Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Game Over

[timmer]

I can't seem to get on very easily. I'm voting for Matt. I trust the arguments against him.

[Golden]

This is a very interesting lynch situation. I wonder if bass shows in the next 8 minutes.

[Long Con]

-= Disorderly =-

"The legend of the Chaos Wizard's defenses is somewhat... intimidating," said the Master Thief. "How do you expect to take him down?"

"This device," Gladius Mechaspark held up a finger, "Is an Encepholatic Expander, designed alter the target's awareness. I, along with the good Doctor, Von Dreszenstein-"

"Just call me Dr Dre," nodded the scientist with a grin.

"Yes, Dr Dre and I," continued Gladius, "Well, we've been doing some experiments on the realm, and have found that it bears certain qualities that may aid us in this. We just need to set it up near enough to him to target... forty meters should be fine. Fifty, maybe."

The Psionic Ninja crept onto Bass' square, and quietly set up the Expander. He flicked the switch, and the device turned on with a quiet whirr. The Chaos Wizard's sensitive ears picked it up, and he immediately rose to his feet, his eyes flaring with chaotic magic, but he was too late.

The rays from Mechaspark's machine hit him, and his point of view grew distant. He saw the land as if from a great distance, the patterns that overlaid their very existence.

"A grid!" he cried out, clutching his head. "It's all... organized! Methodical!" His eyes spun as his viewpoint went microscopic, and he saw the spiralling patterns that made up reality, fractals within fractals, and still deeper, seeing the digital code underneath that made up the world within which his world existed. His soul searched for the embrace of chaos, and found only the cold void of order waiting.

They found him curled up in a fetal position, and he was not even aware of them as they ran him through with a spear.

Bass the Clever has been lynched. He was the Chaos Wizard, a Civvie. It is now Night 11.

[Golden]

OK, so...

TH was not lynched

And I do not know where the end of the Cabal is hiding. Is it possible that timmer, TH and Matt are not all on the same team.

[Long Con]

[Dom]

Voted.

[Dom]

sorry bass, but honestly... maybe you could present a single suspect.

[Matt]

OK, so...

TH was not lynched

And I do not know where the end of the Cabal is hiding. Is it possible that timmer, TH and Matt are not all on the same team.

Just disregard the fact you helped lynch a civ? No "RIP Bass" ? RIP btw Bass. Sorry I also helped get you lynched, the difference being I was saving myself, Golden 100% knew you were bad. No worries, I'm sure I'll be joining you shortly if Golden and the rest of the clown car continue on their inept war path.

Golden, you keep talking about us bringing up semantics, but the fact is, you stated their were four bad guys left. You also stated, twice, that Bass was 100% bad. Oh yeah, one of those times it was "more or less" (so what, like 90% - 110%? was there a possibility that you were 110% sure Bass was bad?)

Looks like I was actually, for once, the voice of reason when it came to questioning whether Bass was even bad. Nice to know.

Anyway, no, I've been super busy for the last week and a half, and if I missed some "Turnip poison" thing or if I skimmed by it, my bad. Though Golden seems to be surprised nothing happened with Turnip, so maybe I didn't miss jack.

I've got two days off in a row, I plan on rereading the thread from a day or two before Thanksgiving.

Golden, you might be good and Turnip might be bad, or vice versa, but I didn't see him attacking you. I saw him curious that you would place your vote on me despite 100% thinking Bass was bad and it was a valid point.

Anyway, judging by the Night Post, Dr Dre is hangin' with the Mafia. BAM, 2 for 2 today.

But no, whenever Matt has a suspect, I'm called irrational and then told I'm making the game personal.

Turnip - What do you make of Dr Dre being on the bad guy team? You were insistent earlier that he was a civ in the first World game, as if by bringing that up, maybe people would leave you alone about it. I appreciate you voting Bass but I think seeing Dre with the baddies is kind of interesting.

MM - Nice of you drop a vote on me by saying "Hi Matt". That was super.

Tranq - Hi I'm Matt. We haven't talked much this game, why do you think I'm bad?

SVS - What do you make of Golden's insistence that Bass is 100% bad?

