Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[sanmateo]

well i just placed my vote for DDL

why?

[sanmateo]

where the coordinating at?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

where the coordinating at?

what do you mean?

[sanmateo]

I disagree about the notion that Elo's flip should be treated as a townie lynch though. Many people (including myself) would have been town, and read her behaviour as generally anti-town, rather than a mafia-tell in particular.

the point of treating it as a townie lynch is assuming that the mafia would behave in the same way towards a townie bandwagon than to a rogue bangwagon, but hey at least you went out of your way to say you are indeed town

[Vompatti]

tfw I may have forgotten to produce a gun last night.

[sanmateo]

where the coordinating at?

what do you mean?

you said last night something along the lines that you always tried to coordinate with other players before placing a vote

[JaggedJimmyJay]

where the coordinating at?

what do you mean?

you said last night something along the lines that you always tried to coordinate with other players before placing a vote

psst... check the tally

[JaggedJimmyJay]

acrosstheaether

I don't want to be replaced anymore. Now that the SK is out of the way, no need to speculate about alignments of NKs

glad you're back.

sorry that i have to be all accusatory now, but

I disagree about the notion that Elo's flip should be treated as a townie lynch though. Many people (including myself) would have been town, and read her behaviour as generally anti-town, rather than a mafia-tell in particular.

I have a distinct memory of an RYMer making the exact same point about a rogue lynch that i made there in a recent game.

It was you.

It wasn't an open setup, we didn't even know there was a rogue, and that rogue wasn't a serial killer, weren't they?

This is where open vs. closed setup mean a huge difference. As evident, quite a few people here were interested in serial killer hunting rather than mafiahunting. One less nightkill benefits town.

don't like this purple-highlighted post for two reasons.

1.) i already mentioned this, and she already responded (the second and third of her quoted posts above). i alluded to a post she made in a recent RYM game which is essentially the complete opposite of this. i've found it:

January 10, 2015
Keep in mind that t_h having been a rogue does not mean that scum would not have viewed him as town. Voters for a lynch which flipped rogue this early in the game should be viewed through the same lens as those for a lynch which flipped town.

https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... msg5634541

so i am a little skeptical that she genuinely holds this perspective even considering the way she qualified it in her explanation. i don't think those variables matter in this context.

2.) i don't like the distinction between reading Elohcin as "anti-town" and as "mafia" either. i don't think this is really how townies usually think. it's more natural to be concerned specifically with mafia roles and then happen upon a rogue flip by surprise (as the flavor of the thread suggested from many people after Elo's death). furthermore, there is no precedent in aether's posts suggesting she might suspect Elo at all. without any stated suspicion i don't know how she can claim it was either an "anti-town" or "mafia" read, or any kind of read. there's nothing there.

moreover, she was at first willing to leave the game but at the same time drop a vote on a confirmed rogue (likely town in the eyes of mafia) whom she had previously failed to acknowledge even once.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bass_the_Clever

2. Just so you know I really don't pull quotes. But my suspects so far are-
- Elo because she voted someone she felt good about and gave a lame excuse. She acted like she knew his game and unless she has played with him somewhere else golden just started playing on this site and has died early every game. So how would she know his game?

- TinyBubbles because I was her top suspect and she votes Elo. Why give up on your top suspect if there is a chance that person can get lynched? I understand she trust people who voted Elo but I think piggybacking because of "trust" is something that mafias do to get in good with people who are vocal and seem super civvie.

Bass voted for Elo late in the phase. i believe his vote was either the one that sealed Elo's demise (not accounting for butter and guns) or the one after that. the quote above shows that he did state suspicions of Elo at some point; when he was asked for his suspects he provided Elo and Bubbles. so this is a decent thing.

MP is there anyone that is new that you feel like could be mafia and do you think it's possible for a mafia member to be hiding behind a lot of post?

Ok I would also like to hear what everyone else is thinking about the super posters. lol. Does anyone else feel like there could be mafia lurking among them?

these two posts show a little tinfoiling on the high-volume posters (not intended as a criticism). i think this is understandable, and i like that he first asked MP for his perspective since he has a little more inside knowledge of DDL and the RYMers. i think it's natural for a townie to be worried about people with really high post counts, it's a type of suspicion i face in pretty much every game i play. this looks to me like Bass is trying to sort out a legitimate concern and reflects well on him.

