Grimm's Fairy Tale Mafia - Day 13

[Rachel Green]

Can you give me an example of this buddying up? You & Queran saying it does not make it so.

Well, it was a feeling I got upon catching up on a lot of posts at once. Both you and Gobnait seem to be actively singling out Bronwyn and Queran while other posters are simply saying, "interesting theory!"

Now, I realize it could mean nothing, after all it also seems that Bronwyn and Queran are "buddying up" somewhat.

This could be nothing more than sharing an opinion on the going-ons in the game.

I mentioned it because it was something that I noticed during my read and thought it might be noteworthy.

All I know for sure is right now I trust no one.

I have never quoted or mentioned Bronwen to the best of my knowledge, nor did i do so with Queran until his ginormous post.

You obviously misnoticed

And here is the post that made me really suspect Ameerah in the first place, more "buddying up". Maybe it is just me, thinking the repeated use of this phrase by the same people is odd? I searched it on this site too, and got 22 hits, but most of those are quoting the same few posts by Ameerah, and then by Queran.

I dunno, I could be totally wrong tree barking, maybe I should just vote for Ameerah and get it over with, lol. But that "buddying up" sounds like a phrase they have been using in BTS, and it got carried into the thread. I may be right (I may be crazy, it just might be a lunatic you're looking for). Dunno.

It feels right though.

*Awaits Crucifixtion*

[Operator]

Bac, if I understand your post correctly, you're suspicious because I was keeping an eye on Mainchin. I urge you to read the following posts which were made right after the one you quoted above. The gist of it is that I had confused Mainchin with Miyuki (both names starting with M) and as soon as I realized my mistake, I took back what I had said about Mainchin, and voted Miyuki instead -- reason for suspicion being the same, except it was not against Mainchin, but Miyuki. Even before I realized that I had their names swapped, I clearly state in the post you quoted that my pings about Mainchin are minor. How does that translate to "trying to cast suspicion on Mainchin?"

I don't know if -- to reinforce your point -- you intentionally missed what happened immediately after the post you have quoted, but here it is:

I have never ever voted for Myuki!

Good sir, I owe you a sincere apology! I confused you with the other M -- Miyuki, who was the one who voted for you, not the other way round! You indeed voted for Jorhan on day 2, and I take back what I mentioned in the previous post.

That is quite alright dear fellow.

Long story short, I am on the border about Mainchin at this point, especially after I got your names mixed up. Suspicious enough to keep an eye on him, but not enough to vote.

Before putting this for Miyuki, whom I voted for that day, not Mainchin.

I am sorry if you explained your vote on day two before, I might have missed it. Why did you think it a good idea to vote for someone who you knew was not going to get lynched? If you thought the case against Jorhan had no merit, why didn't you also try to convince fellow townies of your belief? I am not overly suspicious of you, but I will certainly appreciate if you respond to this little thing.

I also don't know what you mean by this: "Shand also specifically says he would like to plot connections for Mainchin, Carmen & Laine based on Ameerahs post." What connections, I don't understand. I said I had my eyes on all three players. And they were not random pings, I have always given my reasons for every suspicion I have had so far.

I appreciate your call for talking more, and discussing any and all suspicions. I'm not sure if you are irritated by my posts (if so, I once again apologize if I unintentionally sounded rude), or if your suspicions are genuine. If it's the former, I urge you to reconsider your position on me, because I think you are one of the town, and I assure you that your reading of me is wrong. If your suspicions about me are genuine, I'll be happy to keep responding to whatever you have to say.

[Rachel Green]

No, I am just reading posts in isolation, and posts that came up in a specific term search.

[Ned Flanders]

food for thought: Mainchin came off as having an investigative role, after his remark about Laine. I think it was Laine he vouched for. Someone on Rumpel"s team may have wanted him gone, because they thought he may be checking one of them on night 5. I can think of who might have been his obvious choice for checking, but will have to read back a little to see if he mentioned anyone specifically.

Also, I notice that several Gobnait posts were quoted and requoted, on days 2 and 3. This is why I wonder if words in quotes might count.

also, a good thought about Ameerah, I'll review her posts. Deirdre has also caught my eye, so she goes on my recommended reading list too.

[Rachel Green]

My point was the use of that term, Buddying up.

[Ned Flanders]

My point was the use of that term, Buddying up.

Do you mean that it may have been tossed around in a chatroom? Or that rumpel's team may have used it for vote stealing? If you said earlier, then I missed it. I'll go look.

[Ned Flanders]

yes i see. you could be right about that

[Ned Flanders]

Another thought? Today may have been about saving Finnian, taking out an investigator, and saving whoever was likely to be checked on night 5- or none of that.

[Operator]

Bac, do you mean team Rumpel may be using that particular word/phrase to vote anonymously? Maybe it's obvious, but I'm not seeing your point. For what it's worth, I found that four people have used that phrase in the game so far, but since they were spoken on different days I am confused as to what it could mean.

Ameerah: Days 2, 3
Bac: Days 2, 5
Miyuki: Day 4
Queran: Days 4, 5

[Rachel Green]

Those are some good points, too. I think the next day period is a good time to throw up those theories and get talking while we aren't restricted by finding euphemisms for "baddie" or "vote" and can have a real discussion and maybe a productive lynch.

Get some focus and direction going maybe.



@Shand. Miyuki & I used it quoting Queran and Ameerah, I believe.

I thought I was rather clear; it seems like a BTS phrase to me that moved into the thread.

[Rachel Green]

EBWOP: especially as it seems to often be in reference to Gobnait, to him buddying up to me or to Bronwen or whoever. It just seems a very odd coincidence, that separate people use that same term to refer to the relations in the thread of a specific person.

Could be straw clutching, or not. It just struck me when I was rereading Mainchins posts

Now bed, long family day tomorrow

[Snapshot]

I see we now know why we had two deaths on night 2...

[Snapshot]

Oh, and I see Mainchin's Gnome is up as well. Hmm, his role doesn't sound like one that could have checked Laine, in an alignment sense, so he must have had some other reason for trusting him. Either way, a civ says trust, I trust, but it's still a bit odd.

Now that I finally have a bit of free time, I'll elaborate on some things I've been unable to elaborate on. the last few days my work schedule has been atrocious so my posts have had to be brief and to the point. First, my vote for Jorhan. The logic on it was too good not to vote him. Vote orders, and lynch momentum swings are typically better able to cough up baddies then day 1 hunches, which is what my Laine case was. I was on break and jumped on it, it seemed very plausible and likely to hit a baddie.