Sorsha - Same question, after all, you've been spending the days away with Golden this entire game apparently.

[LoRab]

How do you get from the post that dr dre is a baddie? I don't think we know the allegiance of any of those roles and at least a couple of them I had assumed civ.

And interesting that th wasn't lynched. I can't make my mind up on him so I don't know if that's good or bad.

Rip bass.

[Matt]

Voted Golden, SVS, Sorsha.

Oh, and Matt in case this is some sort of switcheroo poll.

Lorab - Master Thief asks Gladius Mechaspark how he intends on taking down Bass. Then Dr Dre shows up as his buddy. Oh, and Psionic Ninja is there too. It's all in the night post.

[Matt]

Oh jeezus, that was a lynch.

Good night. I'll be back tomorrow lol

[Matt]

So in that case, those roles were occupied by those who voted Bass?

Hmmm. MM voted me.

Again, I'm obvi tired. Be back tomorrow, got two days off, let's rock this bitch town! BOOM

[LoRab]

So in that case, those roles were occupied by those who voted Bass?

Hmmm. MM voted me.

Again, I'm obvi tired. Be back tomorrow, got two days off, let's rock this bitch town! BOOM

I think the roles were just story telling. Although all of the roles may be civ--but he could have also mixed them up a bit.

I don't think LC would make it that obvious who voted for whom in a lynch.

I think you are reading too much into the lynch post. And yes, it was a lynch.

[Golden]

So in that case, those roles were occupied by those who voted Bass?

Hmmm. MM voted me.

Again, I'm obvi tired. Be back tomorrow, got two days off, let's rock this bitch town! BOOM

No, because at least one of the people mentioned did not vote for bass. You jump to a lot of assumptions. I do, however, think it probable that all of those roles are still alive.

And no, no "RIP Bass". I don't feel the need to RIP people just because I was wrong, and I never have. Bass didn't even come in and vote you to save himself, and he could have. He could have done anything to prove his civvieness. I had good reason to believe he was responsible for the death of Bullz. Yeah, I was wrong, but it's hardly that which got Bass lynched. I was the last one on. My thought when I saw that lynch come up was 'damn, I should have stuck with Matt'.

My second thought is... that if I'm wrong about bass, what else am I wrong about. It is possible that there are only three baddies left and I'm still on the right track. But I thought Bass death was going to end an entire team. Now, I think, I have placed my trust in someone incorrectly. The question is who.

You have to understand Matt - at some point this game becomes numbers. If I have 9 people I think are good and 4 that I don't know about, I don't need to feel sorry about lynching the four... even if one comes back civ. Each time the lynch goes for one of those 4, I'm confident I'm one step closer to getting the civs the win. Do you understand this? It's maths. It's the odds. I still have no reason to believe you are good.

I'm not going to get involved in your semantics. I can't actually believe that you choose to follow up TH's 'more or less' thing. It's just ridiculous. Everyone knows what that phrase means. Plus, I explained exactly what I meant very clearly. For your benefit...

It means that one always has to recognise there is a margin of error in a game with role secrets/map etc, but that I am as sure as it is possible for me to be.

I'll admit, I may also have gotten slightly cocky in pegging you, TH and timmer as all on one team.

As for the TH thing - look, I think you were right he was genuinely trying to get to the bottom of it. My snippiness towards him came from the fact I feel like he has taken opportunities to throw shade my way over all the last few days. But when I understood what he was getting at, I answered. When people aren't real direct with me, I assume they have an agenda.

[Golden]

@Matt - here is what really intrigues me...

If you are not Dr Dre (which you've claimed not to be a few times) then who is? That post makes them alive, and yet I have no room on my spreadsheet for them to be alive if they are not you...

[fingersplints]

Rip bass
I hate that we lynched a civvie, but I don't feel bad. We gave him many chances to list any suspicions or defend himself and he just didn't.

So in that case, those roles were occupied by those who voted Bass?

Hmmm. MM voted me.

Again, I'm obvi tired. Be back tomorrow, got two days off, let's rock this bitch town! BOOM

I think the roles were just story telling. Although all of the roles may be civ--but he could have also mixed them up a bit.