I say shoot two or three names at a time.

i was glad a player i have read negatively most of the game took part in my experimental exercise, and i thought Bass looked good there. i am hesitant to award significant townie points because i'm still working out whether that game is useful at all. but in a rapid-fire scenario, he was able to produce reads quickly -- and he even stuck around to see it through when he had external things pulling him away from the computer. i dig.

i feel better about Bass than i have all game long, and that's despite his being an overlap suspect between Sloonei and Metalmarsh.

[sanmateo]

where the coordinating at?

what do you mean?

you said last night something along the lines that you always tried to coordinate with other players before placing a vote

psst... check the tally

you TRICKSTER

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i think sanmateo struggling to shake nagging concerns about me is usually a town-tell.

[sanmateo]

i'm struggling to shake em because you have done nothing that to prove you are town. at this point it's gonna take something else for me to vote you but given how supposedly unreadable your scum game i think it's silly to let you skate by

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i'm struggling to shake em because you have done nothing that to prove you are town. at this point it's gonna take something else for me to vote you but given how supposedly unreadable your scum game i think it's silly to let you skate by

i understand your concerns. i don't object to them. i don't think any player has done anything to prove they're town though. there're no confirmed dead scum. there's really not much i can do about that right now except continue to play my game.

[Tangrowth]

RIP Sloonei. I think you played an excellent game and I'm sad to see you go.

I apologize for my dip in activity (that likely will continue); it was inevitable for me to keep that pace up unless I had more time pretty much completely off, but I have to play catch up a bit. Haven't gotten to updating my rainbow reads yet, I'll see if I can get to it later. I may not have time until tomorrow sometime.

at the Vomps interactions over the last page.

Honestly, even though I feel like I should suspect DDL, he's still screaming genuine to me. I think it's best that we discuss all options for this lynch.

I think sanmateo's skepticism of Jay is healthy, but I would not feel comfortable lynching Jay anytime soon at all.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Honestly, even though I feel like I should suspect DDL, he's still screaming genuine to me.

agreed. if he is mafia, his strongest mafia skill is apparently self-defense.

[Tangrowth]

Jay, you realize you didn't actually vote for DDL, right?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, you realize you didn't actually vote for DDL, right?

shhhhh

eh he'll probably realize it by the time he gets down here anyway

[Tangrowth]

Oh, I didn't realize this was a ruse.

I was wondering why you voted so early, so I looked, and saw it wasn't there. :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

birdwithteeth11

I tend to wait as late as I possibly can to vote. When RL doesn't get in the way, sometimes it is 30 minutes or less before the poll ends. I like to wait as late as possible because I want as much information as I can get before I vote. Sometimes things happen towards the end of a lynch period that make me change my mind.

i would echo these sentiments. my vote ended up useless, so functionally i was no better in the tally than BTW11 was. i waited as long as i could because it was only bloody vote and i wanted to make the best use of it. eventually though the tally became a landslide and it didn't matter anymore. i think players of both alignments will generally be more interesting in holding their votes to ensure total control over their part in the result.

And it wasn't RL that made me miss the vote. It was me trying to catch up in the thread and losing track of time. I thought I had more time than I did, looked down, and noticed I had almost no time left to vote. So I panicked and went to try and vote, and it had already gone past the deadline.

this bit thought must be believed or not believed at face value. i do struggle to envision myself encountering this dilemma at least -- if i am active in a game near the end of the phase, then my eyes are frequently visiting the clock on the computer. losing track of time at a stage when time is critically important would be a pretty big flub. i can also ask myself though if there's anything a mafioso stands to gain from skipping a vote intentionally instead of just dropping it on someone ineffectively.

i'd like to echo a point made by sanmateo and Sloonei. DDL has put a lot of work into describing why he wouldn't play the way he has played as mafia. and in so doing, he has acknowledged the WIFOM nature of that mindset. this would make him a very self-aware mafioso.

but wait, what if he is very self-aware of the notion of being a self-aware mafioso? let's visit his comment directed at me:

If you are mafia, you are one of the most self-aware players I've ever seen.

this could be called an unintentional self-diagnosis.

Hmmmmmm....interesting. I'll go back and look at it myself.

this tweaked me a little bit. the point i made there against DDL was pretty specific, meaning the chances of it being grounded in reality were inherently not as high as some of the assertions i've made in this thread. what was interesting about it, BWT? have you looked back yet, and if so what did you find?

i threw my vote on Elo. every other option is mathematically impossible. and she's a red read. so cool beans.

