Inception [END]

[Evenstar]

My three biggest suspects are voting me.

It's cute. They won't ever lynch me. Why try?

IDK, maybe because we think you're scum?

And what will you do when you discover I am not? Hmm?

Shrug at the mistaken lynch and bask in the much less toxic air seems like a good start.

I am missing something here for sure.

Here is what Pawn had to say about me lately:

pawn lelouch

is epignosis being fair to me right now?

He is heavily overemphasizing the lack of a vote on D1. Yeah, it wasn't ideal that you didn't put one on Drago to clinch it but unvoting 112 is still a push towards that, and notably one you had been hinting at for a damn good while. I even called you out on it when you said "completely unexpected betrayal" with everyone expected it, since you had been doing blatant hinting.

And even with that initial waver, everything else within the game has been pure town you. Since the beginning of D1.

And yeah, Epi hasn't seen a fair bit of your playstyle for some context, but it's not a overall scummy set of posts even without that. So I do think that the overemphasis that he's been placing is a fair bit too much.

And while I'm enjoying the game I do consider it bastard and somewhat disorienting. I agree with you on that and think Epi not considering it as such is a case of just trying to defend his friends over the truth. Since if this isn't considered bastard over here, I do hate to see what would be considered as such.

Pawn, you seem to have an affinity for iaafr. Can you elaborate?

An affinity in terms of having a read that I believe is correct or personality + style?

You seem to like what he's doing. Any outside commentary from someone I even remotely trust would be coveted.

For the most part since early D1 I've honestly found him to be largely acting in a town manner and I generally like the direction that he has pushed in terms of reads. And yes, he did the unvote rather than vote but that doesn't change that he's been fairly solid everywhere else this game.

Especially when you consider the fact that the fact that he removed the 112 vote still helped with Drago and is something that he had to have known would be scummy looking as either alignment due to timing. And full disclosure that is the type of play I have done before, and while it's risky it is something that can work in terms of trying to guarantee a life extension. So I can see the thought process and the weird half measure doesn't feel like scum in that instance, since he would have committed to a hard stance and not ended it on the no lynch.

And while I think iaafr is overreacting in terms of annoyance from your questions I can see how his frustration comes from the setup and is being exacerbated, where the way he is reacting isn't necessarily productive, but feels like town iaafr from what I've observed in other games and spec.

@Pawn Lelouch I'd like to hear your latest thoughts on Iaafr

Epi's put forwards the argument that rabbit potentially being the doublevoter actually makes them look worse, not better

Should I be scumreading Epi or Rabbit more for this? 'cause right now I'm reading that as reflecting quite badly on Epi

I do think my Rabbit read should be a little less secure given that he hasn't actually got a good reason to be not voting D1 even if he is the doublevoter, but IMO Epi's argument here boils down to "If they're mechanically confirmed town that just makes them look worse", which is absolutely garbage.

Well, iaafr's stated reasoning of survival still holds up and is arguably even more valuable considering the value of one late game. There is still the issue of not voting when he could have clinched it but with his hints of pulling off of 112, Drago was pretty much publicly in the lead so there was still some push for that. So I feel solid on iaafr.

And like, I can see the angle that Epi is pushing for here, it's just one that I disagree with when factoring in the survival stance. So it's a small ding.

iaafr, Pawn Lelouch
help me out here, what am I doing wrong
this PoE sucks but I can't seem to see the game a different way

Honestly I agree with the core of it. Since it seems too damn simple but I can't come up with anything else.

I'm never going after you or iaafr. So 6 slots and I am ultimately 3 tiering this since I don't think anyone else here is on the same level of cleared as you two.

Epi, Jack, Sprityo, Dom, Radishes, Colin.

So while Epi has some emotions in terms of annoyance it's not that much and frankly isn't a town tell. Most people would be annoyed in that scenario so it is hard NAI. Then the rabbit push is very eh. I'm honestly unsure if I want him in bottom or middle still, but I guess I'll drop him in for now.

