Mafia Championship Scrimmage [END]

[sig]

I'm switching back to MM since the Ika thing didn't take off. However, I look forward to him getting strung up and me being proven right soon. :P

VOTE METALMARSH89

If I had to pick between Golden, IWAY, and Sloonie. I'd need to pick from Sloonie/Matt and IWAY. The main issue I've got with voting for them is that Matt is with me on MM, this could be distancing or I could be wrong about one, but I'm unsure and need to think about it. I don't want to lynch IWAY until MM is gone.

Why you always after me siggy?

What do you think Wilgy?

To be fair, I was slightly after Sloonie first this game. However, I'm more confident in MM being bad then you.
I'm not sure, he has an excuse for being more inactive, but when he is here he doesn't seem to do much I dislike that. I want to keep and eye on him but won't be voting for him tonight.

[Marco]

What're the thoughts on golden's reveal that he noticed MM hinting MP was PR day 1. And he scum read MM even though scum didn't attack MP last night.

Golden acknowledged that all the events relevant to this topic happened on Day 2. If he is scum, he couldn't have gone into Night 1 with this knowledge.

Ah. Strange that he called it early game then.

Anyway, my assertion was that if he thought you hinted MP being PR, then his scum read on you is odd as you would've attacked MP. A bit moot now, since he apparently meant today, not early game.

@IAWY, I'm curious about why you suspect me. Looking forward to your explanation.

I don't suspect you. Haha that's the problem, I have a null read on you, so I want to hear from you (specifically right now in this case because I heard from Golden already and you two are going back and forth). It's not because I find you scummy, I just want some info since I'm lacking so much at the moment. I fully intend to change it to someone else.

Addendum: That's fine, I can focus on someone else for the moment if you won't be able to give anything. I don't want barebones, I want in-depth so that I can get a firsthand sense of your thinking and reasoning. So now I need to figure out who's actually here right now haha.

Yeah, I realized that after I posted.

@golden, weren't you leaning scum on MM today? When did it change to leaning town?

@sig, not sure how you can say MM is inactive.

[sig]

The second portion was answering Matt's question about Wilgy. Sorry for not making it clear.

[Dyslexicon]

Golden, Can you talk a bit about your reads on Ika dn Zexy, please?

[ika]

Caught up. Sorting my thoughts:

Ika: Your point about MP and Sig having TMI is really bad imo. Neither strikes me as players that would make that kind of mistake, why are you not taking this into account? In what world does it make sense for you for scum!MP who is on a team with a mafia vig to come out and start the day with "oh, must be mafia vig then"? If that was me I would sure as hell avoid doing exactly that and be super aware that I shouldn't be supposed to know what the extra kill meant, and I'm pretty sure this applies to MP too.

Furthermare both MP and Sig have accounted for what made them think as they did. Your attempt to play this off as TMI looks like an excuse to scumread someone and have something to argue, and I think you're smarter than that.

Question: Why did you say people had said this play by IAWY was his scum meta? Noone said that iirc.
frog iirc
What is your read on IAWY now?
would still lynch
What if there actually is a town vig in the setup?
then egg on me, doesnt change the cnetral point, i know some of the setup haev overlaps of town and scum vig

as for the rest, you really dont know me i make shit cases all the time, ts entirely why dotn to begin with

[Marco]

@golden, there is a misunderstanding there. I never meant that one style is preferable to another. Your style works and I have nothing against it. What I meant by the "mistake" comment had nothing to do with play style. You gained insight and that's that. What I just meant was you were wrong about silver's post and that suspicion could've been easily avoided. Now the fact that it led you to engage her and develop a strong read is good but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that your initial suspicion about her vote was an error.

[Dyslexicon]

Haha so here's an example of someone with the standard IAWY thoughts.

I'm guessing you didn't catch up as thoroughly as you thought, because I explained why I was voting for Golden and why I disappeared (I went to sleep, kept the vote overnight since Golden didn't say anything about it before I left. I don't like the insinuation that I'm not doing anything or that I'm just out of touch with the game (I am, and I am not respectively), because that makes it easy to justify a lynch, especially if that's the main basis of your argument, which as written here is not that substantive.