I don't think LC would make it that obvious who voted for whom in a lynch.

I think you are reading too much into the lynch post. And yes, it was a lynch.

^^^ this.

[Sorsha]

@ Matt- I still have faith that Golden is civvie, even though we were wrong about bass. I did think that bass had a good chance of being bad, my alternative scenario to bass being bad is much more complicated and involves a lot of stuff that has happened bts that can't just be dumped into the thread.

A few days ago I had a moment where I was trying to get across to Golden in the thread that I think he has been tricked into thinking someone was a civ that isn't. (I guess since it's already been out there, yes, Golden and I have traveled together but it hadn't been for nearly as long as it's been portrayed to be and a few nights ago we were split up and haven't been in contact since outside this thread).

Anyway..... Bass coming back as civ has me returning to the possibility that Golden was tricked. It goes back to the Tarnished Gollum killing Mac a few nights ago and my belief that the gollum and the Cabal are working together, this leads me to believe that the Gollums protected player is a member of the Cabal.

[Sorsha]

Derp... Hit submit and didn't want to.

Anyway, if I am correct and if we lynch the player I believe to be the last cabal member that would turn the Gollum into a serial killer. Also, I think the player was able to trick Golden because this player is the trickster so if we do lynch the Gollum or the Trickster who knows what the lynch post will show.

I also know that this is totally side tracking from the Timmer, TH and Matt suspicions that everyone has.... I don't necessarily want to do that but I'm not sure what is more of a priority right now.

[fingersplints]

I think we need to look into other players than those three, so I don't think it is sidetracking.

I voted those three and Dom, because I feel least civvie about Dom outside of three still. I still feel that Golden is still likely a civvie, just wrong like a bunch of us about bass. I've been playing with Golden since his first Mafia game, and he can't fake that tone. I am more paranoid I am wrong about SVS with each passing day, but not enough to abandon that trust. And I still feel ok about MM. Sorsha is also still on my ok list from golden's vouch, but I have to also consider she could be the one he is wrong about.
Everyone else is leaning civvie/neutral/need to revisit

[Golden]

I feel best about splints right now. That is because I believe there is abundant objective evidence of what role she is, and abundant objective evidence that role is on the side of civ. I don't see how I could be fooled on that front. Sorsha is a close second. It's not impossible I could be fooled, but there are lots of reasons I feel confident.

Beyond that, I guess there is a chance that anyone else I think is civ could have me fooled. And I'm coming to the view that one of them must be the trickster.

@Sorsha - you know, I did not want to see that theory. But I'm beginning to think you might be right.

[S~V~S]

Personally I think, as I said regarding Bass, that letting the Circle entrench further and then handing them the Cabals kill is a bad idea. Especially if Sorsha is wrong about this person.

I am sure about 3 out of 4, not so much the 4th. I need to do some reading today.

[Tranq]

Voted Dom + the three musketeers.

[Sorsha]

I only voted for MM because I thought I'd be able to add my other votes later. I'd have also voted for svs and probably TH and Timmer.

[Sorsha]

Personally I think, as I said regarding Bass, that letting the Circle entrench further and then handing them the Cabals kill is a bad idea. Especially if Sorsha is wrong about this person.

I am sure about 3 out of 4, not so much the 4th. I need to do some reading today.

Normally I agree, but if we eliminate one team and are all focused towards the same goal of eliminating the circle I think the lynches are going to become clearer for us.

[Dom]

Splints, if you think I'm baddie-- what team am I on?

[Dom]

Personally I think, as I said regarding Bass, that letting the Circle entrench further and then handing them the Cabals kill is a bad idea. Especially if Sorsha is wrong about this person.

I am sure about 3 out of 4, not so much the 4th. I need to do some reading today.

Are we just pretending you didn't defend/avoid voting for every Cabal member we've lynched?

[fingersplints]

Splints, if you think I'm baddie-- what team am I on?

I don't find suspects based on what team they might be on. I find suspects by what thread actions I find suspicious. I rarely pay attention to "this person is on this team". It's just not how I play.