I can agree that Jack has looked better in regards to trying to remove out the current POE and actually participating. Most of them are kinda fluffy but I like his approach to Radishes and there was decent insight when he commented on Michelle.

Dom just has baseless aggression and that's it.

Radishes is weird for me. He has similar thought processes but timings and amount of work make it possible that he's trying to pocket me. So there's sus there but I'm not hitting him today imo.

Colin has some flailing but again, there's nothing actually clearing here. It's enough that he isn't the option today but that's it.

Maybe it's just me but there wasn't anything supremely clearing about the emotional outburst. I get why you're reading him town off it, it could be enough to bump if there was more but he still doesn't have the best look in thread. At the very least since we need 3 I don't see enough to move him to the middle.

{Jack, Radishes, Colin}
{Epi, Dom, Sprityo}

@Pawn Lelouch you too, uptrends downtrends?

is it still epi dom sprityo for you?

Pretty much. Jack and Radishes are locked pretty heavily in the center for me. Same with Dom at the bottom. Basically nothing has given me reason to change their overall positions since all three have played into what I've already viewed of them.

Epi has actually trended downward because of post #909, where he says I'm bad for making posts that focus on maintaining the status quo. Which if you consider having 3 of 9 slots locked down, and 2 more (MR + Dom) where I've been basically in the same view of them for multiple phases? Then I'll cop to liking the status quo and thinking it's pro town here.

Since remember, the status quo is not inherently bad, what matters is if the status quo is one that benefits town or not. And I think this is a case of one and let me explain.

So Nook is a weird kill. He's a good player but there are others of his caliber here and he notably was one of the less engaged players. So why was he targeted? He's not the player I would have gone for in a doc dodge. I thought about it and the main thing I can consider as viable is that his main scum reads were Eva and myself. And that wouldn't be enough for me to really make sense of it except Eva and I were part of a burgeoning town core.

So Nook specifically seems like an attempt to sow suspicion and break it apart to keep town disorganized, which only increases my Eva lock town rating. And them wanting to break this up is important since it means scum does not like the status quo at the end of D2 where people were coming together and finding each other.

So I think we had a pretty solid POE outline going on and I just dislike how Epi has looked at the same set of events and gotten the exact opposite view from them.

And Sprit is a case where I like individual posts but when I look at the ISO as a whole it just feels bleh, especially with the amount of posts situated there. Still is primarily a case of I don't feel like dropping Colin to the bottom is right so Sprit is the one who has to fit in.

i actually never paid attention to nooks reads that much last phase lol

so i cant corroborate if what pawn is saying is accurate

and uh isnt that like level 2 logic

isnt level 1 logic pointing at nook was possibly nk'd cuz he was correctly sussing you?

I guess but I don't see the need for me to do so in that position. You and Eva are in a solid TR of me at the moment so I keep that around, especially when being the main doctor targets. Low posters are kept around for easy control around.

So I'd be looking at a kill screen of Nook, Epi, or MR. Just based on engagement I kill Epi or MR everytime over Nook. Nook scum reading me doesn't worry me. I'd rather kill someone who has a nebulous TR or null of me and some thread control vs a person who is SRing me without thread control.

but i mean yeah your logics a bit weird

wouldnt keeping him alive to keep sussing the towncore sow suspicion on its own?

why would scum assume people would even remember nooks reads

Yes, but Nook was relatively low impact in the thread so he probably wouldn't make much progress and might even be convinced to change his mind. Better to go for the guarantee rather than a gamble.

Because it's good town play to look back at those who died to try and divine the intent as to why they died. Since there is always a discernible reason behind a scum nightkill. The trick is actually figuring it out. Plus remembering the reads of one of 14 other players is far easier than that of 29 other players. Especially since scum could potentially just point it out themselves in thread as a reason why Nook could have been a silencing kill. So there's a fair chance that town would easily remember the reads or scum would just state it themselves.