Same point here. Why throwing a vote that has no chance of changing anything?

You did point right after that that you were aware of the possibility of mafia knowing the lynch was inevitable though, which is interesting. If you are mafia, you are one of the most self-aware players I've ever seen.

If someone votes for a player that has no chance of getting lynched in, say, one or two lynches in a game, that's different IMO from someone who constantly does it throughout the game. Once or twice (or more if it's the same person over and over) I'm okay with because I generally interpret it as a civ thing to be going after the player you are most suspicious of. If one person gives it enough attention over time, it can cause other people to go and examine exactly what the original poster is seeing with a certain player.

Now if you're voting for people who have no chance of being lynched, and constantly throw your vote around on different players, then I view that as more absolving yourself of a lynch. Which looks more like a baddie act.

So I don't think "throwing a vote that has no chance of changing anything" is an exercise in futility. It can pay off down the road sometimes.

i'm not exactly sure what point BWT11 is making here, so i am just hoping he can clarify? it sounds like he is lending me a little support for my late Elohcin vote, but the reason for his support doesn't make sense as i understand it. it seems he is suggesting i was piling on Elohcin because it'd get more attention on her later in the game from other players seeking to understand my case against her. but she was about to be lynched and thus die, so that is a strange concept. can you reword this somehow?

i was gut-leaning town on this guy earlier in the game, but i have less conviction for that now.

[Tangrowth]

LOL the hosts are on the poll! Were they before? I don't think so.

[thellama73]

LOL the hosts are on the poll! Were they before? I don't think so.

Don't vote for me. I have modkills and I'm not afraid to use them.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Black Rock

I'm just popping in to say that I went down sick yesterday and have been in bed all day. I'm likely going back to bed. I can't possibly read this thread right now. I've got some sort of bad stomach virus.

nothing you can do about that. it happens to townies and mafia alike. i was reading her scum before and that'll have to stand for now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dragon D. Luffy

i'm going to wait on this one. he figures to be involved a lot this phase.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

fingersplints

How long will this activity be? It's already 11 here

How many people missed the vote?
I also think that her team would be more likely to have distanced from her since she was so obviously going down.

narroweyes. you've been paying pretty close attention to the game so far, and Elohcin's lynch flip clearly stated her character (thus her alignment). i'm a bit skeptical about this comment, especially since many of the immediately preceding posts celebrating her demise referred to her as a rogue, or distinctly as "not mafia". this looks like an intentional ploy to sell the idea that you're not on a "team", since you'd know better if you were.

I meant I was interested in your responses to Roxys questions.

Did you feel like I answered them adequately then?

I still have some baddie vibes from you, but it isn't something I can pinpoint. "Vibes" isn't a great suspicion, and not something I plan on voting based off of anytime soon. I only mentioned it because I thought Rox raised some good points, and I have been feeling alright about her this game.

I'm so behind in the the activity. been typing these responses first

splints admits it herself, but i am not a fan of "vibes" either. especially since she asked for something specific from BWT, got what she asked for, and still left him in an unwinnable position like this. vague vibes cannot be defended against, they just exist.

You guys really think that both me and BR are bad?

is there a reason we shouldn't? because you've hounded her all game long while she's been in no real danger of being lynched? i don't like this comment either.

Unless the mafia kills nightly now.

This post:

I'm thinking, is there anyone in particular who was most adamantly pushing for Elo's lynch? Perhaps that person is Adam Smith.

Why are you trying to draw attention to who might have a specific civvie role?

So we no longer need to suspect that person?

So the mafia can know who has what civvie role and who to kill next?

i should address this because i recently got done casing aether as suspicious. so that means i'd have to perceive these two as bussing if they're both suspicious simultaneously, or i'd have to concede one of them. in this case i think it's plausible they're bussing, because it's a pretty light accusation that can easily be refuted imo. and aether entered Day 3 as a high-probability lynch target, so it makes sense to distance.

i'm more suspicious of splints than i was before i started typing this post.

[thellama73]

LOL the hosts are on the poll! Were they before? I don't think so.

Don't vote for me. I have modkills and I'm not afraid to use them.

Also, I think Russ is bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

LOL the hosts are on the poll! Were they before? I don't think so.

Don't vote for me. I have modkills and I'm not afraid to use them.

