I guess we're using "bogus" differently.
I think LC is being truthful and wrong in regards to that slip.
LC seeming to not actually believe his case is an LC tell.
Make sense?
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I guess we're using "bogus" differently.
I don't understand the "one of two scummers instead of only one" statement at all.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:48 pmIs the problem that my numbers are off due to misremembering the number of baddies in this game?colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:05 pmElaborate please?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:39 pm Additionally, Nutella being town in my book means you could be one of two scummers instead of only one (Indy aside) so you're twice as likely to be bad. That was the main reason you were probably good.
What's confusing/odd?
Ah, so it's a meta read? That's different.nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:42 pmI just figured it wasn't typical Epi behavior. Quin said the "ok I'm voting for Epi, do you guys know why" thing and I instantly understood that he was reacting to Epi naming townreads (or at least people he wouldn't vote for, whatever) since he posted it right after the post in question, and I took Quin's post to imply that he found that to be specifically unusual for Epi to do. I have nothing against naming townreads as a D1 behavior in general, but specifically Epi doing so felt out of character.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:36 pmAll Epi did was throw out a couple of names that pleased him, in one form or another, and said he wasn't going to vote them D1.nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:31 pmwhy?speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:29 pm Just a friendly reminder that the buddying case on Epi was just the worst
Burden of proof on you guys. Give me a valid reason that this is scummy behavior. It doesn't make sense as a long game. Calling what Epi did "buddying" is like calling a D1 vote "hate mongering".
It's hard to argue against something that doesn't make sense, as Epi found out, but if you can explain the case in a way that doesn't sound insane, I'll give you some nebulous speedchuck points and rescind my opinion.
What about the bits regarding bad handwaives of noncircular reasoning as circular reasoning and junk about "how does LC know those players are civs" etc?Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:23 pm I am the person Epi allegedly tried to intimidate on Day 1. He was not trying to intimidate me.
I was also the first person to bring up what has been dubbed his "buddying" of two players. I do not think this is a valid line of suspicion. It is on par with my Day 0 Daisy prod.
The case against Epignosis is a silly one.
Yeah. Cause (at a basic level) I agreed with LC that Epi was bad and thought she was handwaiving the case on Epi to cover for a teammate.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:40 pmI went back and looked at your posts. You were with LC practically the whole time. Lost some points with me there, mate. Twas a poor case.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:06 pmDidn't like the way you came in shooting at LC but then fell on Nutella.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:47 pm Go ahead and elaborate on your read of me, while you're at it, Jack.
As I recall, you ended up on Nutella too, so
I meant "bogus" both in that his statements do not make complete sense and that he may not always believe what he says. I'm unclear on where you stand on these issues, particularly as they relate to this post.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:50 pmI guess we're using "bogus" differently.
I think LC is being truthful and wrong in regards to that slip.
LC seeming to not actually believe his case is an LC tell.
Make sense?
She wasn't LC.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:57 pmYeah. Cause (at a basic level) I agreed with LC that Epi was bad and thought she was handwaiving the case on Epi to cover for a teammate.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:40 pmI went back and looked at your posts. You were with LC practically the whole time. Lost some points with me there, mate. Twas a poor case.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:06 pmDidn't like the way you came in shooting at LC but then fell on Nutella.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:47 pm Go ahead and elaborate on your read of me, while you're at it, Jack.
As I recall, you ended up on Nutella too, so
Why were you voting Nutella again?
I miscounted the baddie team of four as a baddie team of three. If Epi and Nutella are bad, you have a 1/whatever chance of being bad. If only Epi is bad, you have a 2/whatever chance.colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:51 pmI don't understand the "one of two scummers instead of only one" statement at all.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:48 pmIs the problem that my numbers are off due to misremembering the number of baddies in this game?colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:05 pmElaborate please?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:39 pm Additionally, Nutella being town in my book means you could be one of two scummers instead of only one (Indy aside) so you're twice as likely to be bad. That was the main reason you were probably good.
What's confusing/odd?
Yeah this is crap reasoning, that's not a particular reason for me to be town over anybody else.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:05 pmI miscounted the baddie team of four as a baddie team of three. If Epi and Nutella are bad, you have a 1/whatever chance of being bad. If only Epi is bad, you have a 2/whatever chance.colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:51 pmI don't understand the "one of two scummers instead of only one" statement at all.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:48 pmIs the problem that my numbers are off due to misremembering the number of baddies in this game?colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:05 pmElaborate please?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:39 pm Additionally, Nutella being town in my book means you could be one of two scummers instead of only one (Indy aside) so you're twice as likely to be bad. That was the main reason you were probably good.
What's confusing/odd?
But it's actually 2/whatever and 3/whatever.
