Dune [ENDGAME]

[a2thezebra]

Zebra when and where have you had a scum read on me? I can't find anything on that subject. This is the first I've heard of it I think?

This is the first I've mentioned it as Zebra 2.0. But if you really can't find anything from my posts as Zebra 1.0 (also known as a confirmed civvie) suggesting that your behavior was scum-motivated, then it re-affirms my suspicion that it was not that you were failing to read my posts, but instead that you were acting as if you were on purpose to influence my mislynch along with Golden, and it worked. You thought it was "civ vs. civ" right up until Golden suggested that those saying it was a "civ vs. civ" conflict were suspicious, after all.

[Elohcin]

I don't know, straight up, whether they have kills or not.

What I do know is, I expected that Harkonnen would have the kill both nights, but it seemed to be less of a sure thing to you. That suggests to me that you have a different win condition to me. Not necessarily an anti-town one, just a different one.

@Eloh - feel free to talk about it. What do you think is the most likely explanation?

Please go back and read the posts I have made so far today. Then let's talk please.

I think you're right. I think Matt is from another faction that has kills that have failed.

Do you think the faction Matt is with has BTSC then?

[Golden]

Host - what is the correct interplay/interpretation between these two rules?

The Rules

3. No role outing of yourself or anyone else.

14. This is a closed setup. Any claims a player posts in the thread will not be confirmed or contradicted by the host.

I assume this means, for instance, I could not claim to be "Gurney Halleck" (using that because we know its zebra 1.0) but I might be able to claim other things such as my ability or win con?

@Matt F -

1) I don't even know if sig was the intended target, so I don't read anything into it.
2) I really think you need to read my posts better since you keep saying stuff I am not saying. I am not claiming it is not possible other factions have kills, nor am I claiming you did anything you didn't fully intend to do. I'm claiming only one thing - you do not have the same win con as me, since I would not feel the need to 'wait and see' if Harkonnen were killing tonight. I already felt sure they would have a kill every night. Any other kill that may be out there I would expect to be additional, but also not necessarily anti-town.

[Golden]

@Eloh - I've read all your posts very carefully.

[a2thezebra]

Say Golden, have you read your win condition?

Yes.

Are you surprised to see Harkonnen have a kill every night?

Not really. I would be more surprised to find that any of the other factions were killing as well (except maybe The Smuggler), but I wouldn't be pinged by anyone who felt otherwise.

[MacDougall]

Zebra when and where have you had a scum read on me? I can't find anything on that subject. This is the first I've heard of it I think?

This is the first I've mentioned it as Zebra 2.0. But if you really can't find anything from my posts as Zebra 1.0 (also known as a confirmed civvie) suggesting that your behavior was scum-motivated, then it re-affirms my suspicion that it was not that you were failing to read my posts, but instead that you were acting as if you were on purpose to influence my mislynch along with Golden, and it worked. You thought it was "civ vs. civ" right up until Golden suggested that those saying it was a "civ vs. civ" conflict were suspicious, after all.

Nope, you didn't call me scum at all. Show me the posts. You have never said you had a scum read and you barely even insinuated that my motivation could be scum led. This is the first you've mentioned it. Ergo it doesn't re-affirm anything because this is the first affirmation.

You are way better a player as town than to be caught up in the idea you just put forth. That's far-fetched as hell. Do you genuinely think scum would just outwardly ally together on day 1 to get a random civ lynched?

So why did you just infer that you've maintained an obvious scum read on me and why have you been interacting with me without so much as anything to indicate I am a scum read, and if you have a scum read of me, what do you make of my interactions with Elohcin who you have a huge scum read on?

[Matt]

Where's Sorsha? Hey Sorsha, since for some inexplicable reason the Harkonnen didn't kill you, here are a couple of quotes for you...

I am civ. I don't have btsc. I am town aligned. I root for the townies. Townies are my best friend.

Take any or all of those and report back so Golden and Mac can get off my back, please.

[Golden]

Say Golden, have you read your win condition?

Yes.

Are you surprised to see Harkonnen have a kill every night?

Not really. I would be more surprised to find that any of the other factions were killing as well (except maybe The Smuggler), but I wouldn't be pinged by anyone who felt otherwise.

OK. Except I want to be clear that none of your last sentence applies to anything I am saying about Matt. I do not currently think he is Harkonnen, and what I am specifically pinged by is that he seemed to not know whether Harkonnen would have the kill (backed up by the fact he already intended to post that whenever the second Harkonnen kill occurred.

I would not vote for Matt today (even if I hadn't voted for sig).

I'm just trying to figure out what is going on in his head.

[Golden]

Oh FFS matt, don't be so melodramatic, stop being defensive, take your jaded glasses off, read my posts and take them for what they are. Your uber-defensiveness is entirely unhelpful to me figuring you out.

[Sorsha]

Sorsha - Why do you suppose Harkonnen spared you?

I'm assuming there is a protector role in this game since there's one in every game. So I'm guessing they thought that I'd be an obvious candidate for the protector last night so they chose someone else.

[a2thezebra]

Dear fellow civilians, I apologize for what I am about to do. However, I would put the majority of the responsibility for the following atrocity on Mac, for failing to find these posts on his own.

Here goes.

Another thing...

Golden I have closely reviewed your case.

Since closely reviewing Golden's case seemed to have changed your mind, (if that is what changed your mind...I had the same thought as FZ that having the "civ vs. civ" people be called out may have influenced your opinion a bit) I would appreciate if you closely reviewed my case, especially since it seems like a lot of your more recent conclusions seemed to have originated from Golden's constant misrepresenting of what my actual points against him were.

Maybe then all of a sudden Golden will seem like the potential bad guy to you, who knows.

Another thing.

When IM scum, I'm never a hurricane of self-assurance.

I am not you.

This is not making you look any better lmao.

"When I'm scum, I'm never whatever I'm doing at the moment" is never a good-looking statement.

I'm very ok with how good-looking that statement is. I know you won't be convincing anyone who knows me well. My meta is what it is.

Pointing out that you are actively copying your meta is not a valid defence.

While initially I responded well to this post of yours, in hindsight of how easily you changed your mind after taking a closer look at what Golden had to say, but not moi, it strikes me as a bit strange given that it's basically echoing what I said before here:

I see you're aware of your meta. When I'm scum, I never attempt to use my meta to my advantage.

And again here:

When IM scum, I'm never a hurricane of self-assurance.

I am not you.

This is not making you look any better lmao.

"When I'm scum, I'm never whatever I'm doing at the moment" is never a good-looking statement.

To which you immediately responded with:

Yak yak yak

I'm not sure if I should feel more confident about being blatantly ignored/dismissed by a town or the likelihood of you being scum trying to get others to ignore me. So, since you wanted me to ask you earlier, are you bad, Mac?

So you are basing your aggressive rebuttal on the idea that Golden's initial posts around the policy lynch were not genuine.

The fact that after so much time and so many back-and-forth posts between me and Golden you just now realized that was the issue I had, is really, really disheartening.

Of course that's possible but his posts on the matter and all subsequent read logical and sensible. Your posts are hard to follow. Your thought lines are more difficult to comprehend to me.

I admit my initial response to Golden wasn't as well-composed as the standard I try to hold myself to, but that's because I really was blown away by how poor the logic of it was. That initial response went through a couple of drafts before being published, and I still don't think I got across what I was trying to say regarding how Golden's ping of me was hypocritical.

What is the allusion you are drawing between Elohcin echoing and this situtation? You have lost me here.

There was no allusion/comparison. I was just saying that I didn't understand it. I still don't. To me, anyone who took the time to read (not skim) both sides of the debate between Golden and I, I am the clear victor. And no, not because I am me. I lose arguments all the time, this is not my ego talking. Golden's arguments may be easier to follow for you but, and you can see this for yourself if you would please actually take the time to go back and read my posts, just about every point he had to make was either only possible because it was a misrepresentation of what I had to say or, as with the original ping of his, pure hypocrisy. And if you don't see how it's hypocritical then please read my damn posts in the debate. My initial response covers that.

