Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[DharmaHelper]

DH explain your vote or feel my wrath.

You're pushing to lynch an independent player, and Sorsha moved her vote off Motel Room.

[MacDougall]

DH explain your vote or feel my wrath.

You're pushing to lynch an independent player, and Sorsha moved her vote off Motel Room.

Wow.

[DharmaHelper]

Also you hella defended Dr Wilgy.

[MacDougall]

Also you hella defended Dr Wilgy.

Wow.

[MacDougall]

You literally said that you read my play as civ after the lynch, now you are using it as a justification for a vote.

My pushing of Metalmarsh as a candidate makes more sense than anything I've said so far, maybe I'm taking heat from you for being abruptly sensible.

[DharmaHelper]

You literally said that you read my play as civ after the lynch, now you are using it as a justification for a vote.

My pushing of Metalmarsh as a candidate makes more sense than anything I've said so far, maybe I'm taking heat from you for being abruptly sensible.

Uh I've also been spending a good part of this phase re-reading you and pointing out how you could possibly be bad. D'ya wanna vote bea instead?

[MacDougall]

DH my staunch defender and only friend has turned his back on me at the last. The impending darkness overwhelms me. I know that I deserve it, for I sinned by allowing a murderer to live and even defended him. Is being wrong a sin worthy of the gallows? Perhaps it depends on the outcome of incorrectness. Do we not all folly from time to time though? Do all our follies result in the continued survival of a murderer? No.

[DharmaHelper]

Wilgy said he was wrong too.

[DharmaHelper]

Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.

[Marmot]

DH my staunch defender and only friend has turned his back on me at the last. The impending darkness overwhelms me. I know that I deserve it, for I sinned by allowing a murderer to live and even defended him. Is being wrong a sin worthy of the gallows? Perhaps it depends on the outcome of incorrectness. Do we not all folly from time to time though? Do all our follies result in the continued survival of a murderer? No.

You latched onto Matt's case that I buddied zebra for reasons, and that I couldn't have just been wrong.

Linki:

[Sorsha]

DH my staunch defender and only friend has turned his back on me at the last. The impending darkness overwhelms me. I know that I deserve it, for I sinned by allowing a murderer to live and even defended him. Is being wrong a sin worthy of the gallows? Perhaps it depends on the outcome of incorrectness. Do we not all folly from time to time though? Do all our follies result in the continued survival of a murderer? No.

Preach on brotha, I hear ya.

[Marmot]

Never mind. I thought Mac said he was voting motel room, not DH.

[Sorsha]

Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.

Why don't you want to vote Draco?

[MacDougall]

Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.

How bout juliets? What do you think about her?

[DharmaHelper]

DH my staunch defender and only friend has turned his back on me at the last. The impending darkness overwhelms me. I know that I deserve it, for I sinned by allowing a murderer to live and even defended him. Is being wrong a sin worthy of the gallows? Perhaps it depends on the outcome of incorrectness. Do we not all folly from time to time though? Do all our follies result in the continued survival of a murderer? No.

Preach on brotha, I hear ya.

Wow! Seriously? I trusted you andblah blah blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[DharmaHelper]

Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.

Why don't you want to vote Draco?

Cuz you want to.

[DharmaHelper]

Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.

How bout juliets? What do you think about her?

Already said.

[MacDougall]

JC is probably hiding behind my vote, I agree with the assessment that she is glomping onto people and being as agreeable/blendy as she can. Probably one of my next suspects once this Wilgy/Sorsha mess is cleared up. Her and Drac need a good look over.

What happened to this coastal chill?

[MacDougall]

Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.

How bout juliets? What do you think about her?

Already said.

Oh yeah really where?

[DharmaHelper]

Since its slow DH why don't you explain to me why you think I'm bad.

Its mostly vibes really. Like Rico says, a lot of your activity has been agreeing with X case and voting for X case, not really ruffling too many feathers or getting into the mud. Admittedly my energy has been put elsewhere so I'd have to really read you over to finalize my thoughts.