Like I said in that very post, everyone else would be statistically likely to be good based on that POE.
I think the questions about LC "knowing" certain players were civ was Epi throwing LC's logic back in his face. LC built a case where he makes broad assumptions about Epi, so Epi returns the favor. That's just how I saw it and he can tell me I'm wrong.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:55 pmWhat about the bits regarding bad handwaives of noncircular reasoning as circular reasoning and junk about "how does LC know those players are civs" etc?Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:23 pm I am the person Epi allegedly tried to intimidate on Day 1. He was not trying to intimidate me.
I was also the first person to bring up what has been dubbed his "buddying" of two players. I do not think this is a valid line of suspicion. It is on par with my Day 0 Daisy prod.
The case against Epignosis is a silly one.
Do you think Epi was being dishonest? Do you think any of that was alignment indicative?
LC would not have, as scum, taken one of the danciest, hardest-to-lynch targets and formed a stupid argument to try and lynch him. My meta on LC says this sincere, earnest, and suicidal lynchlust comes from a town headspace.speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:53 pm (Basically I would think LC is scum but following such a stupid argument if he didn't genuinely see something in Epi is suicidal)
(And that's a town meta read on LC for me)
LC and Epi have a history of this sort of thing. It's within LC's meta to go after him like this. And LC is also one of the boldest scum players we'll see, according to legend. I get the impression that he's willing to do just abot anything.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:23 pmLC would not have, as scum, taken one of the danciest, hardest-to-lynch targets and formed a stupid argument to try and lynch him. My meta on LC says this sincere, earnest, and suicidal lynchlust comes from a town headspace.speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:53 pm (Basically I would think LC is scum but following such a stupid argument if he didn't genuinely see something in Epi is suicidal)
(And that's a town meta read on LC for me)
And seriously, who would target Epi as their easy D1 lynch?
Motive-wise, it makes zero sense for LC to be scum outside of tinfoil land.
The first would be generally bad indicative. The later would be largely bad indicative.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:04 pmI meant "bogus" both in that his statements do not make complete sense and that he may not always believe what he says. I'm unclear on where you stand on these issues, particularly as they relate to this post.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:50 pmI guess we're using "bogus" differently.
I think LC is being truthful and wrong in regards to that slip.
LC seeming to not actually believe his case is an LC tell.
Make sense?
Go read my post again. Literally said nobody should listen to my town read of you.colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:11 pmYeah this is crap reasoning, that's not a particular reason for me to be town over anybody else.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:05 pmI miscounted the baddie team of four as a baddie team of three. If Epi and Nutella are bad, you have a 1/whatever chance of being bad. If only Epi is bad, you have a 2/whatever chance.colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:51 pmI don't understand the "one of two scummers instead of only one" statement at all.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:48 pmIs the problem that my numbers are off due to misremembering the number of baddies in this game?colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:05 pmElaborate please?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:39 pm Additionally, Nutella being town in my book means you could be one of two scummers instead of only one (Indy aside) so you're twice as likely to be bad. That was the main reason you were probably good.
What's confusing/odd?
But it's actually 2/whatever and 3/whatever.
Like I said in that very post, everyone else would be statistically likely to be good based on that POE.
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:30 pm @speedchuck
Remind me why you're clearing LC. I remember you being a detractor of his case and pursuit of Epi so why do you think he's good?
Third time's the charmspeedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:23 pmLC would not have, as scum, taken one of the danciest, hardest-to-lynch targets and formed a stupid argument to try and lynch him. My meta on LC says this sincere, earnest, and suicidal lynchlust comes from a town headspace.speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:53 pm (Basically I would think LC is scum but following such a stupid argument if he didn't genuinely see something in Epi is suicidal)
(And that's a town meta read on LC for me)
And seriously, who would target Epi as their easy D1 lynch?
Motive-wise, it makes zero sense for LC to be scum outside of tinfoil land.
Nope. Just didn't get your reasoning and then thought it was bad. But the LC-related reasoning was better so really I'm kinda picking at small details here. Taking a step back, your read of me is genuine enough I think.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:32 pmGo read my post again. Literally said nobody should listen to my town read of you.colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:11 pmYeah this is crap reasoning, that's not a particular reason for me to be town over anybody else.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:05 pmI miscounted the baddie team of four as a baddie team of three. If Epi and Nutella are bad, you have a 1/whatever chance of being bad. If only Epi is bad, you have a 2/whatever chance.colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:51 pmI don't understand the "one of two scummers instead of only one" statement at all.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:48 pmIs the problem that my numbers are off due to misremembering the number of baddies in this game?colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:05 pmElaborate please?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:39 pm Additionally, Nutella being town in my book means you could be one of two scummers instead of only one (Indy aside) so you're twice as likely to be bad. That was the main reason you were probably good.
