Ziggy Stardust Mafia

[nutella]

@nutella what's your read on Tony and long con again?

Fluctuating. When I made that string of posts last night I really thought I had caught LC, but his response still has a tone that I am tempted to believe. I don't know. I still lean town on Tony but he's also in the poe.

I think I currently feel worse about Epi than either of them, oddly enough.

@nutella do you agree the role cop sender has to be town if you are town?

Not totally sure, but probably? Idk why a mafia would send a townie another townie to remove from the poe

Exactly so he's just town from your perspective and you should never ever lynch?

I guess? I don't think I'm comfortable saying that in a 100% black and white way

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Same to @JaggedJimmyJay and @Epignosis for above actually

I've devised a compromise to facilitate my Mimlo "experiment" without just being useless. Stay tuned for answers to your questions and more.

[nutella]

posting a minute before night deadline?

[Epignosis]

I'm sorry.

Was there something required of me right now?

[Epignosis]

I'm finally here. Nobody has anything to say. Wild.

[Epignosis]

Anyone who tries to kill me fails and becomes my lover instead.

XOXOXO bitch.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Jay is open wolfing? That's my current impression.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Nutella also has a huge poe for lylo but I guess that can be shortened somewhat

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Start of day may or may not be delayed by a bit—if it is, actions sent in or changed at 10:01 EDT (~3 hours from now) or later will not be accepted. I apologize for any inconvenience.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

All two-way interactions

Note first that these analyses come embedded with a presupposition -- that Duskfall spoke truth about our arrival to Mimlo. If Duskfall is town, then there must be two mafia remaining. If Duskfall is mafia, there still could be two remaining, but not necessarily.

Duskfall and Epignosis

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I would be amazingly shocked if nanook made a game 9v2 that's way way too townsided

Eh? I don't agree. You prefer 8v3? Mafia wins that about 85% of the time.

Depends on town role power

Long con its not to late to pretend you were meming don't go down this road

Is this the new word for what I call "fucking with people?"

If so, fuck.

It is a synonym!

Epi's tunneling seems to be coming from a town perspective imo

Epi's tunneling seems to be coming from a town perspective imo

What does that mean?

Tunneling is when someone keeps pushing the same person relentlessly not really reconsidering the targets alignment or wanting to switch wagons

I know what tunneling is.

What do you mean "coming from a town perspective"? In what way does it seem like that to you exactly?

I mean I don't think he does this as scum

So it is probably town

or epi give me hammer one of you

If you take me down, DS is going down with me. Is that really what you want?

Two for one ain't a bad deal.

Just got caught up, and I see the lynch ends at 3. Dunya, I know my ISO isn't that meaty. I don't usually get more heavily involved in a game until a lynch or two has gone by.

I don't suspect Epignosis, this looks fine for him. I do think that Duskfall's analysis of Epi could be TMI-related, because I don't think he knows how Epi plays.

How do you think epi plays?

I'll have to read back but currently epi is never lynch for me and Nutella is possibly lynch but I'll get back to that tomorrow no lynch today

Spoiler: show

I would be amazingly shocked if nanook made a game 9v2 that's way way too townsided

Eh? I don't agree. You prefer 8v3? Mafia wins that about 85% of the time.

Long con its not to late to pretend you were meming don't go down this road

Is this the new word for what I call "fucking with people?"

If so, fuck.

DS - Not lynching today (I don't lynch new people Day 1)
Dunya - Evil bitch (wouldn't lynch)
Duskfall - Not lynching today
Jackofhearts2005 - Would lynch but would require convincing
JiwonMeganPark - Would lynch
leetic - Should burn
Long Con - Would lynch but would require convincing
MacDougall - Would lynch because that's just a good time right there
Nutella - Not lynching today
TonyStarkPrime - Not lynching today

[SNIP]

Np I town tell as every alignment

Its a bad role because he said I would get a good role which implies a vig which I didn't get

I don't even have an active

Well we both know line 1 isn't true but moving on

I think it's probably some sort of 8v 2 v 1 scenario or something assuming your role is true

I'm not sure I understand this reaction, but I think it reflects well on Duskfall.

[SNIP]

If there's a vanilla role pm nanook would definitely give it to scum and I have seen ds try this kind of stunt as both alignments so it means nothing to me

This is fair.

I'm still lock town though

Small point in Duskfall's favor here.

[SNIP]

Personally I think dunya has been the most outwardly aggressive in a way that scum could be if they were attempting to power. Not sure if that aligns with their normal meta or not

With no meta on anyone but Dusk really my read at this point before flips is gonna be based off of wagonomics as the day goes on.

Mac needs to put a real vote down. We are past RVS.

The adverbs are real with this one.

While I could give "personally" a pass (personally, I wouldn't ), calling dunya "outwardly aggressive" is a really strange thing to say. What else would she be? Inwardly aggressive?

"in a way that scum could be if they were attempting to power."

There is so much hedging language in there I could build a maze.

DS. was looking for a way in to vote dunya without committing to it.

DS. mentioned Duskfall (whatever) but saw the need to tack on a Mac prod. Noted.

[SNIP]

whys tony town dunya?

I was more at why is Nutella so low?

Swap Jack and Nutella and I am okay with it

I'm not reading into this. It looks like a post to make a post.

[SNIP]

Btw just gonna say now with people speculating over 451 standards, I think if a 9-2 game was ever posted on 451 host would get flamed for it being way way way too townsided. Some of you have played there, I know at least jjj and Nutella and it's possible Nanook rebalanced but 9-2 on 451 is definitely an unfair game, 8-3 feels about even.

8v3 is not even at all.

Yes I'm burning a post to say this.

Sorry nutella if that concerns you.

The theme between these two is mutual trust without a great deal of development or elucidation. They have supported one another and left to the reader to discern why. Much of this content is superfluous, i.e. talk of setup balance blah blah. They would be quite compatible as mafia teammates.

Duskfall and Long Con

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Thought I'd check out the Rules. "I will be using KYLO instead of LYLO (Kill or You LOse), and will refer to the kill via vote as the Elimination." Is this just flavour or is there a game effect I should be aware of?

Nanook's homesite stopped using the l word due to people having insults over it due to racial/historic reasons, mu also is starting to phase it out along with other sites i have seen so l word is probably going to be used a lot less in mafia games in a lot of different sites over the next few months (or specific games at least)

I am trying to stop say it myself but bad habit makes it hard

Long con its not to late to pretend you were meming don't go down this road

Long con its not to late to pretend you were meming don't go down this road

Who is long con?

I don't know how to answer this question have you read the names of the people posting?

Epi's tunneling seems to be coming from a town perspective imo

What does that mean?

Tunneling is when someone keeps pushing the same person relentlessly not really reconsidering the targets alignment or wanting to switch wagons

I know what tunneling is.

What do you mean "coming from a town perspective"? In what way does it seem like that to you exactly?

I mean I don't think he does this as scum

So it is probably town

If you take me down, DS is going down with me. Is that really what you want?

Two for one ain't a bad deal.

Just got caught up, and I see the lynch ends at 3. Dunya, I know my ISO isn't that meaty. I don't usually get more heavily involved in a game until a lynch or two has gone by.

I don't suspect Epignosis, this looks fine for him. I do think that Duskfall's analysis of Epi could be TMI-related, because I don't think he knows how Epi plays.

How do you think epi plays?

Differently than most other players I have ever seen. Belligerent, condescending, with an unwavering resolve that his methods and conclusions are true, even sometimes in the face of logical proof otherwise.

I'm too flames tbh

I don't understand.

I gave a read on a person

You pretty much said I'm correct

I'm now saying cool I'm amazing and correct

@nutella what's your read on Tony and long con again?

Spoiler: show

It is possible there are multiple mafia teams and/or 3p i think, my role power is knowing when it is lylo or mylo. When i die the amount of scum alive is also revealed. Might as well claim that now I'm a pr that can probably die and not matter

Shouldn't your role power refer to KYLO?

Multiple scum teams would surprise me in an 11 player game.

It is possible there are multiple mafia teams and/or 3p i think, my role power is knowing when it is lylo or mylo. When i die the amount of scum alive is also revealed. Might as well claim that now I'm a pr that can probably die and not matter

Shouldn't your role power refer to KYLO?

Multiple scum teams would surprise me in an 11 player game.

To be clear, I don't actually give a shit about the wording from a "reading Dusk" standpoint. I think attempting to read a player based on the wording of his role pm is against the spirit of the game and I have modkilled people for taking it way further than LC is here and I have written dozens of fakeclaims and long paragraphs of rules mumbo jumbo to avoid this thing.

I was more talking about what a good replacement terminology for "lylo" given that we're moving away from using the term "lynch."

I was talking about what the Host said in the rules, not what you said. I don't think it's any sort of angleshoot, when Duskfall comes out and says it like that, it becomes an unavoidable issue and possible scumslip. If it were just something Nanook had mentioned in a post, it wouldn't have caught my attention, but it's literally the first rule.

If you take me down, DS is going down with me. Is that really what you want?

Two for one ain't a bad deal.

Just got caught up, and I see the lynch ends at 3. Dunya, I know my ISO isn't that meaty. I don't usually get more heavily involved in a game until a lynch or two has gone by.

I don't suspect Epignosis, this looks fine for him. I do think that Duskfall's analysis of Epi could be TMI-related, because I don't think he knows how Epi plays.

@Duskfall I have no idea what your reads are right now.

Idt you need to rn

Maybe don't make everything into an acronym

There are a few isolated moments in this dialogue that I think are telling -- I have highlighted them. If Long Con is a mafioso, he has taken some angles against Duskfall that I don't think look like distancing. That "KYLO" thing would be a pretty meaningless gotcha, for example. I don't think these two are likely mafia teammates.