I'm basically assuming that Epi is scum based off this as I read into the kill more and more. If I'm right this is a kill that came at it from a methodical view, which fits my mental image of Epi's style and even is something he has stated in previous days.

... How on earth do you have this all to hand? Are your "notes" that extensive?

[Epignosis]

They are not notes. They are things I have copied and pasted from the thread. What's so hard about that to grasp?

[Epignosis]

It takes me literally twelve seconds to copy and paste something down.

[Evenstar]

@Master Radishes
@sprityo
@Evenstar

Were ya’ll alone in limbo yesterday? And if so, what happened? And if not, same question.

Yeah. Open votes, no maj. We did our backs and forths, but Sprit only popped in last few minutes, voted me, I voted Eva because obviously, and Eva switched from voting Sprit to me at :00.

It was fun and dramatic.

People need to believe me on her now, though.

congratulations

you got me

the masterful voteswapping wolf

this :00 argument is terrible, I barely got my vote in at all which would've resulted in a complete fucking rand

are you really saying that I cut it that close,

risking a 1/3 chance of outright suiciding,

because, i dunno, I thought sprityo would pull some kind of bullshit ninja move?

my squeaking in just under the wire is entirely down to the fact that sprityo showed up late and decided to hold off from voting until literally 00:59 or something

Again, the problem with this defense is that there wasn't an actual lynch on the line and you knew that (right?)

Catching up right now. Going through from the beginning of day 2 and today simultaneously. All I will say is that I want the head of the people behind the Spiny lynch.

Come at me.

wait,

you lynched spiny?

Yes. :P

[VOTE: hyena] aubergine

I am informed there is a vig

....wat

Hyena is town in like 98% of universes here

Catching up right now. Going through from the beginning of day 2 and today simultaneously. All I will say is that I want the head of the people behind the Spiny lynch.

it is so fucking good to see you again. help me dunk radishes please.

So how the fuck did iaafr get lynched? In what world does that happen?

I have no clue what you're talking about but I very very much want to murder Hyena and Nutella right now.

ok, if you were actually spiny's mason partner, then I guess you're not scum. but maybe you weren't. Either way, you're behaving really weird about this. Some of us didn't have the confidence in that slot that you apparently did. We lynched boo because we didn't have much of a better choice and he didn't look good on d2 (and because I had some reasons to suspect spiny from d1). It was not a good lynch and it wasn't a confident push by anyone in particular. I would prefer not to die for it lol.

Catching up right now. Going through from the beginning of day 2 and today simultaneously. All I will say is that I want the head of the people behind the Spiny lynch.

it is so fucking good to see you again. help me dunk radishes please.

So how the fuck did iaafr get lynched? In what world does that happen?

what

*checks polls*

Wait, you went directly to f3. Right, that explains it a lot better. Apparently iaafr got lynched in level 3 somehow and brought to the top via that method rather than just the normal rejoin.

k good to know

I thought I read that he had gotten lynched on one of the levels but I guess I'm being crazy then?

He did not show up here unless you guys lynched him last day phase, but you wouldn't know who was lynched last day phase.

Pawn, I hate to belabor a detail like this but if you weren't told in this thread that iaafr was lynched where did you find that out?

I thought someone had said it in here. Posting + reading while also listening to a friend's cabaret is a bad idea apparently for getting things done right. News at 11.

quick search says it was Jack, you aren't hallucinating

Great, thanks Eva.

wait and then how would jack have known?


at top of p121 currently just posting these now

Jack would've known 'cause he was in the right layer?

Also, are you honestly suggesting that the scum didn't really care about winning that F3?

Hyena is on both the Vanity and Spiny wagons along with you, so forgive me if I'm not easily convinced you two are both town.

[Epignosis]

Evenstar, if you are a civilian, then I need you to find Dragomir's partners.

If you are not, fine. I will vote for you.

[Evenstar]

It takes me literally twelve seconds to copy and paste something down.

