Firefly, The Game [GAME OVER]

[Turnip Head]

Wifom is my middle name

[speedchuck]

Wifom is my middle name

Not helping your case there, Mr. Turnip Wifom Head

[insertnamehere]

@novaselinenever what do you think we should do? INH hasn't been around much today but I was feeling okay about him when he was here

One thing we shouldn't let happen is you getting lynched

Otherwise, I'm clueless. I'm rethinking my read on Wilgy since I trust some people on that wagon, and the Sokoth thing might be there but I'm just blind or too stubborn/bias.

I don't feel great about INH. He's been only going after me and Luna when he was here. The part on me felt like just shadowing Golden's read, a player read as Town throughout the board and a Town leader. Not sure I felt any conviction in his posts about me, and I only got back to him when I was a bit tilted from his view on me (more as a player than this game in particular).

The Luna thing had some merit tbf, but he pushed it like a robot lol. I never really felt like he had any intention to get to the bottom of things with it, nor was he willing to let it develop. A feeling you get with Townies, because sometimes they're unsure. He just stuck with " Luna = Bad " and he's been going with it, and it helped him from having to contribute to other discussion. He's EoD1 is pretty interesting, and it's what I'm talking about. He was willing to vote only me and Luna. He allegedly didn't like Mac's lynch, but wasn't willing to compromise to save him. It can be seen as a baddie that got two flashy, developed fake reads (me and Luna) and he's sticking to them lol. You know, to prevent any inconsistencies. His change of read on DDL was an interesting bit as well. Not sure I agree with his assessments of DDL's behavior, and I cannot fathom how he "understood" DDL's logic.

All this to say, I think INH is a lynch I can get behind. I can vibe with an Enrique one, since I'm fairly neutral on him. I wouldn't vote DH over these two.

If I put my tinfoil hat on, I lynch MacDougall lol. Sokoth mentioning Lapluie's absence was weird. Teammate alert. *takes tinfoil hat off*

This is a nice combination of reductive misinterpretations and "I disagree with this player's opinion, therefore it is shady."

I've gone after multiple players over the course of this game, including you, Luna, and DDL. I'm sorry if that's a small pool of suspects compared to how you play the game, but it's harder and generally takes longer for me to formulate suspects. A lot of this is the patented Nova NO U, where if you interact with him in a way where you disagree with him, he'll try and find a way to use to it to make you look bad. I agreed with Golden's case against him, therefore I'm cowardly "shadowing Golden's read." I didn't want to switch from Luna to SQ, as Nova tried to push me to do, at the end of Day 1, therefore I simply wasn't "willing to compromise to save [Mac]." I have a different read on DDL, and Nova simply "cannot fathom" my thinking. Me strongly pushing suspects that Nova disagrees with is me acting "like a robot." Having consistent suspects which don't change over the course of two days is just helping me "from having to contribute to other discussion." "INH has consistent reads because baddies want to have consistent reads in order to fool the town! Real civs constantly change their reads, y'know, like I do." This shit is just silly.

It's like after getting some town cred after SQ's lynch, Nova's using it to spite and smite anyone who doubted him.

Yes, I admit that Nova does look better after D2, and it's hard for me to justify having him in my pool of suspects, but these blatant smear tactics are enough to keep him from being a town read for me for the forseeable future.

[insertnamehere]

This is the requisite mea culpa/self-flagellation about SQ.

There are, to my mind, three reasons why I was resistant to suspect SQ.

1. Lack of familiarity with his gameplay. This was the first game I've been in with him in years. I simply didn't know what to expect, and my instincts were led astray.

2. For the past couple years or so, SQ, Daisy, DH, and I have regularly played together in a Star Trek chatroom game, where SQ plays our captain. I was so used to seeing him in that role, and his posts here highly resembled how he usually posts in that game, and I kinda comfortably conflated the two. Like, SQ's acting like his honorable captain dude in the Star Trek sim, therefore he's probably civilian.

3. He was on the Serenity. After the loss of Mac, (and even before) I wanted to protect my team as much as possible, because it seemed like people were hammering away at it, and our chances of winning missions seemed lower and lower as things progressed. I think that there's an impulse to townread members of your crew in this game. I fell prey to it. I'm a little worried that Golden is falling prey to it right now.

