Shockheaded Peter Mafia [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would welcome anyone providing an argument in favor of Jack being a civilian. There's been little verbal resistance to his candidacy for badness.

Aren’t you answering your own question?

It’s a crappy argument on its own.

[dunya]

have a great day at school, audrey!

[Elohcin]

Are we still doing the two townreads two scumreads thing, or am I too late to the party?

eeww....I don't like this question. Civs can always benefit from opinions like this and the fact that you are asking is making me change my opinion on you.

----------

I know, I know....Tasha, just read everything and THEN post. But then I would never post!!! It took me an hour and a half to get through 4 minutes of a tv show today....literally!!!!

[reywaS]

its more fun to impulse post and then correct yourself later tbh

[colonialbob]

Are we still doing the two townreads two scumreads thing, or am I too late to the party?

eeww....I don't like this question. Civs can always benefit from opinions like this and the fact that you are asking is making me change my opinion on you.

----------

I know, I know....Tasha, just read everything and THEN post. But then I would never post!!! It took me an hour and a half to get through 4 minutes of a tv show today....literally!!!!

Fwiw you don't have to apologise every time you post during your catch-up. I think your opinions as you go are valuable.

[Sloonei]

its more fun to impulse post and then correct yourself later tbh

[novaselinenever]

Who wants to lynch Audrey?

How about a lynch that might actually give us information

Seriously, since when has an inactive lynch ever benefited town

I hate this.

[colonialbob]

I would welcome anyone providing an argument in favor of Jack being a civilian. There's been little verbal resistance to his candidacy for badness.

Aren’t you answering your own question?

It’s a crappy argument on its own.

Has anybody else given a reason he's scummy?

[Elohcin]

It's not my favorite nutella post. "Have you played with me before" is bleh

It's a very nutella thing to say though.

-------------------------

okay, I am at the point in reading where everything is beginning to blur. I have to walk away for a bit. It's migraine week, and although meds help, I have to take a break from screens for a while.

[reywaS]

i ain't ridin no waves. Too busy makin my own waves, baby. Surfin on my own wave, baby.

[leetic]

Who wants to lynch Audrey?

How about a lynch that might actually give us information

Seriously, since when has an inactive lynch ever benefited town

i dont care for how you seem like you want to always give a pass to inactives...as if it is unheard of for mafia to fly under the radar by claiming busy-ness or some other excuse for being MIA. Ive done it many time myself.

I generally find inactives to be easy mislynches, so pushing for lynches on them is a behavior I consider scummy (I've won Fruit Bowl Mafia as scum by constantly lynching inactive players). Note that by inactive, I mean players that don't really post anything at all and are at risk of being subbed out, not players that seem to be hiding under the radar like you are referring to - that can definitely be considered scummy behavior.

Another thing throwing to consider is that Audrey is a new player, and it's easy to confuse scummy behavior with inexperienced town behavior. The best way to read Audrey will be to see how other people interact with her, and make inferences from there.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Well that didn't work.

I don't want to lynch Audrey. I was wondering if somebody would jump on it.

There's a wolf in Luna/speed/reywas prove me wrong

Why those three?

C'mon dog

C’mon what? You barely talk about Speed and Luna. They’re voting for the same player ie nobody. Rey and Speed have similar reads but Luna doesn’t.

I’m struggling to see the connection.

[colonialbob]

Well that didn't work.

I don't want to lynch Audrey. I was wondering if somebody would jump on it.

There's a wolf in Luna/speed/reywas prove me wrong

Why those three?

C'mon dog

C’mon what? You barely talk about Speed and Luna. They’re voting for the same player ie nobody. Rey and Speed have similar reads but Luna doesn’t.

I’m struggling to see the connection.

GTH reads my dude

[Sloonei]

I would welcome anyone providing an argument in favor of Jack being a civilian. There's been little verbal resistance to his candidacy for badness.

Aren’t you answering your own question?

It’s a crappy argument on its own.

Has anybody else given a reason he's scummy?

Yes.

[Sloonei]

[mention]leetic[/mention] I dig the work you’re doing on fleshing out your prior reads, but at the moment I’d be more interested in your take on current events. Talk to us about what’s been going on in the thread right now. Your voice is new to me and I want to hear it in a more immediate situation.