Next, Carmen. Her role hint seems pretty blatant, which I'm not fond of tbh. But whatever. If the hint was true, then she either had a lynch deflection and it went to Bac, or Bac is lying about his end, and Carmen had a lynch save at the least. Bac lying at that point seems odd to me so I assume he told the truth (though that doesn't make him civ). So lots of prizes have apparently gone out in the game, so Carmen could I suppose have been awarded a lynch deflection. It's hard for me to know because I haven't personally won any major prize in the game, so I don't really know whether something as awesome as a lynch deflection has been awards or not. My gut tells me that this is NOT what happened.

My gut tells me that Carmen dodged that lynch for a different reason. We've now got three bad roles with secrets. Odds are one of them at LEAST has or had a way to dodge death the first time. So I still believe Carmen to be bad.

However, since of those three roles that could have dodged death potentially, two are not part of the baddie team, so that means that if Carmen is bad, Finnian could be anything, really. Carmen may have teammates helping her by trying to lynch him, or she may not, which means he could be bad.

[Snapshot]

As to Finnian, I admit to having little to no clue about the specifics of the case against him. I still haven't fully read back, andI don't yet know why people thought he was being saved, but it certainly seems that he dodged death somehow.

And finally, I've read back enough to see my name being thrown out as a possible baddie. I've ben busy and have posted when I can and remained as current as I could. If people want to investigate me I can only say go for it, you'll see I'm a civ. But to point a finger at me, when you should be able to see that I've been trying to stay current and suggest possible baddies as much as possible, is just weak. It reeks of deflection, tbh. I mean please, go ahead and make a case and I'll defend against it, but just saying I've been quiet is lame since, you know, some of us have time-intensive jobs.

[Snapshot]

Okay, I just back through Finnian's posts and it's pretty clear to me why people voted him, lol. He's coasted through the game in an aloof, whatever kind of way (I wonder if I could guess this player's identity lol?) and even in the last day, only really halfheartedly suggested some suspicions in repsonse to other's posts. At no point has Finnian actually proactively made a case against anyone. And even his "I'm about to die good luck civs" post reeks of BS.

If Carmen is bad, and Finnian is good, he's made it easy for the baddies to deflect onto him. But I don't think he's good. If anything, I'd say this is a baddie vs an SK indy or something along those lines. I'm happy to lynch either one today. What I wonder about also is, if Finnian is a baddie, let's say The Nixie, and the secret is that he was going to survive the first attempt on his life but in return, there would be no night phase when it happened, it might explain why suddenly yesterday there were people talking about low posters. Baddie teammates would have been preparing for the next day, knowing that that day they would not be able to hide behind Rumple.

the point being, if we lynch Finnian and he's the Nixie, I'll be strongly eyeing every single person who suddenly had "new ideas" yesterday as his teammates. In fact, I'd say that puts him aaead of Carmen on my personal lynch list for today.

[Larry David]

Okay, I just back through Finnian's posts and it's pretty clear to me why people voted him, lol. He's coasted through the game in an aloof, whatever kind of way (I wonder if I could guess this player's identity lol?) and even in the last day, only really halfheartedly suggested some suspicions in repsonse to other's posts. At no point has Finnian actually proactively made a case against anyone. And even his "I'm about to die good luck civs" post reeks of BS.

You act like this behaviour is typical of the identity you assume me as, then say I'm bad for it. Why is that?

[Snapshot]

To be clear, I'm basing my opinion of you on your content-less posts, not my hunch as to your identity. But when the game is over, I can't wait to see if I'm right

[Larry David]

Okie dokie.

[Prisoner 509378]

I apologize for not participating much today; work has been brutal, and I haven't been able to give the game as much time as it deserves. I've read through and enjoyed the eloquent, well-thought out recent posts. Unfortunately, and this could also have to do with my shattered confidence -- I really believed Jorhan would flip bad -- I'm still not getting any strong pings. What also makes my hands a bit shaky as I move it towards the vote button is Bac's idea that there may be another secret baddie team lurking. If this is correct, then our situation looks very bleak indeed, and we most certainly need to choose our target wisely today.

Right now, I'm fairly certain that Gobnait is a townie (else, he's the best baddie I have ever played against), and I'm feeling good about Bac as well. Despite the Jorhan debacle, I still feel uneasy about Queran, but that may just be because of his style. His eloquence and verbosity I appreciate more than anyone else's in the game, and at the same time, it's these same qualities that also make me a bit apprehensive about his agenda. I certainly don't have anything concrete against him though, and while I don't feel comfortable voting for him today, my eyes are ever set on him.

Mainchin - Table switcher. First to propose the idea that there is at least one mafia at each table and that the hosts may have decreed that. Says he will likely randomize Day 1, then ultimately decides to vote for a low poster, Gaerwen. He defends Laine here when Laine began taking heat for his posts and vote Day 1. He has a couple of posts defending Gobnait (maybe buddying up to him??). And I was somewhat bothered by his post here. At the end he says he will try to find some time to read back and form some opinions of his own, but barring that will vote for "the most satisfactory argument from my esteemed fellow creatures." To me this reads like a nice little set-up for being able to place the blame on someone else's case if a civvie gets lynched again.

Thank you for the synopses Ameerah, that helped me a lot. I've my eyes on all the three players you mention (Mainchin, Laine, and Carmen). Of the three, I find Mainchin the most interesting at this point, especially coupled with the point that Rhinfrew brought up earlier. Mainchin voted for Miyuki at a point when Jorhan was all but sure to be lynched. This could be a simple baddie tactic to stay out of trouble, knowing (as only a baddie can know) that the town would come after the Jorhan-voters when, eventually, it would be revealed that Jorhan was good. This is a minor ping, however, and truth be told, I'm almost as lost today as I was on day 1. I do have to vote soon because I don't know if I will be able to get on the internet before the poll closes. I will give it another hour or so, and hopefully a second read will bring something to my attention that I might have missed in my first. Failing that, I'm leaning towards a Mainchin vote today.

I have never ever voted for Myuki!

I found this while rereading mainchin. I find it interesting. Ameerah and Shand both are kind of (looking at it in retrospect) trying to cast suspicion against Mainchin. I also find it WAAAAAY interesting that Ameerah mentions someone buddying up to Gobnait. Buddying up is not the totally commonest expression, in Mafia. I did a search of it at RM and came up with 66 matches. Second time this game I see someone discussing "buddying up" in relation to Gobnait.

