[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[S~V~S]

Quin what do you think of Scotty? You want me off your back and we can lynch him?

Quin? He's been voting for you, and you are pretty fast to reply to my posts suspecting you

Let's get him!

[Quin]

Quin what do you think of Scotty? You want me off your back and we can lynch him?

yes plz

[S~V~S]

Quin what do you think of Scotty? You want me off your back and we can lynch him?

yes plz

I finally feel like I have my feet in this game for the first time since Day 2.

[Quin]

You've got really small hands.

[Prisoner 509378]

I'm going to leave Epignosis to fend for himself on each of the points you've made above, and I'll respond only to the content that pertains to me.

There should be doubt as to whether or not you are on the right track as there hasn't been a cop lynch since day 2, unless the seemer has been lynched. I generally categorize town players into three categories: shepherds, sheep and sheepdogs. The shepherds are the voices that are most trusted, they lead the majority of lynches. The sheep are your standard middling effort townfolk who will follow the shepherd that makes the most appealing case to them. The sheepdog are the main scumhunters, those tasked with finding the wolves(mafia), generally pushing every ones buttons to see whose snap has fangs. I'm a sheepdog, I've never been that great at getting people to follow my lynches despise my high success rate at finding mafia. You came into this thread acting like a shepherd and you seemed to know what you were doing but I have had my doubts lately if you have what it takes to see which group I separate the sheep into have such sharp teeth, such long claws.

There is a great deal of doubt. If there wasn't any doubt I wouldn't bother fielding these huge multi-quote exchanges.

It is impossible to lead from the back of the crowd -- to have significant influence over any game thread without being a regular contributor to that game thread.

I think your categorization of townies is incomplete and cannot accurately describe me. The best townies, in my opinion, understand the value of all three of the concepts you've described (essentially: leadership, followership, and hunting engagement), and employ all of them to some degree towards a singular end goal. To stick the "shepherd" label on me from your position in the back of the crowd and then render judgment of my performance in that shepherd role (in this case, seemingly negative) serves no purpose that can progress a town victory in this game. That isn't going to further my efforts to find and lynch the bad guys, it cannot possibly. The only thing it can do is discredit me in the eyes of other people reading what you say about me -- and if you view me as a "shepherd", a black and white leader of the "sheep", then all you've done is try to dissuade the "sheep" from taking my "shepherding" seriously. In my experience, that's a hallmark of mafia/werewolf-aligned combat against a townie's aggression, when a townie would be more inclined to simply defend oneself on the basis of thread data alone. There are exceptions to that rule, but they only tend to come from townies who cannot contain their hubris, which brings light to another concept your categorization does not recognize: reception. Some townies are just plain bad at expressing themselves in a way that appears sincere, and if what you've done here is truly sincere then I implore you to consider that.

Hence my accusation of you.

I'm not quite certain what you mean by this, because the wording is rather awkward. Is it just a roundabout way of saying I don't know how to find bad guys? I certainly haven't had much success in this game yet.

[Prisoner 509378]

chaindeath, I've left the door open for you! Please don't pass me by.

Le sigh. Chaindeath ends up on most everyones baddie list which is exactly what the cops want. You all lynch me and it leads to their victory, since we the town can't really afford to lynch any more townies.

He thinks that Scotty, Epignois, Nero, and Serge are mafia.

*prepares himself for the attacks since he said something and that is clearly unacceptable given the current state of the game.*

I'm open to hearing you out, chainypoo. What about those four gives you the heebie-jeebies?

Remember, if you can just work your way into changing some people's minds about you, then we can blow this game open. Even in this dire late phase, the game can still be won with some trust. Help me and others to trust you.

[Quin]

I like that metaphor, though

[Prisoner 509378]

Could one of Scotty's newest opponents give me some direction? I'm not vehemently opposed to the notion that he's a cop, but I haven't paid him as close attention as many others and I am a bit lost right now with regards to this stark change in climate.

[Sloonei]

I'm still reading Scotty as town but am interested in hearing a case against him too.