[sabie12]

So I think I have some kind of flu like viral infection thing so pardon my poor playing. I'm not very okay. I'm sorry all.

[sabie12]

Despite being ill I will continue to play. well out of the available options of people who have been voted for I'm willing to go with either speed or jack.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Despite being ill I will continue to play. well out of the available options of people who have been voted for I'm willing to go with either speed or jack.

I hope you feel better sabie, and I appreciate your willingness to soldier on.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would welcome anyone providing an argument in favor of Jack being a civilian. There's been little verbal resistance to his candidacy for badness.

Aren’t you answering your own question?

It’s a crappy argument on its own.

Has anybody else given a reason he's scummy?

Spoiler: show

Ping and Things:

~ Jackofhearts2005 giving me civilian credit (belief-in-myself credit?) for my dumb analysis of speedchuck's entry posts.

Ahh I was thinking of his assertion that Nova's first post about sabie was a joke.

I see. Yes that's a goofy moment for the Jack o' lantern. Given that nova explained the suspicion (and rendered it clearly a serious one) and Jack apparently missed that or interpreted it as an expansion of the joke (eh?) it implies Jack was only hardly reading the entry material -- not ideal.

He and speedchuck look cooperatively stinky.

I still think Nova’s initial post about catching Sabie looks like a joke in a vacuum.

I believe that you thought it was a joke. That doesn't make me feel great about your mindset when reading page one though.

Name a single game I have ever played with you where I wasn’t joking in my early posts, where I’m seriously down to business scumhunting on D0 and expecting Nova of all people to be doing the same.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Jackofhearts2005 telling jokes. That is irrelevant. This is a matter of novaselinenever and your perception of his post. After he had both made that post and expanded on his rationale, you still assumed he was joking. That suggests to me that you weren't really reading the posts to any thoughtful depth as necessary to play Mafia as an uninformed civilian -- even on the first page.

I don't care for Jack feeling a need to explain most of his reads in the midst of the exercise. They don't have to make sense; we're spitting shit out in a hurry.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, I refuse to give anyone a break in the game of Mafia simply for an "absence of scummy stuff". To me, an absence of civilian stuff is itself inherently scummy. Neutral does not exist.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"But that's how I play!!!" is a terrible defense and means nothing to me whatsoever.

[reywaS]

Who wants to lynch Audrey?

How about a lynch that might actually give us information

Seriously, since when has an inactive lynch ever benefited town

i dont care for how you seem like you want to always give a pass to inactives...as if it is unheard of for mafia to fly under the radar by claiming busy-ness or some other excuse for being MIA. Ive done it many time myself.

I generally find inactives to be easy mislynches, so pushing for lynches on them is a behavior I consider scummy (I've won Fruit Bowl Mafia as scum by constantly lynching inactive players). Note that by inactive, I mean players that don't really post anything at all and are at risk of being subbed out, not players that seem to be hiding under the radar like you are referring to - that can definitely be considered scummy behavior.

Another thing throwing to consider is that Audrey is a new player, and it's easy to confuse scummy behavior with inexperienced town behavior. The best way to read Audrey will be to see how other people interact with her, and make inferences from there.

fair enough

[sabie12]

Going with speed for now. He seemed more sketchy to me. For some reason I thought today was end of poll but yes tomorrow. Gonna go sleep forever and try to get better.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Elohcin is a civilian.

[colonialbob]

Also, I refuse to give anyone a break in the game of Mafia simply for an "absence of scummy stuff". To me, an absence of civilian stuff is itself inherently scummy. Neutral does not exist.

Yeah I know you had given reasons.

But to answer this point - I only bring this up in context of the "nobody is defending him/lots of people scumread him" conversation. He certainly has negative reasons to believe he's mafia (lack of reasons to townread him). I have not seen many people give positive reasons he is mafia (e.g. he did this and it pinged me).

(I will also note I merely said I was less inclined to lynch him, and that my vote has remained on him. He is still orange for me. Off to ISO him and check how he has responded to the pressure, plus look for others reasoning for scumreading him. Probably after I finish up at work, go home, and eat dinner though.)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We don't lynch in this pile:

colonialbob
Elohcin
JaggedJimmyJay
leetic
novaselinenever

We have three mafia members in this pile:

AudreyTheTattleTail
Jackofhearts2005
Lunalee
nutella
reywaS
sabie12
Sloonei
speedchuck

Please help me to narrow it further. Bare it all, civilians.

[Jackofhearts2005]

"But that's how I play!!!" is a terrible defense and means nothing to me whatsoever.

Is it a good town strategy to press players for things you should know are NAI for that player but sound scummy in general?

Is it a good mafia strategy?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"But that's how I play!!!" is a terrible defense and means nothing to me whatsoever.

Is it a good town strategy to press players for things you should know are NAI for that player but sound scummy in general?

Is it a good mafia strategy?

It is a terrible town strategy to give people a break for anything less than a clear indication of civilianhood, even if just subjectively clear. "You should be reading me as null" is not a gift you will ever receive from me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Now, meta reads have value and should be acknowledged.

"This is how ____ looks as a civilian" is a valid read.

"This is how ____ looks as a mafioso" is a valid read.

"This is how ____ looks both as a mafioso and as a civilian" is meaningless.

[Jackofhearts2005]

You know what? No. I’ve done this dance with Jay twice and he was town both times.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

AudreyTheTattleTail

For ease of access.

[Jackofhearts2005]

"But that's how I play!!!" is a terrible defense and means nothing to me whatsoever.

Is it a good town strategy to press players for things you should know are NAI for that player but sound scummy in general?

Is it a good mafia strategy?

It is a terrible town strategy to give people a break for anything less than a clear indication of civilianhood, even if just subjectively clear. "You should be reading me as null" is not a gift you will ever receive from me.

It’s also terrible town strategy to tunnel on me for doing shit I do regardless of alignment. You’d think after AssClass, you’d know better.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Who wants to lynch Audrey?

How about a lynch that might actually give us information

Seriously, since when has an inactive lynch ever benefited town

@leetic is defending me because she knows that I am a townie

Hi Audrey!

What does everyone think of this post? I think it's her most easily-assessed content one way or the other. My present inclination is that it looks positive. I'm not sure Audrey would be so eager to attack someone defending her in her very first game if she was a baddie.

another word for mafia and I am goin to school now btw bye

I'm curious what you learned.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Now, meta reads have value and should be acknowledged.

"This is how ____ looks as a civilian" is a valid read.

"This is how ____ looks as a mafioso" is a valid read.

"This is how ____ looks both as a mafioso and as a civilian" is meaningless.

Then quit going “This is how Jack looks as town and mafia. Therefore he is mafia.”

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"But that's how I play!!!" is a terrible defense and means nothing to me whatsoever.

Is it a good town strategy to press players for things you should know are NAI for that player but sound scummy in general?

Is it a good mafia strategy?

It is a terrible town strategy to give people a break for anything less than a clear indication of civilianhood, even if just subjectively clear. "You should be reading me as null" is not a gift you will ever receive from me.

It’s also terrible town strategy to tunnel on me for doing shit I do regardless of alignment. You’d think after AssClass, you’d know better.

If your deliberate effort is to be viewed as null, then this will happen in every game. I don't do null. It does not exist in my brain. I have destroyed every last seedling of null across all of my Mafia acres and salted the fields.

And you don't do all this shit regardless of alignment anyway. That's bull crap. You're a dynamic character with an immense variance in your capacity to combine words into sentences and sentences into Mafia posts. I have told you exactly what I don't like. Dismissing it as "you shouldn't care about this because I am Jackofhearts2005" is nonsense.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Well that didn't work.

I don't want to lynch Audrey. I was wondering if somebody would jump on it.

There's a wolf in Luna/speed/reywas prove me wrong

Why those three?

C'mon dog

C’mon what? You barely talk about Speed and Luna. They’re voting for the same player ie nobody. Rey and Speed have similar reads but Luna doesn’t.

I’m struggling to see the connection.

GTH reads my dude

So you’re just doing the gth excercise late?

Do you have anything additional to say about them?

[Jackofhearts2005]

"But that's how I play!!!" is a terrible defense and means nothing to me whatsoever.

Is it a good town strategy to press players for things you should know are NAI for that player but sound scummy in general?

Is it a good mafia strategy?

It is a terrible town strategy to give people a break for anything less than a clear indication of civilianhood, even if just subjectively clear. "You should be reading me as null" is not a gift you will ever receive from me.

It’s also terrible town strategy to tunnel on me for doing shit I do regardless of alignment. You’d think after AssClass, you’d know better.

If your deliberate effort is to be viewed as null, then this will happen in every game. I don't do null. It does not exist in my brain. I have destroyed every last seedling of null across all of my Mafia acres and salted the fields.

And you don't do all this shit regardless of alignment anyway. That's bull crap. You're a dynamic character with an immense variance in your capacity to combine words into sentences and sentences into Mafia posts. I have told you exactly what I don't like. Dismissing it as "you shouldn't care about this because I am Jackofhearts2005" is nonsense.

You should care. You should also like read me correctly. Also, I should stop responding to you cause then you respond to me and so on and then my iso is 70% defending myself against your dart throws and then I’m scummy for that.

Your read is wrong. I’m done defending against it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Your read is wrong. I’m done defending against it.

Good. Do your thing.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Why is nova voting me? With no explanation no less. Uncool man.
Sloonei isn't acting like his usual self. Typically he has mile long posts.

You're putting me on the spot here.

It stroke me as weirdly succinct on first read, and I compared it to some of her entry posts in previous games. I have no data on baddie Sabie, however her Civilian self usually starts the game with some chatter. She feels comfortable, and appears easy going.

She comes offcold here, or timid I'd say. Right to the point. I don't care much as well for the general compliment, and the addition of an emoji. Probably an attempt at appearing more friendly.

Him and nova are lovers apparently or teammates

Can't we be just two townies trying to solve the game?

I mean we don't even share the same read on you, I don't know why you keep throwing shade our way and grouping us together as an evil plotting duo.

Haha you guys trying to accuse me because I said hi its gonna be a good group? I didn't have any chatter because no one was on to chat with when I was here. My accusation is nova and Jay must be teammates trying to stir the pot together and get all the suspicions off of them.

I'd like to come back to this. When, and what did Jay accuse you of? He simply asked me to expand my thoughts on you. He has you as green in his rainbow list.

Also, what do you mean by "get all the suspicions off of them"? Has there been any suspicion on any of us to begin with at that time?

Do you actually believe that we are scum teammates?

I personally just mislynched Sabie for doing this.

Can you elaborate on this?

[novaselinenever]

Who wants to lynch Audrey?

How about a lynch that might actually give us information

Seriously, since when has an inactive lynch ever benefited town

@leetic is defending me because she knows that I am a townie

Hi Audrey!

What does everyone think of this post? I think it's her most easily-assessed content one way or the other. My present inclination is that it looks positive. I'm not sure Audrey would be so eager to attack someone defending her in her very first game if she was a baddie.

I like it. Leetic's one not so much.

He's once again using arbitrary value to something pretty vague "information". I don't necessarily disagree with him that lynching players for for the sole reason that they're inactive is bad and doesn't get town anywhere, however he's being too fatalistic which gives off a disingenuous tone. First, information from a lynch isn't just drawn from the lynchee (is that a word? lol) posts but from the different wagons and votes dynamic as well that lead to the lynch itself. Second, who's to say she wouldn't show up (we still had 24 hours), defend herself and/or contribute which will lead to more "information".

He's trying to give off an engaged/serious vibe that reads fake to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My estimation of Sloondawg's alignment is currently going south for the winter.

Why?

[novaselinenever]

So I think I have some kind of flu like viral infection thing so pardon my poor playing. I'm not very okay. I'm sorry all.

It's all right. Hope you feel better soon.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Haha you guys trying to accuse me because I said hi its gonna be a good group? I didn't have any chatter because no one was on to chat with when I was here. My accusation is nova and Jay must be teammates trying to stir the pot together and get all the suspicions off of them.

Nevermind Jay and Nova. Seems like they are strong-arming everyone at the door with their check-in posts. It's simply a power show.

What does this "power show" indicate to you about rey and I?

I didn't mention rey. It just makes you and Nova look like you're excited for the game, and don't mind punching reads out of people's check-in posts. I like the enthusiasm, but your methods look a bit harsh.

