X-Men [ENDGAME]

[2 Stupid Dogs]

And also, were you really against lynching someone before you replaced into the game???

[Gunther]

Well, this is them:

Sebastian Shaw (6), Polaris (7), Bullzeye (8), Longshot (10)

Polaris obviously was a baddie. Of the three left, I think Shaw is bad for sure. Longshot I waffle on, and I am least suspicious of Bullz. This vote was somewhat damning, but one vote is not the only thing, the totality of his game makes me think he is less likely to be bad.

I agree mostly with what you say about Bullz...except that it wasn't just this vote. His vote in the Marrow lynch is suspicious to me as well. At one point Marrow had 2 votes:

Deadpool
3
Phoenix (4), Longshot (7), Shadowcat (9)
27%

Marrow
2
Hawkeye (2), Banshee (5)
18%

Phoenix
4
Sebastian Shaw (3), The Vision (6), Bullzeye (8), Deadpool (10)
36%

So, after Banshee put the 2nd vote on Marrow, Marrow had 2 votes to Deadpool and Phoenix's 1. Then Vision put a 2nd vote on Phoenix and Longshot a 2nd on Deadpool. Then, Bullzeye landed a 3rd vote on Phoenix....putting her ahead of Marrow.

First off, nobody really voted Marrow in her lynch. Was everyone trying to save her? That was my first day back in the game and I'd decided that since I'd been dead for over half the game, perhaps it'd be better to try to find fresh suspicions rather than hold onto the two I had based on the run up to night 3 and immediately after I died. That didn't work out too well for me since I didn't have the time or energy to read through the entire thread properly so I stuck with my vague Phoenix suspicion. I'll happily admit that since she got killed by the baddies I was almost definitely wrong to suspect her and my vote might have been better placed somewhere else.

Add that to Bullzeye's very shady looking vote yesterday, and we might be looking at a rezzed brotherhood.

I'm also interested in revisiting my suspicion of Rasputin today.

Can you explain why my vote is shady? I mean let's not kid ourselves, it's not like there was anything resembling a big case against Polaris. At least two of the votes on her didn't make sense and there was basically no discussion at all. It was essentially a fluke and I wouldn't be surprised if there were baddies among her voters as well trying to distance themselves. With no idea at all of Polaris' allegiance, I saw Spiral make a vote for her based on things I found intriguing and decided to investigate, only to see that they hadn't actually happened. I pointed this out, he admitted to the mistake, but the vote stayed. That looked to me like a lazy attempt to justify a throwaway vote, and made me think Spiral could be bad. So I voted Spiral. If his vote hadn't been for a baddie I bet others would've called him out for it as well.

I'll be looking in several directions today, not just Spiral voters. I probably will look at at least one or two, but Polaris can't have that many teammates left so I doubt they all voted in the same place.

Your vote looked shady to me for two reasons. First, it was very flip floppy on the subject of Polaris. It sounded like you were trying to cover your tracks in preparation for either lynch outcome. If Polaris is lynched, you could say that you didn't trust her. When you add that to the timing of the vote (you tied it up), and it just seems funky to me.

And you honestly think that any of the Polaris voters could be team mates??? I don't see that as possible at this stage of the game. I mean, at most, the Brotherhood has 3 players left (assuming Sabertooth is gone and it seems likely since Pyro has taken over the NKs), and like you said it was a strange lynch with very limited discussion. It doesn't make sense to me Polaris's team mates would be chucking him under the bus like that with a lack of any damning evidence.

[Gunther]

I'm also interested in revisiting my suspicion of Rasputin today.

"Revisiting"? Your prior suspicion of me was based on me suspecting you because we disagreed on something we both currently agree upon. You can have a new (wrong) suspicion of me, but revisiting the old one seems kinda pointless.

Revisting, yes. I've been suspicious of you for most of the game now, but I had let up on it after realizing that my primary theory of the game was completely wrong. My suspicion of you was not just a No U as you say here. Your lynch record was a big part of it, too. I outlined that several days ago in a post. Your lynch record continues to look strange to me, so I am revisiting it.

Don't forget to include Rasputin into that group of Spiral voters. He voted for Spiral, too, but he "forgot" to vote in the poll.

I do think for today's purposes of suspicion, we should count my vote as having gone to Spiral. It's who I intended to vote for, so that's fair. But what you're implying with those quotation marks doesn't make even the vaguest sort of sense.

No matter what my role or alignment, pretending to forget could ONLY have made me look bad. In fact, if I were bad and had voted, I'd have saved a teammate, so it would greatly behooved me to not do that.

So yes, as outlandish as it may sound, I actually forgot.

Again, if anyone wants to suspect me, I'm fine with it. I'm happy to argue about it, and I think my thread behavior and factual evidence from the game refute it. But if you're going to suspect me, at least do me the courtesy of having a good, real, not-made-up reason for doing so.

Here you are trying to dismiss legitimate suspicion as something that's just bogus or made up. Yes, maybe you did just legitmately forgot to vote in the poll. That's fair. But you are really playing up your contributions to the game. Your "thread behavior and factual evidence" doesn't point to you being a being a solid civvie....not at all. The fact that you would try to convince anyone of that is "pingy" as the kids say.

[2 Stupid Dogs]

The thing that gives me pause on Mikhail is that he was targeted for a NK by the baddies. :/

[Bullzeye]

Your vote looked shady to me for two reasons. First, it was very flip floppy on the subject of Polaris. It sounded like you were trying to cover your tracks in preparation for either lynch outcome. If Polaris is lynched, you could say that you didn't trust her. When you add that to the timing of the vote (you tied it up), and it just seems funky to me.

I'm not gonna say I didn't trust her. I didn't, to be fair, but nor did I distrust her. I didn't have a strong opinion about her at all, and if I hadn't voted Spiral at the time I don't know if I'd have voted Polaris instead. So yeah I was flip floppy. I tied it up deliberately (and even said I was doing so) because Spiral's actions seemed suspicious and Polaris hadn't drawn my attention at all. It was a mistake, but at this stage of the game I wouldn't be so blatant about saving a teammate.

And you honestly think that any of the Polaris voters could be team mates??? I don't see that as possible at this stage of the game. I mean, at most, the Brotherhood has 3 players left (assuming Sabertooth is gone and it seems likely since Pyro has taken over the NKs), and like you said it was a strange lynch with very limited discussion. It doesn't make sense to me Polaris's team mates would be chucking him under the bus like that with a lack of any damning evidence.

Do you think they all didn't vote for her? It was only Polaris and Spiral that got any votes yesterday, though four people missed the vote. If no baddies missed the vote and all tried to save Polaris, that'd mean every Spiral voter was bad. Perhaps one or two missed the vote/couldn't vote due to being silenced. Longshot and Shaw could both be bad I suppose, I will be looking at them in a sec anyway. I also want to read through Polaris herself and see if anything interesting comes up in that.

[Rachel Green]

So was Spiral good? I may have missed that. I'm not going to say I'm sure he is bad because I'm not but I don't think anything happened to prove he was good either. Correct me if I am wrong.

This is a surprisingly good point. I actually hadn't thought of it myself. You came into the day my top suspect because of your vote, and I still may go that way. Your reason for your vote (below) is very pingy to me, even though I guess I appreciate the trust.

I have just skimmed the thread becasue i have had no time but I didn't want to miss another vote. I'm going to go with Spiral because mikhail who I trust would have voted him and not Polaris.

Take some responsibility!

I only had time to skim through the thread which I need to rectify before the next vote. My vote for you Spiral is I saw Polaris as slightly less suspicious than you. I probably should have just not voted having not had time to read in detail the parts I missed when out of town and so really wasn't totally sold on you either.

This just read as weird to me. The parts I put in green seem like kind of a cop-out. That may just be me, idk. You didn't have time to read? Literally nothing happened in the thread the whole day.

I did not mean to not take responsibility. It was my decision - totally my decision - to go with Spiral. I do and always have taken responsibility for my vote and should have added that to my vote post.

I am at my parents. They live a long way from me so when I go see them we are doing things all the time which makes my time very limited. As I said, I skimmed the thread and made a decision to vote based partly on my own gut and cemented by considering how someone else voted. My decision, my accountability. I could have not voted as 4 other people did because I usually don't vote just on my gut and how someone else voted. Another option as I think back on it would have been to vote for myself. All of this is just to say I was more wobbly about this vote than others I have made.

I understand why there are people who want to look at me and I welcome that, though looking at the voters for Spiral does not make sense to me unless you know for sure that Spiral is good.

[Gunther]

The thing that gives me pause on Mikhail is that he was targeted for a NK by the baddies. :/

He was? When? I thought he was targeted by The Sentinels or Apocalypse? I don't remember him being targeted by the Brotherhood.

[Gunther]

Your vote looked shady to me for two reasons. First, it was very flip floppy on the subject of Polaris. It sounded like you were trying to cover your tracks in preparation for either lynch outcome. If Polaris is lynched, you could say that you didn't trust her. When you add that to the timing of the vote (you tied it up), and it just seems funky to me.

I'm not gonna say I didn't trust her. I didn't, to be fair, but nor did I distrust her. I didn't have a strong opinion about her at all, and if I hadn't voted Spiral at the time I don't know if I'd have voted Polaris instead. So yeah I was flip floppy. I tied it up deliberately (and even said I was doing so) because Spiral's actions seemed suspicious and Polaris hadn't drawn my attention at all. It was a mistake, but at this stage of the game I wouldn't be so blatant about saving a teammate.

And you honestly think that any of the Polaris voters could be team mates??? I don't see that as possible at this stage of the game. I mean, at most, the Brotherhood has 3 players left (assuming Sabertooth is gone and it seems likely since Pyro has taken over the NKs), and like you said it was a strange lynch with very limited discussion. It doesn't make sense to me Polaris's team mates would be chucking him under the bus like that with a lack of any damning evidence.

Do you think they all didn't vote for her? It was only Polaris and Spiral that got any votes yesterday, though four people missed the vote. If no baddies missed the vote and all tried to save Polaris, that'd mean every Spiral voter was bad. Perhaps one or two missed the vote/couldn't vote due to being silenced. Longshot and Shaw could both be bad I suppose, I will be looking at them in a sec anyway. I also want to read through Polaris herself and see if anything interesting comes up in that.

I think the remaining brotherhood members either voted for Spiral or missed the vote. If there had been late votes thrown onto Polaris other than White Queen, I might be able to see that being the case. But Polaris had 3 votes before Spiral had even 1. Then Spiral got 3 votes to tie it up. Now somewhere in there White Queen switched her vote over, but I think that's pretty much irrelevant as far as this discussion goes. I don't see brotherhood voting for Polaris yesterday.

[Gunther]

So was Spiral good? I may have missed that. I'm not going to say I'm sure he is bad because I'm not but I don't think anything happened to prove he was good either. Correct me if I am wrong.

This is a surprisingly good point. I actually hadn't thought of it myself. You came into the day my top suspect because of your vote, and I still may go that way. Your reason for your vote (below) is very pingy to me, even though I guess I appreciate the trust.

I have just skimmed the thread becasue i have had no time but I didn't want to miss another vote. I'm going to go with Spiral because mikhail who I trust would have voted him and not Polaris.

Take some responsibility!

I only had time to skim through the thread which I need to rectify before the next vote. My vote for you Spiral is I saw Polaris as slightly less suspicious than you. I probably should have just not voted having not had time to read in detail the parts I missed when out of town and so really wasn't totally sold on you either.

This just read as weird to me. The parts I put in green seem like kind of a cop-out. That may just be me, idk. You didn't have time to read? Literally nothing happened in the thread the whole day.

I did not mean to not take responsibility. It was my decision - totally my decision - to go with Spiral. I do and always have taken responsibility for my vote and should have added that to my vote post.

I am at my parents. They live a long way from me so when I go see them we are doing things all the time which makes my time very limited. As I said, I skimmed the thread and made a decision to vote based partly on my own gut and cemented by considering how someone else voted. My decision, my accountability. I could have not voted as 4 other people did because I usually don't vote just on my gut and how someone else voted. Another option as I think back on it would have been to vote for myself. All of this is just to say I was more wobbly about this vote than others I have made.

I understand why there are people who want to look at me and I welcome that, though looking at the voters for Spiral does not make sense to me unless you know for sure that Spiral is good.

Fair point, but in order for Spiral to be a Polaris team mate, Spiral would have had to make the decision to vote for a team mate yesterday and keep the vote there. That makes no sense when Spiral is the other lynch candidate.

[Rachel Green]

Oh I think I see what you are saying havok - is it that you're saying Spiral could have voted for a third party instead of a teammate? Or at least moved his vote when Polaris started taking votes? That's a good point. The only reason I can think of that he wouldn't do that is if Spiral's role was more important than Polaris's role and they didn't want to risk that in a tie, but I understand the probability of that is low. My gut was probably just wrong on this lynch. (If I misunderstood you're point pleas correct me.)

[Rachel Green]

ugh my typos are horrible, hope you can still understand.

[Operator]

The enlarged part was literally the reason we lynched Marrow.
What you're saying here is that you've voted against all the civvie lynches and baddie lynches. You haven't done much to actually contribute to the lynches. Your voting record is clean because you know how it will turn out. You have avoided all responsibility this game.

And FYI, maybe I felt okay publishing a list because Magneto was likely blocked last night, and it's friggin day time and Magneto can't changed his targets based on what I say for now.

I'm sorry, "we" lynched Marrow.

Are you even reading the thread? "We" did not lynch Marrow. HAWKEYE lynched Marrow, as my previous post said. With a little help from Banshee. There was no case made on Marrow or reason to vote her except that Hawkeye wanted to do it and had great instincts. So don't try to claim credit for that or make me look bad because I didn't vote Marrow; no one except the two I mentioned did, and you sure as hell didn't.

The rest of your post directed at me is just wild speculation. I do not know how lynches will turn out. If I did, I would've probably tried to vote a baddie who seemed certain to die at some point, no?

Take some responsibility!

Wanna know what's surprising?
Everyone who has been antagonizing me all game that we've lynched?
Turned up bad so far. Hawkeye. Polaris.
And you want Longshot to take responsibility? The post I'm going to respond below is pretty much the biggest shirk of responsibility I've seen. You literally just go, "Well that was HAWKEYE!" What the fuck, man?

So let's play with facts again. Hawkeye wasn't bad, he was the Sentinels. It's different because he didn't have teammates. I think you're counting him as bad when it suits you and indy when it suits you. He was indy. Period.

And it's hunky-dory that people you don't like have turned up non-civ-aligned. I'm sure you're real proud, and it makes it easy when everything is so balck-and-white. But that doesn't mean everyone you dislike is evil, and you're wrong in this case.

And yes! I say it was Hawkeye in two lynches because IT WAS FRIGGING HAWKEYE. Look at the polls! He got one helpful vote from Banshee on the Marrow lynch, and one each from you and Polaris (who happened to be bad, by the way) when he attempted to lynch White Queen. But in both cases, the person he voted did not have nearly enough votes to be lynched by me, you, or anyone else but Hawkeye. So he should get all the credit for his good work there, and you should stop acting like you did shit those days.

So I'm not shirking any responsibility on those votes. They just don't give useful information about my alignment because we don't know anything about the people I voted yet.

[Operator]

I'm also interested in revisiting my suspicion of Rasputin today.

"Revisiting"? Your prior suspicion of me was based on me suspecting you because we disagreed on something we both currently agree upon. You can have a new (wrong) suspicion of me, but revisiting the old one seems kinda pointless.

Revisting, yes. I've been suspicious of you for most of the game now, but I had let up on it after realizing that my primary theory of the game was completely wrong. My suspicion of you was not just a No U as you say here. Your lynch record was a big part of it, too. I outlined that several days ago in a post. Your lynch record continues to look strange to me, so I am revisiting it.

Don't forget to include Rasputin into that group of Spiral voters. He voted for Spiral, too, but he "forgot" to vote in the poll.

I do think for today's purposes of suspicion, we should count my vote as having gone to Spiral. It's who I intended to vote for, so that's fair. But what you're implying with those quotation marks doesn't make even the vaguest sort of sense.

No matter what my role or alignment, pretending to forget could ONLY have made me look bad. In fact, if I were bad and had voted, I'd have saved a teammate, so it would greatly behooved me to not do that.

So yes, as outlandish as it may sound, I actually forgot.

Again, if anyone wants to suspect me, I'm fine with it. I'm happy to argue about it, and I think my thread behavior and factual evidence from the game refute it. But if you're going to suspect me, at least do me the courtesy of having a good, real, not-made-up reason for doing so.

Here you are trying to dismiss legitimate suspicion as something that's just bogus or made up. Yes, maybe you did just legitmately forgot to vote in the poll. That's fair. But you are really playing up your contributions to the game. Your "thread behavior and factual evidence" doesn't point to you being a being a solid civvie....not at all. The fact that you would try to convince anyone of that is "pingy" as the kids say.

You never once brought up my voting record in your prior suspicion (which, as you admitted yourself, was based primarily on an understanding of the game that doesn't seem possible at this stage). I'm happy to talk it over, but claiming it was "a big part" of why you were after me earlier is just not true. Quote or gtfo.

Maybe I forgot? You're still only willing to give me a maybe, when literally nothing good could have happened to me because of forgetting, no matter my alignment? Come on, man. I'm gonna tell you what I just told Spiral: watch for blinders. And yes, that wild speculation about how I "forgot" instead of forgetting is. Bogus. And. Made. Up.

I dispute the idea that I've been playing up my contributions. I acknowledged that I haven't been much help on any lynch, vote-wise not even the ones that turned out well. I don't really even know what's there to play up.

And we can debate that thread behavior and factual evidence points to me being a civvie. In fact, I would love to do so. I don't understand why that's weird; convincing people not to kill you is as much a part of mafia as finding the baddies. If I'm not allowed to try to convince people I'm good without looking pingy, I'm kinda screwed.

The thing that gives me pause on Mikhail is that he was targeted for a NK by the baddies. :/

He was? When? I thought he was targeted by The Sentinels or Apocalypse? I don't remember him being targeted by the Brotherhood.

Yep! Again, let's play with facts. I have survived night kills from Apocalypse and the Sentinels, not the Brotherhood. The idea that I'm civ has nothing to do with them targeting me, just the pure fact of my survival.

Can I ask why if they had targeted me that would only give you pause, and not utterly convince you that I was not one of them? Please make sure you don't have your blinders on, because from here it looks a heck of a lot like you do.

[Nicol Bolas]

yah im willin 2 admit im probs wrong about spiral bein bad. i dont think the votes woulda gone down the way it did if him and polaris were team m8s.

and banshees right bout the votes movin during the marrow lynch. longshot voted 4 marrow at the start and said he might change it, then viz called the marrow vote "easy" so longshot switched his vote 2 me. longshot also subtly tried to get banshee to switch his vote too. then there is of course the vote 4 spiral yesterday that could have saved toad. if im goin just by voting record id say longshot fits the brotherhood mold perfectly. longshot blames his vote on not readin closely enuf....... my question for longshot is what would u have done differently with ur vote if u had read the thread better? that excuse dont make sense2me.

tryin to decide whether mikhails missed vote for spiral makes him more or less likely 2 b bad......... raspys a crafty guy im not sure what his angle is.

but i got another idea for todays vote. see the way i read it last night was M-Day meanin a bunch a mutants lost their powers which means we could potentially b dealin w/ a depowered apocalypse today. i was wonderin what yall thought about that. personally i got 2 suspects for apocalypse, white queen and sebastian shaw. my vote today will likely go to one of em cuz i think its important to try and get apocalypse out while we can. i fear the window of opportunity might b closin on that one after today. leanin queenie over shaw what does every1 else think

[Operator]

Let's make sure we're playing with facts, here. I have not "stood in the way" of any lynch, and "quite a few" is so much exaggeration it's laughable.

Day 10: We got the baddie on this one, so did I help? Of course not. But did I "stand in the way"? No.

Day 9 we got Hawkeye. Not sure if you wanna say I'm on his team, given that he's an indie and doesn't have teammates at all. My vote didn't matter because it was clear from the beginning of the day that he was getting almost all the votes. And I did repeatedly acknowledge that the case on him was rock-solid, I just wanted to hear from him first.

Day 8, Hawkeye single-handedly lynched Marrow. Did I help? No. Did you? No. Did anyone? NO.

Day 7 Shaw survived. Not much to say there.

Day 6, Hawkeye tried to lynch White Queen and failed. Again, all him for real.

Both Day 5s and Days 1, 2, and 3, I believe we lynched civs. A number of whom I was decidedly against lynching, by the way.

And Day 4 we got Exodus. Another case like Hawkeye where my vote didn't matter because it was clear where the lynch was going. I agreed (and have been saying for AGES) that Exodus probably was actually bad, and refused to vote him because of my personal beliefs about how mafia should be played. If that's "standing in the way", fine, you got me on one.

I get that you don't like me suspecting you, or voting you two days in a row. But if you want to NO U me, at least read my voting history. And don't lie to make a sensationalistic case on me based on exaggerations.

This post makes me want to go back and reread those lynches, on all the other days in this list, you go into detail about why what transpired does not apply to you. Then for those days highlighted, you were like, "And on these days we lynched civvies, and I was dead set against lynching....a number of them". Um, what? You spelled out each days lynch, rather succinctly, then you lump all those lynches together like that?

It makes me feel like the next line should be, "Yeah, that's the ticket ".

Please do reread, that'd be cool. But the reason I lumped all those together wasn't anything nefarious. It was that this post was a response to the accusation that I have "stood in the way of quite a few useful lynches", not a review of my entire voting history. The days we lynched civs were clearly not useful, so I ignored them for that purpose.

[Operator]

yah im willin 2 admit im probs wrong about spiral bein bad. i dont think the votes woulda gone down the way it did if him and polaris were team m8s.

and banshees right bout the votes movin during the marrow lynch. longshot voted 4 marrow at the start and said he might change it, then viz called the marrow vote "easy" so longshot switched his vote 2 me. longshot also subtly tried to get banshee to switch his vote too. then there is of course the vote 4 spiral yesterday that could have saved toad. if im goin just by voting record id say longshot fits the brotherhood mold perfectly. longshot blames his vote on not readin closely enuf....... my question for longshot is what would u have done differently with ur vote if u had read the thread better? that excuse dont make sense2me.

tryin to decide whether mikhails missed vote for spiral makes him more or less likely 2 b bad......... raspys a crafty guy im not sure what his angle is.

but i got another idea for todays vote. see the way i read it last night was M-Day meanin a bunch a mutants lost their powers which means we could potentially b dealin w/ a depowered apocalypse today. i was wonderin what yall thought about that. personally i got 2 suspects for apocalypse, white queen and sebastian shaw. my vote today will likely go to one of em cuz i think its important to try and get apocalypse out while we can. i fear the window of opportunity might b closin on that one after today. leanin queenie over shaw what does every1 else think

This is an interesting post. My reading of Apolcalypse's "Can't be lynched or nightkilled" thing is that it wouldn't count as a power for removal and such, but I dunno. Maybe the host can clarify?

I think one of White Queen and Shaw must be Apocalypse. I'm leaning WQ since she survived an NK as well. But I still don't know if Apocalypse is lynchable today, and I think there must be some way to defeat Apocalypse without killing them. I'd be inclined to not try that today, because I don't want to risk wasting a lynch when Magneto's not in play.

Thanks for the voting review on Longshot. I'm not sure if it makes me think she's more or less bad. Voting Marrow early seems risky for a baddie, but the vote switch and asking others to switch don't. And clearly this past vote doesn't look great.

[Rachel Green]

yah im willin 2 admit im probs wrong about spiral bein bad. i dont think the votes woulda gone down the way it did if him and polaris were team m8s.

and banshees right bout the votes movin during the marrow lynch. longshot voted 4 marrow at the start and said he might change it, then viz called the marrow vote "easy" so longshot switched his vote 2 me. longshot also subtly tried to get banshee to switch his vote too. then there is of course the vote 4 spiral yesterday that could have saved toad. if im goin just by voting record id say longshot fits the brotherhood mold perfectly. longshot blames his vote on not readin closely enuf....... my question for longshot is what would u have done differently with ur vote if u had read the thread better? that excuse dont make sense2me.

tryin to decide whether mikhails missed vote for spiral makes him more or less likely 2 b bad......... raspys a crafty guy im not sure what his angle is.

but i got another idea for todays vote. see the way i read it last night was M-Day meanin a bunch a mutants lost their powers which means we could potentially b dealin w/ a depowered apocalypse today. i was wonderin what yall thought about that. personally i got 2 suspects for apocalypse, white queen and sebastian shaw. my vote today will likely go to one of em cuz i think its important to try and get apocalypse out while we can. i fear the window of opportunity might b closin on that one after today. leanin queenie over shaw what does every1 else think

I have never tried subtly to get Banshee or anyone else to vote a certain way so would you pull the quote where you think I did? What I'm saying about the thread is I could not read it all day Saturday, Sunday, and Monday because I was without internet service. I don't know what happened on those days but I did not feel comfortable about my vote. I am not the brotherhood regardless of what you think my votes show. If I have time later I will go vote by vote and tell you what I can. Civs don't have knowledge on who is bad and who is good so voting for the right person is not easy.

[Operator]

Fair point, but in order for Spiral to be a Polaris team mate, Spiral would have had to make the decision to vote for a team mate yesterday and keep the vote there. That makes no sense when Spiral is the other lynch candidate.

It kind of does, though. Like Longshot said, Polaris was Toad, and the other 3 possibly living baddie roles are Magneto, Pyro, and Juggernaut. It's possible Spiral or their team to decide Toad was less valuable than whichever of those Spiral was, and when no one else is even on the chopping block for lynch. I'm not saying it's the most likely explanation, (I actually find it somewhat unlikely) but it's definitely possible.

I did not feel comfortable about my vote.

What made you uncomfortable about it, and if you were uncomfortable, why vote as you did?

[Gunther]

I'm also interested in revisiting my suspicion of Rasputin today.

"Revisiting"? Your prior suspicion of me was based on me suspecting you because we disagreed on something we both currently agree upon. You can have a new (wrong) suspicion of me, but revisiting the old one seems kinda pointless.

Revisting, yes. I've been suspicious of you for most of the game now, but I had let up on it after realizing that my primary theory of the game was completely wrong. My suspicion of you was not just a No U as you say here. Your lynch record was a big part of it, too. I outlined that several days ago in a post. Your lynch record continues to look strange to me, so I am revisiting it.

Don't forget to include Rasputin into that group of Spiral voters. He voted for Spiral, too, but he "forgot" to vote in the poll.

I do think for today's purposes of suspicion, we should count my vote as having gone to Spiral. It's who I intended to vote for, so that's fair. But what you're implying with those quotation marks doesn't make even the vaguest sort of sense.

No matter what my role or alignment, pretending to forget could ONLY have made me look bad. In fact, if I were bad and had voted, I'd have saved a teammate, so it would greatly behooved me to not do that.

So yes, as outlandish as it may sound, I actually forgot.

Again, if anyone wants to suspect me, I'm fine with it. I'm happy to argue about it, and I think my thread behavior and factual evidence from the game refute it. But if you're going to suspect me, at least do me the courtesy of having a good, real, not-made-up reason for doing so.

Here you are trying to dismiss legitimate suspicion as something that's just bogus or made up. Yes, maybe you did just legitmately forgot to vote in the poll. That's fair. But you are really playing up your contributions to the game. Your "thread behavior and factual evidence" doesn't point to you being a being a solid civvie....not at all. The fact that you would try to convince anyone of that is "pingy" as the kids say.

You never once brought up my voting record in your prior suspicion (which, as you admitted yourself, was based primarily on an understanding of the game that doesn't seem possible at this stage). I'm happy to talk it over, but claiming it was "a big part" of why you were after me earlier is just not true. Quote or gtfo.

