Game of Champions 2017 - GAME OVER

[Epignosis]

LoRab pushed the button. I feel we can't have a discussion about her without mentioning that.

That's what merged the tribes, no?

Maybe. The pushing of the button reshuffled the tribes. It seems the merger was triggered by LoRab's first death.

That's correct.

I like the idea that by pushing the button the second time, Lorab merged the tribes but also blew herself up, since the pushing of the button seems to be a time-sensitive power. If that's the case, then I'd say Lorab's first incarnation was civilian.

[Sloonei]

I didn't realize it had two charges. My button in CC-123 only had one charge.

[Scotty]

LoRab pushed the button. I feel we can't have a discussion about her without mentioning that.

And is the button necessarily a role that is geared more towards civ use? It’s more a mechanical flavoring role, which doesn’t really benefit either team.

We also don’t know what the second use of the button was. For all we know, it could have killed a random person. Or it could have been the same effect as her death brought about.

I'm not sure. It's worth noting that she waited until Day 8 to push it when we had most of our tribe telling her to push it real good the moment we arrived. Why she chose to push it at that exact moment is something to be looked into, though I'm not sure she'd be able to illuminate us much within the rules.

Yea the problem with bringing the button into this is she can’t inherently defend against it, because it’s agains the rules. So it’s all speculation here.

But what’s a game of mafia without a healthy smattering of speculation?

[Scotty]

LoRab pushed the button. I feel we can't have a discussion about her without mentioning that.

That's what merged the tribes, no?

Maybe. The pushing of the button reshuffled the tribes. It seems the merger was triggered by LoRab's first death.

That's correct.

I like the idea that by pushing the button the second time, Lorab merged the tribes but also blew herself up, since the pushing of the button seems to be a time-sensitive power. If that's the case, then I'd say Lorab's first incarnation was civilian.

What gives you the inclination that it was time sensitive?

It seems more likely that there’s the chance that Golden left the merge in the hands of LoRab’s life, and that if she refrained from ever pressing it, her death would trigger the merge and we would never have been swapped.

[Epignosis]

Well, upon looking again, Golden announced when the button was pushed.

There was no such announcement when Lorab died and the tribes merged.

[Sloonei]

I am of the opinion that LoRab was murdered in cold blood, but she seems like an odd choice for that, given that speedchuck was also there at the time.

[Golden]

Well, upon looking again, Golden announced when the button was pushed.

There was no such announcement when Lorab died and the tribes merged.

I thought it was self-evident from the role reveal. That doesn't mean LoRab chose to push it (she may or may not have). But it was the button's effect that merged the tribes.

[sprityo]

Dragon D. Luffy can you give me that patented GMan vote flowchart you gave us in FE?

Maybe. Which day?

this past one

[Kylemii]

Kylemii voting for chuck makes me feel ok about my calling him out randomly.

why do you say that? tell me one thing that should have indicated that he wasn't a mafia member

@DharmaHelper like for real what makes my vote for speedchuck stand out to you over every other player who came to the exact same conclusion as I did

You seem to have come to the exact same conclusion as everyone else, not the other way around. Very important distinction.

bc it was the most likely conclusion. any combination of events where speedchuck wasn't bad would have involved a bunch of unknowable variables being in place.

you also didn't answer my question. what indication was there that speedchuck wasn't mafia?

[DharmaHelper]

Kylemii voting for chuck makes me feel ok about my calling him out randomly.

why do you say that? tell me one thing that should have indicated that he wasn't a mafia member

@DharmaHelper like for real what makes my vote for speedchuck stand out to you over every other player who came to the exact same conclusion as I did

You seem to have come to the exact same conclusion as everyone else, not the other way around. Very important distinction.

bc it was the most likely conclusion. any combination of events where speedchuck wasn't bad would have involved a bunch of unknowable variables being in place.

you also didn't answer my question. what indication was there that speedchuck wasn't mafia?

What does that have to do with anything? There were indications that Chuck would flip civ.

[Kylemii]

Kylemii voting for chuck makes me feel ok about my calling him out randomly.

why do you say that? tell me one thing that should have indicated that he wasn't a mafia member

@DharmaHelper like for real what makes my vote for speedchuck stand out to you over every other player who came to the exact same conclusion as I did

You seem to have come to the exact same conclusion as everyone else, not the other way around. Very important distinction.

bc it was the most likely conclusion. any combination of events where speedchuck wasn't bad would have involved a bunch of unknowable variables being in place.

you also didn't answer my question. what indication was there that speedchuck wasn't mafia?

What does that have to do with anything? There were indications that Chuck would flip civ.

yes that's exactly what I'm asking, what were they?

[Kylemii]

it has a lot to do with anything cus you're acting as if speedchuck flipping civ should have been an expected result when everything indicated that the opposite thing would take place

[Kylemii]

[mention]DharmaHelper[/mention]

[DharmaHelper]

Should I be expected to do all the work for you Kyle? His decent reads/hunting for baddies, SVS's posts to name just two factors of many. The Chuck vote reeks of mafia involvement.

