Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[ColinIsCool]

Any time I log onto this site with 3+ notifications it fills me with a deep, deep dread

[Alison]

To be frank:

Until Tony provides a coherent explanation for "Pawn is 3P oh wait nevermind nope", I am considering him outed.

Not suspicious. Outed.

i struggle to believe tony slips that badly but it certainly needs to be explained better than he has so far

why not?

I slipped in my second post in space invaders by saying "they" instead of "us" when referring to the bunkers

[ColinIsCool]

colin has claimed miller so we can vig or yeet him ig

You guys know you need civs around to win the game, right? Or do y’all do things differently?

[ColinIsCool]

where was the scum kill N1 though if nanook was the sk shot and fg was the vig shot

maybe it was blocked or doctored?

I’m a role blocker and I haven’t used my ability.

[Alison]

colin has claimed miller so we can vig or yeet him ig

You guys know you need civs around to win the game, right? Or do y’all do things differently?

we are doing POE

we assemble a list of players we think have all or most of the scum in it, and just shoot them all

we will kill some civillians for sure but hopefully also kill most of the scum in the process

[ColinIsCool]

yeah that's right. I wasn't really thinking about it.

Tony's mafia. His "suspicion" of me has been vague horseshit all game long. He can hardly stick a random take into the thread without immediately pulling back on it. He has no real opinions of anything.

Each of you out there: I challenge you to tell me what TonyStarkPrime's read is on you -- not what takes he has given on assorted posts, but what his read is.

It’s been back and forth all game, not sure why he scumread me in the first place though.

[Hally]

To be frank:

Until Tony provides a coherent explanation for "Pawn is 3P oh wait nevermind nope", I am considering him outed.

Not suspicious. Outed.

i struggle to believe tony slips that badly but it certainly needs to be explained better than he has so far

why not?

I slipped in my second post in space invaders by saying "they" instead of "us" when referring to the bunkers

yea, but that was a simple mistake that’s easy to do accidentally

tony’s was like “time to divulge this info that only i as scum would know send post.” there’s nothing that looks accidental about that. he clearly meant to write it so it can’t be a “slip” per se. the question is why does he ever intentionally write that as a wolf

the part that makes it look worse is actually the retraction immediately after but like

overall the existence of those posts just makes no sense for tony to write as either alignment but ig it makes more sense to write it as a wolf?

so in that sense ig it is a “slip”

[KitsuShel]

according to the rules of the game (listed on the first page), all the scum are already given fake claims. if wisp is scum they do not need to go to extra effort to obtain fake claims - they will have one given to them by the host.

if wisp and LC are on a team together, then hally wouldn't have detected wisp investigating LC's role. so none of those possibilities are likely.

6) Anti town players get fake claims if applicable.

That’s doesn’t say they definitely get one in this game, just that’s it’s a possibility. I usually stay by thinking that nothing is set in stone until I see it in black and white.

[Alison]

have we considered that there's no vig?

kill + clean seems more in line with something a mafia would do than something a town role would do. it's possible that SK shot nanook and mafia shot FG.if we think about it from the perspective of a mafia member, denying the FG flip to us is powerful (which is why hally was so upset about it). and, if FG is town, they have to nightkill her at some point to win since she can't be exed. this suggests that mafia wanted to wipe away FG's role with the janitor while there was maximum uncertainty as to what alignment she is. they could easily have feared her coming back into the thread and obvtowning it up, or being investigated by someone, at which point they would have lost the opportunity to deny town major information by wiping the evidence away.

the more I think about it, the more I think it's plausible that mafia strategically killed FG to deny us information. which would mean FG is town, although I have already argued we should assume she is regardless

[Hally]

where was the scum kill N1 though if nanook was the sk shot and fg was the vig shot

maybe it was blocked or doctored?