So yeah, I ballsed up. However, I think I had reasonable reasons for doing so.

[insertnamehere]

As for today's lynch, I probably won't have the chance to vote until late in the day. The three people I'm looking at, excepting myself, DH, Enrique, and Glorf, as I feel pretty good about all of them, are Wilgy, Lapluie, and TH. Right now, I'm leaning towards Wilgy. Silent Wilgys make me nervous. I'd rather he was loudly doing crazy shit, which'd make me more comfortable about him. Plus, as others have pointed out, SQ acted kinda weird towards him.

TH is someone I'd like to dig into the ISO of. He irked me earlier in the game because I thought that he was using his irreverent schtick as a way to avoid seriously engaging with the thread, and I'd like to see if that pattern continued.

Lapluie is a blank slate. Why not Lapluie? Can anyone give any reasons? Even if he's a civilian, he's an utterly unhelpful one. Probably the safest vote out of the three.

[insertnamehere]

Screw it, I'll pull the trigger on Wilgy just to make myself less nervous.

[VOTE: DRWILGY] aubergine

[DharmaHelper]

Oh great now I have to decide. Thanks INH

[Turnip Head]

[mention]insertnamehere[/mention] Lapluie transmogrified into FrankenMac

[Turnip Head]

Where even is wilgy

[ColinIsCool]

As for today's lynch, I probably won't have the chance to vote until late in the day. The three people I'm looking at, excepting myself, DH, Enrique, and Glorf, as I feel pretty good about all of them, are Wilgy, Lapluie, and TH. Right now, I'm leaning towards Wilgy. Silent Wilgys make me nervous. I'd rather he was loudly doing crazy shit, which'd make me more comfortable about him. Plus, as others have pointed out, SQ acted kinda weird towards him.

TH is someone I'd like to dig into the ISO of. He irked me earlier in the game because I thought that he was using his irreverent schtick as a way to avoid seriously engaging with the thread, and I'd like to see if that pattern continued.

Lapluie is a blank slate. Why not Lapluie? Can anyone give any reasons? Even if he's a civilian, he's an utterly unhelpful one. Probably the safest vote out of the three.

Lapluie is Mac 2. And I think why not Mac is, well, we have a bunch of actual cases and reasons to vote for people, whereas a vote there isn’t specifically for anything.

[Turnip Head]

TH is someone I'd like to dig into the ISO of. He irked me earlier in the game because I thought that he was using his irreverent schtick as a way to avoid seriously engaging with the thread, and I'd like to see if that pattern continued.

[speedchuck]

I don't know why INH has to defend himself for not wanting to lynch SQ. It's not like we had a great case. I hardly know what the case was. I was saving Luna.

[ColinIsCool]

I don't know why INH has to defend himself for not wanting to lynch SQ. It's not like we had a great case. I hardly know what the case was. I was saving Luna.

If INH is good, this gives me TMI vibes. People have to defend themselves in this game because we don’t know who anybody is, and the merits of the case are irrelevant — it’s who does what with it that matters.

[speedchuck]

I don't know why INH has to defend himself for not wanting to lynch SQ. It's not like we had a great case. I hardly know what the case was. I was saving Luna.

If INH is good, this gives me TMI vibes. People have to defend themselves in this game because we don’t know who anybody is, and the merits of the case are irrelevant — it’s who does what with it that matters.

The merits of a case are absolutely relevant.

There were legitimate reasons to vote for other players. Sokoth didn't have a very strong case on him. While that does influence what scum would do with their vote, it also influences town. Voter analysis is more complicated than "That person was against the scum lynch, so therefore they're scum." Especially with a lynch like Sokoth's, which bordered on being a fluke.

The reason I'm weirded out by INH specifically is that I think he's garnered three votes for his position, even though it was explained before the lynch. Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough.

Not-voting for Sokoth yesterday is borderline NAI.

