Radiohead Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Alison]

try godfathering a role flip you scumbag

[Alison]

i think that the point was that you could have worded it in a bit more neutral way, for example

"spritiyo's third ability does XYZ" instead of telling us that you asked sloonei about this and he told you that

cuz it can give an angleshooty read, since if you were mafia, chances are you wouldnt ask him, you would just know, so you would have said the more neutral thing instead of lying that you asked him specifically just now

If I was mafia I would totally lie about asking sloonei lol

[Oddmerta]

i think that the point was that you could have worded it in a bit more neutral way, for example

"spritiyo's third ability does XYZ" instead of telling us that you asked sloonei about this and he told you that

cuz it can give an angleshooty read, since if you were mafia, chances are you wouldnt ask him, you would just know, so you would have said the more neutral thing instead of lying that you asked him specifically just now

If I was mafia I would totally lie about asking sloonei lol

I just Sloonei who the mafia as soon as the game started, it's a lot easier that way

[Oddmerta]

*asked

[Justplayingitcool]

Spoiler: show

You and dr wilgy probably are with your votes outside the main wagons to have mobility capacity in case spirityo is a town or you are simply trying to initiate independent pushes to lynch outside Tim or spirityo.

Poison may be trying the same situation from a more comfortable position such as deepwolf. Meh.

That makes me think that one of the two wagons is definitely mafia and it's practically very reliable to say that the remaining wagon is too.

I'm going to ask you some questions.

Where would you like my vote to be among the people who are being voted for except for the one you are voting for?

Where would you not like my vote to be among the people being voted for?

Where would you not like my vote to be among the people being voted for (multiple answers apply here)?

And most importantly, where would you say Samu is mafia based on his vote if it is putted in the people being voted for?

Before I get to your questions...which are hard because I really haven't thought about them...I can think of a very good reason why I might be inclined to prefer the chop being outside of me and Sprityo...particularly if it isn't Sprityo. I assume you can guess what that reason is. That's why I find your "not liking" where my second vote is to be a bit weird.

Anyway...

"Where would you like my vote to be among the people who are being voted for except for the one you are voting for?"

Since "the people being voted for are me and Sprityo if you don't wanna vote Sprityo with me I'd rather you not vote at all, vote a couple vanity wagons, vote yourself, vote Sloonei...whatever.

"Where would you not like my vote to be among the people being voted for?"

Tough one. I'll go with: among the people being voted for I'd rather your vote was not on me.

"Where would you not like my vote to be among the people being voted for (multiple answers apply here)?"

I think JPIC should self resolve so chopping him is a waste of town KP before he does, so don't vote there.

"And most importantly, where would you say Samu is mafia based on his vote if it is putted in the people being voted for? "

This may be an unfortunate answer, but I am unlikely to day you are mafia based on where you put your votes under the circumstances. I think one should be on Sprityo, and the other should be parked somewhere reasonably harmless, but I'm not gonna say that not agreeing on that would make you a wolf.

I was doing a bad case cause i dont know the two.votes condition. But i am.thankfull thar i ask you that questions cause a bad reason.

Sometimes bad reasons carry to.good things.

I dont like the first inconclusive answer.

Second is a easy wifom answer.

I can see in third your thought that is similar to.mac. but no totally agree with that but it is more personal than something thar would define a role. Some credit.

Fourth and the bait, What do you think, or rather, what readings do you have of the players who have their vote somewhere harmless?

This is difficult to sort, because of Sloonei saying that the second vote HAS TO BE cast. For me, I really think Sprityo is the best chop, so I am inclined to put my second vote somewhere harmless. For people who think "well, I would happily chop Sprityo or Tim" it would seem obvious to put their two votes on the two of us. For people who think "well, one of the people visiting Mac was a wolf and I can't decide between Sprit and Nanook" it would make sense for them to just vote both and let others decide.

I think people with two votes they have to cast parking BOTH of them out in the vanity wagon wilderness would be pretty suspect.

It's impossible to me to not have a poe or a list of 2-3 scums to lynch this day, without the mac's visitors.

Sorry but i cant follow that thought of yours, sounds scummy to me.

What, why does that sound scummy? Surely the mechanically correct play is to let the cop survive?

Nono, i think i didnt saíd that part was scummy

Ok, I might have misunderstood. What were you trying to say was scummy because I don't get it

[Justplayingitcool]

We have 20 players...