Also my 4-man scum team features one or both of Epi & sig, with Elohcin, Soneji, and Black Rock or chaindeath. I don't know. I'm uncertain on too many things and need to read. I don't have anywhere to be for a couple of days so I'll be able to do the things I want to do in here.
I also am still lingering on Turnip Head. I'm not convinced his no-lynch was town-influenced.

[Prisoner 509378]

Also, getting the rest of you folks to talk about Soneji has been like pulling teeth. Only S~V~S seems to have acknowledged him at all. He and I have had a lengthy exchange recently, and he has put up a couple of cases against Epignosis. I want to know what other people think of his contributions of late -- his post count is low, but I've at least been successful in charging a little emotion into his stuff and maybe that will help people to get a more conclusive read. Talk to me.

[Prisoner 509378]

I also am still lingering on Turnip Head. I'm not convinced his no-lynch was town-influenced.

What other cause(s) do you have in mind?

[S~V~S]

Also, getting the rest of you folks to talk about Soneji has been like pulling teeth. Only S~V~S seems to have acknowledged him at all. He and I have had a lengthy exchange recently, and he has put up a couple of cases against Epignosis. I want to know what other people think of his contributions of late -- his post count is low, but I've at least been successful in charging a little emotion into his stuff and maybe that will help people to get a more conclusive read. Talk to me.

He is bad, imo. He was really blendy before so I had no real opinion of him & only defaulted to bad. I could not remember a single thing he said

But his recent responses to questions leave me feeling a more concrete reason to suspect him.

Linki, yeah, I kind of agree with Sloonei re TH, but have no credible alternative to Occams razor, that would demonstrate that he isn't a civ. And the razor says he is. Especially with Boomslang, THs alternative in the lynch TH survived, being lynched and not surviving.

[Sloonei]

I also am still lingering on Turnip Head. I'm not convinced his no-lynch was town-influenced.

What other cause(s) do you have in mind?

A cop ability to stop a lynch somewhere. I can't present any evidence that such a thing exists, but I don't disbelieve it could be possible.

[Quin]

I called Soneji out for town reading me with no concrete material and he said it was just because of an overall assessment of my posts. I asked him for specific examples but never got them. He'd probably place an orange on my rainbow list, it just seems like he wanted the argument to fade out and be forgotten. It shall not.

[Sloonei]

Also, getting the rest of you folks to talk about Soneji has been like pulling teeth. Only S~V~S seems to have acknowledged him at all. He and I have had a lengthy exchange recently, and he has put up a couple of cases against Epignosis. I want to know what other people think of his contributions of late -- his post count is low, but I've at least been successful in charging a little emotion into his stuff and maybe that will help people to get a more conclusive read. Talk to me.

I will bump Soneji to the top of my priority list. I just named him as a suspect without doing any proper research, and you're right, he's been a horribly undiscussed player all game long, in a game where the scum have quite clearly just been coasting along under the radar.

[Prisoner 509378]

Another question about Soneji for people not named Soneji:

All of these are valid scumtells and Epi does display them in the posts you brought up and elsewhere. I am going to take your assertion as low level bait, so I can maintain some illusion that towns current leader knows what hes talking about.

Is this truly a suspicious thing for him to say, or am I blinded by my own bias and ego in the face of this criticism?

[Sloonei]

Another question about Soneji for people not named Soneji:

All of these are valid scumtells and Epi does display them in the posts you brought up and elsewhere. I am going to take your assertion as low level bait, so I can maintain some illusion that towns current leader knows what hes talking about.

Is this truly a suspicious thing for him to say, or am I blinded by my own bias and ego in the face of this criticism?

I do not know the context of it, but the waffliness of his language in this post does resonate scummily to me.
Real authentic English words are being used in this post.

[Prisoner 509378]

Another question about Soneji for people not named Soneji:

All of these are valid scumtells and Epi does display them in the posts you brought up and elsewhere. I am going to take your assertion as low level bait, so I can maintain some illusion that towns current leader knows what hes talking about.

Is this truly a suspicious thing for him to say, or am I blinded by my own bias and ego in the face of this criticism?

I do not know the context of it, but the waffliness of his language in this post does resonate scummily to me.
Real authentic English words are being used in this post.

Basic context: he said it to me after I called him out for lending support to my fake case against Epignosis.

