[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

#7452

Changed to Epignosis. A quick scan of some of soneji's more recent content has me feeling better about him. Though yet another doubt has popped into my mind upon changing my vote: soneji has become much more active in the last couple real life days. Could this be because he's a coo who sees the finish line and wants to secure his victory?

#7453

Hrm. Epi is always the one bitching about people making up fake real life excuses to avoid mafia threads.

It would be kinda ironic if the first time he did it himself he got snagged

#7454

My vote for Epi has nothing to do with his surprise Blooper visit.

#7455

No I don't think it makes him bad; I practice thread avoidance more when civ than bad, and it would not surprise me if EPi were to do the same. I just think it's funny.

#7456

Anyone want to join me in voting for Don/Draconus/Mongoose? Collectively they've provided almost no content. Dom hasn't been inactive since he showed up, but his posts do not represent anything that would be diffocult for a scum player to fake. I think we've definitely tot lurker scums on our hands in this game and he fits the bill better than anyone else.

#7457

Dom, not Don.

#7458

No, I would rather you join me in voting for that wily Scotty.

#7459

But I still don't think Scotty is bad.

#7460

Sorry guys canada is proving to have very limited wifi, slash I have had rehearsal for a good chunk due to a new guy coming in. So I'm verylimited. Sucks that I'm leading in the poll right now. But I don't have time to respond to whoever is on my back. Will probably have to save myself before eod

#7461

Changing vote to Epi. Not just a save vote, but I think Epi really wanted to seal the deal for cops with that sig Case.

#7462

Someone mentioned this, but I wanted to make it clear since we had not commented on it:

sig's vote for Epignosis will NOT count, so the current tally on Epi is 2, not 3.

Prisoner 509378 · #7463

Right now I am wearing a full roll of tin foil on my head thinking about an Epignosis - S~V~S - Black Rock cop team.

#7464

That's a lot of foil, mon.

#7465

You trusted me before, I wish you would trust me again. I have a pretty good feel for you, and I am not ready to forfeit any semblance of trust forever over one game.

#7466

I can't see SVS being a cop, and even moreso I can't see a cop vouching for another cop so strongly the way SVS has for Black Rock. I am town reading them both and this is one of the few strong reads I have in this game at this point. If SVS is scum she thoroughly deserves to win.

Prisoner 509378 · #7467

S~V~S wrote:You trusted me before, I wish you would trust me again. I have a pretty good feel for you, and I am not ready to forfeit any semblance of trust forever over one game.

Trust is the most important component of town winning Mafia games, so rest assured I place a great deal of value in trust. I also don't relinquish it easily. Special circumstances are required, and I at least have to consider whether a total collective failure by everyone without a "cop" role card from Days 2 through 8 (and a half) should be "special" enough. I'll state the case in more meaningful terms than just arbitrary tinfoiling and allow others to chirp in however they may -- you included of course.

S~V~S's biggest defense since Day 2 has been, understandably, her role in the lynch of RadicalFuzz. That's no small defense. Also, when accused it has been the defense she has provided for herself in so many words -- things along the lines of "why would I do that to Fuzz? It'd be such a bitch move."

I would say one thing: I disagree. I don't think it would be a bitch move, and it certainly wouldn't be a strategically poor move. To judge whether enough likelihood exists to even bother with this I think we must assess the players involved.

S~V~S: do I think, given what I know of her or have heard of her, that she'd bus Fuzz in that manner on her own? Probably not.

RadicalFuzz: do I think, given what I know of him and have heard of him, that he'd be willing to recommend his team mates roast the hell out of him for civilian credit? Yes, absolutely.

So, with the notion that "it's a bitch move" provided, whether one agrees or not, I think some of that "bitchiness" is turned to "savvy" when Fuzz's persona is understood in this manner. It can't be a bitch move if he asked for it himself, or if it was discussed in BTSC and he agreed to it. Fuzz loves being suspected, and I suspect he even enjoys being lynched. That's his M.O.

Why attach S~V~S to Black Rock? Obvious reasons.