I’m a role blocker and I haven’t used my ability.

why not

[Alison]

also, think about it this way. if FG was shot by a vig, it means the mafia was either doctored or roleblocked. we know it's not colin, since he said he's holstered every night. this means that the game setup has: a vig, a role cop, a normal cop, a voyeur, and either a doctor or a roleblocker (most likely a doctor or the roleblocker would have claimed to out maf). that is a metric ton of power to grant town. if we assume the vig doesn't exist, then the doctor doesn't have to exist as well, and town's power role ratio seems to be much more reasonable/realistic.

[ColinIsCool]

So if I do get lynched pay close attention to the way Tony is gunning after me

I'll tell you that I'm going to come to the conclusion that Colin has high scum equity and fits in all the most common teams. I've pointed to posts that align him with Alison, I think he's potentially aligned with you. He's less aligned with Epi, though that's more the case with the spot that Nutella currently occupies.

Does a scum Tony who knows I’m not his teammate gun after me so hard knowing it’s a folly? Only way it seems to make sense to me is if he’s in panic mode and just needs to keep stringing phases together. Maybe that’s where the scumteam is at, maybe not, but remember this whole thing if I get lynched and he outlives me.

[Hally]

have we considered that there's no vig?

kill + clean seems more in line with something a mafia would do than something a town role would do. it's possible that SK shot nanook and mafia shot FG.if we think about it from the perspective of a mafia member, denying the FG flip to us is powerful (which is why hally was so upset about it). and, if FG is town, they have to nightkill her at some point to win since she can't be exed. this suggests that mafia wanted to wipe away FG's role with the janitor while there was maximum uncertainty as to what alignment she is. they could easily have feared her coming back into the thread and obvtowning it up, or being investigated by someone, at which point they would have lost the opportunity to deny town major information by wiping the evidence away.

the more I think about it, the more I think it's plausible that mafia strategically killed FG to deny us information. which would mean FG is town, although I have already argued we should assume she is regardless

it’s possible

i can say with certainty that my priority N1 if i was a wolf would not have been killing fg but other people aren’t me

the reason we thought vig shot i think was because jack daw seems more like a vigilante as a character

[Alison]

according to the rules of the game (listed on the first page), all the scum are already given fake claims. if wisp is scum they do not need to go to extra effort to obtain fake claims - they will have one given to them by the host.

if wisp and LC are on a team together, then hally wouldn't have detected wisp investigating LC's role. so none of those possibilities are likely.

6) Anti town players get fake claims if applicable.

That’s doesn’t say they definitely get one in this game, just that’s it’s a possibility. I usually stay by thinking that nothing is set in stone until I see it in black and white.

i think it is sensible to assume that jack would just give scum players a fake claim rather than some far fetched theory of having a scum role cop so they can steal role cards to fake claim... especially since they can't even claim those role cards or they'll get counterclaimed :P

[Hally]

we know now that characters do tie into alignments because genocide jack is a serial killer and so was pawn

[ColinIsCool]

where was the scum kill N1 though if nanook was the sk shot and fg was the vig shot

maybe it was blocked or doctored?

I’m a role blocker and I haven’t used my ability.

why not

I didn’t use it N1 because I didn’t feel confident about actually hitting an anti-town player (both in terms of my own reads and the numbers) and thought it was more likely I’d block a helpful role. I don’t like to use role blocks until later in the game generally. Haven’t used it yet tonight and coming out kinda makes me an easy target for an anti-town role, but if there’s any way we can engineer an info role to figure me out via my night action, that would help narrow the POE.