Why on earth have you copied and pasted what looks like Pawn's entire D3 case of you into your notes? Of what use did you expect it to be?

[Epignosis]

You're talking about layers like they matter. Talk about Dragomir's team.

[nutella]

lol, Eva, why are you shitting on Epi's wall of reads? I thought they were pretty cool. I wish I had seen them sooner. I like Epi a whole lot more today than I did D1. <3

because it's the same wall of reads he's been posting every day since literally the start of D2, and I am salty that this has been good enough to let him pass for town for this entire time

I am town, Pawn is town, Rabbit is town, Epi is scum, Radishes is scum.

You're upset because I've been repeating things about Dragomir that the vast majority of people have not had a chance to hear?

And I'm bad for that?

You are not a civilian. And if you are, you are one who needs to rethink her strategy.

why would anyone who isn't a wolf be namedropping dragomir this far into the game? who even remembers d1 at this point?

.....literally what.

I don't know what game you're playing but I'm playing mafia. and when there is one flipped wolf, we fucking use that information.

[Evenstar]

Evenstar, if you are a civilian, then I need you to find Dragomir's partners.

If you are not, fine. I will vote for you.

Respectfully, go take a long walk off a short pier.

[Epignosis]

It takes me literally twelve seconds to copy and paste something down.

Why on earth have you copied and pasted what looks like Pawn's entire D3 case of you into your notes? Of what use did you expect it to be?

Why on earth won't you find mafia?

[Epignosis]

Evenstar, if you are a civilian, then I need you to find Dragomir's partners.

If you are not, fine. I will vote for you.

Respectfully, go take a long walk off a short pier.

I don't need you.

My vote stays.

[Evenstar]

You're talking about layers like they matter. Talk about Dragomir's team.

If you don't think layers matter then you are not playing the same game I am.

[Evenstar]

It takes me literally twelve seconds to copy and paste something down.

Why on earth have you copied and pasted what looks like Pawn's entire D3 case of you into your notes? Of what use did you expect it to be?

Why on earth won't you find mafia?

Why on earth do you think I'm obligated to search where you want me to?

[Epignosis]

You're talking about layers like they matter. Talk about Dragomir's team.

If you don't think layers matter then you are not playing the same game I am.

[Epignosis]

Evenstar is the right lynch. Move on.

[Epignosis]

It takes me literally twelve seconds to copy and paste something down.

Why on earth have you copied and pasted what looks like Pawn's entire D3 case of you into your notes? Of what use did you expect it to be?

Why on earth won't you find mafia?

Why on earth do you think I'm obligated to search where you want me to?

You're not obligated to do anything at all.

Unfortunately, you won't do shit on your own accord. Therefore, you are going to be lynched.

[Pawn Lelouch]

Yeah, I'm just gonna head out of this game for the night. Will be back tomorrow but my hydra game is more important than giving into my urge to be toxic and I need to cool off.

[MacDougall]

Why are you people getting so huffy

[Epignosis]

Why are you people getting so huffy

It's how they get their way. Exhibit outrage = profit.

[Epignosis]

If anyone rational would like to talk about things, I'm here for a short while.

[Epignosis]

I'm a civilian and I have three votes because I'm not nice. Imagine that.

[Evenstar]

You're talking about layers like they matter. Talk about Dragomir's team.

If you don't think layers matter then you are not playing the same game I am.

... have you really done no layer-based analysis at all?

[Epignosis]

You're talking about layers like they matter. Talk about Dragomir's team.

If you don't think layers matter then you are not playing the same game I am.

... have you really done no layer-based analysis at all?

More than I'm allowed to say.

[Epignosis]

Evenstar, if you are truly a civilian, then start talking about who is Dragomir's associates.

Otherwise, you're wasting my time.

[Evenstar]

You're talking about layers like they matter. Talk about Dragomir's team.

If you don't think layers matter then you are not playing the same game I am.

... have you really done no layer-based analysis at all?

More than I'm allowed to say.

Thank you for scumclaiming.