Duskfall and nutella

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

i don't want to hammer. i want to talk stuff.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I agree with dusk that jiwon's multiquote post felt off somehow but I can't really pinpoint why. Might just be that she overall sounds different than she did in FTL, but that may just be that she's more comfortable on the site/with some of the overlapping players at least. Idk

It's because she's kind of tiptoey

I think we should be lynching off wagon for the next few days no need to tinfoil that scum were hard pushing their partners lover

I think it's fairly likely that DS didn't even know about it tbh??


k I only have 4 night posts left i gotta stfu

Why do you think that?

Btw just gonna say now with people speculating over 451 standards, I think if a 9-2 game was ever posted on 451 host would get flamed for it being way way way too townsided. Some of you have played there, I know at least jjj and Nutella and it's possible Nanook rebalanced but 9-2 on 451 is definitely an unfair game, 8-3 feels about even.

At this point Nutella should just claim because honestly I'm not bothered looking back to know what people are talking about, I'm sure other towns don't want to have to go pr hunting either. At this point it's been made such a big deal of and it's apparently guessable enough that mafia will be able to sort it out regardless, so may as well just have Nutella hardclaim and have Mac confirm that's her role.

I'll have to read back but currently epi is never lynch for me and Nutella is possibly lynch but I'll get back to that tomorrow no lynch today

Tbh I'm considering Nutella + jjj rn as a team, not confident but it's a possibility in case I die in the night, should be considered despite pushing each other earlier. I think there's probably at least 1 scum in them??

Btw can someone tell me nutellas role please

If any town has a rolecop sending role claim and clear Nutell immediately tomorrow, if not Nutella is near lock scum I think? The rolecop sender is either nutellas scum partner or town

In a world where role cop sending role can send a role pm to a player, though I am assuming it's targeted I guess, they always send to a partner unless they are attempting to fake clear their partner who has a townie role

So yeah if a role cop sender claims town then they are cleared unless Nutella is mafia imo

@nutella do you agree the role cop sender has to be town if you are town?

@nutella do you agree the role cop sender has to be town if you are town?

Not totally sure, but probably? Idk why a mafia would send a townie another townie to remove from the poe

Exactly so he's just town from your perspective and you should never ever lynch?

@nutella what's your read on Tony and long con again?

Spoiler: show

I agree with dusk that jiwon's multiquote post felt off somehow but I can't really pinpoint why. Might just be that she overall sounds different than she did in FTL, but that may just be that she's more comfortable on the site/with some of the overlapping players at least. Idk

gut feels without looking back at anything:

dunya
Epi
Dusk
Jack
LC
Jiwon
Tony
Mac

I voted for Mac because I thought he was bad. I think there were four votes on Mac, why not pick someone else as "the baddie who was pushing Mac", because it's definitely not me.

Nah. Tony was reasonable in his hesitance on Mac (I don't remember if his vote ended up there, but it's whatever, and I don't care to reassess Epi and Dusk at this time). You were not. You and Jay pushed back to make Mac being bad the dominant narrative over some very valid counterarguments from both Tony and me.

@nutella what's your read on Tony and long con again?

Fluctuating. When I made that string of posts last night I really thought I had caught LC, but his response still has a tone that I am tempted to believe. I don't know. I still lean town on Tony but he's also in the poe.

I think I currently feel worse about Epi than either of them, oddly enough.

@nutella do you agree the role cop sender has to be town if you are town?

Not totally sure, but probably? Idk why a mafia would send a townie another townie to remove from the poe

Exactly so he's just town from your perspective and you should never ever lynch?

I guess? I don't think I'm comfortable saying that in a 100% black and white way

The most telling stuff here is Duskfall's commentary about nutella's role and asking for a hard claim after the hard claim had already been made. That doesn't strike me as something a mafia team cooks up for the sake of appearances; it is a bizarre interchange that to me suggests dissociation.

Duskfall and TonyStarkPrime

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

It is possible there are multiple mafia teams and/or 3p i think, my role power is knowing when it is lylo or mylo. When i die the amount of scum alive is also revealed. Might as well claim that now I'm a pr that can probably die and not matter

Shouldn't your role power refer to KYLO?

Multiple scum teams would surprise me in an 11 player game.

weirdest slip of all time.

The fact that the power exists puts me on 3 scum

Given three scum, leetic not one of them

You're saying that you can eliminate some as partners, okay maybe, but there's no way (in my opinion) that those reads could really be solid, but hey, I don't have meta so maybe you are seeing things that I'm not, who knows, I still think it's unlikely

But let's say you're right and we can eliminate some players from being your partner

That doesn't make it so that we KNOW who your partner is. You see what I'm saying? There's not enough information

This is exactly my feelings on Leetic's appeals to "If I'm a wolf, who are my partners then, huh?"

Like I've said that as a townie....on day 4 after getting in fights with literally the entire playerlist. On D1, it doesn't mean much.

While I'm using a post, here's about where I'm at

Dunya (light green starts here)
Jiwon
Dusk
DS (yellow starts here)
LC
Mac
Nutella (orange starts here)
Leetic <- but Leetic is not scum with Epi or Nutella probly
Epi

I should be dark green btw, again, I've already lock cleared myself so it's strange to me no one has picked up on it yet

if you keep saying you’ve lock cleared yourself, aliens come down from space and rip you apart or something

hmmmmmmm alright mayyyyybe you can have a townread


but still lower than a lot of other ppl

I’ll take it.

I’m thinking Epi/Jack with a recruit.

You think there's a recruit in the game? Why??

Today I would lynch leetic/tony so far but no confident scumread tbh

whys tony town dunya?

@nutella what's your read on Tony and long con again?

Spoiler: show

Duskfall is town, slight townread on Nutella, no one else really catches my attention yet

Am I being towncleared for getting a bad role?

yeah tbh. also your avatar is cute

At this point Nutella should just claim because honestly I'm not bothered looking back to know what people are talking about, I'm sure other towns don't want to have to go pr hunting either. At this point it's been made such a big deal of and it's apparently guessable enough that mafia will be able to sort it out regardless, so may as well just have Nutella hardclaim and have Mac confirm that's her role.

Worth wasting a post to note that... Nutella has hard claimed? I think?

per Jay I wanted to see poll results and dusk fall's name is first and I forgot to change it

also I super think that Jay is scum but statistically I'm fine voting Mac because of game impact. But I'm not sure if Mac interacts about being given a role cop as he did if he's scum. So I changed my mind. Gonna wait on Jiwon I guess.

So look at this from my perspective. I’m clearing dusk for getting a bad role, which was NAI exactly until DS flipped vanilla. We’re at like 4 civ power roles? 5? Actually could be 8 Civ w/ power against 3 vanilla. I take back this argument, but I also recall Duskfall being pretty heavily involved in setup balance debates in favor of 8-3. This would seem like an unnecessary risk to scum in that 3, they’d feel like they’d risk giving something away. I’m on my phone now and there’s a post limit and I can’t check all of these interactions, but I have a generally good feel about Dusk. I know it’s not me. So I’m not really a fan of your POE, Mac. (Don’t bother replying to this if you’re low on post, you can fit something in later)

Wait for dusk fall to say if it's Milo

There's really not a lot going on here. None of this speaks to me, and I would call them technically compatible as mafia teammates.

Epignosis and Long Con

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

DS - Not lynching today (I don't lynch new people Day 1)
Dunya - Evil bitch (wouldn't lynch)
Duskfall - Not lynching today
Jackofhearts2005 - Would lynch but would require convincing
JiwonMeganPark - Would lynch
leetic - Should burn
Long Con - Would lynch but would require convincing
MacDougall - Would lynch because that's just a good time right there
Nutella - Not lynching today
TonyStarkPrime - Not lynching today

[VOTE: leetic] aubergine

i gave him a whole day to turn things around, and instead of showing me some town hunger, he laid back and did much of nothing. he poked LC but still did much of nothing with that prod (would actually look bad for LC if leetic is wolf). i feel like knowing what i do about town roles now, it is more likely this is 9vs2, so that adds to the double TMI points against leetic.

his vote on jack is uninspired too; jack clarified his post on leetic "leetic what have you done (to get all these votes)" and leetic is still parked there. no active game solving or need to try and figure things out.

epi: fair enough, but it feels like she has a distinguished spot where you'd lynch her without the need for convincing. what has LC or jack done less than jiwon to you?

It's a bias. I know more about LC and Jack in general than I do about Jiwon and thus feel I would have a better chance identifying their alignments later than I would Jiwon.

Looks like that Community Mafia is the only other game on this site that leetic has been scum in. In that one, he Made a big rainbow list of all the players and basically attacked low posters as scum in it. I'm not seeing any of the same style here. I don't like the unwieldy jump to "If I'm scum, why is no one saving me? If I'm scum, who is my teammate? Huh?" but I could see it just being a town reaction.

This reads like you are waffling on a decision. You say he's got town aspects and scum aspects but you could see the scum aspects as being town here.

So... you think Leetic is town then?

DS. gave LC shit for the latter working through his opinion about leetic. DS. claimed to suspect leetic but didn't find any support from LC and massaged that into a vague suspicion.

Spoiler: show

If one of Epi and Nutella is teamed with Leetic, it's Nutella by a mile. If.

Epi doesn't bus his teammate on day 1, he's pretty averse to bussing overall. I don't think anyone busses out of the gates if it's a 2-scum game.

Epi's tunneling seems to be coming from a town perspective imo

What does that mean?

Tunneling is when someone keeps pushing the same person relentlessly not really reconsidering the targets alignment or wanting to switch wagons

I know what tunneling is.

What do you mean "coming from a town perspective"? In what way does it seem like that to you exactly?

If you take me down, DS is going down with me. Is that really what you want?

Two for one ain't a bad deal.

Just got caught up, and I see the lynch ends at 3. Dunya, I know my ISO isn't that meaty. I don't usually get more heavily involved in a game until a lynch or two has gone by.

I don't suspect Epignosis, this looks fine for him. I do think that Duskfall's analysis of Epi could be TMI-related, because I don't think he knows how Epi plays.

If you take me down, DS is going down with me. Is that really what you want?

Two for one ain't a bad deal.