[Alison]

have we considered that there's no vig?

kill + clean seems more in line with something a mafia would do than something a town role would do. it's possible that SK shot nanook and mafia shot FG.if we think about it from the perspective of a mafia member, denying the FG flip to us is powerful (which is why hally was so upset about it). and, if FG is town, they have to nightkill her at some point to win since she can't be exed. this suggests that mafia wanted to wipe away FG's role with the janitor while there was maximum uncertainty as to what alignment she is. they could easily have feared her coming back into the thread and obvtowning it up, or being investigated by someone, at which point they would have lost the opportunity to deny town major information by wiping the evidence away.

the more I think about it, the more I think it's plausible that mafia strategically killed FG to deny us information. which would mean FG is town, although I have already argued we should assume she is regardless

it’s possible

i can say with certainty that my priority N1 if i was a wolf would not have been killing fg but other people aren’t me

the reason we thought vig shot i think was because jack daw seems more like a vigilante as a character

if I was a wolf in this game? I don't know who I'd shoot. it would depend heavily on my teammates - in a vacuum I'd just shoot whoever is in the towncore and not part of my team lol. probably I would have shot nanook or something.

but still, if I can sit here and think that it's plausible for the wolf team to want to shoot FG, and also prove that there are concrete benefits from shooting FG on night 1, then we have to take it seriously into account. furthermore, i have argued that power role balance probably means we don't have vig + doctor in addition to all the cops already in the game. so occam's razor really is just that mafia shot + cleaned FG, which is a very mafia effect to have (cleaning a corpse). note that "you don't flip on death" is not really a thematic effect for jack sparrow or an unexcutable role to have.

[Hally]

also, think about it this way. if FG was shot by a vig, it means the mafia was either doctored or roleblocked. we know it's not colin, since he said he's holstered every night. this means that the game setup has: a vig, a role cop, a normal cop, a voyeur, and either a doctor or a roleblocker (most likely a doctor or the roleblocker would have claimed to out maf). that is a metric ton of power to grant town. if we assume the vig doesn't exist, then the doctor doesn't have to exist as well, and town's power role ratio seems to be much more reasonable/realistic.

i’m willing to bet that’s not all the powers town has

i think everyone has a power this game or a role of some sort

this is why i was like scum probably have a godfather who can fool wisp

if town is this high powered scum must have some crazy stuff to balance it

[Hally]

where was the scum kill N1 though if nanook was the sk shot and fg was the vig shot

maybe it was blocked or doctored?

I’m a role blocker and I haven’t used my ability.

why not

I didn’t use it N1 because I didn’t feel confident about actually hitting an anti-town player (both in terms of my own reads and the numbers) and thought it was more likely I’d block a helpful role. I don’t like to use role blocks until later in the game generally. Haven’t used it yet tonight and coming out kinda makes me an easy target for an anti-town role, but if there’s any way we can engineer an info role to figure me out via my night action, that would help narrow the POE.

you don’t have to use it i think

not really sure why you outed if you have no info

[Hally]

normally i’d consider maybe nanook was double tapped but the flavor doesn’t seem to indicate that? so probably not

[ColinIsCool]

as I believe colin is one od the most appealing exes next day phase

My ex would disagree with you there

[ColinIsCool]

where was the scum kill N1 though if nanook was the sk shot and fg was the vig shot

maybe it was blocked or doctored?

I’m a role blocker and I haven’t used my ability.

why not

I didn’t use it N1 because I didn’t feel confident about actually hitting an anti-town player (both in terms of my own reads and the numbers) and thought it was more likely I’d block a helpful role. I don’t like to use role blocks until later in the game generally. Haven’t used it yet tonight and coming out kinda makes me an easy target for an anti-town role, but if there’s any way we can engineer an info role to figure me out via my night action, that would help narrow the POE.

you don’t have to use it i think

not really sure why you outed if you have no info

Feels like I’m about to get fucked up by the town pretty soon so to spare a wasted lynch I’m putting all I got out there.

[ColinIsCool]

A mafioso Colin might have also meant to pocket Alison with that initial "top town read" judgment.

he must have a really bad understanding of my personality if he believes that I am the kind of person who townreads someone just because they townread me

I literally don’t know you at all!

[ColinIsCool]

oh hey, speaking of colin's "top town read" on me. where did that go? I totally forgot he had it, and my last interactions with him have not felt like I was talking to someone who reads me as town the most out of everyone in the game.

