Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[HamburgerBoy]

This is the most suspect and nervous looking interaction with Zebra. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zebra just threw juliets in her scum list as her requisite wifom scum teammate and this interaction is them softly trying to flesh it out without it going down a path serious enough for juliets to get any serious attention on her.

I dunno, considering that Zebra has a habit of arguing a lot of getting night-killed/lynched early in most games, I would think it would just backfire on him if he went hard after juliets. juliets pretty much admits as much that she's a "soft" player that doesn't want to take too tough a stand early on, and based on A World Reborn I'd agree with that. It's also why I'm still cautious of her being scum, but I'm willing to wait things out rather than just go on meta based on a single game.

Besides, I think if people are going to bus each other, they are more likely to intentionally over do it rather than soft bus, unless the person being bussed is actually under significant threat of being lynched. That's wifom of course, but for a day 1 case I'd lean more in that direction.

[MacDougall]

i am out of time basically and need to vote. Metalmarsh, I saw you said you must have missed my posts. I'm going to give you the BOTD and give you another opportunity to answer me. I'll even did out the original question for you so it will be easier than you going back to look for it (did I ever tell you i got lynched for being too nice one time?).

This leaves Rico. I understand and believed in what Mac has been saying but the sheer overload of Rico throwing out things that are ridiculous (for example, zebra and bc24 posting near each other) and then trying to call them cases, and making comments that dont even need to be made just to remind people he thinks someone is bad (some directed at me) convinces me that the right vote is for Rico today. In addition, the fact that as far as anyone can remember Rico hasn't behaved like this before causes me to be suspicious that his overwhelming posting was meant to chill the room so not many people could actively participate. I know I had a lot of trouble keeping up and one glance at the posts tells you why. So, I'm voting for Rico today, we'll see how it goes.

Metalmarsh, gone to find your quote next.

This is another post that pings me from juliets. It's too waffly.

[juliets]

Zebra, I would also like to know why I am on your list if you have time right now to tell me. If not now, later would be fine.

I'm still waiting to hear (see) from Lorab before i vote but i'm getting uneasy about the time squeeze.

I'm the least confident about my baddie read of you, but you have made some posts that have stood out to me as waffly in a careful-baddie sort of way. I can't remember who said it but someone said that your posts were just mimicking others' observations and opinions, and that's not my issue because like you said yourself, it isn't alignment-indicative. However, I do think some of your suspicions are "safe" for lack of a better word. You've given me a sense that you're aiming to follow what trains are going to be the most prominent by the end of the day. In other words, following the pack while making it look like you're borderline leading it.

I understand what you are saying here. At the beginning of games regardless of my affiliation I am not very confident about lynching people. Some people are comfortable with that ambiguity but I am not. Therefore I come off as always following. As the game goes on I become more confident and i think you will see a change in my demeanor (if I make it that far). I will do my best to expose myself more earlier in the game than normal for me regardless of the consequences. Usually that comes out in the form of questions, one of which I've already asked and it hasn't been answered. My questions tell you where I am suspicious.

Thanks for your answer to my question.

This is the most suspect and nervous looking interaction with Zebra. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zebra just threw juliets in her scum list as her requisite wifom scum teammate and this interaction is them softly trying to flesh it out without it going down a path serious enough for juliets to get any serious attention on her.

I don't understand where you get this idea. Have i done something - other than my response here - to make you think I am a baddie? The post you quoted is just how I am - I try to explain myself, I don't get upset and I tell the truth when I am civ which I am in this game. I don't know how I can prove that what you say is not true but it's not. I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

[HamburgerBoy]

This is another post that pings me from juliets. It's too waffly.

Really? That whole second paragraph seems very directed and confident about Rico being scum, I'd say her least waffly case so far this game.

[sig]

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

[HamburgerBoy]

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

Roughly what percentage of Syndicate games have lie detector roles?

[sig]

I couldn't give a percentage, but I seem to remember that this is a semi common role, though it would be a little to normal for a champion game.

[MacDougall]

This is the most suspect and nervous looking interaction with Zebra. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zebra just threw juliets in her scum list as her requisite wifom scum teammate and this interaction is them softly trying to flesh it out without it going down a path serious enough for juliets to get any serious attention on her.

I dunno, considering that Zebra has a habit of arguing a lot of getting night-killed/lynched early in most games, I would think it would just backfire on him if he went hard after juliets. juliets pretty much admits as much that she's a "soft" player that doesn't want to take too tough a stand early on, and based on A World Reborn I'd agree with that. It's also why I'm still cautious of her being scum, but I'm willing to wait things out rather than just go on meta based on a single game.