Just got caught up, and I see the lynch ends at 3. Dunya, I know my ISO isn't that meaty. I don't usually get more heavily involved in a game until a lynch or two has gone by.

I don't suspect Epignosis, this looks fine for him. I do think that Duskfall's analysis of Epi could be TMI-related, because I don't think he knows how Epi plays.

How do you think epi plays?

Differently than most other players I have ever seen. Belligerent, condescending, with an unwavering resolve that his methods and conclusions are true, even sometimes in the face of logical proof otherwise.

Two for one ain't a bad deal.

Just got caught up, and I see the lynch ends at 3. Dunya, I know my ISO isn't that meaty. I don't usually get more heavily involved in a game until a lynch or two has gone by.

I don't suspect Epignosis, this looks fine for him. I do think that Duskfall's analysis of Epi could be TMI-related, because I don't think he knows how Epi plays.

How do you think epi plays?

Differently than most other players I have ever seen. Belligerent, condescending, with an unwavering resolve that his methods and conclusions are true, even sometimes in the face of logical proof otherwise.

I'm too flames tbh

I don't understand.

I gave a read on a person

You pretty much said I'm correct

I'm now saying cool I'm amazing and correct

Got it. "too flames". Never heard that one. Epi is more null to me right now than town. I just said I don't suspect him.

Epi puts on good concerts btw.

dunya is my top townread but I can't be 100% sure the concert thing is completely a positive thing so I'm going with Epi

I agree with this whole post.

Good job, leetic, a sweet plan for a noble sacrifice to take down the mafia!

I get two more posts!

You sir however are in the worse position in my reckoning as per my previous post.

I have nothing to say about Jack's posts. I will snort though that you're suggesting any instance of Jack shoving one of his fecking gifs in someone's face is cause for suspicion. You fakennnn

LMAO thanks for the scumclaim, makes my job easier.

This is confirmed mafia yall.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine


.....i wrote this before the night post and im pissed i cant vote him. likely mafia ability tho so we'll get him eventually

I don't see the scumclaim, tell me your angle!

The very obvious discrediting of my read? Simply claiming that I'm faking, laughing in my face rather than acknowledging that my view of his slot is valid? That is not how town Jay reacts to my tunneling of him. He knows that I'm town and that I'm right and he's just trying to paint me as a scapegoat.

I am platonic lovers with mac, DKDK'ing Mac will solve all of our problems~
Vote: Macdougall

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


I can't figure this one out

I'm reading this as "I'm partners with DS and I can't stand it. Please help."

Is that nutella making that interpreted statement?

dunya is the reason I'm off the poll. I was notified I'd been buffed which is precisely what her role does.

Both of my top suspects have tried to play that against me now. Even if I cannot receive votes, I can be discredited.

I feel very comfortable with the state of this game. nutella and Mac could just be the team.

Give me evidence that "buff" indicates what her role does. I.e, that you are off the poll.

I would imagine that a buff is a bonus on their inherent power. I don't associate "buff" with being off the poll. Maybe that's a buff for someone who has no abilities.

I have concerns here. Epignosis has never provided a read on Long Con in this game. He hedged in that "would/would not eliminate" list, made a note about one DS interaction without a conclusion, and has left the read undeveloped. Long Con has been predominantly pro-Epignosis, albeit with at least one hedge of his own (highlighted). I would call these two compatible as mafia teammates.

Epignosis and nutella

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

DS - Not lynching today (I don't lynch new people Day 1)
Dunya - Evil bitch (wouldn't lynch)
Duskfall - Not lynching today
Jackofhearts2005 - Would lynch but would require convincing
JiwonMeganPark - Would lynch
leetic - Should burn
Long Con - Would lynch but would require convincing
MacDougall - Would lynch because that's just a good time right there
Nutella - Not lynching today
TonyStarkPrime - Not lynching today

[SNIP]

Gonna nip this in the bud, no I am not ziggy or a pr, I actually tried to clear myself based off of wording in what I assumed was a cut and pasted vanilla role pm

That's what

, sorry. Flavor! Was. With the flavor being vanilla

Just trying to not get modkilled so I didn't post it exactly lol

Anyone who has seen me play knows that I will try to auto clear myself as town any way possible

..................... what

Not sure how much clearer that could be? If you know you know?

nutella's reaction to this is similar to my own.

[SNIP]

whys tony town dunya?

I was more at why is Nutella so low?

Swap Jack and Nutella and I am okay with it

I'm not reading into this. It looks like a post to make a post.

[SNIP]

[SNIP]

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

dunya is dead and you are alive. Talk about this if you haven't already.

[Mostly-OT] Btw the "yetl" thing is a reference to an incident from a previous season of champs (that I didn't witness firsthand but have heard tell of), I believe the season that DS claims to have been "robbed" of winning lol. Basically he was in F3 with locked-in votes, there was a player named Yeti, and DS baited out the wolf by deliberately voting for a misspelling of Yeti's name so it wouldn't actually go through, and when the other player jumped on it DS caught them as a wolf and voted them instead, and I believe it is the reason that MU added the "invalid vote" warning. It's controversial but I think it was hilarious and clever tbh, I can see why it could be considered dirty play and why they changed the vote label to dissuade it, but I don't know if I'd call it "angleshooting" per se. [/Mostly-OT]

That's shit play and unsportsmanlike.

[SNIP]

"yeah these are teammates" needs evidence. I'm willing to hear it.

I get two more posts!

You sir however are in the worse position in my reckoning as per my previous post.

I have nothing to say about Jack's posts. I will snort though that you're suggesting any instance of Jack shoving one of his fecking gifs in someone's face is cause for suspicion. You fakennnn

LMAO thanks for the scumclaim, makes my job easier.

This is confirmed mafia yall.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine


.....i wrote this before the night post and im pissed i cant vote him. likely mafia ability tho so we'll get him eventually

Can you talk about the large stuff more?

Btw just gonna say now with people speculating over 451 standards, I think if a 9-2 game was ever posted on 451 host would get flamed for it being way way way too townsided. Some of you have played there, I know at least jjj and Nutella and it's possible Nanook rebalanced but 9-2 on 451 is definitely an unfair game, 8-3 feels about even.

8v3 is not even at all.

Yes I'm burning a post to say this.

Sorry nutella if that concerns you.

[SNIP]

I'm reading this as "I'm partners with DS and I can't stand it. Please help."

Also if Jiwon knew she was lovers with Mac on D1 why did she seem pretty eager to eliminate him at one point (and obviously again today but that can be more excused by her awareness that many of us would like to resolve her slot) ....maybe she just figured that leetic was going to be it at that point anyway. Idk. This is weird.

Her reaction to the lover stuff is pretty interesting on a second look. She says it would be a good deal if DS is scum and then goes ahead and hammers. Is that a bus with the tradeoff of taking down a townie too? I personally think it's pretty easy to read that way. Especially since nobody really suspected DS at the time.


After the flip she says "I created the most suspicion against DS" which......isn't really true at all lol. She was more like "what the hell might as well hammer in case DS is scum" without really suspecting him much beforehand (she had like one post with some minor pressure on him tbf). I think she knew exactly what she was doing.

[VOTE: jiwon] aubergine


linki: it's not a bullshit read. your slot's interaction with DS is hot garbage and you know this. if you were reviewing that slot from a neutral position you would have it as orange, I am certain. sure there's nothing really conclusive, but to me it fits the exact mold of a teammate pairing, partially because of the lack of material.

your read on me is the fake one. You know that I only go hard on you like this as town. In FTL I kept you comfortably in my pocket. You 100% know that I don't treat you like this as scum. You're full of shit.

Besides, you are the one who broadened the POE pool too much. You concluded your interactive exercise with a 50/50 split, which is not your typical pattern. You are leaving your options open. I have exactly three suspects.

Damn I so wish I could vote for you. But I think Jiwon is pretty likely your partner here so it's ok.

Three teammates? Wild.

@MacDougall are you the letter U? Because I love U~

Well this looks like a lover claim huh.



Would nanook really put two of these in a game of this size seeing as they could potentially take down two mafia members? That really seems unlikely to me... unless this one is different from how leetic's choice worked and can only be two townies? I'd honestly be surprised if both Jiwon and Mac are town here though, but if we're assuming a 3 person team, that's Jay + one other, and I suppose someone else could be fooling me.


I don't know. I'm eager to see what Mac says about....anything at all really.

Yes, Nanook would. Move on.

[SNIP]

My shit with you nutella right now is that you had no problem with Jack. Jack leaves and Jay comes in. All of a sudden you take a shit on Jay.

If I look through your interactions with Jack, what will I see?

Spoiler: show

If one of Epi and Nutella is teamed with Leetic, it's Nutella by a mile. If.

Epi doesn't bus his teammate on day 1, he's pretty averse to bussing overall. I don't think anyone busses out of the gates if it's a 2-scum game.

agreed


which is why if leetic is wolf his partner is tony


checkmate leetic i found your teammate what now

Epi puts on good concerts btw.

dunya is my top townread but I can't be 100% sure the concert thing is completely a positive thing so I'm going with Epi

ok, that was bad. i'm just so

poe:
mac
epi
nutella
LC

Explain these two posts s'il vous plaît.

she simply misread, I don't see an issue.

gut feels without looking back at anything:

dunya
Epi
Dusk
Jack
LC
Jiwon
Tony
Mac

Epi I'll just wait until you've read all of my posts because I think your questions have mostly already been answered and I'm tired of repeating myself and I'm running out of posts. I only have 10 after this I believe. You should keep track of yours as well. In case you didn't notice, the cap is much lower today. Good luck.

Epi you haven't done squat since D1. I don't think you're a DS teammate, but you're gonna have to participate at some point or I'll have to reconsider.

Yeah, I just looked through Epi's iso and I've been giving him credit over a whole load of nothing. He's been skating by for no reason. Absolutely nothing in there is deserving of a spot out of the POE.

@nutella what's your read on Tony and long con again?