[nutella]

I will vote to ensure one of my suspects dies. No tie bullshit.

same. And I'm fully on board with a 112 lynch as well, maybe even more so than Eva if only because of the spiny shit

[Epignosis]

You're talking about layers like they matter. Talk about Dragomir's team.

If you don't think layers matter then you are not playing the same game I am.

... have you really done no layer-based analysis at all?

More than I'm allowed to say.

Thank you for scumclaiming.

I was forbidden by the host from talking about it.

Good luck finding favor around here with your humility.

[Epignosis]

Evenstar still isn't finding mafia. She's hounding me. Lynch her.

[nutella]

My three biggest suspects are voting me.

It's cute. They won't ever lynch me. Why try?

IDK, maybe because we think you're scum?

And what will you do when you discover I am not? Hmm?

Shrug at the mistaken lynch and bask in the much less toxic air seems like a good start.

This is the exact reaction I would have if we lynched Eva and she flipped town.

Maybe it's just culture clash here but from where I stand, Epi is not being toxic. Eva is.

[Pawn Lelouch]

Yeah, Evenstar isn't interested in finding mafia. She's interested in stirring up trouble.

Lynch her.

As you told me on D3, you are welcome to try.

Shower and bed at this point.

Pawn Lelouch, I would encourage you to do sort-by-maximum-dream-depth on the first votal if you haven't already: I found it very interesting and I would appreciate you checking my work. (Also, I don't want to have to redo all the damn color tags.)

Posting this in a separate post to save myself the effort tomorrow.

1: Hyena, Nutella, Elephant, Benson, boo, Benson, DFaraday, Vanity, Creature, TL, juliets, Elephant, Long Con Drago (Lynched), TSP + Texas (NK'd)

2: Mac, LLD, Quin, Michelle, 112 Nova (Lynched), Nook (NK'd)

3: iaafr, Jack, Dom, Epi Colin (Lynched), Pawn (NK'd)

4: ES, Radish, Sprit

[nutella]

Jack would've known 'cause he was in the right layer?

Also, are you honestly suggesting that the scum didn't really care about winning that F3?

Hyena is on both the Vanity and Spiny wagons along with you, so forgive me if I'm not easily convinced you two are both town.

But like even the people in the right layer had secret votes and wouldn't know for sure right??

No but the stakes were obviously different than a regular lynch. You said something about outright suicide when it was decidedly not that.

That's not a convincing reason. It's quite likely for two townies to vote for mislynches together twice. I am willing to reconsider my town read of Hyena in a general sense, but that's not a priority when I believe there are better candidates for my scrutiny at the moment.

[nutella]

Evenstar, if you are a civilian, then I need you to find Dragomir's partners.

If you are not, fine. I will vote for you.

Respectfully, go take a long walk off a short pier.

Don't say shit like that in a game. Or ever.

[Pawn Lelouch]

Evenstar, if you are a civilian, then I need you to find Dragomir's partners.

If you are not, fine. I will vote for you.

Respectfully, go take a long walk off a short pier.

Don't say shit like that in a game. Or ever.

This I will agree with.

[Evenstar]

You're talking about layers like they matter. Talk about Dragomir's team.

If you don't think layers matter then you are not playing the same game I am.

... have you really done no layer-based analysis at all?

More than I'm allowed to say.

Thank you for scumclaiming.

I was forbidden by the host from talking about it.

Good luck finding favor around here with your humility.

I cannot think of any role that would have access between layers - the power you are clearly softing and have been for a while - other than a mafioso.

I recognize you probably cannot productively engage with this accusation given the frankly bizarre and confining anti-claim rules here, but nonetheless this is a major reason for my scumread of you.

