I wanted to look over speedchuck's ISO, because he's a mainline player right now that has sidestepped most attention. So far, not such a good look to me.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm
If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:
Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.
However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.
We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?
Speedchuck's first real post was a mechanics post with a twist. JJJ (? I think?) presented it as a Civ indicator - like speedchuck had a Civ mindset from which he built this idea. Looking back at speedy's ISO, I don't agree with that. I fairly commonly will start a game with a role analysis overview, with some 'questions to the public' on how to most-Civviely proceed with certain roles. I do this often as a Civ, and often enough as a baddie. I always feel some smugness when I'm Civ and get called out for it, because it validates my baddie use of it. My point is, that it's NAI, as the cool dudes say.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:20 pm
Three scumreads on Kylemii, all for different reasons. If Jay is being serious. That's crazy.
And nobody in the thread is trying to defend him. Also crazy.
I put scum Kylemii at like... idk, 60% odds?
LC/Kyle not w/w.
FZ./Kyle not w/w.
"Disgusting." The effect of the first line is to focus attention MORE on Kyle, with the editorial that it's crazy that this could be happening. What does it mean to put that out there? Is it honest bewilderment, like "Wow whoa, that's so crazy wow!" or is it nudging a light agenda, like "That's maybe too crazy to be a coincidence". He puts out the "crazy" twice, and then give a scum rating that is JUST high enough to be "I'd lynch him if it came down to it, and this number would cover my ass about it" but low enough to withstand a drop below 50% and suddenly Kyle is cool, if the tides shifted even slightly. That is just bogus to me.
It's the w/w part that I really don't like. This is a fine way to buddy, if speedchuck is bad: You don't have to say the players are Civ and put yourself out there for TMI comments... you just create a situation where they're "not Mafia with..." and push a 60% Kyle-bad agenda. The bonus is that when Kyle flips Civ, LC and FZ are suddenly the "possible Wolf" side of the pair, creating a natural opening for the midgame push to those players.
Not to mention that "not w/w" has to be the darling of the baddie world... you get to give opinions without committing to reading ANYONE as Civ OR bad! Poor form.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:36 pm
FZ. wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:29 pm
Speedchuck, can you explain what w/w is?
wolf/wolf
mafia/mafia
You two are probably not on a team together, is what I'm saying
linki: as for your second post, I could see FZ and LC's points on Kylemii. For a guy who probably knew that JJJ's suspicion was just pressure, he sure acted very seriously about it. But, at the same time, no teammates have influenced the thread either.
Those reasons.
" For a guy who probably knew that JJJ's suspicion was just pressure, he sure acted very seriously about it. But, at the same time, no teammates have influenced the thread either."
" For a guy who probably knew that JJJ's suspicion was just pressure, he sure acted very seriously about it. But, at the same time, no teammates have influenced the thread either."
" For a guy who probably knew that JJJ's suspicion was just pressure, he sure acted very seriously about it. But, at the same time, no teammates have influenced the thread either."
I just pasted it a couple of extra times because I actually hate this very much.
Easy adjective: wishy-washy. If that floats your boat. Doesn't always do much for me, but this is clearly a wishy-washy statement.
My problem is that this says: "You all can probably see that Kyle is bad. But here's a meaningless reason why he's not."
How early was this? Is that how you all act when you're on a baddie team? You rush to your teammate's defense on Day 0 because JJJ said some silly stuff? Balderdash! Why would you act like you assume a guy with baddie teammates would have them "rushing to his aid"? What??
I can't stop reading these sentences over and over. It just grates on me more and more every time. I have to move on.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:55 pm
I still have a scumread on Kylemii. Stronger than before Jay dropped the suspicion.
If I still have it come Day 1 Start I'll tell you why.
Winky intrigue aside, if speedchuck is bad, then it behooves him to hang on to a suspicion, and to make it more his own by pointing out that Jay dropped it.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:55 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:29 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:28 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:19 am
Jay and Kyle are highly unlikely scum partners, but I could see one or the other being scum.
... don't know if I agree with this.
which part?
First part. :P
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 am
Non-fiction dialogue:
Anyone who really believes I would prefer to whip this thread into a frenzy
for appearances than just let it snail along with nothing but theme-inspired chatter has no clue about my mafia-aligned play. No clue.