Fluctuating. When I made that string of posts last night I really thought I had caught LC, but his response still has a tone that I am tempted to believe. I don't know. I still lean town on Tony but he's also in the poe.

I think I currently feel worse about Epi than either of them, oddly enough.

@nutella do you agree the role cop sender has to be town if you are town?

Not totally sure, but probably? Idk why a mafia would send a townie another townie to remove from the poe

Exactly so he's just town from your perspective and you should never ever lynch?

I guess? I don't think I'm comfortable saying that in a 100% black and white way

These two are not mafia teammates. Epi's aggressions against nutella bear no resemblance to the behaviors I would tend to associate with his mafia play -- particularly his attack upon her in the way of dunya being killed and his "but why" responses to her hatred of my guts.

Epignosis and TonyStarkPrime

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Okay what is this dumpster fire of a game. Ziggy deserves better.

Vote: Epi

tell me more about this pls

Epi is content with current proceedings. Town epi wouldn’t be content.

Town Epi bought a motherfucking pool and has had his ass in it every damn day. Town Epi is tan. Town Epi is looking more and more like Wolverine by the day (minus the hair and claws and healing factor). Town Epi doesn't give a shit about current proceedings until Town Epi gets to drinking and it gets dark outside.

this is a hammer game, and 48hr days. 4 votes on one person so quickly isn't ideal. let's give leetic some room to talk without feeling like whatever he says isn't going to be heard or make a difference.

[VOTE: macdougall] aubergine but whats happening m8 why aren't you here

linki: @TonyStarkPrime why aren't you happy with the current proceedings? do you townread leetic?

It’s not that I townread leetic, but I don’t get the same vibes that apparently everyone else does.

Hey leetic! There's this defender you were just talking about. Maybe he's your partner!

I don’t think Epi has reappeared, so I’m leaving my vote for now

Pool, tan, Wolverine, not giving a fuck, etc.

Why are you so obsessed with my thread presence?

Your power, mostly — the number of scum will be revealed upon death implies a changing number of scum. It just seems reasonableish. I haven’t heard the album in a while so I’m not sure if that works at all thematically.

I appreciate this line of thought. Have a chocolate.

DS - Not lynching today (I don't lynch new people Day 1)
Dunya - Evil bitch (wouldn't lynch)
Duskfall - Not lynching today
Jackofhearts2005 - Would lynch but would require convincing
JiwonMeganPark - Would lynch
leetic - Should burn
Long Con - Would lynch but would require convincing
MacDougall - Would lynch because that's just a good time right there
Nutella - Not lynching today
TonyStarkPrime - Not lynching today

[SNIP]

Well I'm not vanilla so I wouldn't know, but also it kinda seems like you're doing a sketchy angleshooty thing that you shouldn't do

he’s probably making up the whole thing, I think

You're saying that I'm faking a role pm clear with a role pm I haven't seen? That makes no sense. I was clearly referencing what I had from role pms since it was done in my first post.

Either Nanook cut and paste or he did not, those are like the only two options

Small point in Tony's favor here.

[SNIP]

DS, this is either severe angleshooting and you know it, or you’re faking. I’m choosing the more charitable option. I’ll call it NAI cause I’m nice. Let’s get on with the game.

It's minor angleshooting at best (It's definitely not YETL), and I am fine with that.

I'm taking Tony's point away (not really).

[SNIP]

Spoiler: show

Okay what is this dumpster fire of a game. Ziggy deserves better.

Vote: Epi

Okay what is this dumpster fire of a game. Ziggy deserves better.

Vote: Epi

tell me more about this pls

Epi is content with current proceedings. Town epi wouldn’t be content.

I don’t think Epi has reappeared, so I’m leaving my vote for now

[SNIP]

I’ll take it.

I’m thinking Epi/Jack with a recruit.

Also I only had two names for my scum team, but on further thought I’m not sure if Epi as scum comes out swinging but I’ve seen him do it before. A little unusual here though for more situationally specific reasons.

Epi/Leetic never w/w, per Dunya’s suggestion. I doubt that just Epi accidentally found himself in a hard bus and is now forced to run with it. I just gave him an opportunity to change his suspicion for town points and he didn’t.

Jiwon is confused or something. I don't know why he's voting for me. We are on way lovers. If I die he dies but if he dies I don't die. We had btsc til today and now we're locked out of it and he's decided to vote me.

I am VT but I have a psuedo clear on someone because someone sent me a random rolecop and the role seems super likely to be a town one.

I don't want to out them though.

If he was in BTSC with you and decided to vote for you immediately after, that doesn't looks so great on you.

Did the 'love' end when the BTSC ended?

I haven't been notified as such. I wasn't very active in it. I am vanilla town outside of the random things that have happened to me. I am also Ziggy Stardust. I don't know if that means anything at all here.

ZIGGAYYYYY
I think it means not much. You should at least be able to out the player you know as town, though, no? Unless it's like Epi in which case whatever. At the current rate people are going to be out of posts by breakfast time, leaving ample time for me to come in and figure everything out.

Tony's entrance into the game speaks to me here. He voiced displeasure with the state of affairs and placed the finger of blame squarely on Epignosis. Whether that was fair or not, I don't think it looks like the stuff of teammates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Long Con and nutella

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

POE is leetic, tony, jack

everyone else has given me reason to townread them

gg see yall next game

I didn't earn that yet.

If you take me down, DS is going down with me. Is that really what you want?

Are you lovers with DS?

Yeah

I missed this post. That implies that they're both town then, so it is as "I'm town " as a cop claim.

Linki: ok I don't really know exactly what "lovers" implies.

I think lovers can be different alignments. That said I think DS is town, but even if the claim is true I don't believe it clears leetic lol

I'd really like to hear what @DS. has to say about it.

Epi puts on good concerts btw.

dunya is my top townread but I can't be 100% sure the concert thing is completely a positive thing so I'm going with Epi

I agree with this whole post.

Good job, leetic, a sweet plan for a noble sacrifice to take down the mafia!

I get two more posts!

You sir however are in the worse position in my reckoning as per my previous post.

I have nothing to say about Jack's posts. I will snort though that you're suggesting any instance of Jack shoving one of his fecking gifs in someone's face is cause for suspicion. You fakennnn

LMAO thanks for the scumclaim, makes my job easier.

This is confirmed mafia yall.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine


.....i wrote this before the night post and im pissed i cant vote him. likely mafia ability tho so we'll get him eventually

I don't see the scumclaim, tell me your angle!

linki: it's not a bullshit read. your slot's interaction with DS is hot garbage and you know this. if you were reviewing that slot from a neutral position you would have it as orange, I am certain. sure there's nothing really conclusive, but to me it fits the exact mold of a teammate pairing, partially because of the lack of material.

I probably put a slot with a bunch of nothing in the POE pool, yes. Again, this is not what you did. You went straight to hot garbage, and at my first incredulous reply you took it to 11 and said I "claimed mafia". That's not "going hard". That's bullshitting.

your read on me is the fake one. You know that I only go hard on you like this as town. In FTL I kept you comfortably in my pocket. You 100% know that I don't treat you like this as scum. You're full of shit.

No two games are the same. I had nowhere to go but to trust you in FTL, where literally my entire faction went to sleep for the whole game. You were the only other person doing anything, and credit to you for taking proper advantage of that environment. This environment is not the same, and the dynamic changes accordingly. You're a quality player with a diverse skillset that does not limit you to treating me in identical ways in every game, particularly when they are consecutive. So that is not going to cut it.

Besides, you are the one who broadened the POE pool too much. You concluded your interactive exercise with a 50/50 split, which is not your typical pattern. You are leaving your options open. I have exactly three suspects.

Damn I so wish I could vote for you. But I think Jiwon is pretty likely your partner here so it's ok.

Why is Tony town?

No comment on my strongest point against you I see.

I know when you're struggling to emulate your town behavior. You think you can hide in your analysis but I can tell you are nudging results in the direction you want and you are fabricating the strength of your reasoning for suspecting me. You're pushing to see how far this can go and I see right through it. Sure I'm tunneling and confbiasing and all that, whatever. You've gone past the point where I could reconsider you and instead you doubled down on your bullshit on me which in turn confirmed that I am correct about you.

When I read over your posts, it looks more like you are the one fabricating your reasons for suspecting Jay. I'm just not convinced by arguments like "I know" and "I can tell" and "I see right through it". If this were a no infodumping game, then I would be all over supporting you, but I'm not getting the meat of your accusation here.

I get two more posts!

You sir however are in the worse position in my reckoning as per my previous post.

I have nothing to say about Jack's posts. I will snort though that you're suggesting any instance of Jack shoving one of his fecking gifs in someone's face is cause for suspicion. You fakennnn

LMAO thanks for the scumclaim, makes my job easier.

This is confirmed mafia yall.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine


.....i wrote this before the night post and im pissed i cant vote him. likely mafia ability tho so we'll get him eventually

I don't see the scumclaim, tell me your angle!

The very obvious discrediting of my read? Simply claiming that I'm faking, laughing in my face rather than acknowledging that my view of his slot is valid? That is not how town Jay reacts to my tunneling of him. He knows that I'm town and that I'm right and he's just trying to paint me as a scapegoat.

I am platonic lovers with mac, DKDK'ing Mac will solve all of our problems~
Vote: Macdougall

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


I can't figure this one out

I'm reading this as "I'm partners with DS and I can't stand it. Please help."

Is that nutella making that interpreted statement?

There is very little of the town nutella that I recognize in this game.

[SNIP]

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

At this point Nutella should just claim because honestly I'm not bothered looking back to know what people are talking about, I'm sure other towns don't want to have to go pr hunting either. At this point it's been made such a big deal of and it's apparently guessable enough that mafia will be able to sort it out regardless, so may as well just have Nutella hardclaim and have Mac confirm that's her role.

Worth wasting a post to note that... Nutella has hard claimed? I think?

per Jay I wanted to see poll results and dusk fall's name is first and I forgot to change it

also I super think that Jay is scum but statistically I'm fine voting Mac because of game impact. But I'm not sure if Mac interacts about being given a role cop as he did if he's scum. So I changed my mind. Gonna wait on Jiwon I guess.