[insertnamehere]

inh doesn't explain why he leaned civ on Sokoth = ooh, inh is known for defending teammates while scum, and he decided not to go with Nova against SQ during the D1 EOD. gotta vote him.

inh explains why he leaned civ on Sokoth = ooh, inh just defended himself for no reason!!1 the SQ case was garbage anyway, i don't even know why anyone voted there anyway. he's protesting waaaay too much, he must be a nervous baddie! certainly not a nervous civ who has three votes on him! gotta vote him

The real reason I made that post is that I feel like I screwed up specifically with Sokoth due to certain factors (Star Trek, him being a part of my crew) that were relevant due to the discourse of the thread. If people are going to play like this is a team game with the crews, and blanket town read their crews, they could fall into the same damn trap that I did. The Star Trek connection is a link between SQ, DH, Daisy, and I that not many people are aware of, and could influence how we interact with one another. Plus, when I miss a baddie, I like to analyze my reasons for doing so. I'd like to think it helps me from making the same mistakes again.

[Lunalee]

Where even is wilgy

Wilgy showed up on the Bonanza for our last mission. He claimed life things had happened and apologized for being away. Last he posted, he was planning to review Sokoth's posts.

[ColinIsCool]

I’m going to move to Wilgy for now, but I think more discussion on INH will be a good thing.

[VOTE: WILGY] aubergine

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I don't know why INH has to defend himself for not wanting to lynch SQ. It's not like we had a great case. I hardly know what the case was. I was saving Luna.

If INH is good, this gives me TMI vibes. People have to defend themselves in this game because we don’t know who anybody is, and the merits of the case are irrelevant — it’s who does what with it that matters.

The merits of a case are absolutely relevant.

There were legitimate reasons to vote for other players. Sokoth didn't have a very strong case on him. While that does influence what scum would do with their vote, it also influences town. Voter analysis is more complicated than "That person was against the scum lynch, so therefore they're scum." Especially with a lynch like Sokoth's, which bordered on being a fluke.

The reason I'm weirded out by INH specifically is that I think he's garnered three votes for his position, even though it was explained before the lynch. Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough.

Not-voting for Sokoth yesterday is borderline NAI.

Now that's the time I explain my classic tell about how players who don't feel good with the scum lynch and think it was a fluke are more likely to be scum.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It's also the time when I wonder if the WIlgy lynch is going off too easily.

[Turnip Head]

What if there's no bad guys on the poll

[nutella]

What if there's no bad guys on the poll

You should either fire sig or put him on the poll next time

[nutella]

damn [mention]sig[/mention] hasn't posted since Thursday...

[Turnip Head]

I was waiting to get back to the ship to talk about sig but yeah he's dead weight

[DharmaHelper]

I'm going to go with TH.

VOTING TH

[Enrique]

Ok so nova's early case against sokoth looks legit in my book. Not finding anything from TH but apparently thats night exclusive.

So the issue is that nova showed doubt about it when sokoth wagon caught up, which could mean he wanted to distance with him but not outright bussing.

Am I correct here?

Counterpoint. Golden is right that they bussed him and in fact you are bad with both of them.

Do you believe that I made up the case on Sokoth, and bussed him?

“I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should be malleable and progressive, working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth. New ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant.”

The thing about nova and Sokoth is that while nova made a pretty mild case against him, it was Sokoth's reaction that really sealed it for him (in my read at least). I don't think it was pre-planned in any way or that Sokoth was responding to his teammate because of this, he felt seriously threatened. So I don't lean good on nova just because he voted / led the lynch against SQ, but because of Sokoth's own reaction to being on the spotlight for a second.

[speedchuck]

Now that's the time I explain my classic tell about how players who don't feel good with the scum lynch and think it was a fluke are more likely to be scum.

I can sorta see where you're coming from, but did YOU think that the Sokoth lynch happened due to pure, good scumhunting?

Because if it did, we should throw all sorts of suspicion on those who didn't vote there.

[speedchuck]

Now that's the time I explain my classic tell about how players who don't feel good with the scum lynch and think it was a fluke are more likely to be scum.

I can sorta see where you're coming from, but did YOU think that the Sokoth lynch happened due to pure, good scumhunting?

Because if it did, we should throw all sorts of suspicion on those who didn't vote there.

Furthermore, if the SQ case was really good and that's why he got lynched, why are we considering lynching the people who started it and gave the initial reasoning? Whatever it was.

I had company at the time. I don't know what the case on Sokoth was.

[Turnip Head]

I'm going to go with TH.

