[END] Pet Sounds Mafia

[Enrique]

It's the best case you could make out of his posts, but the thing is, there's so few of them and we need to be sure You're right, we're gonna have to see how he responds, but in general he's just being such a nub that I'd think he would be more involved as a baddie. There is a chance that he's exactly as clueless as he's acting so far in the game.

and you know what im gonna iso look damn right now since it looks like such an easy job

[Enrique]

look

Luke...

[bea]

look - I made a case on tranq.

I'd like opinoins of yes it's a good case or no it's a suck case.

I'd like tranq to respond to it.

[Matt]

I think you make a good case on Tranq, bea. Like I said, I don't have much experience playing with him, but I know he's been way more involved in other games I've played with him then in this one.

And I KNOW he's as experienced as you say he is, hasn't he been playing since the Lost boards? Of all the players outside Floyd and Luke, Tranq is my best bet for Mafia. I'd like to take a look at Enrique. He came out swinging pretty hard asking people for contributions, and then once you make one, Bea, he's like "Hey yo bea, slow down slow down." Wtf

[bea]

It's the best case you could make out of his posts, but the thing is, there's so few of them and we need to be sure You're right, we're gonna have to see how he responds, but in general he's just being such a nub that I'd think he would be more involved as a baddie. There is a chance that he's exactly as clueless as he's acting so far in the game.

and you know what im gonna iso look damn right now since it looks like such an easy job

rico - you played with him in the HV days.

You played with him in the LP days and the the Piano days and the Rev days.

Do you really REALLY REALLY thin that a duchie is that uninvolved unless he thinks he can float on by as a baddie?

Really? really rico??

You've played with the duchies across forums. Do you really think he would intentionally be at least as nub as I am - if he were civ??

Do you think the duchie honnor would allow him to be as nub as near death civ bea - if he were civ? do you think in one little second that if he were a vanilla civ, he would have played better than he has? I personally think that if tranq had been given a vanilla civ card in this game, he'd have had a lot more to say than he has.

[Enrique]

The Sock is dead???

Filler.

I'm voting no lynch for the moment, might change later

This post sparked that whole dealio that got BC lynched for voting for him. Scum save? Probably not. I don't think the Luke train was ever gonna take off properly just based on this post.

I'm voting no lynch for the moment, might change later

So after we've discussed no lynch being a not particularly civ-friendly option, as well as established that changeable votes make throwing one out early not a big deal, you still go for the no lynch? Why so?

In fact, I'll throw my hat—er, vote—in the ring to draw some discussion.

I've been busy lately and I haven't had time to read the thread until now so I just voted to say that I was here so that people wouldn't vote for me just because I wasn't here.

That's his reasoning. Nothing much to say except he probably shouldn't have signed up for this game if he was gonna be so busy that he couldn't read the thread. Not indicative of alignment. (also lol @ how his logic backfired)

Im voting for bcornnet at the moment

Rescue wagon? If I'm reading the poll right, at the time of Luke's vote the poll looked something like this:

BC - 2 (FZ, Zebra and Matt F. At least two of them civvies.)
DrWilgy - 1 (Moi.)
Luke - 2 (BC and Floyd. One civvie, one unknown.)
Tranq - 2 (Choutas and Boomslang. One civvie, one unknown.)

So if he wanted to save himself, his options were BC and Tranq. He went for the one that we know turned out to be a civvie. Bea joined that same train soon after. Tranq left Zebra a vote once the lynch was settled (his was the last vote).

Zebra, earlier you where attacking MetalMarsh and now all of a sudden you've just stopped, why is that.
Voting Zebra for the moment.

This is his last post, again voting for a civ that got lynched. This is roughly what the poll must've looked like:

Zebra - 3 (DrWilgy, Floyd, and I. Wilgy and I civvies, Floyd unknown.)
DrWilgy - 1 (Choutas. Civvie.)
Floyd - 1 (Matt. Unknown.)

So really at that point he was just jumping on the likeliest candidate. Luke and Tranq voted back to back, and even though every subsequent vote was for Tranq, it didn't matter because those two votes gave Zebra a big enough advantage. That's all there is. He didn't show up at all on Day 3 and I wonder if he even knows the game is still underway.

I could see a situation where Luke and Tranq were teammates, Luke's votes definitely worked to Tranq's favor in the first two days (aka the only days he voted).

I don't think Boomslang works as the third scummie. He's voted for Tranq on every day so far. I could buy Day 1 as a distancing move, but on Day 2 Tranq could have so easily died. I know I considered changing my vote that day, and had I done that, Tranq would've died in Zebra's place. That would be a massive risk for Boom to take as Tranq's teammate. In Day 3 he was notably one of the few players not to vote for Choutas, along with Matt and Choutas himself, and again voted for Tranq.

linki - It's a good case, Bea. I just think it's too early to be yelling about how HE IS SO BAD. At this point Tranq is probably my biggest candidate, but again, I want everyone to get a chance to show up and see what's up from there. Maybe you weren't saying to vote for him right now, Bea, but something like that could've very easily happened. Say clueless Luke who hasn't been reading the thread comes in, sees your post, and thinks "oh hey that's a good case I'm convinced" and votes. If you're wrong, that's game over. It's very dangerous to be outright calling anybody scum right now. I do appreciate the effort and it offers a very interesting perspective on Tranq so far.

linki 2 - I get what you're saying, but I also like to think he's above coasting as a baddie. If he's bad and he wins this game, would you be glad to admit that he earned it? Dutchie honor goes both ways.

I think people also overstate how much I've played with you guys This is my 3rd game on The Syndicate (I died on the third phase of both my first games), I played a few games on HV but honestly don't remember coinciding with Tranq a lot, I never actually played a game on RM, I used to play in Lostpedia where I don't think he did, and I used to play on Piano where we probably played a few games together but that would be it and too long ago. I mostly know Tranq from IRC, and I can see your Dutchie honor thing, which is why I think baddie Tranq would be having more fun.