What's confusing/odd?
But it's actually 2/whatever and 3/whatever.
Like I said in that very post, everyone else would be statistically likely to be good based on that POE.
Making excuses?
an older syndicate veteran would be able to answer this better.
link plsJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:01 pm One time, LC claimed quadruple cop who found the whole mafia on night one, then got four townies lynched but nobody though he was bad cause it seemed too ballsy of a play. In fact the serial killer got him cause he thought LC was confirmed town.
True story.
Eastern USA is UTC-5 in the winter, -4 in the summer.nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:44 pm colonialbob -- don't know
Dom -- eastern
Dragon D. Luffy -- eastern i think (brazil)
DrWilgy -- don't know
Elohcin -- eastern
Epignosis -- eastern
Glorfindel -- uhh I forget
Jackofhearts2005 -- don't know
Kylemii -- pacific
Long Con -- eastern
Mesk514 -- don't know
MovingPictures07 -- central
nutella -- pacific
Quin -- oz
sig -- don't know
Sloonei -- eastern i think?
Spacedaisy -- central
speedchuck -- not sure
sprityo -- not sure
You guys really like names don't you.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:56 pm @Elohcin
@Dragon D. Luffy
Who kind of wants to vote for Epi?
People that think Epi is scum but are voting for someone they also think is scum don't count. Who are the vultures?
Yes. Why make an accusation if it's not really directed at anyone?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:18 pmYou guys really like names don't you.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:56 pm @Elohcin
@Dragon D. Luffy
Who kind of wants to vote for Epi?
People that think Epi is scum but are voting for someone they also think is scum don't count. Who are the vultures?
Because the point was not to make an accusation. It was to defend Epi.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:19 pmYes. Why make an accusation if it's not really directed at anyone?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:18 pmYou guys really like names don't you.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:56 pm @Elohcin
@Dragon D. Luffy
Who kind of wants to vote for Epi?
People that think Epi is scum but are voting for someone they also think is scum don't count. Who are the vultures?
But your defense of Epi implies that other players are being shady. You can't have the defense without any accusations.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:22 pmBecause the point was not to make an accusation. It was to defend Epi.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:19 pmYes. Why make an accusation if it's not really directed at anyone?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:18 pmYou guys really like names don't you.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:56 pm @Elohcin
@Dragon D. Luffy
Who kind of wants to vote for Epi?
People that think Epi is scum but are voting for someone they also think is scum don't count. Who are the vultures?
Anyway, once i'm catch up I'll humor you. I'll give the list of everyone who gave me that feeling. Just don't expect me to have reads on them. Not my style.
This post gives me a very political vibe.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:55 pm I've said my piece on today's lynch. Plenty of other people haven't provided much content so I'll give them a chance to catch up or speak.
I'll be lurking until EOD in case anyone has questions or I need to move my vote.
If there is a horde of players being shady I can guess some of them are bad but I don't know which ones.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:29 pmBut your defense of Epi implies that other players are being shady. You can't have the defense without any accusations.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:22 pmBecause the point was not to make an accusation. It was to defend Epi.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:19 pmYes. Why make an accusation if it's not really directed at anyone?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:18 pmYou guys really like names don't you.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:56 pm @Elohcin
@Dragon D. Luffy
Who kind of wants to vote for Epi?
People that think Epi is scum but are voting for someone they also think is scum don't count. Who are the vultures?
Anyway, once i'm catch up I'll humor you. I'll give the list of everyone who gave me that feeling. Just don't expect me to have reads on them. Not my style.
I'm still not seeing any names.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:30 pmIf there is a horde of players being shady I can guess some of them are bad but I don't know which ones.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:29 pmBut your defense of Epi implies that other players are being shady. You can't have the defense without any accusations.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:22 pmBecause the point was not to make an accusation. It was to defend Epi.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:19 pmYes. Why make an accusation if it's not really directed at anyone?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:18 pmYou guys really like names don't you.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:56 pm @Elohcin
@Dragon D. Luffy
Who kind of wants to vote for Epi?
People that think Epi is scum but are voting for someone they also think is scum don't count. Who are the vultures?
Anyway, once i'm catch up I'll humor you. I'll give the list of everyone who gave me that feeling. Just don't expect me to have reads on them. Not my style.
How do you feel about each of us now?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:34 pm sloonei
nutella
LC
There, just looked at the thread and listed the people.
Now imma go back to catch up.
Because going to the Speakeasy takes too many extra clicks.Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:38 amAt this stage, I had two votes for sure (LC and Quin).Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:39 am I don't like this Epi lynch. Feels like there's a bunch of scum surrounding him like vultures waiting to see if they can lynch him or not. Lots of people "kind of" wanting to vote for him.