[Sloonei]

My perspective of Soneji changed earlier today when I looked at the Champions tournament thread and found out he was a participant in last year's tournament. The appearance of effort is no longer enough of a town tell for him, and that was all he had going for him earlier. I still need to give him an honest ISO because I've not done that since early in the game.

[Soneji]

I called Soneji out for town reading me with no concrete material and he said it was just because of an overall assessment of my posts. I asked him for specific examples but never got them. He'd probably place an orange on my rainbow list, it just seems like he wanted the argument to fade out and be forgotten. It shall not.

Unlike some others, I follow through with things I have said I will do. I spent all of my free time between my two jobs making that post on Epi. I have tomorrow off until night, I will address you then.

[Prisoner 509378]

Regarding the chaindeath/Nerolunar dynamic: I might assert that if one of those two is to be lynched next (if), it should be Nero and not chaindeath. I think they're very easy to link to one another, but that has a lot more to do with what Nero has said than what chaindeath has said. Given the chance that the link was deliberately drawn by a cop Nero, I think he should be gone first. If anyone has reason to trust Nero, then by all means speak out.

[Tangrowth]

Night 8

"Did you see this?" Daisy held up a newspaper and tapped the headline.

"Yeah, Syndicate got invited to participate in another Championship, it's pretty exciting. Probably the best thing for our business since prohibition," MP answered.

"I think the impact is even better right for this very moment."

"I don't get what you mean."

She grinned, "Controlling the rowdy crowds means the cops are too busy to arrest anyone. This is very good news for us."



????? has escaped arrest by the Police.

It is now Day 9.

You have 48 hours to find a policeman. Good luck, goons!

[Prisoner 509378]

Excellent. Quite a lot hinged on that night phase. We're still in it, if only barely.

[Prisoner 509378]

No prison break though.

Maybe next time.

[Quin]

I would prefer to lynch Nero before chaindeath as well. I'd rather lynch Scotty before both of them, though.

linki: woo! I'm alive!

[S~V~S]

I would prefer to lynch Nero before chaindeath as well. I'd rather lynch Scotty before both of them, though.

linki: woo! I'm alive!

Well, then you are my guy.

Scotty

[Quin]

Scotty

[Sloonei]

Dom and Elohcin aren't on the poll.

[Prisoner 509378]

Could one of Scotty's newest opponents give me some direction? I'm not vehemently opposed to the notion that he's a cop, but I haven't paid him as close attention as many others and I am a bit lost right now with regards to this stark change in climate.

If nothing else I'm willing to play follower with the core I trust, but a little guidance would help (if it doesn't expose anyone).

[S~V~S]

But Serge is,who Eloh replaced. Who did Dom replace?

[Prisoner 509378]

Dom and Elohcin aren't on the poll.

Their predecessors are.

HOSTS: Might have been an error?

linki: Dom replaced Draconus

[Tangrowth]

Ugh, sorry, let me fix that.

[Prisoner 509378]

Posting this again for the HOSTS in case they overlooked it before.

I know no question has been asked, but we have received questions about this via PM, and I want to clarify for all prisoners and main game players, since this hasn't been clarified.

Although Warden has access to the sockpuppet, Daisy and I do as well. For Prison Yard trials to be effective and timely, as well as to obfuscate the Warden's identity, your hosts have posted using that account in the prison. In addition, many posts by Warden in prison have thus far been direct or twisted quotes from Shawshank Redemption.

So while prisoners and main game players are more than welcome to hunt for Warden using whatever methods they wish, Daisy and I personally advise against reading too much into Warden's posting timing, language, etc. in prison threads as a sole basis for hunting down that player.

HOSTS:

Did you post using the warden's sock account in this game thread at any point?

[Sloonei]

Cool. I am voting for Elohcin. Thoughts?

[Tangrowth]

Dom and Elohcin aren't on the poll.

Their predecessors are.

HOSTS: Might have been an error?

linki: Dom replaced Draconus

This is fixed. Yes, it was an error, I've got too much I'm trying to do at once and accidentally used the predecessor names.

[Tangrowth]

Posting this again for the HOSTS in case they overlooked it before.