Who is NOT the third party?

Gimme ONE name...

Well, I doubt any of the top three towncore (hally, Mac and Alison) are the 3P. In my experience, the 3P is usually in that good balance of just doing enough to be considered towny, but not too much in drawing the NK

[Alison]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] i just remembered that nutella was super anti 3p-hunting and argued that the 3p should be left alone. This goes with my theory about nutella seeing a strong town forming and wanting the 3p to use their abilities to break it up. So i don't think the juliets read was a 3p hunt.

[tutuu]

i think that the point was that you could have worded it in a bit more neutral way, for example

"spritiyo's third ability does XYZ" instead of telling us that you asked sloonei about this and he told you that

cuz it can give an angleshooty read, since if you were mafia, chances are you wouldnt ask him, you would just know, so you would have said the more neutral thing instead of lying that you asked him specifically just now

If I was mafia I would totally lie about asking sloonei lol

well most people wouldnt :P

if i was sloonei i wouldnt have responded to ur question anyway since this is something that concerns everyone, i would elaborate about it itt

syndicate is kinda casual in terms of angleshoot-y stuff so whatever, im not gonna push on this further. but most people do perceive this as uncomfortable just letting u know!

[Justplayingitcool]

mafia so salty they resort to ddosing

Clearly the mafia witnessed that I was catching up and was trying to do everything in their power to prevent me from accomplishing my goals

[tutuu]

clearly!

[Justplayingitcool]

We have 20 players...

Who is NOT the third party?

Gimme ONE name...

Well, I doubt any of the top three towncore (hally, Mac and Alison) are the 3P. In my experience, the 3P is usually in that good balance of just doing enough to be considered towny, but not too much in drawing the NK

In addition, the 3p are probably going to scumside soon enough because wolves are getting r e k t . Unless the rogue can win with either alignment, which I kinda doubt

[Oddmerta]

We have 20 players...

Who is NOT the third party?

Gimme ONE name...

Well, I doubt any of the top three towncore (hally, Mac and Alison) are the 3P. In my experience, the 3P is usually in that good balance of just doing enough to be considered towny, but not too much in drawing the NK

In addition, the 3p are probably going to scumside soon enough because wolves are getting r e k t . Unless the rogue can win with either alignment, which I kinda doubt

Hint hint

[Justplayingitcool]

We have 20 players...

Who is NOT the third party?

Gimme ONE name...

Well, I doubt any of the top three towncore (hally, Mac and Alison) are the 3P. In my experience, the 3P is usually in that good balance of just doing enough to be considered towny, but not too much in drawing the NK

In addition, the 3p are probably going to scumside soon enough because wolves are getting r e k t . Unless the rogue can win with either alignment, which I kinda doubt

Hint hint

I'm just stating a logical fact, my friend!

[Alison]

i think the way we catch the third party is to just scumhunt as normal. I don't see the need for special tactics. third parties face all the same challenges as regular wolves face in terms of getting townread, and are vulnerable to all the same tells other than interaction tells. I am quite happy with my townreads so to my mind there is a good chance the 3P is sitting somewhere in the POE praying for the mafia to make a miraculous comeback.

[tutuu]

mafia pls dont kill me im your 3p and im kinda desperate and im hoping this ballsy open claim will be written off as being part of my personality and brushed aside

[tutuu]

can you please stop sucking so much tyia

[Justplayingitcool]

mafia pls dont kill me im your 3p and im kinda desperate and im hoping this ballsy open claim will be written off as being part of my personality and brushed aside

[Poison]

Olay, since I was flodding the thread with my catch ups, I decided to read up. [Ngl, I thought I'll chill and catch up on what I left before but even in the night phase I have to catch up sigh]

I'm yet to read 7 more pages but I need to post these or I'll forget what I feel exactly.

1. Okay, I would agree that I don't think tim can be the scum here with all push on sprityo, but I can very well see them as a 3p. They have been fairly towny all day 2 but Their role doesn't make sense at all. We can totally guess it on our own, the percentages I mean, and the fact that their role would be increasing with passing time.

2. Nanook seems more like a scum to me than a 3p. Because in my theory, the possibilities of 3p are higher for tim and odd here. Nanook looks bad with their weird approach to the game, and things which I totally don't find logical about his posts were how they said they are spewed town after nutella lynch and similat stuffs. Also. When people are sussing them, they ain't doing much to prove their innocence, which I find extremely scummy.