Personally I have no connection to Gobnait, but a few people seem realllly invested in trying to plot connections for him. Shand also specifically says he would like to plot connections for Mainchin, Carmen & Laine based on Ameerahs post. Now, Mainchin was a civvie. My initial suspicion of Laine was based on Jorhan being bad, which he was not. A lot of people, including me, seem to see potential civ credentials in Carmen.

This post is one of theose things that make you go hmmmm, as far as I am concerned.

Today we have a chance to have a lynch free of fear of talking and free of Rumpys manipulation. We really need to talk a lot today, and get our cards and suspicions on the table.

Thank you for this!

Bac, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm "buddying up" to you. When I'm trying to decide whether what a player says is true, I base my judgment on 2 things: 1) whether their theory makes sense or I can trust any info they're putting out, and 2) whether I trust your motives. Since, after your insanification and subsequent kill attempt you mentioned, I believe you are civ, for you I only have to look at #1 when reading your statements. This makes me more likely to trust you. However, I hope other players will judge my statements on their own merits when deciding whether I am civ, regardless of whose opinions I ask for.

I think it also bears mentioning that you were originally accused of buddying up to me, by Queran, a few days ago.

I'm very convinced that there is in fact a plot to create connections for me that I do not have, as you said, and I believe it's pretty clear that Queran is leading it. I'll pull the quote if anyone needs me to, but Queran used this tactic yesterday with Mainchin when he said that if Carmen flipped bad he also believed Mainchin would. The fact that Ameerah and Queran have used the same terms, your silencing after mentioning Ameerah, and her mentioning a Carmen and Laine connection, makes me think that Ameerah likely does not have civ interests at heart either. I can't be sure, but I think Queran and Ameerah believed that Carmen would flip bad, and then saw the opportunity to secure a civ lynch the next day by linking her to Mainchin and Laine.

[Prisoner 509378]

What I wonder about also is, if Finnian is a baddie, let's say The Nixie, and the secret is that he was going to survive the first attempt on his life but in return, there would be no night phase when it happened, it might explain why suddenly yesterday there were people talking about low posters. Baddie teammates would have been preparing for the next day, knowing that that day they would not be able to hide behind Rumple.

the point being, if we lynch Finnian and he's the Nixie, I'll be strongly eyeing every single person who suddenly had "new ideas" yesterday as his teammates. In fact, I'd say that puts him aaead of Carmen on my personal lynch list for today.

This analysis seems very, very insightful. Glad to hear your thoughts on FInnian, but I think the Nixie stuff you mentioned is even more valuable.

I read the Nixie Grimm tale, and in it the Nixie kidnaps a prince into her underwater lair. When a princess comes to save him she throws gold into the water, and the prince pops out of the water. Then the Nixie gets mad because she was tricked and tries to drown them.

My point being, it seems extremely plausible to me that the Nixie's power would be getting something of value (survival) in exchange for giving something (another Day period). It's far from certain, but I very much like the theory.

In summary, I think at least 3 and probably all 4 of the following 4 are bad (in alphabetical order): Ameerah, Carmen, Finnian, and Queran. I personally would be happy to vote any of the 4 today, but I think we should discuss all 4 heavily over the next day so we can avoid talking too much when Rumplestiltskin's power come back into play. What are others' opinions of these players?

Also, maybe if we say Rumplestiltskin a whole bunch he'll just go away like in the story.

[Rachel Green]

Gob, I remember, after reading that post last night of Mainchins, quoting me quoting Ameerah, I recall what led up to it. I thought Ameerah & Queran were in league with Jorhan, but when Jorhan turned up civ it seemed less plausible. I just was a bit perplexed by you wanting my opinion on things when, other than voting for a civvie twice, and surviving a lynch while Japanified, I don't see that I have said much that was any good, lol. I reread my own posts to see to whom I could have been a threat, and removing Jorhan from the picture, I came up blank, with the exception of Ameerah, and the possible Buddy Up Connection. Tenuous perhaps, but it still feels like a BTS thing that leaked into the thread, especially when the people using it are referring to the same people.

And I personally think of two nights/no days as a civvie thing, not a baddie thing. I understand the survival/benefit concept, but this would seriously hurt the baddie team by taking away all night powers, especially Rumps word. I think it would be TOO harmful to the baddies for the hosts to use it in this context. I don't see it being a baddie thing, I see it being a civvie thing. Maybe they tried to kill the wrong person the prior night or something like that. I HAVE seen that done before, and it is a powerful thing, a civvie role that TRIES to draw NKs in order to produce this very effect.

Ameerah, Finian and Queran, I could believe are bad. I am still not sure about Carmen. Like I said, some of the things she said sounded very civ to me (not role hinty stuff); then again, some of the stuff she said also sounded kinda suspicious. Personally I would rather leave her until another night has passed and see if that hint has any value to the person it was (potentially, if it was a hint) aimed at..

[Saito]

And I personally think of two nights/no days as a civvie thing, not a baddie thing. I understand the survival/benefit concept, but this would seriously hurt the baddie team by taking away all night powers, especially Rumps word. I think it would be TOO harmful to the baddies for the hosts to use it in this context. I don't see it being a baddie thing, I see it being a civvie thing. Maybe they tried to kill the wrong person the prior night or something like that. I HAVE seen that done before, and it is a powerful thing, a civvie role that TRIES to draw NKs in order to produce this very effect.

Bac, I'm wondering if you don't mean two days/no night is a civv thing instead of two nights/no days. Two days/no nights is definitely a civv thing as the nights are when the mafia has its chance to kill and theoretically, the days are for the civvs to kill through lynching.

I have not caught on to the suspicion about Ameerah so I will be going back and reading what people have said about her and what she has said. I'm trying to wrap my head around the Finnian thing but I keep coming back to why a baddie team would allow him to not vote thus not be able to use his powers. I think my problem is I don't really understand the argument for him being bad. He was aloof, yes. He didn't vote, yes. But how is that making everyone so sure he is a baddie? Maybe someone will help me out and explain that and I could get comfortable with a vote for him. And yes, I have a suspicion as to who he is as well though I wont know till the end. I still suspect Carmen though I do understand what someone said about giving it a night period and seeing if what should happen does from the hint (I am not at all convinced it is a hint though).

Ok, I have busy days today and tomorrow (my birthday!) but i will be in here to stay caught up and add any thoughts I can.

