden just started playing on this site and has died early every game. So how would she know his game?

- TinyBubbles because I was her top suspect and she votes Elo. Why give up on your top suspect if there is a chance that person can get lynched? I understand she trust people who voted Elo but I think piggybacking because of "trust" is something that mafias do to get in good with people who are vocal and seem super civvie.

3. Out of the the five people who voted me I think BWT's vote pinged me the most it came out of no where.

thanks for addressing #1-3, Bass. i hope you find time for #4 as well, because that's probably the most important one for me personally. also: one of things you said on Day 1 that other people didn't like (myself included) was the bit about DDL being unreadable because he's new. it was seen as defensive of him because at that point he was the most pressured player in the thread.

now that a little more time has passed and all of us have amassed more posts, do you have more concrete perspectives to offer about DDL, Sloonei, sanmateo, and myself? we're all new and "unreadable" for meta as you previously asserted. so how do we look at face value?

[Black Rock]

I'm just popping in to say that I went down sick yesterday and have been in bed all day. I'm likely going back to bed. I can't possibly read this thread right now. I've got some sort of bad stomach virus.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

welp.

get well, BR.

[birdwithteeth11]

Ok I have a bit of time so if anyone wants to ask me anythingg now is the time or if there are any questions I did answer please point them out.

i have a few:

1.) how do you personally differentiate "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player"?

2.) who are your top suspects right now and why? you don't have to point to specific posts if time doesn't permit, but please try to offer some explanation.

3.) of the five players who voted for you on Day 1, who do you feel was the most suspicious for doing so?

4.) how might you respond to the points i made against you in this post:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 28#p143328

1. IMO keeping an eye on someone is just something I see that isn't the norm for that person it doesn't make me suspect them it just makes me want to watch that person and see if there is more to what I noticed. Suspecting a person is when I have found something worth voting for.

Fair enough. Just wanted your clarification here.

2. Just so you know I really don't pull quotes. But my suspects so far are-
- Elo because she voted someone she felt good about and gave a lame excuse. She acted like she knew his game and unless she has played with him somewhere else golden just started playing on this site and has died early every game. So how would she know his game?

She might have been clinging to a reason to latch onto a Golden vote. That would be my guess at least.

- TinyBubbles because I was her top suspect and she votes Elo. Why give up on your top suspect if there is a chance that person can get lynched? I understand she trust people who voted Elo but I think piggybacking because of "trust" is something that mafias do to get in good with people who are vocal and seem super civvie.

Fair enough again. I'm hoping to hear more from her on this before I reserve further judgement.

3. Out of the the five people who voted me I think BWT's vote pinged me the most it came out of no where.

Out of nowhere? I think I gave a fairly good justification for it.

[Golden]

That said, I have a take home final, my replication, a different paper, and some other things to work on, so those are all reasons that I will almost certainly hardly be around at all tomorrow.

Prove it. Show me your personal schedule pad. And your syllabus.

j/k

funniest post ever!

Also, it's nice of G-Man to say he loves me so often.

[Tangrowth]

Dammit. I do regret my early vote a bit, but truth be told I just really, really, REALLY think Elo is bad and I just couldn't see my vote being better utilized anywhere else, because I'm just going to keep wondering about her until she's gone.

I echo Jay's opinion that I think Elo has been dismissive (a baddie tell for her) this game, until she finally switched it up in her most recent response to Jay. Sometimes she was more like "I don't understand" that outright dismissive. See the following:

I have seen people lie about RL. I have seen Epi catch them in lies about RL and be bad. Heck, I have caught people in lies about RL who were bad. Umm......I can't think of her name atm. Your friends from school, accountant, she lied to me about her kid being sick and she had to take care of him so she could go an converse with her baddie team on how to handle talking with me. Players do it....you could be to. You may not be. I said Epi COULD, MAY, MIGHT BE on to something.

linki with MP - what about my most recent post (not counting this one) makes me go from green ALLLLL the way to red on your list? What did I say? Was it the fact that I said I have experience baddie lies about RL before? Was it that I said your emotional response made me wonder? Was it that I said I will give you the benefit of the doubt to cool down so I can hear from a rational MP tomorrow? What was it? Tell me, please.

Hey I can vouch for Epi being at work til 8pm. We are having grilled cheese and tomato soup for dinner b/c of it

LINKI LINKI LINKI

I clearly said why I found her suspicious, yet she acts like I haven't.

And still, can someone please tell me WHY you want to lynch me? B/c I know Epi has caught baddies lying about RL? B/c I said Epi COULD BE, MIGHT BE onto something with MP? B/c I said MPs emotional outburst makes me question him?

By this time, more than a few players had CLEARLY stated why Elo was suspicious.

Wow, Blue's Clues. I used to watch that like... 15 years ago?