Also, I think Russ is bad.

his ISO is coming soon

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Wow, did not expect this. After aether's obvious giveaway, I was expecting mafia to hunt for Adam Smith.

I suppose they are hunting the players that are being perceived as strong townies, then. Since I was the only player who ever suspected Sloonei, and only elaborated on that near the end of the night. Metalmarsh also looked like a strong townie for most.

RIP Sloonei, sorry for doubting you.

well i just placed my vote for DDL

One question: are you making this read just because of my wrong read on Sloonei, or because you want to trust his read since he's now confirmed town, or had you made your mind before Sloonei's death?

I'll type out my thoughts when I get home tonight. I'd like to hear where DDL thinks we should be looking today. Let's consider all angles.

Well my first suspect is aether. I don't think I need to stress that anymore. She looks more like a baddie every time she clicks the submit button.

I personally suspect birdwithteeth for his sketchy phase end, but I've noticed not many people do. I'd like to read more into his posts later and try to get further into this.

Bass is one a lot of people have been wanting to lynch. Personally, I feel good about him and think his defenses in day 2 have looked legit. But I support more discussion on him: if town suspects him so heavily, you should push him and see if he slips. I'll only vote him myself if something new happens that makes him look more lile scum to me, though.

Honestly, even though I feel like I should suspect DDL, he's still screaming genuine to me.

agreed. if he is mafia, his strongest mafia skill is apparently self-defense.

I've been told my strongest mafia skill is ability usage, actually. I once got ~10 people killed in the night just by combining abilities.

[Vompatti]

The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) is an international standard-setting body composed of representatives from various national standards organizations. For other uses, see ISO (disambiguation).

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Jay, you realize you didn't actually vote for DDL, right?

shhhhh

eh he'll probably realize it by the time he gets down here anyway

Don't underestimate me. I realized it right away.

[Bubbles]

Right I'm not convinced that Bass is innocent at this point, so he's getting my vote. and RIP dear Sloonei!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's two hasty votes, Bubbles. What don't you like anout Bass?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

G-Man

i'm just going to take a stance on this one. he's a town read until further notice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MovingPictures07

before i start, i have a general question for any Syndicateers except MP to answer. based on your experience playing with him, how unusual would it be for him to put up this much content (430 posts, many of which are quite large) as a mafia player? i don't ask because i think it's impossible, i ask because y'all would know better than i. what i do know is that it's inherently harder to play mafia the way he is playing this game than many other playstyles would be. my mafia game is much like my town game though with an arseload of posts, so yanno. just tell me what you think of that specific point please.

Elo's responses don't bode well for her.

I just can't see any reason to wait. This said, I still will discuss suspects.

Votes Elo

MP voted for Elo very early, which struck me as a strange maneuver. i don't know that i'd have associated this kind of quick trigger strategy with MP, who i've noted to be a pretty careful player in our games together so far. but it happened, and there's no doubt that MP had a ton of material in his post history suggesting suspicion of Elohcin. if he's mafia, then he did a helluva job fabricating an incredible amount of content against her. even if the content isn't perceived to be especially strong (by any observer), the sheer quantity is impressive and i think bodes well for him. that amount of focused effort would seem to be unnecessary for a mafioso.

Thanks for elaborating, Jay!

I'm concerned about the suspicions surrounding Bass. I know I've suspected him, and that I frankly still do, but I'm puzzled. After what happened D1, I don't understand how Bass is more sketchy than Elo. I hate to sound like a broken record, but can someone help me out here? I'm trying to be open minded but I cannot fathom any scenario in which a civilian would so blatantly fabricate and fail to explain suspicions and posts as Elo seems to have done.

Thanks for the laugh, TinyBubbles. That was great.

as this post illustrates, he didn't only specifically target Elohcin, but he discouraged the lynch of someone else who entered the day as a somewhat likely target (Bass). he was constant and adamant about Elohcin, and didn't begin to show any signs of doubt at all until TH and i were discussing possible town mindsets in Elo's behavior. MP's aggression on this matter was so pointed that i was concerned he might be tunneling (more as a faulty town approach than a deliberate mafia tactic). now that Elo has flipped rogue and not mafia, that concern in a way still stands. it's still possible that MP was employing a hard-line aggressive strategy both to get Elo lynched and to fit his own meta profile. so on that front i again ask the other Syndicateers: would you associate this kind of brutal, focused tunneling more with town MP or mafia MP? for me, without meta, it looks more town.