Besides, I think if people are going to bus each other, they are more likely to intentionally over do it rather than soft bus, unless the person being bussed is actually under significant threat of being lynched. That's wifom of course, but for a day 1 case I'd lean more in that direction.

You're just arguing with me for the sake of looking like you are contributing. Zebra put together a day 1 "kill list" in almost all cases a scum will arbitrarily include teammates in such lists. This is common and to suggest that in all cases a scum does it intentionally rather than softly is incorrect. In fact the way that Zebra proceeded to get juliets out of her list is further indicative of them being teammates.

All I'm reading in juliets' post is I'm following Mac's, Epig's and Sorsha's train of thoughts.

Yes, that is exactly what i am saying. Is there something wrong with that? Sometimes people post their thoughts to persuade others and whether or not that was their intent, I was persuaded to look hard at Lorab as a result of those posts. That's how the game works.

This is exactly the same juliets I saw last game, and it's just as suspicious as ever to me. I know she said that she was playing her usual game back then as well, but I definitely can't ignore this. Gun to head scum.

Here you scum read her. Your first mention of her in the game.

Here's my rainbow so far, people in black don't have enough content for me to judge. Far from definitive though, I expect by tomorrow many of those yellows will be in green or orange, and a couple of oranges in red.

Ricochet (in the clouds strumming his harp)

RadicalFuzz
Draconus
golden

LoRab
Epignosis
Matt
MacDougall
Boomslang
MetalMarsh
sig
Elohcin/FZ
juliets
thellama73
nijuukyugou
Dom
DrWilgy

Long Con
DharmaHelper
Sorsha
JaggedJimmyJay
Black Rock

bcornett24
Bass_the_Clever
Spacedaisy
Timmer
Tranq

Here you have seemingly upgraded her to a yellow skittle. How did you arrive to this? And now you are jumping to her defense. I cannot see any way that your scum read on her would have weakened to the point of now defending her. If anything I would expect civilian HB to have a strengthened scum read in light of the Zebra flip.

[Golden]

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

Roughly what percentage of Syndicate games have lie detector roles?

I would be surprised to see one in an SVS game. Can't guarantee it, but I think it is less likely.

[MacDougall]

This is another post that pings me from juliets. It's too waffly.

Really? That whole second paragraph seems very directed and confident about Rico being scum, I'd say her least waffly case so far this game.

Your defense of her is making me think you are know for a fact she is not Zebra's teammate.

Her post to get her vote on Rico included an admission of the validity of the case against him being a lynchable scum, she used what I am reading as verbose language to get her vote onto the wagon of a player bound to be lynched.

Zebra, I would also like to know why I am on your list if you have time right now to tell me. If not now, later would be fine.

I'm still waiting to hear (see) from Lorab before i vote but i'm getting uneasy about the time squeeze.

I'm the least confident about my baddie read of you, but you have made some posts that have stood out to me as waffly in a careful-baddie sort of way. I can't remember who said it but someone said that your posts were just mimicking others' observations and opinions, and that's not my issue because like you said yourself, it isn't alignment-indicative. However, I do think some of your suspicions are "safe" for lack of a better word. You've given me a sense that you're aiming to follow what trains are going to be the most prominent by the end of the day. In other words, following the pack while making it look like you're borderline leading it.

I understand what you are saying here. At the beginning of games regardless of my affiliation I am not very confident about lynching people. Some people are comfortable with that ambiguity but I am not. Therefore I come off as always following. As the game goes on I become more confident and i think you will see a change in my demeanor (if I make it that far). I will do my best to expose myself more earlier in the game than normal for me regardless of the consequences. Usually that comes out in the form of questions, one of which I've already asked and it hasn't been answered. My questions tell you where I am suspicious.

Thanks for your answer to my question.

This is the most suspect and nervous looking interaction with Zebra. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zebra just threw juliets in her scum list as her requisite wifom scum teammate and this interaction is them softly trying to flesh it out without it going down a path serious enough for juliets to get any serious attention on her.