Have you read the whole game thread?

[Dyslexicon]

as for the rest, you really dont know me i make shit cases all the time, ts entirely why dotn to begin with

That does not excuse your from me suspecting you.

Where did Frog say this was IAWY's scum meta? Do you have quotes? I recall him saying his town meta was being a leader, and then IAWY objected this.

[ika]

as for the rest, you really dont know me i make shit cases all the time, ts entirely why dotn to begin with

That does not excuse your from me suspecting you.

Where did Frog say this was IAWY's scum meta? Do you have quotes? I recall him saying his town meta was being a leader, and then IAWY objected this.

i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

[Marmot]

Matt, what do you think of DrWilgy?

[Dyslexicon]

i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

[Dyslexicon]

I wish Zexy would show up. He's skating by so hard and I have questions for him.

PSI makes me cry.

[ika]

i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

no i disagree entirely. i can see any scum player doing such thing.

in turf i let out intentional knowlgage that sloonie was a don based on the failed arrest trying to get him killed, people then went on to suspect me for it. i have seen scums slip over even sillier things.

i have seen people litarly go "this is my second scum game"

so yes i think tey are scum for that slip

[Dyslexicon]

i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

no i disagree entirely. i can see any scum player doing such thing.

in turf i let out intentional knowlgage that sloonie was a don based on the failed arrest trying to get him killed, people then went on to suspect me for it. i have seen scums slip over even sillier things.

i have seen people litarly go "this is my second scum game"

so yes i think tey are scum for that slip

A slip is one thing. Willfully saying you are presuming something is another one entirely. But ok.

[DrWilgy]

Where is Psi? I don't remember him posting at all today, if he has his posts have just been super unmemorable. That doesn't make for a good vote though, so let's go with the one who seems like a Beetlejuicing active lurker.

VOTE DRWILGY

You seem to show up when someone mentions your name but disappear otherwise. Can you give me any reason to think you're town for this kind of behavior? Can you give me a hottake on your reads at the moment?

Yeah ctrl F is a great tool. Idk, it's not alignment indicative as far as I'm concerned.

Golden is bad. Sloonei, MM, MP might be team?

[sig]

i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

no i disagree entirely. i can see any scum player doing such thing.

in turf i let out intentional knowlgage that sloonie was a don based on the failed arrest trying to get him killed, people then went on to suspect me for it. i have seen scums slip over even sillier things.

i have seen people litarly go "this is my second scum game"

so yes i think tey are scum for that slip

FYI I've played more then just two scum games. It wasn't a slip for a few reasons. One I'm not mafia, Two I used logic, 2/12 chances of a vig set up, that is 16.6%.
SO we are talking about less then a 20 percent chance of a vig. Compared to a mafia vig where there is a 66.6% chance that it was a mafia kill. Then we add in the possibility of the vig killing Silver/Epi not very likely compared to the mafia killing both.

[Marmot]

For those of you who like to talk about scum-slips, town-slips, and fake town-slips, let's talk about this one.

Also, I can imagine Vigilante taking out Epignosis. While the Frog voters all had their own reasons, it definitely felt like Epignosis' vote was what resulted in the CFD. That along with Long Con's activity, I can imagine Vigilante killing Epi. Though it would have to be someone who's not used to being Vig. I think most people believe it's better to save their Vig kills for more conclusive targets. Epi had admittedly not caught up and I doubt a Vigilante would go after him last night even if they suspected him.

Marco came into Day 2 thinking that a town vig made the extra kill, and not acknowledging the possibility of a mafia vig kill.

Legit town-slip, or fake town-slip

[Marmot]

EBWOP: insert question mark at the end of that last line. <?>

[sig]

Looking everything over, on the top people, going over cases ect. I'll have to go soon, but will be back around 9 PM Est

[Marco]

For those of you who like to talk about scum-slips, town-slips, and fake town-slips, let's talk about this one.

