The Search for Quin [END]

[Sloonei]

I just looked back and I think I don't understand what he was saying.

It is unclear how speedchuck is changing his reads. He says he has no town reads, but earlier in the game he had clearly stated town reads in Epi, Sloonei, and (perhaps) sanmateo. What alarms me further is that speedchuck is saying he doesn't like how all over the place the thread is (but he's worse than almost anyone else in that regard, at least from what I saw) AND he says he wants to vote for either LC or Epi "for information" when he clearly was defending Epi as a town read earlier. I found no substantiated reason for his change of mind.

I therefore believe that he is likely fabricating his reads.

My problem with this is that speedchuck is quite careful and a devious kind.

Do you think he'd forget he said I was good and then call me bad later?

I don't.

That's a fair point. I'm not sure he'd "forget", but his opinions just seemed all over the place to me. I guess it's potentially genuine inconsistency as opposed to opportunistic fabrication.

I'm not even sure I've personally seen a mafia-aligned speedchuck.

what would an "opportunistic fabrication" have been in this situation?

[Epignosis]

I think what is throwing me off is Wilgy swtiching the lynch at the last second to LC, and then both LC and Wilgy being revealed to be civ. As well as confirming how many times I associate Wilgy as a mafia player who plays fast and loose. So I'm hoping I can get my grounding here again soon.

What are your initial ungrounded thoughts on this?

Well we know now that they're both civs, so I'm not sure if it really tells us anything else that is useful. Do you have any thoughts on it?

As is always the case when a civilian gets lynched, I think it's reasonable to speculate that at least one baddie was on board with their lynch, so it might be wise to take a look at the LC bandwagon and votes again.

This does not strike me as genuine.

LC bandwagon?

My Lord, there were three votes on LC, and the one that came in at the last minute to seal the deal was from DrWilgy (a civilian).

So your "bandwagon" consists of MP and me. That's two voters.

Why is it reasonable to speculate that "at least one baddie" is on board when a civilian gets lynched "as is always the case?" When a mafia member gets lynched, isn't it equally reasonable to speculate that at least one teammate was on board?

[Sloonei]

I think what is throwing me off is Wilgy swtiching the lynch at the last second to LC, and then both LC and Wilgy being revealed to be civ. As well as confirming how many times I associate Wilgy as a mafia player who plays fast and loose. So I'm hoping I can get my grounding here again soon.

What are your initial ungrounded thoughts on this?

Well we know now that they're both civs, so I'm not sure if it really tells us anything else that is useful. Do you have any thoughts on it?

As is always the case when a civilian gets lynched, I think it's reasonable to speculate that at least one baddie was on board with their lynch, so it might be wise to take a look at the LC bandwagon and votes again.

This does not strike me as genuine.

LC bandwagon?

My Lord, there were three votes on LC, and the one that came in at the last minute to seal the deal was from DrWilgy (a civilian).

So your "bandwagon" consists of MP and me. That's two voters.

Why is it reasonable to speculate that "at least one baddie" is on board when a civilian gets lynched "as is always the case?" When a mafia member gets lynched, isn't it equally reasonable to speculate that at least one teammate was on board?

See my next post. I thought there were more votes. I was not here for the deadline. And it's still a bandwagon in the sense that it's the chain of votes which resulted in a lynch. Do you disagree that mafia members want to lynch civilians?

[Sloonei]

I should add that part of the reason I've been so skeptical of Epi all game long is that he just hosted me as a baddie in Street Fighter. He had a front row seat to everything scum Sloonei does and would do. I feel like he of all people should be able to spot the differences in my play here.

That said, I've taken a step back from my suspicion of him today because no one else seemed to agree with my observation that he was deliberately misconstruing information all day long. I may have been imagining it because I didn't think it was possible for me to be read as bad.

[Epignosis]

I think what is throwing me off is Wilgy swtiching the lynch at the last second to LC, and then both LC and Wilgy being revealed to be civ. As well as confirming how many times I associate Wilgy as a mafia player who plays fast and loose. So I'm hoping I can get my grounding here again soon.

What are your initial ungrounded thoughts on this?

Well we know now that they're both civs, so I'm not sure if it really tells us anything else that is useful. Do you have any thoughts on it?