VOTING TH

[Spacedaisy]

The Shop has been updated with new items.i will allow items to be purchased through the night since my migraine kept me from getting it updated sooner.

[Turnip Head]

Kinda surprised an Enrique wagon never took off...

at least he's on the cursed ship. Maybe he'll get eaten by something

[Golden]

I now town read inh

[DharmaHelper]

I'm going to go with TH.

VOTING TH

I can't bring myself to vote for anyone else.

[Turnip Head]

Here's my rainbow:



ColinIsCool
DFaraday
DharmaHelper
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
Enrique
Epignosis
Glorfindel
Golden
insertnamehere
lapluie/Mac
Lunalee
Marmot
novaselinenever
nutella
sig
speedchuck
Turnip Head

[Golden]

I'm going to go with TH.

VOTING TH

I can't bring myself to vote for anyone else.

You can't vote for your own crew?

So all three of us are the same in that regard... interesting.

It's also interesting for me, thinking it through, that many people jumped on me for picking glorf but TH gets town cred for putting himself up. If me putting up glorf is a bad idea, then town!TH putting up himself is equally bad. But the reaction to the two is very different.

I don't understand why there are people who would vote Wilgy to save TH in this game (although its possibly really no different from me doing it for DDL, it's just that the reads are reversed).

Here's why I wanted to lynch TH instead of Wilgy right now. If TH is bad he's won two missions and with the heat he's taken, there's a decent chance he just vanishes from the poll now. Wilgy, on the other hand, is on a crew that isn't having the same rate of success, and I think DH would willingly put him back up on the block as well.

Having said that, I look at the voters on the two and - I'm with Enrique whose motives I don't trust, Mac who hasn't read much, and DH who 'can't vote anyone else'. On the Wilgy train is pretty much all my current town reads. And I do agree that the link Epi found to Sokoth is just another piece of evidence on the pile.

So, I'm voting [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine.

But I'd really like it if we have a robust discussion about TH's behaviour and motives before day end, because here's what I see, and I'd like people to engage with it and tell me why I'm right or why I'm wrong:

Immediate and consistent defence of Nova once I linked the two (to the point where if I'm wrong about nova, and I'm beginning to think I could be, TH could be pocketing him)
The kind of mind that would like to mess with captain selection
His iso is full, but it isn't full of much (but admittedly I felt the same in Courage)

Then there is this in his iso which I only just found:

Golden I like DDL too. I was about to drop sig like a baby orca for him

I hope we see you on the poll again soon Luffy. Real soon.

What created that shift, TH? Nothing in your iso, that's for sure.

[nutella]

Golden

speedchuck

[Turnip Head]

I liked DDL at first but I'm like 50/50 on him now.

[ColinIsCool]

You putting Glorf on isn’t the same as TH putting himself on. The risk for him is far greater than it is for you.

[Turnip Head]

My problem with you right now Golden is I don't see you second guessing your read of me at all, yet at the same time I don't feel like you're putting your full conviction into actually getting me lynched. You have a golden opportunity to do so atm. Makes me think you want to keep my hands tied like you did in Courage.

[Golden]

My problem with you right now Golden is I don't see you second guessing your read of me at all, yet at the same time I don't feel like you're putting your full conviction into actually getting me lynched. You have a golden opportunity to do so atm. Makes me think you want to keep my hands tied like you did in Courage.

Your problem with me would be any angle you could find, has been all game.

If people I trust engage with this case and start to agree with me, I'll be back voting you WITH them. If they keep telling me I'm wrong, my ears are open to that.

I think you're a better lynch than Wilgy today. I still think that now. But I also recognise I need to listen to others.

[Golden]

You putting Glorf on isn’t the same as TH putting himself on. The risk for him is far greater than it is for you.

"Oh my god TH you took such a great risk you must be town"

No. This is such bullshit. If I was mafia I would be putting myself on for exactly this reason. People need to stop giving others town points for things that are so easily manipulated. This is how I win games when bad, people. Just do stuff that makes you look like you're doing unnecessary things 'if bad' and everyone will townread you.

From TH's perspective, there was no reason to see it as risky. He had no previous votes and not really any heat. It's only become risky today, and even then, only because I, one of the game's loudest voices, have pushed it.