Why attach S~V~S to Epignosis? I'm not sure I've seen much effort from either of them to get a conclusive read on one another. From Epi's perspective it's perhaps more understandable -- she has a fantastic defense and that alone can deter his attention. From S~V~S's perspective though, I find myself wondering what she really thinks of Epi. I've seen town GTH reads and vague support lent to him, but I don't quite know why. They've been oddly distant from one another all game long as far as I can tell, and that''s a curious thing since they've both played a prominent role in it.

Prisoner 509378 · #7468

I'm not asking anyone to turn on S~V~S, and I'm definitely not going to condone her lynch on Day 9. That'd be worse than foolhardy. But circumstance demands thorough reassessment of everyone. We'd all be remiss to ignore possibilities that genuinely warrant consideration.

#7469

Thats a lot of damn foil.

#7470

So you don't think Scotty is bad, like not at all?

#7471

You would rather join him in suspecting me than believe I could be right?

Prisoner 509378 · #7472

S~V~S wrote:So you don't think Scotty is bad, like not at all?

I'm definitely considering that too. I think his demand that Quin be lynched now and then him if Quin is town is one of the more suspicious comments to happen in this thread lately. He's also on the short end of the process of elimination stick, because my desire to lynch Nerolunar was really contested by his recent responses to me. He couldn't have sounded much more genuine.

As for your own read on Scotty and your attempts to explain it -- I appreciate the effort. Understand that it's a very specific inspiration for your read, and it's focused upon his treatment of you, which means I have to ask myself what potential biases exist. But he's someone I would probably be willing to lynch if I had to decide right now.

Prisoner 509378 · #7473

S~V~S, could you try to describe why you trust Epignosis, if you do?

#7474

Prisoner 509378 wrote:I'm not asking anyone to turn on S~V~S, and I'm definitely not going to condone her lynch on Day 9. That'd be worse than foolhardy. But circumstance demands thorough reassessment of everyone. We'd all be remiss to ignore possibilities that genuinely warrant consideration.

I've had all these thoughts as well and agree with you for bringing them up. But even with that, my conclusion on the matter is what I stated above. I think SVS is town. I am interested in hearing about Scotty largely because I trust SVS, and to a lesser extent also trust Quin.

#7475

Well, that is my comparison for him; how he interacted with me in another game. That is the best basis for a gut read in a one bad team game, IMO.

He is bad. I will guarantee it as best I can without info.

Linki, I don't trust him specifically. I don't *distrust* him; this is different. I think he would not have harped on an easily lynched person all game if he was bad, that's for sure. I am getting more of a guileless feel from him than a sinister one, and Epi sometimes has problems hiding his sinister cause he loves it so much

Had sig flipped BAD that would have made me feel worse about Epi. Although it is still possible about him being Seemer, I suppose. MP modkills for faux direct claims too, iirc.

#7476

But that is one of those things we have no way of knowing

Prisoner 509378 · #7477

S~V~S, another question: were you in the game Epignosis referenced a while back in this one (I think Death Note)? I ask because in that game he said he spent a ton of time and energy trying to get FZ lynched, and in the end it turned out he was wrong (as a townie). He lamented that it had been a waste of his time then, to do all that work against his own win condition.

In the face of MP preparing to modkill sig and essentially confirming the Messagero claim (assuming it's legit, and I don't think a seemer would be allowed to benefit from their role if they were modkilled, they'd flip bad), Epignosis lamented in this game about the time he had wasted. Is this a parallel I should care about?

#7478

Prisoner 509378 wrote:S~V~S, another question: were you in the game Epignosis referenced a while back in this one (I think Death Note)? I ask because in that game he said he spent a ton of time and energy trying to get FZ lynched, and in the end it turned out he was wrong (as a townie). He lamented that it had been a waste of his time then, to do all that work against his own win condition.

In the face of MP preparing to modkill sig and essentially confirming the Messagero claim (assuming it's legit, and I don't think a seemer would be allowed to benefit from their role if they were modkilled, they'd flip bad), Epignosis lamented in this game about the time he had wasted. Is this a parallel I should care about?