Also I don't for sure think you are a baddie. But by my process of elimination you are least civvie seeming from what is left. If I had more then 4 options I would have also voted for Lorab, Tranq, and Draconus as I want to revisit all of them too. I'm not a big fan of limiting poll options too much.

Same question to you.

[Dom]

Splints, if you think I'm baddie-- what team am I on?

I don't find suspects based on what team they might be on. I find suspects by what thread actions I find suspicious. I rarely pay attention to "this person is on this team". It's just not how I play.

Also I don't for sure think you are a baddie. But by my process of elimination you are least civvie seeming from what is left. If I had more then 4 options I would have also voted for Lorab, Tranq, and Draconus as I want to revisit all of them too. I'm not a big fan of limiting poll options too much.

Same question to you.

To be frank, this matters more than "how you play". Do you think I'm on the team whose members I voted for or the team that tried to NK me?

If anything you are likely Circle if bad. Although, Golden's comment gives me pause-- I might want to revisit you.

Anyway-- are you at all suspicious of SVS?

[fingersplints]

Voting for someone doesn't necessarily prove anything. In BoB everyone swore I wasn't on team Webber because of my votes and you know how that turned out

Re:SVS

I think we need to look into other players than those three, so I don't think it is sidetracking.

I voted those three and Dom, because I feel least civvie about Dom outside of three still. I still feel that Golden is still likely a civvie, just wrong like a bunch of us about bass. I've been playing with Golden since his first Mafia game, and he can't fake that tone. I am more paranoid I am wrong about SVS with each passing day, but not enough to abandon that trust. And I still feel ok about MM. Sorsha is also still on my ok list from golden's vouch, but I have to also consider she could be the one he is wrong about.
Everyone else is leaning civvie/neutral/need to revisit

It's hard for me to articulate without rulebreaking. There is some out of thread stuff I need to mull over some.

[Draconus]

What a disappointing result Sorry Bass.

Voting Timmer, TH, Matt, and myself. Gotta have my self-vote option

[Draconus]

Oh and Matt, I can confirm that my role wasn't included in the lynch post. Like the others said, I don't think LC would make it that obvious.

More catching up later.

[Marmot]

I only voted for MM because I thought I'd be able to add my other votes later. I'd have also voted for svs and probably TH and Timmer.

Thanks for the vote. I don't understand your sudden distrust in me.

[Marmot]

Voted.

[Dom]

Voting for someone doesn't necessarily prove anything. In BoB everyone swore I wasn't on team Webber because of my votes and you know how that turned out

Re:SVS

I think we need to look into other players than those three, so I don't think it is sidetracking.

I voted those three and Dom, because I feel least civvie about Dom outside of three still. I still feel that Golden is still likely a civvie, just wrong like a bunch of us about bass. I've been playing with Golden since his first Mafia game, and he can't fake that tone. I am more paranoid I am wrong about SVS with each passing day, but not enough to abandon that trust. And I still feel ok about MM. Sorsha is also still on my ok list from golden's vouch, but I have to also consider she could be the one he is wrong about.
Everyone else is leaning civvie/neutral/need to revisit

It's hard for me to articulate without rulebreaking. There is some out of thread stuff I need to mull over some.

I don't really know what you want me to say or even why you suspect me, so... okay.

[Turnip Head]

Turnip - What do you make of Dr Dre being on the bad guy team? You were insistent earlier that he was a civ in the first World game, as if by bringing that up, maybe people would leave you alone about it. I appreciate you voting Bass but I think seeing Dre with the baddies is kind of interesting.

I was not "insistent" about anything, you are rewriting history. Here is the post I made on the subject, you'll see it was made in direct response to Golden asking me what alignment I thought the doctor could be. You're acting like I was waving my arms around insisting he's a civvie role; I only brought it up because Golden questioned me, and I made no conclusion one way or the other.

But allow me to be more insistent now. Here are 8 roles I think are more likely to be bad than Dr. Von Drezenstein:

Cursecrafter - Can create items to leave on a location that seem to have a minor positive effect, but may hide a greater negative one.

Misinformation/manipulation.