This... is actually interesting. Rey for Nova slip. I'm intrigued.

The Grand Unified Theory of Mafia (GUT M) is whacke because a mafia member will tout any suspicion that might remotely smell viable in an early game situation when finding themself in an environment which is already otherwise filled with kooky postulations. One must look the part.

Bob from the colonies over here is not producing an original idea, but he is running with an independent suspicion of the player most invulnerable to suspicion. No harm can come of it and he appears bold and open-minded for floating it. I will maintain a healthy skepticism.

[VOTE: Jack O’Farts] aubergine

In solidarity with my brother Bob from the colonies.

These posts back to back with no previous mention of me are questionable. Sloonei’s 2nd and 3rd posts with content.

[Sloonei]

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] In the Sockys game I argued that sabie was mafia at lylo in part because she’d responded to all accusations with some form of “I don’t know why people are accusing me.” We mislynched her and speedchuck hopscotched away with a dirty scum win.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I like it. Leetic's one not so much.

He's once again using arbitrary value to something pretty vague "information". I don't necessarily disagree with him that lynching players for for the sole reason that they're inactive is bad and doesn't get town anywhere, however he's being too fatalistic which gives off a disingenuous tone. First, information from a lynch isn't just drawn from the lynchee (is that a word? lol) posts but from the different wagons and votes dynamic as well that lead to the lynch itself. Second, who's to say she wouldn't show up (we still had 24 hours), defend herself and/or contribute which will lead to more "information".

He's trying to give off an engaged/serious vibe that reads fake to me.

I'll allow [mention]leetic[/mention] to respond before I butt in.

[Sloonei]

Haha you guys trying to accuse me because I said hi its gonna be a good group? I didn't have any chatter because no one was on to chat with when I was here. My accusation is nova and Jay must be teammates trying to stir the pot together and get all the suspicions off of them.

Nevermind Jay and Nova. Seems like they are strong-arming everyone at the door with their check-in posts. It's simply a power show.

What does this "power show" indicate to you about rey and I?

I didn't mention rey. It just makes you and Nova look like you're excited for the game, and don't mind punching reads out of people's check-in posts. I like the enthusiasm, but your methods look a bit harsh.

This... is actually interesting. Rey for Nova slip. I'm intrigued.

The Grand Unified Theory of Mafia (GUT M) is whacke because a mafia member will tout any suspicion that might remotely smell viable in an early game situation when finding themself in an environment which is already otherwise filled with kooky postulations. One must look the part.

Bob from the colonies over here is not producing an original idea, but he is running with an independent suspicion of the player most invulnerable to suspicion. No harm can come of it and he appears bold and open-minded for floating it. I will maintain a healthy skepticism.

[VOTE: Jack O’Farts] aubergine

In solidarity with my brother Bob from the colonies.

These posts back to back with no previous mention of me are questionable. Sloonei’s 2nd and 3rd posts with content.

Your second sentence answers the question raised in the first.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jackofhearts2005 In the Sockys game I argued that sabie was mafia at lylo in part because she’d responded to all accusations with some form of “I don’t know why people are accusing me.” We mislynched her and speedchuck hopscotched away with a dirty scum win.

Lol didn’t ya’ll know Speedchuck is always mafia?

[Sloonei]

Jackofhearts2005 In the Sockys game I argued that sabie was mafia at lylo in part because she’d responded to all accusations with some form of “I don’t know why people are accusing me.” We mislynched her and speedchuck hopscotched away with a dirty scum win.

Lol didn’t ya’ll know Speedchuck is always mafia?

Sabie did

[Jackofhearts2005]

B

Dig in!

I already did. Something smelled fishy when I was catching up. I sensed a lot of energy moving in one direction coming from a lot of folks, but then Jack’s posts did not seem to be in sync with that energy. He seemed to be moving against it.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

The fuck are you talking about? Naysaying?

[mention]Sloonei[/mention]

[Sloonei]

B

Dig in!

I already did. Something smelled fishy when I was catching up. I sensed a lot of energy moving in one direction coming from a lot of folks, but then Jack’s posts did not seem to be in sync with that energy. He seemed to be moving against it.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

The fuck are you talking about? Naysaying?

@Sloonei

Look at my next post