3. I probably saw someone mentioning odd being a jester, I will be ready to even agree with that, but no way in the world I'll agree with a town read on him based on his posts. I would only accept him as town if he is either mech cleared or something along the line.

4. I have problem with a few people here, first dizzy, who has been constantly read town, secondly ted. I think we should look into these two people however we do.

5. JPIC can easily be scum cop. It would make more sense why he went for Mac.

[Poison]

I forgot to mention Dya in my ted, dizzy group.

[juliets]

hally i think juliets is implying she knows what song spirit is?

Does this post have any relevance? Like I mean, does this mean anything now that Sprit has flipped?

Good morning, I'm catching up. My thought about sprityo's song being a wolfy song doesn't have any relevance now that sprityo has flipped. It was just a thought I had when reading through his posts.

[Poison]

Alison and I have now bussed two partners and will be endgaming as mafia again. Enjoy.

If this ever becomes a truth, I'll stop trusting myself.

[Poison]

The nature of my postcap being that it hit me with 50% means that there is an outside chance that it is a role that cumulatively destroys my ability to post. I am concerned that I may have another 50% tomorrow and so on. If that is the case then I would say that it is certainly not a town role. It would be a strange 3p role and much more likely a mafia role. In fact post capping in general is a strange 3p ability. Halving the top town poster's ability to post on night 1 is also just incredibly unlikely to ever be a town move.

Nanook, when you targeted me I presume that you didn't get an extra vote? Do you get notified of whether you get an extra vote? Apologies if you've already said this I can't remember if you have or not.

Nanook from your perspective JPIC is outed mafia now yes? JPIC you believe Nanook is outed mafia too right?

Okay.. Uh.. Weird thought, but these percentages reminds me of tim, and I feel like this can easily be tim' s role and not what he claims. This makes more sense.

[juliets]

I still think, even though it's OGI, that we should be very fearful of the rogue. It is not often that a host makes a point of saying that it's town vs. mafia vs. rogue so bluntly. And he's made it pretty clear we just have ONE rogue too. 3p is likely to be far stronger when there is just one than when there are multiple 3p. It's possibly a demo man or something.

i definitely consider the rogue a huge threat. it’s just hard to know what to do about it now because it’s kinda impossible to hunt for 3P with so many players. idk how we catch 3P outside of mech. ig just keep yeeting not towny ppl but like if i was 3P i’d probably look like town. idk how others would play it though

Do you really not have tactics for 3p hunting?

I'll give you a hint. When you flip mafia that have good hunting skills, look at who they were adamant on.

Something like Nutella's push on Juliets is a big red flag.

It might be a big red flag if nutella had shown in recent games that she reads me well. She has not. Please see Corona Virus Mafia.

[Justplayingitcool]

The nature of my postcap being that it hit me with 50% means that there is an outside chance that it is a role that cumulatively destroys my ability to post. I am concerned that I may have another 50% tomorrow and so on. If that is the case then I would say that it is certainly not a town role. It would be a strange 3p role and much more likely a mafia role. In fact post capping in general is a strange 3p ability. Halving the top town poster's ability to post on night 1 is also just incredibly unlikely to ever be a town move.

Nanook, when you targeted me I presume that you didn't get an extra vote? Do you get notified of whether you get an extra vote? Apologies if you've already said this I can't remember if you have or not.

Nanook from your perspective JPIC is outed mafia now yes? JPIC you believe Nanook is outed mafia too right?

Okay.. Uh.. Weird thought, but these percentages reminds me of tim, and I feel like this can easily be tim' s role and not what he claims. This makes more sense.

Then why was Tim not spotted in hally's watch?

[Poison]

Make another tier between lock town and town lean, call it near lock, put me, poison and radishes in it

look at this shit rofl

how do people not townread this stuff? and oddmerta has been producing posts like this all game. this is why i townshielded him even before sprit spewed him town

Ok I can agree that this post is towny but still think they can be anti town. The fact that sprityo pushed him gives him + points a bit but that doesn't make him lock town or anything tbh. Specially when he is not being towny enough.