[Sorsha]

Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.

Why don't you want to vote Draco?

Cuz you want to.

I want to lynch motel room too

[DharmaHelper]

Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.

Why don't you want to vote Draco?

Cuz you want to.

I want to lynch motel room too

If only you were on the poll

[MacDougall]

Since its slow DH why don't you explain to me why you think I'm bad.

Its mostly vibes really. Like Rico says, a lot of your activity has been agreeing with X case and voting for X case, not really ruffling too many feathers or getting into the mud. Admittedly my energy has been put elsewhere so I'd have to really read you over to finalize my thoughts.

Where/when is that post?

[MacDougall]

Her and Drac need a good look over.

Since its slow DH why don't you explain to me why you think I'm bad.

Its mostly vibes really. Like Rico says, a lot of your activity has been agreeing with X case and voting for X case, not really ruffling too many feathers or getting into the mud. Admittedly my energy has been put elsewhere so I'd have to really read you over to finalize my thoughts.

This post =/= "good look over" DH.

[MacDougall]

In fact you even said you need to further inspect her in the post you spoke to HER in.

[DharmaHelper]

Her and Drac need a good look over.

Since its slow DH why don't you explain to me why you think I'm bad.

Its mostly vibes really. Like Rico says, a lot of your activity has been agreeing with X case and voting for X case, not really ruffling too many feathers or getting into the mud. Admittedly my energy has been put elsewhere so I'd have to really read you over to finalize my thoughts.

This post =/= "good look over" DH.

I didn't say it was. You asked for my thoughts. There they are. Today was spent looking for Wilgy's teammates at Rico's behest. I can't do everything for you.

[MacDougall]

Her and Drac need a good look over.

Since its slow DH why don't you explain to me why you think I'm bad.

Its mostly vibes really. Like Rico says, a lot of your activity has been agreeing with X case and voting for X case, not really ruffling too many feathers or getting into the mud. Admittedly my energy has been put elsewhere so I'd have to really read you over to finalize my thoughts.

This post =/= "good look over" DH.

I didn't say it was. You asked for my thoughts. There they are. Today was spent looking for Wilgy's teammates at Rico's behest. I can't do everything for you.

I have this crazy theory that juliets and DharmaHelper are teammates. Who wants to test it with me?

[MacDougall]

Don't mistake it for conviction. It's a little pingy idea in the back of my head. So don't jump down my throat here DH. If you have nothing to hide nothing will come of it.

[DharmaHelper]

Draconus is still scum for all the reasons he was scum when I already said he was less the possibility he's on Team Wilgy.

Bea flipping from Drac to Wilgy for barely any reason seemed like an "okay fuck you it won't work anyway" type vote.

FZ voting for Draconus over Wilgy, again her vote doesn't make sense in light of her previous play.

I would go as far as to say the only Drac vote that wasn't haphazardly placed there is mine. My vote is the least Wilgy savey on the wagon. I have a case on Draconus and I had been defending Wilgy, if there's something positive to be said for my behaviour around that it's that it was consistent.

I wouldn't argue to lynching any of the aforementioned. The only player right now who I'm civ reading is DH. I could see a case against everyone else.

Does a Wilgy, Lorab, Bea + FZ team make sense?

[MacDougall]

Crazy speculative theory doesn't override my actual opinion. I want to eliminate my doubt DH. I think since you have earned all this cred of the Wilgy lynch it's important that we put you under fire to see if you deserve it.

[DharmaHelper]

Crazy speculative theory doesn't override my actual opinion. I want to eliminate my doubt DH. I think since you have earned all this cred of the Wilgy lynch it's important that we put you under fire to see if you deserve it.

Go for it.

[Sorsha]

DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.

[MacDougall]

Okay I will explain what has pinged me after I finish work. I don't want to do you wrong if it turns out to be nothing so I want to make sure I am seeing what I thought I was seeing.

[DharmaHelper]

DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.