As is always the case when a civilian gets lynched, I think it's reasonable to speculate that at least one baddie was on board with their lynch, so it might be wise to take a look at the LC bandwagon and votes again.

This does not strike me as genuine.

LC bandwagon?

My Lord, there were three votes on LC, and the one that came in at the last minute to seal the deal was from DrWilgy (a civilian).

So your "bandwagon" consists of MP and me. That's two voters.

Why is it reasonable to speculate that "at least one baddie" is on board when a civilian gets lynched "as is always the case?" When a mafia member gets lynched, isn't it equally reasonable to speculate that at least one teammate was on board?

See my next post. I thought there were more votes. I was not here for the deadline. And it's still a bandwagon in the sense that it's the chain of votes which resulted in a lynch. Do you disagree that mafia members want to lynch civilians?

I did just see your quoting of the poll. That's fine if you didn't remember the number of voters.

However, that doesn't address why it's "reasonable to speculate..."

Of course it's reasonable to speculate that a mafia member voted for a civilian. It's more reasonable (given that there are more civilians that mafia) to speculate that no mafia voted for the lynched civilian.

Do you disagree that mafia members want to lynch civilians?

I do. Mafia want civilians to lynch civilians.

And in context, that's a misleading question: LC wasn't the only civilian. Wouldn't it be better to vote for a civilian who isn't getting lynched so that you have somewhere consistent to vote the next Day?

[speedchuck]

The game theory cometh

[Sloonei]

I am not saying that you or MP are definitely scum (though I've suspected you both independently prior to any of this). But bwt confessed to feeling confused about how to respond to a certain situation. I was providing my initial thoughts on how I would respond to his situation because he directly asked me. It's reasonable to speculate that mafia voted for a civilian. It's reasonable to speculate that civilians voted for a civilian. It's reasonable to speculate.

[Epignosis]

Of all the people supposedly suspicious of DDL, DDL only took one vote.

[Sloonei]

Of all the people supposedly suspicious of DDL, DDL only took one vote.

I remember nutella suspecting him because i've just been talking about that, and she tried to cast a vote for speedchuck instead. Good catch. who else suspects him?

[Epignosis]

Of all the people supposedly suspicious of DDL, DDL only took one vote.

I remember nutella suspecting him because i've just been talking about that, and she tried to cast a vote for speedchuck instead. Good catch. who else suspects him?

sanmateo, obviously.

I thought you were another, but I see you only voted him temporarily and that your position wasn't a strong one.

speedchuck ("I could see DDL as scum regardless of LC's alignment, I think.")

nutella, as I said. She said, "Speedchuck was a way better candidate but yall blew it" but I don't recall her addressing the points I raised in favor of speedchuck. She said that even though DDL was still a viable lynch.

I thought there was one more. MP perhaps? I see he called DDL "uncharacteristically tame." Yes, DDL was in MP's "would potentially vote" category.

[Sloonei]

I am working every single night this week because my job sucks and likes to do things like schedule me in 6 nights straight without any forewarning, so I'll continue to miss every deadline and hope that my interview for a much much better job on wednesday goes well.
I'm leaving now and keeping my vote on nutella. This most recent bit of digging from Epi has produced another mark against her for me, and I just do not feel like I am seeing the same townie nutella that I'm used to seeing. Lynch good, fellow townies.

[speedchuck]

I'm leaving now and keeping my vote on nutella. This most recent bit of digging from Epi has produced another mark against her for me, and I just do not feel like I am seeing the same townie nutella that I'm used to seeing. Lynch good, fellow townies.

That point against Nutella is bad only if DDL is bad, right? Or is it something different?

I'd obviously rather lynch DDL than nutella if it's all the same to everyone else.

[Epignosis]

Of all the people supposedly suspicious of DDL, DDL only took one vote.

I remember nutella suspecting him because i've just been talking about that, and she tried to cast a vote for speedchuck instead. Good catch. who else suspects him?

I'm leaving now and keeping my vote on nutella. This most recent bit of digging from Epi has produced another mark against her for me, and I just do not feel like I am seeing the same townie nutella that I'm used to seeing. Lynch good, fellow townies.

What was my "good catch?"