Grim Shaman - Can use the powers of dead players, one-time use. *secrets*

Confirmed bad. Offensive/discovery role.

Infectious Goblin - Targets a player to poison each night. Players who are poisoned get votes for them multiplied by their poison counters. Poison counters increase each night. Can poison an Item and leave it in a square for a player to find.

Confirmed bad. Offensive/vote manipulation.

Lich of Khastor Keep - Cannot be nightkilled while his phylactery exists. Each night, the Lich may discover the location of one player. Can stop one lynch.

Bad based on name alone. Godfather type role.

Possessing Entity - *secrets*

No way this creep is civvie.

Puppet Master - Can control the night powers of another player in close proximity.

Nightmare Fuel. Manipulation of others.

Scrippleskitz - Starts out each lynch with -3 votes. *secrets*

Negative votes is not typically a civvie power, but *secrets* makes it hard to know for sure.

Trickster - The Trickster can appear as any role to a role check, even after death. Can appear as any player in temp BTSC. The Trickster may leave a message behind in a square twice in the game, and may cast an illusion once in the game, causing a lynched person to seem as though they were the role of his choice.

Manipulation/misinformation.


You might notice somebody missing So as a bonus, here's #9:

Splinter Twin - In addition to moving, Splinter Twin can choose to send his holographic self out two squares. He will enter BTSC with people on the same square as his holographic self, and only his physical form can suffer from targeted effects. His physical form can only been seen from one square away by ranged targeters.

I know we got a baddie result with this role with Floyd. But when I look at this role it doesn't scream baddie to me. It is defensive in nature, able to protect itself from harm. No offensive capabilities whatsoever.

I think Floyd's flip might have been Trickster influenced.

[Turnip Head]

Voted Dom + the three musketeers.

Go ahead and lay it out for me Tranq, start to finish. Me timmer and Matt as teammates. I'd like to get your thought process on the record.

[Draconus]

Derp... Hit submit and didn't want to.

Anyway, if I am correct and if we lynch the player I believe to be the last cabal member that would turn the Gollum into a serial killer. Also, I think the player was able to trick Golden because this player is the trickster so if we do lynch the Gollum or the Trickster who knows what the lynch post will show.

I also know that this is totally side tracking from the Timmer, TH and Matt suspicions that everyone has.... I don't necessarily want to do that but I'm not sure what is more of a priority right now.

Interesting theory... I didn't want to see this either. But, tbh, I've held this possibility in the back of my mind for most of the game. You and Golden have my trust. If you think that is the case, it may be worth going after the Gollum first. It pains me to say this

Still, I think we should go after the other leads first. We, at least know how to avoid the Gollum's kill.

[Draconus]

Voting for someone doesn't necessarily prove anything. In BoB everyone swore I wasn't on team Webber because of my votes and you know how that turned out

Re:SVS

I think we need to look into other players than those three, so I don't think it is sidetracking.

I voted those three and Dom, because I feel least civvie about Dom outside of three still. I still feel that Golden is still likely a civvie, just wrong like a bunch of us about bass. I've been playing with Golden since his first Mafia game, and he can't fake that tone. I am more paranoid I am wrong about SVS with each passing day, but not enough to abandon that trust. And I still feel ok about MM. Sorsha is also still on my ok list from golden's vouch, but I have to also consider she could be the one he is wrong about.
Everyone else is leaning civvie/neutral/need to revisit

It's hard for me to articulate without rulebreaking. There is some out of thread stuff I need to mull over some.

Ditto on so many levels.

[Sorsha]

I only voted for MM because I thought I'd be able to add my other votes later. I'd have also voted for svs and probably TH and Timmer.

Thanks for the vote. I don't understand your sudden distrust in me.

I'm sorry but knowing what I know..... I wish there was a way for you to win with the civs.

Derp... Hit submit and didn't want to.

Anyway, if I am correct and if we lynch the player I believe to be the last cabal member that would turn the Gollum into a serial killer. Also, I think the player was able to trick Golden because this player is the trickster so if we do lynch the Gollum or the Trickster who knows what the lynch post will show.