I know no question has been asked, but we have received questions about this via PM, and I want to clarify for all prisoners and main game players, since this hasn't been clarified.

Although Warden has access to the sockpuppet, Daisy and I do as well. For Prison Yard trials to be effective and timely, as well as to obfuscate the Warden's identity, your hosts have posted using that account in the prison. In addition, many posts by Warden in prison have thus far been direct or twisted quotes from Shawshank Redemption.

So while prisoners and main game players are more than welcome to hunt for Warden using whatever methods they wish, Daisy and I personally advise against reading too much into Warden's posting timing, language, etc. in prison threads as a sole basis for hunting down that player.

HOSTS:

Did you post using the warden's sock account in this game thread at any point?

Good question.

[Quin]

Could one of Scotty's newest opponents give me some direction? I'm not vehemently opposed to the notion that he's a cop, but I haven't paid him as close attention as many others and I am a bit lost right now with regards to this stark change in climate.

If nothing else I'm willing to play follower with the core I trust, but a little guidance would help (if it doesn't expose anyone).

You've likely heard everything I've had to say on it, so I assume you're waiting on someone else. If not, just filter in his name on my ISO.

[Prisoner 509378]

Cool beans, thanks for the answers!

[Prisoner 509378]

Could one of Scotty's newest opponents give me some direction? I'm not vehemently opposed to the notion that he's a cop, but I haven't paid him as close attention as many others and I am a bit lost right now with regards to this stark change in climate.

If nothing else I'm willing to play follower with the core I trust, but a little guidance would help (if it doesn't expose anyone).

You've likely heard everything I've had to say on it, so I assume you're waiting on someone else. If not, just filter in his name on my ISO.

Yeah I'm primarily concerned with this recent S~V~S epiphany. Some part of me is recoiling against the concern that she and Black Rock, as cop team mates, are forming a coalition of less trusted players (like yourself) to vote out a townie and win the game. :P

[S~V~S]

Could one of Scotty's newest opponents give me some direction? I'm not vehemently opposed to the notion that he's a cop, but I haven't paid him as close attention as many others and I am a bit lost right now with regards to this stark change in climate.

If nothing else I'm willing to play follower with the core I trust, but a little guidance would help (if it doesn't expose anyone).

I will pull quotes in the AM, but really, it's my gut. That is how I play. He *feels* to me the same as he did in LOST: Again. Where he mostly posted fluff and was Mr Feelgood, all OT happy happy. Then, when most people thought I was civ, he started making pokes towards me.And they did not *feel* sincere, like they did not feel sincere here. His whole "Well, we gree too much so you must be bad heh heh" felt incredibly forced to me. Just like he did in LOST Again.

Plus with his crazy travel stuff, he would fit Epis profile. But more than anything, he just feesl superbad to me.

Revoting Scotty

Linki, WTF? Why would I toast Fuzz like that? That would be a bitch move.

[Quin]

Cool. I am voting for Elohcin. Thoughts?

I'll look at whoever she replaced and get back to you. She herself hasn't done anything but go with the majority and I can't say anything definitive about that.

linki: I'd like SVS to compile a case, too. Right now though, I am very confident Scotty is a policeman so I'll take whatever votes I can if it means my desired result.

[Prisoner 509378]

Could one of Scotty's newest opponents give me some direction? I'm not vehemently opposed to the notion that he's a cop, but I haven't paid him as close attention as many others and I am a bit lost right now with regards to this stark change in climate.

If nothing else I'm willing to play follower with the core I trust, but a little guidance would help (if it doesn't expose anyone).

I will pull quotes in the AM

I encourage it.

Linki, WTF? Why would I toast Fuzz like that? That would be a bitch move.

That wouldn't be anything close to the boldest bussing move I've seen in a Mafia game. I have bad memories. I'm not saying you did that, but I'm not going to wholly discard the possibility either. We're at Day 9 now and this game has been a cluster. Something's clearly up, right?

[Prisoner 509378]

Nerolunar

[Sloonei]

Cool. I am voting for Elohcin. Thoughts?