When reading it, I actually felt good about Bass's new content from a vibes standpoint, but bad about the fact that he won't provide more reads and such. Does that make sense?

I do know he takes a while to develop reads, so overall maybe a bit better about him?

when i pressed MP to talk about something else, this was one of a few posts he provided. i like that he seems to be leaving some room at least for his suspects to look better (Elo aside). i've found over the years that it's generally a little harder to break a mafioso away from his/her fake suspicion than it is to break a townie away from genuine suspicion. but that also varies by player meta.

YES. DO IT.

his first response when i initially raised the idea to perform my gun-to-head reads exercise. i like his enthusiasm, since he knew what i was referring to and what challenges/insights might be associated with it. he wanted very much to participate, and to see other players participate. i dig that.

And I have one question for Sloonei:

I noted your rainbow list and that you have Jay and I high on the list because we see eye to eye. However, I want to ask: Does agreeing with someone's points or their approach to the game make them more likely civilian? If not, then can you explain why you specifically noted that as significant to your reads?

good example of a player being read as town by someone else and not simply running with it. it's good to be wary of buddying, and this exemplifies that MP07 was at least conscious of that even if he didn't suspect Sloonei outright. it's good to cover one's bases, because no townie is ever correct about absolutely everything.

etc, etc... i still read MP as a lot more town than not. if anyone disagrees, i've left a few avenues in this post for you to express that. and if it's something unrelated to any of these points, express it anyway.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Right I'm not convinced that Bass is innocent at this point, so he's getting my vote. and RIP dear Sloonei!

Can you please give your reasons why you think im bad.

[Black Rock]

I haven't dropped off the planet I am trying to catch up. I hate catching up on so much volume, it buggers me up. I see Splints still suspects me as well as a few others.

Thanks, sanmateo. I look forward to hearing your answers to other questions and what you think of others as well.

Sloonei, so I am looking through splints's posts again because I'm revisiting my suspicion of her, and I'm uncovering again that she's been issuing a lot of wishywashy statements and I did find it notable that she couldn't even name a top suspect when I asked her yesterday (but then went on to say she still really suspects BR). I'd like to amend my post to say that she might be my 3rd suspect (pushing her back up again), but I'm not certain just yet.

I think you should reconsider who you call wishy washy when you have been drastically up and down in your suspicions. You are pressuring me to name more suspicions. I have and if that isn't good enough for you so be it.

I suspect BR for the defense of MP. A bunch of you didn't suspect it because you trust MP and all suspect Elo, but I understood what she was saying about MP. She wasn't calling him "mean", and I felt she was trying to be tactful about it, but he exploded at Epi and played the victim. (His word choice. Not mine) I feel like BR jumped on that and defended MP. I have been wishy washy about MP because as I said I'm not going to waste a shit ton of time debating how I feel about a player when my read on them is pretty dependant on someone else.

I'm voting BR now.

I don't think you should consider wishywashy as an insult; it certainly isn't. I am pressuring you because that's part of the game, is it not? I'm unclear as to where you're at, so I've been asking for clarification.

I don't see where everyone is saying they trust me; I've arguably had more heat on me than anyone else. As usual, I'll likely get lynched at some point.

So, to be clear, my alignment is dependent on BR as follows: If she flips mafia, I'm mafia, and vice versa? Or something else?

BR and pretty much all the new guys have mentioned trust in you to a degree. And I would definitely argue you having the most heat. Mostly only Epi was after you

No. Your alignment does not depend on her alignment. Your alignment depends on that role PM the hosts sent on you. But as with every other game, gaining information allows us to form opinions on others. I've discussed everything. I feel like everyone is stuck on these reads and we cant move on til we have more information.

Now I have to check my own posts, I don't remember saying I trust MP. I think you are trying to make a mountain out of nothing with me. You are taking my words and stringing them into something to try and paint me as bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Roxy

i had a lengthy exchange with her in the previous day phase. she defended herself fiercely which i like, though i am hesitant to give too much credit for emotional conveyance in this environment where i don't know any personalities yet. i'll examine some of her other material.

I could think of 2 reasons TinyBubbles might drop a vote so early on your main suspect:

1) Possibly he's buddying up to you, and wants you to think he's a civ by comparison.

2) If Elo is lynched and flips civ, he could use it as a way to put responsibility on you. I.e. "I only voted Elo because I agreed with JJJ" or something along those lines.