I feel so old. Hey Epi! "HOME! HOME" Our son watched it when he was like 7-8 months old. We we horrible parents in that he would wake up at 5am every morning. So, we kept a pack-n-play full of toys in the living room and would turn on Blues Clues or Baby Einstein and then we would lay back down for just a little more sleep. There was one episode of Blues Clues, Simon would clap his hands and say, "HOME, HOME" with Steve. Simon will be eight in July.

Now. I know many of you are looking at me for tomorrow's lynch. I really don't know how to depend myself b/c I am getting very vague answers as to why I am suspicious. Please, someone (other than MP), as the new day begins, if you are still looking to vote me, just plainly and clearly tell me what I did wrong so I can defend myself. I say someone other than MP, b/c I have heard him rant and rave about me enough already and I think his emotional crazies are getting you all in an uproar about me and I am wondering if you are just going off of that or if you have your own true reasons. Reread me if you must. We will only be on Day 2, there shouldn't be much. But please, give me something to defend against. I don't want to hear my vote was weird or I believed Epi about MP lies. Why was my vote weird? I never said I believed Epi for sure, I said he may be on to something b/c I have experienced similar circumstances. Anyway....if you are going to lynch me, you can at least help me out by telling me WHY?

Linki BR

It just says it all, IMO.

She also is lying:

Oh look, I died early again.

I think we set a collective record for our shortest combined time in game. and that was already looooooow.

There should be an award for this at the end of the year

i already said this a few times tho, are yall skipping over my posts? people do that in rym and i hate it

i think we noobs are going to have to scream a little louder to ensure our contributions are noticed. i don't think my stuff is getting read by most others either.

I'm not skipping posts. I know what its like to feel ignored. I thought people were skipping my posts/ignoring me b/c I would say things and make cases and no one would banter with me or even respond. One time I threw a tiny fit about it and one of the players told me something like, "we don't have to respond to take what you say into consideration." I thought it was a little mean, it is what it is. The only time people ever really respond to me is when they think something I said was suspicious. That's why I generally stay quiet in Mafia, I observe a lot and talk a little. But this game was different. Everyone was talking SO much on Day 0 and I felt if I were quiet I would be immediately suspected. The newbs were all trying to get the rest of us to talk talk talk. SO I talked. It was fun until I nonchalantly said that Epi could be on to something and MP threw a FIT! I stand by what I say about Epi. He has caught baddies from deciphering lies about real life. I also said that I have had players pull one over on my b/c they lied about real life. AND, I said that I have been encouraged to lie about real life in order to help myself as a baddie. I said I will not do it, I think its low. And then I said, with Epi COULD BE, MIGHT BE, POSSIBLY MAY BE on to something. THEN......Sockie over there BLOWS UP! - Throws a monstrous FIT about me saying that Epi could be on to something. THAT is when I said, good gracious man, your emotional outburst is now what's making me wonder about you. And MP turned that around to say that his defense made me WAY MORE SUSPICIOUS of him than I was before. I wasn't even suspicious of him from what Epi said. I just said Epi might be on to something. It was his reaction that made me think, "wow, maybe Epi is actually right." I cannot believe that my words, "I think Epi could be onto something" would get everyone to eye ME? Have none of you ever said anything to gauge a reaction? WOO-WEE did I get a reaction!!! And y'all are looking at ME? I just don't get it.
MP also made stuff up about my vote, told a lie. He said that I posted that I thought Golden was CIV! Then he later quote a post from me where I say Golden is my #2 suspect. He said that I never had an opinion on anyone but him, but then he quoted a post where I mention several names and what I think about them.

Now, I am not saying MP is bad. I am not sure of his allignment. But I AM saying he is making up a bunch of crap about me and that he reacted in a very crazy manner to my post that was not even confrontational AT ALL.

I'm not fully caught up, but I am posting this now and will read more and post more.

Here she says she never said Golden is civ, but she clearly did:

I don't know about you, but I think Elo is civ civ civ hehe

Anyway, I am leaning civ on Epi, Golden, MM, Splints, and Jimmy. I am not sure about San, Sloo, DDL, MP, and BR.

[Tangrowth]

Vague answers? Are you serious?

You suspected me blatantly. You suspected NO ONE else. Then said that my emotional outburst didn't help me, so you clearly still suspected me. Then you voted for someone for whom you had a previously unexplained civilian read, which you still refuse to explain.

There is absolutely no fathomable situation in which you are a civilian.

It's interesting that you disagree because literally every defense she has made seems fabricated to me. I still can't fathom how she hasn't made up all of her thoughts on everyone.

Normally I would agree with you; I almost always wait until the last possible minute. She has defended herself plenty now and only convinced me further that she's mafia.

you might be right. i think it is important though to state what she could have said which would have given you pause. was it possible for her to give you pause? do you think you might be tunneling?