I mean, I guess I get what you're saying. Evolving thoughts are different than conflicting thoughts though.

Also, you're crazy bad. Like, slam-dunk.

[Marmot]

DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.

If someone's thought process in their change of basis requires a microscope and a bottle of whiskey to see, then I think their might be something wrong.

[Sorsha]

DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.

I mean, I guess I get what you're saying. Evolving thoughts are different than conflicting thoughts though.

Also, you're crazy bad. Like, slam-dunk.

You are crazy wrong. Crazy, slam-dunk wrong.

[Sorsha]

DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.

If someone's thought process in their change of basis requires a microscope and a bottle of whiskey to see, then I think their might be something wrong.

What does this sentence even say? Please revise.

[DharmaHelper]

DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.

If someone's thought process in their change of basis requires a microscope and a bottle of whiskey to see, then I think their might be something wrong.

What does this sentence even say? Please revise.

He's saying if the steps a person takes to go from one conclusion to the next are sketchy, their conclusions are sketchy.

[Sorsha]

DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.

If someone's thought process in their change of basis requires a microscope and a bottle of whiskey to see, then I think their might be something wrong.

What does this sentence even say? Please revise.

He's saying if the steps a person takes to go from one conclusion to the next are sketchy, their conclusions are sketchy.

Could be, but civs are often unsure. Unless you have an info role and know what you are saying is 100%. Sometimes your gut feeling gets in the way of what is really happening and vice-versa. There's two sides to every coin and having no real info can make it hard to know which one is right.

[Ricochet]

Today is not lylo but if we lynch scum today it is possible that tomorrow is lylo. The ironic thing is that if we lynch civilian today it is still not lylo. At this point lylo will only happen if one team remains due to the potential of scum killing each other. I find it extremely hard to believe that Wilgy, Zebra and Lorab are all on a team together, so I believe both teams have at least 2 players remaining. A team of 2 and a team of 3 seems like almost the only possible situation. If we lynch a player from the team with 2 scum remaining and the team with 3 has the kill tonight and manages to kill the remaining scum on the other team, tomorrow is lylo with 3 scum vs. 4 non scum.

10-2 = 7?

[Marmot]

DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.

If someone's thought process in their change of basis requires a microscope and a bottle of whiskey to see, then I think their might be something wrong.

What does this sentence even say? Please revise.

Sorry, this post was partially tongue-in-cheek.

I meant that if someone jumps from one conclusion to another, and one cannot understand that path that led between these conclusions, then that person might not be sincere.

Changing one's mind is fine, but it should be explicable.

[FZ.]

I have no idea whether Sorsha is bad, but I agree with her that flip flopping is not a baddie tell. I voted for Drac after saying I think he's a civ and DH's theory on Wilgy has the most merit to it, because then Wilgy came in and played with my mind and I didn't know who was fooling me and who wasn't and I went with my gut at that moment. It was really stupid, but that's what it was. I believe that had I been bad, I would have tried at that day to give a lot more credit to why I'm doing what I'm doing. That's wifom, but I'm just telling it like I see it.


Most of the time, I read Matt as a civ, but there are moments where I'm remembered in how he was as a baddie. I don't remember what game it was, but it was the only game I asked to be replaced in, so if any one remembers, that will help. Anyway, in that game, Matt was defending a civvie because of "evidence". This game, Matt did something very similar when he kept saying that I was probably JJJ's monopoly buddy and therefore not bad.
Someone who's played more with Matt, please tell me what you think, but those are the only two games that I remember him relying on the "evidence" so much. He's doing it now with Dom and his legacy. He's defending juliets (which in case he's really bad, is a good reason to believe she's a civ) because of Dom, and using what Dom said as a reason to believe he found MM. He does have a point, but man, I keep wondering if he's doing this as a baddie like in that game.

[Marmot]

FZ., this is the only recent game I could find where Matt was mafia. He was an Indy in Star Wars, but was lynched Day 1 anyway.