Why couldn't the Seemer intentionally trigger a modkill? It could be a smart move. I could see this host allowing it.

Anyhow, I died early in that game. I was daykilled at 2:30 in the afternoon, and found out I was dead in the middle of linkitis

I don't remember any of what happened in Death Note after I died.

#7479

I saw Bass intentionally out himself to get LC lynched with a faux thread error. He pretended to be accidentally posting BTSC directed at LC in the thread. He was lynched, and LC followed.

Prisoner 509378 · #7480

Sloonei:

I think Scotty has been guilty of two highly suspicious things since S~V~S turned on him. First, he threw chaindeath in front of her bullets and essentially said "hey hey hey let's lynch this guy instead!". It didn't strike me as self-defense, it struck me as trying to take advantage of an easy lynchee (chaindeath) in a crucial ratio scenario. Second, he made that demand I've referenced a few times that Quin be lynched and then him next if he's wrong (in a phase in which one mislynch might be all we get anyway).

What do you think of those things?

#7481

But as I said, there is no way of knowing. But if sig is the Seemer, I would be way more suspect of Epi, since he hosted that game that Bass did that, as well as the way he pushed low level suspish at sig all game.

Prisoner 509378 · #7482

S~V~S wrote:Why couldn't the Seemer intentionally trigger a modkill? It could be a smart move. I could see this host allowing it.

I couldn't. MP specifically refused to allow Draconus to benefit from intentionally breaking the self-voting rule in Talking Heads. He wouldn't allow sig to benefit from intentionally breaking the roleclaim rule in this game.

That's way more tinfoil than what I said.

Prisoner 509378 · #7483

I'm going to go ahead and say that I am 100% certain sig was not the seemer.

#7484

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Why couldn't the Seemer intentionally trigger a modkill? It could be a smart move. I could see this host allowing it.
I couldn't. MP specifically refused to allow Draconus to benefit from intentionally breaking the self-voting rule in Talking Heads. He wouldn't allow sig to benefit from intentionally breaking the roleclaim rule in this game.

That's way more tinfoil than what I said.

No it isn't. That is a different scenario. MP loves him some baddie plotting. You would be surprised at what he might allow baddie teams to do. I have played all of his games except one or two and no one brings the crazy shit like MP.

But again, no way of knowing until post game.

Prisoner 509378 · #7485

HOSTS:

If this is something you're able to clarify: would you, under any circumstances, allow a player to intentionally get modkilled?

#7486

But in any case, if sig were bad, Epi would go way up on my radar. The fact that people are suspecting him for sig flipping civ means you folks don't know Epi very well, imo.

#7487

I am out of work now. I should be home round about when the lynch ends.

I hope you lynch Scotty. But most of you aren't people who know about my gut. I just really, really believe it.

Prisoner 509378 · #7488

Scotty

It's also a lot easier to vote alongside the current Scotty wagon than the current Epi wagon.

#7489

Prisoner 509378 wrote:HOSTS:

If this is something you're able to clarify: would you, under any circumstances, allow a player to intentionally get modkilled?

No, though naturally a player could intentionally break the rules (by role outing) and there technically wouldn't be any way for me to know whether they did it intentionally or not, so other than those kinds of situations, no.

To further clarify, there's no way I would let the Seemer benefit from their role use in the event of a modkill. A Seemer, if modkilled, would flip as Seemer.

Prisoner 509378 · #7490

Sloonei wrote:Anyone want to join me in voting for Don/Draconus/Mongoose? Collectively they've provided almost no content. Dom hasn't been inactive since he showed up, but his posts do not represent anything that would be diffocult for a scum player to fake. I think we've definitely tot lurker scums on our hands in this game and he fits the bill better than anyone else.

I think the most suspicious thing to happen in the Domcongoose post histories is Draconus's flaky late vote for DDL during his lynch. The is lessened slightly by the fact that I think DDL is the most likely seemer of all the current dead/arrested town flips, but it's what my mind goes back to every time I think about that player slot. It's hard to make much of a read on him though, and the same goes for Elohcin. They're pretty much blanks, and it sucks because their roles might decide the game if we can start this comeback.