Throughout all of her defenses, if she could have explained why, with explanations, why she was leaning civilian on a handful of people, why she was leaning not sure on those other people, and why she voted for Golden even though she was giving me the BotD, despite me having clearly calmed down by then, etc. She doesn't even seem to recognize that I'm playing this game normally, she keeps harping on how emotional I am and trying to discredit my opinions. If Elo were civilian, she'd be MUCH more open minded to me and other players. In addition, in her defenses, she kept repeating over and over again why we really thought she was bad and how all she saw was vague accusations, which couldn't have been further from the truth. It's all manipulation.

If instead she had recognized, OK, yes, I realize my vote looks bad, but here's what I was thinking, and laid it out, instead not trying to discredit my or anyone else's opinions, recognizing she had read her accusations, etc., then I would have paused about her.

Instead, it just seems like she first tried to discredit all of us by acting like the suspicion was coming out of nowhere and that it wasn't explained, then now she's desperately trying to make stuff up to cover her tracks.

Hope that makes sense.

TH, does this answer your question?

[Tangrowth]

Also, regarding splints, see my most recent Rainbow List: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 85#p144185

But here's what I said in that post:

[quote=MovingPictures07]fingersplints -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- DROP! Dropped her down to very slightly mafia read based on gut interpretation of her posts and her inability to fully substantiate reads, but I could be way off base. Having reevaluated, this is incredibly, incredibly slight.[/quote]

One of my main points on her was that I thought SHE was NO Uing BR, but it turns out that I was wrong and it was the other way around, so I thought I might be developing tunnel vision on her. I still need to ISO her and reevaluate her, but honestly, I'm trying to stay away from the thread (unsuccessfully at the moment) for a few hours today, because I need at least a few hours where I'm not doing something school-related or this game-related so I can fully relax (instead of relaxing by playing mafia, which I do almost all of the time, but it's stressful relaxing).

Hope that helps.

[Tangrowth]

Ah, quote fail.

[Tangrowth]

Anyway, if anyone has any other questions on my Elo beliefs, I can clear up any questions, but if you dig through my posts searching the word "Elo", you should find where I've expressed my opinion multiple times. It's getting to the point where I believe I'm posting TOO much and people are missing some of my posts and opinions, so they're asking me to reclarify, which is all cool, since I know I've posted a lot, but it may continue to not help the problem.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i hope sanmateo pays the thread a visit soon, because i want to know what he thinks of Elohcin's responses to my beefs -- even if she didn't respond directly to his own beefs.

[Tangrowth]

I also think she is consistently lying because if you look at her posts above that I quoted (as well as ISOing her) she keeps saying stuff that contradicts other things she said. She clearly DID suspect me, but then in a recent post that I quoted above tries to backtrack and say that she just thought Epi could be onto something, which she did say, but clearly she pushed the heat on me further than that, and even stated or implied multiple times throughout D1 that she was suspicious of me.

I just can't see why a civilian would lack so much transparency, then try to act as though no one was saying why they were suspicious, when clearly the reasons were being clearly (not vaguely) stated by me and others, then try to dismiss them, then FINALLY try to actually address them. It all feels so fabricated to me, all of it.

Linki w/ Jay: I agree, I am intrigued also to why he thinks I'm "definitely bad", as well as how he feels about other players.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Anyway, if anyone has any other questions on my Elo beliefs, I can clear up any questions, but if you dig through my posts searching the word "Elo", you should find where I've expressed my opinion multiple times. It's getting to the point where I believe I'm posting TOO much and people are missing some of my posts and opinions, so they're asking me to reclarify, which is all cool, since I know I've posted a lot, but it may continue to not help the problem.

i don't have any questions at all about your take on Elo. i don't think that could be clearer. but i do wonder about your perspective of the rest of the game at large. you've already voted Elo and spent the entirety of this Day 2 so far talking about why she is suspicious to you. that's prevented you from talking about anything else.

other suspects beyond just her? i know you've provided your rainbows already, but some of your suspects and town reads have since posted. what do you think of Bass's recent content?

your take on the low-volume posters (like Roxy, Black Rock, acrosstheaether, Dom/Vompatti, TinyBubbles)?

[Tangrowth]

Yes, thank you, Jay, I feel like I do need to focus elsewhere. Let me get on that and get back to you, since I need to re-read a bit. I'll update my Rainbows List simultaneously.

[Tangrowth]

When reading it, I actually felt good about Bass's new content from a vibes standpoint, but bad about the fact that he won't provide more reads and such. Does that make sense?

I do know he takes a while to develop reads, so overall maybe a bit better about him?

[Tangrowth]

Warning: I should probably take another break from the thread, and as I do some re-reads, it might take me a bit to update my list, so just in case you don't see me for a little while, that's why. I'll try to be as clear as possible with all of my reads on the updated Rainbow List, that way I don't have to keep posting.