Also, I can imagine Vigilante taking out Epignosis. While the Frog voters all had their own reasons, it definitely felt like Epignosis' vote was what resulted in the CFD. That along with Long Con's activity, I can imagine Vigilante killing Epi. Though it would have to be someone who's not used to being Vig. I think most people believe it's better to save their Vig kills for more conclusive targets. Epi had admittedly not caught up and I doubt a Vigilante would go after him last night even if they suspected him.

Marco came into Day 2 thinking that a town vig made the extra kill, and not acknowledging the possibility of a mafia vig kill.

Legit town-slip, or fake town-slip

Just to be clear, I didn't "not acknowledge" the possibility of mafia vig kill. This post was just to point out that Vigilante killing Epi wasn't out of the question. I did believe this was a mafia kill, but yeah, my immediate reaction when I saw the night write-up was that it was a Town Vigilante.

If you look for my posts around that same time, I described my whole thought process when I was questioning MP in the context of why he immediately presumed it was a mafia kill.

[Dyslexicon]

MM, that wouldn't be considered a slip. Neither would MP's presumptions. They are assumptions, not slips. By your logic my "I make no assumptions" is a slip too, and everyone else who is not openly claiming they know exactly what has happened.

What I pointed out about you end of D1 where you assumed at least two town had to be on Frog's wagon when he had 5 votes was a slip, fake or real. You never did comment a lot on that btw.

[Golden]

@golden, weren't you leaning scum on MM today? When did it change to leaning town?

Umm... back some time yesterday where I was saying if I was wrong about one out of sloonei and marmot I'd lean sloonei, and then I was saying he tone reads good and it's probably more superficial stuff (like sloonei jumping to IAWY instead of Marmot) that has me tinfoiling them as a team.

But, the line is very blurry for me when it comes to marmot. His content makes me feel good about him, but there are still flags (like, him being the first to say something that made me go 'is he implying MP is a power role')

[Dyslexicon]

Why is all this even a thing?

[Golden]

Golden, Can you talk a bit about your reads on Ika dn Zexy, please?

I've sort of talked about Zexy. I think I feel good about him because we see things in such a similar way, perhaps. Whatever the reason, I just get really good vibes from him, and have for most of the game. All his thoughts feel like they are coming from the perspective of town, to me.

In respect of ika, he comes across as very earnest - he did in Turf Wars when bad too, but in that case he knew he would appear town if lynched. I town read him in part because of silverwolf's death, and then when he honestly stated something like 'I would kill silverwolf' his honesty in that when he had no need to point it out made me feel good about him as well. On the flip side, ika getting fixated bothers me - not because it's necessarily a scum tell, but because it minimises his interactions significantly if he is scum. Overall, though, I just 'feel good' about ika right now. Not strongly good. Just, I don't get any feelings that I need to poke there.

[Golden]

@golden, there is a misunderstanding there. I never meant that one style is preferable to another. Your style works and I have nothing against it. What I meant by the "mistake" comment had nothing to do with play style. You gained insight and that's that. What I just meant was you were wrong about silver's post and that suspicion could've been easily avoided. Now the fact that it led you to engage her and develop a strong read is good but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that your initial suspicion about her vote was an error.

Yeah, I get you now. But, I have to be honest about why, last night, I expressed I was wavering in my read.

Explaining my previous posts shouldn't be confused with still holding the same view as I did at the time.

[Golden]

i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

I don't.

[Marmot]

For those of you who like to talk about scum-slips, town-slips, and fake town-slips, let's talk about this one.

Also, I can imagine Vigilante taking out Epignosis. While the Frog voters all had their own reasons, it definitely felt like Epignosis' vote was what resulted in the CFD. That along with Long Con's activity, I can imagine Vigilante killing Epi. Though it would have to be someone who's not used to being Vig. I think most people believe it's better to save their Vig kills for more conclusive targets. Epi had admittedly not caught up and I doubt a Vigilante would go after him last night even if they suspected him.