I don't understand where you get this idea. Have i done something - other than my response here - to make you think I am a baddie? The post you quoted is just how I am - I try to explain myself, I don't get upset and I tell the truth when I am civ which I am in this game. I don't know how I can prove that what you say is not true but it's not. I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

You may very well be not but as we speak I am looking back to through Zebra interactions and your interactions with her, both ways, are the least sincere looking. You might remember that I scum read you accurately for similar reasons in Reborn. It could be that Zebra has done this intentionally. In light of HB defending you after having scum read you I am actually considering the idea that he is the Zebra teammate and knows that you are not. What do you think of that suggestion?

[juliets]

i am out of time basically and need to vote. Metalmarsh, I saw you said you must have missed my posts. I'm going to give you the BOTD and give you another opportunity to answer me. I'll even did out the original question for you so it will be easier than you going back to look for it (did I ever tell you i got lynched for being too nice one time?).

This leaves Rico. I understand and believed in what Mac has been saying but the sheer overload of Rico throwing out things that are ridiculous (for example, zebra and bc24 posting near each other) and then trying to call them cases, and making comments that dont even need to be made just to remind people he thinks someone is bad (some directed at me) convinces me that the right vote is for Rico today. In addition, the fact that as far as anyone can remember Rico hasn't behaved like this before causes me to be suspicious that his overwhelming posting was meant to chill the room so not many people could actively participate. I know I had a lot of trouble keeping up and one glance at the posts tells you why. So, I'm voting for Rico today, we'll see how it goes.

Metalmarsh, gone to find your quote next.

This is another post that pings me from juliets. It's too waffly.

I disagree that this is waffly. I'm making a day 1 vote and did what I consider to be a good job explaining why I was voting for Rico. I also explained why I wasn't voting for Metalmarsh. I didn't include Lorab because I had already explained why I wasn't voting for her. I don't see any waffle in this post.

[Sorsha]

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

Let's just hope golden isn't the again lie detector this game

I just had a beer called butterfly farts :P

[Epignosis]

@sig - I can't say for sure that Elo was or wasn't bad but she generally doesn't like big games where there are a lot of posts and it's hard to keep up with. I haven't noticed her alignment when dropping but that's usually the reason. Epig could speak to this issue better than me I think.

She can't keep up with the posts. The volume of posts makes it impossible for a cake-making mother of three to keep up. It isn't fun for her.

I'm at my computer quite a bit, and I just now caught up to this page. It's ridiculous.

I get why Ricochet did what he did, but damn dude, there's five hundred other ways to get lynched Day 1, and none of them involve spamming to the point where there's TWENTY pages of reading to do on a NIGHT ZERO, when ordinarily, that is the time when people are checking in and voting. I lost interest my damn self. It's a chore, and now I know that your posts were just to get yourself lynched, so it sucks having spent my evenings after work reading it all to get to page forty-fucking-six for the beginning of Day 2.

A high post count for the sake of a high post count sucks, and some people don't enjoy that.

[HamburgerBoy]

You're just arguing with me for the sake of looking like you are contributing. Zebra put together a day 1 "kill list" in almost all cases a scum will arbitrarily include teammates in such lists. This is common and to suggest that in all cases a scum does it intentionally rather than softly is incorrect. In fact the way that Zebra proceeded to get juliets out of her list is further indicative of them being teammates.

I wasn't talking about the mere presence of her on the list, I was talking about the "soft" dialogue both of them had with each other. I'm saying that your theory that zebra was playing it safe as to not accidentally get juliets lynched seems silly, especially when considering that Ricochet had basically been called before the day even started. Additionally, like you're saying, kill lists are usually used for misdirection, which is why I previously discussed the people zebra had argued with while putting less emphasis on the people on the list. If anything, suddenly distancing her from the list makes her look like she wasn't a teammate, so that people could go back and say "Hey, the only person Zebra dropped from her list was juliets, looks like distancing/a soft bus". Again, wifom, but that's why I don't even like to touch those kinds of lists.

Here you scum read her. Your first mention of her in the game.

Here you have seemingly upgraded her to a yellow skittle. How did you arrive to this? And now you are jumping to her defense. I cannot see any way that your scum read on her would have weakened to the point of now defending her. If anything I would expect civilian HB to have a strengthened scum read in light of the Zebra flip.

My view on her earlier was purely meta, and that's still about all I have. The people in orange are people that I have more of a case on, so I don't think it's fair to automatically kick her there. I don't agree that zebra's history with juliets makes her look worse.

[MacDougall]

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

Roughly what percentage of Syndicate games have lie detector roles?

I couldn't give a percentage, but I seem to remember that this is a semi common role, though it would be a little to normal for a champion game.