[Enrique]

Since that was so useful and I haven't taken my sleepy pills yet, I'll keep going with these. Next up is our pal Floyd. Let's see what his posts and voting records say about him.

[bea]

rico - I get it.


all around. I just got extra excited ya know...


I am looking forward to seeing what you have to say when I wake up again because my laptop is battary dying.


also my thinking beers have moved past thinking..


so it's best to see this tomorrow.

[Enrique]

Sweet, this'll be a good game, I'm loo...

God, no! MP!



We will avenge you!

Nothing to see here. You could call it "over-eager to show he's good," but nah, that's a pretty standard first post.

Come on Choutas, let's get 9,000 posts in this game. You and me.

If you manage to do that I will be immensely impressed.

Does anyone find Zebra changing her vote a number of times somewhat suspicious?

Linki - I second bcornett's statement about keeping posts to a minimum.

I remember this bothering me a lot early on, and I had completely forgotten about it. Keeping posts to a minimum? That's exactly how you let baddies coast along the way they have so far. Terrible suggestion. This game is tiny, you shouldn't have any problems keeping up with it.

*sigh* Luke, you really gotta read the whole thread before you post something.

Remember this whole thing? Probably, since I was just talking about it in my last post. Floyd's vote was the second for Luke, after BC's. Opportunistic, disingenuous, and pretty much the only thing we can associate with Floyd before going into his posts.

This is the first Ive heard of the term CFD, although, I have seen such an action take place.

Zebra, MM, Wilgy. You all have pinned very reasonable allegations on each other. I don't believe that all three of you are scum, but that one or two of you are.

So in summary:

None of them were. He keeps talking about this for a couple of posts, saying that MM and Zebra couldn't be teammates because they were going after each other so hard, then immediately resigning this opinion when DrWilgy suggests that it could've been a distancing tactic. He doesn't seem particularly interested in taking a side, just perpetuating the argument, because as we know, it didn't involve him or any of his possible teammates.

Floyd, instead of going with what is most recent, can you look between two points of view on this theory? MM, Zebra, and I being on a team vs MM, Zebra, and I not being on a team? and explain where each has their merit and fault?

Alright, my attempt at my first ISO:

Evidence for a team:

• Wilgy and MM discussing CFD and its usage in the Talking Heads game (Zebra is unaware of what a CFD is).
  Lack of interaction with Bea, aside from one comment from Wilgy pleading that she doesn't die.
  Constant talk between the three of you (purely a coincidence that only the three of you were online? (Well, apart from Bea's statements about her health)).

Evidence for no team:

• Wilgy grabbing dinner as soon as Zebra asks him what a CFD is.
  Wilgy asking Zebra why she's only questioned Choutas' no lynch vote once.
  Zebra reading "very deeply" into MM's posts.
  The voting of one another (this could also be evidence for a team, if they're trying to pin it on one another to keep themselves perceived as civ).

This post during that period just has bad logic written all over it. Jeez. I don't think people are coordinating their dinner times for the sake of a fake beef on a mafia game. All of those people turned out to be good, so arguing with his logic is a moot point. It's just all wrong.

He keeps trying to justify his Luke vote for a bit, yadda yadda bullshit.

I'll try this rainbow thing a few people did on Talking Heads to answer your question.

Civ-
TheFloyd73
Matt F


Maybe Civ-
Luke
Bea
Tranq


Neutral/Unknown
Boomslang
DrWilgy
Enrique


Maybe Scum
Choutas


Scum
Zebra
MetalMarsh


Ugh, I'm so tired at the moment.

But then... not? He dropped Luke the second it didn't pan out. Now he's "maybe civ." Everyone under scum turned out to be good (granted I vote for two of them too). The fact that he has Matt F as the only other name under "Civ" is interesting. I'm not gonna look too deep into what this says about Matt because WIFOM etc etc, but what does it tell us about Floyd? Out of nowhere he's linking a different name (that he has never mentioned before) to his own. This bothers me a lot.

Voting Zebra. I'm almost certain she's scum.

Floyd's was the fourth vote that day. Wilgy and I had voted for Zebra, Choutas for Wilgy. I don't have many problems with this, but we know it didn't turn out so well.

Matt, I may be wrong about Luke. Luke did end up changing his vote to someone else.
Honestly, I'm really tired at the moment. I've had two exams today and I just want to sleep.

As one is bound to do after having the whole thread jump on his vote. He seems pretty indifferent towards anything Luke.

Is nobody else feeling Floyd? I appreciate the answers, Floyd, but I feel like something doesn't add up with you voting for your bud like that.

Zebra's post (the one I showed you earlier) stated that the No Lynch choice more than likely doesn't work in the civs favour. Luke ended up voting for it, for I assume one of two reasons:
1. He's scum and he voted for it after reading what Zebra said. (This may be considered a scum slip).
2. He had not read the full thread yet and figured voting for No Lynch so make sure he had voted. But he never suppied a full reason for voting for no lynch specifically. (When he later voted for Bcornett, he didn't state a reason either. Might be because he is not very experienced or that he is being indoctrinated via BTSC).

Now I think about it, I would probably move Luke to "maybe scum."

"Yeah, it's just like, whatever. Maybe he's good maybe he's bad. idk man get off my case."

RIP Zebra, I feel awful that I've helped lynch a fellow civ.

His only contribution to Day 3 and last contribution to the game. Like Luke, didn't show up to vote, and hasn't been seen since.

Okay that looked pretty damn bad to me. No GTH necessary.

[Enrique]

Bad, or really, extremely, waaay too indifferent*

Look forward to his reply.

[Enrique]

Next in the list is the man of the moment... Tranq! Bea already covered most points, so I'm just gonna offer some points.

...