@ColinIsCool what happened to that read on me?

I stopped being able to see the logic in your posts when you decided you wanted my head mounted on your wall and kept using a very weird reason (my post to Jay)

[Hally]

what if colin isn’t scum

i can’t say i feel that strongly that he is even though i see the points others are raising

they don’t particularly move me ig and he comes off pretty genuine to me

[KitsuShel]

according to the rules of the game (listed on the first page), all the scum are already given fake claims. if wisp is scum they do not need to go to extra effort to obtain fake claims - they will have one given to them by the host.

if wisp and LC are on a team together, then hally wouldn't have detected wisp investigating LC's role. so none of those possibilities are likely.

6) Anti town players get fake claims if applicable.

That’s doesn’t say they definitely get one in this game, just that’s it’s a possibility. I usually stay by thinking that nothing is set in stone until I see it in black and white.

i think it is sensible to assume that jack would just give scum players a fake claim rather than some far fetched theory of having a scum role cop so they can steal role cards to fake claim... especially since they can't even claim those role cards or they'll get counterclaimed :P

I get that, and I’m definitely leaning that way. I just want to keep an open mind. When you straight lock yourself into something, it doesn’t leave much room for leeway if things go sideways down the line. =)

[Hally]

that being said, finding three scum gets pretty hard if colin isn’t one

[ColinIsCool]

that being said, finding three scum gets pretty hard if colin isn’t one

This is a concern that you all should be feeling!!!!!!

[ColinIsCool]

Tbh 3 scum feels like a lot though. Have we definitively said FG isn’t one? Because NANOOK’s death seems like a logical scum-NK to me

[Millium]

ok what did I miss during the night?

[sabie12]

Tbh 3 scum feels like a lot though. Have we definitively said FG isn’t one? Because NANOOK’s death seems like a logical scum-NK to me

Based on how the post was worded it appeared ad though pawn was the one who killed nanook. Unless jack was super messing with us.

[sabie12]

as I believe colin is one od the most appealing exes next day phase

My ex would disagree with you there

I was going to say something about it but I figured her phone or device must be auto correcting axes to exes for some reason haha.

[ColinIsCool]

Tbh 3 scum feels like a lot though. Have we definitively said FG isn’t one? Because NANOOK’s death seems like a logical scum-NK to me

Based on how the post was worded it appeared ad though pawn was the one who killed nanook. Unless jack was super messing with us.

Ah. Well then.

[KitsuShel]

Tbh 3 scum feels like a lot though. Have we definitively said FG isn’t one? Because NANOOK’s death seems like a logical scum-NK to me

There’s no way of knowing that since the flip was janitored. I definitely got a scum vibe towards EOD, though.

[Millium]

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention]
reminds Colin how strong my ability is, checking you is not useless for me at least
but I also do not believe you decided as town that roleblocking was bad, it just feels theatrical to look townie, "I didnt want to hurt town"

[KitsuShel]

Tbh 3 scum feels like a lot though. Have we definitively said FG isn’t one? Because NANOOK’s death seems like a logical scum-NK to me

There’s no way of knowing that since the flip was janitored. I definitely got a scum vibe towards EOD, though.

Referring to the FG part fo the question.

Sorry for the quick post, I’m at work checking between orders, lol.

[sabie12]

So if wisp sees entire role cards then if he checks a miller would it show they are a miller or just show if there was another power and then a wrong alignment?

[Long Con]

as I believe colin is one od the most appealing exes next day phase

My ex would disagree with you there

I was going to say something about it but I figured her phone or device must be auto correcting axes to exes for some reason haha.

I think it's short for "execute" or "executions".

[Long Con]

So if wisp sees entire role cards then if he checks a miller would it show they are a miller or just show if there was another power and then a wrong alignment?

We can only have theories at this point.

[sabie12]

as I believe colin is one od the most appealing exes next day phase

My ex would disagree with you there

I was going to say something about it but I figured her phone or device must be auto correcting axes to exes for some reason haha.

I think it's short for "execute" or "executions".

Ohhh that makes more sense. I'm not up on all the new fangled terms the kids are using these days.

[ColinIsCool]

@ColinIsCool
reminds Colin how strong my ability is, checking you is not useless for me at least
but I also do not believe you decided as town that roleblocking was bad, it just feels theatrical to look townie, "I didnt want to hurt town"

I’m fairly confident that I haven’t used a night-power role to actually help the town in like ... 10 years. I don’t trust myself.

[Millium]

Pawn pretty much town sided with his kill then did nothing with it

in regards to Funny
1. Her EoD was wolfy
2. Her calling LC town, her counter train, was townie as shit, and super bad if she was a wolf
3. 2 gets completely invalidated because she was apparently lynchproof?...

[Millium]

@ColinIsCool
reminds Colin how strong my ability is, checking you is not useless for me at least
but I also do not believe you decided as town that roleblocking was bad, it just feels theatrical to look townie, "I didnt want to hurt town"

I’m fairly confident that I haven’t used a night-power role to actually help the town in like ... 10 years. I don’t trust myself.

ok boomer

[Long Con]

4. The 15 minutes early thing makes fully knowing her desired outcome difficult

[ColinIsCool]

@ColinIsCool
reminds Colin how strong my ability is, checking you is not useless for me at least
but I also do not believe you decided as town that roleblocking was bad, it just feels theatrical to look townie, "I didnt want to hurt town"

I’m fairly confident that I haven’t used a night-power role to actually help the town in like ... 10 years. I don’t trust myself.

ok boomer

I will have you know I played my first game of Mafia 15 years ago and I am somehow worse than I was when I was ten

[KitsuShel]

i’m willing to bet that’s not all the powers town has

i think everyone has a power this game or a role of some sort

this is why i was like scum probably have a godfather who can fool wisp

if town is this high powered scum must have some crazy stuff to balance it

I’m willing to guess that everyone has a power, until someone steps up and says they’re vanilla.

[Millium]

@ColinIsCool
reminds Colin how strong my ability is, checking you is not useless for me at least
but I also do not believe you decided as town that roleblocking was bad, it just feels theatrical to look townie, "I didnt want to hurt town"

I’m fairly confident that I haven’t used a night-power role to actually help the town in like ... 10 years. I don’t trust myself.

ok boomer

I will have you know I played my first game of Mafia 15 years ago and I am somehow worse than I was when I was ten

wait I'm older than u...

[sabie12]

Pawn pretty much town sided with his kill then did nothing with it

in regards to Funny
1. Her EoD was wolfy
2. Her calling LC town, her counter train, was townie as shit, and super bad if she was a wolf
3. 2 gets completely invalidated because she was apparently lynchproof?...

But the post suggested that Pawn killed nanook who was town.

[Millium]

Pawn pretty much town sided with his kill then did nothing with it

in regards to Funny
1. Her EoD was wolfy
2. Her calling LC town, her counter train, was townie as shit, and super bad if she was a wolf
3. 2 gets completely invalidated because she was apparently lynchproof?...

But the post suggested that Pawn killed nanook who was town.

I am not talking about Nanook in the slightest
I know what the flavor says about Nanook's death

[sabie12]

Pawn pretty much town sided with his kill then did nothing with it

in regards to Funny
1. Her EoD was wolfy
2. Her calling LC town, her counter train, was townie as shit, and super bad if she was a wolf
3. 2 gets completely invalidated because she was apparently lynchproof?...

But the post suggested that Pawn killed nanook who was town.

I am not talking about Nanook in the slightest
I know what the flavor says about Nanook's death

Maybe I misunderstood your post then. I thought you were saying pawn killed fg. Do you think Jack is messing with us and the wording is misleading on purpose?