Marco came into Day 2 thinking that a town vig made the extra kill, and not acknowledging the possibility of a mafia vig kill.

Legit town-slip, or fake town-slip

Just to be clear, I didn't "not acknowledge" the possibility of mafia vig kill. This post was just to point out that Vigilante killing Epi wasn't out of the question. I did believe this was a mafia kill, but yeah, my immediate reaction when I saw the night write-up was that it was a Town Vigilante.

If you look for my posts around that same time, I described my whole thought process when I was questioning MP in the context of why he immediately presumed it was a mafia kill.

I should clarify then. Like MP, you did not immediately recognize both possibilities, even if you did soon after. You presumed one before the other, and posted such in the thread.

MM, that wouldn't be considered a slip. Neither would MP's presumptions. They are assumptions, not slips. By your logic my "I make no assumptions" is a slip too, and everyone else who is not openly claiming they know exactly what has happened.

What I pointed out about you end of D1 where you assumed at least two town had to be on Frog's wagon when he had 5 votes was a slip, fake or real. You never did comment a lot on that btw.

I don't have anything to say about it.

[Marco]

@MM, I clearly remember thinking it was a mafia kill when I made the post you quoted. Just by reading it in isolation, you can see that I was meaning an argument why it could've been a vig kill.

Yes, I did think it was a vig kill for a second when I read the write up but I don't think I posted anything like that in the thread.

[Marco]

EBWOP: "making an argument"

[Golden]

i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

I don't.

That's a response to the last sentence lol, not the first.

I can see MP doing something like that. I wouldn't necessarily call it 'careless'. Just... MP.

[Marmot]

@MM, I clearly remember thinking it was a mafia kill when I made the post you quoted. Just by reading it in isolation, you can see that I was meaning an argument why it could've been a vig kill.

Yes, I did think it was a vig kill for a second when I read the write up but I don't think I posted anything like that in the thread.

I overlooked the post before it. My mistake.

[a2thezebra]

Where's Zebra, I wanna talk to Zeebs.

Zeebs Zeebs Zeebs

What do you think of the good doctor?

I think he's a good doctor.

[Golden]

VOTE DRWILGY

There comes a point at which floating by and being non-contributory just doesn't work well for me. No matter what your phone issues are, you can make a coherent post explaining your perspective instead of just stating it.

[Golden]

Where's Zebra, I wanna talk to Zeebs.

Zeebs Zeebs Zeebs

What do you think of the good doctor?

I think he's a good doctor.

Do you think he is a town doctor?

[a2thezebra]

Currently we have a four-way tie, how much time is left?

[a2thezebra]

Where's Zebra, I wanna talk to Zeebs.

Zeebs Zeebs Zeebs

What do you think of the good doctor?

I think he's a good doctor.

Do you think he is a town doctor?

What else did you think my response implied?

[Dyslexicon]

Currently we have a four-way tie, how much time is left?

I think about 4 hours and 13 minutes.

[Golden]

Currently we have a four-way tie, how much time is left?

Several hours.

@zebra - I was trying to make your intention clear beyond mere implication. I assumed that's what it implied but I wanted to check.

Why do you think Wilgy is town?

[a2thezebra]

Currently we have a four-way tie, how much time is left?

I think about 4 hours and 13 minutes.

Thank you.

[Dyslexicon]

i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

I don't.

That's a response to the last sentence lol, not the first.

I can see MP doing something like that. I wouldn't necessarily call it 'careless'. Just... MP.

Eh, I'm not sure of what the moral of the story is here for you. My point was that I find it hard to believe that MP assuming it was a mafia vig is a "slip". He just assumed that. If he was mafia surely he would be more careful in talking about it. Is that what you're agreeing with?

[a2thezebra]

Why do you think Wilgy is town?

Because he's floating by and being non-contributory. I think he's similar to me in that he noticeably gives more of a damn how people read him when he's bad, and less of a damn when he's good. I think if he were bad he would be trying to fluff things up more, or provide more reads.

[Golden]

i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

I don't.

That's a response to the last sentence lol, not the first.