Hmmmm this interaction is fishy.

Sig, what's your read on HB and particularly how do you feel about the points raised about his read on juliets from my recent few posts?

[MacDougall]

You're just arguing with me for the sake of looking like you are contributing. Zebra put together a day 1 "kill list" in almost all cases a scum will arbitrarily include teammates in such lists. This is common and to suggest that in all cases a scum does it intentionally rather than softly is incorrect. In fact the way that Zebra proceeded to get juliets out of her list is further indicative of them being teammates.

I wasn't talking about the mere presence of her on the list, I was talking about the "soft" dialogue both of them had with each other. I'm saying that your theory that zebra was playing it safe as to not accidentally get juliets lynched seems silly, especially when considering that Ricochet had basically been called before the day even started. Additionally, like you're saying, kill lists are usually used for misdirection, which is why I previously discussed the people zebra had argued with while putting less emphasis on the people on the list. If anything, suddenly distancing her from the list makes her look like she wasn't a teammate, so that people could go back and say "Hey, the only person Zebra dropped from her list was juliets, looks like distancing/a soft bus". Again, wifom, but that's why I don't even like to touch those kinds of lists.

Here you scum read her. Your first mention of her in the game.

Here you have seemingly upgraded her to a yellow skittle. How did you arrive to this? And now you are jumping to her defense. I cannot see any way that your scum read on her would have weakened to the point of now defending her. If anything I would expect civilian HB to have a strengthened scum read in light of the Zebra flip.

My view on her earlier was purely meta, and that's still about all I have. The people in orange are people that I have more of a case on, so I don't think it's fair to automatically kick her there. I don't agree that zebra's history with juliets makes her look worse.

Okay this is the first post of yours that I haven't had to read with my eyes squinted to engage my brain enough to try to understand what you are saying. Well done.

[HamburgerBoy]

Your defense of her is making me think you are know for a fact she is not Zebra's teammate.

Her post to get her vote on Rico included an admission of the validity of the case against him being a lynchable scum, she used what I am reading as verbose language to get her vote onto the wagon of a player bound to be lynched.

That's what zebra said about me for "defending" Rico.

What does verbose language have to do with waffling? What does admitting that a case is valid have to do with waffling? Waffling would be more like "Well, I think there are some valid points but some not so valid, overall I guess I'll vote Rico but I'm really not sure". I agree that Rico was bound to be lynched by the time she voted, but same could be said about many players (including myself), and again, distinct from waffling.

[Turnip Head]

I believe I saw a question earlier for me, and the answer is that dead players do not count toward the population of living players, mainly because they are dead.

[HamburgerBoy]

Okay this is the first post of yours that I haven't had to read with my eyes squinted to engage my brain enough to try to understand what you are saying. Well done.

I'll admit that's some well-reasoned skepticism towards those interpretations.

More parallels.

[Epignosis]

I'm still on Lorab. I said she cracked under pressure. I applied pressure. She disappeared. When she came back, she was sweet as sugar. I think her twirly behind got the jitters when I called her out so early.

[juliets]

This is another post that pings me from juliets. It's too waffly.

Really? That whole second paragraph seems very directed and confident about Rico being scum, I'd say her least waffly case so far this game.

Your defense of her is making me think you are know for a fact she is not Zebra's teammate.

Her post to get her vote on Rico included an admission of the validity of the case against him being a lynchable scum, she used what I am reading as verbose language to get her vote onto the wagon of a player bound to be lynched.

Zebra, I would also like to know why I am on your list if you have time right now to tell me. If not now, later would be fine.

I'm still waiting to hear (see) from Lorab before i vote but i'm getting uneasy about the time squeeze.

I'm the least confident about my baddie read of you, but you have made some posts that have stood out to me as waffly in a careful-baddie sort of way. I can't remember who said it but someone said that your posts were just mimicking others' observations and opinions, and that's not my issue because like you said yourself, it isn't alignment-indicative. However, I do think some of your suspicions are "safe" for lack of a better word. You've given me a sense that you're aiming to follow what trains are going to be the most prominent by the end of the day. In other words, following the pack while making it look like you're borderline leading it.

I understand what you are saying here. At the beginning of games regardless of my affiliation I am not very confident about lynching people. Some people are comfortable with that ambiguity but I am not. Therefore I come off as always following. As the game goes on I become more confident and i think you will see a change in my demeanor (if I make it that far). I will do my best to expose myself more earlier in the game than normal for me regardless of the consequences. Usually that comes out in the form of questions, one of which I've already asked and it hasn't been answered. My questions tell you where I am suspicious.