I am not concerned with finding favor: I am concerned with finding scum. I feel that your derisive and dismissive treatment of everyone who scumreads you is a defensive strategy you are deliberately employing to increase the social cost of trying to lynch you and thereby encourage doubt. I believe that this strategy also harms the enjoyment and morale of those around you, thereby discouraging them from engaging productively with the game. This game is already an unusually high-stress environment due to its highly eccentric mechanics that hide vital information from the players, and so maintaining Town morale should be a high priority. You are visibly failing to prioritize this goal in favour of yelling at players who are not scumhunting in a way you approve of. That makes you more likely to be scum.

I did not intend to start writing a case on you, here; I intended to go to bed. This seems like a logical breakpoint as it explains why being "not nice" makes you scum. I still need to address multiple other reasons why I believe you are scum - some quite major - but for the sake of my own stress levels I'm going to stop here. If you are town, I would encourage you to think carefully about how your play makes everyone you accuse believe you to be scum.

Goodnight.

[nutella]

[mention]Pawn Lelouch[/mention] So you're reasonably sure Colin was lynched and you were NKed?

I was excited to play with Colin again since it's been a while but apparently he hasn't participated much and was on people's lists for being a low poster?

Hmmm if that's the case I might actually believe you can be town here.

And that makes me feel all the better about the Eva vote (see: what radish said about her NKing you and nanook)

[nutella]

If you don't think layers matter then you are not playing the same game I am.

... have you really done no layer-based analysis at all?

More than I'm allowed to say.

Thank you for scumclaiming.

I was forbidden by the host from talking about it.

Good luck finding favor around here with your humility.

I cannot think of any role that would have access between layers - the power you are clearly softing and have been for a while - other than a mafioso.

I recognize you probably cannot productively engage with this accusation given the frankly bizarre and confining anti-claim rules here, but nonetheless this is a major reason for my scumread of you.

I am not concerned with finding favor: I am concerned with finding scum. I feel that your derisive and dismissive treatment of everyone who scumreads you is a defensive strategy you are deliberately employing to increase the social cost of trying to lynch you and thereby encourage doubt. I believe that this strategy also harms the enjoyment and morale of those around you, thereby discouraging them from engaging productively with the game. This game is already an unusually high-stress environment due to its highly eccentric mechanics that hide vital information from the players, and so maintaining Town morale should be a high priority. You are visibly failing to prioritize this goal in favour of yelling at players who are not scumhunting in a way you approve of. That makes you more likely to be scum.

I did not intend to start writing a case on you, here; I intended to go to bed. This seems like a logical breakpoint as it explains why being "not nice" makes you scum. I still need to address multiple other reasons why I believe you are scum - some quite major - but for the sake of my own stress levels I'm going to stop here. If you are town, I would encourage you to think carefully about how your play makes everyone you accuse believe you to be scum.

Goodnight.

.......oh shit. Epi is a forum admin. Which means he probably has access to the layers regardless, but the hosts would realize that and he'd be honest about it so it could be that they just incorporated it into his role in the game. If they hadn't made it kosher for him to just read the other threads I believe he wouldn't do it.

But I disagree that that's a scum role, because scum would already have people distributed and get info that way, so it makes total sense for a townie to get that ability.

[nutella]

I actually cannot fathom why you would assume that would be a scum role. Makes way more sense from a balance perspective to have a townie in on the layers, since the scum would presumably already have more knowledge of them.

[Michelle]

10 pages to read, i can do this today.

My mafia reads from previous days Dom, Elephant, probably LLD and I need to read for more.
Town reads Quin, Pawn, probably all others in the last 2 days when we played in 5 except LLD

AMA

[nutella]

Full disclosure, this happened early on D2:

Huh, Epignosis viewing thread?

Uh oh mod privilege abuse (I'm sure it was accidental, epj is very honorable)

(I can't see any other threads but epi is a full admin so likely he can)

Since this happened very shortly after the first split, I assumed Epi was viewing by accident because he had the permissions and that he and the hosts would clear that up and he'd be honest about it and not peek. I just assumed that and moved on. But maybe it is his ability or the hosts incorporated it somehow because of the permissions jankiness. But as I said, it makes zero sense to leap to him being scum because of that, quite the opposite.