I can think of 2 also:
1) Possibly following those he/she trusts with her/his vote. When I was playing my first few games I often did the same.
2) Is unsure of trusting her/his own instinct and feels better to trust someone else's.

Teeth it seems you are looking for any reason to suspect Bubbles. Can you not think of a new noob reason? Why you would assume to label her vote as a baddie ploy?

It makes me want to eye you more closely if anything.

i like this post. BWT11's post seemed a little manipulative in that it attributed two mafia-only strategies to explaining Bubbles's early Day 2 vote. there were a couple of clearly evident town mindsets to be explored too that he didn't address, and Roxy called him out on that. this strikes me as a player with a nose for b/s seeing something that looks like it and bringing it up.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 64#p144964

Roxy provided a bunch of reads in this post. i love posts like this, what a feast of content.

the effort is delightful, but i have to note that there aren't many stances being taken here beyond town reads. the most negative commentary is about Elohcin, and that's largely in the form of lending support to MP's case. there's some vague suspicion asserted about BWT, BR, and DDL. Roxy hasn't left herself many avenues to be incorrect in that regard, which could be a bad sign. the numerous town reads are nice though.

the only negative point i've raised here stems from a post that i generally like (the reads list), so i won't make a huge issue out of it. i feel a little better about her than i did before. when i get to my next rainbow, she might still be an orange or so, but it'll be process of elimination more than anything.

[Turnip Head]

MovingPictures07

before i start, i have a general question for any Syndicateers except MP to answer. based on your experience playing with him, how unusual would it be for him to put up this much content (430 posts, many of which are quite large) as a mafia player?

Not. Unusual. At. All.

as this post illustrates, he didn't only specifically target Elohcin, but he discouraged the lynch of someone else who entered the day as a somewhat likely target (Bass). he was constant and adamant about Elohcin, and didn't begin to show any signs of doubt at all until TH and i were discussing possible town mindsets in Elo's behavior. MP's aggression on this matter was so pointed that i was concerned he might be tunneling (more as a faulty town approach than a deliberate mafia tactic). now that Elo has flipped rogue and not mafia, that concern in a way still stands. it's still possible that MP was employing a hard-line aggressive strategy both to get Elo lynched and to fit his own meta profile. so on that front i again ask the other Syndicateers: would you associate this kind of brutal, focused tunneling more with town MP or mafia MP? for me, without meta, it looks more town.

Looks like his town meta to me. Baddie-MP isn't afraid to jump all over the freakin place. Although that behavior has gotten him lynched several times as a baddie (I'm sure it's gotten him lynched as a civvie too, tbh).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i'll address the other four tomorrow. temporary rainbow:

stronger town lean
MovingPictures07
sanmateo

town lean
G-Man
Bass_the_Clever

not a fan of lynching
TinyBubbles
Turnip Head

maybe lynchable
Roxy
Dragon D. Luffy

mafia lean
birdwithteeth11
Black Rock

stronger mafia lean
fingersplints
acrosstheaether

[Turnip Head]

Black Rock is a really hard read. She has not contributed much, but it could be related to RL busyness. It could also be related to RL busyness AND being bad. She's missed both votes, FWIW.

And I do not discount the idea that splintsy and BR could be bad together, but I'm more inclined to look BR's way first, since I think splints might be onto something with her post about MP.

Now I have to check my own posts, I don't remember saying I trust MP.

It shouldn't take you too long :P And you didn't say that. I'm looking carefully at what you did say though and wondering if you had an ulterior motive for responding the way you did to Elo in the post in question.

[Turnip Head]

Seems relevant to the hosts being on today's poll:

Taxes - occur every 3rd day. Because llama is a co-host, it is flat and each player pays $1. Taxes are eliminated if Ricardo dies and Rothbard is still alive. If llama dies and Russti is still alive, we move to a proportional tax system and tax 30% of all earnings instead.

[Turnip Head]

I think we should talk about this. Who would rather be taxed $1 every 3 Days? Who would rather be taxed 30% of all earnings?

[fingersplints]

I haven't dropped off the planet I am trying to catch up. I hate catching up on so much volume, it buggers me up. I see Splints still suspects me as well as a few others.

Thanks, sanmateo. I look forward to hearing your answers to other questions and what you think of others as well.