Thanks for your answer to my question.

This is the most suspect and nervous looking interaction with Zebra. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zebra just threw juliets in her scum list as her requisite wifom scum teammate and this interaction is them softly trying to flesh it out without it going down a path serious enough for juliets to get any serious attention on her.

I don't understand where you get this idea. Have i done something - other than my response here - to make you think I am a baddie? The post you quoted is just how I am - I try to explain myself, I don't get upset and I tell the truth when I am civ which I am in this game. I don't know how I can prove that what you say is not true but it's not. I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

You may very well be not but as we speak I am looking back to through Zebra interactions and your interactions with her, both ways, are the least sincere looking. You might remember that I scum read you accurately for similar reasons in Reborn. It could be that Zebra has done this intentionally. In light of HB defending you after having scum read you I am actually considering the idea that he is the Zebra teammate and knows that you are not. What do you think of that suggestion?

Mac, I think you have not played enough with me to gauge my sincerity. And don't forget I pointed out in World Reborn that I post the same way regardless of affiliation, and now you are seeing an example of that. My interactions with people have all been sincere from my perspective. You are judging me against some standard that has nothing to do with me. I also think just because Ham Boy posted that I didn't seem waffly to him it is a long leap to say that makes him Zebra's teammate. He very well may be but there would have to be more evidence than that to convince me it was true.

[MacDougall]

Your defense of her is making me think you are know for a fact she is not Zebra's teammate.

Her post to get her vote on Rico included an admission of the validity of the case against him being a lynchable scum, she used what I am reading as verbose language to get her vote onto the wagon of a player bound to be lynched.

That's what zebra said about me for "defending" Rico.

What does verbose language have to do with waffling? What does admitting that a case is valid have to do with waffling? Waffling would be more like "Well, I think there are some valid points but some not so valid, overall I guess I'll vote Rico but I'm really not sure". I agree that Rico was bound to be lynched by the time she voted, but same could be said about many players (including myself), and again, distinct from waffling.

I probably misused the word waffling tbh. Suffice to say the post didn't seem genuine to me.

[MacDougall]

Okay this is the first post of yours that I haven't had to read with my eyes squinted to engage my brain enough to try to understand what you are saying. Well done.

I'll admit that's some well-reasoned skepticism towards those interpretations.

More parallels.

More? Where were the first ones?

There is no way you could think Zebra and I are teammates? Surely. That is plucked from your ass scum fakery beyond all compare.

[MacDougall]

This is another post that pings me from juliets. It's too waffly.

Really? That whole second paragraph seems very directed and confident about Rico being scum, I'd say her least waffly case so far this game.

Your defense of her is making me think you are know for a fact she is not Zebra's teammate.

Her post to get her vote on Rico included an admission of the validity of the case against him being a lynchable scum, she used what I am reading as verbose language to get her vote onto the wagon of a player bound to be lynched.

Zebra, I would also like to know why I am on your list if you have time right now to tell me. If not now, later would be fine.

I'm still waiting to hear (see) from Lorab before i vote but i'm getting uneasy about the time squeeze.

I'm the least confident about my baddie read of you, but you have made some posts that have stood out to me as waffly in a careful-baddie sort of way. I can't remember who said it but someone said that your posts were just mimicking others' observations and opinions, and that's not my issue because like you said yourself, it isn't alignment-indicative. However, I do think some of your suspicions are "safe" for lack of a better word. You've given me a sense that you're aiming to follow what trains are going to be the most prominent by the end of the day. In other words, following the pack while making it look like you're borderline leading it.

I understand what you are saying here. At the beginning of games regardless of my affiliation I am not very confident about lynching people. Some people are comfortable with that ambiguity but I am not. Therefore I come off as always following. As the game goes on I become more confident and i think you will see a change in my demeanor (if I make it that far). I will do my best to expose myself more earlier in the game than normal for me regardless of the consequences. Usually that comes out in the form of questions, one of which I've already asked and it hasn't been answered. My questions tell you where I am suspicious.

Thanks for your answer to my question.

This is the most suspect and nervous looking interaction with Zebra. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zebra just threw juliets in her scum list as her requisite wifom scum teammate and this interaction is them softly trying to flesh it out without it going down a path serious enough for juliets to get any serious attention on her.