[Epignosis]

Should I be expected to do all the work for you Kyle? His decent reads/hunting for baddies, SVS's posts to name just two factors of many. The Chuck vote reeks of mafia involvement.

I thank @speedchuck for playing a great game and also proving once and for all that Rainbow Lists are useless garbage trash.

[DharmaHelper]

Should I be expected to do all the work for you Kyle? His decent reads/hunting for baddies, SVS's posts to name just two factors of many. The Chuck vote reeks of mafia involvement.

I thank @speedchuck for playing a great game and also proving once and for all that Rainbow Lists are useless garbage trash.

That you people think "rainbow lists" and "reads" are the same thing is the exact problem.

[Sloonei]

Rainbow lists are a way of categorizing and presenting reads that is clear and easy to follow. They're a handy tool for identifying where people stand in relation to others.

[Sloonei]

Has anybody posted a rainbow in here yet?

[DharmaHelper]

Rainbow lists are a way of categorizing and presenting reads that is clear and easy to follow. They're a handy tool for identifying where people stand in relation to others.

They're an arbitrary substitute for actual civ work.

[Sloonei]

Rainbow lists are a way of categorizing and presenting reads that is clear and easy to follow. They're a handy tool for identifying where people stand in relation to others.

They're an arbitrary substitute for actual civ work.

They're not a subtitute for anything. They're a supplement to civ work.

[Scotty]

Has anybody posted a rainbow in here yet?

Speed posted one right before he died as well as earlier in the game on Pikachu 1.0

Not sure if anyone else posted one

[LoRab]

I obviously can't say much about my first role. What I can say is that I hesitated to use it in the beginning because I was scared of what it would do. The advice to push it came from people I didn't necessarily trust (which would be, well, anyone other than me) and was based entirely on what the role did in the original game--roles have generally not been identical this game so I didn't want to base it on that. Also, it sounds like it kind of had a sucky result in the original game, so I didn't want to base on that regardless.

[Epignosis]

I obviously can't say much about my first role. What I can say is that I hesitated to use it in the beginning because I was scared of what it would do. The advice to push it came from people I didn't necessarily trust (which would be, well, anyone other than me) and was based entirely on what the role did in the original game--roles have generally not been identical this game so I didn't want to base it on that. Also, it sounds like it kind of had a sucky result in the original game, so I didn't want to base on that regardless.

Regardless of what you intended, I think the outcome of your timing could not have been better.

[Golden]

MacDougall was not satisfied with progress. Everthing seemed to move much more slowly out here in space. Sure, the scenery was good, but what did that matter when he was making no tangible impact towards his own nebulous end goals.

"I don't even have to have an end goal" said MacDougall "Why can't I just be a menacing, faceless baddie like all good baddies are". MacDougall tended to get in these moods when his acolytes were late.

As it happened, they never showed up at all.

No-one has died. It is now day 11. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[Epignosis]

That's a beautiful thing.

[Scotty]

Interesting. We’ve now had a quiet night on both an odd and even night..one was probably marmot’s 1st role, and we know a kill will still be sent out randomly if no one sends one in, so ???

Got some tomfoolery up in hurr

[Sloonei]

Host post may suggest an inactive baddie team.

[Scotty]

I’m all for Wilgy being lynched today.

But I am looking at a couple more people for next lynch as well. I’m going to back off LoRab for the time being. I feel as though she started indie, and could now be anything. She could even be a boat. (That’s a Peter griffin joke, I’m not calling LoRab a boat)

[Scotty]

Host post may suggest an inactive baddie team.

Inactive = / = no kill, as Golden clarified. A kill still went out, it could just have been random

[Epignosis]

Mmm.

Interesting. We’ve now had a quiet night on both an odd and even night..one was probably marmot’s 1st role, and we know a kill will still be sent out randomly if no one sends one in, so ???

Got some tomfoolery up in hurr

How do we know that, Scotty?

Some roles will have their targets randomised if you do not send a PM, so if you want to make a tactical choice not to use your night power, please PM the host to check first.

[S~V~S]

Dear Refrigerator, sorry I pitched a hissy. I do appreciate you thinking of me

Host post may suggest an inactive baddie team.

As Scotty says, the host says powers not sent it will be randomized. A refreshing thing, imo. I'm going to guess a block or a protection. Yay smart person! But I like this mechanic, it prevents people from falling back on the "oh, no kill? Must be inactives, let's lynch the quiet folks" baddie stereotype lynches.

As always I tilt at my own windmills, lol. I did not post much the last few days but I paid attention. I still think Chuck was bad, I would have liked to watch him a few days when he thought he was not being watched, but meh.

I plan to reread Niju, Sloonei (daunting as that may be),DDL. At this point, if I had to vote now it would be Niju.

While INH feels genuine to me, so does sig. Although we apparently came to different conclusions re Chuck, Quin and I travelled the same road most of the way so he is the person I probably feel the best about, and Epi as well. He does not always get what I am saying, but he tries, which is not something I could say for bad Epi. My thoughts on Scotty have moderated, i finally finished him at Cerberus, I want to reread him here, too. What happened to Boomslang?