[Golden]

I honestly don't think it would be possible for me to get someone on TH's crew to vote for him and you all should think about that fact long and hard and ask yourself why he'd put himself on the poll if he's mafia, given that.

[Turnip Head]

I honestly don't think it would be possible for me to get someone on TH's crew to vote for him and you all should think about that fact long and hard and ask yourself why he'd put himself on the poll if he's mafia, given that.

[Golden]

You putting Glorf on isn’t the same as TH putting himself on. The risk for him is far greater than it is for you.

PS, btw...

Why is "risking yourself" a town move if you're town?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Now that's the time I explain my classic tell about how players who don't feel good with the scum lynch and think it was a fluke are more likely to be scum.

I can sorta see where you're coming from, but did YOU think that the Sokoth lynch happened due to pure, good scumhunting?

Because if it did, we should throw all sorts of suspicion on those who didn't vote there.

No, but I'm analysing your post in a vaccumn. There is an old tell that baddies tend to have a negative view of town. They call town on the whole stupid, they call civ lynches flukes, and so on. It's not universal but it's something I used to do a lot and I've seen it in other people.

[Golden]

I ask this knowing full well I probably would have done it if I didn't have glorf on my team, and I'm not saying there is no possible town mindset behind it (the town mindset is loyalty to your townreads). I'm just saying it's a false town flag. I'd do it as town or mafia, but the benefits as mafia are obvious to me.

[Glorfindel]

This is the requisite mea culpa/self-flagellation about SQ.

There are, to my mind, three reasons why I was resistant to suspect SQ.

1. Lack of familiarity with his gameplay. This was the first game I've been in with him in years. I simply didn't know what to expect, and my instincts were led astray.

2. For the past couple years or so, SQ, Daisy, DH, and I have regularly played together in a Star Trek chatroom game, where SQ plays our captain. I was so used to seeing him in that role, and his posts here highly resembled how he usually posts in that game, and I kinda comfortably conflated the two. Like, SQ's acting like his honorable captain dude in the Star Trek sim, therefore he's probably civilian.

3. He was on the Serenity. After the loss of Mac, (and even before) I wanted to protect my team as much as possible, because it seemed like people were hammering away at it, and our chances of winning missions seemed lower and lower as things progressed. I think that there's an impulse to townread members of your crew in this game. I fell prey to it. I'm a little worried that Golden is falling prey to it right now.

So yeah, I ballsed up. However, I think I had reasonable reasons for doing so.

I wholeheartedly endorse points 1 and 2 of this post.

[Spacedaisy]

This is the requisite mea culpa/self-flagellation about SQ.

There are, to my mind, three reasons why I was resistant to suspect SQ.

1. Lack of familiarity with his gameplay. This was the first game I've been in with him in years. I simply didn't know what to expect, and my instincts were led astray.

2. For the past couple years or so, SQ, Daisy, DH, and I have regularly played together in a Star Trek chatroom game, where SQ plays our captain. I was so used to seeing him in that role, and his posts here highly resembled how he usually posts in that game, and I kinda comfortably conflated the two. Like, SQ's acting like his honorable captain dude in the Star Trek sim, therefore he's probably civilian.

3. He was on the Serenity. After the loss of Mac, (and even before) I wanted to protect my team as much as possible, because it seemed like people were hammering away at it, and our chances of winning missions seemed lower and lower as things progressed. I think that there's an impulse to townread members of your crew in this game. I fell prey to it. I'm a little worried that Golden is falling prey to it right now.

So yeah, I ballsed up. However, I think I had reasonable reasons for doing so.

I wholeheartedly endorse points 1 and 2 of this post.

We miss Corky!

[Epignosis]

So...

[Epignosis]

...What the hell did I just spend this afternoon reading off and on? Twelve dozen posts of "Golden, you're doing it wrong" and thirteen dozen more of, "No I'm not I'm totally doing it right and if I was bad I'd totally be doing it the way other people are doing it."

Holy shit.

[Epignosis]

Golden, sweetie, watch this:

Spoiler: show

The crowd:

"Captain Epignosis, you putting Glorfindel on the poll is so stupid if you think he's good. What the hell, man!"

Epignosis: