Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[TonyStarkPrime]

wdym giving up on his poe

I guess it's only giving up if he tries to get me chopped over Colin or you. That's the suggestion I get from his posts.

[nutella]

cursory glance shows you thought he couldn't be 3p for "reasons"


hm

I'm not talking about those reasons and will not because I was clearly wrong. But it doesn't make sense for a wolf, especially a wolf who knows that pawn is the SK (but I don't think the wolves did know that), to present that as a thought.

not sure i follow lol


especially given your parenthetical why wouldn't a wolf say that? like to present a perspective of pawn being a suspect as a potential wolf in the poe still / to combat tmi? idk

[Hally]

cursory glance shows you thought he couldn't be 3p for "reasons"


hm

I'm not talking about those reasons and will not because I was clearly wrong. But it doesn't make sense for a wolf, especially a wolf who knows that pawn is the SK (but I don't think the wolves did know that), to present that as a thought.

why wouldn’t you talk about them

[nutella]

wdym giving up on his poe

I guess it's only giving up if he tries to get me chopped over Colin or you. That's the suggestion I get from his posts.

well I'm hoping to be relatively cleared soon enough


Colin is prob my top suspect tho, so if it can be shown that you're unaligned with him that's cool


the way he tagged along to hally's case on pawn definitely looks opportunistic in retrospect, whether he thought pawn was town or 3p, he was an easy poe target who wolf!colin knew was not on his team

[Hally]

That probably should unalign me from Colin, and I really want Jay to try to create a compelling case I'm mafia from there

what should unalign you from colin?

[TonyStarkPrime]

lol tell? nah.
I expressed numerous times the idea that Pawn was unlikely to be the SK and that thus it would be better to chop Colin. It doesn't make me town but it does reduce the likelihood I was scum with Colin. As to the parenthetical, this is where our good friend Bayes comes into play. But that's sorta irrelevant I guess.

[Hally]

lol tell? nah.
I expressed numerous times the idea that Pawn was unlikely to be the SK and that thus it would be better to chop Colin. It doesn't make me town but it does reduce the likelihood I was scum with Colin. As to the parenthetical, this is where our good friend Bayes comes into play. But that's sorta irrelevant I guess.

why did you think pawn was unlikely to be sk

why would you not divulge this

why are you even bringing it up if you don’t wanna elaborate

[TonyStarkPrime]

like what I'm bussing Colin? but then why do I attack Alison for connecting Colin and Pawn?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I do a terrible job of making points nowadays.

[Hally]

idk if i’m just sleep deprived but idk what you’re talking about

[TonyStarkPrime]

Frankly I'd benefit from taking a step back and explaining my thought process more instead of just throwing random ideas into the thread.

[Hally]

i agree

[nutella]

Frankly I'd benefit from taking a step back and explaining my thought process more instead of just throwing random ideas into the thread.

i mean personally i think tossing underdeveloped thoughts into the thread the way you've been doing is generally a town indicator, it's just also good to be able to develop them for other people to understand if possible


like jay is scumreading you for just spitting out scattered random takes, but i lean toward that being town behavior -- making quick leaps in logic in your head about things that you don't necessarily justify in writing

kinda like turnip's town meta, they do a lot of unspoken processing and just jump to conclusions. and your play here is even a bit more transparent than theirs usually is, i think it's just hard for us to follow the way you think

[JaggedJimmyJay]

yeah that's right. I wasn't really thinking about it.

Tony's mafia. His "suspicion" of me has been vague horseshit all game long. He can hardly stick a random take into the thread without immediately pulling back on it. He has no real opinions of anything.

Each of you out there: I challenge you to tell me what TonyStarkPrime's read is on you -- not what takes he has given on assorted posts, but what his read is.

like. to borrow an idea from Epi, I don't believe that you believe this.

I don't care what you claim you believe. Your assorted takes are a mess of nonsense. I have no clue where you stand beyond some vague notion of "I guess I agree with the POE pool". Your play has been utterly aimless.

[nutella]

yeah that's right. I wasn't really thinking about it.

Tony's mafia. His "suspicion" of me has been vague horseshit all game long. He can hardly stick a random take into the thread without immediately pulling back on it. He has no real opinions of anything.

Each of you out there: I challenge you to tell me what TonyStarkPrime's read is on you -- not what takes he has given on assorted posts, but what his read is.

like. to borrow an idea from Epi, I don't believe that you believe this.

I don't care what you claim you believe. Your assorted takes are a mess of nonsense. I have no clue where you stand beyond some vague notion of "I guess I agree with the POE pool". Your play has been utterly aimless.

why is aimlessness a wolf tell for him though

i think it's the opposite

i think wolf tsp would look a lot more organized

[JaggedJimmyJay]

like jay is scumreading you for just spitting out scattered random takes, but i lean toward that being town behavior -- making quick leaps in logic in your head about things that you don't necessarily justify in writing

I think I would agree with you if it all led somewhere. Let's say Tony is assessing Player X. Represent a negative take with a "-" and a positive take with a "+". Tony's assessments of Player X:

- - + - + + + - - + - + - + + + - - + - + - +

What is the conclusion?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

why is aimlessness a wolf tell for him though

i think it's the opposite

i think wolf tsp would look a lot more organized

This isn't a meta read. I don't really care about that right now frankly. If I just ask myself "is this an easy way for TonyStarkPrime to feign involvement as a mafioso?" the answer is "yes".

[nutella]

like jay is scumreading you for just spitting out scattered random takes, but i lean toward that being town behavior -- making quick leaps in logic in your head about things that you don't necessarily justify in writing

I think I would agree with you if it all led somewhere. Let's say Tony is assessing Player X. Represent a negative take with a "-" and a positive take with a "+". Tony's assessments of Player X:

- - + - + + + - - + - + - + + + - - + - + - +

What is the conclusion?

what is the point of pulling this post out of your ass

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm still thinking about it. Jay giving up on his POE and all of his interactive reads to take shots at me feels pretty forced.

What even is this sentence? How does this reflect my play? What?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

what is the point of pulling this post out of your ass

I'm trying to represent my perception of Tony's play concisely.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Each of you out there: I challenge you to tell me what TonyStarkPrime's read is on you -- not what takes he has given on assorted posts, but what his read is.

like this is pretty arbitrary. Jay, do you think anyone in this game has expressed more "concrete" or like "authentic" reads than I have? Everyone's sharing around their own version of an identical reads list, does that count? No, my head's not on particularly straight this game. But like what am I gonna do? You've already made a full interactions map, created a poe we're all fairly content with. I have no interest in doing it again to come to largely the same conclusions.

[nutella]

why is aimlessness a wolf tell for him though

i think it's the opposite

i think wolf tsp would look a lot more organized

This isn't a meta read. I don't really care about that right now frankly. If I just ask myself "is this an easy way for TonyStarkPrime to feign involvement as a mafioso?" the answer is "yes".

I mean my take isn't even a fully developed meta read necessarily, though i think it is influenced by the fact that i've sort of recently gotten to know tsp more as a person and in a way have a better handle on how he thinks in general

but it's also something that can apply broadly as a towntell imo

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think Jay has a very good impression of what my posts look like. I'm sure my ISO wrt alison can be summed up exactly like that

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Each of you out there: I challenge you to tell me what TonyStarkPrime's read is on you -- not what takes he has given on assorted posts, but what his read is.

like this is pretty arbitrary. Jay, do you think anyone in this game has expressed more "concrete" or like "authentic" reads than I have?

Yes. Absolutely.

Everyone's sharing around their own version of an identical reads list, does that count? No, my head's not on particularly straight this game. But like what am I gonna do? You've already made a full interactions map, created a poe we're all fairly content with. I have no interest in doing it again to come to largely the same conclusions.

Are you coming to the same conclusions? I literally cannot tell.

[TonyStarkPrime]

like jay is scumreading you for just spitting out scattered random takes, but i lean toward that being town behavior -- making quick leaps in logic in your head about things that you don't necessarily justify in writing

I think I would agree with you if it all led somewhere. Let's say Tony is assessing Player X. Represent a negative take with a "-" and a positive take with a "+". Tony's assessments of Player X:

- - + - + + + - - + - + - + + + - - + - + - +

What is the conclusion?

[nutella]

what is the point of pulling this post out of your ass

I'm trying to represent my perception of Tony's play concisely.

well I'd be interested to see if you can defend that perspective with evidence from his actual content.

I'm not necessarily defending that he has good progressions or anything, I concede to your point that I can't really tell you what his reads have been. I just think that it's unfair to make that point without specifics

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To be clear:

By tone, I think Tony sounds fine. Someone has to be a mafioso though, and I don't think his posts would be a difficult fit in that alignment.

[nutella]

I think Jay has a very good impression of what my posts look like. I'm sure my ISO wrt alison can be summed up exactly like that

lol k

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'll tell you that I'm going to come to the conclusion that Colin has high scum equity and fits in all the most common teams. I've pointed to posts that align him with Alison, I think he's potentially aligned with you. He's less aligned with Epi, though that's more the case with the spot that Nutella currently occupies.

[nutella]

and I sympathize with having such a progression on alison specifically

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll tell you that I'm going to come to the conclusion that Colin has high scum equity and fits in all the most common teams. I've pointed to posts that align him with Alison, I think he's potentially aligned with you. He's less aligned with Epi, though that's more the case with the spot that Nutella currently occupies.

I agree that it's difficult to see a civilian Colin in this universe.

[nutella]

To be clear:

By tone, I think Tony sounds fine. Someone has to be a mafioso though, and I don't think his posts would be a difficult fit in that alignment.

i have a suddenly burning hot take that i now want to post in the "unpopular mafia opinions" thread on mu



tone > content




hi nanook

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'm sort of feeling long con / colin / Alison but we actually all could do with some increased focus on Long Con.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Hally said something about trying to take Long Con out of the cleartown list, wasa that Colin who was trying? Ugh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

tone > content

In many cases I would agree. That's a big part of my read on Kitsu and sabie12. But for another cheese catchphrase:

everything is contextual

[nutella]

I'm sort of feeling long con / colin / Alison but we actually all could do with some increased focus on Long Con.

do you have a reason to disbelieve wisp's clear of lc?

[TonyStarkPrime]

This is one of those times where a thought process could have used some censorship

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'm sort of feeling long con / colin / Alison but we actually all could do with some increased focus on Long Con.

do you have a reason to disbelieve wisp's clear of lc?

Mechanics bring his role into some immediate disbelief. Flavorwise it would make sense for him to have some sort of insanity. As far as game state goes, there are great reasons for LC to be a wolf based on his day one behavior particularly if Colin were a teammate. Both of these things point to some reason to be at least cautious. For these reasons, LC is at the bottom of my town pile for now.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Long Con is held in the town pile by his play in night one, not particularly from the cop check in my mind

[TonyStarkPrime]

[VOTE: pawn lelouch] aubergine

town colin has no reason to oppose a lelouch execute there btw. i think they are buddies now

arbitrary

this is weird too. maybe it points to Alison/colin being unaligned? or maybe the idea is w!alison is freed from colin suspicion when pawn flips not wolf. unclear

[TonyStarkPrime]

So the rules say there are fake claims given to anti-town players. How do we imagine Wisp's role interacts with those?

we dont know, thats what we’re talking about now

I have to imagine there's a good chance that Wisp sees the fake-claim. Otherwise, it's a pretty damn powerful role.

your attempt to shift LC out of the lock town pool has been denied

well there goes Alison/LC/Colin

[TonyStarkPrime]

man that's the greatest single post rebuttal to a scum team I've ever seen

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]nutella[/mention], if neither Tony nor Long Con is a mafioso, who is?

[nutella]

[VOTE: pawn lelouch] aubergine

town colin has no reason to oppose a lelouch execute there btw. i think they are buddies now

arbitrary

this is weird too. maybe it points to Alison/colin being unaligned? or maybe the idea is w!alison is freed from colin suspicion when pawn flips not wolf. unclear

I would lean more toward the latter

[JaggedJimmyJay]

man that's the greatest single post rebuttal to a scum team I've ever seen

I don't think that even dissociates them.

[nutella]

@nutella, if neither Tony nor Long Con is a mafioso, who is?

colin and alison are my main suspects rn

daisy, sabie, epi are kind of my fringe poe/wildcards

[TonyStarkPrime]

man that's the greatest single post rebuttal to a scum team I've ever seen

I don't think that even dissociates them.

all three of them? I don't think it disassociates colin and alison, but certainly LC

[TonyStarkPrime]

@nutella, if neither Tony nor Long Con is a mafioso, who is?

colin and alison are my main suspects rn

daisy, sabie, epi are kind of my fringe poe/wildcards

what about wilgy?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'm falling asleep now

[TonyStarkPrime]

ignore that