I'd play the "doing my Civic duty" act if I were scum in that situation. What would you do?

@nutella why would you choose to send Mac info when he was one of your scummiest reads?

I did not send it. I have no idea who did or why.

Ok, I get it. I thought you meant you were the role that sent stuff, but I get that your stuff was sent by that role.

You don't care about the roof do you.

I just bent one nail, no harm done. I still care about the roof.

I sort of wondered if mac was just a scum rolecop and made up the thing about someone else sending it, but that seems a bit silly (except that rolecop is a common scum role so maybe it's a way to get out of claiming it himself). Still, regardless of where the check came from, I struggle to see the scum motivation in outing me, especially when I have been a common poe suspect/ML bait/in particular a likely eliminatee over Mac himself who is also on the table. I don't know why he'd remove me as an easy mislim in these circumstances if he is scum. Feels like there is only town motivation there. So that's my biggest hangup with Mac being scum. Jiwon is still my top candidate for today.

But he didn't really remove you from mislim. You did that by claiming the role.

I'm pretty clear off DS interactions so that's cool.

Looking at your DS interactions, I get the exact opposite impression. Looks like casual buddy-distancing with DS, along with careless pushes to lynch nutella and leetic. You get awarded no points for "doing the right thing while being watched" on the rolecop, and there's no other player than I have nearly as much suspicion for after reading that ISO. [VOTE: MACDADDY] aubergine

The mafia are Jay and LC.

I am not mafia.

I voted for Mac because I thought he was bad. I think there were four votes on Mac, why not pick someone else as "the baddie who was pushing Mac", because it's definitely not me.

Nah. Tony was reasonable in his hesitance on Mac (I don't remember if his vote ended up there, but it's whatever, and I don't care to reassess Epi and Dusk at this time). You were not. You and Jay pushed back to make Mac being bad the dominant narrative over some very valid counterarguments from both Tony and me.

I thought my arguments were also very reasonable, but . Hindsight is 20/20, I understand why you'd jump to this conclusion, but it's wrong. I am town.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

you are in three games at the same time! i say you gotta be bad in one of them, and why not this one.

no out of game reasoning >:|

If one of Epi and Nutella is teamed with Leetic, it's Nutella by a mile. If.

Epi doesn't bus his teammate on day 1, he's pretty averse to bussing overall. I don't think anyone busses out of the gates if it's a 2-scum game.

agreed


which is why if leetic is wolf his partner is tony


checkmate leetic i found your teammate what now

Long con its not to late to pretend you were meming don't go down this road

Who is long con?

lmfao




alright i really gotta start using multiquote i'm gonna run out of posts making all these reactions

If you take me down, DS is going down with me. Is that really what you want?

Are you lovers with DS?

Yeah

I missed this post. That implies that they're both town then, so it is as "I'm town " as a cop claim.

Linki: ok I don't really know exactly what "lovers" implies.

I think lovers can be different alignments. That said I think DS is town, but even if the claim is true I don't believe it clears leetic lol

gut feels without looking back at anything:

dunya
Epi
Dusk
Jack
LC
Jiwon
Tony
Mac

I get two more posts!

You sir however are in the worse position in my reckoning as per my previous post.

I have nothing to say about Jack's posts. I will snort though that you're suggesting any instance of Jack shoving one of his fecking gifs in someone's face is cause for suspicion. You fakennnn

LMAO thanks for the scumclaim, makes my job easier.

This is confirmed mafia yall.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine


.....i wrote this before the night post and im pissed i cant vote him. likely mafia ability tho so we'll get him eventually

I don't see the scumclaim, tell me your angle!

The very obvious discrediting of my read? Simply claiming that I'm faking, laughing in my face rather than acknowledging that my view of his slot is valid? That is not how town Jay reacts to my tunneling of him. He knows that I'm town and that I'm right and he's just trying to paint me as a scapegoat.

I am platonic lovers with mac, DKDK'ing Mac will solve all of our problems~
Vote: Macdougall

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


I can't figure this one out

I voted for Mac because I thought he was bad. I think there were four votes on Mac, why not pick someone else as "the baddie who was pushing Mac", because it's definitely not me.

Nah. Tony was reasonable in his hesitance on Mac (I don't remember if his vote ended up there, but it's whatever, and I don't care to reassess Epi and Dusk at this time). You were not. You and Jay pushed back to make Mac being bad the dominant narrative over some very valid counterarguments from both Tony and me.

spicy world is jack/dunya or jack/lc lolz

@nutella i like you having words with me before the game ends too.

what do you think of mac and LC here?

I have some extremely nebulous okay feelings about them but nothing too strong which is concerning, especially for mac I feel like I can usually find him as town pretty quickly. I know he's also been stretched pretty thin with other games/commitments tbf. Idk neither of them are out of the woods

The mafia are Jay and LC.

Still possible it's Tony. It's definitely two out of those three. I have reason to think LC though.

Look at how Jay and LC pushed for Mac. First they pushed hard for me while I was a viable miselim. Then once I claimed they both went straight for Mac despite my arguments in his favor, without any of the hesitance I had about him despite the case on him being pretty weak, and completely ignoring Jiwon as an option while I felt she was clearly looking worse. Why? Because they knew Mac would take Jiwon down with him. They could not afford to pass up the opportunity to eliminate two townies in one day and go straight into lylo (which it would have if not for the modkill). Voting for Mac was their path to victory and they didn't put in any more effort than necessary to make it look like a well thought through elimination.

I'll have to look back into Tony and how he dealt with Mac etc but I am quite confident that Jay and LC are guilty here.

The animosity between these two has recently amped up to 11. Under the circumstances, if either of them is a mafioso, their aggression toward the other looks like opportunism to me. They've been mutually contained with the general POE pool and opened fire with visible wrath. I don't think they're likely mafia teammates.

Long Con and TonyStarkPrime

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Okay what is this dumpster fire of a game. Ziggy deserves better.

Vote: Epi

Ziggy is leetic?

at this point whoever has that role can claim it at any time and can be functionally cleared.
Unless someone else is going to claim a buff then the only way JJJ is lying is if he's scum, they rb/killed Dunya, and someone else on the team got him off the poll. Seems unlikely. Buff is the simplest explanation. I agree with LC's notion that that points slightly to Jay being vanilla, but only slightly.

At this point Nutella should just claim because honestly I'm not bothered looking back to know what people are talking about, I'm sure other towns don't want to have to go pr hunting either. At this point it's been made such a big deal of and it's apparently guessable enough that mafia will be able to sort it out regardless, so may as well just have Nutella hardclaim and have Mac confirm that's her role.

Worth wasting a post to note that... Nutella has hard claimed? I think?

per Jay I wanted to see poll results and dusk fall's name is first and I forgot to change it

also I super think that Jay is scum but statistically I'm fine voting Mac because of game impact. But I'm not sure if Mac interacts about being given a role cop as he did if he's scum. So I changed my mind. Gonna wait on Jiwon I guess.

I'd play the "doing my Civic duty" act if I were scum in that situation. What would you do?

@nutella why would you choose to send Mac info when he was one of your scummiest reads?

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

you are in three games at the same time! i say you gotta be bad in one of them, and why not this one.

no out of game reasoning >:|

we're just going to gambler's fallacy LC to life/death. It's the only way he can be read now.

It is possible there are multiple mafia teams and/or 3p i think, my role power is knowing when it is lylo or mylo. When i die the amount of scum alive is also revealed. Might as well claim that now I'm a pr that can probably die and not matter

Shouldn't your role power refer to KYLO?

Multiple scum teams would surprise me in an 11 player game.

weirdest slip of all time.

The fact that the power exists puts me on 3 scum

This is nothing whatsoever. They could be mafia teammates.

nutella and TonyStarkPrime

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

POE is leetic, tony, jack

everyone else has given me reason to townread them

gg see yall next game

Tony can have a townlean unless Leetic flips wolf.

yiikes

If one of Epi and Nutella is teamed with Leetic, it's Nutella by a mile. If.

Epi doesn't bus his teammate on day 1, he's pretty averse to bussing overall. I don't think anyone busses out of the gates if it's a 2-scum game.

agreed


which is why if leetic is wolf his partner is tony


checkmate leetic i found your teammate what now

ok im not gonna waste all my posts spitting out random pairings i promise




also i just realized i agreed with jack about tony after yikesing a post but lc's point made me figure jack/tony not w/w so whatever

It is possible there are multiple mafia teams and/or 3p i think, my role power is knowing when it is lylo or mylo. When i die the amount of scum alive is also revealed. Might as well claim that now I'm a pr that can probably die and not matter

Shouldn't your role power refer to KYLO?

Multiple scum teams would surprise me in an 11 player game.

weirdest slip of all time.

The fact that the power exists puts me on 3 scum

Given three scum, leetic not one of them

You're saying that you can eliminate some as partners, okay maybe, but there's no way (in my opinion) that those reads could really be solid, but hey, I don't have meta so maybe you are seeing things that I'm not, who knows, I still think it's unlikely

But let's say you're right and we can eliminate some players from being your partner

That doesn't make it so that we KNOW who your partner is. You see what I'm saying? There's not enough information

This is exactly my feelings on Leetic's appeals to "If I'm a wolf, who are my partners then, huh?"

Like I've said that as a townie....on day 4 after getting in fights with literally the entire playerlist. On D1, it doesn't mean much.