Maybe I forgot? You're still only willing to give me a maybe, when literally nothing good could have happened to me because of forgetting, no matter my alignment? Come on, man. I'm gonna tell you what I just told Spiral: watch for blinders. And yes, that wild speculation about how I "forgot" instead of forgetting is. Bogus. And. Made. Up.

I dispute the idea that I've been playing up my contributions. I acknowledged that I haven't been much help on any lynch, vote-wise not even the ones that turned out well. I don't really even know what's there to play up.

And we can debate that thread behavior and factual evidence points to me being a civvie. In fact, I would love to do so. I don't understand why that's weird; convincing people not to kill you is as much a part of mafia as finding the baddies. If I'm not allowed to try to convince people I'm good without looking pingy, I'm kinda screwed.

The thing that gives me pause on Mikhail is that he was targeted for a NK by the baddies. :/

He was? When? I thought he was targeted by The Sentinels or Apocalypse? I don't remember him being targeted by the Brotherhood.

Yep! Again, let's play with facts. I have survived night kills from Apocalypse and the Sentinels, not the Brotherhood. The idea that I'm civ has nothing to do with them targeting me, just the pure fact of my survival.

Can I ask why if they had targeted me that would only give you pause, and not utterly convince you that I was not one of them? Please make sure you don't have your blinders on, because from here it looks a heck of a lot like you do.

So, you surviving a NK period makes you not Brotherhood? Please stop with this nonsense. It's just a ridiculous defense, Rasputin. There have been several instances of people surviving NKs...How many civvies can survive a NK? Blocks, Protections, possible prizes (including power upgrades) would all answer why brotherhood could survive a NK. Why can't you see that?

As for your snarky "quote or GTFO" remark......

It's interesting looking back at Mikhail Rasputin's voting history. He has quite an impressive history of not avoiding voting for lynched civvies.


Day 1: MR replaced in on Night 1, so he wasn't around for the first lynch

Day 2: Did not vote. T-Bird (Forge) was lynched.

Day 3: Voted for Polaris. Quicksilver(Psylocke) was lynched. MR came in after the fact questioning the votes on T-Bird while calling QS suspicious...also called out Sunfire. He made posts saying that he reread Quicksilver and Sunfire. His conclusion on Sunfire was that he was less suspicious of him, but that he would be keeping an eye on him. His post on Quicksilver concluded that he was still suspicious. After those two posts, he said he would be deciding between Spiral and Quicksilver. He uses the rest of Day 3 to ease away from his Quicksilver suspicion and eventually landed on Polaris....convenient.

Day 4: Voted for Sebastian Shaw. Exodus (Gambit or Mystique) was lynched.

Day 5.1: Voted for Domino (Gambit or Mystique) and Domino was lynched.

Day 5.2: voted for me (Havok) while Sunfire got lynched.

So, looking at his votes, his hands are quite clean. Whether he has ever voted for a lynched civvie would depend on your outlook on which was the real Gambit. I find it interesting that he avoided voting for Exodus, but he did vote for Domino. But now of course he is of the belief that Domino was the real Gambit and Exodus was really Mystique.

I will be interested to see how Mikhail Rasputin will avoid voting out a civvie today.

I have more to add on this, but I have to leave for a few hours to run some errands. Hopefully, I will be back in plenty of time to catch up and add to the discussion that's going on at the time. I really hope that my fellow X-Men don't let MR lead them down the wrong path today.

[Jack Shephard]

Wanna know what's surprising?
Everyone who has been antagonizing me all game that we've lynched?
Turned up bad so far. Hawkeye. Polaris.
And you want Longshot to take responsibility? The post I'm going to respond below is pretty much the biggest shirk of responsibility I've seen. You literally just go, "Well that was HAWKEYE!" What the fuck, man?

I don't play mafia on a personal level, hence I also don't antagonize people.

My death was stupid, but it happens. Carry on.

[Operator]

There we go. All I wanted was a quote. I'll say now what I said then; I voted Domino, who I'm pretty sure was civvie, and I was probably one of the major reasons QS was lynched, despite deciding not to vote for her. So not squeaky-clean. And your post reminds me, I voted Polaris way before it was cool.

As for the NK thing: I realize it's not a discussion-ender or absolutely ironclad, but I do think you should consider it. You really think it's more likely that baddie teammates blocked people trying to kill me twice in 3 nights than that my role saved me? You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a reach and I think you're making it because you and I have an antagonistic history over the course of this game.

Linki:

[Gunther]

You voted for Polaris earlier in the game. Ok. But it's not like you voted for Polaris when there was any real threat of Polaris being lynched. And for your vote of Domino...ok, so you voted for one possible civvie that was lynched. My point still stands. One lynch out of eleven.

On your 2nd comment, I have considered it, but after Polaris flipping Toad it has caused me to revisit all of my instincts from this game because early in the game I had the feeling that Polaris was bad. Realizng that I was wrong about Exodus/Domino caused me to doubt my instincts. Now we are at a critical juncture in the game and I feel like using instincts in a smart way to go.

I'm not calling for your lynch. Not yet, anyway. I just can't put my long lasting suspicion of you to bed yet. Surely, you can understand that.

[Young Lady]

So uhm... when I am being rezzed?

[Rachel Green]

Fair point, but in order for Spiral to be a Polaris team mate, Spiral would have had to make the decision to vote for a team mate yesterday and keep the vote there. That makes no sense when Spiral is the other lynch candidate.

It kind of does, though. Like Longshot said, Polaris was Toad, and the other 3 possibly living baddie roles are Magneto, Pyro, and Juggernaut. It's possible Spiral or their team to decide Toad was less valuable than whichever of those Spiral was, and when no one else is even on the chopping block for lynch. I'm not saying it's the most likely explanation, (I actually find it somewhat unlikely) but it's definitely possible.