Sloonei, so I am looking through splints's posts again because I'm revisiting my suspicion of her, and I'm uncovering again that she's been issuing a lot of wishywashy statements and I did find it notable that she couldn't even name a top suspect when I asked her yesterday (but then went on to say she still really suspects BR). I'd like to amend my post to say that she might be my 3rd suspect (pushing her back up again), but I'm not certain just yet.

I think you should reconsider who you call wishy washy when you have been drastically up and down in your suspicions. You are pressuring me to name more suspicions. I have and if that isn't good enough for you so be it.

I suspect BR for the defense of MP. A bunch of you didn't suspect it because you trust MP and all suspect Elo, but I understood what she was saying about MP. She wasn't calling him "mean", and I felt she was trying to be tactful about it, but he exploded at Epi and played the victim. (His word choice. Not mine) I feel like BR jumped on that and defended MP. I have been wishy washy about MP because as I said I'm not going to waste a shit ton of time debating how I feel about a player when my read on them is pretty dependant on someone else.

I'm voting BR now.

I don't think you should consider wishywashy as an insult; it certainly isn't. I am pressuring you because that's part of the game, is it not? I'm unclear as to where you're at, so I've been asking for clarification.

I don't see where everyone is saying they trust me; I've arguably had more heat on me than anyone else. As usual, I'll likely get lynched at some point.

So, to be clear, my alignment is dependent on BR as follows: If she flips mafia, I'm mafia, and vice versa? Or something else?

BR and pretty much all the new guys have mentioned trust in you to a degree. And I would definitely argue you having the most heat. Mostly only Epi was after you

No. Your alignment does not depend on her alignment. Your alignment depends on that role PM the hosts sent on you. But as with every other game, gaining information allows us to form opinions on others. I've discussed everything. I feel like everyone is stuck on these reads and we cant move on til we have more information.

Now I have to check my own posts, I don't remember saying I trust MP. I think you are trying to make a mountain out of nothing with me. You are taking my words and stringing them into something to try and paint me as bad.

You didn't say specifically "I trust MP"
I still think you defended him, which would mean you think he is good. Do you not have any trust in someone you think is good enough to defend them? I think you are nitpicking at my word choice and trying to defend by saying you didn't say that word when it's clear you expressed a similar sentiment although not that specific word

I'll respond to the points in the latest ISO about me later. I'll try and respond to the latest massive post about me later since I'm on my phone but if there are any specific posts people want from me now they will have to reiterate them in post that won't take me forever to pick apart on my phone

[fingersplints]

I said the same thing two different ways in a sentence and didn't notice. I need coffee and to wake up more before I address anything apparently

[acrosstheaether]

Tbh Sloonei's death makes me feel better about DDL.

[Bubbles]

That's two hasty votes, Bubbles. What don't you like anout Bass?

Hi, yeah sorry about the hastiness, as I said before I'm trying to not miss the vote due to RL

Anyway voted Bass because of what I said before and also because Sloonei suspected he was a baddie, and I trusted sloonei was a good guy and he was.. so his opinions are valid IMO. Also Im a little surprised about how people like JJJ and DDL feel Bass is Legit now, I'm not saying they are mafia, but I don't see what's so different about Bass that he is in the clear now. he did vote Golden. and also he voted pretty late for Elo which was suspicious, Elo was already going down at that point, his vote wouldn't have made a difference but it would earn him town cred.

[fingersplints]

There actually isn't much I can address in here since its all a bunch of WIFOMY situations. You don't know how I play, but a lot of these points that you make little sense from anyone's standpoint who knows me. My response's are in whateve color this is since I can't see what it is.

fingersplints

How long will this activity be? It's already 11 here

How many people missed the vote?
I also think that her team would be more likely to have distanced from her since she was so obviously going down.

narroweyes. you've been paying pretty close attention to the game so far, and Elohcin's lynch flip clearly stated her character (thus her alignment). i'm a bit skeptical about this comment, especially since many of the immediately preceding posts celebrating her demise referred to her as a rogue, or distinctly as "not mafia". this looks like an intentional ploy to sell the idea that you're not on a "team", since you'd know better if you were.