[FZ.]

FZ., this is the only recent game I could find where Matt was mafia. He was an Indy in Star Wars, but was lynched Day 1 anyway.

It's not this one. I didn't play that game. I'll try to find it, thanks.

[FZ.]

I found it. It was Pet sound mafia. I was wrong. It wasn't the game I was replaced in, but the game I died on night 1. I'll try and find what I was talking about now.

[FZ.]

Okay, here it is. This was a heist game, so it was shorter. Matt had 29 posts during the game, and devoted 5 of them to dealing with the evidence that he thought was left after I died and revealed as the cop.

1.

I don't have much to say about Luke and Matt, but they were both BC voters, which as we all know turned out to be a terrible idea. Matt thought "someone in the Luke voters is bad," which is fair enough, but then he conveniently picked BC out of those. Luke seems to be barely keeping up with the thread, while Matt has definitely been around and should know what's up. I'd like to hear more from both.

No, the vote wasn't convenient. I would've rather put my vote on Floyd, because Floyd is Luke's friend irl and knows more then anyone how new Luke is, but again, at the time only Bcornett had votes out of the three who voted him. What's more, after Boomslang's original sus of Luke, I pointed out how new Luke was, and he continued getting votes from both bcornett and Floyd.

Right now, I agree that FZ seemed to defend both Luke and Wilgy, so I won't be voting either today, however...

From a game in a half history with Floyd, it seems that he's not a frequent poster. I wouldn't put Floyd on my scumdar because of his behavior so far, but I don't want to have a LYLO situation with civ floyd at this moment. So if his contributions don't increase by the time we come close to LYLO and I'm not dead set on a better option, I would pluck him regardless of alignment.

Really?

Anyway, Floyd, why did you vote for Luke? In the post voting for him, you said "You really have to read the whole thread before posting"...so did you think he was bad or was it just a place vote which you never got around to changing?

2.

FZ was the cop. I'm pretty sure at the beginning of the game, the cop was told one civilian identity. Since the only two she seemed to defend were you and Luke, it stands to reason that one of you may be the identity she received at the start.

3.

Hey Floyd, I think you may have missed this.

Anyway, Floyd, why did you vote for Luke? In the post voting for him, you said "You really have to read the whole thread before posting"...so did you think he was bad or was it just a place vote which you never got around to changing?

Wilgy, I don't know which direction to look right now. Again, you and Luke were slightly defended by FZ. On top of that, you already have 70 posts in this game which is more then you had after like 6 day phases in Talking Heads so if you're bad again, then you're playing it way different. I made a joke earlier about it, but when Zebra starts shouting in all caps, that's typical civ behavior from Zebra I've seen in recent games.

Linki - Zebra - I see you've voted for Wilgy. Don't you think he could possibly be the civilian FZ found at the beginning of the game or no? Also, Wilgy is being waaaay different then TH.

4.

I'm not sold on Wilgy being civ. But the fact stands that FZ did say she liked him for now, and you have to admit that he is posting way more then he did as a baddy in TH, which is the only other game I've played with him (besides LC's where he replaced, I think). I think that makes sense, why don't you?

5.

Is nobody else feeling Floyd? I appreciate the answers, Floyd, but I feel like something doesn't add up with you voting for your bud like that. Wilgy earlier you said you felt Floyd was civvie, how so?

I also don't understand the votes on Wilgy so soon after we learn FZ was the cop. I'm not saying let him slide all game but so soon?

After reviewing a few ISOs...

Boomslang - Do you no longer find Tranq suspicious? It seems you were questioning him a bit and then dropped it completely and moved to Choutas.

bea - I know you're sick but do you have any suspicions?

Who wants to vote Floyd with me?

I don't know if this is the same as what he's doing here, but the first time I started thinking about it, was when he defended me when JJJ was revealed to have known another player's alignment. I let it go because other things he said made me think he was a civ. Now, his going after MM is different, because it's not defending, but I think ever since Dom's death, Matt has become more involved in the game. Like he found something to rely on. I need to view this. Would like to know what people think though.