[Sloonei]

I'm leaving now and keeping my vote on nutella. This most recent bit of digging from Epi has produced another mark against her for me, and I just do not feel like I am seeing the same townie nutella that I'm used to seeing. Lynch good, fellow townies.

That point against Nutella is bad only if DDL is bad, right? Or is it something different?

I'd obviously rather lynch DDL than nutella if it's all the same to everyone else.

Nutella proclaims DDL as her top suspect but then drops a vote on you when both are viable candidates. If she is bad, DDL also looks bad in this, but it is not necessary for both to be bad.

[Sloonei]

Of all the people supposedly suspicious of DDL, DDL only took one vote.

I remember nutella suspecting him because i've just been talking about that, and she tried to cast a vote for speedchuck instead. Good catch. who else suspects him?

I'm leaving now and keeping my vote on nutella. This most recent bit of digging from Epi has produced another mark against her for me, and I just do not feel like I am seeing the same townie nutella that I'm used to seeing. Lynch good, fellow townies.

What was my "good catch?"

People were suspicious of DDL but didn't vote for him. It's somethig worth digging into. I don't have time to dig into it right now.

[nutella]

I voted for speedchuck when I thought it was EOD but I had actually missed it, and at the time that would have tied him with LC while this was not the case for DDL. My reasoning should be obvious.

[birdwithteeth11]

I have to leave for work. I will try to be back to make a quick post and vote before EoD but no guarantees I will be able to. I apologize in advance if this happens.

[Epignosis]

Of all the people supposedly suspicious of DDL, DDL only took one vote.

I remember nutella suspecting him because i've just been talking about that, and she tried to cast a vote for speedchuck instead. Good catch. who else suspects him?

I'm leaving now and keeping my vote on nutella. This most recent bit of digging from Epi has produced another mark against her for me, and I just do not feel like I am seeing the same townie nutella that I'm used to seeing. Lynch good, fellow townies.

What was my "good catch?"

People were suspicious of DDL but didn't vote for him. It's somethig worth digging into. I don't have time to dig into it right now.

Okay, but the central factor in this is DDL (if you're going down this road).

For my own part, what keeps my suspicion of nutella in check is her meltdown at the end of Day 1 followed by that caustic "I-told-you-so" rhetoric directly after the lynch, and then what she posts after that.

While I do not doubt nutella could fake an outburst like this, the eruption was almost certainly genuine, given her recent frustration elsewhere. While I acknowledge that the outrage at missing the vote would likely be genuine even if nutella is bad, the sourness bled over into the lynch reveal itself.

That too, could be faked, but was it?

If it was, it would have to mean that:

1) nutella was genuinely angry about the poll time change (as I believe she would be regardless of alignment), but then
2) after seeing the dead power role and, while being secretly overjoyed,
3) launch a little tirade at the blockheads who lynched LC, and THEN
4) go back to her original complaint about the time change.

For nutella to be bad, all four of these things have to be true.

#4 would indicate to me that nutella believed she had a real opportunity to change the lynch, and that she was robbed of that opportunity. If she were bad, she would have been delighted at the outcome and her complaint at this stage would have been unnecessary and her dissatisfaction feigned.

On top of it all, nutella is a grammar girl. Read those posts. Home girl was genuinely pissed all the way through.

I think I just talked myself into calling nutella a civilian.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ok so I still want to lynch one of Nutella or MP now that LC is dead.

I also like the idea of lynchig Serge though I personally am not fond of lynching inactives too early so I think Ill back down for now.

Others are either neutral or slight civ reads. Strongest civ read right now is probably Epi, Im liking his logical prpcesses. But I also put Epi on my "never 100% read as civ" list a long time ago and I dont intend to remove him now.

[speedchuck]

Nutella's still in my top 3 townreads. I refuse to vote there.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I cant explain other people's reasons for treating me the way they do except point out it could be a combination of coincidence and baddies testing the wagon and then changing their mind.

I believe I am both very easy to start wagons on and good at defending myself, so this tends to happen.

I do agree Nutella's tiptoeing around me looks forced as hell though so Im gonna bet she is an example of such and vote for her.

[Epignosis]

Strongest civ read right now is probably Epi, Im liking his logical prpcesses.

Spoiler: show

Of all the people supposedly suspicious of DDL, DDL only took one vote.