Linki, based on what the host said, I made the same assumption.

[S~V~S]

Oh, I get your point. Tactical choice. But still the "Let's lynch no posters" would be eliminated by that "tactical choice" thing.

[Epignosis]

It's some roles. Not all roles. Some roles get randomly submitted because I suspect that it is within their nature to have some part in this setup.

Kills being randomized by the host would be something I would balk at.

[LoRab]

I’m all for Wilgy being lynched today.

But I am looking at a couple more people for next lynch as well. I’m going to back off LoRab for the time being. I feel as though she started indie, and could now be anything. She could even be a boat. (That’s a Peter griffin joke, I’m not calling LoRab a boat)

Thanks for that clarification, lol.

Interesting. We’ve now had a quiet night on both an odd and even night..one was probably marmot’s 1st role, and we know a kill will still be sent out randomly if no one sends one in, so ???

Got some tomfoolery up in hurr

And yeah--what Epi said. The rules say this:

THE RULES: READ THESE CAREFULLY


4) You may not target someone on two consecutive nights unless your role says otherwise. Some roles will have their targets randomised if you do not send a PM, so if you want to make a tactical choice not to use your night power, please PM the host to check first. All targeting roles need to send a PM to both golden and juliets at least two hours before deadline.

I don't see anything there about a kill....so.....uh....

[S~V~S]

It's some roles. Not all roles. Some roles get randomly submitted because I suspect that it is within their nature to have some part in this setup.

Kills being randomized by the host would be something I would balk at.

I wouldn't. Use it or lose it, tbh. But this is a matter or personal opinion at this point, and what I *WOULD* balk at would be lynching people because "Maybe there was an inactive on the baddie team" in a game where we don't know if there is a protector, a blocker, both or other. AND we don't know which roles Golden might or might not choose to randomize. Which, unlike the game mechanics, is something that IS in our power to control.

Linki, it says "some roles" not which ones.Might be the kill, might not. Don't want to lynch people based on it.

[DharmaHelper]

Carnival of Death
The name is so ironic
Since no one has died.

[Epignosis]

It's some roles. Not all roles. Some roles get randomly submitted because I suspect that it is within their nature to have some part in this setup.

Kills being randomized by the host would be something I would balk at.

I wouldn't. Use it or lose it, tbh. But this is a matter or personal opinion at this point, and what I *WOULD* balk at would be lynching people because "Maybe there was an inactive on the baddie team" in a game where we don't know if there is a protector, a blocker, both or other. AND we don't know which roles Golden might or might not choose to randomize. Which, unlike the game mechanics, is something that IS in our power to control.

Linki, it says "some roles" not which ones.Might be the kill, might not. Don't want to lynch people based on it.

I wasn't lynching DrWilgy because there was no kill tonight.

I was lynching DrWilgy before tonight.

And I do believe we have lazy mafia at this juncture.

Five people have died. It's Day 11.

Three of those were mafia.

One was doubly Night-killed, presumably by one team.

One was lynched, and it was speedchuck, and he had no business being at endgame because of the circumstances.

This is civilian territory right here. Eleven phases, three dead mafia, and only two dead civilians.

If there was ever a time for mafia to throw up their hands, this is it.

Because I'm a coming for ye.

[S~V~S]

I was not talking about you, Mr Sensitive.

[DharmaHelper]

Epi on the hunt
Mafia better watch out
This was a haiku

[S~V~S]

Actually, I was talking about Sloonei, but if you want to get all self righteous, go at it.

[Epignosis]

I was not talking about you, Mr Sensitive.

Sloonei wasn't lynching DrWilgy based on that either, Ms. Sensitive.

[Epignosis]

As promised, I want to look into INH and sig before I lay my vote down.

[DharmaHelper]

We can argue but
I think we can all agree
I am the best, duh.

[S~V~S]

I was not talking about you, Mr Sensitive.

Sloonei wasn't lynching DrWilgy based on that either, Ms. Sensitive.

I wasn't the one getting all worked up over this

And it is my experience that the first one to say "No kill! Must be an inactive forgot to send in a kill" is a baddie. That's why i said that.

Glad you know Slooneis motives. I sure don't.

[Epignosis]

I'm not worked up. I'm hyped over the mafias losing.

Sloonei voted for Wilgy because he thinks Wilgy killed sprityo. I have no reason to doubt that.

[Sloonei]

The host post mentions a mafia team failing to show up. I'm just tryna point that out, y'all.

[DharmaHelper]

Rob is right of course
civvies are kicking much ass
with me at the helm

[sprityo]

Rob is right of course
civvies are kicking much ass
with me at the helm

huehue hue

[Epignosis]

Imagine ten phases of Mafia.

Three mafia dead to only two civilians.

That's a minefield of discussion and interactions. Go Easter egg hunting people. Or gold digging. Whatever you want to find in minefields.

Wait, minefields are NOT good things to go hunting in.

I may have had a few beers.