I also know that this is totally side tracking from the Timmer, TH and Matt suspicions that everyone has.... I don't necessarily want to do that but I'm not sure what is more of a priority right now.

Interesting theory... I didn't want to see this either. But, tbh, I've held this possibility in the back of my mind for most of the game. You and Golden have my trust. If you think that is the case, it may be worth going after the Gollum first. It pains me to say this

Still, I think we should go after the other leads first. We, at least know how to avoid the Gollum's kill.

It pains me too, I think we're going to have to hold it until at least the following lynch anyway. Hopefully you can stay safe until then!

[Draconus]

I feel the same way about MM

And I will do my best. Same goes for you!

[Matt]

Tranq and MM - Can you both tell me why I received your vote last day phase? Thank you.

A lot of you seem to be discussing "inside" things that are going over my head. Apparently this must be part of the exclusion SVS was talking about earlier.

I'll say this, Golden, if you think only one person has tricked you because of Bass being good, well bud, I'm going to add 2 people tricking you to that list because I'm not bad, either. And I only say "tricking" assuming you are civvie.

I have two days off, like I said, I'll be rereading the thread from thanksgiving as well as going over some ISOs.

Golden - Do you have SVS marked as civvie and if so, why?

[Marmot]

I only voted for MM because I thought I'd be able to add my other votes later. I'd have also voted for svs and probably TH and Timmer.

Thanks for the vote. I don't understand your sudden distrust in me.

I'm sorry but knowing what I know..... I wish there was a way for you to win with the civs.

How painfully obscure.

[Matt]

MM - Why did you vote for me?

Also, Golden, looking over my post to you, to avoid confusion, I meant "add one other to that list", not "two". Derp.

[Marmot]

MM - Why did you vote for me?

Also, Golden, looking over my post to you, to avoid confusion, I meant "add one other to that list", not "two". Derp.

Because you voted for me many times.

[fingersplints]

A lot of you seem to be discussing "inside" things that are going over my head. Apparently this must be part of the exclusion SVS was talking about earlier.

I have no idea what the "inside" talk is either, so don't feel too excluded. What I have to think about it something totally unrelated to everything being discussed.

[Matt]

MM - Why did you vote for me?

Also, Golden, looking over my post to you, to avoid confusion, I meant "add one other to that list", not "two". Derp.

Because you voted for me many times.

Lol. Well played, sir.

But besides the whole No U aspect (which btw, I thoroughly enjoy doing myself), any other reason?

Linki - Good to know I'm not the only one.

[Tranq]

[Golden]

Tranq and MM - Can you both tell me why I received your vote last day phase? Thank you.

A lot of you seem to be discussing "inside" things that are going over my head. Apparently this must be part of the exclusion SVS was talking about earlier.

I'll say this, Golden, if you think only one person has tricked you because of Bass being good, well bud, I'm going to add 2 people tricking you to that list because I'm not bad, either. And I only say "tricking" assuming you are civvie.

I have two days off, like I said, I'll be rereading the thread from thanksgiving as well as going over some ISOs.

Golden - Do you have SVS marked as civvie and if so, why?

@Matt - you clearly still haven't figured out my definition of tricking. The only way you are tricking me is if you are the trickster. It's kind of funny that you say you are 'tricking me into thinking you are bad' though, lol.

I did have SVS marked as a civvie, but like I say... someone is tricking me. SVS is an option.

It's also not 'I got vibes from bass he was bad'.

It was 'there is no mathematical way Bass could be good'. And yet he was. Bass was not the one tricking me there. It's someone I believe to be civ doing the tricking.

Do you understand? Because if you can't get to grips with that, we are never going to be talking on the same level.

[Matt]

Hello Tranq. I'm Matt. Why did you vote for me?

Linki - Golden, what are you talking about dude? Like seriously. I never said I was tricking you. I'm saying if you think ONE person tricked you because Bass ended up being good, I'm saying ANOTHER tricked you as well since I am ALSO good.

I didn't trick anyone. I don't even know where you got that from.

[Matt]

Anywho, goin' out for soda and smokes (I'm going to live til I'm 110, that's right), be back in a bit.