I can see MP doing something like that. I wouldn't necessarily call it 'careless'. Just... MP.

Eh, I'm not sure of what the moral of the story is here for you. My point was that I find it hard to believe that MP assuming it was a mafia vig is a "slip". He just assumed that. If he was mafia surely he would be more careful in talking about it. Is that what you're agreeing with?

Yes. I don't think mafia MP would have betrayed set up options as scum. In any event, I think you are right that too much talk about this is probably not a good idea.

[a2thezebra]

Golden, what is your current read of MM?

[Dyslexicon]

Conspiracy theory over analyzing activated:

Ignore the parts about Silverwolf and Long Con/Epignosis, I guess.

More later...

So Zexy says this after his catch up, implying that he wasn't aware of who had died yet. This would implicate that he is town.

However in the catch up I find examples that he uses present tense when he's talking about people alive - here's some examples:

Dizzy trying to push the zebra wagon after it deflated is weird. Unless he is scum with the top wagon of the time (MM) I don’t understand why scum would do that…

Actually, I said that I’ll ISO Wilgy but MP already did it for me. I agree that there is something scummish about him, also I don’t know Wilgy meta as much as MP does so I’ll trust him. Actually, were it not for Wilgy quirky meta, I would get a bigger scumread than what I currently have.

But past tense when he is talking about Epig:

Epignosis’ reason for voting Frog was bad. It was a very “easy” vote, they didn’t really analyze anything to get to that, just “I saw that single thing from a player with ~100 posts and it is scummy so here’s my vote”. I’ll excuse it since they only subbed in late in the phase, but it is not the kind of thought process I’d like to see anymore…
At 37 as of now.

He isn't talking about Silver by herself it seems.


What do you all think about this? Too detailed and paranoid? Or legit suspicion?
Had to point it out cause it's bugging my brain.

[Dyslexicon]

Currently we have a four-way tie, how much time is left?

I think about 4 hours and 13 minutes.

Thank you.

Do you have the time to catch up before day end?

[a2thezebra]

I'm not sure. Sometimes when I'm catching up after a lynch or night-kill I get impatient and skip to find out who died before going back to respond or comment on various things. It could be that mid-way through Zexy's catch-up they had to see the result.

[a2thezebra]

Currently we have a four-way tie, how much time is left?

I think about 4 hours and 13 minutes.

Thank you.

Do you have the time to catch up before day end?

I'm already caught up.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm not sure. Sometimes when I'm catching up after a lynch or night-kill I get impatient and skip to find out who died before going back to respond or comment on various things. It could be that mid-way through Zexy's catch-up they had to see the result.

Then why say "Ignore the parts about Silverwolf and Long Con/Epignosis, I guess." afterwards? Why not just take it out or do a disclaimer in the same post if he already knew who died?

The catch up post came first. Then the disclaimer. It read very much like coming off as him not knowing who had died.

Furthermore. He has written this catchup in the nighttime (pretty sure he said this, because he mentioned that you can't quote when it is night) - so for him to have seen the flips then he would've need to go back to the post and corrected the parts about Epig to "was" instead of "is".

[Dyslexicon]

I'm already caught up.

Oh ok. I sort of expected a bit more commentary, but I think MP has spoiled me. But that is good to know at least.

[a2thezebra]

I'm not sure. Sometimes when I'm catching up after a lynch or night-kill I get impatient and skip to find out who died before going back to respond or comment on various things. It could be that mid-way through Zexy's catch-up they had to see the result.

Then why say "Ignore the parts about Silverwolf and Long Con/Epignosis, I guess." afterwards? Why not just take it out or do a disclaimer in the same post if he already knew who died?

The catch up post came first. Then the disclaimer. It read very much like coming off as him not knowing who had died.

Furthermore. He has written this catchup in the nighttime (pretty sure he said this, because he mentioned that you can't quote when it is night) - so for him to have seen the flips then he would've need to go back to the post and corrected the parts about Epig to "was" instead of "is".

Stop it, you're hurting my town read of Zexy.