[Poison]

The nature of my postcap being that it hit me with 50% means that there is an outside chance that it is a role that cumulatively destroys my ability to post. I am concerned that I may have another 50% tomorrow and so on. If that is the case then I would say that it is certainly not a town role. It would be a strange 3p role and much more likely a mafia role. In fact post capping in general is a strange 3p ability. Halving the top town poster's ability to post on night 1 is also just incredibly unlikely to ever be a town move.

Nanook, when you targeted me I presume that you didn't get an extra vote? Do you get notified of whether you get an extra vote? Apologies if you've already said this I can't remember if you have or not.

Nanook from your perspective JPIC is outed mafia now yes? JPIC you believe Nanook is outed mafia too right?

Okay.. Uh.. Weird thought, but these percentages reminds me of tim, and I feel like this can easily be tim' s role and not what he claims. This makes more sense.

Then why was Tim not spotted in hally's watch?

I'm just giving a theory, I don't know the answer to your question. I might be wrong with my theory but idk that feels to make more sense to me.

[Oddmerta]

Poison relax, I am town so don't worry about me

[Justplayingitcool]

The nature of my postcap being that it hit me with 50% means that there is an outside chance that it is a role that cumulatively destroys my ability to post. I am concerned that I may have another 50% tomorrow and so on. If that is the case then I would say that it is certainly not a town role. It would be a strange 3p role and much more likely a mafia role. In fact post capping in general is a strange 3p ability. Halving the top town poster's ability to post on night 1 is also just incredibly unlikely to ever be a town move.

Nanook, when you targeted me I presume that you didn't get an extra vote? Do you get notified of whether you get an extra vote? Apologies if you've already said this I can't remember if you have or not.

Nanook from your perspective JPIC is outed mafia now yes? JPIC you believe Nanook is outed mafia too right?

Okay.. Uh.. Weird thought, but these percentages reminds me of tim, and I feel like this can easily be tim' s role and not what he claims. This makes more sense.

Then why was Tim not spotted in hally's watch?

I'm just giving a theory, I don't know the answer to your question. I might be wrong with my theory but idk that feels to make more sense to me.

Okay, but no offense, the theory is sort of irrelevant considering Tim wasn't on the watch.

[Poison]

I am a little concerned that Ted saying I had no mech was TMI given Sprityo's flip

Wouldn't the wolves be wanting to emphasize your mech, knowing they had misdirected it though?

So, Sprit sabotaged your mech. Later in the day there's some discussion over whether you had mech feeding your reads. If Ted is a wolf, and he knows that any mech you have is bad wouldn't he be saying "oh, yeah, he probably has mech, better follow that...let's kill Tim"?

If your mech is polluted the wolves want to push that you have mech, not deny it.

Look, the thing is, scum!ted is very much confident most of the time and uses TMIs now and then in the game. Can you please elaborate on what you are saying exactly, I might be able to contribute here, but I do not understand your statement fully.

[Poison]

Poison relax, I am town so don't worry about me

Actually I might keep you aside for a tiny period of time, cause I do not see much justifications on my thoughts about you. Cause I might actually be paranoid at some point. But I still have doubts with you.

[Poison]

That'd make sense if I wasn't pushing Sprityo and softened my read on you by the time that he made that comment

Maybe. I'm thinking that by that point your read on Sprityo was no longer something they were giving much thought to since Sprityo was dead man walking...or was this earlier than I'm thinking?

Not sure how that's really relevant to your arguing against my point?

My point is that Ted somehow knew or had a feeling I had no mech. I don't think I had made that very clear. Everyone that I town read assumed that I did in fact have some sort of mech. I had stopped pushing you by the time that he made that comment. So why would mafia do what you're suggesting in that context? It'd be even more outing.

I dunno man...I never really had any feeling that you had mech. I'm not sure Ted having that feeling is particularly TMIish, though maybe. I figured you were using mech, but the mech you were using was a combination of Hally's mech and you knowing you got post capped. I was kinda mystified by the people who really strongly assumed that you had additional mech of some sort.

I'm not even sure that I believe he had enough of an understanding of the threadstate to say that "I'm 80% sure etc." It's clearly demonstrated tbh because his immediate comment after is to say that he's going to go read my plan.

He in essence said "Mac has no mech, I have no reason for thinking this and now i will go and read his post".

It can be actually interesting that you say you were mystified by the people who thought I had additional mech because you might actually have insight into TMI the other direction.