I don't understand where you get this idea. Have i done something - other than my response here - to make you think I am a baddie? The post you quoted is just how I am - I try to explain myself, I don't get upset and I tell the truth when I am civ which I am in this game. I don't know how I can prove that what you say is not true but it's not. I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

You may very well be not but as we speak I am looking back to through Zebra interactions and your interactions with her, both ways, are the least sincere looking. You might remember that I scum read you accurately for similar reasons in Reborn. It could be that Zebra has done this intentionally. In light of HB defending you after having scum read you I am actually considering the idea that he is the Zebra teammate and knows that you are not. What do you think of that suggestion?

Mac, I think you have not played enough with me to gauge my sincerity. And don't forget I pointed out in World Reborn that I post the same way regardless of affiliation, and now you are seeing an example of that. My interactions with people have all been sincere from my perspective. You are judging me against some standard that has nothing to do with me. I also think just because Ham Boy posted that I didn't seem waffly to him it is a long leap to say that makes him Zebra's teammate. He very well may be but there would have to be more evidence than that to convince me it was true.

Maybe if you are the greatest player who ever lived. One does not need to have played many games with a player to be able to feel when they are lying. I don't believe that I need meta to feel the insincerity in someone's posts. That's not to say I am always right, but I am certainly not always wrong just because I haven't played many games with someone.

Yes I am sure you felt that the case that was made against you in Reborn was faulty reasoning that lucked out. Most often my reads are tonal and I am forced to actually find thread evidence to elaborate on tone reads. That's why my scum reads are rarely lynched and often disputed. Much like your disputing my read of HB right now.

Lucky for you there is more evidence. Have you read it?

[HamburgerBoy]

More? Where were the first ones?

There is no way you could think Zebra and I are teammates? Surely. That is plucked from your ass scum fakery beyond all compare.

No, I just think you're engaging in the same kind of scummy behavior. You make an argument, I argue back, you accuse me of arguing for the primary purpose of defending an alleged scummate, I try again and emphasize more clearly my problem with your argument, you are suddenly like "Oh OK cool" and drop it.

[MacDougall]

More? Where were the first ones?

There is no way you could think Zebra and I are teammates? Surely. That is plucked from your ass scum fakery beyond all compare.

No, I just think you're engaging in the same kind of scummy behavior. You make an argument, I argue back, you accuse me of arguing for the primary purpose of defending an alleged scummate, I try again and emphasize more clearly my problem with your argument, you are suddenly like "Oh OK cool" and drop it.

How is that scummy? Jesus HB you are a good player. If I am trying to deduce the reasoning from someone and struggling and then they make a post where all of a sudden things make sense I will happily say so.

[MacDougall]

I'm still on Lorab. I said she cracked under pressure. I applied pressure. She disappeared. When she came back, she was sweet as sugar. I think her twirly behind got the jitters when I called her out so early.

I don't think you are trying very hard to convince people of this. Do you expect Lorab to get lynched on the back of this? You seem to be phoning it in and hiding behind "wah too many posts".

[sig]

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

Roughly what percentage of Syndicate games have lie detector roles?

I would be surprised to see one in an SVS game. Can't guarantee it, but I think it is less likely.

Okay thanks, do you think Zebra is indeed scum or was it some form of trickery?
It just seems odd for a baddie to be shot on night 1, I don't recall something like that to ever happen. Unless she was just killed for her skill which also makes little sense, she is usually mislynched early to mid game. Know if she was killed by a mafia team for her skill then it could be she was onto something about that team. Thoughts?

link: Okay Epi thanks for clarification.
Mac right know they are both null, I think HB is being genuine in his defense of juliets, however, I guess he could be scum buddies and still be genuine.
What do you think of Llama?

[HamburgerBoy]

How is that scummy? Jesus HB you are a good player. If I am trying to deduce the reasoning from someone and struggling and then they make a post where all of a sudden things make sense I will happily say so.

There are at least steps in an argument. First you have to understand what the other person is saying, then you can say why you think they're wrong. Apparently you just reached the comprehension stage, and I'll admit that people often say my arguments are confusing and need to be re-clarified so that's not a diss on you, but now that you're at a position to actually tell me I'm wrong and why, you suddenly don't care anymore. Not to mention that you didn't even say previously that I was being confusing or unclear or whatever, you just said that I was arguing for the sake of arguing, and that I'm defending juliets. Together, that implies to me that you don't really care about what I'm saying about your arguments, you just care that I look like a teammate of juliets' as a result. Same thing zebra did to me just yesterday, only replace juliets with Rico.