Prisoner 509378 · #7491

If we can prolong this game enough, I can't wait for the inevitable moment when people start to turn on me.

#7492

The two possibilities I see when I look at Scotty's recent behavior are an annoyed townie who does not like that the direction in the thread has started to turn toward him, or a baddie who's trying to discredit the case against him by acting like it's poorly constructed, but never actually addressing it.

I have an easier time seeing the former in this post:

Scotty wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:You're not even casing chaindeath at this point, Scotty. You're conplaining that he's a better lynch than you are. That's not how townies talk.
That's not how your perception of townies talk. I am townie and trying to diffuse ridiculousness. And I've already cased him. I've already brought up what I originally thought of him, and then brought in his responses to my case and how it assuaged me slightly, but there are still discrepancies, Nostradamus.

Anyway, are you saying I'm not a townie now?

This post has a tone of just wanting to keep the town on the right track.

But I can sense the latter in posts like these:

Spoiler: show

Scotty wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Also, getting the rest of you folks to talk about Soneji has been like pulling teeth. Only S~V~S seems to have acknowledged him at all. He and I have had a lengthy exchange recently, and he has put up a couple of cases against Epignosis. I want to know what other people think of his contributions of late -- his post count is low, but I've at least been successful in charging a little emotion into his stuff and maybe that will help people to get a more conclusive read. Talk to me.
He is bad, imo. He was really blendy before so I had no real opinion of him & only defaulted to bad. I could not remember a single thing he said

But his recent responses to questions leave me feeling a more concrete reason to suspect him.

Linki, yeah, I kind of agree with Sloonei re TH, but have no credible alternative to Occams razor, that would demonstrate that he isn't a civ. And the razor says he is. Especially with Boomslang, THs alternative in the lynch TH survived, being lynched and not surviving.

S~V~S wrote:
Quin wrote:I would prefer to lynch Nero before chaindeath as well. I'd rather lynch Scotty before both of them, though.

linki: woo! I'm alive!
Well, then you are my guy.

Scotty
All right, trigger finger. Where the hell did this come from? So Soneji is bad, but you're willing to throw caution to the wind for me after having no real problems with me all game? I understand Quin wants me dead because he is bad, but the reason I even brought you up in the first place is because this: down the line I reassessed why I and other town-looking people hadn't been killed yet. And the town perspective as a whole has had you dancing in Disneyland this entire time, and it made me wonder why no one had killed you. Don't you think that deserves some scrutiny? It's not about me painting you or whatever.
S~V~S wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Could one of Scotty's newest opponents give me some direction? I'm not vehemently opposed to the notion that he's a cop, but I haven't paid him as close attention as many others and I am a bit lost right now with regards to this stark change in climate.
If nothing else I'm willing to play follower with the core I trust, but a little guidance would help (if it doesn't expose anyone).
I will pull quotes in the AM, but really, it's my gut. That is how I play. He *feels* to me the same as he did in LOST: Again. Where he mostly posted fluff and was Mr Feelgood, all OT happy happy. Then, when most people thought I was civ, he started making pokes towards me.And they did not *feel* sincere, like they did not feel sincere here. His whole "Well, we gree too much so you must be bad heh heh" felt incredibly forced to me. Just like he did in LOST Again.

Plus with his crazy travel stuff, he would fit Epis profile. But more than anything, he just feesl superbad to me.

Revoting Scotty

Linki, WTF? Why would I toast Fuzz like that? That would be a bitch move.
Just like your gut reads that Soneji is bad? But whatever.

Pulling incomplete meta out of a hat again, SVS. I don't have a baddie game. People see what they want to see. Look at my civ games (which is most of them). Was I not a little off the wall in those too? This is major WIFOM but I do that shit regardless of my alignment.

I've been pointing out that we have very similar suspicions all game. Could be coincidental, but since I had been viewing you as civ the entire time, my reads felt that much more informed and confident.