I thoughy I framed my read of the play quite simply and you can't understand it? Can't or won't?

Because I feel like your read along with Eloh's and everyone that has taken Golden's side simply has not read any of my responses, and has read his. Again, as I pointed out before, your mind changed by taking a closer look at Golden's case but you didn't take a closer look at mine. I don't want to think that's the case for everyone who is voting for me, but I really don't see any other possibility.

The fact is your initial post did not ping me. What has pinged me is your maintaining that it is a case against Golden when I feel a civ would not be pinged by him in this situation.

How?

I have read the interractions. Your case is based on the idea that Golden was trying to set me up with a couple of soft posts and backed down when he couldn't put enough content into it. I think the very thing you are saying makes him look scum makes him look ok.

Then feel free to remain unconvinced. If you think disingenuous opportunism is "ok" then you take away my will to persuade you otherwise.

Did you really mentiom Golden in your initial post on the subject?

This question seems to conflict with this statement right before it:

I have read the interractions.

And then, surprise:

Okay Zebs I can see that you did.

This hurts, Mac.

Look I am struggling to comprehend your reaction because it reads like a rage out wall of text. Could you please try explaining your case for us plebs in simpler terms?

I don't like re-stating a big case with a lot of points when it's already in my post history for everyone to read. I'm willing to do it, but could you clarify if you just want me to put in simpler terms my initial problems with Golden or would you also like me to demonstrate how every one of his arguments against me can only exist by misrepresenting what I had to say? Because I can do both, but I would rather not if it's not going to change anything.

linki - Could you elaborate on that Turnip Head vote?

I'd like to be able to respond to all other inquiries before the poll is over. Host, could I get an exact time on that?

It's at the top of the poll. We have about an hour and twenty minutes left.

Thanks! I need to go ahead and vote because I think I'm going to have spend the majority of the rest of that time re-explaining to everyone what I've already said fairly clearly. Fun fun fun. I can't seem to separate sig from his meta so my vote isn't going there, ping or no ping it's just too easy. Eloh, on the other hand, blatantly hopped on a potential my bandwagon with nothing new to add as others have pointed out. Mac, Golden, and Metalmarsh are also not looking fantastic, but in my opinion the behavior that we've seen so far that is the least likely to have town motivation backing it up, is Eloh. So Elohcin it is.

3. I don't see any of this. What do you mean by misrepresented you? What did he do that was hypocritical? I want to help the civ in you survive but you aren't making sense.

You not already having at least an inkling of an answer to these questions proves to me that you simply have not read any of what I had to say. If you are civ Mac, then I am hurt. So hurt. I am in the process of restating my case against Golden but I see you would rather vote for me before I have time to publish it. Excellent scumhunting, folks.

3. I don't see any of this. What do you mean by misrepresented you? What did he do that was hypocritical? I want to help the civ in you survive but you aren't making sense.

You not already having at least an inkling of an answer to these questions proves to me that you simply have not read any of what I had to say. If you are civ Mac, then I am hurt. So hurt. I am in the process of restating my case against Golden but I see you would rather vote for me before I have time to publish it. Excellent scumhunting, folks.

No it proves that you have failed to convey what you claim you intended to.

It proves that you refuse to read my arguments. Claiming that you don't understand my lines of thought is a complete cop-out, and I don't buy it.

[a2thezebra]

In each of those posts I presented two possibilities: Either Mac simply wasn't giving my posts the time of day, or he was ignoring most of the information on purpose to advocate my lynch. Since he has proved to me that he is not doing the former by magically forgetting that I ever suspected him at all, it has suggested to me that it is in fact the latter.

[Sorsha]

Poor Sig. Sorry this is happening to you bud.

linki....Niju is off the poll today? Who else has been off the poll so far? I am interested in who has this role and the redirection role. Suspicious things are among us and I don't like it.

Do you think you were redirected last night?

[Matt]

Whattya mean melodramatic? Figured that'd be the best way to get you to back off. I have no other recourse. I've explained why I've said what I said and I don't think you're believing me, so it is what it is.