I ABSOLUTELY have TMI.

Your big four suspects were people who came from Hally's mech...and ME, who I have known all day you were wrong about so that obviously isn't mech based.

Keep tunneling, there's gotta be a pony in there somewhere.

This post makes me wanna townread him.

[Poison]

I still think, even though it's OGI, that we should be very fearful of the rogue. It is not often that a host makes a point of saying that it's town vs. mafia vs. rogue so bluntly. And he's made it pretty clear we just have ONE rogue too. 3p is likely to be far stronger when there is just one than when there are multiple 3p. It's possibly a demo man or something.

I agree with this.

[Long Con]

We have 20 players...

Who is NOT the third party?

Gimme ONE name...

Well, I doubt any of the top three towncore (hally, Mac and Alison) are the 3P. In my experience, the 3P is usually in that good balance of just doing enough to be considered towny, but not too much in drawing the NK

In addition, the 3p are probably going to scumside soon enough because wolves are getting r e k t . Unless the rogue can win with either alignment, which I kinda doubt

You think that the 3p must be Last Man Standing? Why? The majority of 3p roles I've seen can win with either alignment, or have a separate win con.

So if the wolves are getting r e k t, then it's likely that the 3p will townside.

[Justplayingitcool]

We have 20 players...

Who is NOT the third party?

Gimme ONE name...

Well, I doubt any of the top three towncore (hally, Mac and Alison) are the 3P. In my experience, the 3P is usually in that good balance of just doing enough to be considered towny, but not too much in drawing the NK

In addition, the 3p are probably going to scumside soon enough because wolves are getting r e k t . Unless the rogue can win with either alignment, which I kinda doubt

You think that the 3p must be Last Man Standing? Why? The majority of 3p roles I've seen can win with either alignment, or have a separate win con.

So if the wolves are getting r e k t, then it's likely that the 3p will townside.

Just from the name rogue, idk it just implied to me that they wouldn’t side with either

[TonyStarkPrime]

okay I forgot mafia existed and now day ends soon someone please fill me in on everything

This seems like a townish entrance

thank you but I have bad news on your life expectancy

[Justplayingitcool]

okay I forgot mafia existed and now day ends soon someone please fill me in on everything

This seems like a townish entrance

thank you but I have bad news on your life expectancy

i prefer good news!

[Poison]

I prefer less pages to read.

[tutuu]

I prefer less pages to read.

i personally dont read posts longer than 3 lines

[Justplayingitcool]

I prefer less pages to read.

i personally dont read posts longer than 3 lines

I personally don’t read

[Poison]

The existence of a 3p gives the mafia who are prone to actually hunting an out for doing so. Look at who they push.

but that doesn’t mean they’re correct

also they can push town too. but ig that’s not genuine hunting. but they don’t know if they’re pushing 3p or town. idk. i get your point though

Mindmeld.

Okay. What I feel about 3ps here is that, both scum and town feels threat from them. Even if they are a one man/ many.

I personally would like to believe this rogue is a single person.

But 3ps generally have wincon to either survive till the end or some specific wincon as per the game. More than often they side with scum in my opinion. But tbh, if there wincon is to survive to the end, they would try to side with town this game. Cause look at the scenerio. We got 2 scums and no town casualities. If that's the case, they would probably be towny or at least try to be town sided, lynching scums.

But, if their initial plan was something else, then I think they would have messed up and their transition would be easy to identify.

Now, if their wincon is not at all surviving the game, cause I feel like this game is a little too big for a single survivor, I think they would be having specific wincon maybe to lynch/kill someone? Or jester? Although I don't think jester would be a good fit for the name of rogue.

If that 3p has a KP, I assume their KP either failed N1 or they do not have one or they probably have even night kills?

I know these are pretty basic stuffs but I think the possibilities won't go outside of this, even if they did maybe a slightly outside of this.

Now all we have to do is try to match up actions of players and the possibilities.

[Poison]

I demand a break. This is night phase. Come on.

[Poison]

Wait, can anyone please post the claims, all of it?

[Oddmerta]

The title Rogue in particular makes me thinks of stealth and thievery

[Hally]

i am like 80% sure mac doesn't actually have anything mechanically relevant to his assertions and just wants to lead the yeets before he dies in the hopes that he's right

but i will still look back and see who he wants gone first etc etc

Ted what made you think that I didn't have anything mechanically relevant to my assertions?