[Michelle]

Nutella why the 2 wagons on Epi and Eve, are they confirmed in any way from previous days?

[nutella]

Nutella why the 2 wagons on Epi and Eve, are they confirmed in any way from previous days?

No, there's just a distinct split in the thread rn and people feel very strongly on both sides

[Pawn Lelouch]

@Pawn Lelouch So you're reasonably sure Colin was lynched and you were NKed?

I was excited to play with Colin again since it's been a while but apparently he hasn't participated much and was on people's lists for being a low poster?

Hmmm if that's the case I might actually believe you can be town here.

And that makes me feel all the better about the Eva vote (see: what radish said about her NKing you and nanook)

Considering no one had an actual reason to TR him? When quite literally the best anyone could get on him was that he seemed to out of it to be very agenday with his like 10 1 line posts? With iiafr/Eva/I all basically forming a core, where if it came down to F3 with one of them and another player it was obvious how I would choose?

Yeah, would have been pretty damn hard for me to be the lynchee there. Full disclosure I hadn't voted up Colin that day, I was in my bottom 3 there, but even so I think I can be fairly sure of that.

[Michelle]

My three biggest suspects are voting me.

It's cute. They won't ever lynch me. Why try?

IDK, maybe because we think you're scum?

And what will you do when you discover I am not? Hmm?

Shrug at the mistaken lynch and bask in the much less toxic air seems like a good start.

This is the exact reaction I would have if we lynched Eva and she flipped town.

Maybe it's just culture clash here but from where I stand, Epi is not being toxic. Eva is.

Eva wanted to kill me as villager in a mash. we both were villas and wrong about each other.

She is not a good lynch, this is before reading all, and my impression after staying with her in the dream level

Ngl I will read only the current day, for more I may skimm or just Iso people

[Michelle]

[mention]Evenstar[/mention] because you said you didn't play with me I was Chocolate in Drakengard mash, I didn't want to say it in the other day. That and the last anon mash will give you an idea about my meta better and explains the meta I have for you

[Evenstar]

Evenstar, if you are a civilian, then I need you to find Dragomir's partners.

If you are not, fine. I will vote for you.

Respectfully, go take a long walk off a short pier.

Don't say shit like that in a game. Or ever.

This I will agree with.

I was attempting to tell Epignosis to stop insisting on this and disengage because it is clearly not being productive. The first words that came to mind were, quite frankly, "fuck off." I struck that as obviously way too hostile, grabbed an idiom that I happened to have on hand, and then added "respectfully" in an attempt to communicate that I don't think Epi is a bad person or a bad player, I just think he's being deliberately abrasive in a way that I can't productively engage with right now.

In retrospect, what I should've done was step away from the game completely and get some sleep. (As I currently intend to do.) Instead, my attempt to be less hostile... makes my response sound more like "fuck off and die", if I'm being honest. The unnecessary formalism just sounds sarcastic, at best.

... I really need to get better control over this.

I'm sorry, for what it's worth.

Goodnight. For real this time.

[Michelle]

Nutella why the 2 wagons on Epi and Eve, are they confirmed in any way from previous days?

No, there's just a distinct split in the thread rn and people feel very strongly on both sides

If the thread is that splitted between the 2 can we look at everyone and see if we have a better lynch?

[Evenstar]

... have you really done no layer-based analysis at all?

More than I'm allowed to say.

Thank you for scumclaiming.

I was forbidden by the host from talking about it.

Good luck finding favor around here with your humility.

I cannot think of any role that would have access between layers - the power you are clearly softing and have been for a while - other than a mafioso.

I recognize you probably cannot productively engage with this accusation given the frankly bizarre and confining anti-claim rules here, but nonetheless this is a major reason for my scumread of you.