[MacDougall]

Yeah you just quoted a lot of posts where we were talking but barely any of that was aggression. Most of it was defensive. I said you barely insinuated that I was scum. You've never outright said I was. The closest you got was in one post there you said that I "wasn't looking good" or whatever.

Fact remains, the fact that you have an outright scum read on me is an entirely new revelation.

[Golden]

Whattya mean melodramatic? Figured that'd be the best way to get you to back off. I have no other recourse. I've explained why I've said what I said and I don't think you're believing me, so it is what it is.

What do you want me to back off of? I'm not coming at you!

[Elohcin]

@Eloh - I've read all your posts very carefully.

And do you have any response?

I suspect there will be more votes on Sig before the day's end. What I am curious about is...why sig?

Is the redirection role usually a baddie role or a civ role?

@ Sorsha. I do. Are you voting for Sig today too?

[Matt]

Whattya mean melodramatic? Figured that'd be the best way to get you to back off. I have no other recourse. I've explained why I've said what I said and I don't think you're believing me, so it is what it is.

What do you want me to back off of? I'm not coming at you!

Lol if you believe I'm any other faction other then town, I take that as coming at me. You wouldn't?

[Sorsha]

@Eloh - I've read all your posts very carefully.

And do you have any response?

I suspect there will be more votes on Sig before the day's end. What I am curious about is...why sig?

Is the redirection role usually a baddie role or a civ role?

@ Sorsha. I do. Are you voting for Sig today too?

No I'm not voting for sig today, or any time in the near future for that matter.

I think team hark is rally trying to set sig up. They killed BR night one after she pointed out sig, Draco was also suspicious of sig and he was killed last night and now three votes have been placed on sig and I think someone on team hark is behind that too.

[a2thezebra]

Zebra when and where have you had a scum read on me? I can't find anything on that subject. This is the first I've heard of it I think?

This is the first I've mentioned it as Zebra 2.0. But if you really can't find anything from my posts as Zebra 1.0 (also known as a confirmed civvie) suggesting that your behavior was scum-motivated, then it re-affirms my suspicion that it was not that you were failing to read my posts, but instead that you were acting as if you were on purpose to influence my mislynch along with Golden, and it worked. You thought it was "civ vs. civ" right up until Golden suggested that those saying it was a "civ vs. civ" conflict were suspicious, after all.

Nope, you didn't call me scum at all. Show me the posts. You have never said you had a scum read and you barely even insinuated that my motivation could be scum led. This is the first you've mentioned it. Ergo it doesn't re-affirm anything because this is the first affirmation.

I think I've addressed this bullshit to end all bullshits. Moving on.

You are way better a player as town than to be caught up in the idea you just put forth. That's far-fetched as hell. Do you genuinely think scum would just outwardly ally together on day 1 to get a random civ lynched?

It's not an irrational suggestion because I'm not dead set that you are a team, nor did I imply that (putting words in my mouth again I see). I think it is more likely that one of you are scum and the other is not, which is another reason why I have been more quiet towards the two of you in my second incarnation.

So why did you just infer that you've maintained an obvious scum read on me and why have you been interacting with me without so much as anything to indicate I am a scum read, and if you have a scum read of me, what do you make of my interactions with Elohcin who you have a huge scum read on?

I made clear as soon as I was reborn in the thread that I would not pursue the initial Golden conflict (until town wakes up of course), and since my suspicions of you were tied to that, that goes for you as well. I did not imply that my scum read of you was obvious, I even stated that I had not even mentioned it as Zebra 2 until just now, so why put words in my mouth that are directly contradicted by the very post that you're responding to? That is just plain lazy scum behavior. As for your reactions with Elohcin, the day is young. You act as if each of my reads have to be based on the assumption that each of my other reads are one hundred percent positive, and that would be lazy scumhunting, wouldn't it?

[Golden]

Whattya mean melodramatic? Figured that'd be the best way to get you to back off. I have no other recourse. I've explained why I've said what I said and I don't think you're believing me, so it is what it is.

What do you want me to back off of? I'm not coming at you!

Lol if you believe I'm any other faction other then town, I take that as coming at me. You wouldn't?