He really hasn't said anything, has he? I count a total of 168 words and five smileys, and that's if we're counting "beer-related" as two words. Tranq may have more posts than Floyd, and despite being a lynch candidate every day, he's as present in the thread as Luke. That's extremely concerning. I already pointed out in my Luke ISO how a link could be drawn between Luke and Tranq's voting records, and I guess lynching one of the two would be the way to figure out if there is such. We literally can't afford to waste another lynch, so if we lynch one of the two it's gonna have to be on their own merits. Unfortunately, they have added so little to the game that we're gonna have to wait and see what those merits are.

Don't think that if you don't show up we're just gonna let you loose, though. Baddie coasting is lazy, and the way things are looking, at least one of you should be ashamed. Tsk, tsk.

[Enrique]

Bea already covered most points, so I'm just gonna offer some points.

wow that was a terrible sentence i apologize. maybe replace the second points with "quick observations"

[Enrique]

I'm voting no lynch for the moment, might change later

So after we've discussed no lynch being a not particularly civ-friendly option, as well as established that changeable votes make throwing one out early not a big deal, you still go for the no lynch? Why so?

In fact, I'll throw my hat—er, vote—in the ring to draw some discussion.

This is Boomslang's first on-topic post, and again, it's preying on Luke. We've gone over this a billion times, so maybe it's not necessary to point out again that the move wouldn't make sense whether Luke was good or bad. But I just did anyway 'cause fuck it.

Boomslang, Luke is pretty new to Mafia just so you know. He's played a few games but I think he's still getting the grasp of it.

Fair enough, and I'll take that under consideration. Still, even if he's new, he's had the same chance to study the thread and its arguments as the rest of us. The vote did come after all of that naysaying, so to ignore it is still making a statement.

Nothing to see here, I guess. Logical reaction. Sort of? I wanted to quote it anyway because it rubs me the wrong way how he goes both directions here. It's like "you're right, I should cut him some slack, BUT MY VOTE IS VALIDATED ANYWAY."

As I said, my vote wasn't set in stone but merely there to spur some more discussion. Which I think it did quite nicely. Zebra summarizes the other side of the argument (that there's no good baddie reason to vote No Lynch after the thread discussion) very well, and I concur.

I'm growing a little more interested in DrWilgy. I feel like he's pumping up his post count with a lot of short comments and questions that could be condensed into single posts. This runs a little counter to what I saw in Recruitment; obviously this is a totally different game, but it's enough to increase my interest.

Tranq should really do a post soon, I think. With 13 people, flying under the radar should be a no-go. I'll change up the vote there to increase the urgency.

Linki: Not all of us are lean, mean posting machines, good Doctor.

See? He's being so logical. It's like he got called out, and immediately backtracked and conceded. But it's also logical.

His next few posts make it clear he's definitely not affiliated with Tranq. He presses him when no one else does.

RIP FZ. Hardmode is right when the cop goes down on the first night... sigh.

Wait a second. Zebra, are you saying that you read the thread, read that I proposed a CFD, didn't know what it ment, read that Tranq had to google search it, didn't google search it yourself in the 24 hours we had between phases, and are just now concerned with what a CFD is, when it involves you?

Correct. Your case against me was that unconvincing. I didn't even care enough to respond to it and also didn't care enough to worry about whatever a CFD is to know that if it meant any kind of trouble for me and it was your suggestion to the rest of town, it wasn't going to happen.

Now this is an interesting post. Especially when it regards vocabulary that became important to following the thread. That kind of cockiness might come from knowing that you've got two other people in your corner (the rest of the mafia) who won't board your wagon. If the case was so unconvincing, it should have been easy to refute, right?

He's reading too deep into it. It's very subdued, but every post brings the suggestion that he could come out and vote for you at any time. Holding his cards close to his chest? The fact that he has voted for Tranq in every single lynch so far adds to this idea. He's a wildcard, no commitments, no strings attached. Perfectly inoffensive when he's looking at anyone except the guy he can't get lynched.

Enrique. What made Boomslangs faulty logic more influential than other logics on last poll?

The fact that people followed him.

That is the definition of influential :P I'd argue that my vote wasn't so much influential in terms of argument as in giving an excuse for other uncommitted voters (bcornett, Floyd) to put their names on the poll. You'll notice they followed directly after me (9, 10, 11). I changed my selection once I felt satisfied with the level of discussion about the point; the other two did not.

Okay, how's that for getting to call other people uncommitted and still get away with it? The fact that those three followed directly after only helps cement my idea that he was being a negative influence on the poll. If he was trying to get a civvie Luke lynched, he nearly succeeded while absolving himself of responsibility. If he was trying to draw distance with his teammate, he backed away when he saw it could backfire. But, and this is important, if he was just a civvie, then he did the logical thing by moving his vote, but that doesn't justify his original action. Again, he's leaving every door open. A mafioso making himself impossible to read can be a tell on itself. I'm not liking the way Boomslang gives off the illusion of being helpful, only to back out and vote for Tranq again. He's definitely been flying under my radar this whole time, and the fact that he hasn't received a single vote so far tells me he's working the game to perfection.

He spends the next few posts talking about how bad Choutas looks. That's until Choutas calls him out on his refusal to commit:

Will you conveniently stash your vote against me? There are two major wagons happening why don't you join in the fun?

Why yes, everyone jumping off the cliff IS having a great time! I think I'll go right away!

That's a lame defense and you know it.

Which he just dismisses. But it's not just a defense, it's a pattern. Boomslang manages to get away with every single lynch without a scratch on his voting record. Of course the moment Choutas calls him out, he immediately shifts his attention... guess where?

Boomslang - Do you no longer find Tranq suspicious? It seems you were questioning him a bit and then dropped it completely and moved to Choutas.

I'm still suspicious of Tranq, but this day has given me very little else to go off of regarding him :/ An explanation of the Zebra vote would be nice, even if it was theoretically a temp vote?

It's right, it's logical. Tranq isn't giving anybody anything to work with.

Zebra, you posted enough to counter my previous read; that's why I let that suspicion drop. I'm changing my vote to Tranq in hopes of countering the other wagon, which I don't like.