DDL made a sweeping accusation of people who had not voted for me. He voted Sloonei at one point for "fence-sitting," but then voted nutella. His votes are thus quite consistent with his posts, except for this:
I don't understand why this post exists.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:23 pm I've just noticed something, after reading Bob's "vote early/often" expression.
In a standard NF game I change my vote 3-4 times every phase, give or take. I vote often and boldly.
But here I feel like I have some restraint voting, perhaps because of the first games I played in this forum that didn't allow changing votes.
I've been having better results as a civ there than here, so I'll try to keep that in mind. I should vote more often.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:29 pm Just a friendly reminder that the buddying case on Epi was just the worst
Assuming someone is bad and then assigning evil motivations to everything he does isn't hunting. It's bullshit.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:16 pmSaying someone is acting bad assumes they really are bad. Otherwise, you're misinterpreting.Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:00 pmDoes it ever occur to you that...Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:50 pm*eyebrow raise*Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:34 pm What I do find confusing Jack is why you both believe Epi is bad and at the same time said you agree with him that Nutella is bad and your vote ended on Nutella. Where do you stand currently on Epi?
I thought I agreed with Epi on Night 1 that Nutella was good. If Epi agreed with me she was bad, that coincidental. My D1 Nutella read predated him taking a loud stance on her.
I still think Epi is bad. I want him to be good but the buddying and trying to scare people off him instead of hunting and pretending to not understand the case on him (misrepresenting LC) are still there so he's still bad imo.
...I'm only "buddying" somebody if I'm bad? (Circular argument)
...Scaring people off me is only a bad thing if I'm bad? (Circular argument)
...Not "hunting" is only your perspective because you assume I'm bad? (Circular argument)
...I'm not pretending to not understand the case on me because the case is circular bullshit?
You don't want me to be good. You want me to be bad.
Ergo, all scumhunting is bunk.
I don't understand people's perception of me.nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:42 pmI just figured it wasn't typical Epi behavior. Quin said the "ok I'm voting for Epi, do you guys know why" thing and I instantly understood that he was reacting to Epi naming townreads (or at least people he wouldn't vote for, whatever) since he posted it right after the post in question, and I took Quin's post to imply that he found that to be specifically unusual for Epi to do. I have nothing against naming townreads as a D1 behavior in general, but specifically Epi doing so felt out of character.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:36 pmAll Epi did was throw out a couple of names that pleased him, in one form or another, and said he wasn't going to vote them D1.nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:31 pmwhy?speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:29 pm Just a friendly reminder that the buddying case on Epi was just the worst
Burden of proof on you guys. Give me a valid reason that this is scummy behavior. It doesn't make sense as a long game. Calling what Epi did "buddying" is like calling a D1 vote "hate mongering".
It's hard to argue against something that doesn't make sense, as Epi found out, but if you can explain the case in a way that doesn't sound insane, I'll give you some nebulous speedchuck points and rescind my opinion.
I gave a reason why I found Mesk good only. Not colonialbob.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:42 pmOkay, I've finally caught up instead of folding laundry as a good wife and mother would. I am overwhelmed with all the info.
I like daisy this game and feel she is civ. She seems to be genuinely scum-hunting. At first, I liked her accusations...thoyght they could be valid. After catching up though, and tonanswer her question to me, I feel Epi is being genuine. I actually believe him that he is trying to be nicer and back off on the insults. Everything he has said is true. When he referred to not voting for bob and mesk on day 1...he never did say he thought they were good. And he is right about being falsly accused of liking to bus teammates early in a game. His meta doesn't show that he likes to do that often.
Correct. It could be argued that LC was "buddying" ( ) Mesk, colonialbob, and Sloonei by calling them all civilians in one post. My point was "That's hypocritical bullshit, dude."Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:12 pmI think the questions about LC "knowing" certain players were civ was Epi throwing LC's logic back in his face. LC built a case where he makes broad assumptions about Epi, so Epi returns the favor. That's just how I saw it and he can tell me I'm wrong.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:55 pmWhat about the bits regarding bad handwaives of noncircular reasoning as circular reasoning and junk about "how does LC know those players are civs" etc?Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:23 pm I am the person Epi allegedly tried to intimidate on Day 1. He was not trying to intimidate me.
I was also the first person to bring up what has been dubbed his "buddying" of two players. I do not think this is a valid line of suspicion. It is on par with my Day 0 Daisy prod.
The case against Epignosis is a silly one.
Do you think Epi was being dishonest? Do you think any of that was alignment indicative?
I don't know what else you are referring to here.
In this setup.