I remember nutella suspecting him because i've just been talking about that, and she tried to cast a vote for speedchuck instead. Good catch. who else suspects him?

I'm leaving now and keeping my vote on nutella. This most recent bit of digging from Epi has produced another mark against her for me, and I just do not feel like I am seeing the same townie nutella that I'm used to seeing. Lynch good, fellow townies.

What was my "good catch?"

People were suspicious of DDL but didn't vote for him. It's somethig worth digging into. I don't have time to dig into it right now.

Okay, but the central factor in this is DDL (if you're going down this road).

For my own part, what keeps my suspicion of nutella in check is her meltdown at the end of Day 1 followed by that caustic "I-told-you-so" rhetoric directly after the lynch, and then what she posts after that.

While I do not doubt nutella could fake an outburst like this, the eruption was almost certainly genuine, given her recent frustration elsewhere. While I acknowledge that the outrage at missing the vote would likely be genuine even if nutella is bad, the sourness bled over into the lynch reveal itself.

That too, could be faked, but was it?

If it was, it would have to mean that:

1) nutella was genuinely angry about the poll time change (as I believe she would be regardless of alignment), but then
2) after seeing the dead power role and, while being secretly overjoyed,
3) launch a little tirade at the blockheads who lynched LC, and THEN
4) go back to her original complaint about the time change.

For nutella to be bad, all four of these things have to be true.

#4 would indicate to me that nutella believed she had a real opportunity to change the lynch, and that she was robbed of that opportunity. If she were bad, she would have been delighted at the outcome and her complaint at this stage would have been unnecessary and her dissatisfaction feigned.

On top of it all, nutella is a grammar girl. Read those posts. Home girl was genuinely pissed all the way through.

I think I just talked myself into calling nutella a civilian.

I do agree Nutella's tiptoeing around me looks forced as hell though so Im gonna bet she is an example of such and vote for her.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Judge the process, not the result.

[speedchuck]

Judge the process, not the result.

That's not how this works. If you like Epi's process, perhaps you have something to say about what he logically concluded?

The result, if valid, will occur with the lynch. Epi's process hasn't resulted yet, and won't result in anything if everybody (like you) ignore it.

[speedchuck]

Aint got no respect for nobody.

Spacedaisy
Serge
Dragon D. Luffy
Dom
MovingPictures07
birdwithteeth11

These are the people I would lynch today, listed in order of favorability. . . ish. If there are 4 or so non-town, I'm willing to bet that 3 are in here.

[Epignosis]

I had a post about this earlier today, but got rid of it because I wasn't sure where I was going with it. I'm going to rewrite it now that I have thought it over.

I felt like Epignosis' reactions were way more suspicious than my reaction to them. I don't understand why you ignore my points about his reactions and just vote for me instead.

How about this for a plan then? We lynch you today for your backtracking. If you flip civ, then we lynch Epig on Day 2 since he was clearly egging you on and trying to start something!

yeah that seems like a terrible plan. none of what i've seen from the epi/LC thing moves me particularly. it's a bunch of tepid day 1 stuff. but more importantly, if getting into weird arguments in-game is really a recurring thing between them, then obviously we need to look elsewhere because anything coming from either of the two about the other one holds less weight.

where else shall we look?

well there's already a bandwagon forming against long con so that seems like a great starting point

I don't know how sanmateo (or anyone) could call the interactions between LC and me "a bunch of tepid day 1 stuff." Perhaps he was misusing the word "tepid." I don't know.

What I do know is that sanmateo wanted to start investigating people who even expressed an anti-LC opinion: Despite sanmateo's use of the word "bandwagon," I don't recall LC ever having more than two votes until DrWilgy swung the hammer.

This, then, presupposes that, for whatever reason, sanmateo believes that Long Con is good.

How did he come to think that if he dismissed the interactions between LC and me as "a bunch of tepid day 1 stuff?"

Why begin trying to suspect people who are expressing an anti-LC opinion on Day 1 before there was a lynch?

It only makes sense to me if he already knows Long Con is not bad.

[Spacedaisy]

Aint got no respect for nobody.

Spacedaisy
Serge
Dragon D. Luffy
Dom
MovingPictures07
birdwithteeth11

These are the people I would lynch today, listed in order of favorability. . . ish. If there are 4 or so non-town, I'm willing to bet that 3 are in here.