Yeah I don't trust your calls to meta. It bothers me more that you said this than the rest of your play this game.
This is all negative. Every single word is working to place suspicion on the people he's talking about.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:22 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:01 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:55 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:29 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:28 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:19 am
Jay and Kyle are highly unlikely scum partners, but I could see one or the other being scum.
... don't know if I agree with this.
which part?
First part. :P
My scum read on Kyle is contingent on him being made genuinely uncomfortable bu Jay's fake scumtell on him. I can only see them as compatible partners if that was an elaborate distancing measure to kick off the game.
I don't have a meta read on Kylemii mafia. But I'm personally always more emotional and reactive as mafia. Check out Pirates. I don't see that as a factor.
More negativity, Kyle was emotional and reactive, so Speedchuck anecdotally points the finger at him again.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:17 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:14 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:41 amBelieve me or don't, this entire dialogue is just WIFOM to people who aren't me.
the other stuff you've said basically amounts to sandbagging but this part is a valid point, I think
That's not a point. That's like... a disclaimer or something.
Jabbing at Kyle. Looking for more emotional reactions?
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:24 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:20 am
I’m frankly fine with being mislynched if Epignosis gets hanged immediately thereafter. Sometimes that’s what it takes for anyone to critically assess that dude.
So you're saying there's practically ~0% chance you are both town?
Cause if not, you've consigned us to two mislynches there. Which is more of a frustrated action than one that is seeking the best for town.
NAI, necessarily.
Just looking at this from the perspective that Speedchuck is bad and JJJ and Epi are good... everything he says is a clever thing to say. The "0% chance" reinforces the forced dichotomy that JJJ's (emotional) statements suggest. The "two mislynches" becomes "speedchuck tried to warn us" later. Then "... best for town" throws doubt on JJJ, BUT he instantly tops it off with "NAI"... so, what, that last sentence that implies JJJ doesn't really want what's best for town should be disregarded?
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:57 pm
JJJ: "I am good because I'm doing what I normally do D1, and what I would only do as town. It would make no sense if I did this as scum."
Also JJJ: "I don't care what Epi usually does when he's town. It's scummy. I hate it, and that defines my read. Don't care if it makes no sense for him to do this as scum."
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:10 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 am
Anyone who really believes I would prefer to whip this thread into a frenzy
for appearances than just let it snail along with nothing but theme-inspired chatter has no clue about my mafia-aligned play. No clue.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:48 pm
Anyway, to answer your question LC, I don't care what is perceived to be "normal" for Epignosis. This kind of "that's Epi being Epi" shit is what he has thrived on as a bad guy since I joined this website and probably long before. He can do or say basically anything and people refuse to actually dig into it with any thoroughness -- it's infuriating. If I see something that I hate at face value, then that is going to define my read. You might understand where I stand better than most here because you have gotten into plenty of Day 1 combat with Epignosis. In the scenarios where you both ended up being town, can you describe in general terms the behavior you have felt is so suspicious that you ended up wrong about? Don't spend a lot of time on this since it's external meta; I'm just asking for a tip.
I guess I can't paraphrase, then.
Jumping in to nitpick JJJ. JJJ is involved in a JJJ-Epi thing, where both of them are calling each other bad, and speedchuck comes in from the sidelines to simplify two paragraphs of JJJ's into a mirror-image, 100% hypocritical exposé.
That takes some real focus, like he wanted to make this conclusion happen, and went about doing it. Go ahead and read the two paragraphs he conflated. I can't, in any honest fashion, make speedchuck's analysis work. It's two different players, two different gaming prersonalities, two different conversations, two different situations, and one is a SELF-analysis, which brings in so much extra baggage that the comparison becomes thin-ice-fragile immediately. And yet he opens the comparison with a levered- and shimmied-in sound bite that reflects none of that.
That's all I have for this night. I hoped I'd get farther through speedchuck's ISO, but the stuff I did look at just made me write so much. I never even got back to Mortal Kombat to catch up there. Good night. I'm placing a vote on speedchuck because he looks pretty bad right now.