[Phoebe Buffay]

I apologize for not participating much today; work has been brutal, and I haven't been able to give the game as much time as it deserves. I've read through and enjoyed the eloquent, well-thought out recent posts. Unfortunately, and this could also have to do with my shattered confidence -- I really believed Jorhan would flip bad -- I'm still not getting any strong pings. What also makes my hands a bit shaky as I move it towards the vote button is Bac's idea that there may be another secret baddie team lurking. If this is correct, then our situation looks very bleak indeed, and we most certainly need to choose our target wisely today.

Right now, I'm fairly certain that Gobnait is a townie (else, he's the best baddie I have ever played against), and I'm feeling good about Bac as well. Despite the Jorhan debacle, I still feel uneasy about Queran, but that may just be because of his style. His eloquence and verbosity I appreciate more than anyone else's in the game, and at the same time, it's these same qualities that also make me a bit apprehensive about his agenda. I certainly don't have anything concrete against him though, and while I don't feel comfortable voting for him today, my eyes are ever set on him.

Mainchin - Table switcher. First to propose the idea that there is at least one mafia at each table and that the hosts may have decreed that. Says he will likely randomize Day 1, then ultimately decides to vote for a low poster, Gaerwen. He defends Laine here when Laine began taking heat for his posts and vote Day 1. He has a couple of posts defending Gobnait (maybe buddying up to him??). And I was somewhat bothered by his post here. At the end he says he will try to find some time to read back and form some opinions of his own, but barring that will vote for "the most satisfactory argument from my esteemed fellow creatures." To me this reads like a nice little set-up for being able to place the blame on someone else's case if a civvie gets lynched again.

Thank you for the synopses Ameerah, that helped me a lot. I've my eyes on all the three players you mention (Mainchin, Laine, and Carmen). Of the three, I find Mainchin the most interesting at this point, especially coupled with the point that Rhinfrew brought up earlier. Mainchin voted for Miyuki at a point when Jorhan was all but sure to be lynched. This could be a simple baddie tactic to stay out of trouble, knowing (as only a baddie can know) that the town would come after the Jorhan-voters when, eventually, it would be revealed that Jorhan was good. This is a minor ping, however, and truth be told, I'm almost as lost today as I was on day 1. I do have to vote soon because I don't know if I will be able to get on the internet before the poll closes. I will give it another hour or so, and hopefully a second read will bring something to my attention that I might have missed in my first. Failing that, I'm leaning towards a Mainchin vote today.

I have never ever voted for Myuki!

I found this while rereading mainchin. I find it interesting. Ameerah and Shand both are kind of (looking at it in retrospect) trying to cast suspicion against Mainchin. I also find it WAAAAAY interesting that Ameerah mentions someone buddying up to Gobnait. Buddying up is not the totally commonest expression, in Mafia. I did a search of it at RM and came up with 66 matches. Second time this game I see someone discussing "buddying up" in relation to Gobnait.

Personally I have no connection to Gobnait, but a few people seem realllly invested in trying to plot connections for him. Shand also specifically says he would like to plot connections for Mainchin, Carmen & Laine based on Ameerahs post. Now, Mainchin was a civvie. My initial suspicion of Laine was based on Jorhan being bad, which he was not. A lot of people, including me, seem to see potential civ credentials in Carmen.

This post is one of theose things that make you go hmmmm, as far as I am concerned.

Today we have a chance to have a lynch free of fear of talking and free of Rumpys manipulation. We really need to talk a lot today, and get our cards and suspicions on the table.

Bac, you are going to be mightily disappointed if you succeed in getting me lynched because I'm not the evil you've convinced yourself I am. Seriously, I'm not, and I think you've seriously tunnel-visioned yourself into thinking otherwise. You are harping on something I said on Day 2 when I was just beginning to get my head into the game. And I will repeat, since then I haven't mentioned suspecting you since.

You also appear to be trying to connect me to Shand and others now.

Shand, give me a hand here. The only way Shand and I could be in cahoots with one another is if we're civvie who happen to have shared an idea or two in the thread.

I'm sorry I suspected you on Day 2, Bac. Clearly I opened a giant can of worms with that. But again, on Day 3, I really began to read the thread and never mentioned suspecting you again. Think about that some.

Yes, I suspected Mainchin somewhat, and Laine too. But in the same post where I made my comments about those two, I also made them about Carmen. And I've been pretty much going after her ever since.

[Rachel Green]

LOL Carmen, yeah, I mean two days, what is happening now, yeah. ha ha

And players are individuals, I am sure no baddie team would LIKE that, but I am not sure how they will "allow" or "not allow" anything. I have been on teams with players that showed up just often enough that the host would not replace them, and it was infuriating. It is a point to consider, but I feel that him being one vote apart from Carmen is a statistical dead heat in a game with such vast manipulation, plus he did in fact live clearly the next lynch. Although it could be that they siphoned a few votes off both players, and did away with whomever they wanted for their own reasons, and neither Finian nor Carmen are bad.



Linki: I will read that in a few, making breakfast.

[Rachel Green]

I apologize for not participating much today; work has been brutal, and I haven't been able to give the game as much time as it deserves. I've read through and enjoyed the eloquent, well-thought out recent posts. Unfortunately, and this could also have to do with my shattered confidence -- I really believed Jorhan would flip bad -- I'm still not getting any strong pings. What also makes my hands a bit shaky as I move it towards the vote button is Bac's idea that there may be another secret baddie team lurking. If this is correct, then our situation looks very bleak indeed, and we most certainly need to choose our target wisely today.

Right now, I'm fairly certain that Gobnait is a townie (else, he's the best baddie I have ever played against), and I'm feeling good about Bac as well. Despite the Jorhan debacle, I still feel uneasy about Queran, but that may just be because of his style. His eloquence and verbosity I appreciate more than anyone else's in the game, and at the same time, it's these same qualities that also make me a bit apprehensive about his agenda. I certainly don't have anything concrete against him though, and while I don't feel comfortable voting for him today, my eyes are ever set on him.

Mainchin - Table switcher. First to propose the idea that there is at least one mafia at each table and that the hosts may have decreed that. Says he will likely randomize Day 1, then ultimately decides to vote for a low poster, Gaerwen. He defends Laine here when Laine began taking heat for his posts and vote Day 1. He has a couple of posts defending Gobnait (maybe buddying up to him??). And I was somewhat bothered by his post here. At the end he says he will try to find some time to read back and form some opinions of his own, but barring that will vote for "the most satisfactory argument from my esteemed fellow creatures." To me this reads like a nice little set-up for being able to place the blame on someone else's case if a civvie gets lynched again.