I would rather not be lynched, but if you must feel free. It will be a colossal waste of time. I don't believe bwt is bad. I go back and forth on MP. I wish I felt more confident one way or the other, it's uncommon for me when reading MP. I have no opinion of Serge, DDL or Dom.

[Epignosis]

On another plane of thought:

DrWilgy effectively "saved" speedchuck from being lynched.

For a moment, suppose someone else had been killed instead and not DrWilgy.

If speedchuck is bad and got lynched today, that sets up the narrative that Wilgy was a teammate brazenly saving speedchuck.

If speedchuck is good and got lynched today, then no such narrative can exist.

DrWilgy being killed therefore leads me to infer the underlined scenario is probably true.

[speedchuck]

Eh, I dunno. You could be right.

But on the other hand, if Sanmateo thinks that LC is town or even likely town, then he would suspect the bandwagon forming as opportunistic.

On the other other hand, how familiar is Sanmateo with LC, and LC's propensity to be at the center of this kind of thing?

On the other other other hand, even if he just 'had a bad feeling' it does feel like he's going to the opposite extreme there, and actively suspecting those people.

On the other other other other hand, would he do this as scum rather than just shoving off (like I and sloon admittedly did) and letting the lynch go through?


linki: Post didn't sway me. Now I'm just going to feel bad if I lynch you and you are town. But I've made my argument, and if more people don't follow up and agree with it, you'll be fine.
Pls, @everyone, what do you think of my case on spacedaisy?

My case from earlier:
Rereading spacedaisy though has her pretty solidly last, much as I hate to say it. Tone, presence, passive-aggressive way of defending herself, the way she slowly switches from defense to helping push the man lynch trains without calling attention to herself, etc.

[speedchuck]

Edit: My previous post was about sanmateo

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Judge the process, not the result.

That's not how this works. If you like Epi's process, perhaps you have something to say about what he logically concluded?

The result, if valid, will occur with the lynch. Epi's process hasn't resulted yet, and won't result in anything if everybody (like you) ignore it.

Eh I just wanted to use Epi's phrase against him.

Point is, the way he is thinking looks legit to me.

That doesn't mean I agree with it tho.

[speedchuck]

Judge the process, not the result.

That's not how this works. If you like Epi's process, perhaps you have something to say about what he logically concluded?

The result, if valid, will occur with the lynch. Epi's process hasn't resulted yet, and won't result in anything if everybody (like you) ignore it.

Eh I just wanted to use Epi's phrase against him.

Point is, the way he is thinking looks legit to me.

That doesn't mean I agree with it tho.

That's fine. Where do you disagree with his Nutella argument? He laid it out pointwise. Do you disagree with a, b, c, or d coming from a town perspective? Quote it, tell me, convince me. Pls.

[Sloonei]

The reason I'm not immediately on board with the idea of lynching DDL in the new light of Epi's theory is that i haven't found him to be particularly suspicious on his own. I could easilt be wrong about him, and the lack of lynch pressure yesterday is definitely something worth looking into at the very least, but I would require a substantive case on DDL himself to sway me. Not that I expect to have time to be swayed by a substantive case tonight, just thought I'd weigh in. He's someone I want talked about more in my absence.

[Epignosis]

I should add that part of the reason I've been so skeptical of Epi all game long is that he just hosted me as a baddie in Street Fighter. He had a front row seat to everything scum Sloonei does and would do. I feel like he of all people should be able to spot the differences in my play here.

That said, I've taken a step back from my suspicion of him today because no one else seemed to agree with my observation that he was deliberately misconstruing information all day long. I may have been imagining it because I didn't think it was possible for me to be read as bad.

I forgot to say that none of that means anything to me.

Are you seriously suggesting that I should clear you right now because I should be able to see how (apparently?) different you are when bad or good?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Epi looks at a piece of evidence and draws a different conclusion from the one I do.

I not only think it's not hard for scum to fake an outburst of frustration, but I also believe from experience that scum has a tendency to want to announce their reactions to major events in the game. As in "good job town", or "good job, vig", but also "this lynch was so stupid". This isn't really based on logic but I feel it's human nature, they want to show they care but don't want to actually help, so they make those cheerleader posts. I've had to hold that urge myself many times as bad.