While I'm using a post, here's about where I'm at

Dunya (light green starts here)
Jiwon
Dusk
DS (yellow starts here)
LC
Mac
Nutella (orange starts here)
Leetic <- but Leetic is not scum with Epi or Nutella probly
Epi

I should be dark green btw, again, I've already lock cleared myself so it's strange to me no one has picked up on it yet

if you keep saying you’ve lock cleared yourself, aliens come down from space and rip you apart or something

hmmmmmmm alright mayyyyybe you can have a townread


but still lower than a lot of other ppl

DS, this is either severe angleshooting and you know it, or you’re faking. I’m choosing the more charitable option. I’ll call it NAI cause I’m nice. Let’s get on with the game.

goddamnit why do you have to be the reasonable one

gut feels without looking back at anything:

dunya
Epi
Dusk
Jack
LC
Jiwon
Tony
Mac

Always a nice surprise to wake up and find that Jay has entered the game and done all the interactive analyses while I was asleep


I really don't even know how to defend my Jack vote lol. I had a snap read of him from his first couple posts, I fairly quickly retracted the "regardless of leetic's alignment" part but that was more due to my change of heart about leetic based on dunya's meta -- though by the end of day that had basically nullified itself and I was back to being fine with the leetic elimination, but never put my vote back both to avoid hammer and because I didn't really feel that strongly about it either way. Why my vote stayed on Jack specifically I don't have much reason for other than I was lazy, felt like my vote didn't matter and didn't have a strong case on anyone else. I did feel better about Jack as his activity progressed but never really arrived at a solid townread of him, and of course Jay skipped his own slot in the analysis so I'd have to look into DS interactions but I think the JackJay slot can still be in the POE.

As for DS, I was moderately surprised when he flipped scum but it also made things make sense in a way -- for instance the "clear" thing, I felt sketched out by that not necessarily just for hard-angleshoot reasons but because I suspect we don't actually have any vanilla townies in this game. I could be wrong of course but it felt off to me and in retrospect makes a lot of sense as a wolf attempting to get credit for being "vanilla" and the fact that it didn't land for anyone as fas as I could tell reinforced that it was an oopsie.

[Mostly-OT] Btw the "yetl" thing is a reference to an incident from a previous season of champs (that I didn't witness firsthand but have heard tell of), I believe the season that DS claims to have been "robbed" of winning lol. Basically he was in F3 with locked-in votes, there was a player named Yeti, and DS baited out the wolf by deliberately voting for a misspelling of Yeti's name so it wouldn't actually go through, and when the other player jumped on it DS caught them as a wolf and voted them instead, and I believe it is the reason that MU added the "invalid vote" warning. It's controversial but I think it was hilarious and clever tbh, I can see why it could be considered dirty play and why they changed the vote label to dissuade it, but I don't know if I'd call it "angleshooting" per se. [/Mostly-OT]


I can't speak for why DS stuck me in his town pile so easily other than assuming it was a pocket attempt.

Mac and Jiwon are my top suspects, and JackJay deserves more scrutiny as well. I have some reasons to feel more good than bad about Tony and LC. Our first three alphabetical players are essentially lock town imo.

linki: it's not a bullshit read. your slot's interaction with DS is hot garbage and you know this. if you were reviewing that slot from a neutral position you would have it as orange, I am certain. sure there's nothing really conclusive, but to me it fits the exact mold of a teammate pairing, partially because of the lack of material.

I probably put a slot with a bunch of nothing in the POE pool, yes. Again, this is not what you did. You went straight to hot garbage, and at my first incredulous reply you took it to 11 and said I "claimed mafia". That's not "going hard". That's bullshitting.

your read on me is the fake one. You know that I only go hard on you like this as town. In FTL I kept you comfortably in my pocket. You 100% know that I don't treat you like this as scum. You're full of shit.

No two games are the same. I had nowhere to go but to trust you in FTL, where literally my entire faction went to sleep for the whole game. You were the only other person doing anything, and credit to you for taking proper advantage of that environment. This environment is not the same, and the dynamic changes accordingly. You're a quality player with a diverse skillset that does not limit you to treating me in identical ways in every game, particularly when they are consecutive. So that is not going to cut it.

Besides, you are the one who broadened the POE pool too much. You concluded your interactive exercise with a 50/50 split, which is not your typical pattern. You are leaving your options open. I have exactly three suspects.

Damn I so wish I could vote for you. But I think Jiwon is pretty likely your partner here so it's ok.

Why is Tony town?

No comment on my strongest point against you I see.

I know when you're struggling to emulate your town behavior. You think you can hide in your analysis but I can tell you are nudging results in the direction you want and you are fabricating the strength of your reasoning for suspecting me. You're pushing to see how far this can go and I see right through it. Sure I'm tunneling and confbiasing and all that, whatever. You've gone past the point where I could reconsider you and instead you doubled down on your bullshit on me which in turn confirmed that I am correct about you.


Tony did some vague hinting that I didn't necessarily follow but knowing him I find that more likely a good sign than not. He's certainly my least clear non-suspect and would be my first fallback if my suspect pool fails.

Fucking hell

[VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

Still possible it's Tony. It's definitely two out of those three. I have reason to think LC though.

Look at how Jay and LC pushed for Mac. First they pushed hard for me while I was a viable miselim. Then once I claimed they both went straight for Mac despite my arguments in his favor, without any of the hesitance I had about him despite the case on him being pretty weak, and completely ignoring Jiwon as an option while I felt she was clearly looking worse. Why? Because they knew Mac would take Jiwon down with him. They could not afford to pass up the opportunity to eliminate two townies in one day and go straight into lylo (which it would have if not for the modkill). Voting for Mac was their path to victory and they didn't put in any more effort than necessary to make it look like a well thought through elimination.

I'll have to look back into Tony and how he dealt with Mac etc but I am quite confident that Jay and LC are guilty here.

Lmao yeah. Page 12 is just full of both of them completely shutting down any arguments both Tony and I came up with for Mac being town, which like were actually good points that they shoved away, and then going "But the DS interactions!"

It's really quite transparent now.

I voted for Mac because I thought he was bad. I think there were four votes on Mac, why not pick someone else as "the baddie who was pushing Mac", because it's definitely not me.

Nah. Tony was reasonable in his hesitance on Mac (I don't remember if his vote ended up there, but it's whatever, and I don't care to reassess Epi and Dusk at this time). You were not. You and Jay pushed back to make Mac being bad the dominant narrative over some very valid counterarguments from both Tony and me.

@nutella what's your read on Tony and long con again?

Fluctuating. When I made that string of posts last night I really thought I had caught LC, but his response still has a tone that I am tempted to believe. I don't know. I still lean town on Tony but he's also in the poe.

I think I currently feel worse about Epi than either of them, oddly enough.

@nutella do you agree the role cop sender has to be town if you are town?

Not totally sure, but probably? Idk why a mafia would send a townie another townie to remove from the poe

Exactly so he's just town from your perspective and you should never ever lynch?

I guess? I don't think I'm comfortable saying that in a 100% black and white way

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

you are in three games at the same time! i say you gotta be bad in one of them, and why not this one.

no out of game reasoning >:|

we're just going to gambler's fallacy LC to life/death. It's the only way he can be read now.

POE is leetic, tony, jack

everyone else has given me reason to townread them

gg see yall next game

I'll get there

Duskfall is town, slight townread on Nutella, no one else really catches my attention yet

Well I'm not vanilla so I wouldn't know, but also it kinda seems like you're doing a sketchy angleshooty thing that you shouldn't do

he’s probably making up the whole thing, I think

DS, this is either severe angleshooting and you know it, or you’re faking. I’m choosing the more charitable option. I’ll call it NAI cause I’m nice. Let’s get on with the game.

It's minor angleshooting at best (It's definitely not YETL), and I am fine with that.

lmao i'm actually a big fan of the yetl thing and don't really find it angleshooty necessarily, while this is for sure

what’s yetl

At this point Nutella should just claim because honestly I'm not bothered looking back to know what people are talking about, I'm sure other towns don't want to have to go pr hunting either. At this point it's been made such a big deal of and it's apparently guessable enough that mafia will be able to sort it out regardless, so may as well just have Nutella hardclaim and have Mac confirm that's her role.

Worth wasting a post to note that... Nutella has hard claimed? I think?

per Jay I wanted to see poll results and dusk fall's name is first and I forgot to change it

also I super think that Jay is scum but statistically I'm fine voting Mac because of game impact. But I'm not sure if Mac interacts about being given a role cop as he did if he's scum. So I changed my mind. Gonna wait on Jiwon I guess.

Goddamn that makes it mylo this is really unfortunate.

wait slip?

Nutella also has a huge poe for lylo but I guess that can be shortened somewhat

Considering the amount of content here, I don't feel much of anything from it. There is at least technical compatibility in that nutella has sustained Tony as a middling or low-end read without making him a priority. Tony's handling of her is rather bland too. It's possible if not necessarily moving.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

~ nutella looks the cleanest with respect to game-building, and that's fitting given her role claim. She should be challenged anyway.

~ I do not boast the same confidence about anyone else.

~ Epignosis and Long Con fit together. Gun to my head, that's the team. Duskfall also warrants closer inspection; the standard must be higher at Limlo and he hasn't done anything that provides him conclusive clearance.

~ Tony is an enigma. Again at the Limlo standard he demands attention and interrogation. Don't let anyone off easy.

~ General note: ensure you are solving the other players and not solving the host. We can never know exactly what Nanook had in mind with this setup, and there are strict limitations to purely mechanical solutions. Take your evidence seriously, but leave no stones unturned.

[TonyStarkPrime]

well the jay is open wolfing theory took a downturn

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'm also about two drinks away from just trying to solve this hcrealms style.

[TonyStarkPrime]

like why is Jay solving the game if he's scum?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

In the night! [mention]nutella[/mention] dies. She reveals to be:

Rock n Roll Suicide

You are a SPIDER FROM MARS. You win when all the APOCALYPSE NAYSAYERS are dead. When you die (by any means), you can choose to enter a neighborhood with a player of your choice rather than go to dead chat

The concert attendance is:

Duskfall (2): Jay, Nutella
Tony (2): Epi, Long Con
Epi (1): Duskfall
No one (1): Tony

D3 will end at majority (5 alive, hammer is 3), and the post cap for today is 31.

[mention]Duskfall[/mention] (102)
[mention]Epignosis[/mention] (97)
[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] (69) (nice)
[mention]Long Con[/mention] (83)
[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] (83)

[Long Con]

I think we don't have a doctor in this game. RIP nutella.