Thank you for the synopses Ameerah, that helped me a lot. I've my eyes on all the three players you mention (Mainchin, Laine, and Carmen). Of the three, I find Mainchin the most interesting at this point, especially coupled with the point that Rhinfrew brought up earlier. Mainchin voted for Miyuki at a point when Jorhan was all but sure to be lynched. This could be a simple baddie tactic to stay out of trouble, knowing (as only a baddie can know) that the town would come after the Jorhan-voters when, eventually, it would be revealed that Jorhan was good. This is a minor ping, however, and truth be told, I'm almost as lost today as I was on day 1. I do have to vote soon because I don't know if I will be able to get on the internet before the poll closes. I will give it another hour or so, and hopefully a second read will bring something to my attention that I might have missed in my first. Failing that, I'm leaning towards a Mainchin vote today.

I have never ever voted for Myuki!

I found this while rereading mainchin. I find it interesting. Ameerah and Shand both are kind of (looking at it in retrospect) trying to cast suspicion against Mainchin. I also find it WAAAAAY interesting that Ameerah mentions someone buddying up to Gobnait. Buddying up is not the totally commonest expression, in Mafia. I did a search of it at RM and came up with 66 matches. Second time this game I see someone discussing "buddying up" in relation to Gobnait.

Personally I have no connection to Gobnait, but a few people seem realllly invested in trying to plot connections for him. Shand also specifically says he would like to plot connections for Mainchin, Carmen & Laine based on Ameerahs post. Now, Mainchin was a civvie. My initial suspicion of Laine was based on Jorhan being bad, which he was not. A lot of people, including me, seem to see potential civ credentials in Carmen.

This post is one of theose things that make you go hmmmm, as far as I am concerned.

Today we have a chance to have a lynch free of fear of talking and free of Rumpys manipulation. We really need to talk a lot today, and get our cards and suspicions on the table.

Bac, you are going to be mightily disappointed if you succeed in getting me lynched because I'm not the evil you've convinced yourself I am. Seriously, I'm not, and I think you've seriously tunnel-visioned yourself into thinking otherwise. You are harping on something I said on Day 2 when I was just beginning to get my head into the game. And I will repeat, since then I haven't mentioned suspecting you since.

You also appear to be trying to connect me to Shand and others now.

Shand, give me a hand here. The only way Shand and I could be in cahoots with one another is if we're civvie who happen to have shared an idea or two in the thread.

I'm sorry I suspected you on Day 2, Bac. Clearly I opened a giant can of worms with that. But again, on Day 3, I really began to read the thread and never mentioned suspecting you again. Think about that some.

Yes, I suspected Mainchin somewhat, and Laine too. But in the same post where I made my comments about those two, I also made them about Carmen. And I've been pretty much going after her ever since.

This has zero to do with suspecting me, it has everthing to do with thread association. In my mind, you are clearly associated with specific people. You can try to call it a No U if you like, but it isn't one. I have suspected you ever since you said I did something and said something, and when called on it, you waffled, and produced nothing, as I never said or did what you implied I did. Making things up about people is a baddie thing, and that is how I viewed what you did. I don't care if you suspected me, I care that you made stuff up about me. I would have done the same had I thought you were making something up about anyone, not just me. Like Shand trying to single out one person in a sea of Finian voters. It feels bad to me.

Shand never did anything to me, or even got on my radar in any way, until I reread that post where he quoted you, both trying to get rid of Mainchin who was inexplicably lynched without any votes.

Gee whoever lynched Mainchin wanted him dead, huh?

That whole thing has nothing to do with your opinion of me. It's your own words and actions.

Now really, gotta go, family calls

[Rachel Green]

EBWOP; re this:

I have suspected you ever since you said I did something and said something, and when called on it, you waffled, and produced nothing, as I never said or did what you implied I did.

This thing you did here, when you came into the thread and said that I had been involved in a discussion of whomever, when I wasn't involved in it at all, although I had had words on a totally different topic with Queran (I believe that is who I was allegedly attacking according to you) read exactly like a chatroom synopsis to me.

Ameerah: Whats up?

Evil teammate: Well X,Y,Z & Bac are all buddying up and attacking me over *insert reason here*

Ameerah posts: Hey Bac, you are buddying up to X, Y & Z attacking Evil Teammate over *Inserted reason*!

When the case is, I was not involved in that conversation.

And thats why I suspect you, tbh. Now that I have really thought it out.

[Phoebe Buffay]

I didn't make up things about you. I very clearly said in that original post that I was posting my thoughts as they came to me from reading. I was clearly wrong, and I dropped it.

You are wrong here. But maybe the only way you'll be convinced is if you get me lynched. Just trust me when I say, if that happens, you will realize why I'm ripping my hair out.

[Rachel Green]

OK, I am willing to take that last post in mind, Ameerah.

OK, maybe I am wrong. I will not vote for you today then. Perhaps if more light were shed on this situation, perhaps we could actually see each other for once, and what better time for than than when there is no night.

Tell me, do you have any theories on why there was no night? And what do YOU think of Finian, Queran, Gob, et al?

[Rachel Green]

And really, gotta go, bye

[Spooky Ghost]

RIP Mainchin.

So if Rumpel was involved in Mainchin's demise, then the word must have been said quite a lot since Finnian had accrued a large number of votes... That's disheartening.

RIPIYWG Mainchin and I was leaning good for you though who knows.

Yes, I'm afraid we're going to have to be super careful with our words. I have tried but i need to try harder and change synonyms every day. As you say, it had to be a lot of us who said the word in this last day period.

I looked back at my "castle" word - it was after we had to pick between castle, grandma's house and the woods. I was making a point to Gobsuite about my kidding about wine at the castle. I looked at Rhinfrew's usage too and it was equally benign in my opinion. I didn't see anyone else who used it on day 2 but maybe i missed someone. I'd encourage everybody to take a look at the posts. Just search for castle under advanced search for current job.

I'm still reading up on the thread, but wanted to stop and mention how much this post of Bronwyn's pings me before I forget.

Ok, more reading.

[Young Lady]

I apologize for not participating much today; work has been brutal, and I haven't been able to give the game as much time as it deserves. I've read through and enjoyed the eloquent, well-thought out recent posts. Unfortunately, and this could also have to do with my shattered confidence -- I really believed Jorhan would flip bad -- I'm still not getting any strong pings. What also makes my hands a bit shaky as I move it towards the vote button is Bac's idea that there may be another secret baddie team lurking. If this is correct, then our situation looks very bleak indeed, and we most certainly need to choose our target wisely today.

Right now, I'm fairly certain that Gobnait is a townie (else, he's the best baddie I have ever played against), and I'm feeling good about Bac as well. Despite the Jorhan debacle, I still feel uneasy about Queran, but that may just be because of his style. His eloquence and verbosity I appreciate more than anyone else's in the game, and at the same time, it's these same qualities that also make me a bit apprehensive about his agenda. I certainly don't have anything concrete against him though, and while I don't feel comfortable voting for him today, my eyes are ever set on him.

Mainchin - Table switcher. First to propose the idea that there is at least one mafia at each table and that the hosts may have decreed that. Says he will likely randomize Day 1, then ultimately decides to vote for a low poster, Gaerwen. He defends Laine here when Laine began taking heat for his posts and vote Day 1. He has a couple of posts defending Gobnait (maybe buddying up to him??). And I was somewhat bothered by his post here. At the end he says he will try to find some time to read back and form some opinions of his own, but barring that will vote for "the most satisfactory argument from my esteemed fellow creatures." To me this reads like a nice little set-up for being able to place the blame on someone else's case if a civvie gets lynched again.

Thank you for the synopses Ameerah, that helped me a lot. I've my eyes on all the three players you mention (Mainchin, Laine, and Carmen). Of the three, I find Mainchin the most interesting at this point, especially coupled with the point that Rhinfrew brought up earlier. Mainchin voted for Miyuki at a point when Jorhan was all but sure to be lynched. This could be a simple baddie tactic to stay out of trouble, knowing (as only a baddie can know) that the town would come after the Jorhan-voters when, eventually, it would be revealed that Jorhan was good. This is a minor ping, however, and truth be told, I'm almost as lost today as I was on day 1. I do have to vote soon because I don't know if I will be able to get on the internet before the poll closes. I will give it another hour or so, and hopefully a second read will bring something to my attention that I might have missed in my first. Failing that, I'm leaning towards a Mainchin vote today.

I have never ever voted for Myuki!

I found this while rereading mainchin. I find it interesting. Ameerah and Shand both are kind of (looking at it in retrospect) trying to cast suspicion against Mainchin. I also find it WAAAAAY interesting that Ameerah mentions someone buddying up to Gobnait. Buddying up is not the totally commonest expression, in Mafia. I did a search of it at RM and came up with 66 matches. Second time this game I see someone discussing "buddying up" in relation to Gobnait.

Personally I have no connection to Gobnait, but a few people seem realllly invested in trying to plot connections for him. Shand also specifically says he would like to plot connections for Mainchin, Carmen & Laine based on Ameerahs post. Now, Mainchin was a civvie. My initial suspicion of Laine was based on Jorhan being bad, which he was not. A lot of people, including me, seem to see potential civ credentials in Carmen.

This post is one of theose things that make you go hmmmm, as far as I am concerned.

Today we have a chance to have a lynch free of fear of talking and free of Rumpys manipulation. We really need to talk a lot today, and get our cards and suspicions on the table.

Thank you for this!

Bac, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm "buddying up" to you. When I'm trying to decide whether what a player says is true, I base my judgment on 2 things: 1) whether their theory makes sense or I can trust any info they're putting out, and 2) whether I trust your motives. Since, after your insanification and subsequent kill attempt you mentioned, I believe you are civ, for you I only have to look at #1 when reading your statements. This makes me more likely to trust you. However, I hope other players will judge my statements on their own merits when deciding whether I am civ, regardless of whose opinions I ask for.

I think it also bears mentioning that you were originally accused of buddying up to me, by Queran, a few days ago.

I'm very convinced that there is in fact a plot to create connections for me that I do not have, as you said, and I believe it's pretty clear that Queran is leading it. I'll pull the quote if anyone needs me to, but Queran used this tactic yesterday with Mainchin when he said that if Carmen flipped bad he also believed Mainchin would. The fact that Ameerah and Queran have used the same terms, your silencing after mentioning Ameerah, and her mentioning a Carmen and Laine connection, makes me think that Ameerah likely does not have civ interests at heart either. I can't be sure, but I think Queran and Ameerah believed that Carmen would flip bad, and then saw the opportunity to secure a civ lynch the next day by linking her to Mainchin and Laine.

Oh sweet Don Cheadle-Kracken, we offer you this Irony in hopes that it quenches your everlasting thirst.

[Young Lady]

To address that in a more serious manner, I use the phrase "buddying up" very often in games I see it happen. I'm surprised Bac's research pulled out very little use of the phrase, as I sort of use it by second nature when I see it. Maybe I should elaborate on what I mean:

It seems to me, personally, and again I could be wrong, that Gobnait the Gorgeous, She Without Mercy, The Ironic Giant, Don Cheadle-Krackens Favorite Daughter, has repeatedly and consistently used Bac's posts as springboards, crutches, whatever analogy you want to use here. Trusting someone is great, but putting so much stock in one player is, for lack of a couple of better words, suspicious and creepy.

[Spooky Ghost]

And I personally think of two nights/no days as a civvie thing, not a baddie thing. I understand the survival/benefit concept, but this would seriously hurt the baddie team by taking away all night powers, especially Rumps word. I think it would be TOO harmful to the baddies for the hosts to use it in this context. I don't see it being a baddie thing, I see it being a civvie thing. Maybe they tried to kill the wrong person the prior night or something like that. I HAVE seen that done before, and it is a powerful thing, a civvie role that TRIES to draw NKs in order to produce this very effect.

Bac, I'm wondering if you don't mean two days/no night is a civv thing instead of two nights/no days. Two days/no nights is definitely a civv thing as the nights are when the mafia has its chance to kill and theoretically, the days are for the civvs to kill through lynching.

I have not caught on to the suspicion about Ameerah so I will be going back and reading what people have said about her and what she has said. I'm trying to wrap my head around the Finnian thing but I keep coming back to why a baddie team would allow him to not vote thus not be able to use his powers. I think my problem is I don't really understand the argument for him being bad. He was aloof, yes. He didn't vote, yes. But how is that making everyone so sure he is a baddie? Maybe someone will help me out and explain that and I could get comfortable with a vote for him. And yes, I have a suspicion as to who he is as well though I wont know till the end. I still suspect Carmen though I do understand what someone said about giving it a night period and seeing if what should happen does from the hint (I am not at all convinced it is a hint though).

Ok, I have busy days today and tomorrow (my birthday!) but i will be in here to stay caught up and add any thoughts I can.

This one of Bronwyn's pings me too. I may end up doing a reread here.

As of now, I'm still on board with Finian, but I think this may be an area worthy of a little investigating too.

[Phoebe Buffay]

OK, I am willing to take that last post in mind, Ameerah.

OK, maybe I am wrong. I will not vote for you today then. Perhaps if more light were shed on this situation, perhaps we could actually see each other for once, and what better time for than than when there is no night.

Tell me, do you have any theories on why there was no night? And what do YOU think of Finian, Queran, Gob, et al?

My best guess as to why we're having back-to-back days is due to a role-related event. With there being so many secrets in this game, that's what I'm thinking.

I feel like Finnian is an enigma. Not voting is really not civvie behavior and coupled with his attitude about the voting, I haven't gotten good vibes. But on the flipside of things, I'd think if he had evil companions, they'd be encouraging him to vote so as to not draw so much attention to himself. Granted, maybe he has no active night power, or maybe there are secrets involved. So yeah, Finnian is a puzzle to me.

Queran has been sharing a lot of similar thoughts to me. So part of me wants to trust her (him?). Then there's Gobnait. The two of them have been at each other's throats since pretty early on. After reading Gobnait's posts on back on Day 3, I was leaning civvie for him. But I'm not sure.

And I know you didn't ask me about Carmen, but I wanted to re-explain my hesitation about her. The reason many chose to give her a pass during the last day phase is because of her supposed role hints. But we don't know for sure that those were role hints. Maybe it was just a coincidence. I still can't let go the fact that she survived the Day 3 lynch and we haven't come up with a civvie explanation for why. That being said, it would royally suck if we lynch her and found out those were real role hints. So yeah...ugh.

[Young Lady]

The Illustrious Me is an Illustrious He.

[Saito]

And I personally think of two nights/no days as a civvie thing, not a baddie thing. I understand the survival/benefit concept, but this would seriously hurt the baddie team by taking away all night powers, especially Rumps word. I think it would be TOO harmful to the baddies for the hosts to use it in this context. I don't see it being a baddie thing, I see it being a civvie thing. Maybe they tried to kill the wrong person the prior night or something like that. I HAVE seen that done before, and it is a powerful thing, a civvie role that TRIES to draw NKs in order to produce this very effect.

Bac, I'm wondering if you don't mean two days/no night is a civv thing instead of two nights/no days. Two days/no nights is definitely a civv thing as the nights are when the mafia has its chance to kill and theoretically, the days are for the civvs to kill through lynching.

I have not caught on to the suspicion about Ameerah so I will be going back and reading what people have said about her and what she has said. I'm trying to wrap my head around the Finnian thing but I keep coming back to why a baddie team would allow him to not vote thus not be able to use his powers. I think my problem is I don't really understand the argument for him being bad. He was aloof, yes. He didn't vote, yes. But how is that making everyone so sure he is a baddie? Maybe someone will help me out and explain that and I could get comfortable with a vote for him. And yes, I have a suspicion as to who he is as well though I wont know till the end. I still suspect Carmen though I do understand what someone said about giving it a night period and seeing if what should happen does from the hint (I am not at all convinced it is a hint though).

Ok, I have busy days today and tomorrow (my birthday!) but i will be in here to stay caught up and add any thoughts I can.

This one of Bronwyn's pings me too. I may end up doing a reread here.

As of now, I'm still on board with Finian, but I think this may be an area worthy of a little investigating too.

Izett, you have said two of my posts pinged you. I can't answer you unless you tell me why on each post. I agree, you should re-read me.

[Operator]

Bac, I truly do admire your persistence and your confidence in your theories. Fact of the matter is, at this point in the game, your voice counts for a lot in this thread. Many people -- me included -- seem to be putting you down as a townie for now (though with all the secret stuff seemingly happening in the background, I am no longer as certain about you as I was before), and I fear that what you say may lead to a civilian getting lynched. Might I, in all my humbleness and in absolute good faith, request that you exercise a bit more caution when propounding your theories, especially when there's no factual basis for them. The case you make against Ameerah, it seems to me, is merely a collection of verbalized gut feelings. Gut feelings are extremely tempting, and I know from my own experience how overwhelming they can become. Gut feelings, also can be completely and utterly wrong. I, for one, don't know what Ameerah's affiliation is, but so far, I haven't gotten any baddie vibe from her.

[Snapshot]

And I personally think of two nights/no days as a civvie thing, not a baddie thing. I understand the survival/benefit concept, but this would seriously hurt the baddie team by taking away all night powers, especially Rumps word. I think it would be TOO harmful to the baddies for the hosts to use it in this context. I don't see it being a baddie thing, I see it being a civvie thing. Maybe they tried to kill the wrong person the prior night or something like that. I HAVE seen that done before, and it is a powerful thing, a civvie role that TRIES to draw NKs in order to produce this very effect.

Two days/no night is a help to the civs, which is why I suspect it was triggered by something that happened to a bad role. It's a balancing thing. Here, you baddie, you get to protect yourself from death, but the flipside is you lose a night.

People's posts today are going to be very illuminating if we lynch Finnian and he's a baddie.

[Ned Flanders]

My thoughts on Carmen are wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey.... She has survived 2 lynches now, along with Finn. Either one of them could have been saved by Rump, or neither, since they have been very suspected, and likely to be lynched anyway. I'm looking at the players who have insisted that Carmen should be lynched, in spite of possible role hints, and wondering if it means something important.

Someone pointed out that Carmen sounds new or inexperienced, but that isn't an indication of good or bad. I agree, except if they are bad, it seems like the team would guide them more.

I can totally understand a new player thinking that throwing out hints to the person who is supposed to find them, is a good idea. Maybe not realizing it could also get them killed. And the hints were so cleverly done, that they are questionable, or easily missed (so well-done, you! if you are new and good! for shame if you're an experienced baddie)

I still don't know about Carmen, but I will pay attention to the people who voted her yesterday, and weigh their posts carefully.

About Laine, I think he needs another look. Mainchin plainly stated that Laine was good, giving the impression that he had an investigative type role. I think he may have been killed because of that. His role is now listed on the first page, and I don't see where he would have had any special insight into Laine's role at all. But- being that Mainchin was good, and we have had contests, I'm still inclined to believe that he believed Laine to be good.

Queran, its good to hear that you are a male. Being king, I had assumed you were male, and had trouble understanding why at least two players have referred to you as 'her', I thought it may have been a chatroom slip....

[Young Lady]

I am leaning Finnain for today.