And the timing... eh, jury is out on whether Nutella was mad for that or not. Baddies love an excuse not to vote for people, so they don't get involved in possible civ mislynches or unnecessary busses. And again, she could actually be mad and fake the whole thing. I don't want to start underestimating her.

[speedchuck]

I'll admit, I've seen people do that. I guess, FMPOV, nutella's reactions seemed very genuine. The way she went about it, the out-of-game circumstances, the frustration about the vote, etc. I can't read it as scum.
Go read her posts and assume I'm town. Does it really seem like a scum reaction?

I actually feel like this game is going well but that nobody is voting in good places. It's freaking weird.

[Epignosis]

Epi looks at a piece of evidence and draws a different conclusion from the one I do.

I not only think it's not hard for scum to fake an outburst of frustration, but I also believe from experience that scum has a tendency to want to announce their reactions to major events in the game. As in "good job town", or "good job, vig", but also "this lynch was so stupid". This isn't really based on logic but I feel it's human nature, they want to show they care but don't want to actually help, so they make those cheerleader posts. I've had to hold that urge myself many times as bad.

And the timing... eh, jury is out on whether Nutella was mad for that or not. Baddies love an excuse not to vote for people, so they don't get involved in possible civ mislynches or unnecessary busses. And again, she could actually be mad and fake the whole thing. I don't want to start underestimating her.

why do hosts keep screwing me over? first G-Man kills me for no reason and now suddenly my tie-causing vote doesn't count even though the poll deadline hadn't passed? this sucks you guys why can't I just play mafia without things going wrong beyond my control

This isn't a "cheerleader post."

It's kind of a dirty post if nutella indeed missed the vote on purpose, as I think you are suggesting.

But I don't think nutella is afraid to cast a vote when she is bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention]

This post.

also holy shit the worst role to lose wow great job everybody

I thought you were talking about it?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'll admit, I've seen people do that. I guess, FMPOV, nutella's reactions seemed very genuine. The way she went about it, the out-of-game circumstances, the frustration about the vote, etc. I can't read it as scum.
Go read her posts and assume I'm town. Does it really seem like a scum reaction?

I actually feel like this game is going well but that nobody is voting in good places. It's freaking weird.

It could be a half legit half faked thing. As in, she is actually mad at the poll time, but she used that feeling to produce a post that made her look more civ.

I've done that myself. There was a game where I was bad and I was feeling guilty about the way I had treated another player in a previous game. So I wrote a heartfelt apology to him while making sure to use that as a spring to make people like me.

The best lies are half truths.

[Epignosis]

@Epignosis

This post.

also holy shit the worst role to lose wow great job everybody

I thought you were talking about it?

I was referring to the three posts she made where the one you quoted was second.

That post might qualify as a "cheerleader post" for you (and if so, I don't want to meet any Brazilian cheerleaders ), but the one that comes right after it is the one I believe to be crucial in determining nutella's intentions and therefore alignment.

[NewTraditionalist]

I'm curious: Where do you come from, @NewTraditionalist ?

Epi, do you still suspect me? Ever gonna follow through and elaborate why?

I feel like the day is going in circles, and I don't like that. Votes are spread, and I don't like that. I don't have anything with me to eat, and I don't like that.

Worst of all, though, I don't really have any town reads. This never happens. I usually just bandwagon on with a townie for the wins. Uhhhh.... Leaning toward voting Epi or LC, for info and thread-clearing clarify and decent odds that one of them are scum.

Lived all over growing up. Austin for years and now San Antonio since last summer.

[Epignosis]

I'll admit, I've seen people do that. I guess, FMPOV, nutella's reactions seemed very genuine. The way she went about it, the out-of-game circumstances, the frustration about the vote, etc. I can't read it as scum.
Go read her posts and assume I'm town. Does it really seem like a scum reaction?

I actually feel like this game is going well but that nobody is voting in good places. It's freaking weird.

It could be a half legit half faked thing. As in, she is actually mad at the poll time, but she used that feeling to produce a post that made her look more civ.

I've done that myself. There was a game where I was bad and I was feeling guilty about the way I had treated another player in a previous game. So I wrote a heartfelt apology to him while making sure to use that as a spring to make people like me.