I did not feel comfortable about my vote.

What made you uncomfortable about it, and if you were uncomfortable, why vote as you did?

I was uncomfortable because I hadn't thoroughly read the prior days. I voted because I grew up in the mafia world that was never miss a vote and don't vote for yourself so I was even more hesitant about that. In retrospect, it would have been more telling of my situation if I had voted myself or not voted. It was a bad decision I think all the way around.

[Jack Shephard]

So uhm... when I am being rezzed?

You and me both.

[Young Lady]

So uhm... when I am being rezzed?

You and me both.

Wanna go grab a bite to eat?

[Nicol Bolas]

mikhail i asked the host last nite cuz i was confused and he told me that if u lose your powers for m-day then u lose everything your not a mutant anymore. wolverine loses his healin factor omega red loses his faremones apocalypse loses his protection. no powers no role. its apocalypse now baby!!!

[Nicol Bolas]

ill get some food wit u guys whatre we thinkin here chimichangas????

[Young Lady]

I think we should let the lady decide.

I just noticed my crap word order. I should not post after training.

[Nicol Bolas]

o shit hawkeye were u tryin 2 setup a zombie d8 with polaris???? am i the third wheel? my bad bro my bad

[Operator]

I did not feel comfortable about my vote.

What made you uncomfortable about it, and if you were uncomfortable, why vote as you did?

I was uncomfortable because I hadn't thoroughly read the prior days. I voted because I grew up in the mafia world that was never miss a vote and don't vote for yourself so I was even more hesitant about that. In retrospect, it would have been more telling of my situation if I had voted myself or not voted. It was a bad decision I think all the way around.

Ok, thanks for the response.

You voted for Polaris earlier in the game. Ok. But it's not like you voted for Polaris when there was any real threat of Polaris being lynched. And for your vote of Domino...ok, so you voted for one possible civvie that was lynched. My point still stands. One lynch out of eleven.

On your 2nd comment, I have considered it, but after Polaris flipping Toad it has caused me to revisit all of my instincts from this game because early in the game I had the feeling that Polaris was bad. Realizng that I was wrong about Exodus/Domino caused me to doubt my instincts. Now we are at a critical juncture in the game and I feel like using instincts in a smart way to go.

I'm not calling for your lynch. Not yet, anyway. I just can't put my long lasting suspicion of you to bed yet. Surely, you can understand that.

Yeah, I get it. I'm having trouble resting mine of you too, on occasion.

I had to say something, though. The day opens and 4 people jump all over me, and it looks like I'm headed for a lynch. So I felt it necessary to respond forcefully to the points made. Again, I'm all for discussion, and if we disagree at the end of the day despite having the same evidence, there's not much I can do, but I want to make sure things are presented in a way that's fair to me.

mikhail i asked the host last nite cuz i was confused and he told me that if u lose your powers for m-day then u lose everything your not a mutant anymore. wolverine loses his healin factor omega red loses his faremones apocalypse loses his protection. no powers no role. its apocalypse now baby!!!

Is this for real?? Cuz if so I'm voting White Queen early and often. Could you confirm, Epi?

[Young Lady]

o shit hawkeye were u tryin 2 setup a zombie d8 with polaris???? am i the third wheel? my bad bro my bad

I could use a wingman though.

[Operator]

o shit hawkeye were u tryin 2 setup a zombie d8 with polaris???? am i the third wheel? my bad bro my bad

I could use a wingman though.

Then you should ask Banshee! Get it? Get it?

[Young Lady]

o shit hawkeye were u tryin 2 setup a zombie d8 with polaris???? am i the third wheel? my bad bro my bad

I could use a wingman though.

Then you should ask Banshee! Get it? Get it?

[Epignosis]

As a point of clarification, prizes, items, and win conditions are not affected. Only mutant abilities will be revoked.

[Operator]

As a point of clarification, prizes, items, and win conditions are not affected. Only mutant abilities will be revoked.

But all powers, including immunity from lynches and NKs, are?

[Epignosis]

As a point of clarification, prizes, items, and win conditions are not affected. Only mutant abilities will be revoked.

But all powers, including immunity from lynches and NKs, are?

If the immunity is directly connected to a win condition, then it is unaffected.

[Operator]

Damn crypticness.

That to me sounds like it's implying Apoclaypse's not-dying thing is win-condition related. So I won't vote White Queen unless someone convinces me I'm wrong about that.

[Rachel Green]

Damn crypticness.

That to me sounds like it's implying Apoclaypse's not-dying thing is win-condition related. So I won't vote White Queen unless someone convinces me I'm wrong about that.

Yes, I think he is definitely implying that. I don't plan to vote White Queen either based on this info.

[Gunther]

I did not feel comfortable about my vote.

What made you uncomfortable about it, and if you were uncomfortable, why vote as you did?

I was uncomfortable because I hadn't thoroughly read the prior days. I voted because I grew up in the mafia world that was never miss a vote and don't vote for yourself so I was even more hesitant about that. In retrospect, it would have been more telling of my situation if I had voted myself or not voted. It was a bad decision I think all the way around.

Ok, thanks for the response.

You voted for Polaris earlier in the game. Ok. But it's not like you voted for Polaris when there was any real threat of Polaris being lynched. And for your vote of Domino...ok, so you voted for one possible civvie that was lynched. My point still stands. One lynch out of eleven.

On your 2nd comment, I have considered it, but after Polaris flipping Toad it has caused me to revisit all of my instincts from this game because early in the game I had the feeling that Polaris was bad. Realizng that I was wrong about Exodus/Domino caused me to doubt my instincts. Now we are at a critical juncture in the game and I feel like using instincts in a smart way to go.