No, and if you actually read my posts instead of getting defensive I think it would very clear to you why.

[Golden]

@Eloh - I've read all your posts very carefully.

And do you have any response?

I suspect there will be more votes on Sig before the day's end. What I am curious about is...why sig?

Is the redirection role usually a baddie role or a civ role?

@ Sorsha. I do. Are you voting for Sig today too?

No, I don't have any particular response. I feel sorry for sig, but if there are more votes before days end, then I really hope he turns out to be bad.

[a2thezebra]

Yeah you just quoted a lot of posts where we were talking but barely any of that was aggression. Most of it was defensive. I said you barely insinuated that I was scum. You've never outright said I was. The closest you got was in one post there you said that I "wasn't looking good" or whatever.

Fact remains, the fact that you have an outright scum read on me is an entirely new revelation.

I dare any fellow civilian to read this post I am quoting here, and then read each of my posts I quoted above. If you really think that most of it was defensive then...I mean yikes, Mac. I even outright asked you if you were bad in one of those posts, and you didn't respond to it then either.

[a2thezebra]

Whattya mean melodramatic? Figured that'd be the best way to get you to back off. I have no other recourse. I've explained why I've said what I said and I don't think you're believing me, so it is what it is.

What do you want me to back off of? I'm not coming at you!

Lol if you believe I'm any other faction other then town, I take that as coming at me. You wouldn't?

But town isn't limited to one faction. Right, Matt?

[Matt]

Whattya mean melodramatic? Figured that'd be the best way to get you to back off. I have no other recourse. I've explained why I've said what I said and I don't think you're believing me, so it is what it is.

What do you want me to back off of? I'm not coming at you!

Lol if you believe I'm any other faction other then town, I take that as coming at me. You wouldn't?

No, and if you actually read my posts instead of getting defensive I think it would very clear to you why.

Because you accused me of being a town aligned indy as opposed to just being town? Is that what you're trying to say?

Either way, you and Mac were both sussin' me for me saying something obvious.

Anyway, I admit to getting defensive and apologize but it super weirded me out.

Linki - Zebra - I have no idea how many factions town has. For now, I see one faction being town. Every other faction - unknown.

[a2thezebra]

And which faction is that, Matt? The one that you are sure is town?

[Matt]

And which faction is that, Matt? The one that you are sure is town?

Which faction do you think is town?

I mean, really now?

[MacDougall]

Zebra when and where have you had a scum read on me? I can't find anything on that subject. This is the first I've heard of it I think?

This is the first I've mentioned it as Zebra 2.0. But if you really can't find anything from my posts as Zebra 1.0 (also known as a confirmed civvie) suggesting that your behavior was scum-motivated, then it re-affirms my suspicion that it was not that you were failing to read my posts, but instead that you were acting as if you were on purpose to influence my mislynch along with Golden, and it worked. You thought it was "civ vs. civ" right up until Golden suggested that those saying it was a "civ vs. civ" conflict were suspicious, after all.

Nope, you didn't call me scum at all. Show me the posts. You have never said you had a scum read and you barely even insinuated that my motivation could be scum led. This is the first you've mentioned it. Ergo it doesn't re-affirm anything because this is the first affirmation.

I think I've addressed this bullshit to end all bullshits. Moving on.

You are way better a player as town than to be caught up in the idea you just put forth. That's far-fetched as hell. Do you genuinely think scum would just outwardly ally together on day 1 to get a random civ lynched?

It's not an irrational suggestion because I'm not dead set that you are a team, nor did I imply that (putting words in my mouth again I see). I think it is more likely that one of you are scum and the other is not, which is another reason why I have been more quiet towards the two of you in my second incarnation.

So why did you just infer that you've maintained an obvious scum read on me and why have you been interacting with me without so much as anything to indicate I am a scum read, and if you have a scum read of me, what do you make of my interactions with Elohcin who you have a huge scum read on?