But he doesn't drop it. Guess who the other Tranq voter was at this point? Choutas. Boomslang is incapable of taking a side. At any sign of being questioned, he changes his vote and quells any worries.

Man, it's an animal slaughterhouse out there... RIP MM and Zebra.

Regarding Wilgy and Tranq, I don't think they're both mafia, based on this post alone:

why the Choutas vote other than simple revenge?

I asked who to vote for and DrWilgy responded.

Two Pets in one Sound.

WIFOM nonwithstanding, I doubt that mafia teammates would acknowledge that direct influence so clearly. Especially with Tranq being such a low poster, where every post can be scrutinized. I don't like how Wilgy is deciding to step back after the bad lynch result, but I really don't like how Tranq just shrugged off his Zebra vote as temporary very early in the day, then never bothered to explain it or move it to someone else. It was a close lynch, and when he saw the momentum gathering against him, I think he figured it'd be better to lay low and maintain his advantage than try to defend himself.

That won't work this time around. *votes Tranq* Calling you out.

That's a firm, strong stance. Valid. But again, he keeps talking about Tranq.

Boomslang what don't you like about me stepping back?

I suppose if you need to clear your head, you need to clear your head. I guess I was just skeptical of the timing: immediately after a lynch you directed, you decided to go much less visible rather than discussing your thought process and hunting among those who followed your lead. Seems like reduced visibility is working for people in this game, so I can't blame you. You're exactly right when you say it's impossible get a read on the very low/insubstantial posters this game... I think you're right that not all of them can be mafia, because they couldn't have coordinated the silent strategy from Day 1 onward.

Such a talent for avoiding confrontation. He's spent all game flying right under our noses.

bea - Please share your thoughts.

I'm inclined to give bea the benefit of the doubt here. She seems to have been legitimately sick over much of this game, and I don't see baddie bea expressing that weakness quite so intensely. She also has 25 posts (although none today), most with actual opinions or questions, which is more than many of the other players at this point (including me).

This is very fair, but at the same time, it's another soft opinion made to appeal to a specific player. No finger pointing, no nothing. Boomslang wants you to trust him.

15 minutes from the vote, and the state of the game has progressed practically not at all. Based on the Zebra vote and lack of contribution today, I might look at Floyd in greater detail tomorrow. Regarding today's posting:

He might. He better. Lynch or lose. Give me a legitimate reason to trust you, Boom.

This is my longest ISO so far, and possibly the most damning, but also keep in mind... Boomslang is the only one so far that has given me this amount to work with. The way people respond to these is very important, and I'm definitely not going to base my vote on these alone. I'm gonna keep going and hopefully find at least one person that I can read positively

[bea]

outside of tranq boom was my next bad go to. I just felt I had more to work with with tranq and boom was secondary.

If you feel differently that;s cool too.

I am holding my vote till I hear from the accused and I have to vote.

[Enrique]

G2H I think someone in the Luke voters is bad.

bcornett for now.

Matt's Day 1 can be summarized as questions, misunderstandings, and goofiness. This is his strongest position of the day. For some lynch analytics (and yes this is without taking vote changes into account) the poll must've looked something like:

BC - 2 (FZ, Zebra. Cop and civ.)
DrWilgy - 1 (It's a me.)
Luke - 2 (BC, Floyd. Civ and unconfirmed.)
Tranq - 1 (Choutas. Civ.)

Tranq and Luke survive and remain safe, civvie BC takes the fall. Luke was the next to vote for BC, and as I've already pointed out, Tranq voted for Zebra after the result was secured. Do I smell a possible triangle here? Boomslang isn't a part of it, so who knows, but Day 1 was very interesting because of how it worked out and because of how weak the lynch trains were.

RIP bcornett and FZ. Wtf I can't believe the Mafia took out the cop night 1!!

bcornett - I never got a chance to respond to you, and I'm sorry I helped get you lynched, but I thought it was super fishy how people were voting for Luke for the reason they were, considering how new to the game he is. At the time of my vote, Luke had three votes, you had two, and the other Luke voters had zero a piece (Boomslang and Floyd), so pushing you into a tie with Luke was the best option at the time, IMO.

MM - I know you moved your vote away from me, but if there's anything you want to ask, feel free.

I've read the Zebra/Wilgy/MM exchange, but I'm tired and don't think I get some of it. Even though it was explained, I'm still not entirely sure what chinese fire drill means. Can someone explain it again?

And on a positive note, my man Bernie killed it again at the debates tonight. I think my favorite part of the whole night was Hillary invoking 9/11 when discussing her Wall Street backers. Wow.

Maybe he's being genuine here, but ties are generally not seen very favorably. There's a three-man team looking to exploit the poll to their advantage. A tie gives them the freedom to do whatever they want with it. Like, say... have a teammate secure the result, and have another leave a vote completely removed from the situation. Where have I seen something like that?

He's very clear about protecting Luke with his vote. Because he's new. That's fair when it's fair. It's also scum-motivated when it's scum-motivated.

Hey Floyd, I think you may have missed this.

Anyway, Floyd, why did you vote for Luke? In the post voting for him, you said "You really have to read the whole thread before posting"...so did you think he was bad or was it just a place vote which you never got around to changing?

Wilgy, I don't know which direction to look right now. Again, you and Luke were slightly defended by FZ. On top of that, you already have 70 posts in this game which is more then you had after like 6 day phases in Talking Heads so if you're bad again, then you're playing it way different. I made a joke earlier about it, but when Zebra starts shouting in all caps, that's typical civ behavior from Zebra I've seen in recent games.

I'd like to hear more from Tranq and whenever she gets better, bea.

Placing a vote on Floyd for now. He hasn't answered my question I posed above despite posting three times since then. I find it really weird that he would vote for his rl buddy knowing Luke is still super new.

Linki - Zebra - I see you've voted for Wilgy. Don't you think he could possibly be the civilian FZ found at the beginning of the game or no? Also, Wilgy is being waaaay different then TH.