[Long Con]

Anyone who tries to kill me fails and becomes my lover instead.

XOXOXO bitch.

Would this be the third lover-style role? Is this game just all about the love? Is this Beatles Mafia, am I lost?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay then

I am dealing with a completely dead phone and will need to spend much of today getting it fixed. I can only be here when I am at my computer unless I can make that happen. Expect me later this evening

[Epignosis]

~ Epignosis and Long Con fit together. Gun to my head, that's the team.

I don't believe you believe this.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] believe it or don't, but if you're a civilian it's imperative you get your vote off of me immediately. If two mafia live, they're going to hammer me and there is nothing I can do to prevent that. I am dragging my laptop around on my back and can only find sparse wi-fi right now. Let me do my thing in the evening.

[Epignosis]

All JJJ did above was post a bunch of quotes and say whether we were nice to each other or not. It's a big nothing burger.

Any mafia team worth their salt knows how to distance and he knows that.

On the basis of those interactions, I'd split it this way:

dunya
Duskfall
Epignosis
Long Con

JiwonMeganPark
MacDougall
nutella
TonyStarkPrime

Mac is my top suspect. His being crammed into DS's POE is probably my least favorite thing among all those reviews.

It looks to me like JJJ has run out of "suspects" and has now resorted to the tenuous exercise of analyzing the interactions of people who are still breathing. The essential question has not changed even if you accept there are two remaining mafia members (which I don't). The essential question is never "Which two living people are bad together?" because you can only lynch one of them at a time anyway. The essential question is still Who is DS.'s teammate(s)?

May I remind everyone what JJJ said about me previously?

Conclusion:

I don't think Epignosis is DS's teammate.

What about Long Con?

Conclusion:

I wish I had more to talk about, but I like it anyway -- especially LC's handling of the lover claim. I dig.

So I'm not DS.'s teammate, and LC's probably not DS.'s teammate, but LC and I are teammates together? Just how many mafia teams are there?

Another thing:

Whatever [VOTE: No kill] aubergine

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME that should be hammer

In what bloody universe does a civilian JaggedJimmyJay hammer no lynch when there are still hours remaining in the Day phase? If a civilian JJJ is off the poll, then he knows there is mathematically less of a chance that a civilian dies. A mafia JJJ saw a quick path to the Night phase. The quicker he could silence nutella, the better.

Or fuck it, let's encourage everyone to be silent!

I am considering a dialogue I had yesterday in the spec chat with our friends Ranmilla and Arapocalypse about Mimlo situations -- they suggest it is optimal to engage in no hunting during this period (essentially right now for us in this open night phase) as a means of 1) saving energy for the Limlo hunt with almost all of the same information available, 2) removing one player from the focus of that hunt, and 3) limiting information for the mafia to decide their kill. It's compelling and I am inclined to give it a try here.

I still intend to review the game on my own and determine where I stand on everything. I may not share it though. I am open to dissent there. It's counter to my usual methods, but I am rather fascinated by it as a chance for personal growth and experimentation.

"Don't talk at Night in case it's the last Night phase because it will influence the kill?"

What steaming load of shit is this?

First, any influence civilians can have on a mafia faction's kill is a good thing. JJJ knows this.

Second, the privilege of posting during the Night phase is to the civilian faction's benefit because it can keep continued pressure on the mafia. JJJ knows this too.

But even if I'm generous and agree that there are two mafia members left (I don't see any evidence to support that notion), by hammering no lynch, JJJ buried the Day phase in silence and then encouraged the Night to pass in silence.

I am amazed I am even typing these sentences.

Personal growth and experimentation my ass.

And one more thing: When was the last time a civilian JaggedJimmyJay had just 39 posts total at the commencement of Day 3?

[Epignosis]

@Epignosis believe it or don't, but if you're a civilian it's imperative you get your vote off of me immediately. If two mafia live, they're going to hammer me and there is nothing I can do to prevent that. I am dragging my laptop around on my back and can only find sparse wi-fi right now. Let me do my thing in the evening.

Fine.

My "ghost vote" is on JaggedJimmyJay.

Wooooooooooo

[Duskfall]

Rolecop needs to claim

[Duskfall]

Btw I have rolecop result today

[Epignosis]

Rolecop needs to claim

I read through all of your posts and I don't have any idea where you stand on anybody living (aside from me). That's concerning.

I've seen multiple posts about a role cop but very little telling me who should be murdered today.

It is possible there are multiple mafia teams and/or 3p i think, my role power is knowing when it is lylo or mylo. When i die the amount of scum alive is also revealed. Might as well claim that now I'm a pr that can probably die and not matter

Hi we are in Mylo

Am I to understand then that according to your role there must be two mafia members alive?

I am trying to decide if I buy your role claim. It has no bearing on your alignment, of course.

Its utility doesn't afford the civilians much of anything in terms of helping them succeed outside of gaining insight on when "no lynch" makes the best sense. And yet it's an easy thing for an informed mafioso to fake.

[Duskfall]

There's exactly 2 mafia alive and I likely have the correct solve and will vote immediately after the rolecop claims and is confirmed, no one else should vote before me

[Long Con]

Did you get a scum role or a town role?

[Duskfall]

Not revealing till role cop claims, this is also my last post until rolecop claims. In the event anyone posts after this without claiming rolecop I'll assume you are not, so town rolecop if you withold your claim the odds are I will end up voting you today and we will lose. There's no reason to withhold here

[Long Con]

Not revealing till role cop claims, this is also my last post until rolecop claims. In the event anyone posts after this without claiming rolecop I'll assume you are not, so town rolecop if you withold your claim the odds are I will end up voting you today and we will lose. There's no reason to withhold here

I sent you JJJ's role last night.

[Duskfall]

Ok jjj's role is not what he claimed if he get's the concert vote he becomes immune (fails going into lylo) so he has lied multiple times this game, including coming into lylo. So jjj is either scum here or we get to blame the game on him for fakeclaiming for no real reason last night, trying to get immunity.

Aside from that i am going to accept long con as town for sending me jjj's role pm and sending town a role pm n1 also. Epi is probably town due to relations with jjj today, apparently voting and unvoting jjj makes it unlikely scumpartner. So team here is almost definitely just jjj + tony

[Long Con]

What is his real role?

[Duskfall]

jjj's role is if during a night he get's the most concert visiting votes he becomes vote immune the next day, only works once per game and can't work in mylo/lylo

[Long Con]

Nice.... he got NO concert votes last night

[Epignosis]

Nevermind my concert, I forgot half of my role. Had at least half of you attended it would have automatically redirected the night kill to me, which would have been wonderful. But it doesn't work entering a Mimlo/Limlo so meh

Yeah, that's bogus.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ok jjj's role is not what he claimed if he get's the concert vote he becomes immune (fails going into lylo) so he has lied multiple times this game, including coming into lylo. So jjj is either scum here or we get to blame the game on him for fakeclaiming for no real reason last night, trying to get immunity.

Aside from that i am going to accept long con as town for sending me jjj's role pm and sending town a role pm n1 also. Epi is probably town due to relations with jjj today, apparently voting and unvoting jjj makes it unlikely scumpartner. So team here is almost definitely just jjj + tony

This is horseshit.

My claim was true, and I only provided it because why the hell not -- by the point I wanted to make use of it, we had been double-modkilled into Mimlo and neutralized it. Duskfall has crafted this fake claim out of the real role I provided and melded it with my having been removed from a poll most likely by dunya.

Epi popping in now with a new view that my claim was "bogus" probably means those two are the team. They fit together in my review, and I will expand on that now.

[Epignosis]

Ok jjj's role is not what he claimed if he get's the concert vote he becomes immune (fails going into lylo) so he has lied multiple times this game, including coming into lylo. So jjj is either scum here or we get to blame the game on him for fakeclaiming for no real reason last night, trying to get immunity.

Aside from that i am going to accept long con as town for sending me jjj's role pm and sending town a role pm n1 also. Epi is probably town due to relations with jjj today, apparently voting and unvoting jjj makes it unlikely scumpartner. So team here is almost definitely just jjj + tony

This is horseshit.

My claim was true, and I only provided it because why the hell not -- by the point I wanted to make use of it, we had been double-modkilled into Mimlo and neutralized it. Duskfall has crafted this fake claim out of the real role I provided and melded it with my having been removed from a poll most likely by dunya.

Epi popping in now with a new view that my claim was "bogus" probably means those two are the team. They fit together in my review, and I will expand on that now.

And this?

Not revealing till role cop claims, this is also my last post until rolecop claims. In the event anyone posts after this without claiming rolecop I'll assume you are not, so town rolecop if you withold your claim the odds are I will end up voting you today and we will lose. There's no reason to withhold here

I sent you JJJ's role last night.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I bet Long Con did send him the role. As I understand it, he doesn't see what the role is. His target does.

[Long Con]

I bet Long Con did send him the role. As I understand it, he doesn't see what the role is. His target does.

That is right, but I'm not the one counterclaiming you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Duskfall and Epignosis expanded

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I would be amazingly shocked if nanook made a game 9v2 that's way way too townsided

Eh? I don't agree. You prefer 8v3? Mafia wins that about 85% of the time.

Depends on town role power

Long con its not to late to pretend you were meming don't go down this road

Is this the new word for what I call "fucking with people?"

If so, fuck.

It is a synonym!

Epi's tunneling seems to be coming from a town perspective imo

Epi's tunneling seems to be coming from a town perspective imo

What does that mean?

Tunneling is when someone keeps pushing the same person relentlessly not really reconsidering the targets alignment or wanting to switch wagons

I know what tunneling is.

What do you mean "coming from a town perspective"? In what way does it seem like that to you exactly?

I mean I don't think he does this as scum

So it is probably town

or epi give me hammer one of you

If you take me down, DS is going down with me. Is that really what you want?

Two for one ain't a bad deal.