I made clear as soon as I was reborn in the thread that I would not pursue the initial Golden conflict (until town wakes up of course), and since my suspicions of you were tied to that, that goes for you as well. I did not imply that my scum read of you was obvious, I even stated that I had not even mentioned it as Zebra 2 until just now, so why put words in my mouth that are directly contradicted by the very post that you're responding to? That is just plain lazy scum behavior. As for your reactions with Elohcin, the day is young. You act as if each of my reads have to be based on the assumption that each of my other reads are one hundred percent positive, and that would be lazy scumhunting, wouldn't it?

Bullshit to end all bullshits? That is a really strong reaction Zebra...

Did the below post not infer that Golden and I were working in tandem in the thread to get you lynched? I can see how it can be taken both ways. Can't you?

but instead that you were acting as if you were on purpose to influence my mislynch along with Golden, and it worked. You thought it was "civ vs. civ" right up until Golden suggested that those saying it was a "civ vs. civ" conflict were suspicious, after all.

You aren't chasing me individually because you don't want the town to be swamped by tunnelingesque cases (heh this is like in the other thread innit)?

Okay I maybe just misunderstood your posts then. I really hadn't felt pressured from you at all. Even initial you.

[Golden]

Tunnelingus?

[a2thezebra]

And which faction is that, Matt? The one that you are sure is town?

Which faction do you think is town?

I mean, really now?

I asked first.

[a2thezebra]

Okay I maybe just misunderstood your posts then.

Yeah right, what else is new? You used that excuse constantly when I was Zebra 1, too. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.

[MacDougall]

Okay I maybe just misunderstood your posts then.

Yeah right, what else is new? You used that excuse constantly when I was Zebra 1, too. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.

Don't snip my post when the other part is relevant. I never felt like you had real suspicion on me. It is how it is.

[Matt]

And which faction is that, Matt? The one that you are sure is town?

Which faction do you think is town?

I mean, really now?

I asked first.

Well, considering the amount of players the faction has, I'm going to assume the first faction on the role list are the civilians. Is there a single person in this game who thinks otherwise? Zebra, were you expecting any other answer? I'm at a loss to your questioning here.

[Elohcin]

Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

[MacDougall]

Zebra you can choose to believe that I am incapable of comprehending the English language if you want, or you can choose to believe that perhaps you are struggling to convey your own points, or you can choose to believe that I am a bad guy and intentionally misunderstanding your points to suit my agenda. It's not the case, otherwise why would I now be trying to extrapolate the truth and backing away from you?

Inb4 I am doing that because I don't want you on my ass. Let me stop you right there and say do I actually seem like someone who would do that?

[a2thezebra]

And which faction is that, Matt? The one that you are sure is town?

Which faction do you think is town?

I mean, really now?

I asked first.

Well, considering the amount of players the faction has, I'm going to assume the first faction on the role list are the civilians. Is there a single person in this game who thinks otherwise? Zebra, were you expecting any other answer? I'm at a loss to your questioning here.

Noted.

[a2thezebra]

Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

I've asked you for a single reason and you have yet to provide one.

[Sorsha]

Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

FZ and TH. I have a list of 6 players who I believe are not team hark. Zebra isn't on that list but I'd have to review her posts closer before I'd vote for her.

[a2thezebra]

Zebra you can choose to believe that I am incapable of comprehending the English language if you want, or you can choose to believe that perhaps you are struggling to convey your own points, or you can choose to believe that I am a bad guy and intentionally misunderstanding your points to suit my agenda. It's not the case, otherwise why would I now be trying to extrapolate the truth and backing away from you?

Inb4 I am doing that because I don't want you on my ass. Let me stop you right there and say do I actually seem like someone who would do that?

I don't know Mac, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Throughout this back-and-forth I've been leaning towards the third of the "choose to believe"s. I think you can comprehend the English language just fine, and I also think that outright asking someone if they are bad as the footnote to a post that demonstrates the likelihood of that possibility is in fact not struggling to convey what I wish to convey, so that leaves the latter as the most logical conclusion. Thanks for the help!

[a2thezebra]

I would appreciate a response to ANY of the points I made here, Eloh.

I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

If the baddies kill me, I'm blaming you Mac

This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.

You're bad. There's civ tunneling and then there's baddie tunneling. This is the latter. Civs who tunnel at least look at other candidates and consider the different possibilities of what's going on. This is just ridiculous.