[Epignosis]

sig, I have asked before and Knever got an answer. I have to now know now. Please now let me know now why you write "Know" when you mean "Now."

Please and thank you.

[HamburgerBoy]

*"at least TWO steps"

[sig]

sig, I have asked before and Knever got an answer. I have to now know now. Please now let me know now why you write "Know" when you mean "Now."

Please and thank you.

I do it to annoy you?
no wait I do it since I'm an anarchist libertarian.

Though on a more serious note when I type up my posts through a word document it self auto corrects now to know and I haven't figured out why yet. I'll keep an eye out for it from now on.

[Epignosis]

sig, I have asked before and Knever got an answer. I have to now know now. Please now let me know now why you write "Know" when you mean "Now."

Please and thank you.

I do it to annoy you?
no wait I do it since I'm an anarchist libertarian.

Though on a more serious note when I type up my posts through a word document it self auto corrects now to know and I haven't figured out why yet. I'll keep an eye out for it from now on.

I'm not asking you to change anything. I was just honest-to-God curious. It's so consistent, I didn't know (now?) if it was a thing from another site you were known (nown?) for or whatever.

That's a shitty word processor you have though.

[Epignosis]

And Oh shit Cincy! Just looked at the score. Who dey

[Golden]

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

Roughly what percentage of Syndicate games have lie detector roles?

I would be surprised to see one in an SVS game. Can't guarantee it, but I think it is less likely.

Okay thanks, do you think Zebra is indeed scum or was it some form of trickery?

I'll assume really bad unless we get some evidence of that kind of trickery existing.

[Golden]

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

Let's just hope golden isn't the again lie detector this game

I just had a beer called butterfly farts :P

Voting for Sorsha

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And Oh shit Cincy! Just looked at the score. Who dey

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is the worst day of my life.

[Marmot]

And Oh shit Cincy! Just looked at the score. Who dey

[Epignosis]

And Oh shit Cincy! Just looked at the score. Who dey

That sucks.

[Epignosis]

I won't be voting for 3J today.

[Sorsha]

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

Let's just hope golden isn't the again lie detector this game

I just had a beer called butterfly farts :P

Voting for Sorsha

b<3

[Long Con]

I won't be voting for 3J today.

That's interesting, I assume you guys are currently discussing some sort of sporting event? Cincy? What is that, Cincinnati? I dunno. Is that why?

Burger is no longer Superman. The notion that I am on Zebra's team is beyond tinfoil. It's crackpot.

I think you are on zebra's team.

I think, especially in a Champions Game, a baddie curser role on the first night would not target someone who they want to silence. I believe they would try to pull a frame-up job. I believe that zebra targeted her teammate JJJ with the curse, because they saw an opportunity to frame Llama. JJJ was very sure that Llama was the one that cursed him. Has he even considered that it might be an attempt to frame Llama?

*votes JaggedJimmyJay*

In other thoughts, I think it is more unlikely than likely that there is a Lie Detector role in this game. I think that these roles are rare, and that many find them unsavoury. I like them personally, albeit with some sort of limitation to make it not so easy to just alignment-check on player per round. My opinion is that there is no Lie Detector in this game.

[Long Con]

I didn't remember TH's avatar for the Spider Monkey thing. These avatar-changing types are hard to keep up with sometimes. You won't catch me doing that.

[FZ.]

Hi

I was really hoping that if I have to replace it will be when there are less players, because it's really hard for me to keep up with this level of reading and catching up.
I can't promise to read back everything, but I'll try skimming. If anyone wants to summarize the important stuff, that would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.

I started reading from a little bit after the lynch.

This post caught my eye:

Well, I had no idea this lynch result was even possible, but I'm pretty pleased by it. I think having a confirmed civ as a discussion resource is worth more than people realize: we all now know exactly where Rico's opinions are coming from, and the way people agree/disagree with his arguments take on a lot more meaning.

Regarding the night poll, I'm going to vote for Bos taurus because, like Boomslang, it starts with B. Disappointed there's no Dispholidus typus option :P

Blendy post, with what seems to be a logical and helpful point, when in fact, he's just stating the obvious and not really saying anything. I guess I'll have to go back and read Bullzeye now, but I had to react to that post.