Roasting me for my travel is I guess a pertinent reason. But you're just seeing what you want to see. I ain't no warden.

I want to view you as civ. I really do. But I can't help but think you're leading a charge against me as a diversion. You'd rather me out before chaindeath? Like, really? Chaindeath. Let's say hypothetically that I were bad. You think I look worse than chaindeath? I think Boom looked worse than chaindeath, so I really don't want you to make the same mistake about me or lump me into a crowd that should be dying because of how fishy they have played all game, not a sudden tunnel realization

I don't know a lot in this game but I know there are several better options out there than me.

Scotty wrote:Also I am not saying chaindeath is the best lynch option today. He might be, who knows. But I'm saying that there are more suspicious people that deserve a vote before me. Honestly. And if you can actually build a case against me besides "he's acting fishy" or "null" or "I can't remember a thing he has said" look through my posts and give me something to respond to. I think I have been very forthright this game and have had a case of SilverWolf coming where I feel like I'm not even being considered in my views.

Spoiler: show

I remember Scotty dismissing me, as it turned out, totally legitimate case against him on Day 2 in Rocky & Bullwinkle in a similar manner to the way he's dismissing this case now. The difference is that he OMGUS'd me a bit harder than he is here, but SVS is a hard player to OMGUS. I suppose he has been doing it to Quin for a while though.

#7493

wtf, RIP sig

Sorry that I haven't had time for this. Where should I vote? As of right now I don't want to vote for Epignosis or Scotty but I also haven't read the cases on them. I feel good about both of them from what I've read. chaindeath, Domconus and Soneji are all options for me.

Prisoner 509378 · #7494

Turnip Head wrote:wtf, RIP sig

Sorry that I haven't had time for this. Where should I vote? As of right now I don't want to vote for Epignosis or Scotty but I also haven't read the cases on them. I feel good about both of them from what I've read. chaindeath, Domconus and Soneji are all options for me.

If you have to vote immediately, I think Soneji is the best choice of those three. You'd be better of exploring the thread for yourself though.

Prisoner 509378 · #7495

Sloonei, do you see a town motivation for this:

Scotty wrote:Lynch Quin and if he turns up good, lynch me. He won't. Assuredly.

#7496

Yeah, I'm going to try to ISO all 3 soon. I don't have to vote right away, but I did want to express my resistance to the other two wagons.

#7497

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Sloonei, do you see a town motivation for this:

Scotty wrote:Lynch Quin and if he turns up good, lynch me. He won't. Assuredly.

I could see this post coming from a confident townie. I don't agree with the sentiment, but I don't think it has to be a baddie post.

#7498

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:HOSTS:

If this is something you're able to clarify: would you, under any circumstances, allow a player to intentionally get modkilled?
No, though naturally a player could intentionally break the rules (by role outing) and there technically wouldn't be any way for me to know whether they did it intentionally or not, so other than those kinds of situations, no.

To further clarify, there's no way I would let the Seemer benefit from their role use in the event of a modkill. A Seemer, if modkilled, would flip as Seemer.

Then I feel better about Epi

#7499

S~V~S wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:HOSTS:

If this is something you're able to clarify: would you, under any circumstances, allow a player to intentionally get modkilled?
No, though naturally a player could intentionally break the rules (by role outing) and there technically wouldn't be any way for me to know whether they did it intentionally or not, so other than those kinds of situations, no.

To further clarify, there's no way I would let the Seemer benefit from their role use in the event of a modkill. A Seemer, if modkilled, would flip as Seemer.
Then I feel better about Epi

Why?

Prisoner 509378 · #7500

Another point that might imply old mindsets in this game need to be discarded or at least overhauled:

The Day 2 CFD has motivated a great deal of everything that has progressed since it took place. We've finally eliminated two of its biggest "offenders" (Boomrique and sig). Both town. We eliminated the worst-looking Fuzz voter (DDL). Town. Quin is alive, and most people are taking his side now.

Seemer theories aside, something's up.

It's over! Would you play a sequel?