[FZ.]

I looked at Matt's post number. Until the end of night 6, he has 2.5 pages of posts, and since then, he has another 2.5 posts. Yes, he definitely started posting a lot more since he found "evidence".
Now, the tone is different, so I don't know what to make of it, but it's a lot easier to focus on one person who has alleged evidence on them, then to focus on others. I wouldn't be surprised if Matt really believes Dom did find out something about MM, and maybe he did. But pushing for MM, especially if he turns out bad, would give Matt a lot of credit and make him look better in the eyes of the others.
I don't know if this is something we should vote by, but I had to put it out there. It's been bugging me for a while. We have the similarities of relying on evidence in this game and the one he was bad in, and the post count similarities. I think he posts less as a baddie when he doesn't know what to say. Dom dying made it easier to know what to say.

Please tell me what you think and if anyone remembers how he was in other games he was bad in, that would be helpful as well.

[FZ.]

Sorry. Golden was the monoploy character, not JJJ and here's the post I was referring to with Matt thinking I was Golden's buddy.

Starts here:

Dom - One of FZ, 3J, or MM. We're reaching "painting a target" territory, though, and I'd rather not speculate further. But now I'm wondering if I should move on from my MM sus.

Looking over Ham's posts, he seems to immediately make a rainbow with Fuzz as his top green on Day 2. Derp.

Then this:

FZ - I was thinking that you were most likely Golden's Monopoly play buddy. But if that were true, then why the never ending defense of 3J? I don't think I've played with a civ LC since I came back for Mafia, but he seems pretty legit to me in this game. I think it's odd that he's simply asking people to talk about his case, and now people are calling him bad.

bea - Do you believe Sorsha/BR to be good this game?

Voting for Dolphin Army

and this:

FZ. - civ
JaggedJimmyJay - bad

I generally disagree with most of these. Red ones are ones I disagree. Green are agree. Gold neutral.

Quote is snipped, fyi.

Anyway, I disagree with this. If Metalmarsh is neutral, and FZ and 3J are both bad, then why did Golden throw a fit over the 4 way tie? Do you believe his Monopoly buddy is someone else?

[MacDougall]

Sorry guys I got really busy tonight writing a speech for our CEO and tomorrow I will be busy until a few hours after deadline. Please do not lynch me for I am but a poor civilian.

[Matt]

That was a fun catch up, and really FZ?

Here we go...

In Star Wars, I repeatedly defended Spacedaisy, who had replaced Glorfindel. My idea was that Glor wouldn't have been replaced had he been Mafia, so I defended Daisy for it. I was wrong. But I was also civ.

In Dune, I "heavily defended Floyd" (Golden's words in that game when he was accusing me) because I did not think he was bad. I was correct. I was also civ.

As for my lack of involvement in this game until a few day phases ago, I'd like to remind everyone that I was just a baddie in Golden's Lost game, which I believe started the very same day this game started. I was invested in that game over this one because let's face it, being a baddie is more fun (IMO anyway). Once SVS systematically destroyed us, though, I became more involved here.

FZ...is there a specific reason you don't want to lynch MM?

This is not the first time you've tried to pin baddy on me this game. Earlier in the game, you tried to make out like me and LC had some kind of bad btsc going on, remember? And that was literally out of nowhere. If you'd like, I will quote the post I made calling you out for literally coming up with that out of nowhere.

And now today, I wake up, catch up on the thread, and literally, 12 hours before deadline, you come up with this out of nowhere.

FZ - Why don't you want to lynch MM, and more importantly, why are you trying to paint me as bad 12 hours before the deadline, where as it stands currently, MM has the most votes?



Anyway, back to sleep.

Before I go...

MM, what are your thoughts on FZ? Whether you answer or not, I'll be sure to ISO the two of you in regards to each other when I wake up.

Peace