I'm not calling for your lynch. Not yet, anyway. I just can't put my long lasting suspicion of you to bed yet. Surely, you can understand that.

Yeah, I get it. I'm having trouble resting mine of you too, on occasion.

I had to say something, though. The day opens and 4 people jump all over me, and it looks like I'm headed for a lynch. So I felt it necessary to respond forcefully to the points made. Again, I'm all for discussion, and if we disagree at the end of the day despite having the same evidence, there's not much I can do, but I want to make sure things are presented in a way that's fair to me.

mikhail i asked the host last nite cuz i was confused and he told me that if u lose your powers for m-day then u lose everything your not a mutant anymore. wolverine loses his healin factor omega red loses his faremones apocalypse loses his protection. no powers no role. its apocalypse now baby!!!

Is this for real?? Cuz if so I'm voting White Queen early and often. Could you confirm, Epi?

I'm more suspicious of Bullzeye at this point in time. What are your thoughts on him?

[Jack Shephard]

So uhm... when I am being rezzed?

You and me both.

Wanna go grab a bite to eat?

I'd love to! How about some Del Taco? And no I'm not a cheap date, I can put those tacos away. And they cater to those on the zombie diet too!

[2 Stupid Dogs]

Are you even reading the thread?

No.

Fair point, but in order for Spiral to be a Polaris team mate, Spiral would have had to make the decision to vote for a team mate yesterday and keep the vote there. That makes no sense when Spiral is the other lynch candidate.

It kind of does, though. Like Longshot said, Polaris was Toad, and the other 3 possibly living baddie roles are Magneto, Pyro, and Juggernaut. It's possible Spiral or their team to decide Toad was less valuable than whichever of those Spiral was, and when no one else is even on the chopping block for lynch. I'm not saying it's the most likely explanation, (I actually find it somewhat unlikely) but it's definitely possible.

I did not feel comfortable about my vote.

What made you uncomfortable about it, and if you were uncomfortable, why vote as you did?

Wanna know what's surprising?
Everyone who has been antagonizing me all game that we've lynched?
Turned up bad so far. Hawkeye. Polaris.
And you want Longshot to take responsibility? The post I'm going to respond below is pretty much the biggest shirk of responsibility I've seen. You literally just go, "Well that was HAWKEYE!" What the fuck, man?

I don't play mafia on a personal level, hence I also don't antagonize people.

My death was stupid, but it happens. Carry on.

I don't know why everyone thinks I mean things personally. I don't. I mean you tried to get me lynched.
People have continuously brought my name up all game. I'm not bad. I think the baddies have thought I was an easy lynch based on my early game play.

[Ned Flanders]

I don't think you are being personal. They are implying the use of a word like "antagonize" is personal, but I have not read it that way. It is just semantics, I think. Aggression, antagonize, attack; different ways to say the same thing.

And I just read through the hosts posts with Rasputin in them, and I do not see where the bad team targeted him. There was this from Night 6:

Mikhail Rasputin was attempting to study the topography of The Savage Land when a missile struck the top of a rocky formation. The resultant landslide buried him. When he dug his way out, he found a microchip. “This was a gift from a sentinel,” he said.

And this from Night 4:

The victory procession celebrating the new leader of the Morlocks coursed through the tunnels, bringing word to all members who could not attend the duel.

But Mikhail Rasputin stopped. He heard whispers. They grew louder and he listened carefully to hear what they were saying.

A nearby pipe burst and water knocked him against one of the tunnel walls. The brickwork above fell upon him like an avalanche, and soon, he was buried.

The others rushed back to see what had happened.

“The masonry here is not sound,” Mikhail Rasputin informed them.

I am not seeing how these are definite bad team attempts. Which is not to say I am planning a Mikhail vote. I still think Shaw is bad news as well.

[Gunther]

Rasputin is saying that the very fact that he survived a NK at all should poitn to him being civvie...not that he was targeted by a Brotherhood member.

[Ned Flanders]

Someone up there ^^ said he was specifically targeted by the bad team. But in any case 4 (or is it 5?) different people have survived NKs. They cannot ALL be the civ that survives NKs or Apocalypse. So the fact that there are only 2 roles with NK saves written in and more than 2 people have survived NKs pretty much voids that as a defense in my opinion.

[Gunther]

Rasputin's defense of that argument is that he's survived 2 NKs and that they couldn't both be from outside forces.

[Ned Flanders]

The thing that gives me pause on Mikhail is that he was targeted for a NK by the baddies. :/

Here it is. And I see Rasputin replied as well. I tend to skim over ginormous multi quotey posts. I plan to do some rereading tonight, though.

Linki; Are you Rasputins attorney? I saw that. But it is only a possibility. One of many.

[Gunther]

that basically amounts to him role hinting from what I can gather.

[Gunther]

The thing that gives me pause on Mikhail is that he was targeted for a NK by the baddies. :/

Here it is. And I see Rasputin replied as well. I tend to skim over ginormous multi quotey posts. I plan to do some rereading tonight, though.

Linki; Are you Rasputins attorney? I saw that. But it is only a possibility. One of many.

That's funny.

[Ned Flanders]

that basically amounts to him role hinting from what I can gather.

Indeed. But that does not make it true. As I said, I am not likely to vote for him in any case. I am looking at Shaw & Deadpool.

The thing that gives me pause on Mikhail is that he was targeted for a NK by the baddies. :/

Here it is. And I see Rasputin replied as well. I tend to skim over ginormous multi quotey posts. I plan to do some rereading tonight, though.

Linki; Are you Rasputins attorney? I saw that. But it is only a possibility. One of many.

That's funny.