Just got caught up, and I see the lynch ends at 3. Dunya, I know my ISO isn't that meaty. I don't usually get more heavily involved in a game until a lynch or two has gone by.

I don't suspect Epignosis, this looks fine for him. I do think that Duskfall's analysis of Epi could be TMI-related, because I don't think he knows how Epi plays.

How do you think epi plays?

I'll have to read back but currently epi is never lynch for me and Nutella is possibly lynch but I'll get back to that tomorrow no lynch today

On Duskfall's end, the dialogue is blasé -- some idle chatter with a single vague read about Epi tunneling that has seemingly swelled into "never eliminate". That is on its own not so alarming; it's just boring. The worse material comes from Epignosis:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I would be amazingly shocked if nanook made a game 9v2 that's way way too townsided

Eh? I don't agree. You prefer 8v3? Mafia wins that about 85% of the time.

Long con its not to late to pretend you were meming don't go down this road

Is this the new word for what I call "fucking with people?"

If so, fuck.

More boring. It leads to:

Spoiler: show

DS - Not lynching today (I don't lynch new people Day 1)
Dunya - Evil bitch (wouldn't lynch)
Duskfall - Not lynching today
Jackofhearts2005 - Would lynch but would require convincing
JiwonMeganPark - Would lynch
leetic - Should burn
Long Con - Would lynch but would require convincing
MacDougall - Would lynch because that's just a good time right there
Nutella - Not lynching today
TonyStarkPrime - Not lynching today

The easiest free pass Epignosis has ever awarded. This isn't Duskfall's first game here, so that doesn't apply. This was not earned, and Epi tends to be a demanding player.

Spoiler: show

[SNIP]

Np I town tell as every alignment

Its a bad role because he said I would get a good role which implies a vig which I didn't get

I don't even have an active

Well we both know line 1 isn't true but moving on

I think it's probably some sort of 8v 2 v 1 scenario or something assuming your role is true

I'm not sure I understand this reaction, but I think it reflects well on Duskfall.

[SNIP]

If there's a vanilla role pm nanook would definitely give it to scum and I have seen ds try this kind of stunt as both alignments so it means nothing to me

This is fair.

I'm still lock town though

Small point in Duskfall's favor here.

[SNIP]

Personally I think dunya has been the most outwardly aggressive in a way that scum could be if they were attempting to power. Not sure if that aligns with their normal meta or not

With no meta on anyone but Dusk really my read at this point before flips is gonna be based off of wagonomics as the day goes on.

Mac needs to put a real vote down. We are past RVS.

The adverbs are real with this one.

While I could give "personally" a pass (personally, I wouldn't ), calling dunya "outwardly aggressive" is a really strange thing to say. What else would she be? Inwardly aggressive?

"in a way that scum could be if they were attempting to power."

There is so much hedging language in there I could build a maze.

DS. was looking for a way in to vote dunya without committing to it.

DS. mentioned Duskfall (whatever) but saw the need to tack on a Mac prod. Noted.

[SNIP]

whys tony town dunya?

I was more at why is Nutella so low?

Swap Jack and Nutella and I am okay with it

I'm not reading into this. It looks like a post to make a post.

[SNIP]

In which Epignosis plucks out things with Duskfall's name in them and takes stances for no discernible reason. Duskfall gave some alignment-vacant dismissal of DS's vanilla thing, and that was a "small point for him". Why? What is to like about Duskfall and DS babbling over mechanics?

When I don't know why a Duskfall read exists, I can on some level attribute that to the cultural differences in our Mafia experience. At 451 for example, that kind of thing is prevalent. I cannot say the same for Epignosis. I should have some clue why he feels this way.

Spoiler: show

Btw just gonna say now with people speculating over 451 standards, I think if a 9-2 game was ever posted on 451 host would get flamed for it being way way way too townsided. Some of you have played there, I know at least jjj and Nutella and it's possible Nanook rebalanced but 9-2 on 451 is definitely an unfair game, 8-3 feels about even.

8v3 is not even at all.

Yes I'm burning a post to say this.

Sorry nutella if that concerns you.

This was Epi's last acknowledgement that Dusk exists until today. Zero effort to resolve this player.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Forgive my abysmal spoilers. That's another experiment.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I bet Long Con did send him the role. As I understand it, he doesn't see what the role is. His target does.

That is right, but I'm not the one counterclaiming you.

Yes. Right. Agreed.

[Epignosis]

Civilian JJJ would have cleared me by this point. It's simple. I could have easily gotten that lynch off leetic Day 1 and saved my n00b teammate. I didn't do that. I don't like to bus. I especially don't bus new people who are on my team the first Day unless he or she takes a big unavoidable dump in the thread (and DS. didn't do that from my perspective until he started shitting on me).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Spoiler: show

All JJJ did above was post a bunch of quotes and say whether we were nice to each other or not. It's a big nothing burger.

Any mafia team worth their salt knows how to distance and he knows that.

It's an efficient manner of compiling content into one place and making judgments without tirelessly commenting on every single post when I don't even know who is going to be night killed. It's a baseline, a platform to spring from, and if necessary a legacy. The highlighted thing is not a good faith assessment of what I did.

The second line is garbage. You don't give a shit about distance. The last time I caught you, it was because you treated your GOC partner Sloonei like a fucking mime. You didn't distance shit.

Spoiler: show

On the basis of those interactions, I'd split it this way:

dunya
Duskfall
Epignosis
Long Con

JiwonMeganPark
MacDougall
nutella
TonyStarkPrime

Mac is my top suspect. His being crammed into DS's POE is probably my least favorite thing among all those reviews.

It looks to me like JJJ has run out of "suspects" and has now resorted to the tenuous exercise of analyzing the interactions of people who are still breathing. The essential question has not changed even if you accept there are two remaining mafia members (which I don't). The essential question is never "Which two living people are bad together?" because you can only lynch one of them at a time anyway. The essential question is still Who is DS.'s teammate(s)?

The "essential question" is "how do we win the Mafia game?". You're playing dumb here. There's a reason I take this approach to solving so often -- it is effective. This isn't some novel shit. You know this.

Relationships with DS are important and should be considered. When the game state clearly demands reassessment however, as you illustrate this one does with your strikethroughs, then this split no longer holds water. There must be something wrong in that green pile. That's why I have to charge myself with the task of figuring it out by way of interactions beyond just DS. Because it was DS that led me to that split in the first place. Which is why this is trash:

Spoiler: show

May I remind everyone what JJJ said about me previously?

Conclusion:

I don't think Epignosis is DS's teammate.

What about Long Con?

Conclusion:

I wish I had more to talk about, but I like it anyway -- especially LC's handling of the lover claim. I dig.

So I'm not DS.'s teammate, and LC's probably not DS.'s teammate, but LC and I are teammates together? Just how many mafia teams are there?

You know better than this. You behave as if I am meant to plop my ass on the reads I made four days ago and hope for the best. Civilians don't win that way.

Spoiler: show

Another thing:

Whatever [VOTE: No kill] aubergine

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME that should be hammer

In what bloody universe does a civilian JaggedJimmyJay hammer no lynch when there are still hours remaining in the Day phase? If a civilian JJJ is off the poll, then he knows there is mathematically less of a chance that a civilian dies. A mafia JJJ saw a quick path to the Night phase. The quicker he could silence nutella, the better.

Or fuck it, let's encourage everyone to be silent!

I am considering a dialogue I had yesterday in the spec chat with our friends Ranmilla and Arapocalypse about Mimlo situations -- they suggest it is optimal to engage in no hunting during this period (essentially right now for us in this open night phase) as a means of 1) saving energy for the Limlo hunt with almost all of the same information available, 2) removing one player from the focus of that hunt, and 3) limiting information for the mafia to decide their kill. It's compelling and I am inclined to give it a try here.

I still intend to review the game on my own and determine where I stand on everything. I may not share it though. I am open to dissent there. It's counter to my usual methods, but I am rather fascinated by it as a chance for personal growth and experimentation.

"Don't talk at Night in case it's the last Night phase because it will influence the kill?"

What steaming load of shit is this?

First, any influence civilians can have on a mafia faction's kill is a good thing. JJJ knows this.

Second, the privilege of posting during the Night phase is to the civilian faction's benefit because it can keep continued pressure on the mafia. JJJ knows this too.

But even if I'm generous and agree that there are two mafia members left (I don't see any evidence to support that notion), by hammering no lynch, JJJ buried the Day phase in silence and then encouraged the Night to pass in silence.

I am amazed I am even typing these sentences.

Personal growth and experimentation my ass.[/quote]

I don't care what you think of this approach. You are the world's least graceful receptor of change or new ideas. Whatever your alignment you're going to gripe with this because it's not what you know. That's what you do. I want to improve my play, and sometimes that means trying approaches that I wouldn't have otherwise considered. This is not the last time I will try this one.

And one more thing: When was the last time a civilian JaggedJimmyJay had just 39 posts total at the commencement of Day 3?

1. I wonder why.
2. You don't give a shit how many posts I make. You know I can make 500 if I want to make 500.

The non-quoted shit in the spoilers is Epignosis, not me. It's a pain in the ass to fix.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I could have easily gotten that lynch off leetic Day 1 and saved my n00b teammate.

Where do you go instead? Who follows you?

[Duskfall]

Oh neat he stuck to his fakeclaim i don't have to tinfoil

[Duskfall]

Oh dear I am going to have to decide the game tomorrow aren't I

[Duskfall]

DS is usually anti bussing so I'll probably not tinfoil and do Tony + jjj

[Epignosis]

DS is usually anti bussing so I'll probably not tinfoil and do Tony + jjj

You have more posts than 3J. You are a civilian and he is not.

When I keep getting post volume shoved down my throat as a civilian indicator, you can be damn sure I'm going to keep that in mind when things go the other way around.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Okay, I'm here. I sent Dusk a random role last night. I think that this counterclaims someone else, but it's confirmable by my interactions with Mac yesterday where I breadcrumbed this heavily. Catching up now.