He clings to the idea that because Floyd is friends with Luke, he should know better than to vote like that. I can get behind that reasoning.

This post also includes his first ever mention of Tranq.

Continuing the Day 1 tradition, nearly all of his posts are questions. What do you think of this, what did you mean by that, yadda yadda. He has some observations to make, but doesn't offer many conclusions. He works with what's in front of him, and does very little with it. He is good at getting words out of people, though.

He was the only one to vote for Floyd on Day 2, and to his credit, he did nothing to save Tranq. So there's a hole in the Tranq-Luke-Matt triangle theory.

Quiet Day 3. He's "down with a Floyd lynch," but lays low for the rest of the day and pretty much removes himself from the equation by leaving his vote on Bea for... well, no real reason, just pressuring her to talk. And that's it. He doesn't return and doesn't really comment on other happenings besides vaguely aligning himself with Wilgy while demanding a closer look at him and Tranq. He then goes and takes issue with any post representing Wilgy in a negative light.

Hey, wow, this is my first ISO to reach Day 4! lol. Unfortunately I don't have much to comment on. He's here, which is really nice on itself, and he's encouraging discussion. He looks like he's kinda hedging his bets by throwing a little shade at everyone (except for Bea), but then again... I don't blame him. I thought I might've been into something at the beginning of this post with the Tranq-Luke-Matt triangle, but ultimately, it doesn't work out. With that out of consideration, Matty looks good. I think I can finally narrow down my vote just a little bit.

Bea's next and last!

[bea]

After all of this, where do you feel the vote is best served ?

[Enrique]

I've never seen it work in town's favor. Ever. You're more likely to pick a random player to lynch and get lucky than lynch no one and give scum a free night kill. That's essentially what "no lynch" is, it's surrendering to mafia.

I can see why a person new to the concept would like it though. It's essentially doing the same thing that people do when they random day 1. I admit, I was fascinated by the idea the first time I'd been exponsed to it till all the stuff that comes after this post was explained to me.

That said....I still random often on Day 1.

Summarizes Bea's Day 1. Logical, helpful.

I don't either, but Enrique hasn't had any experience with it. Why suspect him?

^

I kinda figured I'd end up getting votes if it turned to be a historically bad idea, but it caught my eye and it's not like there's been a lot more to discuss, even now.

So basically we play it hardcore these games. It's pretty essential to be getting our lynches right from the start or we're toast. That makes sense. Hope to see more discussion before the poll's up.

Why did you suspect that you would be getting votes? Why is it a bad idea to vote for you?

because it's the first thing that's been said that wasn't jokey and could be jumped on? Just spitballin' here....

Yup. Seeing eye to eye here. She picks on opinions from all over the place, and dissects them logically. I can't say there's anything on her Day 1 that I disagree with. I guess the weirdest thing would be failing to mention Luke played LC's game, but really, how big of a deal is that?

But then, without much of an explanation, this happens:

Voting bcorrrnt if something better comes along before the lynch ends and I have time to see it I will vote tbere. For now it's Friday rush....

Other civvies voted for BC as well on Day 1, but the deal is, she hadn't said anything to indicate she'd be voting that way. It was a convenient late vote for the leading candidate. I doubt she was trying to protect Tranq here. And Luke? Ehh, wouldn't have been necessary. So the only real concerning thing here is that she didn't give an explanation for her vote.

She's sick for most of Day 2, so as expected, she doesn't post a lot. But she makes a very clear effort to keep up. This is her first mention of (or interaction with) Tranq in the game:

You guys im still dying. I'm sorry. I'm trying to skim and make sense of everything but my brain just can't processes it. I have no idea who to vote for. My gut says quiet tranq is skerry. Dunno if it's enough for a vote bit definitely worth watching. I have no idea who to vote for. I am gut feeling ok about zee idk why peeps are suspecting her. Matt and Enrique feel ok to me too. ?? Regarding literally everyone else. I hate working when I'm sick. I'm pretty sure I have the plague.

Quiet Tranq is skerry. Lines up with what she's saying now.

Sorry guys. I have moved from dying of thee plauge to being mortally wounded from the plague. I've spent all of my non working time in bed.

Quiet tranq still makes me nervous. I dislike choutus's misdirection about zeebs vote. He looks worse than wilgy to me atm.

Day 3 is just a quiet agreement about Choutas' mess-up (no because really what was up with that). She's still worried about Tranq, but makes no real effort to go after him. Tranq being quiet is scary. Her explanation doesn't move beyond that yet.

And today... well... she's here in full force. Making a stronger case on Tranq, encouraging discussion. Maybe pushing a bit too hard on Tranq and not enough on other people. The urgency would make sense from a scum perspective, given that they pretty much only need one civvie on civvie vote to win the game. But I don't think Bea is scum at all. The fact that I found nothing to disagree with in this whole ISO reflects on the fact that we're seeing eye to eye in this game, meaning we have a common perspective. Bea is gonna help us figure out who is bad before the day is up (and yes, tranq owes us the biggest write-up right now to make up for everything he's missed and because so many other player alignments are threading on him)

So, okay. This is my rainbow right now:

Enrique
Bea
Matt F
Lukenumbersnumbers
TheFloyd73
Boomslang
Tranq

That's a stark contrast in the middle, but... it's about right. Bea and Matt I'm not worried about. I believe 3/4 of the others are scum and putting it like this actually makes me a lot more hopeful for the endgame. We just need to find the one civvie and it's ours.

linki: honestly? Tranq. I feel like Tranq flipping bad would give us Luke, and then it's a toss-up between the other two (most likely Boomslang). I don't know what lynching Boom could give us for tomorrow other than more time to figure things out. Either way, it's nothing to take lightly. If we choose wrong today it's over, and we still don't know anything for sure.