When I saw what JJJ wrote about zebra and her enjoying his curse, my first reaction was exactly like HB's, thinking that he could easily be on her team. Give credit early on to someone while giving someone who is a very high poster a legit reason to post less, which is something I would appreciate as a baddie having to live up to the expectations people have of my civ persona. That said, I didn't read any day 1 discussion, so I don't know how much JJJ contributed to the discussion. If he was in fact limited in what he could say or convey, I'd expect him to come in full force when he was released from the curse and share his thoughts and ease his frustration. Has he done that? I'm still reading. So, for all of you who have been here on day 1, how does his behaviour fit in with what I said?

[FZ.]

Burger is no longer Superman. The notion that I am on Zebra's team is beyond tinfoil. It's crackpot.

It's not, but if you are good, I can see where you're coming from. When you say Superman, you mean super civvie who can be wrong, or a civvie that has a great read (as far as you can judge)? If it's the former, why do you no longer see him as that?

[RadicalFuzz]

On the note of people suspecting me for that early post, Elochin (replaced by FZ now) had echoed Faraday's point and seemed to dislike me calling it that, but Dharma didn't voice anything about that despite his dislike of Faraday's point. My first post stated that I'd be playing differently this game, so the arguments of "he didn't do this as town so he must be scum" would be null. Faraday felt it "strange," would you agree with that?

I feel you J3, I had money on the Texans. Not the best Saturday in recent memory, to say the least.

[RadicalFuzz]

Oh, I just thought of a fun pun.

Faraday has been...
Barry-d


I'm leaving now.

[Ricochet]

One last thing, if Roger Rabbit was a civ role last game wouldn't it be odd for it to be a scum role this game? Could this be some sort of seemer/prankster thing? Remember Night 0 scum was able to do actions in theory they could have targeted Zebra and then killed her today. This could be a seemer role where it replaces the scum who used it, just switched the alignment, or let the seemer pick a role.
I think the chances of this are low, but then again the chances of hitting a mafia night 1 is also small.

I hit a mafia with my wii vigi gun on Night 1 in the Donner game (from which my role is).

Why would a non-mafia seemer role choose to show up as mafia? Besides, her role (powers) still sounded scummy. She would have been able to screw up with a (presumably cop's) alignment checks. The insanification part can usually be attributed to both town and anti-town (if the question-ifier is town, it makes sense for balance purposes), but her "position 4" is the biggest indicator that she was up to no good.

Or are you saying her killer can change how he shows up? Is this a reference to the Trickster or any other role this past year? What did the Trickster do in WR?

The only thing I don't get is how come zebra acted cognizant within minutes of her death. Night victims don't usually get told they're going down (except if you're watching footie at Epig's home while he's hosting). Strange near-death behaviour.

@sig - I can't say for sure that Elo was or wasn't bad but she generally doesn't like big games where there are a lot of posts and it's hard to keep up with. I haven't noticed her alignment when dropping but that's usually the reason. Epig could speak to this issue better than me I think.

She can't keep up with the posts. The volume of posts makes it impossible for a cake-making mother of three to keep up. It isn't fun for her.

I'm at my computer quite a bit, and I just now caught up to this page. It's ridiculous.

I get why Ricochet did what he did, but damn dude, there's five hundred other ways to get lynched Day 1, and none of them involve spamming to the point where there's TWENTY pages of reading to do on a NIGHT ZERO, when ordinarily, that is the time when people are checking in and voting. I lost interest my damn self. It's a chore, and now I know that your posts were just to get yourself lynched, so it sucks having spent my evenings after work reading it all to get to page forty-fucking-six for the beginning of Day 2.

A high post count for the sake of a high post count sucks, and some people don't enjoy that.

I would slightly argue that I didn't exactly talk to myself for four days, but yeah, I understand what I've created to some. Pardonu!

I don't feel I would have gotten lynched on Day 1, by a majority formed among 29 players, if I would have played it subtle or just attract small pings. That's MM's or BWT's specialty. I could have tried, of course, but given that I rarely caused concern early on in mafia game the entire year, I didn't have much confidence in any other method than stepping on everyone's toes.

I can't promise to read back everything, but I'll try skimming. If anyone wants to summarize the important stuff, that would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.

I started reading from a little bit after the lynch.

I caused a shitstorm to get lynched. You should probably ISO players individually, to judge how they behaved or what stance they took during my shitstormfest. Definitely no need to re-read me, because, as I told (scumstress ) Zebra, the only times I blended fooling around with actual pings was with LoRab, juliets, maybe Dom or Tranq. Hope this helps.

[Golden]

Welcome FZ