I'll look at whoever she replaced and get back to you. She herself hasn't done anything but go with the majority and I can't say anything definitive about that.

linki: I'd like SVS to compile a case, too. Right now though, I am very confident Scotty is a policeman so I'll take whatever votes I can if it means my desired result.

She replaced Serge, who did nothing.

[S~V~S]

Serge was rather suspish during the Fuzz wagon

[Prisoner 509378]

Theories on the failed night kill? The dons seem to be the only applicable roles I can see here, unless DDL was the seemer and the secret role is still there. If they targeted you know who, that'd seem kinda silly on their part. Good evidence that both of them are in the game still?

[Prisoner 509378]

Well I guess they must be since they can only be lynched, which would reveal them. Nevermind me, I'm silly.

[Sloonei]

So was Epignosis. I still need to look at the recent interactions between him and Mr Prisoner more in depth. I have a fantasy baseball draft tonight and don't know how awake I'll be after that so I may not get to things tonight, but tomorrow morning is wide open for mafia I promise. I am getting tired of talking about things I intend to do in this game and look forward to actually doing them.

[Sloonei]

Theories on the failed night kill? The dons seem to be the only applicable roles I can see here, unless DDL was the seemer and the secret role is still there. If they targeted you know who, that'd seem kinda silly on their part. Good evidence that both of them are in the game still?

I also don't see anything besides the Dons that could explain it, but I'd be surprised if they haven't figured out who the dons are yet. We had multiple failed arrests earlier in the game as well.

[Quin]

I looked at Serge, and for the most part, I liked him. Even in his inactivity, he asks questions, covers all his bases and he's working toward a goal. But when the GTH reads came around, I stopped liking him as much. His reads were surprising in comparison to what he'd previous posted in the thread. I picked out a few of his posts that made me feel all weird, and I'll give some general thoughts on them.

Spoiler: show

Wow, that lynch came out from nowhere. The poll would have me believe that ika got lynched but the first page isn't updated yet. I'm not really sure what happened there. I'll catch up in an hour or two, hopefully.

This doesn't sound sincere nor honest at all.

Spoiler: show

I'm not familiar with CFD and seeing it in action made me think that the traitor plan would have had a chance to work if you're all this efficient and easy to rally.

I do not think that the scum team would all rally to save a teammate in a day as early as this, with the number of players available.

As for scum being on Fuzz's bandwagon, I think that's more likely. SVS's post against Fuzz was brief but enough to produce the CFD, and if only a few of the cops were online at that time then what better way to earn points as a civ? Also, the poll doesn't even show Fuzz as the one that has the most votes. Stroke of luck?

That being said, I still don't have a firm grasp of the details of the events leading to the lynch.

PS: DrWilgy why are you voting at night?

I don't know why this puts me off. I highlighted a specific bit that I read and didn't like. It made me re-read the entire post three times. If anybody has any thoughts on this post, tell me, because I don't know what to think.

Spoiler: show

Well let me start with you. The poll would have me believe you voted first for Fuzz, and there seems to be a case since Fuzz didn't even have the most votes by the end of the day. Maybe you were even confident that the CFD won't work. Where I'm from, these things don't happen. We pick one of the leading lynches, proceed to lynch, and pick up the pieces from that. However, I am more inclined to believe you're civ since I don't have any erstwhile bad gut feel from you before or after that lynch.

SVS is a civ. He went for that Fuzz bit and ran with it, and unless Fuzz wanted to be bussed I wouldn't dream of doing it as scum. With the drought of replacements and the size of the game maye Fuzz wanted to be replaced and since that didn't look possible, maybe he wanted to go as an asset to his team. There is a possibility, but it is very remote.

The people who jumped at ika on the last moment probably really want ika to get lynched.

The people who jumped on Fuzz at the last moment didn't want ika or gleam to get lynched, but that begs the questionquestion why not vote for Epignosis whom I recall has a few votes(two, I think) as a headstart. That being said, I don't recall how many votes Fuzz had before.

If I were to pull a thread through all of these posts and get something from it, it tells me that he doesn't know why fuzz was lynched with less votes. In other words, he wasn't aware of the presence of the loan shark. I don't see a civ not knowing that, but I don't want to say he's scum based on that alone.