[Enrique]

Enrique
Bea
Matt F
Lukenumbersnumbers
TheFloyd73
Boomslang
Tranq

This is better. Old rainbow was too harsh on Luke But either way, IMO it's Boom or Tranq today.

[TheFloyd73]

I apologise for the lack of contribution. I had to do barrunning for seven and a half hours. I'll catch up slowly

[Boomslang]

I'm voting no lynch for the moment, might change later

So after we've discussed no lynch being a not particularly civ-friendly option, as well as established that changeable votes make throwing one out early not a big deal, you still go for the no lynch? Why so?

In fact, I'll throw my hat—er, vote—in the ring to draw some discussion.

This is Boomslang's first on-topic post, and again, it's preying on Luke. We've gone over this a billion times, so maybe it's not necessary to point out again that the move wouldn't make sense whether Luke was good or bad. But I just did anyway 'cause fuck it.
Just wanted to point out something I saw as odd. Once I got through the logic, I dropped the point.

Boomslang, Luke is pretty new to Mafia just so you know. He's played a few games but I think he's still getting the grasp of it.

Fair enough, and I'll take that under consideration. Still, even if he's new, he's had the same chance to study the thread and its arguments as the rest of us. The vote did come after all of that naysaying, so to ignore it is still making a statement.

Nothing to see here, I guess. Logical reaction. Sort of? I wanted to quote it anyway because it rubs me the wrong way how he goes both directions here. It's like "you're right, I should cut him some slack, BUT MY VOTE IS VALIDATED ANYWAY."
"Some slack" doesn't mean "immediately let someone off the hook." Nice false dilemma there.

As I said, my vote wasn't set in stone but merely there to spur some more discussion. Which I think it did quite nicely. Zebra summarizes the other side of the argument (that there's no good baddie reason to vote No Lynch after the thread discussion) very well, and I concur.

I'm growing a little more interested in DrWilgy. I feel like he's pumping up his post count with a lot of short comments and questions that could be condensed into single posts. This runs a little counter to what I saw in Recruitment; obviously this is a totally different game, but it's enough to increase my interest.

Tranq should really do a post soon, I think. With 13 people, flying under the radar should be a no-go. I'll change up the vote there to increase the urgency.

Linki: Not all of us are lean, mean posting machines, good Doctor.

See? He's being so logical. It's like he got called out, and immediately backtracked and conceded. But it's also logical.
Since when is being logical a bad thing?

His next few posts make it clear he's definitely not affiliated with Tranq. He presses him when no one else does.

RIP FZ. Hardmode is right when the cop goes down on the first night... sigh.

Wait a second. Zebra, are you saying that you read the thread, read that I proposed a CFD, didn't know what it ment, read that Tranq had to google search it, didn't google search it yourself in the 24 hours we had between phases, and are just now concerned with what a CFD is, when it involves you?

Correct. Your case against me was that unconvincing. I didn't even care enough to respond to it and also didn't care enough to worry about whatever a CFD is to know that if it meant any kind of trouble for me and it was your suggestion to the rest of town, it wasn't going to happen.

Now this is an interesting post. Especially when it regards vocabulary that became important to following the thread. That kind of cockiness might come from knowing that you've got two other people in your corner (the rest of the mafia) who won't board your wagon. If the case was so unconvincing, it should have been easy to refute, right?

He's reading too deep into it. It's very subdued, but every post brings the suggestion that he could come out and vote for you at any time. Holding his cards close to his chest? The fact that he has voted for Tranq in every single lynch so far adds to this idea. He's a wildcard, no commitments, no strings attached. Perfectly inoffensive when he's looking at anyone except the guy he can't get lynched.
Reading too deep into it? I think that someone failing to address a case is something that looks bad on surface reading. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by "it."

Enrique. What made Boomslangs faulty logic more influential than other logics on last poll?

The fact that people followed him.

That is the definition of influential :P I'd argue that my vote wasn't so much influential in terms of argument as in giving an excuse for other uncommitted voters (bcornett, Floyd) to put their names on the poll. You'll notice they followed directly after me (9, 10, 11). I changed my selection once I felt satisfied with the level of discussion about the point; the other two did not.

Okay, how's that for getting to call other people uncommitted and still get away with it? The fact that those three followed directly after only helps cement my idea that he was being a negative influence on the poll. If he was trying to get a civvie Luke lynched, he nearly succeeded while absolving himself of responsibility. If he was trying to draw distance with his teammate, he backed away when he saw it could backfire. But, and this is important, if he was just a civvie, then he did the logical thing by moving his vote, but that doesn't justify his original action. Again, he's leaving every door open. A mafioso making himself impossible to read can be a tell on itself. I'm not liking the way Boomslang gives off the illusion of being helpful, only to back out and vote for Tranq again. He's definitely been flying under my radar this whole time, and the fact that he hasn't received a single vote so far tells me he's working the game to perfection.
Or the fact that I haven't received a single vote means that everyone agrees I'm not bad?

He spends the next few posts talking about how bad Choutas looks. That's until Choutas calls him out on his refusal to commit:

Will you conveniently stash your vote against me? There are two major wagons happening why don't you join in the fun?

Why yes, everyone jumping off the cliff IS having a great time! I think I'll go right away!

That's a lame defense and you know it.

Which he just dismisses. But it's not just a defense, it's a pattern. Boomslang manages to get away with every single lynch without a scratch on his voting record. Of course the moment Choutas calls him out, he immediately shifts his attention... guess where?
Wait, so somehow me not joining on one of two wagons is a refusal to commit?

Boomslang - Do you no longer find Tranq suspicious? It seems you were questioning him a bit and then dropped it completely and moved to Choutas.

I'm still suspicious of Tranq, but this day has given me very little else to go off of regarding him :/ An explanation of the Zebra vote would be nice, even if it was theoretically a temp vote?

It's right, it's logical. Tranq isn't giving anybody anything to work with.
Yes, and it's important not to let that slide. Or are you content to let people slip under the radar? (Obviously not, because you're doing these ISOs :-P)

Zebra, you posted enough to counter my previous read; that's why I let that suspicion drop. I'm changing my vote to Tranq in hopes of countering the other wagon, which I don't like.