This just seems like an attempt to slightly undermine my credibility from a place of knowing more than you should. It's also strange that you state this before you even read who I was pushing etc.

When does the host ever tell a player “yeah so about 2 negative actions were performed on you”

It doesn’t come from a place of knowing more because if I knew 2 mafia of mine were visiting you, I wouldn’t have even thought about you lying about it, but more or less curious as to how you knew about it. I’d be putting myself in unnecessary corners when I can just push on how obvious jpic seemed at that time and it’d be more effective than directly dealing with your paranoia.

But it doesn’t even matter as it was mostly a joke anyway

Bullsuit, you are mafia!

[Hally]

That was supposed to say “and now we’re friends” but it’s funnier with the hanging ending

lol

[Hally]

Oddmerta do you have any opinions on LongCon or Dizzy?

Dyslexicon is scum, useless trash, the sooner they are gone the better. I tagged them earlier asking who they were voting for and I got deliberately ignored me.


Long Con is ok, keep them around for the timebeing

tone it down a notch man

it's only game why you hef to be mad

I'm just trying to bait Dyslexicon into showing up and doing something

protip: baiting him by calling him trash won’t work. he’ll show up when he wants

[juliets]

The title Rogue in particular makes me thinks of stealth and thievery

It's interesting, I looked up Rogue on MU and the definition of the role is:

The Rogue may target another player every night and copy their night action, allowing the Rogue to use it the next night.

which is a stealth/thievery kind of thing. It just really doesn't make sense to me though in a game where we already have a role that can copy the abilities of the dead (MRs claimed role) but maybe I'm thinking about that wrong.

[Oddmerta]

Here's what's going to happen, jpic gets voted tomorrow (if vigi isn't shooting him right now) and he flips mafia rolecop but not a postcapper. so that leaves us with Nanook to get killed next because he must be the postcapper, he flips town and a spotter like he says he is. This is the part when we all start to suspect Mac, our glorious town leader. "omg he must be lying about being postcapped, why would he do that? This cannot be, maybe he was scum all along, hang on a second...... Hally, they set this whole thing up. What a brilliant mastermind, hellbussing so many teammates like that but there's one thing they didn't count on and thar is us townies being super smart and figuring it out. Let's vote Hally" then Hally flips town and that leaves us with Mac, the evil mastermind, the core of cores left as the only possibility. Lying about being postcapped, we all believed it. (there will be a lot of dead townies by this stage of the story) things are rough now, tensions are high there's no way we can ignore this evidence and we vote up MacDougall. He flips town

It was timsup2nothing all along, he was the rogue. Undetectable by watchers, gaining power from stealng posts, his fakeclaim complete and now there is nobody left to stop him because there was always someone that had to be voted instead of him, always a townie that had to be NK'd instead of him and now it's too late, he has stolen enough power to win the game. GG

[TonyStarkPrime]

The title Rogue in particular makes me thinks of stealth and thievery

It's interesting, I looked up Rogue on MU and the definition of the role is:

The Rogue may target another player every night and copy their night action, allowing the Rogue to use it the next night.

which is a stealth/thievery kind of thing. It just really doesn't make sense to me though in a game where we already have a role that can copy the abilities of the dead (MRs claimed role) but maybe I'm thinking about that wrong.

yeah I don't think that's exactly what we're dealing with here but MR could theoretically be 3p

[Hally]

The nature of my postcap being that it hit me with 50% means that there is an outside chance that it is a role that cumulatively destroys my ability to post. I am concerned that I may have another 50% tomorrow and so on. If that is the case then I would say that it is certainly not a town role. It would be a strange 3p role and much more likely a mafia role. In fact post capping in general is a strange 3p ability. Halving the top town poster's ability to post on night 1 is also just incredibly unlikely to ever be a town move.

Nanook, when you targeted me I presume that you didn't get an extra vote? Do you get notified of whether you get an extra vote? Apologies if you've already said this I can't remember if you have or not.

Nanook from your perspective JPIC is outed mafia now yes? JPIC you believe Nanook is outed mafia too right?

Okay.. Uh.. Weird thought, but these percentages reminds me of tim, and I feel like this can easily be tim' s role and not what he claims. This makes more sense.

it has nothing to do with tim’s role