I am not concerned with finding favor: I am concerned with finding scum. I feel that your derisive and dismissive treatment of everyone who scumreads you is a defensive strategy you are deliberately employing to increase the social cost of trying to lynch you and thereby encourage doubt. I believe that this strategy also harms the enjoyment and morale of those around you, thereby discouraging them from engaging productively with the game. This game is already an unusually high-stress environment due to its highly eccentric mechanics that hide vital information from the players, and so maintaining Town morale should be a high priority. You are visibly failing to prioritize this goal in favour of yelling at players who are not scumhunting in a way you approve of. That makes you more likely to be scum.

I did not intend to start writing a case on you, here; I intended to go to bed. This seems like a logical breakpoint as it explains why being "not nice" makes you scum. I still need to address multiple other reasons why I believe you are scum - some quite major - but for the sake of my own stress levels I'm going to stop here. If you are town, I would encourage you to think carefully about how your play makes everyone you accuse believe you to be scum.

Goodnight.

.......oh shit. Epi is a forum admin. Which means he probably has access to the layers regardless, but the hosts would realize that and he'd be honest about it so it could be that they just incorporated it into his role in the game. If they hadn't made it kosher for him to just read the other threads I believe he wouldn't do it.

But I disagree that that's a scum role, because scum would already have people distributed and get info that way, so it makes total sense for a townie to get that ability.

I think he is a scum softing the fact he's in scumchat and therefore can get his mafia buddies to fetch him stuff from other levels as a "power".

[nutella]

Nutella why the 2 wagons on Epi and Eve, are they confirmed in any way from previous days?

No, there's just a distinct split in the thread rn and people feel very strongly on both sides

If the thread is that splitted between the 2 can we look at everyone and see if we have a better lynch?

How do you feel about 112?

[nutella]

... have you really done no layer-based analysis at all?

More than I'm allowed to say.

Thank you for scumclaiming.

I was forbidden by the host from talking about it.

Good luck finding favor around here with your humility.

I cannot think of any role that would have access between layers - the power you are clearly softing and have been for a while - other than a mafioso.

I recognize you probably cannot productively engage with this accusation given the frankly bizarre and confining anti-claim rules here, but nonetheless this is a major reason for my scumread of you.

I am not concerned with finding favor: I am concerned with finding scum. I feel that your derisive and dismissive treatment of everyone who scumreads you is a defensive strategy you are deliberately employing to increase the social cost of trying to lynch you and thereby encourage doubt. I believe that this strategy also harms the enjoyment and morale of those around you, thereby discouraging them from engaging productively with the game. This game is already an unusually high-stress environment due to its highly eccentric mechanics that hide vital information from the players, and so maintaining Town morale should be a high priority. You are visibly failing to prioritize this goal in favour of yelling at players who are not scumhunting in a way you approve of. That makes you more likely to be scum.

I did not intend to start writing a case on you, here; I intended to go to bed. This seems like a logical breakpoint as it explains why being "not nice" makes you scum. I still need to address multiple other reasons why I believe you are scum - some quite major - but for the sake of my own stress levels I'm going to stop here. If you are town, I would encourage you to think carefully about how your play makes everyone you accuse believe you to be scum.

Goodnight.

.......oh shit. Epi is a forum admin. Which means he probably has access to the layers regardless, but the hosts would realize that and he'd be honest about it so it could be that they just incorporated it into his role in the game. If they hadn't made it kosher for him to just read the other threads I believe he wouldn't do it.

But I disagree that that's a scum role, because scum would already have people distributed and get info that way, so it makes total sense for a townie to get that ability.

I think he is a scum softing the fact he's in scumchat and therefore can get his mafia buddies to fetch him stuff from other levels as a "power".

That makes no sense lmao. Read what I've said, it's occam's razor. He's an admin, he's not allowed to talk about it, it's whatever. He's probably town.

[Pawn Lelouch]

I think he is a scum softing the fact he's in scumchat and therefore can get his mafia buddies to fetch him stuff from other levels as a "power".

Go to bed Eva. While I agree with you on this, posting more in the thread today is ill advised. Just let sleep help you reset for a bit.