But he doesn't drop it. Guess who the other Tranq voter was at this point? Choutas. Boomslang is incapable of taking a side. At any sign of being questioned, he changes his vote and quells any worries.
Drop what? I did drop the zebra suspicion. What could you be referring to by "it" then?

Man, it's an animal slaughterhouse out there... RIP MM and Zebra.

Regarding Wilgy and Tranq, I don't think they're both mafia, based on this post alone:

why the Choutas vote other than simple revenge?

I asked who to vote for and DrWilgy responded.

Two Pets in one Sound.

WIFOM nonwithstanding, I doubt that mafia teammates would acknowledge that direct influence so clearly. Especially with Tranq being such a low poster, where every post can be scrutinized. I don't like how Wilgy is deciding to step back after the bad lynch result, but I really don't like how Tranq just shrugged off his Zebra vote as temporary very early in the day, then never bothered to explain it or move it to someone else. It was a close lynch, and when he saw the momentum gathering against him, I think he figured it'd be better to lay low and maintain his advantage than try to defend himself.

That won't work this time around. *votes Tranq* Calling you out.

That's a firm, strong stance. Valid. But again, he keeps talking about Tranq.
Um, when you think someone is bad, you try to get them lynched. That's how you play the game.

Boomslang what don't you like about me stepping back?

I suppose if you need to clear your head, you need to clear your head. I guess I was just skeptical of the timing: immediately after a lynch you directed, you decided to go much less visible rather than discussing your thought process and hunting among those who followed your lead. Seems like reduced visibility is working for people in this game, so I can't blame you. You're exactly right when you say it's impossible get a read on the very low/insubstantial posters this game... I think you're right that not all of them can be mafia, because they couldn't have coordinated the silent strategy from Day 1 onward.

Such a talent for avoiding confrontation. He's spent all game flying right under our noses.
I'd like to thank the academy.

bea - Please share your thoughts.

I'm inclined to give bea the benefit of the doubt here. She seems to have been legitimately sick over much of this game, and I don't see baddie bea expressing that weakness quite so intensely. She also has 25 posts (although none today), most with actual opinions or questions, which is more than many of the other players at this point (including me).

This is very fair, but at the same time, it's another soft opinion made to appeal to a specific player. No finger pointing, no nothing. Boomslang wants you to trust him.
Again, what's wrong with being fair? I take strong stances when I feel strongly, and I give people doubt when I'm unsure.

15 minutes from the vote, and the state of the game has progressed practically not at all. Based on the Zebra vote and lack of contribution today, I might look at Floyd in greater detail tomorrow. Regarding today's posting:

He might. He better. Lynch or lose. Give me a legitimate reason to trust you, Boom.
Well, a Floyd look is incoming, so hold on to your butt.

This is my longest ISO so far, and possibly the most damning, but also keep in mind... Boomslang is the only one so far that has given me this amount to work with. The way people respond to these is very important, and I'm definitely not going to base my vote on these alone. I'm gonna keep going and hopefully find at least one person that I can read positively

[Marmot]

so hold on to your butt.

[Boomslang]

Honestly, Enrique did a pretty good job on Floyd. The early comment about "keeping posts to a minimum" is indeed a classically bad position to take, especially in a game this small.

He interacts most with Dr. Wilgy on Day 2, trying to tease apart a trio of players who all later turned up civ. I almost find it hard to believe he'd target three non-mafia players as mafia himself, precisely because them all flipping good makes him seem very sketchy. But that gets WIFOMY really fast, so make of it what you will. I also don't like him basing many of his Day 2 arguments on timing and online presence, because those indicators are slippery at best. Additionally, he shirks responsibility for the Luke vote by referencing other players' posts instead of explicitly going through his own reasoning.

The rainbow... is a nice touch, but poorly explained, especially (as Enrique has mentioned) the placement of Matt so far up. He has interacted with Matt at this point, but only by answering one of his questions. There's some noncommittal back and forth between the two after that over Luke, nothing intensely felt. Mafia distancing? And then the silence in Day 3.

On the whole, it doesn't look good. I'm comfortable with a Floyd lynch.

[TheFloyd73]

I understand that I'm not looking good at the moment, but I assure you I'm a civ. If you lynch me, we're doomed.

[Enrique]

Boom, my issue isn't with you being logical and fair. Those were positive points, I can make those too But the concerning thing is your ability to stay under the radar by appealing to your detractors. You don't have any firm stances except against Tranq, and your vote is extremely fickle, but ultimately all the back and forth is redundant because we all know where it ends up.

Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but it's the first thing I noticed ISOing you. Whenever you've been called out, you switch positions to get out of that situation.

[Boomslang]

Boom, my issue isn't with you being logical and fair. Those were positive points, I can make those too But the concerning thing is your ability to stay under the radar by appealing to your detractors. You don't have any firm stances except against Tranq, and your vote is extremely fickle, but ultimately all the back and forth is redundant because we all know where it ends up.

Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but it's the first thing I noticed ISOing you. Whenever you've been called out, you switch positions to get out of that situation.

It's really hard to have firm stances when you have this little to go on, as I'm sure you understand. Maybe I have been tunneling Tranq, but that's only because I can't seem to get him lynched :P

[Enrique]

I just realized there's no deadline to the poll. So I guess we'll just wait until everyone shows up.

:tumbleweed:

So umm Bea, what do you think?

[Enrique]

I apologise for the lack of contribution. I had to do barrunning for seven and a half hours. I'll catch up slowly

GTH, who's scum? All three members. Who would you vote for today?

Same goes to everyone else.

GTH, since I don't believe Boom and Tranq could be teammates, I'd say Tranq-Luke-Floyd. But then it doesn't look like any of them is playing, and they've still killed every night so... Boom-Luke-Floyd?