The best lies are half truths.

Not the same thing.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It's more like a "reverse cheeleader', if that is a thing.

Or a commentator.

Whatever. Let me have my fun with metaphors.

[Tangrowth]

Going to steadily work on catching up now, bear with me here.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I admit it's possible my mind is being clouded by OMGUS. But I want to trust my gut.

[Tangrowth]

Firstly, I call BS at MP saying he doesn't know scum-chuck. He was the only thing that stood between me and a LMS win in Phenon Mafia. I made the most ridiculous claim known to man, and yet was still good enough at forming cases and playing the innocent that MP practically flipped a coin for the lynch. Granted, that was the only game, and he subbed in . . . Okay, maybe I could buy it. I think about it.

Oh yeah, that's right.

I would say you were technically 3rd party anti-town, but yeah. I did sub into that game so my meta evaluation of you based on that didn't really come to mind.

[Sloonei]

I should add that part of the reason I've been so skeptical of Epi all game long is that he just hosted me as a baddie in Street Fighter. He had a front row seat to everything scum Sloonei does and would do. I feel like he of all people should be able to spot the differences in my play here.

That said, I've taken a step back from my suspicion of him today because no one else seemed to agree with my observation that he was deliberately misconstruing information all day long. I may have been imagining it because I didn't think it was possible for me to be read as bad.

I forgot to say that none of that means anything to me.

Are you seriously suggesting that I should clear you right now because I should be able to see how (apparently?) different you are when bad or good?

I'm not trying to suggest anything about how you should or shouldn't play the game, nor am I trying to be critical of you in any way. I'm just expressing that this has been a factor in how I've been reading you this game, because it is. In theory you should be in the best position to judge me against my recent scum game of anyone here, that is all. I feel like you have seen my hand.

The first question I ask myself when anyone expresses suspicion of me is whether or not I believe that person is genuinely suspicious. I've been struggling to answer that question with regards to you in this game. MP as well, but he's had far less to say.

[Tangrowth]

Something's come up, BBS.

[speedchuck]

I'm curious: Where do you come from, @NewTraditionalist ?

Epi, do you still suspect me? Ever gonna follow through and elaborate why?

I feel like the day is going in circles, and I don't like that. Votes are spread, and I don't like that. I don't have anything with me to eat, and I don't like that.

Worst of all, though, I don't really have any town reads. This never happens. I usually just bandwagon on with a townie for the wins. Uhhhh.... Leaning toward voting Epi or LC, for info and thread-clearing clarify and decent odds that one of them are scum.

Lived all over growing up. Austin for years and now San Antonio since last summer.

Cool, but not what I meant. Did you come from another forum? First mafia game? Any experience IRL?

[Spacedaisy]

linki: Post didn't sway me. Now I'm just going to feel bad if I lynch you and you are town. But I've made my argument, and if more people don't follow up and agree with it, you'll be fine.
Pls, @everyone, what do you think of my case on spacedaisy?

My case from earlier:
Rereading spacedaisy though has her pretty solidly last, much as I hate to say it. Tone, presence, passive-aggressive way of defending herself, the way she slowly switches from defense to helping push the man lynch trains without calling attention to herself, etc.

Any passive aggressive tones you are getting from me is because sometimes Epi's arrogance level gets on my last nerve. And if I can be honest, it's the reason I have pretty much withdrawn from the activity level I had previously engaged after MP's @mention of me. I don't particularly like being pissed off in a mafia game, least of all at someone I consider a friend. Good guy, but one whose mafia persona I frequently cannot handle with out feeling intense levels of irritation.

Other than that there wasn't any passive aggressiveness. Wait, what main lynch trains did I switch to help push? I didn't even vote for the person who died. I switched from MP to you (which is probably why you are so stuck on me) simply because Wilgy seemed very certain I was reading something into MP. Like he almost seemed to me to be implying he knew something. So it really made me question my read on MP at that time. I never pushed for anyone's lynch except MP's.

So speedchuck, will you be willing to answer when you are dead wrong? When my lynch flips, you ready for that vanilla civ reveal? Because that is what you will get.

let's say for moment that happens. What does that do to your suspicions? Who do you look at next?