[Larry David]

Okay I thought I'd say Miyuki gives me a small case of the willies. While her posts seem to be a decent length, most of them just seem so... inoffensive (just my opinion maybe?)? Her behaviour regarding Carmen also struck me as a little odd and if it means anything, she was one of the earlier people going after Mainchin, who is now dead presumably of baddie behaviour.

[Kent Brockman]

There is a group (yes group, given that the heading is "The Wicked OneS") whose abilities have been secrets. This grim revelation means that I have to reevaluate everything.

For now, however, I will astrally project myself into the mind of someone a thousand years from now and blow up a shit ton of robots in hopes that answers come from that.

[Rachel Green]

And I personally think of two nights/no days as a civvie thing, not a baddie thing. I understand the survival/benefit concept, but this would seriously hurt the baddie team by taking away all night powers, especially Rumps word. I think it would be TOO harmful to the baddies for the hosts to use it in this context. I don't see it being a baddie thing, I see it being a civvie thing. Maybe they tried to kill the wrong person the prior night or something like that. I HAVE seen that done before, and it is a powerful thing, a civvie role that TRIES to draw NKs in order to produce this very effect.

Two days/no night is a help to the civs, which is why I suspect it was triggered by something that happened to a bad role. It's a balancing thing. Here, you baddie, you get to protect yourself from death, but the flipside is you lose a night.

People's posts today are going to be very illuminating if we lynch Finnian and he's a baddie.

I have also played games where the baddies tried to kill a specific civvie and that triggered two days, it could be that kind of thing as well. Or perhaps we mean minifrstations of the same thing, not sure. I don;t think they knowingly triggered it, though.

Like I said, i have seen this before, a civvie role that triggers two days on an attempted NK. It allows the civvie to try and draw the NK, doubly benefitting the civs by eliminating a night completely, and also eliminating the death of another civvie.

There is a group (yes group, given that the heading is "The Wicked OneS") whose abilities have been secrets. This grim revelation means that I have to reevaluate everything.

For now, however, I will astrally project myself into the mind of someone a thousand years from now and blow up a shit ton of robots in hopes that answers come from that.

Yeah, I was afraid of this

[Celeste]

I am leaning Finnain for today.

Sorryimnot going to be here much this day. I had a huge party here today and have family over for the weekend.

That being said I think it would be foolish to miss the opportunity to lynch Finnian in a rumple free day.

[Julinook]

I am leaning Finnain for today.

Sorryimnot going to be here much this day. I had a huge party here today and have family over for the weekend.

That being said I think it would be foolish to miss the opportunity to lynch Finnian in a rumple free day.

I have to agree with Etain. Also, if we all go for Finnian on a Rumple-free day and he actually gets lynched, we will have more evidence showing that Rumple is the reason for all these lynch switches.

[Rachel Green]

OK, I am willing to take that last post in mind, Ameerah.

OK, maybe I am wrong. I will not vote for you today then. Perhaps if more light were shed on this situation, perhaps we could actually see each other for once, and what better time for than than when there is no night.

Tell me, do you have any theories on why there was no night? And what do YOU think of Finian, Queran, Gob, et al?

My best guess as to why we're having back-to-back days is due to a role-related event. With there being so many secrets in this game, that's what I'm thinking.

I feel like Finnian is an enigma. Not voting is really not civvie behavior and coupled with his attitude about the voting, I haven't gotten good vibes. But on the flipside of things, I'd think if he had evil companions, they'd be encouraging him to vote so as to not draw so much attention to himself. Granted, maybe he has no active night power, or maybe there are secrets involved. So yeah, Finnian is a puzzle to me.

Queran has been sharing a lot of similar thoughts to me. So part of me wants to trust her (him?). Then there's Gobnait. The two of them have been at each other's throats since pretty early on. After reading Gobnait's posts on back on Day 3, I was leaning civvie for him. But I'm not sure.

And I know you didn't ask me about Carmen, but I wanted to re-explain my hesitation about her. The reason many chose to give her a pass during the last day phase is because of her supposed role hints. But we don't know for sure that those were role hints. Maybe it was just a coincidence. I still can't let go the fact that she survived the Day 3 lynch and we haven't come up with a civvie explanation for why. That being said, it would royally suck if we lynch her and found out those were real role hints. So yeah...ugh.

I am not a role hint person myself, but some things she said made me waffle somewhat. So like i said, I would rather wait and see if maybe those hints were the real deal.

I personally am leaning towards a vote for Finian.

Thanks for the answer, Ameerah This is an interesting voyage we take, and talking it out is better than passing in the night.

[Larry David]

I am leaning Finnain for today.

Sorryimnot going to be here much this day. I had a huge party here today and have family over for the weekend.

That being said I think it would be foolish to miss the opportunity to lynch Finnian in a rumple free day.

You seem a lot more sure since I started suspecting you.

[Ned Flanders]

Okay I thought I'd say Miyuki gives me a small case of the willies. While her posts seem to be a decent length, most of them just seem so... inoffensive (just my opinion maybe?)? Her behaviour regarding Carmen also struck me as a little odd and if it means anything, she was one of the earlier people going after Mainchin, who is now dead presumably of baddie behaviour.

Look to your left. Do you see a female in that avatar? Men can be witches ya know.

You must be a Brit, its fine to have a case of the willies, but in the New World, a small case of the willies has a slightly different meaning.

I do apologize for being so inoffensive. There are some who no doubt find it a welcome change, but just for you, I promise to offend as much as possible

[Larry David]

Okay I thought I'd say Miyuki gives me a small case of the willies. While her posts seem to be a decent length, most of them just seem so... inoffensive (just my opinion maybe?)? Her behaviour regarding Carmen also struck me as a little odd and if it means anything, she was one of the earlier people going after Mainchin, who is now dead presumably of baddie behaviour.

Look to your left. Do you see a female in that avatar? Men can be witches ya know.

You must be a Brit, its fine to have a case of the willies, but in the New World, a small case of the willies has a slightly different meaning.

I do apologize for being so inoffensive. There are some who no doubt find it a welcome change, but just for you, I promise to offend as much as possible

My bad.

And I've never heard any other meaning for "a case of the willies", so idk.

[Celeste]

I am leaning Finnain for today.

Sorryimnot going to be here much this day. I had a huge party here today and have family over for the weekend.

That being said I think it would be foolish to miss the opportunity to lynch Finnian in a rumple free day.

You seem a lot more sure since I started suspecting you.

Yea, I guess so. A good no u will do that I guess...