[Boomslang]

Let he who is without posts cast the first stone!

Seriously, Luke has 5 posts. *Seinfeld gesture* What's his deal?

[Tranq]

I don't think Bea is bad.

Which leaves Boom, Luke, Matt and Floyd as suspects.

[Boomslang]

I don't think Bea is bad.

Which leaves Boom, Luke, Matt and Floyd as suspects.

What about Enrique? He is conspicuous by his absence on your list...

[Tranq]

I have a gut civ read on DrWilgy and Enrique. No idea on who's bad so far.

Choutas. Because he voted for someone i think is civ (DrWilgy) and because Enrique (who also sounds civ) voted him.

[Boomslang]

I have a gut civ read on DrWilgy and Enrique. No idea on who's bad so far.

Choutas. Because he voted for someone i think is civ (DrWilgy) and because Enrique (who also sounds civ) voted him.

Oh, pardon me, I must have forgotten. That tends to happen when someone doesn't post meaningful content for stretches of two days at a time.

[Boomslang]

Nothing beyond your gut? After all this time, and for Enrique, who has among the most posts of anyone in the game?

[Tranq]

I don't like how Wilgy is deciding to step back after the bad lynch result, but I really don't like how Tranq just shrugged off his Zebra vote as temporary very early in the day, then never bothered to explain it or move it to someone else. It was a close lynch, and when he saw the momentum gathering against him, I think he figured it'd be better to lay low and maintain his advantage than try to defend himself.

I ended up being afk for the rest of the day. Beer-related reasons

I have a gut civ read on DrWilgy and Enrique. No idea on who's bad so far.

You missed the lynch where you were the second most vote getter for beer related reasons. You have no idea who's bad on like day 2 of a speed game. REALLY? You? the great and powerful Tranq have NO idea who is bad? I call bullshit right the fuck here.

You are so bad. BAD BAD BAD DUCHIE!!!

Choutas. Because he voted for someone i think is civ (DrWilgy) and because Enrique (who also sounds civ) voted him.

Day 3 - day fucking 3 and I have more of a clue as to what's going on than you do and I'm dying from the plauge?? REALLY???

So bad. YOU ARE SO BAD.

I DARE YOU TO PROVE ME WRONG.

Bea, i have no idea who's bad. You have the wrong idea about who is bad. If you vote for me, the three baddies will join you and it's game over. Who has no clue as to what's going on now?

Here are my thoughts on the LYLO:

Matt F and Floyd had an interaction on Day 2 which makes me believe they are not teammates:

Is nobody else feeling Floyd? I appreciate the answers, Floyd, but I feel like something doesn't add up with you voting for your bud like that. Wilgy earlier you said you felt Floyd was civvie, how so?

I also don't understand the votes on Wilgy so soon after we learn FZ was the cop. I'm not saying let him slide all game but so soon?

After reviewing a few ISOs...

Boomslang - Do you no longer find Tranq suspicious? It seems you were questioning him a bit and then dropped it completely and moved to Choutas.

bea - I know you're sick but do you have any suspicions?

Who wants to vote Floyd with me?

I have no read on Boom, Luke, Matt and Floyd other than i think Matt and Floyd are not teammates. Which means atleast one of them is civ. Which means the other 2 are baddies. So i suggest we lynch Boom or Luke.

[bea]

Grrr. Tranq. I can't tell if you or leave serious or if you know I am easily manipulated.

[bea]

Ebwop are serious. Not or leave. What the hell phone?

[Tranq]

I'm serious

[TheFloyd73]

I'm going to finish this game and then take a break from Mafia for a while. I'm not in the greatest mindset at the moment.

[Enrique]

Well, so I guess this ends tonight?

Would you guys be willing to take a shot on Luke? He's been a complete no-show for today, which is really unfair to the rest of us, and it looks like pretty much everyone has him as "possible mafia" so there's that common agreement.

Or just go with Tranq and take it from there. What does everyone else think?

[Enrique]

hey guys remember this game

i think it's supposed to end in a couple hours

hello? anyone?

[Boomslang]

Well, screw it. I'm headed out to a Dan Deacon concert tonight, so I'm not going to be in any place to vote pretty soon. So I'll start the ball rolling. Votes *Luke* for being utterly sketchy and because I think there's more agreement on his Mafia status than on Tranq's.

[Enrique]

I guess that's it.

Luke

[Matt]

Sorry peeps just got home.

I'm not sure what to do here. I feel like if Luke were civ, then the Mafia would've all voted him once Boomslang or Enrique did (if they are civvie, as well). Why didn't Floyd vote?

Boomslang and Enrique - I thought both of you were also looking at Tranq. What happened?

[Enrique]

In my mind Tranq and Boom were the main suspects, but only one of them could be scum. There was little room for Luke either way, and the fact that he hasn't even bothered to show up tells me he's been coasting by the whole game and maybe we're not getting to the scum because they're not even here.

So yeah a Luke vote is probably the best thing we can do for now IMO. Maybe the Mafia hasn't piled up on anyone because they're not even playing. I'm not holding my breath until they show up.

[Matt]

I'm waitin' for bea to show before I vote. Again, though, I feel like if Luke were civvie, then the game would already be over (also assuming at least one of Enrique or Boomslang are civvie) with the Mafia tacking on after them.

The poll doesn't have an end time, is it over when everyone votes?

[bea]

I boom and tranq agreeing about luke is worrisome to me in ways I can't quite find words for.

I'm stuck at work and dying of the plauge still.

Vote ends when we all vote.

I guess I can go with a luke vote but I'm nervous. I still think tranq or boom is bad but if we can't come to concensus on them I guess luke is ok.

[Matt]

If luke is civ and isn't even voting, then we might be sol anyway.

Eff it voting Luke.

[Tranq]

Voted Luke.

[TheFloyd73]

Well, if Luke is a civ, we're screwed.

[bea]

Ok. Luke it is then. Here's hoping he's bad.