I'm not sure why this post starts off with "narroweyes".
Elo's lynch stated her character but not clearly her alignment. The first few posts after the lynch were "Holy shit did NOT expect that at ALL! ", "HOLY SHIT YES. ", and "WOOHOO" I saw the first few, posted, and then went to catch up on the rest. So the posts immediately preceding it did not refer to her as a rogue. Perhaps if you were more interested in hearing others responses to your posts rather then only wanting the person they are addressed to to respond you would have learned that its pretty standard for me not to read all the roles right away. This is the WIFOMy bit. I've since read the roles as to not make another mistake like that, but I wasn't pretending to have not read the mafia roles. I didn't because they weren't my role. (or the one I had before - both civvies) If I were bad, or had been bad before, I would have read the mafia roles before then.

I meant I was interested in your responses to Roxys questions.

Did you feel like I answered them adequately then?

I still have some baddie vibes from you, but it isn't something I can pinpoint. "Vibes" isn't a great suspicion, and not something I plan on voting based off of anytime soon. I only mentioned it because I thought Rox raised some good points, and I have been feeling alright about her this game.

I'm so behind in the the activity. been typing these responses first

splints admits it herself, but i am not a fan of "vibes" either. especially since she asked for something specific from BWT, got what she asked for, and still left him in an unwinnable position like this. vague vibes cannot be defended against, they just exist.

I didn't actually ask anything specific of bwt. Roxy did. What about what I did is different from what everyone else does in mafia? Rox asked bwt a question, he responded, it didn't change my opinion on him. I don't think "vibes" are unfair on Day 2, but I wasn't even voting for him based off that which I made clear.

You guys really think that both me and BR are bad?

is there a reason we shouldn't? because you've hounded her all game long while she's been in no real danger of being lynched? i don't like this comment either.

Yes. Since I am getting attention for the "hounding" why the fuck would I keep on it? Maybe, just maybe it's because I actually think she's bad. Since your accusation earlier (sorry if I am wrong and this isn't you) was that the lower posters were blendy and more likely bad, doesn't this mean that I don't exactly fit the "blendy" bit? It would have been a lot easier to vote with the majorities especially since others lynched a civvie and are getting 0 suspicion from it.
Perhaps you should listen to the people who know me better that it's less likely.

Unless the mafia kills nightly now.

This post:

I'm thinking, is there anyone in particular who was most adamantly pushing for Elo's lynch? Perhaps that person is Adam Smith.

Why are you trying to draw attention to who might have a specific civvie role?

So we no longer need to suspect that person?

So the mafia can know who has what civvie role and who to kill next?

i should address this because i recently got done casing aether as suspicious. so that means i'd have to perceive these two as bussing if they're both suspicious simultaneously, or i'd have to concede one of them. in this case i think it's plausible they're bussing, because it's a pretty light accusation that can easily be refuted imo. and aether entered Day 3 as a high-probability lynch target, so it makes sense to distance.

Basically I'm distancing from more teammates. I'd have to be the worlds worst mafia player to pretty much only suspect my teammates. So.. yea.
What would make most sense actually, is for you to reconsider your read on me. You seem pretty stuck that I am bad and now are just posting anything to try and make it fit your read on me.

i'm more suspicious of splints than i was before i started typing this post.

I'm actually going to vote aether now, since she didn't even respond to my post about how she didn't repsond to my other post. My accusation of her isn't light, it's that she has mostly refused to engage with me so I can't build anything on it.

[Bubbles]

"People like JJJ" and I was replying to your quote JJJ. Ugh, sorry about that, I'm an idiot.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Still waiting for a response to my question, JJJ.

I think we should talk about this. Who would rather be taxed $1 every 3 Days? Who would rather be taxed 30% of all earnings?

I'm pretty sure thay said if we kill the hosts, one of us replaces them.

Tbh Sloonei's death makes me feel better about DDL.

Did you ever feel bad about me before? I don't remember you saying that.

Actually, did you ever feel anything about anyone in this game? Do you have any suspects?

And what do you feel about the fact me and the others are suspecting you? Do you have anything you'd like to say?

Please talk more.

[Roxy]

Started reading but not caught up - I am leaving work early today bc I need some time away from work.

I will catch up and give thoughts then.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

DDL, addressing your question:

The read i gave of you was expressed by a fake vote, so it really doesn't constitute a read. Sloonei's suspicion of you isn't a huge factor in your slip down the rainbow. You are a conflict for me between gut and reason. My analyses continue to paint you positively, but your excessively self-aware commentary rubs me as mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Most of fingersplints replies to my suspicion hinge on me not knowing her meta. So i ask other Syndicate regulars to review the points she made to me. Do you agree with her about how typical her behavior is of her?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My most likely vote as of now is aether.