Um...I have looked at other candidates. And I underlined it above. Also, you are zebra 2, so going after you is not the same as going after zebra 1. Therefore, I have been looking at you for about, oh, a few hours, that is all. I have suspected at least 5 others along with you, Zebra 1, Niju, TH, FZ, and Bea. I am not tunneling.

Also, regarding your other post, I know what I am doing. I suspected Zebra 1 and retracted. Now I am suspecting Zebra 2.

This is a weak defense at best. You say that going after Zebra 2 isn't the same as going after Zebra 1, but in the post I responded to here, you didn't even know that I was Zebra 2 at that point. And you didn't care. Just because you claim to suspect other candidates doesn't mean you're not tunneling. Tunneling is when you only focus on one. And yes, before someone chimes in, I do it all the time. But like I said, there is a difference between civ and baddie tunneling. Could I at least get some reasons for your imaginary suspicion of "Zebra 2", since, as you said yourself, it's not the same as Zebra 1, even though you thought it was and now that you know better you have still yet to provide any reason to suspect me, let alone lynch me? And you seem quite interested in the sig votes, which were obviously forced. Are you not interested in niju not being on the poll today, while you are?

[Golden]

Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

If I hadn't voted sig, and I had a binary choice between voting either zebra or voting mac, I would choose to vote zebra. I could not be induced to vote mac today.

Zebra isn't at the top of my list though. And I'd rather not assume sig must be good... he could still be bad, despite the three votes he already has.

[Elohcin]

Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

I've asked you for a single reason and you have yet to provide one.

Your vote yesterday and your tone overall. And I have responded to you in several different posts. I will not respond again. Read me again.

Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

FZ and TH. I have a list of 6 players who I believe are not team hark. Zebra isn't on that list but I'd have to review her posts closer before I'd vote for her.

Zebra, FZ, and TH are my top suspects as well. Please reread Zebra and then tell me what you think.

@ Golden, I agree that Sig could still be good.

I will ask again...is a redirection role usually a baddie role or a civvie role. Can anyone answer that?

[Matt]

Sorsha - Why do you suppose Harkonnen spared you?

I'm assuming there is a protector role in this game since there's one in every game. So I'm guessing they thought that I'd be an obvious candidate for the protector last night so they chose someone else.

Sorry was in defense mode and forgot about this...

That makes a ton of sense there. Derp.

[Sorsha]

I think a redirect role could be either good or bad. Has epi used in games in the past? What were those ones?

[Golden]

@Eloh - I see no reason to presume either way, but also lets not forget that if someone had a redirection role, they would not know what power they were redirecting. A baddie, for instance, might attempt to redirect a power to themselves in the hope that it is positive or to learn what it is (a tactic I know for a fact Metalmarsh kept wanting to use when we were bad in a Gentleman's Guide and we had that power as a baddie - he kept saying 'lets redirect to me').

[Elohcin]

Golden, thanks for that, you are correct. Well...if a baddie redirected at another baddie (I know Epi doesn't allow self targeting but they could have redirected at a teammate) then I would love to be a fly on the wall in the BTSC right now. Haha...if they did that, they got what they deserve

[Elohcin]

well, I am off to bed. I need to sleep while the chit'lins are. Night.

[a2thezebra]

Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

I've asked you for a single reason and you have yet to provide one.

Your vote yesterday and your tone overall. And I have responded to you in several different posts. I will not respond again. Read me again.

This would be fine and dandy if I was just repeating myself, but I am not. There are things that I have brought up that you have failed to address, and I believe that this is a tactical move on your part.

Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

FZ and TH. I have a list of 6 players who I believe are not team hark. Zebra isn't on that list but I'd have to review her posts closer before I'd vote for her.

Zebra, FZ, and TH are my top suspects as well. Please reread Zebra and then tell me what you think.[/quote]
Yes, please, everyone, read (or to be on the safe side, yes, REread) my posts, and tell Elohcin what you think.

[a2thezebra]

oops formatting

[Sorsha]

I will you guys but it won't be till morning. I'm at work now